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New Rule: Let's Not Fire the Teachers When Students Don't Learn - Let's Fire the Parents
New Rule: Let's not fire the teachers when students don't learn - let's fire the parents. Last week President Obama defended the firing of every single teacher in a struggling high school in a poor Rhode Island neighborhood. And the kids were outraged. They said, "Why blame our teachers?" and "Who's President Obama?" I think it was Whitney Houston who said, "I believe that children are our future - teach them well and let them lead the way." And that's the last sound piece of educational advice this country has gotten - from a crack head in the '80's.
Yes, America has found its new boogeyman to blame for our crumbling educational system. It's just too easy to blame the teachers, what with their cushy teachers' lounges, their fat-cat salaries, and their absolute authority in deciding who gets a hall pass. We all remember high school - canning the entire faculty is a nationwide revenge fantasy. Take that, Mrs. Crabtree! And guess what? We're chewing gum and no, we didn't bring enough for everybody.
But isn't it convenient that once again it turns out that the problem isn't us, and the fix is something that doesn't require us to change our behavior or spend any money. It's so simple: Fire the bad teachers, hire good ones from some undisclosed location, and hey, while we're at it let's cut taxes more. It's the kind of comprehensive educational solution that could only come from a completely ignorant people.
Firing all the teachers may feel good - we're Americans, kicking people when they're down is what we do - but it's not really their fault. Now, undeniably, there are some bad teachers out there. They don't know the material, they don't make things interesting, they have sex with the same kid every day instead of spreading the love around... But every school has crappy teachers. Yale has crappy teachers - they must, they gave us George Bush.
According to all the studies, it doesn't matter what teachers do. Although everyone appreciates foreplay. What matters is what parents do. The number one predictor of a child's academic success is parental involvement. It doesn't even matter if your kid goes to private or public school. So save the twenty grand a year and treat yourself to a nice vacation away from the little bastards.
It's also been proven that just having books in the house makes a huge difference in a child's development. If your home is adorned with nothing but Hummel dolls, DVD's, and bleeding Jesuses, congratulations, you've just given your children the gift of Duh. Sarah Palin said recently she wrote on her hand because her father used to do it. I rest my case.
When there are no books in the house, and there are no parents in the house, you know who raises the kids? That's right, the television. Kids aren't keeping up with their studies; they're keeping up with the Kardashians. We're allowing the television, as babysitter, to turn us into a nation of slutty idiots. By the way, one sign your 9-year-old may be watching too much One Tree Hill: if she has an imaginary friend with benefits.
305 Comments so far
Show AllMaher is a bit of a prick, but here he has a case, Too many parents are frankly incompetent at raising their kids. And the kids suffer for it, and so do the teachers. They have students who are lazy, inattentive, uncontrolled by any sense of disciple, have no work-ethic, and are dumbed down by too much electronic entertainment and not enough parental attention.
Parents that fill their home with love, caring, a thirst for knowledge, and lots of books have successful kids. Surveys of years of testing children have shown the biggest factor in the educational success of the children IS the FAMILY. Even socio-economic factors don't matter as much as an encouraging home.
Gary
“God is the immemorial refuge of the incompetent, the helpless, the miserable. They find not only sanctuary in His arms, but also a kind of superiority, soothing to their macerated egos: He will set them above their betters.”
-- unknown
Hear, hear!
gdgoodman;Bullshit;how does God get the blame for what some humans who have free will end up doing and the fact that many of these parents have to work at probobly more than one job.I expect more from the folks here on CD and blaming the victim for what the state,community are doing is shortsighted.And yes these parents,from the poor part of town, are victims.Bill Mahar is full of shit on this one.Tony
Respectfully, I stand by what I wrote. There are indeed a lot of parents that do little to encourage their kids to succeed in school. There are many other reasons a kid might have a hard time. There are also many reasons parents too often fail (including the fascist corporate state and being victims themselves of a mis-education system); from working two jobs to make ends meet, being on relief, to being illiterate themselves. But even under those circumstances it is possible to provide an environment where success is expected, learning is valued, and the parents really give a damn. That costs no money and only a little time.
And there are homes where there are no good excuses and still the parents do a crappy job of raising their kids. Too many.
I blamed the bad parents for being bad parents. Most could be doing a much better job if they really cared.
Teachers cannot take the place of supportive parents -- that factor above all makes the difference in educational success. Parents that do not support excellence in their children are therefore bad parents.
That is what I believe and if that offends you well -- tough shit.
Gary
"We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable."
-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
All you say may be true at this time but the systematic de-funding,tax cuts and other regressive measures which have impacted only the poor and middle class have put parents and teachers in this either or position vis-a-vis the children and what happened back in the olden days has no bearing today.Back then the system was flawed but not completely broken as it is today.Parents and teachers had their dreams and ideals that to them at that time were possible and today?Nada and you can see it and feel it.Why do folks call the American people,"sheeple"?It has all come down to this where people dont give a shit about much at all.I believe that it is all done with the aim of doing exactly what is going on today.The only thing that offends me is that I see no cure and that is the tough shit.Tony
I asked my son how so many (not all) Asian kids who were his friends in the class did so well, despite poverty and non-English speaking homes. Since he spent time with them in their homes, I asked what their parents told them? My son said that the parents didn't say they expected success - they "exuded" it. That's the word he used.
