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The Guns of August: Lowering the Flag on the American Century
In 1962, the historian Barbara Tuchman published a book about the start of World War I and called it The Guns of August. It went on to win a Pulitzer Prize. She was, of course, looking back at events that had occurred almost 50 years earlier and had at her disposal documents and information not available to participants. They were acting, as Vietnam-era Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara put it, in the fog of war.
So where are we this August of 2010, with guns blazing in one war in Afghanistan even as we try to extricate ourselves from another in Iraq? Where are we, as we impose sanctions on Iran and North Korea (and threaten worse), while sending our latest wonder weapons, pilotless drones armed with bombs and missiles, into Pakistan's tribal borderlands, Yemen, and who knows where else, tasked with endless "targeted killings" which, in blunter times, used to be called assassinations? Where exactly are we, as we continue to garrison much of the globe even as our country finds itself incapable of paying for basic services?
I wish I had a crystal ball to peer into and see what historians will make of our own guns of August in 2060. The fog of war, after all, is just a stand-in for what might be called "the fog of the future," the inability of humans to peer with any accuracy far into the world to come. Let me nonetheless try to offer a few glimpses of what that foggy landscape some years ahead might reveal, and even hazard a few predictions about what possibilities await still-imperial America.
Let me begin by asking: What harm would befall the United States if we actually decided, against all odds, to close those hundreds and hundreds of bases, large and small, that we garrison around the world? What if we actually dismantled our empire, and came home? Would Genghis Khan-like hordes descend on us? Not likely. Neither a land nor a sea invasion of the U.S. is even conceivable.
Would 9/11-type attacks accelerate? It seems far likelier to me that, as our overseas profile shrank, the possibility of such attacks would shrink with it.
Would various countries we've invaded, sometimes occupied, and tried to set on the path of righteousness and democracy decline into "failed states?" Probably some would, and preventing or controlling this should be the function of the United Nations or of neighboring states. (It is well to remember that the murderous Cambodian regime of Pol Pot was finally brought to an end not by us, but by neighboring Vietnam.)
Sagging Empire
In other words, the main fears you might hear in Washington -- if anyone even bothered to wonder what would happen, should we begin to dismantle our empire -- would prove but chimeras. They would, in fact, be remarkably similar to Washington's dire predictions in the 1970s about states all over Asia, then Africa, and beyond falling, like so many dominoes, to communist domination if we did not win the war in Vietnam.
What,
then, would the world be like if the U.S. lost control globally --
Washington's greatest fear and deepest reflection of its own overblown
sense of self-worth -- as is in fact happening now despite our best
efforts? What would that world be like if the U.S. just gave it all up?
What would happen to us if we were no longer the "sole superpower" or
the world's self-appointed policeman?
In fact, we would still be a large and powerful nation-state with a host of internal and external problems. An immigration and drug crisis on our southern border, soaring health-care costs, a weakening education system, an aging population, an aging infrastructure, an unending recession -- none of these are likely to go away soon, nor are any of them likely to be tackled in a serious or successful way as long as we continue to spend our wealth on armies, weapons, wars, global garrisons, and bribes for petty dictators.
Even without our interference, the Middle East would continue to export oil, and if China has been buying up an ever larger share of what remains underground in those lands, perhaps that should spur us into conserving more and moving more rapidly into the field of alternative energies.
Rising Power
Meanwhile, whether we dismantle our empire or not, China will become (if it isn't already) the world's next superpower. It, too, faces a host of internal problems, including many of the same ones we have. However, it has a booming economy, a favorable balance of payments vis-à-vis much of the rest of the world (particularly the U.S., which is currently running an annual trade deficit with China of $227 billion), and a government and population determined to develop the country into a powerful, economically dominant nation-state.
Fifty years ago, when I began my academic career as a scholar of China and Japan, I was fascinated by the modern history of both countries. My first book dealt with the way the Japanese invasion of China in the 1930s spurred Mao Zedong and the Chinese Communist Party he headed on a trajectory to power, thanks to its nationalist resistance to that foreign invader. Incidentally, it is not difficult to find many examples of this process in which a domestic political group gains power because it champions resistance to foreign troops. In the immediate post-WWII period, it occurred in Vietnam, Indonesia, and Malaysia; with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, all over Eastern Europe; and today, it is surely occurring in Afghanistan and probably in Iraq as well.
Once the Cultural Revolution began in China in 1966, I temporarily lost interest in studying the country. I thought I knew where that disastrous internal upheaval was taking China and so turned back to Japan, which by then was well launched on its amazing recovery from World War II, thanks to state-guided, but not state-owned, economic growth.
