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The Unmaking of the Palestinian Nation
On March 10, I posted on the humiliation heaped on Vice President Joe Biden by the Israeli government of far-right Likud leader Binyamin Netanyahu. Biden went to Israel intending to help kick off indirect negotiations between Netanyahu and Palestine Authority president Mahmoud Abbas. Biden had no sooner arrived than the Israelis announced that they would build 1600 new households on Palestinian territory that they had unilaterally annexed to Jerusalem. Since expanding Israeli colonization of Palestinian land had been the sticking point causing Abbas to refuse to engage in negotiations, and, indeed, to threaten to resign, this step was sure to scuttle the very talks Biden had come to inaugurate. And it did.
The tiff between the U.S. and Israel is less important that the worrisome growth of tension between Palestinians and Israelis as the Israelis have claimed more and more sites sacred to the Palestinians as well. There is talk of a third Intifada or Palestinian uprising.
As part of my original posting, I mirrored a map of modern Palestinian history that has the virtue of showing graphically what has happened to the Palestinians politically and territorially in the past century.

Andrew Sullivan then mirrored the map from my site, which set off a lot of thunder and noise among anti-Palestinian writers like Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic, but shed very little light.
The map is useful and accurate. It begins by showing the British Mandate of Palestine as of the mid-1920s. The British conquered the Ottoman districts that came to be the Mandate during World War I. (The Ottoman sultan threw in with Austria and Germany against Britain, France and Russia, mainly out of fear of Russia.)
But because of the rise of the League of Nations and the influence of President Woodrow Wilson's ideas about self-determination, Britain and France could not decently simply make their new, previously Ottoman territories into simple colonies. The League of Nations awarded them "Mandates." Britain got Palestine, France got Syria (which it made into Syria and Lebanon), Britain got Iraq.The League of Nations Covenant spelled out what a Class A Mandate (i.e. territory that had been Ottoman) was:
Article 22. Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory [i.e., a Western power] until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.
That is, the purpose of the later British Mandate of Palestine, of the French Mandate of Syria, of the British Mandate of Iraq, was to 'render administrative advice and assistance" to these peoples in preparation for their becoming independent states, an achievement that they were recognized as not far from attaining. The Covenant was written before the actual Mandates were established, but Palestine was a Class A Mandate and so the language of the Covenant was applicable to it. The territory that formed the British Mandate of Iraq was the same territory that became independent Iraq, and the same could have been expected of the British Mandate of Palestine. (Even class B Mandates like Togo have become nation-states, but the poor Palestinians are just stateless prisoners in colonial cantons).
The first map thus shows what the League of Nations imagined would become the state of Palestine. The economist published an odd assertion that the Negev Desert was 'empty' and should not have been shown in the first map. But it wasn't and isn't empty; Palestinian Bedouin live there, and they and the desert were recognized by the League of Nations as belonging to the Mandate of Palestine, a state-in-training. The Mandate of Palestine also had a charge to allow for the establishment of a 'homeland' in Palestine for Jews (because of the 1917 Balfour Declaration), but nobody among League of Nations officialdom at that time imagined it would be a whole and competing territorial state. There was no prospect of more than a few tens of thousands of Jews settling in Palestine, as of the mid-1920s. (They are shown in white on the first map, refuting those who mysteriously complained that the maps alternated between showing sovereignty and showing population.) As late as the 1939 British White Paper, British officials imagined that the Mandate would emerge as an independent Palestinian state within 10 years.
In 1851, there had been 327,000 Palestinians (yes, the word "Filistin" was current then) and other non-Jews, and only 13,000 Jews. In 1925, after decades of determined Jewish immigration, there were a little over 100,000 Jews, and there were 765,000 mostly Palestinian non-Jews in the British Mandate of Palestine. For historical demography of this area, see Justin McCarthy's painstaking calculations; it is not true, as sometimes is claimed, that we cannot know anything about population figures in this region. See also his journal article, reprinted at this site. The Palestinian population grew because of rapid population growth, not in-migration, which was minor. The common allegation that Jerusalem had a Jewish majority at some point in the 19th century is meaningless. Jerusalem was a small town in 1851, and many pious or indigent elderly Jews from Eastern Europe and elsewhere retired there because of charities that would support them. In 1851, Jews were only about 4 percent of the population of the territory that became the British Mandate of Palestine some 70 years later. And, there had been few adherents of Judaism, just a few thousand, from the time most Jews in Palestine adopted Christianity and Islam in the first millennium CE all the way until the 20th century. In the British Mandate of Palestine, the district of Jerusalem was largely Palestinian.
