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Honoring Those Who Toil
What does Labor Day mean anymore other than another day off, another
store sale and, in some cities, parades ever smaller and more devoid of
passion for elevating the well-being of working people?
Philosopher/mechanic Matthew B. Crawford, in his recent, embracing book, Shop Craft as Soulcraft has a thoughtful consideration. He deflates the high-prestige workplace and makes the case for millions of Americans who still make and fix things with their hands.
"I want to suggest we can take a broader view of what a good job might consist of, and therefore what kind of education is important. We seem to have developed an educational monoculture, tied to a vision of what kind of work is valuable and important - everyone gets herded into a certain track where they end up working in an office, regardless of their natural bents.But some people, including some who are very smart, would rather be learning to build things or fix things. Why not honor that? I think one reason we don't is that we've had this fantasy that we're going to somehow take leave of material reality and glide around in a pure information economy."
Dr. Crawford has a PhD in political philosophy and is a mechanic who runs Shockoe Moto, an independent motorcycle repair shop in Richmond, Virginia. This gives him a deep sense of skill and broader perspective with which to evaluate these ways of satisfying one's value of locally-rooted work. He contrasts these traits with the deadening assembly line and computer focused office work, both of which can be outsourced on the whims of a boss.
The Winsted, Connecticut Deck's Fix-It Shop, operated joyously by an aunt and her nephew, until they retired last year, would have been exhibit A for Dr. Crawford. They fixed hundreds of different products brought to them by the townspeople. Their small shop was filled horizontally and vertically with items donated, about to be fixed or were unfixable by the manufacturers' design. They could have charged a museum entrance fee for browsing if their shop had more room. Oh, what pride they regularly took in their work.
Electricians, plumbers, carpenters, painters, tailors, car and bike repairers, restorers of stoves, refrigerators, air conditioners, furnaces, locks, windows, sidewalks and streets enjoy a special kind of personal job gratification that is alien to the pre-designed, robotic labors of their friends who come home every day with clean clothes.
I've often wondered why the knowledge of tradespeople about the best, middling and worst brands of equipment, products and materials they work with or have to install (such as furnaces) isn't collected by some magazine or consumer group. After all Angie's List is surveying what their customers around the country think about the quality of the service.
Along with the repairers, we should recognize the inspectors-millions of them working for government agencies and companies to assure that health and safety laws are observed and quality controls are maintained. They are the meat and poultry inspectors, OSHA and Customs inspectors, sanitation inspectors of food stores and restaurants, motor vehicle inspectors, nuclear, chemical and aircraft inspectors, inspectors of laboratories, hospitals, clinics, building code inspectors and the insurance inspectors assigned to loss prevention duties.
The more conscientious of these inspectors are vulnerable to being over-ridden by their less committed superiors (such as meat inspectors for the U.S. Department of Agriculture) or harassed (inspectors for the U.S. Forest Service on corporately exploited federal timber land.) Sometimes inspectors so commit their conscience to their work that they become whistle-blowers about safety hazards or hanky panky, which too often invites career-ending retaliation.
How little attention we devote to those inspectors who are sentinels for the well-being of the American people. As a result, the courageous are not honored-if only to motivate the young to choose these careers. Moreover, a culture of corruption, that can erode their alertness or burdens them with weak standards to enforce, escapes exposure.
Then there are the near invisibles-the cleaners who do their thankless but essential jobs in hotels, airports, bus and train stations, office buildings, factories, schools, libraries, museums, streets, restaurants and homes.
Strange how we don't react to cleaners-rarely thanking them or greeting them with salutations. Notice how airline passengers rush past them on the jetway while they wait to clean up the messes under severe time pressure. People who babble incessantly at airports or bus and train stations, while waiting for their departure, ignore the sweepers and dusters, automatically averting their eyes, and almost never acknowledging their work.
Taxi drivers are often tipped and thanked. How many hotel maids, who clean twelve or more soiled rooms and toilets a day, receive any thanks or tips by the guests? Cleaners are among the lowest paid workers, often handle not the safest of chemicals, and receive very little respect or recognition. Their lowly status has to affect their morale and maybe their performance.
Yet what would we do if these workers went on a general strike from the nursing homes to the garbage trucks? We'd feel it a lot more than if the overpaid Wall Street traders went on strike.