This pattern of economic development, sometimes called the "developmental state," differed fundamentally from both Soviet-type control of the economy and the laissez-faire approach of the U.S. Despite Japan's success, by the 1990s its increasingly sclerotic bureaucracy had led the country into a prolonged period of deflation and stagnation. Meanwhile, post-U.S.S.R. Russia, briefly in thrall to U.S. economic advice, fell captive to rapacious oligarchs who dismantled the command economy only to enrich themselves.
In China, Communist Party leader Deng Xiaoping and his successors were able to watch developments in Japan and Russia, learning from them both. They have clearly adopted effective aspects of both systems for their economy and society. With a modicum of luck, economic and otherwise, and a continuation of its present well-informed, rational leadership, China should continue to prosper without either threatening its neighbors or the United States.
To imagine that China might want to start a war with the U.S. -- even over an issue as deeply emotional as the ultimate political status of Taiwan -- would mean projecting a very different path for that country than the one it is currently embarked on.
Lowering the Flag on the American Century
Thirty-five years from now, America's official century of being top dog (1945-2045) will have come to an end; its time may, in fact, be running out right now. We are likely to begin to look ever more like a giant version of England at the end of its imperial run, as we come face-to-face with, if not necessarily to terms with, our aging infrastructure, declining international clout, and sagging economy. It may, for all we know, still be Hollywood's century decades from now, and so we may still make waves on the cultural scene, just as Britain did in the 1960s with the Beatles and Twiggy. Tourists will undoubtedly still visit some of our natural wonders and perhaps a few of our less scruffy cities, partly because the dollar-exchange rate is likely to be in their favor.
If, however, we were to dismantle our empire of military bases and redirect our economy toward productive, instead of destructive, industries; if we maintained our volunteer armed forces primarily to defend our own shores (and perhaps to be used at the behest of the United Nations); if we began to invest in our infrastructure, education, health care, and savings, then we might have a chance to reinvent ourselves as a productive, normal nation. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. Peering into that foggy future, I simply can't imagine the U.S. dismantling its empire voluntarily, which doesn't mean that, like all sets of imperial garrisons, our bases won't go someday.
Instead, I foresee the U.S. drifting along, much as the Obama administration seems to be drifting along in the war in Afghanistan. The common talk among economists today is that high unemployment may linger for another decade. Add in low investment and depressed spending (except perhaps by the government) and I fear T.S. Eliot had it right when he wrote: "This is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a whimper."
I have always been a political analyst rather than an activist. That is one reason why I briefly became a consultant to the CIA's top analytical branch, and why I now favor disbanding the Agency. Not only has the CIA lost its raison d'être by allowing its intelligence gathering to become politically tainted, but its clandestine operations have created a climate of impunity in which the U.S. can assassinate, torture, and imprison people at will worldwide.
Just as I lost interest in China when that country's leadership headed so blindly down the wrong path during the Cultural Revolution, so I'm afraid I'm losing interest in continuing to analyze and dissect the prospects for the U.S. over the next few years. I applaud the efforts of young journalists to tell it like it is, and of scholars to assemble the data that will one day enable historians to describe where and when we went astray. I especially admire insights from the inside, such as those of ex-military men like Andrew Bacevich and Chuck Spinney. And I am filled with awe by men and women who are willing to risk their careers, incomes, freedom, and even lives to protest -- such as the priests and nuns of SOA Watch, who regularly picket the School of the Americas and call attention to the presence of American military bases and misbehavior in South America.
I'm impressed as well with Pfc. Bradley Manning, if he is indeed the person responsible for potentially making public 92,000 secret documents about the war in Afghanistan. Daniel Ellsberg has long been calling for someone to do what he himself did when he released the Pentagon Papers during the Vietnam War. He must be surprised that his call has now been answered -- and in such an unlikely way.
My own role these past 20 years has been that of Cassandra, whom the gods gave the gift of foreseeing the future, but also cursed because no one believed her. I wish I could be more optimistic about what's in store for the U.S. Instead, there isn't a day that our own guns of August don't continue to haunt me.
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Chalmers Johnson is the author of
182 Comments so far
Show Allpeacekeepertwo : It is Time to learn the Lesson, which Germany learned at the end WWII, we must all remember that There is A demon who exist's within each of us. Life is a strugle between good an Evil. The Devil told us,if we do what he Asked he would make us a God. We believed him and now we must pay for that Choice.
Chalmers Johnson does a great job here.
AD
The freaks at the top have no intention of dismantling the empire.
They're mutants, their "brains" rotted by avarice, neurochemically pleasured by smashing and grabbing.
"The freaks at the top have no intention of dismantling the empire"
But what if Americans do?