The rise of the Nazis in the 1930s impelled massive Jewish emigration to Palestine, so by 1940 there were over 400,000 Jews there amid over a million Palestinians.
The second map shows the United Nations partition plan of 1947, which awarded Jews (who only then owned about 6 percent of Palestinian land) a substantial state alongside a much reduced Palestine. Although apologists for the Zionist movement say that the Zionists accepted this partition plan and the Arabs rejected it, that is not entirely true. Zionist leader David Ben Gurion noted in his diary when Israel was established that when the U.S. had been formed, no document set out its territorial extent, implying that the same was true of Israel. We know that Ben Gurion was an Israeli expansionist who fully intended to annex more land to Israel, and by 1956 he attempted to add the Sinai and would have liked southern Lebanon. So the Zionist "acceptance" of the UN partition plan did not mean very much beyond a happiness that their initial starting point was much better than their actual land ownership had given them any right to expect.
The third map shows the status quo after the Israeli-Palestinian civil war of 1947-1948. It is not true that the entire Arab League attacked the Jewish community in Palestine or later Israel on behalf of the Palestinians. As Avi Shlaim has shown, Jordan had made an understanding with the Zionist leadership that it would grab the West Bank, and its troops did not mount a campaign in the territory awarded to Israel by the UN. Egypt grabbed Gaza and then tried to grab the Negev Desert, with a few thousand badly trained and equipped troops, but was defeated by the nascent Israeli army. Few other Arab states sent any significant number of troops. The total number of troops on the Arab side actually on the ground was about equal to those of the Zionist forces, and the Zionists had more esprit de corps and better weaponry.
The final map shows the situation today, which springs from the Israeli occupation of Gaza and the West Bank in 1967 and then the decision of the Israelis to colonize the West Bank intensively (a process that is illegal in the law of war concerning occupied populations).
There is nothing inaccurate about the maps at all, historically. Goldberg maintained that the Palestinians' "original sin" was rejecting the 1947 UN partition plan. But since Ben Gurion and other expansionists went on to grab more territory later in history, it is not clear that the Palestinians could have avoided being occupied even if they had given away willingly so much of their country in 1947. The first original sin was the contradictory and feckless pledge by the British to sponsor Jewish immigration into their Mandate in Palestine, which they wickedly and fantastically promised would never inconvenience the Palestinians in any way. It was the same kind of original sin as the French policy of sponsoring a million colons in French Algeria, or the French attempt to create a Christian-dominated Lebanon where the Christians would be privileged by French policy. The second original sin was the refusal of the United States to allow Jews to immigrate in the 1930s and early 1940s, which forced them to go to Palestine to escape the monstrous, mass-murdering Nazis.
The map attracted so much ire and controversy not because it is inaccurate but because it clearly shows what has been done to the Palestinians, which the League of Nations had recognized as not far from achieving statehood in its Covenant. Their statehood and their territory has been taken from them, and they have been left stateless, without citizenship and therefore without basic civil and human rights. The map makes it easy to see this process. The map had to be stigmatized and made taboo. But even if that marginalization of an image could be accomplished, the squalid reality of Palestinian statelessness would remain, and the children of Gaza would still be being malnourished by the deliberate Israeli policy of blockading civilians. The map just points to a powerful reality; banishing the map does not change that reality.
Goldberg, according to Spencer Ackerman, says that he will stop replying to Andrew Sullivan, for which Ackerman is grateful, since, he implies, Goldberg is a propagandistic hack who loves to promote wars on flimsy pretenses. Matthew Yglesias also has some fun at Goldberg's expense.
People like Goldberg never tell us what they expect to happen to the Palestinians in the near and medium future. They don't seem to understand that the status quo is untenable. They are like militant ostriches, hiding their heads in the sand while lashing out with their hind talons at anyone who stares clear-eyed at the problem, characterizing us as bigots. As if that old calumny has any purchase for anyone who knows something serious about the actual views of Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu or Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, more bigoted persons than whom would be difficult to find. Indeed, some of Israel's current problems with Brazil come out of Lieberman's visit there last summer; I was in Rio then and remember the distaste with which the multi-cultural, multi-racial Brazilians viewed Lieberman, whom some openly called a racist.
