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Women — Still a Menace?
"DANGER! Woman's Suffrage Would Double the Irresponsible Vote. It is a MENACE to the Home, Men's Employment and to All Business."
I stumbled upon a poster with these headlines while doing
research for the 90th anniversary of women's right to vote, which
is on Aug. 26. The rest of the poster shows a sample ballot and
explains that the (responsible male) voter should "Be sure and put
your cross (x) in the square after the word ‘no' as shown here." A
drawing of a hand points a finger at the sample ballot's "no" box,
which is checked.
Presumably, the Responsible Vote had required this kind of careful guidance. At least, the "Progress Publishing Co.," which printed it, thought so.
Uncovering this gem of a poster resulted in a moment of high hilarity for me at the Wisconsin Historical Society. I could not resist pulling a librarian over and showing it to him. "I must, I simply must," I told him, "get this as an electronic file."
Today, it almost seems hard to believe that only 90 years ago, women did not have the right to vote. How could withholding this basic right from half of the population possibly have been justified?
Poking around in the archives, I unearthed more than one answer to that question. For instance, when asked why he didn't support women's suffrage, Milwaukee Sentinel editor James Densmore reasoned, "Women are confessedly angels, and angels do not vote."
Women are angels -- does this mean we're already dead?
Even some women argued strenuously against women's suffrage. Mrs. J.V.L. Pruyn of New York played on men's fears, arguing that corrupt powers would bribe "uneducated women," thereby "swell(ing) the number of the worst class at the polls."
As my research continued, however, my hilarity faded. How had our foremothers felt when people told them that voting would spoil their charm, or that it would destabilize the state, or that men cannot tolerate opposition from those they love? Imagining myself in my great-grandmother's shoes, these arguments stopped sounding funny at all.
I even came across arguments that have remained with us until the present day. According to the aforementioned Mrs. Pruyn, women were "absolutely and abundantly protected now under the existing system of suffrage."
With a pang, this naivete reminded me of the arguments that have blockaded the Equal Rights Amendment in contemporary times. Unlike the 19th Amendment, which gave women the right to vote in 1920, the ERA fell three states short of ratification. Women's equal rights, therefore, have never become the law of our land. In consequence, to mention only a few examples: The wage gap persists, few women have gained access to high office, and college admissions counselors openly admit to discriminating against female applicants. Like Mrs. Pruyn, opponents of the ERA argue that the Constitution protects women enough as it is.
Similarly, this belief that all is already right with the world seems to explain why the United States is one of only seven nations that have failed to ratify the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW). This international treaty combats the sexual trafficking of women and girls, gives them legal recourse against violence, increases their access to primary education, saves lives during pregnancy and childbirth, and acknowledges women's right to own property. President Jimmy Carter signed CEDAW three decades ago, and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee has voted twice to send it to the Senate floor. Still, Congress has never voted to secure women's most basic rights.
As we celebrate the 90th anniversary of women's suffrage, it might seem shocking to us Americans that women still do not have the right to vote in Saudi Arabia.
When it comes to the ERA and CEDAW, however, it is the U.S. that is lagging behind.
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128 Comments so far
Show AllWell it makes sense women in Saudi shouldn't vote, after all they run around in full coverage blankets. How would they even know they are in a voting booth. As wel as the fact they are not allowed to go out in public alone to form their own opinions, at best they would simply vote the way their men told them at worst they'd vote the oppisite for spite and not even know who they are voting for.
But that's not really an argument as the US has no intrest in making Saudi Araiba over into any kind on democracy. We're just happy to get the free land for bases.
>^^<
"Well it makes sense women in Saudi shouldn't vote, after all they run around in full coverage blankets."
That's because their patriarchal religion forces them to be covered but that doesn't mean they shouldn't vote. Even women without veils get turned away at the booths.
Both amusing and precisely correct, Richards. We lag on agreements about cluster bombs, chemical warfare, the international courts--all kinds of things empires, torturers, aggressors (the U.S.) don't like.
“We have become a Nazi monster in the eyes of the world-a nation of bullies and bastards who would rather kill than live peacefully. We are not just Whores for power and oil, but killer Whores with hate and fear in our hearts. We are human scum and that is how history will remember us.” (Hunter S. Thompson)
"Well it makes sense women in Saudi shouldn't vote, after all they run around in full coverage blankets." ....