Problem is, what does one do with the warriors if they are brought home? These misfits are all volunteers and foreign wars are a convenient way to unload these killers. Unfortunately, they wreck murder and destruction where ever they end up. In the old days, they were needed to toil in our mines, fields, and factories. In this post-industrial time we don't need them, so we find a foreign campaign to put them to some kind of work on behalf of the State.
Why not set up some kind of war games in Arizona and give em' live ammo. Put up some big $ and let Fox cover it. Get rid of the jar heads and spare some innocent people of colour who don't deserve to be occupied. Most volunteer soldiers nowadays must have some kind of death wish anyway.
A bit simplistic and callous, don't you think? While I fully admit that modern training techniques produce unfortunately effective killers (see Dave Grossman's book, "On Killing"), not all returning soldiers are psychotics deserving enmity such as you've expressed. (I play music every week with a Vietnam vet who volunteered for that war out of a misguided, youthful sense of family tradition, and he's one of the finest people I know.) Those few returnees who are "natural born killers" often ship back out as highly paid mercenaries for corporations like Xe (nee Blackwater). Many are badly broken men and women who deserve our assistance and care. Dismissing them as "misfits" and suggesting their extermination actually fits the modern, legal description of genocide. Do you favor genocide? Perhaps YOU should go away.
I hereby invite active soldiers and veterans to expand upon my reply.
FastEddie75
For the most part I do agree with your comments. The idea of the veteran who had been in a combat zone and had run amok when he had returned to the states pretty much fits in with the official narrative of the Vietnam veteran who was supposedly spat upon when he returned to this country. You may perhaps find Jerry Lembcke's work on this topic to be quite interesting where he expounds on this issue in his most well written book The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam. As Lembcke notes, "By broad-brushing Vietnam veterans as crazy, prone to violence, and otherwise disabled by the war, all Vietnam veterans were stigmatized and pushed to the margins of American consciousness." Most of the veterans whom I have known have either chosen not to talk about what they had gone through or, like myself, sought counseling in order to deal with their PTSD.
Also, I have never known nor had I ever witnessed any one in a military uniform ever being spat upon, either when I was going to Vietnam or when I had returned to this country. I am not saying, as Lembck states in his book, that this did not happen, but as Lembcke points out, if so many veterans had been allegedly defiled by all those antiwar protesters, then where are the documentation and news photos to back up that claim?
Chalmers Johnson is a person that through his career has had the access to more information that in today's world would be just like the wikileaks kid's information he mentioned, the stuff the public don't need to know. I would take what Johnson says as being more probable than anything said by those who only speak as shills with no real content for basis. You don't get to participate in producing the cia's NIE for 6 or 7 years without learning what is happening in the back ground and what anything would lead to in the future. And as been said before, if you don't remember the past, your future will remain dim.
**********************************
NEIGHBORHOOD GIRL
By John Shreffler
She's new to the neighborhood, her family just moved in
From Greece or somewhere, she's a great tall gawky girl
With braces and earrings and uneven skin:
Hormones and acne, her change is coming in,
And today, she's playing hooky. January fog.
Orange lights on the school zone sign beat out their tattoo
And caution the Homeland's socked-in morning rush
With their strobe-light samba: Condition Amber,
As she sits invisible, swinging her legs to the beat,
Perched up high on aluminum over
The uncanny Day-Glo of the key-lime fluorescence
That says: School at the top this composition.
I see her and she lets me. I'm an old family friend:
Sometimes I play poker with her Aunt Erato.
Her name is Nemesis and she's just moved in,
She's new to the neighborhood, she's checking it out.
I haven't read Chalmers Johnson but its a well written piece.
For some reason I suspect the possibility of something catastrophic happening in the USA to shock and awe the world. Perhaps the gods will strike a blow of such proportions as to awaken the latent potential of humanity there. Maybe a good chunk of California will fall into the ocean along that San Andreas Fault line or a nuclear reactor will blow its top? Heavens forbid but the gods are angry!
Obama and his Administration are going with a momentum that is out of all control.
Legal frameworks are broken and lawlessness prevails. Brutal force is being unleashed upon this world and the Neo-Liberal Capitalist System itself has already utterly collapsed (only to be patched up to struggle along awhile, till its inevitable final demise). The unnecessary suffering globally has reached astonishing proportions while waste and corruption are perpetuated and imitated abroad. Political elites follow the leader. Crime is encouraged and Corporations rule primarily through force of arms and economic blackmail. Barbarism on the Third World for profit?
How did 'the free world' allow such to happen? What happened to proper education? We the people cannot escape responsibility for what governments are doing in our name. I suspect that too many American citizens who were conned and indoctrinated would find it too painful to admit that this is evidently so even to themselves? They'd seemingly prefer to live a lie to that grave. Conscience remains asleep and ignorance becomes entrenched by a manufactured false image.