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59 Comments so far
Show AllHere's an idea that was mentioned in a post on another thread here on Common Dreams:
Make the Israeli Government aware of the costs in terms of human lives, resources and money that their occupation of West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, along with their Settler/settlements policy, is exacting.
Do you really believe that the Israelis would give a damn?
They are invaders and occupiers.
Why not?
Did you just wake up?
The track record already shows that they don't give a damn. They want the Palestinians to simply evaporate, and if they won't do that, then a few "overwhelming force" attacks such as Gaza 2009 ought to do the trick.
To put it this way, redballoon; neither Israel or the Palestinians are going anywhere, and, I've been far more awake all along than you and afew others here on CD care to believe.
Very useful article.
This is a good article by Juan Cole that refudiates what a lot of US/Israel ethnic cleansing apologists have posted on CD in the past so I'll go ahead and post the following for the record.
Apologists' tactics in regards to the US/Israel policy of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians:
1 – Attack the messenger (CD poster or whoever criticizes the US/Israel's ethnic cleansing)
2 – If the critic is a Jew, call the Jew anti-semetic or a self-hating Jew
3 – Make it sound like Israel is the victim although Israel is the aggressor and occupier
4 – Point to other injustices in the world to deflect attention of Israel's illegal acts.
5 – State that Jews and Palestinians have a long history of conflict therefore the situation is unresolvable (ignoring Israel's illegal occupation) in order to maintain status quo and further Israel's expansion of illegal settlements
6 – Claim Israel has biblical rights to Palestinian land (thus God supports the ethnic cleansing)
7 – Claim the occupied territory was either no man's land or another countries land to justify Israel's illegal confiscation of the land and the people on it.
8 – Defend the occupation and ethnic cleansing without mentioning the illegal acts: land confiscation, house demolitions and evictions, burning and razing of Palestinian farmland, illegal land annexations, specific apartheid policies in the West Bank, shooting and arrests of non-violent demonstrators on occupied land, restriction of movement, land and sea blockade, restrictions of imports of medicine, food, school supplies and building materials, illegal shooting of Gazan farmers and fishermen...
9 – Make so illegitimate arguments or use inaccurate/misleading facts to justify Israel's illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing policy that it is impossible to respond to them all because every time you try, another illegitimate argument is made. (The Bush administration was a master of this in the buildup to the Iraq war. It seemed every week, another piece of unsupported evidence was made to support attacking Iraq. And every time you challenged one illegitimate argument, the arguer (usually a Fox News viewer) would abandon that argument and jump to the next illegitimate argument and this would continue to the point of exhaustion.)
10 – Switch between tactics 1-9 above in your non-stop argument whenever one of the tactics runs out of steam.
11 – In regards to blogging, create discussion fights and go off topic.
12 – In regards to blogging, apologist is either ignorant or feigns ignorance and attempts to attack the credibility of the comment by asking for a link to the source (effort to waste time of blogger when information is readily available on the internet and the apologist doesn't provide support for his own misinformation). If you don't respond, e.g., because you don't monitor the site all day, apologist discounts your argument, and if you respond, the apologist changes the subject, makes a new attack, or ignores the response.
Apologists use tools such as Megaphone Desktop (www.giyus.org) to alert themselves when articles about Israel's destructive policies appear on the internet so they can use tactics like the above to try and win public opinion.
I got that treatment at the beginning of this new Jewish Revolt, but the Zionists were flooded with the facts by most Common Dreamers.
Shalom
You left out eh passive-aggressive approach (which I haven't seen for a while): There are problems on both sides and we must all sit down together and talk (and the Palestinians should stop complaining in the meantime).
q
Its funny, because the citizens of Israel are in for a BIG surprise once the Palestinians are wiped out. Israel is a military state, it always needs to have an enemy, either external (Palestine), or internal (???).
The elites don't care what religion you are or what you look like, as long as they can exploit you.
The Palestinians can't follow the laws and they won't go to work. Israel has every right to defend itself. Palestinians may be outnumbered but hey, that's business and times are changing. If they can't handle it, then boo hoo hoo. Quit being a bunch of social loafing terrorists and get a job.
"They don't seem to understand that the status quo is untenable. They are like militant ostriches, hiding their heads in the sand while lashing out with their hind talons at anyone who stares clear-eyed at the problem, characterizing us as bigots."
It's great to have the argument in living color. This commentary and the Progressive101 check list for role playing how the haters will make their bid's for connection is fertile ground to work with.