One day I was at BWI airport and went to the crowded men's room. As I entered, the elderly cleaning man erupted in frustration. "I'm sick of this job," he shouted to no one in particular. "Hour after hour I clean up, come back, see the crap, clean up some more. It never ends," he wailed. The men who were wiping, flushing, washing, drying and zipping were stunned and silently shuffled out, as if he wasn't there. I thanked him for his work and candor, calmed him down and gave him a gratuity. The others looked at me blankly as if I was dealing with a ghost they never see as a human being.
Cultures can be astonishing. The hands-on workers who harvest our food, clean up after us, repair our property, look out after our health and safety conditions and serve as nannies to our children receive few honors, status or anywhere near the compensation of those who gamble with our money, entertain us or drive us into wars they don't fight themselves.
Shouldn't Labor Day be a time to gather and contemplate such inverted values and celebrate those who toil without proper recognition?
Comments
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191 Comments so far
Show AllRalph Nader is a true American patriot.
Sure hope he runs in 2012. We need him more than ever.
Ditto !
I am a retired machinist and I know what working with your hands mean. We got the lowest pay of the trades but I loved it when someone would bring in a broken piece of old machinery that was so old you couldn't buy parts and we would make it whole again, sometimes better then new.
Kind of like the feeling medical folks get when somebody comes in busted or rusted and they can "fix" 'em (never, unfortunately, better than new, but at least better ...)
Speaking of working with one's hands, to fix something - gotta go do that to my shed roof right now ....
What would it be like if there was a general strike of cleaning staff?
absolutely beautiful, the dawn of a new day!
Nader always gets it right!
I don't think the time is too far off when those "fixers" will be back in high demand because few will have the revenue stream to buy new items.
Those who were schooled in "the trades" will do better than most as the recession keeps on keeping on, by whatever the terminology that defines it.
Yes, thats the way it worked with me. I worked through many recessions because of that reason, can't afford new, just get it fixed instead.
Hi SR, you see that moon? How far away is the milky way? (a ripped off line from My Cherie Amour) Ya like this acronym for Hell? High Energy Low Light.....Nice to see your ever blossoming persona ici. I threw my computer over my balcony railing......more guitar, offing the epiphone, got a strat.... not growing, just guarding, doing scissor work and worshipping life. Was asked to join the Methodist Church choir....if they only knew....twould be an invite they'd fast withrdrew..
I don' wanna be buried
In no pet cematary
Next ta all them rottin'
Cats n dogs,
No....now you do four lines
Lyrics SR, Lyrics
Ciao CD, 4 now
Christ was I wrong about OBombUh!
Joe from The Necropolis.
And your point is what? That you'll be remembered? I don't wanna be hard here and I appreciate your efforts but you're not gonna get a blessing from a celebrity so let me give you a blessing from God.
A beautiful blessing...FJ, truly...I was asked to join the choir a couple Sundays ago my a Methodist church I attend when not.......trying to be remembered, honestly I don't try...but people know me, just poooooor humble people like me though. I don know my letters, am afraid of all things and ego's are manifest self desecration
Fuck that. But respect my self?
One boy in Korea. One in the Navy. My daughter my Rose I her Rock.
Raised them myself. God in Heaven that was a gift a blessing.
did Christ exhibit ego? hmmm How about self-respectknowledge of truths and power?
Keep working out. Hit Asia Times, Chomsky and The Four agreements.
And study The Stars.... wow 1st post....okay. Nice from now on, or egostupid insulting degrading...guess what ? You don havta read posts ya dislike!
For you Corinthians, ch 13, Love is patient, Love is kind. It does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, et sether uh.
Pharisee blinded on his way to Damascus to slaughter Christians.
AZJOE: I wrote a musical entitled "Born Again" that's a parody of our times, what to me feels increasingly like another Dark Age.
Here are a few lyrics: (These are NOT aimed at you.)
Spend End Times with me...
There's no certainty!
Abstinence to the last!
I keep my dick at half-mast!
Yeah, one can be spiritual AND have fun making spoofs of the fundamentalist Christian platform and its countless hypocritical stances and standards!
Now if this were a scene on Saturday Night Live, the song would be interrupted by a guy selling Viagra.