The dollar has been the idolised God of the USA.
Tears at that anthem and allegiance sworn to a flag? And lets not forget God smiling down on all those chosen citizens.
Actually, I think what's happening to America is 'catastrophic' enough. All her assets have been 'derivatized' and traded in such a way that money flows toward financial centers and away from Mainstreet. I see no momentum to change this, in part because there's a 24/7 disinformation machine chanting 'free market' wherever one turns. America's assets are used and leveraged to purchase investments overseas, not for Americans but for the global oligarchs, who then sell the manufactured goods back to Americans on credit at 20% interest. The country has HUGE structural problems now, but is committed to overseas empire, on behalf of these same oligarchs. You could call Americans 'slaves to the free market', but they're still slaves. As the economy falters this Fall, more and more we're going to be locked into a decades long decline, from which we will emerge confused and rattled. Its all bad enough and reason enough to jump ship. Follow the oligarchs to greener pastures.
some people find it's easier to assimilate information by listening. 2 good interviews w/ chalmers johnson can be found here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sunday, March 14, 2010
Chalmers Johnson on Media Matters with Bob McChesney
http://will.illinois.edu/mediamatters/P12/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Chalmers Johnson: "Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic"
February 27, 2007
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/2/27/chalmers_johnson_nemesis_the_last_days
...peace...
One grand thing about US decline: the rest of the world will thrive as America withers on the vine. Like Latin America--Bolivia, Venezuela, Brazil--which has placed the welfare of ordinary human beings above that of plutocrats. Politically, the whole world will breathe a sigh of relief as the United States sinks into decrepitude as it did when the Soviet Union went down. It is a thing to rejoice about.
While I truly think it will be good for the rest of the world to thrive, I am unable to rejoice watching our country sink into "decrepitude". Homelessness, joblessness, suicides, crumbling infrastructure, and for what...so 1% of the population can maintain their wealth and we can continue an illusion of being an empire.
We are a country made of numerous immigrant groups, who at least at one time believed in the concept of a representative republic, that "progressed" to provide social security programs and advocated for civil rights for all. Why aren't "we the people" turning around this truck of destruction? Why don't the 99% turn off their television and demand a media which is not corporate owned to "tell it like it is and the truth"? Why do we continue to purchase from the big box stores which use profits to lobby for better tax breaks or subsidies OR to fund campaigns which work against the common good? Why aren't we really helping each other out in every community, in every state, in this country? How many are concerned not just with our economy, but with the "soul" of our country? I wish I knew how many of our fellow citizens truly believe in "American Exceptionalism" and "austerity economics"...that would be the final piece of information. History has shown repeatedly that arrogance will destroy us.
While the 1% with wealth and power continues to push for an "uneducated" populace through programs to further divide us (charter schools and private schools), they are aiding this destruction. Maybe they don't care because they are already isolated in their gated communities with limos to work and can leave the country at any time if things get "too heated". But, the remaining 99% of us need to do something NOW. We could start today by doing one good thing for one other person (beyond what you might normally do for a family or friend). Sometimes things start small.
i echo your sentiments.
'How many are concerned not just with our economy, but with the "soul" of our country?'
'Maybe they don't care because they are already isolated in their gated communities'
many americans are trying the best they can, w/ their limited resources, to improve the lot of their fellow man/woman. as the demise of our society accelerates, even those in the gated communities will not be immune from knowing a person who has suffered as a result of their decadent consumption and indifference. there is a tipping point, i don't believe we're even close to the bottom yet, but there is a point where people's consciences kick in. in nazi germany there were people who resisted. we can resist, consequences be damned. thank you for the reminder....
'...start today by doing one good thing for one other person (beyond what you might normally do for a family or friend)...'
...peace...
Johnson: "I'm losing interest in continuing to analyze and dissect the prospects for the U.S. over the next few years"
When Johnson lost interest in China in the '60s, he turned to study Japan. I wish he had mentioned where he will turn now. That's information I really could have used. I liked the rest of this piece, but I need to know where to go during our 'Cultural Revolution'.
Turn to the real America. India would be all thats left according to his reasoning and that would be a fragile basket indeed.
No, I agree with Johnson. America is continuing an extended period of 'navel-gazing' during which it really isn't going to be much fun to live here. Canada, Australia, New Zealand are in good fiscal shape. China is where the action is. I also like Korea and Vietnam. Also Brazil, Argentina, and Chile.
I'd suggest that there isn't much "naval gazing" going on as people think. I'd also suggest that our expert elite are missing the boat again in their assements and projections.