Your knowledge and understanding of the oppression Saudi women face is about as deep as your spelling and grammar abilities.
In my genealogy research, I found that when a several greats grandfather died young, leaving his wife with children ranging in age from two years to twenty, the wife was "allowed" to retain only her personal property such as clothing, hair brush, mirror, etc. Being of age, the twenty-year-old son was appointed the guardianship of his father's estate (real property, like the farm, farm implements, livestock, etc.,) as well as guardianship of his younger brothers and sisters. If there hadn't been a son old enough to take over the responsibility of the family, another adult male family member would have, and in the event one couldn't be found, an unrelated male would have been appointed. So a woman could face death with every pregnancy, year after year for twenty or more years, and if she was lucky enough to survive, she was considered unfit to raise the children she'd risked her life to give life to.
My personal opinion is that men have done a fantastic job of bringing us to the point the world finds itself in now. It's long past time for another womens' suffrage - to find our place in the top rungs of the running of government, and hopefully stop the insanity before the human race is wiped off the planet by the males.
Genealogy is a very revealing study of humanity and inhumanity. Like you, shadre, I discovered additional inequalities between the genders, when working on a case for one of my clients. The grandmother, a U.S. citizen by birth, had married a man who was NOT a citizen, someone who had NOT yet naturalized. When she married this man, she LOST her citizenship and all of her rights as well. Ultimately, she had to go through the entire process of naturalization in order to regain her natural rights. This practice ended when the 19th Amendment was passed.
"My personal opinion is that men have done a fantastic job of bringing us to the point the world finds itself in now. It's long past time for another womens' suffrage - to find our place in the top rungs of the running of government, and hopefully stop the insanity before the human race is wiped off the planet by the males." -- shadre
I agree with you, and it's about having some balance in our society, too. The metaphors used by Sioux Rose -- with MARS ruling the roost right now, and a hijacked VENUS, is an apt description of our status quo. We see and hear it every day -- trillions for war and for the banksters, with the blessing of our elected officials, and NO money for education, for the arts, for a reliable social safety net, real affordable housing, etc. The list is long when it comes to the deprivations. War and Peace and Mars and Venus -- the parallels are accurate.
Thank you for the reference, Kay. And I much appreciated your long, historical post about the original resistance to women obtaining the right to vote. That mindset has never entirely gone away (or evolved)!
So far, the women who have come to power in major countries-Maggie Thatcher, Golda Meir (not exactly a major country, but a pain in the ass anyway) Ghandi in India, and (almost, but still very powerful, Hillary Clinton) to name a few, have done so my having more cajones than the guys-that is, they play by mens' rules, and then some.I've yet to see any women playing by different rules and managing to take power at the same time-although I have to admit that Angela Merkel provides some hope. In my experience, women work harder, longer, and smarter than most men doing the same kind of work-because they still have to. There are some amazing male duffusses out there getting by on not much more than hot air and a pair of balls.Have you seen the Alan Simpson video??
Michelle Bachelet in Chile (2006-2010, leaving office with numbers in the 80s) -- Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner in Argentina -- and Dilma Rousseff is currently running for president of Brazil, with the support of Lula and also Hugo Chavez.
Yes, I have seen the Alan Simpson video.
I am not sure if it the same in the USA but in Canada if an Aboriginal woman married a "white man" she lost her "Indian Status" but if an Aboriginal Man married a white woman, the woman gained "Indian Status'
Explain THAT one.
Even worse , as late as the 1930s, white women who went out with Chinese Males were forcibly sterlized. The woman was considered "mentally ill" just by going out with a Chinese male...thus the bad genes not to be passed on.
My grandmother (whom I never knew) on my fathers side had 20 kids before she passed away...virtually all of her adult life spent carrying a child and THAT The kind of world far too many IDIOTS want to force on women again.
When I was a young woman, I half believed the romantic nonsense that having more women in the top rungs of government would lead to a more peaceful and healthy world. Now, in the era of Hilary, Condi, Pelosi, et al, I am sadder and wiser. We need enlightened PEOPLE, not just women because they are women.
No surrender, your post is accurate as far as it goes; but if you understood what the early feminists had to say, you'd realize that those who attain power generally adapt to the pre-existing power structures. Given that these bastions of influence are based on violent premises, the few women who attain high positions generally take on resonant qualities. They are hardly an accurate sampling of women!