Then I have my country music schtick:
Honey, love's a 2-way street
And you've blocked traffic too long!
There are PLENTY of others! One has to find their funny bone when times are THIS out of joint!
I may have offended a poster I vastly admire, VASHKAR, by offering a humorous idea on another thread. There is a value here... and it's something the Greeks understood with their twin theatrical masks: one for tragedy and the other comedy. Some would say the human condition cannot produce one without the other. I don't know for sure; but I think we need laughter to keep from becoming brittle. Then something inside of us can die before its time, and right now, I think we all need to be very strong to endure what has taken place, and what is yet to come.
This IS The Transition. I believe the entire paradigm--nature/climate, the world economy, the sacred contract set between a government and its citizens... a great many things have entered into The Coming Apart.
I think of this phase as a tunnel. No one can predict what we'll face when we at last end up on the other side, and many souls will be making their greater transition in this interim. Certain phases in human history hold particular influence, and this is one of them. Perhaps that explains, in part, why so many... 7 billion (?) have come in for the "really big show."
We are eternal spirits temporarily residing in mortal bodies. We forget that, but the ancients did not; and they left this understanding behind that we human beings would never lose our links with the great cosmos, nor the unending aspect of our Essences. GREAT teachers explain this. I am happy to pass on their names, and the titles of the books they've written. Many sit on shelves collecting dust at small libraries where foundations retain the record of what these enlightened ones revealed. What is timeless and True never goes out of style, although its revelations may prove inconvenient to any given era and its rulers. We are in such a phase.
SR...ola amiga, a sunrise worthy of our swan dive into our own essences,
SR I too feel we are , if you will, in the 12th round; and the heat is on-I predict 25-40 yrs hence The Great Satan will be this; the first capitalist industrial country to have a Revolution. Meaning the wealth, assets, property-every farthing the 1% have stolen is ripped from their breasts. Bloody, violent? Of course. ever in history have the bourgouis given it up except 1917 style......But SR, all the wealth redistributed to the poor, the hurting. The hungry. As soon as today's middle class is homeless it will go down. God in heaven I'll hit that vile state texasses and drill a bush...or Wyoming....We, paradoxically will use petrol creatively..a friend has an ar-15 now that he done been politicized.
This will happen as succinctly, excruciatingly delineated in Das Capital, so far..every prediction dead on....Karl says we storm the gates soon
Jefferson thinks we are gutless.
Lovely to hear the lilt of your heart.
AZJOE: Thank you for that "Lilt of the heart." Of course there are the USUAL VANDALS here to speak ill of me... they get the lilt of my boot where possible.
Thanks for your chivalry. Their motives are neither good, nor what they say. As soon as one opts out of attacking me to morph into "good cop," the next one appears to allege the same false charges. It is becoming something of a witch hunt. I want others to notice. It could happen to them, too.
"there are the USUAL VANDALS here to speak ill"
Yes there are! I hope you didn't take offense when I commented on your need for posters to use proper grammar and spelling. It wasn't personal, it's just a sore spot with me.
But seriously, whenever I see that Siouxrose is posting, I jump right to you. I hope you never stray too far from CD. Your insights are perhaps deeper than some are able go. Why don't they just ask for clarification instead of maligning you? My advise, ignore those who seek to vandalize your comments. They're probably projecting, which is the source of most ridicule.
With each article, Mr. Nader provides further justification for all the times I voted for him.
There is nobility and honor in honest work.
In the US, Classism is the most pervasive form of systemic discrimination.
Thanks for shedding some light on this subject, Ralph.
His account of the BWI mens room attendant was quite moving to me. Indeed, if all those who toil at poverty wages would walk out everywhere their strength would be apparent.
Pittsburgh is one of those few cities that Ralph mentioned that still has worker's parade on Labor Day - mostly the unions march, but various workers casues, like single payer form contingents too. Everyone is welcome as long as you are not a boss.
I'll be there.
In America, people don't want to do the dirty jobs from janitor to serving in the military but want someone else to do it for them and when those people refuse to do them anymore, they get attacked for standing up for their own rights after learning from suffering.
"In America, people don't want to do the dirty job..."
The rest of that sentence is "...for that wage."
People choose all kinds of unpleasant but necessary work as long as they are compensated accordingly. So, why can't someone who cleans hotel rooms or picks fruit make a decent living wage?