My State has a larger population and/or economy than most you name. We also are in better fiscal shape than most of those named except Australia and China, but close. Demographically we are in far greater shape and better positioned than any of them. So maybe the country of Texas would be where he should turn? :)
P.S. If we were allowed to abide by the same rules as those countries we'd blow past them like a rocket.
Curious, what rules?
Come now. You know exactly what rules I'm talking about. A level playing field.
Though I have to say, even if allowed to, we'd not do some of the things they do.
My question was simple, and to the point.
There was nothing so clear in your beautiful prose, that dear reader (me) would be expected to know "exactly what rules", you were talking about, nor even was it clear who's rules.
So since you've ventured into the realm of being a f'ng jerk, exactly what the hell are you talking about? You hold up China as having a level playing field? Huh?
We know the economy is large, the question is where is it going. Where is the country going? I sense a bright future for those nations I named, but not for this one. It has to dig itself out of huge debts, many of them structural (infrastructure) that can't be put off any longer. But it's being held hostage to events overseas, which I believe is because its MIC is valuable to be used in that manner. Unless Americans wake up and repudiate their own media (unlikely) they are going to continue to be distracted from growing problems by 'mosques in Manhattan' idiocies.
A lots been said about how our economy has been structurally hollowed out by our financial sector. Yes, in GDP, its a large economy, but I think its a bubble economy (still). I think the next few years are going to see deflation of that economy far in excess of what others think will occur. When that happens, it'll be clearer that America won't be coming back for decades. Because, even then, our media will press full-time to make us commit resources we can't afford overseas (they know exactly what buttons to press), and offer up 'marxists' of various stripes to blame for our troubles.
This country reminds me of a cantaloupe. Its beautiful on the outside, but some time ago it got infected by a fungus that ate it from the inside out. When the crust finally collapses, the fungus will finally leave for better prospects, and America will have to wait for the seeds to germinate before coming back. I mean, right now, people really know what has to be done to bring the country back. So, the fact that no one is doing that is instructive: there's more 'money' in maintaining the decay. That'll continue until nothing is left to decay, and the fungus leaves. And I just see that process taking 10-20 years or more. But, it'll still be an economic powerhouse, in part because its a large country, and in part because the global oligarch finds our MIC 'useful'. It's just not going to be a very pleasant place for ordinary Americans to live. I would submit that is already true, and is going to get truer.
WE have allowed the plutocracy to engender unpleasant circumstanses for ordinary Americans. Does it follow we must allow them tokeep doing it?
I completely agree with you about our short term outlook in the economy. When the Obamarats refused to fix the damage done by the past administrations and went off on their own job bashing and killing way, they assured us of a double dip recession.
Remember there is a lot of damage to all economies around the world and if you want to see a bubble economy, look to China, their whole economy is based on an American bubble. I'd argue that we are in better shape to recover than most...if we choose to. And it is a choice.
"problems by 'mosques in Manhattan' idiocies" Another Tempest in a Teapot that is by itself irrelevent. But it is an expression of intent I think.
I believe we are in the process of throwing the "Fungus" out. I have NEVER seen our country or its citizens so angry, so intent about fixing our government, not even during the Viet Nam war days.
I'll venture to say that most Americans don't oppose Obama because they believe he is a Socialist because of his HC plan, nor do they worry he or his henchmen are communists, socialists or Marxists. They oppose them because they have proved incompetent and ineffective. Because they are arrogant and are continuing to damage the country.
Americans have already decided about Iran, Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Illegal Immigration, the Health Care plan, Cap and Trade, AGW, our tax and trade policies. It remains for everyone else to catch up.
"WE have allowed the plutocracy to engender unpleasant circumstanses for ordinary Americans. Does it follow we must allow them to keep doing it?" Yes, cuz having allowed it, its now out of our hands. You are assuming some kind of direct democratic action will change the system. But the democracy you imagine was the first thing they ate. "I believe we are in the process of throwing the 'Fungus' out" I don't. I think a 'fungus' will be offered, but the ones doing the offering will be the real fungus.
To me, only campaign finance reform has a ghost of a chance of reforming this democracy so that it can move forward to reform/heal the economy and the greater society. I'm more and more of the opinion, however, that that will never happen. The subject is treated with laughable indifference. You may dismiss 'mosques in Manhattan' as trivia, but by comparison the amount of media time given to campaign finance reform is less than 1%. Hence, the country will limp along, struggling under the weight of its empire obligations, and not actually making anything except derivatives and credit cards. China makes stuff, and stuff once made has a value beyond its money value. Like a tree, its capable of making more stuff, for example. But financial instruments only have whatever value they are assigned, and I think they are already overvalued. And, as we've seen, the purpose of electronic trading is to sweep money toward the guys in the glass-steel buildings, and away from the guys who actually make stuff.