There are notable males who really get it, have worked on their unconscious sexist assumptions and could very well lead the way to that enlightened society you mention. It also bears mentioning that there is something to idea of proportional representation. If more women factored into the decision-making bodies of power, a greater respect for life would be likely. I am thinking of the Indigenous practice of calling upon the Councils of The Grandmothers before any wars could get underway. The nurturers of life--from birth--tend to appreciate it most.
I have gone over the archetypal energies on numerous occasions. These are universal components of character. In my view they are to psychology what DNA is to biology. Every person owns all of the factors, but each of us expresses them in unique ways with specific archetypal energies dominating our character and behaviors.
I am very tired of hearing people mention a handful of martial women in efforts to undermine the more radical idea that the absence of female representation plays a role in what a society values. Our own cleaves to the ethos of Mars, or the make-war state. How long have women been allowed to shape the political constructs?
America acts much like a teenage boy who's just learning to deal with testosterone. Media is saturated in sexual visual depictions, as are many songs... but I would venture to say that LOVE is a relatively rare phenomenon. And therein lies the rub.
Are you under 35?
"those who attain power generally adapt to the pre-existing power structures"
Right! Remember Audre Lord's comment that "You cannot dismantle the master's house with the master's tools."
It's still wrong to tie peace and love to mainly women and tie violence and aggression to mainly men. Aggression is aggression, man or woman. You can't keep making silly excuses justifying violence in women but getting outraged about violence in men. Either you justify violence or you don't. Be consistent. There is no stable definition on the role of male representation or female representation in what a society values.
"I am very tired of hearing people mention a handful of martial women in efforts to undermine the more radical idea that the absence of female representation plays a role in what a society values. Our own cleaves to the ethos of Mars, or the make-war state. How long have women been allowed to shape the political constructs?"
Women have the power to shape progressive political constructs but I vote progressive while they vote between Obama and Palin. Blaming Mars is childish and silly when they choose to side with aggressive people or be aggressive themselves. Women who go out with nice guys and respect them should be rewarded while women who insult nice guys should face karma in their lives.
"America acts much like a teenage boy who's just learning to deal with testosterone."
How are teenage boys supposed to be good at dealing with testosterone unless both girls and boys are taught abstinence education? Don't allow kids to play around with sex at young ages.
You are a dim bulb that never gets what I say, so I'd appreciate your not commenting on anything I write. I don't think your motives are sincere in this forum, all the nonsense about men wearing women's clothing is just smoke and mirrors.
There were some really excellent comments on the thread following Glen Ford's piece today. They explain how a black person cannot be racist because that inverts the meaning of the term. The same applies to sexism. Presuming you could read those comments and apply them to this thread, there is a glimmer of hope that you would understand why your attempts to invert the message of sexism and dilute its impact on society is repugnant and worthy of contempt.
I don't know if you're a slug, some kind of paid goon, or just an idiot who doesn't understand 90% of the rhetoric that functions as sound argument in this forum. What I do know is that you always manage to show up on THIS particular topic, or ANYTHING to do with women's rights to make the subject about men. You falsely misconstrue my beliefs, statements, views about men, and substitute your own flimsy testimony of the horrors done to men. Since it is MEN who have chiefly held the reins and sponsored the campaigns of terror, it is unfortunate that some have suffered from the insane wars. My point is the lack of equal input from women has had a lot to do with this imbalance. This point has been stated so many times it is tiring for me to repeat it.
Of course whether you're brain dead, or just want to prompt me to waste my time, you pretend not to get it, or don't want to learn, or just are here to be a childish pain in the ass.
I seem to recall your stating you were married, unless that was under one of your other screen names. If any woman actually agreed to share her life with you, I can only send her prayers.
"I'd appreciate your not commenting on anything I write."
Translation, you're afraid to debate? That's your problem missy. You can always ignore as you please and leave it to others to debate. Deal?
"I don't think your motives are sincere in this forum, all the nonsense about men wearing women's clothing is just smoke and mirrors."