It seems to me "encino" isn't making much of an effort these days. Either he is bored of playing devil's advocate, or he is trying to recall what he can of his talking points without looking them up.
I'm not sure how these folks are paid. Their compensation obviously isn't based on the quality of their arguments.
q
If I'm being paid, I haven't received any checks in the mail.
Well I expect as a top notch ex businessman/mercenary/cop you had best get to work on that...Its revenue! They are getting something for nothing!
I hate to keep talking this up, but again I'm reminded of a recent amusing Matt Taibbi article on extreme narcissists in professional sports.
I was, and remain, grossed out at Taibbi's mention of an NFL star linebacker who liked to sit around naked in the locker room and "jokingly" masturbate as he regaled his teammates with erotic praise for noteworthy wives and girlfriends-- occasionally to completion.
Although I don't discount the existence of "paid" trolls, moles, and other subversive bad-faith actors in comments threads, I think that their "pay"-- or "payoff"-- is the same as the above-referenced perverted jock's.
I've long since stopped pleading "don't feed the trolls", because I appreciate that others feel compelled to righteously engage them for a variety of reasons. But to me, they're at best a depraved carnival sideshow act, like the geek who bites off live chickens' heads or the guy who swallows broken glass.
I can't think of a cheaper thrill than watching someone who types more and more furiously with stickier and stickier fingers, provided they are sufficiently encouraged.
Try this formulation: "The Indians/Africans/Poor/Aboriginees/people on benefits can't follow the laws and they won't go to work." (I have heard these things said time and time again, by the way.) Formulations of this sort tell you just one thing: the people being loaded with the blame are the victims of ruthless oppression by successful groups in a society who have dealt with them unjustly but want to soothe their consciences by pretending those they preyed on were "asking for it". It's a condemnation of us, not the targets demonised by such cliched vitriol. When we say such things we identify, precisely, the problem: our selfishness, our complicity and our contempt for justice.
Bad things happen but hey, that's life and that's business. Time to move forward and if they won't do it, then too bad. Thump them hard and teach them some tough lessons about law breaking !
I got a lesson for you right here tough guy, the only language you wannabe Nazi chickenhawk cowards understand is violence. If you want blood, you got it, oh I forgot cowards like you don't like a fair fight, if it aint shootin fish in a barrel you don't like it.
I am death incarnate !
Your soul is dead that's for sure.
If my soul was dead, I wouldn't be here now would I.
"If my soul was dead, I wouldn't be here now would I.
+++++++++++++++
Yes, you would, EncinoM.
Psychopaths have no soul because they cannot feel. It's genetic and makes for a split brain in the emotional center and the language center, so both feeling and reasoning are affected. Psychopaths are completely indifferent to human suffering and have no conscience, and only can see what they want to see and only want what they want with no consideration for another possibility. They are like a spoiled child, only worse, because in a grown-up body, people such as yourself are dangerous poison, and will stop at nothing to get your way.
Also psychopaths are glib, and lie without blinking an eye, like Benjamin Netanyahu does and all his cohorts. "Oh, of course, we'll take not building settlements under consideration," and twenty minutes later, he'll give the order to continue building them.
It's not a sickness, EncinoM, it's an inherited anomaly.
Unfortunately it is pointless to argue with a psychopath to try to make a psychopath understand because he/she totally ignores what is being said even though he/she may seem as if he/she gets what you are saying sometimes, and even may indictate that what you are saying is understood. Doesn't matter. Psychopaths will just continue to do what they always do and never change, even though they sometimes may modify their behavior a little bit for a little while and throw the other party a few crumbs to appease them or trick them, but then just go back to doing what they want to do. It's a game, with the psychopath getting some kind of rush for causing upsetment and confusion, which gives him/her the oneupmanship position which is part of the rush, the closest thing to feeling a psychopath has. Control of others and Power over them, that's the game.
Pychopaths cannot change. They are doomed to be intra-species humans without ordinary feelings and cause great damage because they are what they are.
Like F. Scott Peck's book title, THE PEOPLE OF THE LIE, that is what Psychopaths are.
So why not take your dead soul elsewhere, EncinoM. It gets to be a nasty drag. But maybe you like that.