But, look at me, Mr doom and gloom. I don't actually know. There seem to be many thinkers out there, right now, who think we're in for a decade long slide, after which 'other countries' will be at the forefront. Having seen what I've seen, I think thats accurate, but this country will remain powerful and wealthy. As I said earlier, we are each of us just single human beings, all we can really do is 'choose our environment'. If we choose the U.S., I think we're not going to be as happy in the next 50 years or so, then the many other choices out there.
That would be the Texas of creationism in textbooks? No, thanks.
>>P.S. If we were allowed to abide by the same rules as those countries we'd blow past them like a rocket.
Who is not 'allowing it"?
Can you name me a single Country that is setting the Rules inside of America?
Or are you suggesting other countries adopt "rules" that the USA has adopted when they are proven failures?
Perhaps Sweden should rid itself of all Unions and spend 200 billion a year on its Military?
Perhaps Finland should cut the taxes on its richest people ?
The fact is because they have not adopted rules that the USA has adopted , they are better off which means they are doing better because they were not stupid enough to adopt those rules.
As to the State of Texas being better off then most Countries from a fiscal standpoint.
This is an apples to oranges Comparison. You can not pretend you are seperate from your own Federal Government. If I used your critieria to measure the fiscal strength of Canada's Provinces as compared to Texas, most of them would be in far better shape.
They also have better school systems and less polluted Cities. They also have less crime and less people in Jail. They also dont have Perry as "Premier".
And they would not have more then half the population believing the world was "created" in 6000bc. ;) from a fiscal/quality of life standpoint a person is likely better off in Our Poorest province, that of Newfoundland then being in Texas.
Texas may not be as big as mightymite suggests but its economy is still not as bad compared to most states. Most of the prosperity comes from the southern and western quadrants of the state. The north and east quadrants are the worst in conservatives and economics. I hear Finland and Sweden are running into problems trying to keep up with the economic systems. I think they're already switching from socialism to capitalism. What's going on there? Right on with the fallacy of comparing Texas to other nations. I don't think Texas could hold itself as its own country.
Sweden and Finland are NOT switching to Capitalism.
They are doing very well. Sweden as example has a trade surplus. They have less debt as a percentage of GDP then the USA. They have lower crime, less people in Jail, Universal health care , next to no measurable poverty.
Pratically every "quality of life" measurement AND every measurement looking just at Fiscal policies has Sweden well ahead of the USA.
Norway is even better off. Their own brand of "Socialism" has them having accumulated well over 500 BILLION in a trust fund for future generations with a population of some 4 million.
This due in great part to the State owning the Oil resources and rather then having the "profits" and revenues gleaned from that Oil going to Shareholders as happens in the USA, they stash a good deal of that into a trust fund for the people of Norway.
I would contrast Norway with Alberta. They both have about the same population and Alberta has MORE Oil and has been selling Oil for a longer period of time.
Albertas "trust fund" has accumulated around 12 billion.
When you comapre Alberta's Enviroment to Norways, Norway is in much better shape.
Alberta followed the "capitalist" model. Slash taxes...give more money to the Corporations, cut regulations.
The system Norway uses by ANY measure is better for the people of Norway.
Wee need less "Texas" type economies and more "Norway" types.
GwNorth, Texas may have its share of wingnuts on the far right but you're neglecting some of the other states that are worse than Texas. Overall, Texas is moderately conservative so there's room for improvement.
What you say about Finland and Sweden sounds too good to be true. Out here in the Sooner, trying to get people to adapt socialist policies would be like trying to get people to believe that UFOs really exist.
Now you say that Norway is better off than Alberta and you talk about oil. But Norway has to be dependent on oil and they must be getting their share of oil from some other nation. Isn't it also true that even though Europe is environmentally better than the US, they are also dependent on natural resources from Africa and the Middle East?
Still, I would be interested in listening to whatever great ideas Norway, Sweden, and all have to pass around.
Norway is an Oil EXPORTER they do not have to buy oil.
Now THAT said.
Texas in sum total had a lot more Oil then Norway had. Cerainly more people as well but I would suggest in sum total they had more then ten times the Oil Norway will end up pumping out.
The difference in attitudes is the difference between Capitalism and Socialism. Norway felt the oil belonged to all its Citizens and should be shared as equitably as possible.
Thats Socialism.
Texas felt the Oil belonged to a small handful of "Investors" and that those "investors" should glean the bulk of the wealth with some of it trickling down to the masses.
Thats Capitalism.