Arise, you prisoners of starvation!
Arise, you wretched of the earth!
For justice thunders condemnation:
A better world's in birth!
No more tradition's chains shall bind us,
Arise you slaves, no more in thrall!
The earth shall rise on new foundations:
We have been nought, we shall be all!
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international working-class
Shall be the human race
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international working class
Shall be the human race!
We want no condescending saviors
To rule us from their judgment hall,
We workers ask not for their favors
Let us consult for all:
To make the thief disgorge his booty
To free the spirit from its cell,
We must ourselves decide our duty,
We must decide, and do it well.
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international working class
Shall be the human race
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international working class
Shall be the human race
Latinate. Show don't tell.
Billy Bragg's "modernized" version:
Stand up, all victims of oppression,
For the tyrants fear your might!
Don't cling so hard to your possessions,
For you have nothing if you have no rights!
Let racist ignorance be ended,
For respect makes the empires fall!
Freedom is merely privilege extended,
Unless enjoyed by one and all.
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale,
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal,
Unites the human race!
Let no one build walls to divide us,
Walls of hatred nor walls of stone.
Come greet the dawn and stand beside us,
We'll live together or we'll die alone.
In our world poisoned by exploitation,
Those who have taken, now they must give!
And end the vanity of nations,
We've but one Earth on which to live.
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale,
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal,
Unites the human race!
Bless you Ralph Nader, long time champion of us ordinary folk. Ordinary workers who get our hands in there, roughed up, having pride of workmanship even though we are looked down upon by many. There are those of us with families in the trade unions when they were being formed and who got bloodied up for decent wage and working condition. Happy Labor Day!!
Hey Ralph, thanks dude for writing a article respecting us hard working blue collared workers. It's tough work out there and I'm happy that at least I have something but thanks for looking out for us.
Re: "Cultures can be astonishing. The hands-on workers who harvest our food, clean up after us, repair our property, look out after our health and safety conditions and serve as nannies to our children receive few honors, status or anywhere near the compensation of those who gamble with our money, entertain us or drive us into wars they don't fight themselves."
If you think that's bad, try reading the forums for a living. You'll find a lot of hate talk against day laborers when they quack about education and experience. You'd be surprised as to how many self-proclaimed "progressives" bash them for not having a college degree, didn't publish books, didn't fly around the world, don't have "experience", etc... just because of minor disagreements. I know you're not like them and you'd respect blue collared workers even if any of them said anything silly to you. I'm sorry you couldn't win an office but at least you know change starts with people. Hey maybe we'll get people like you. We blue collared workers may not have fame, cum laude education, flying around the world all the time, or star power we each have our pride and try not to let the bullies put us down. Peace.
Daily bloggers on this site or any other site don't keep in touch with blue collared workers. Forums are like television here to keep you distracted. The not so frequent bloggers probably do though. What percentage of day laborers or blue collared workers do you expect coming here to read the commentary? Nader doesn't have time to be fooling around with daily blabbers on this blog or any blog. Get it?
I don't expect everyone to read the shit on this site but still. Yeah you're right. Just getting through some of the rough spots. I think more people would come if there were more practical thinkers instead of those purist assholes and astroturfer zombies. Some posters can sound like elite assholes. Diversity of opinion can be tough in this forum.
I do a lot of lurking on this site and seldom bother posting. I read your shit with everyone else's. You're still worried about some fart trying to make itself big on this forum. Get over it. She's not as big as she claims. Anyone who is really that spiritual would rarely be here in the first place and they wouldn't be preaching love and peace while practicing hate and war. It's just a forum and she has a right to be an asshole here. Nobody hates you for being a Democratic party supporter or they'd be hating drosera, ubrew12, quickstepper, ctrl-z and wjm to name a few. Why don't you look up what they say from past posts and mold your ideas with theirs. It's ok to copy and take other people's ideas. Everyone does it here because it's public and nobody has a copyright over it. Take some notes for a while and then come back when you're ready to post without worrying about assholes. Nobody's gonna remember you personally other than a few established idiots. You should be aware that some of the long term posters on this site are in upper professional careers. Most of them would never take the time to reach out to blue collared workers. Psychologists, astrologers, bankers, IT programmers, etc... don't give a damn about the sick and the poor no matter how much they puff up about it on this site. You need to be prepared with who you deal with. They way you post and rebuttal is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Stop worrying about people you hate and try learning from people who agree with your ideas. You wanna know more tricks and trades of this forum? Just ask and I might be able to help. I'm sure others like Aquifier will be glad to assist too.