For someone else I would feel compassion, but psychopaths don't know what that means or what that feels like because they are incapable of feeling compassion, and don't have a clue to what it is. Members of the IDF wouldn't be able to beat up little 10-year old kids for no reason [an article last Tuesday about the 10-Year old AMIR] and drag them off to prison and that kind of heinous thing if their souls were in the right place. Psychopaths, especially leaders, infect whole populations and train them in their twisted ways and indoctrinate them to their viewpoints. Remember a guy named Adolph. He and his cohorts did one hellava' job on doing WRONG and making it all sound GLORIOUSLY RIGHT.
Strikes me that this is the DECADE of the PSYCHOPATHS: intra-species humans, which means short of being human ... soulless.
In these last years, the Zionist government and the government in Washington D.C. seem infested with many people who manifest just about all the character traits of psychopaths, which include blaming the victims and never taking responsibility for what they perpetrate on others, rewriting history with their twisted minds and lying so easily [see yesterday's article on Karl Rove and Liz Cheney on the talk shows, blaming Bill Clinton for 9-11, etcetera, with GWBush coming out smelling like a rose on every issue]. So many are unflappable; say one thing, do another; seem to have no conscience, no compassion, and carry out their own anti-life, twisted visions while others suffer and that is never mentioned or considered in any heartful way.
Dangerous time this with all these PEOPLE OF THE LIE with their hands on various triggers.
/cm
YAWN ! Dumb and boring drivel.
then bugger off back to Encino dude.
PDFTT
You must be joking. You are bullsh*t incarnate.
I have seen this cretin before, in several other forums. To converse with him is a waste of time. He is about as relevant as a Dodo and has about the same political grasp as an extinct bird as well..Either an adolescent or a drunk, nothing more.
Extinct? I'm a tough conservative and we gots plenty like me keeping America safe and free. Now be nice. Without us, you'd be extinct birdies. Tell your mommy and daddy I said hi.
No, I have respect for true conservatives, you are no such thing. A rather disruptive child whose parents apparently let him down rather tragically.
PURE SMOKE SCREEN -- MAPS ALL GARBAGE
Empire USA needs terror to continue ruling the Middle East,
Israel needs terror to esthetic cleans all Arabs out of the
Promised Land, and the baby bombing carnage must never end.
"And, there had been few adherents of Judaism, just a few thousand, from the time most Jews in Palestine adopted Christianity and Islam in the first millennium CE all the way until the 20th century."
Isn't there the seed of a major irony here: namely -- the Jews are occupying and sadistically brutalizing; still smells the same though some call it defending themselves from; their blood ancestors?
The connection is increasingly being made between the deaths of our boys in Afghanistan and the Israelis murdering Palestinians.
Life had taught me that eventually what goes around comes around. Tipping point is approaching what ever the Zionist apologists post
Endless Loop:
1. The U.S. provides unconditional support to Israel, including money and weapons.
2. Israel uses money and weapons to attack its neighbors and annex new territory.
3. Outraged Muslims create terrorist groups and attack Israel and the U.S.
4. Goto 1.
[Repeat, ad infinitum]
Looks like a profitable business cycle for the MIC
The ongoing catastrophe of Israel/Palestine will not end until the true principals in the conflict sit down and determine what the peace will look like.
They are: the US, Iran, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. All the money, support and arms come from these players and until they decide it's in their interest to settle this, Palestinians and Israelis will continue to kill and be killed in vain.
I blame the US for this mess far more than Israel. Israel is, by anybody's definition, a Rouge State. They don't give a damn about what anyone thinks including the UN. They believe that with their big money friends in the US that they own our foreign policy makers. No wonder they are so arrogant.
Only the US can stop them from this planned land grabbing and genocide of the Palestinian people and anyone else who gets in their way. They are using us to keep the Arabs in the region under control. They will not allow us to pull out of the Middle East or even to downsize. We are building military bases and airfields as we speak. Does that sound like we are downsizing? Until Wussington, gets some balls and says no to the Jew’s big money influence, the Israelis will continue their despicable disregard for the rest of humanity and we will be absolutely to blame for what ever happens in return.
What a steaming pile of horse dung. None of this "happened to the Palestinians." The Palestinians and their Arab brethren made it happen. Had they accepted partition, perhaps the sides could have learned to live in peace.
They didn't and that set in motion war after war after war. The Israelis fight for survival because they have enough history lessons to know what happens to Jews if they lose.
Those who are all set on getting "justice" for the Palestinians ought to remember that there is also "justice" for the Jews who were run out of Arab nations by those anti-Semitic bastards. But I guess that's OK but it's only Jews?
No.