By your description, Norway sounds exactly like Venezuela. If the oil fields peak in production, how will they maintain their structure? The oil fields in TX peaked in the 1970s making capitalism to easy to impose. Wouldn't that happen to those two countries? I can't convince people to believe in socialism with oil. Americans like to use the stock market to fight for getting some of the profits from oil companies. It's competitive to them and they like it a lot.
But this is exactly why Norway kept its taxes HIGH and build up a TRUST fund.
They know the Oil will run out.
Just as it will in Texas. When it runs out in Norway they will have trillions stashed away for the PEOPLE of Norway.
When it runs out in Texas the Corporations will have TRILLIONS stashed away which they will use to invest in places like India Or Kenya wherein that same small group of "wealthy Investors" extracts all the resource wealth of THOSE nations for themselves.
As to your friends with Stocks. Small time shareholders rarely make significant wealth off of stocks. The system is structured so that only the BIG players, those with billions of net worth already profit.
So as example.
Adjusted for Inflation the DOW is at the same level it was in 1960 IF you use proper measures of Inflation and REMEMBER that the NYSE takes out poorly performing stocks and replaces them with high performing stocks on a regular basis. There is only one Company left on the DJIE that was listed as one of the stocks on the DIE in 1960. (indeed if you even use the MANIPULATED figures the DOW is only marginally higher totday when adjusted for inflation)
Now The DJIE is being propped up by the Government via the Plunge Protection team. Look to Japan as an example of one of the likeliest futures of the DOW , and that is another major Crash with real value adjusted for inflation dropping by over half and never growing again.
What the Institutional investors do is Pump and dump. They manipulate the dow through trades so as to create the perception there a rush on a particular stock, then dump it leaving the smaller holders losing their shirts.
Or they get a little inside "lobbying" of Government going wherein they will invest in a particular Industry after lobbying the Government (In secret) to change policies wherein said Industry suddenly benefits.
Ie buy up Halliburtun stock then lobby for a war wherein "Halliburtun" gets exclusive no bid contracts.
Your "friends that like it a lot" are merely trying to see if they can read the "patterns" of these manipulations. Its just gaming the system. It not "creating wealth".
Thanks GW. The only trust fund that comes close is SS and Medicare but we all know where that's going. But what still bothers me is why isn't there any good news of growth of immigration in those countries and why are they coming the US more than not? It would make sense to leave a capitalist nation and move to a socialist nation but instead of that, we're getting more of the inverse.
Again you are misinformed.
Your Migrants are NOT coming from Socialist Countries. Swedes and and peoples from Norway, Denmark and Finland are NOT Migrating.
Sweden has MORE people born in foreign nations as a percentage of population then does the USA.
Certainly there are a small number of professionals leaving Socialist countries, but these are the types who just want to make more money for the SELF.
If you look at professional sports Hockey is a good example here. The Athelete makes more money here because thats where the NHL Is based and the NHL is the major pro league in the world. Most Swedes/Finns do NOT retire here. They tend to go back to their countries in the off season and even in the off season because they feel Quality of life is better.
As example. A Doctor can be motivated out of Public Service and helping the ill or they can be motivated by how much money they can make and the type of car they drive. Is it a good thing to live in a Country filled with the latter type? Canada has a lot of Professionals that leave for the USA just for a bigger pay cheque, but then want to return to Canada when they retire.
The people moving to the USA out of need come from places like Mexico and India and Jamaica. Those are not Socialist Countries. China is not Socialist. They are Authoritarian.
That looks fascinating. Thanks for the heads up GW. I get a lot of immigrants from Vietnam and South and North Korea too. Most of these Asian immigrants come in with nothing and before you know it, they have more stuff to feel here at home. It's as if they want to be Americanized when they come.
Sweden and Norway should cut off business ties to the US until the US passes single payer health care.
GW: Thank you for this very useful information. As I've stated before, you have a manifold intelligence that adds much to this forum on any number of topics.
GW-
Have you ever tried debating your SHOE???
That IS what you are engaged in with Pike.
GwNorth: good post.
A long time ago--maybe 16-20 years ago, the television program 60 Minutes did a segment on Norway. The Norwegian response went something like: Sure, we pay high taxes but have something to show for it. Free education, single payer, universal health care, good housing, retireee pensions, and decent paying jobs. In America, you people admire and idolize multi-millionaires and billionaires. We don't!
If I could get a penny for every time someone told me 'I hear Finland and Sweden are running into problems trying to keep up... they're already switching from socialism to capitalism', I'd be a rich man.
http://www.swedishwire.com/nordic
/4901-finlands-economy-slips-back-to-recession
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-01
/swedish-slid-back-into-recession-in-fourth-quarter-update1-.html
They're not perfect economies either. Better than the US's? Maybe or maybe not. We could apply some of their good ideas where possible but the US doesn't have to copy any nation's economy.