I'm no more smoke and mirrors than your narrow-minded interpretation of Mars and Venus to justify your false feminist nonsense which most women don't support. You could learn from Jake Newton about logical fallacies when you're done acting silly. Either you don't know the history of the disparities between men's and women's rights or you're trying to insincerely copy the false feminists complaining only about women's rights being lost. You should know that a lot of clothing women wear today used to be what men wore. Look it up.
"There were some really excellent comments on the thread following Glen Ford's piece today. They explain how a black person cannot be racist because that inverts the meaning of the term."
I read it and added mine. Do away with all discrimination unless you're afraid it'll kill your faux feminista business.
"You falsely misconstrue my beliefs, statements, views about men, and substitute your own flimsy testimony of the horrors done to men."
Ad hominem excuse. I disproved your theory on men and women but that's all you can reply in return? You know why latter feminists were losing? They cared only about some women and nothing about helping the good men out.
"Since it is MEN who have chiefly held the reins and sponsored the campaigns of terror, it is unfortunate that some have suffered from the insane wars."
But that doesn't give women the right to be terrorists either unless you solemnly believe that women should get a bad name. You can't blame Mars for whatever personal aggression and hate you have.
"Of course whether you're brain dead, or just want to prompt me to waste my time, you pretend not to get it, or don't want to learn, or just are here to be a childish pain in the ass."
Your ad hominem attacks doesn't help you. Thanks for defeating yourself again.
"I seem to recall your stating you were married, unless that was under one of your other screen names. If any woman actually agreed to share her life with you, I can only send her prayers."
Never said that. Show me which post you are talking about or take back your lie. You don't know me personally. Assuming that you didn't lie about your broken marriages and relationships I read from the archives, sorry to hear it but that doesn't give you the authority to blame men and Mars for your problems. I've met women and men who have acted just as childish as your reply so don't bother getting personal or going ad hominem. It won't work. Stick to countering my ideas with arguments or don't bother responding if all you have is ad hominem bs. It's for your own damn good.
Hey SR, I like and agree with a lot of what you right, but you come off as an arrogant intellectual elitist when people strongly disagree with you.
Oh but I forgot, you've been PUBLISHED; so, you have a right to be arrogant and obnoxious.
It's ok. If she's lucky, she'll find a nice man who will help cool her down on this. I too have nothing to disagree with her on most issues but saying I'm not a true progressive just because I call for gender neutrality and ending all forms of gender discrimination? Unbelievable. Sorry to bring up the fashion thing but that has a lot to do with the unmentioned disparities between the rights of men and women. The life expectancy of men is less than women while long ago the reverse was true. I don't see any progress there. Women can be single but men are looked at as aliens if they're not married. There's still frowning upon women who are single but it's not as bad against them vs men who are single. Still, no progress there. I see a lot of inequalities against men and it's as much as the inequalities against women. Both genders need to cooperate on addressing the inequalities just like before. Even some celebrities have toned down once in a while. Fame and money can be deadly if used improperly.
I quite liked many of your comments but this ad hominem attack smells fishy. Very disappointing that you resort to spreading misandry.
I suggest lecture of a series of research articles collectively titled "Beyond The Fall Of Man" by Paul Nathanson and Katherine K. Young.
That's because quite a few men in positions of power, no matter how old they are,still manage to act like adolescents full of raging hormones.On a much more mundane level, I frequently come across men in their fifties and sixties (certainly old enough to know better), who insist on acting like super-annuated teenagers. Guys who like to blow stuff up, because it's fun.Guys who just can't help themselves from getting into pissing contests. Fortunately, there are plenty of exceptions too.
For my tastes, there aren't nearly enough of the exceptions in Congress.
"America acts much like a teenage boy who's just learning to deal with testosterone."
No, America acts exactly like the old, corrupt hereditary aristocracy that it is. Nations con't actually have hormones, and analogies relying on them are not really useful.
But as for the notion that society built around female principles would be a beacon of justice: watch any reality show with groups of women.
And as for the idea that Love is the answer: love id jealous, possessive. Love is blind, or at best has dreadful tunnel vision. A society where love was the primary value would be wracked with continuous tit-for-tat revenge killings.
The Women in the Scandanavian countries tend to Govern as you suggest NOT having to play the mans game though even there an element of that exists.
The older I get the less in love with "Democracy" I am , especially as practiced in most countries today. I often think we would be better off pulling names from a hat.