Re: "Anyone who is really that spiritual would rarely be here in the first place and they wouldn't be preaching love and peace while practicing hate and war."
Yeah maybe but I dunno. Too many here babbling spiritual bullshit.
Re: "Why don't you look up what they say from past posts and mold your ideas with theirs. It's ok to copy and take other people's ideas. Everyone does it here because it's public and nobody has a copyright over it. Take some notes for a while and then come back "
I don't understand you. Are you saying just copy and paste? Sorry dude, not into it. I post as I feel like it. I'm not gonna change my posting just to suit motherf*kers like Rosie and paddle boy above. I've come to know why people here really blow up. Most of them don't think as they do. I'm a realistic and practical guy but they're not. They try to get big on idealism and spiritual bullshit just to get into some big name's books. They're not really progressive or anything. They'll post unrealistic bs and put on a cartoon show. They're not serious about anything.
Re: "You should be aware that some of the long term posters on this site are in upper professional careers. Most of them would never take the time to reach out to blue collared workers. Psychologists, astrologers, bankers, IT programmers, etc... don't give a damn about the sick and the poor no matter how much they puff up about it on this site."
That doesn't bother me. I don't care what they are. Not every upper class professional is like them. I've seen good upper class professionals like Tina Dopey and she's a practical progressive. One of her articles was here and it's in the archives. If I cared about their careers, I would have been gone a long time ago. I just face it and think of myself as Yassar Arafat vs the Ariel Sharons here.
Re: "You need to be prepared with who you deal with."
Dude, I don't give a damn who anyone personally is, never have never will. I got enough experience to figure some of it out.
Re: "They way you post and rebuttal is like bringing a knife to a gun fight."
Dude, I'm not here to win. I just post what I can and if I lose, I'll take it as a victory for better luck next time. I don't expect to win anything in a forum. I'm already winning outside the forum while they're losing but trying to sell their losing strategies and give this site a bad rap. I'm already winning the contest on helping hardworking Americans who are blue collared and daily laborers just like me.
Re: "Stop worrying about people you hate and try learning from people who agree with your ideas."
I have a right to learn as it suits me. I don't copy anyone.
Re: "You wanna know more tricks and trades of this forum?"
Don't need to. Doing fine, thanks.
Re: " I'm sure others like Aquifier will be glad to assist too."
Some stuff I agree with him on and others I don't.
"Are you saying just copy and paste?"
Not at all. Go back and read what I wrote carefully. Copying an idea isn't the same as copy and paste verbatim. It doesn't take a college degree to get up and fight for your worker rights. It also doesn't a college degree to figure out how to take other people's ideas and compare them to your own. You can always change or keep ideas that you choose. Give interesting explanations and illustrations. I also suggested taking and idea and framing it. Read George Lakoff's books on framing. If you can't learn to adjust your thinking based on what you learned, they'll continue to call you shit like paid troll.
"I'm not here to win."
I didn't say you had to be. But you can feel better about challenging others instead of knocking yourself down every time. If you're gonna do that, then why are you bothering to come here? You're only making it easier for anyone to call you names like paid troll.
Here we go again. You fools can't post without trying to drag me into it. Just amazing. Never miss a chance to try to sling one my way. Why? Because I believe in a system of correspondences you have never bothered to study? Because I am a woman who speaks with authority and knows her stuff? Because I challenge the military industrial complex to which I think you both take your paychecks? Because people in this forum resonate with the ideas I express? And sure, I have some HONEST critics, and persons with whom I am happy to engage in bona fide debate. But you SLIMES always play this little game of gossip whereby you misappropriate my words, impugn their meaning, and generally try to assassinate my character. But then when I call you on it, as this has happened countless times, you try to make it about me being an authoritarian, or hateful, or some other absolute nonsense. As if all this false witness is not tiring to me.
I realize you're here to silence me or otherwise do what you can to try to subvert the messages I feel prompted to share.