Interesting you pick Australia, NZ and Canada, all countries where genocide was brought down on the indigenous people. Canada especially is so much under the thumb of the US that is truly an odd choice. There may be some hope here in Canada but I see things going in favor of empire logic with most folks bought into the consumer society hook line and sinker.
I was sorry to see Johnson give up on stopping the empire, but its hard to argue with his logic.
My choices are based on debt obligations that people will be forced to pay. I think America is already coming down hard on her people (as she must) to balance all checkbooks and tighten belts (sh*t flows downhill). Australia and Canada, at least, don't have to be as harsh, and so wont be. (Just take healthcare, for one example.) Furthermore, I sense a willingness in Aus, Canada, and China to make the kinds of public investments that will continue to pay their citizens dividends in coming years. We won't do that in the U.S. because now we can't. That's a true burden, because we actually haven't been making such investments for over 30 years. We invested in F-18's rotting in the AZ desert, and we invested in our wealthy, and they invested in China. America long ran out of dividends from her public investments after the Great Depression (some communities are literally depaving roads). So, not only do we not have such dividends today, but we can't afford to make the investments that will pay such dividends in the future (per capita). I also sense enlightened leadership in Brazil, Argentina, and Chile, but I'm no expert. Vietnam I just think is a good opportunity because of where she is coming from (developmentally).
I hope that wasn't a "Goodbye and good luck" from Johnson, but it sure sounded like one.
Given the steady corrosion of the economy and of electoral politics, I should think that most viable actions involve direct action and local economies, spending as nearly nothing towards the transnationals and large finance concerns as possible.
So people have long responded in places where the international economy does little to support them. So people responded in the States during the depression, to a degree mostly forgotten in the literature.
We will need direct action, but we will also need some basis to survive without contributing to the system we fight while the fight continues.
In other words, lets grow our own food and throw garbage cans through windows. Also, Chalmers said goodbye and good luck a long time ago.
The empire is going down.
"Dark Ages America" in 2006 charts the fall and he does not see any way it can be stopped according to his, Morris Berman's more recent posts.
"Democracy Inc.:Managed Democracy and the Rise of Inverted Totalitarianism" by the political philosopher Sheldon Wolin describes our fate in a more recent book. Full of insights.
What was once the middle class, after stagnant wages for the last 40 years, may be ripe for organizing to restore our constitutional governance. A new book, "Seeds of Change" by John Atlas describes ACORN's amazing ability to organize into dues paying members and worked issues from local issues all the way to the national level. Often they organized outside the political parties, but they were effective agents of democracy for example in registering almost 1 million voters without any documented cases of voter fraud. For me, this is one of the most hopeful books I have seen in some time.
Yes ACORN was taken down by the right wing and its corporate media. When you find out what they did in 40 years including forming labor unions, running housing projects, getting the federal minimum wage, challenging the banks in predatory actions, it is amazing that they were not killed off sooner by the oligarchy. They even started in Arkansas which is the home of WalMart. I have heard that ACORN has started up again in 13 states.
We need some like ACORN to restore our democracy and return to helping those in the lower class.
The light of ACORN is an anomaly against a 40 year slide in unions generally. Now, most Americans are against them and don't even know why, that's how effective the media is in 'instructing' us. And, you know what happened to ACORN. I'm afraid I'm with the doom n gloomers.
In my dark moments I think of the destruction of ACORN as yet another canary in the coal mine in the collapse of our empire. An earlier phase was the destruction of unions as you mention.
There may be hope in the success in South America through the organizing of indigenous people and the effective use of the USA's founding principles.
In any case, ACORN did things that I didn't know had been done, and frankly, I didn't think could have been done. It shows that change is possible.
The Empire is doomed!
And the financial sector is doing it. 50% of corporate profits come from the reckless gamblers on Wall Street, the oil speculators, the houseflippers and AIG insurers. These folks are addicted to easy money--hauled in by flipping papers and clicking on the mouse. They are not all like Henry Ford and the huge economy that the combustion engine and electricity brought us. That was hard manufacturing money. We no longer do that.
We will go down the tubes like the former Spanish, Dutch and British empires that all succumbed to easy money.
2nd tierdom may not be such a bad thing for us, however--we might become a peaceful country that supports its own people.
"I wish I could be more optimistic about what's in store for the U.S."
Barack Flopco, and all those Republicans and Democrats who follow him in the future down the paths of glory, will indeed destroy this nation with the grudging yet nonetheless active participation of a majority of the populace. The United States will end with neither a bang nor a whimper but the sound of someone breaking wind.
It just ended, I feel relieved, and good thing I'm alone right now.