I have often entertained the possibilty of seats being RESERVED for Aboriginals/women/men etc so the makeup of Parliament more closely reflects the population.
Ie 50 percent of the seats in Parliament should be male...50 percent female..5 percent reserved for Aboriginals and so on.
That is a reasonable conclusion to come to. Men aren't perfect either but now we know that neither gender trumps the other. Trust me, you're not sadder but happier once you see it in full.
That's why that one line was very valid. "If all the stupid uneducated men are allowed to vote. Allowing women to vote quite simply doubles the amount of uneducated, stupid people at the polls," anything could happen, they might push over majority for a black man. Then see what happens.
Hindsight is always 20/20, a comment that goes back so far noone is sure where it started.
>^^<
The U. N. CEDAW Treaty was first introduced and signed by 20 countries on December 18, 1979 in NYC, and was effective as of September 3, 1981. As described by the author, Elizabeth Galewski, although the U.S. is a signatory, the treaty has NOT been ratified in this country. There are only seven or eight countries in the world that have NOT signed this treaty, including Somalia, Sudan, Iran and Vatican City (with whom Nancy Pelosi was on the phone when drafting the health insurance reform bill in the House). So, this is the company kept by the U.S.
In 1979, it's important to remember that Jimmy Carter had a Democratic congress, too! It's also important to remember that Jimmy Carter, despite all of his good works around the world, does not really believe in CHOICE! However, already, in 1979, the ERA, the Equal Rights Amendment, was under attack, so to speak, by the religious right, under the direction of Phyllis Schlafly and her Eagle Forum. The ERA has never been passed in this country. Other right wing women's groups, e.g. Concerned Women for America, have also worked diligently to slow progress for equal rights for women.
The ERA was originally written by the suffragette Alice Paul in 1921, and first presented to congress in 1923. In 1972, the ERA was voted on, and passed in both houses of congress, but ratification by the states was necessary for the ERA to become law. The deadline for ratification was June 30, 1982. At that time, only 35 states had ratified the ERA -- ratification of 38 states was required in order to become law. On July 21, 2009, Carolyn Maloney, Democrat from NY state, reintroduced the ERA into the House of Representatives. Sometimes, this bill is referred to as "The Lucretia Mott Amendment."
Susan Jacoby points out in her book, The Freethinkers, that Elizabeth Cady Stanton lost some of her standing in the women's movement when she took it upon herself to rewrite the Bible -- "The Women's Bible." Elizabeth Cady Stanton understood the origins of patriarchy. She was a radical in many ways, and her thought processes are worth taking the time to read. She and Susan B. Anthony's letters, etc. have been published and are available.
On April 25, 2004, I attended an enormous rally in Washington, D.C. for women's rights and for CHOICE/women's reproductive rights. The organizers asked us to sign into the event so that they could more accurately tally the numbers attending. Most of you are aware of how the media downgrades the numbers attending progressive events/rallies/protests/marches. The tallies proved that more than a million people were present in D.C. supporting the rights of women. When Hillary Clinton was asked, later, she said the numbers were NOT enough. We needed MORE! Fellow citizens, that's the Dems for you -- in a nutshell -- we will never be able to gather enough people for them to enact anything even relating to the public interest and "we the people." If the Democrats had all 100 seats in the senate, they would still find a way to fail us.
Doesn't anyone look around and wonder WHY 52% of representatives in the government of The Republic of Rwanda are women, and only 17% of our congress, here in the U.S. are women? Is anyone really surprised when the women in congress, for the most part, support the status quo?
To read the Declaration of Sentiments, drafted by Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Lucretia Mott, for the Seneca Falls, New York Convention of 1848, go to:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/senecafalls.html
Sadly, today, some countries around the world are using the example of the U.S., not ratifying CEDAW, to exit the treaty! This is 2010 -- isn't it? Like the author of this article, I'm NOT laughing, either.
From the 1986 book, written by Margaret Atwood, The Handmaid's Tale:
"She doesn't make speeches anymore. She has become speechless. She stays in her home, but it doesn't seem to agree with her. How furious she must be, now that she's been taken at her word." -- about one of the central characters in the book, Serena Joy, IMO, based on Phyllis Schafly
"Our big mistake was teaching them to read. We won't do that again." -- Commander Judd
Many men still feel threatened by women.