And the misogyny. I'll bet it could be measured on The Richter Scale.
My conclusion is that the Light I reveal makes you uncomfortable... because you live in the shadows of yourselves, if not, of society.
"You fools can't post without trying to drag me into it."
Nobody called you personally but your weakness was exposed.
"Because I believe in a system of correspondences you have never bothered to study?"
What "system" is that? The one where you pretend to be open-minded but correspond only with those who agree with you 100% while attacking anyone who questions your ideas even a little?
"Because I am a woman who speaks with authority and knows her stuff?"
What does being a woman have to do with it? Anyone can know their stuff. How can you speak with authority if you claim to be against authoritarianism? It's self-contradicting.
"Because I challenge the military industrial complex to which I think you both take your paychecks?"
There are plenty of people who challenge the MIC here including myself when I get the time to post but you do a unique job of imitating it to your self-centered agenda. There is nothing spiritual about that and you are acting hypocritical. I am retired so I couldn't possibly take a paycheck from the military. Wouldn't you agree that without the MIC, you would have no books to write, no fame, no money, and unable to take trips? How many workers that Nader mentions in this article share your wealthy lifestyle? That could be corrupting your thinking but I'm just guessing.
"Because people in this forum resonate with the ideas I express?"
Hardly. You might not know this but some of your ideas resonate with me and some of them don't. Do I have to explain where I agree vs disagree?
"And sure, I have some HONEST critics, and persons with whom I am happy to engage in bona fide debate."
Sure you do and then you make them enemies when you lose control. I've seen you do this to plenty on this forum. You did it to drosera recently.
"But you SLIMES always play this little game of gossip whereby you misappropriate my words, impugn their meaning, and generally try to assassinate my character."
No spiritually thinking person would ever make up such paranoid delusions.
"But then when I call you on it, as this has happened countless times, you try to make it about me being an authoritarian, or hateful, or some other absolute nonsense."
You always contradict yourself on hate and authoritarianism. You're doing it right now again and I don't even have to pull out from archives. I have read your war posts and you put yourself on the defensive just like that. Outside readers are laughing at you.
"As if all this false witness is not tiring to me."
You mention false witness all the time but your own lying on posters' names makes you your own false witness. I wouldn't be surprised to see you not tired of it but I can't help but wonder how long you will continue it on this forum. If you can't handle simpletons even on simple disagreements, you can't possibly be a spiritual thinker.
"I realize you're here to silence me or otherwise do what you can to try to subvert the messages I feel prompted to share."
You realize nothing and make up paranoid beliefs out of your twisted assumptions. No spiritually dedicated being would be this paranoid.
"And the misogyny. I'll bet it could be measured on The Richter Scale."
Where do you assume they're misogynists? Some people can be misogynists but people who disagree with you male vs female analysis aren't necessarily misogynist as you label them to be every time.
"My conclusion is that the Light I reveal makes you uncomfortable... because you live in the shadows of yourselves, if not, of society."
Your conclusion has a poor foundation so it's no surprise you came to a dark one. You're confused. It's ok because it happens to famous people too under lots of stress and pressure.
FREDERICK: Go back to wearing women's hosiery. I remember that was your schtick when you first entered these threads.
This is really rich... talk about who's calling the kettle black:
"Anyone who is really that spiritual would rarely be here in the first place and they wouldn't be preaching love and peace while practicing hate and war."
I sure practice hate and war. Yeah, that's why I spend time EXPOSING the MIC for the ways that Mars, as god of war, has taken over this nation and gutted its priorities. And it's boys like you who can't stand the truth, that try to conflate your own doings with the Truths I expose.
Like I said to another one of your goon squad, I hope you soon get the karma that you so richly deserve. I have a lot of respect for truth and those who demonstrate integrity. People who lurk, and use numerous screen names to redundantly tout the same false information are either sick, evil, or twisted.
I wonder why you feel the need to talk about me as often as you do? I mean if a topic is of no interest, just pass it by. But your intent is to do harm... and so you repeat the lies about me hoping some will believe them. It's a form of vandalism and on some level you will pay for it.
"Go back to wearing women's hosiery. I remember that was your schtick when you first entered these threads."
I asked you to show evidence but you admitted to lying when you refused. Keep lying until you can prove it.