To sort this out, we have to satisfy both sides, not one. That means a contiguous Palestinian state (i.e., a change in borders). That means Israel will have to give up a corridor connecting the West Bank and Gaza and the Palestinians will have to accept that they aren't getting back to the 1967 borders ever.
That said, maybe a few decades and those two nations could live in peace. In the meantime, no Palestinian has any particular right to life in Israel unless he or she is an Israeli citizen.
So if someone comes in, backed up by crooked cops with guns, and kicks you out of your house, that's okay and you should accept it?
The UN never had and does not have any right under its own Charter to take land from indigenous people and hand it over to someone else, as they did in 1948 from the Palestinians. As from 1946, that was a Crime Against Humanity at least, according to their own Charter. Possibly the Crime Against Peace, depending on whether the implicit threat of force would be construed as effective force.
When the Zionists then attacked the Palestinians and drove them out of the half of their land that the UN so graciously let them keep, that was definitely a Crime Against Peace, for which ben Gurion et all should have been hanged. As should Truman, too, as an accomplice. Just 2 years before, the former German government had been hanged almost en masse for *exactly* that crime: taking land by force.
Since that time, there's been an ongoing Crime against Humanity, and additional Crimes Against Peace, for which most of the Zionist adults --certainly the political and military leadership and the "settlers"-- should be tried, convicted, and hanged.
Well said, Mairead! And this is exactly why Israel today is organizing a propaganda war, fearing that Israel will come to be "delegitimized."
Which is a realistic fear, since Israel had no right to exist in the first place. Now that claims of "antisemitism" have lost their power to stifle discussion, people around the world are taking a closer look at Israel, and are horrified by what they see.
A shame you spoil your image by denying Israel a right to exist. Of course they have said right, it is their denial of the rights of the Palestinians that is the central issue here.
What creates Israel's "right to exist"? Do the Romany have a "right to exist" in the sense I think you mean -- a state of their own? If so: in what location do they have the right to have it, and how did they get the right to have it just there?
Does every religion have a right to a state of its own? The world's Jews don't have a single culture or, truly, even a single religion. All they have is a single label (Jew/jewish). And even that doesn't hold up if you scratch it a bit: 'frum' vs Conservative vs Reform vs secular, Ashkenazim vs Mizrahim/Sephardim, Litvaks vs Khasidim, etc. Those are non-trivial distinctions. It was Mizrahi kids on whom, without a qualm, the Ashkenazi ruling class inflicted radiation poisoning under the guise of treating ringworm. The Mizrahim are second-class citizens in Occupied Palestine today (the Palestinians are, accordingly, third-class).
So where does this "right to exist" come from, what does it consist of exactly, and who else has it?
That you bring up religion in the discussion of the validity of the existence of an established nation makes your comment unworthy of response...a condition that seems to exist more and more in your efforts, sadly.
There's nothing at all wrong with my questions, and I repeat them. If you dare not try to answer them, be an adult and own up openly rather than letting your silence reveal that you've no answers to offer.
What the fuck does the religion of a nation have to do with its legality. Does that answer your really stupid and possibly smelly question...
funny you dont look shrewish.
As far as I'm concerned, religion doesn't have anything to do with the legitimacy of a state and you didn't answer any of my questions:
------------------------------------
What creates Israel's "right to exist"? Do the Romany have a "right to exist" in the sense I think you mean -- a state of their own? If so: in what location do they have the right to have it, and how did they get the right to have it just there?
Does every religion have a right to a state of its own?
------------------------------------
You seem to feel that the Zionists have a legitimate right to Palestine. I'm trying to get you to defend that indefensible claim --which is based *entirely* on religious mythology, as I'm sure you're aware. Religious mythology for which no archaeological support has been found in nearly a century of intensive excavation (see Prof. Ze'ev Herzog's "Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho")
You demonstrate only a lack of knowledge of events and actions as well as representing a partisan fiction that in no way models reality.
Now that is what I would call meaningless doubletalk, doubledee.
You say nothing. It's the old meaningless, flawed logic of "You don't know what you are talking about, but I do." The Parent/Authority knows best; therefore whatever you say, you don't know nuthin', kid."
Gotta' do better than that, doubledee.
/cm
Oh horseshit Cee, why bother to post such cryptic and garbled nonsense? History is plain about the events of Israeli takeover of the land, the ousting of the seven hundred thousand Arabs from their ancestral lands and I gave short shrift to a Zionist apologist who blames the Arabs for lack of complicity with their own exiling. What the hell is your excuse?