After a group of us women kept a toxic dump out of here, one man grumbled to me, "We should never have given you the vote."
Misogny is the last "racism." It's still socially acceptable to ridicule older women, in particular.
Many men feel displaced today since women can do almost anything men can with the help of machines and intelligence.
Therefore, men are confused about their purpose in the family because the woman isn't their personal slave anymore (despite "Christian" teachings) and she works outside the home making perhaps as much, sometimes more, than the man of the household.
Some men feel women are taking "their" jobs, and these feelings worsen in bad times such as we're in now, leading to suppressed rage, which sometimes pops out as genuine rage resulting in physical assaults against "their" women.
I don't have a solution except that women will have to ensure they have means to protect themselves from enraged men - and there are more than you'd think - who blame women for their own personal failures.
Many religions continue to teach "submission" to girls and women -- right here in the U.S.A. In fact, I grew up in the Lutheran Church -- although no longer a member of any religion -- and discovered that the Lutheran Church continues to preach and teach submission. In addition, I discovered, to my dismay, that they send "missionaries" to other countries, to convert the minions to Christianity, while telling the women in these countries, including Haiti, to submit to their husbands. By teaching submission, religions teach second-class citizenship.
As far as women earning what men earn -- in most cases, that is NOT true. For the most part, women still earn between 70-cents to 76-cents for every dollar a man earns. Men are confused? IMO, they are simply holding onto their power and status -- supported by a patriarchal system that is not healthy for women, or children. The author of the article, Elizabeth Galewski, talks about the wage gap as being one of the remaining inequalities.
From The Handmaid's Tale, written by Margaret Atwood in 1986:
"He's said the forbidden word. Sterile. There is no such thing as a sterile man anymore, not officially. There are only women who are fruitful and women who are barren, that's the law.
"Money was the only measure of worth, for everyone, they got no respect as mothers."
Perhaps attributed to "Vagina dentata" wherein myths of such exist in virtualy every culture.
"Many men still feel threatened by women."
Many men do, and they go into absolute toxic meltdown when they think that women are “banding together” against them. Apparently, groups of men banding together against women is ‘natural,’ but women must be prevented from doing the same by every method available, from ridiculing their attempts to understand their oppression and articulate a response to it — the capitalist media’s attack on all forms of ‘feminism’ being a prime example — to creating rivalries between individual women, encouraging them to compete for ‘favour’ and ‘status,’ to singling out the more outspoken for ‘special treatment’ to “put them in their place.”
And you're right, Kay — the abrahamic religions have a lot to answer for.
Sometimes the condescension is sublte. H.L. Menken once wrote that women should be satisfied because they have the important job in society (raising children), whereas men tend to be bankers, lawyers, and accountants.
Hey, sisters, I'm with you.
When bees start abdicating their flower-pollenating responsibilities, I will march with them in their bee-liberation parades (if I still have the strength).
The most important reason to consider remaining in Afghanistan is women. The Taliban are willing to disfigure, mutilate, and kill women in order to keep them from learning.
A good reason for pursuing a lousy war? I don't think so.When the Afhgans manage to claw their way out of the Middle Ages, they will sort this out for themselves.Meanwhile, I haven't noticed that the US presence there has in any way improved the status of Afghan women.For any improvement, you'd have to go back and have a look at the Soviet invasion.
The Taliban was created by the US. The occupation only keeps them funded and healthy.
I believe that is an oversimplification, to put it mildly.
no, it's a good summary in my opinion.
Look fellas, yes we helped the Taliban get started, but it's pure wishful thinking to assume that without our help they would have gotten nowhere. And if we leave, pretending the Taliban will disappear is just silly.
Here's some strong proof that the US is funding the Taliban.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/afghanistan
/091002/us-military-funding-both-sides-afghan-war
http://www.thenation.com/article/how-us-funds-taliban
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20246
http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2009/08/13/who-is-funding-the-afghan-taliban-you-dont-want-to-know/
Additionally, I had to chance to see the actual breakdown of some of the budget numbers a few months ago on the breakdown of those budget numbers of previous years all through this last decade. I picked up what was supposed to be a dead hard drive from one of the recycling bins at work. I had the guts to repair it only because I wanted to use it towards putting it in an older machine. I looked up the data and the numbers from some of the spreadsheets stunned me. There was plenty of information about their spending habits which would make any reasonable human being wanna puke with disgust. I'll bet there's more information than what I found but mark my words. The Taliban is heavily dependent on funding from the Pentagon. I kid you not. How many good budgets do we have to keep cutting just to stay in Afghanistan all because of a lie that the Taliban will win once we leave?