"Yeah, that's why I spend time EXPOSING the MIC for the ways that Mars, as god of war, has taken over this nation and gutted its priorities."
Anybody can do that stunt.
"I hope you soon get the karma that you so richly deserve."
It's a good thing I for one get the opposite of what you badly hope for everytime so keep it up.
"People who lurk, and use numerous screen names to redundantly tout the same false information are either sick, evil, or twisted. "
You never have a basis for your lying about screen names but you continue it every time. You and Rush Limbaugh should enter a repeated lying contest.
"I wonder why you feel the need to talk about me as often as you do?"
You talk about others so anyone can talk about you. The rules are being followed. If you don't want anyone talking about you, then never post again. Do you see why your own spirituality is being questioned? If you're expecting everyone to treat you as some "goddess", forget it. I saw your conversation with ascott in 2008 and I've seen you lose temper and patience even against a simpleton on this forum. Hyping yourself up as spiritually devoted and answering to higher authority is laughable.
"But your intent is to do harm... and so you repeat the lies about me hoping some will believe them. It's a form of vandalism and on some level you will pay for it."
That is a sign of your personal weakness and inability to communicate. You don't own any property on this forum so there is no "vandalism". You don't know anyone's intents. If you were really spiritual, you wouldn't be acting extremely paranoid like this.
As if it is paranoid to come to a thread and notice that two goons are GOSSIPING away about me, relaying FALSE info, the same crap they've done off and on for TWO years, regardless of how many times it's been corrected...
I am not even going to read your post. You and your buddies are sick pups. And whatever I say you invert or fail to understand, anyway. It's so far over your head you wouldn't notice it if it had its message printed out on a comet.
I would say to go to hell, but you are already THERE.
I see you repeating the same hate talking points ad nauseum on this thread and I have already replied to them so I will refrain from repeating myself. May God have mercy on your troubled soul.
Siouxrose, I have to say this as the nature of this forum has changed to include a level of hostility not seen before. I think there are trolls here that want to frame every issue instead of discussing the issue at hand. I've noticed that it affects posters and aliances form sort of as a protection. I was just thinking how nice it was that an issue could be discussed without a half a ton of Obama bashing. (I didn't vote for him btw) Anyway, take a deep breath it is going to be a long journey.
Hey creep. If you don't like CD why are you here? Easy. Like Fredcerick ya got no life, intellect or awareness beyond your little shriveled sex and anthracite heart-void.
Hey dillettante. Blow. CD is part of some of our souls. Your negative tripe ...are you 13?
I was just playing devil's advocate against an idiot. Get a grip !
So, decided not to throw away that computer of yours after all? Good move.
Shawn Berry says.... "If you think that's bad, try reading the forums for a living."
And how would you know how bad it is to 'read forums for a living'? Or did you just reveal your motive for posting non-stop on this forum?
Paddle on, fraud boy.
Thanks for revealing your motive.
Hey, if these guys KNOW that we posters don't have anything to do with blue collar workers - then they must have special skills.
Shamans, soothsayers, spiritual mediums?
Sioux Rose - what is the correct term for their magic powers of perception?
It don't take magic power bs. Just simple common sense. Easy.
Huh? Are you confused? I never mentioned blue collared workers. I posted to ask Shawn Berry how he knew what it was like to be 'paid to read forums for a living.'
As Jake Newton would ask, what's the business model for paying someone to read a forum for a living? Betcha can't come up with one. Gotta love those "paid to read/post" bs myths. Good as black magic bs.
Shawn Berry says... "If you think that's bad, try reading the forums for a living."
Well, why did you write the above quoted sentence then? If it is a BS myth then how do you know how 'bad' it is to read forums for a living?
Alright, I get it now. I used the term "for a living" loosely. I don't pay much attention to my job or benefits as long as I get something so I've gotten too used to using the term loosely. I also ate a couple extra pizza slices than usual at today's party after finishing another phase of a building renovation to upping it to environmentally friendly. I was also distracted with another episode of "Totally Spies". We get to watch and listen while working. It's a funny cartoon even for an adult to watch kinda like "Charlie's angels". But you win. It was a stupid mistake to use that phrase. Hey, maybe this form isn't too bad. Oh darn !
yeah, sure...