I don't have time to look all this up right now, but I would guess that much of this 'funding' is either inadvertent, is used in the hope of buying 'friendship' or information, or for other reasons ranging from silly to who knows what.
The ‘woman-question’ was pivotal in Afghanistan from the earliest days of the ‘current crisis,’ yet few in the West actually cared. Foremost in the minds of our political ‘betters’ was checking the ‘Evil Empire,’ even if they had to ally themselves with a motley crew of mediaeval fanatics to do so — what matter if a few women died in the process, especially since they were most likely ‘godless commies,’ functionaries or soldiers of the Peoples’ Democratic Party of Afghanistan, or maybe doctors or teachers (female roles‘contrary to Afghan culture’)?
Now that the ‘danger posed by the Soviet Union’ is no more, Western leaders, media moguls and even quite ordinary folk have ‘discovered’ — shock, horror — that women in Afghanistan are actually being viciously oppressed. Now they have ‘realized’ that their precious Freedom Fighters — whose motto is “A woman belongs in the kitchen or the grave” — weren’t kidding when they talked of recreating the world of the 7th or 8th centuries. Now it’s “gee whiz, maybe we put our money on the wrong dog!” However unexpected this discovery, however genuine this remorse. It avails little those who have already suffered brutality at the hands of the fundamentalist rabble — or those who will suffer in the future.
This is ignorant propaganda. Female advocates for Afghan women have clearly stated that the US occupation has worsened the plight of Afghan women.
The Northern Alliance, who the US supported against the Taliban were known to be serial rapists.
Bu hey Greg, don't let the facts interfere with the dogma, right?
There have been horror stories of serial rapists in scores of countries, even Saddam's supposed 'rape rooms.' But the Taliban seem more determined than just about any group I know of to truly keep women as slaves.
Oh oh oh the terrible Taliban. You're a bit too gullible Greg.
Do you think that you know better than the Afghani women who want the US out?.
You sound like a liberal interventionist, but guess what? It's not America's job to shape the culture of other nations through inavsion, death and torture.
I have a lot of mixed feelings about Afghanistan. I have no doubt that a lot of Afghan women want America out. There are many reasons for that. Their culture has always placed women as subservient beings and conservatives don't like change. Those who have had family or friends injured or killed are bound to want us out. But I do feel bad for those many women who are truly stifled or worse.
"The Northern Alliance, who the US supported against the Taliban were known to be serial rapists."
And the mujahedin and Taliban were (and are) serial mutilators, throat-cutters, stoners of 'loose' women and blowers-out of female brains. And the US supports, arms, trains and pays for both, playing one against the other as an excuse to stay in Afghanistan, the core of the vast network of oil and gas pipelines that crisscross the potential imperial battlefields of the planet.
No offense, but a reasonable paraphrase of this point reveals its self-invalidating premise, to wit:
The most important reason to consider remaining in Afghanistan is women. The US Imperium is willing to disfigure, mutilate, and kill innumerable non-combatant civilian men, women, and children indefinitely in the course of "liberating" them.
Yeah, it's obviously far better to be bombed by an american warplane at your wedding day, than mutilated by your male relatives.
I think that sociobiologists would remind us that human cells are still Great Ape cells. The brightest and strongest females cannot engage in mortal combat to become Alpha. The main prize to the Alpha (as Jane Goodall discovered) was the trebling of his testicle size, plus fingersnap access to all females of the troop.
Sociobiologists would further remind us females are born with about 200 eggs, dispensed at 28 day intervals. Males wreak grievous harm upon other males for a chance to fertilize an egg. Females can bargain for one that has a big cave, or is employed at a good income. The social ramifications and expressions of this power imbalance are myriad.
Look how many nations have, by now, had female Heads of State. But the US - - - ?
"Look how many nations have, by now, had female Heads of State. But the US - - - ?" -- Trylon
Very telling -- isn't it?
There's a very good possibility, according to what I've read, that Brazil, soon, may have a female president. Dilma Rousseff.