I suppose that means the parents made a big deal about getting school supplies, turned off the TV and expected homework to be done. The girls especially had everything incredibly organized, down to eyeglass repair kits. I think the children were expected to do their work, get help and form study groups as much as they were expected to put on clothing before leaving the house. Much of the after-school activities in this group consisted of studying together, with a generous interspersion of goofing around.
Once in a while, there was a child who was beaten for getting bad grades. So it is not all peachy.
If there were more after school group activities organized around fun and learning, it would be a great help to working parents. Peers are important to kids, so if they get to be with their friends doing something positive, it works out.
Joe
Mayer is correct. The number one predictor of academic success is parental involvement. Let's not however forget that public school administrators are almost exclusively chosen from the ranks of physical education, coaches! The number two predictor is school administrators (principals) being chosen from the ranks of academia. Currently, with coaches controlling the schools we have superior football teams, not superior academic achievement. This is common sense yet is ignored by most Americans. Shame on us! Fire the coach principal's and save the schools.
Yes! Let us depose the "arisjockracy" and focus on ACADEMICS in the academy!
Right on, Bill!
I've commented before that more should be done to beef up the quality of the teaching profession, but Bill Maher is so totally right that we must hold parents FAR more accountable than we do.
I'm an elementary school counselor, and if only one-tenth of what my students tell me is true about how they're being raised, then I can safely tell you that this country has an over-abundance of ignorant, irresponsible parents. It's time to stop making excuses and allowances for them, and to hell if that contradicts conventional progressive ideology.
HB,
What type of school/district are you in-rural, urban, suburban, wealthy, poverty, multi lingual, mono lingual, etc. . . ? I teach Spanish with an average of 30 students per level 1 & 2 (5/6 classes with the other having levels 3 & 4 combined)in a rural poverty district with about 10% of the parents having a bachelors degree (indicator, usually, of wealth). The reason I ask is because we cycle through about 10% of our teachers a year mainly because they move one county over and get $10,000 more so that we are continually "stuck" with 1st year teachers--who have a lot to learn and cannot begin to be considered to be "good" teachers as that takes a minimum of 5-10 years experience.
So the kids are short changed from the start. My son saw a huge difference in the quality of teachers from his prior school (a suburban upper middle class district) and from the stories he told me I cringed (and also confronted the situations).
And your comment about administrators coming from the ranks of the coaches, while true to a degree, does not do justice to PE majors whose collegiate course work is quite intense with courses that are basically pre-med. I admire the coaches and the time they put in for the kids. Does that make them especially qualified to be an administrator? No, not at all.
The problem with administration (and I'm certified to be one but refuse)is that most of those certified have little intellectual curiosity. In my Masters classes the vast majority of the aspiring administrators only wanted to know what they needed to do to get an "A", get credentialed so they could make more money being administrators and that was it-so sad. Many are basic brown nosers who will do anything their boss tells them including hounding out the best teachers because they, the teachers, won't implement what they know are insane educational practices.
This year alone I've had an assistant principal, principal and assistant superintendent misuse statistical language, interchanging percent and percentile in referring to the "advantage" of using "smart board" technologies in the classroom--you might have heard this one as it is being promoted by Promethean, a smart board maker. A qualified teacher can increase student achievement by 17% using a smart board in the class room. Well, I looked up the study, by the latest educational guru-Marzano and guess who paid for the study, yep Promethean. The 17% figure was actually an aggregate of hundreds of all levels of teachers in different subjects giving a pre and post test and then putting the students in a percentile ranking for both and then comparing the results. Not only that but the study was touted to be a meta analysis when it wasn't. I pointed out the problems of this study to all the administrators who used it and was basically stonewalled. The ass sup went so far as to say something to the effect of "Don't tell me you're not going to use technology in the class room (which I had never said or implied) because our school board and the state wants us to use them (smart boards) because of what this study said. Educational insanity at its finest!!!
It can be a bizarro world just like the business world can be.
OYE
I work in a school where 85% of the kids are on free or reduced lunch, but we're lucky to have a teaching faculty of mostly veterans (5+ years of experience, sometimes well over 10). For the most part they're great teachers (unlike other places I've worked). But the parents (most, but thankfully not all) are the real let-down, sadly and needlessly fulfilling the stereotype of "ignorant poor people."
Nonetheless, I don't believe that any major actor in education--parents, teachers, unions, administrators, politicians, etc.--is free of blame for what is wrong with the system. Thus I agree with all your major points, which you have stated very well.
oye el pensador
Thank you very much for a post like this. The more we can learn from experienced and good teachers about the whole system and problems as ya'll see them the better.
Do you think immersion is better for non English speakers or no? In Arizona their experience seems to be positive with immersion and of course historically its been proven most effective.
If you could stop one practice or start one practice, would you tell me what they would be?
Veritas & HB,
Thanks for the responses and comments. As a Spanish teacher I hear the term "immersion" bantered around a lot. It is a bit of a "loaded" term. I don't think that immersion has been "historically proven". A lot depends on what the language skills of the individual student are. Some are more proficient in their native tongue than others when it comes to having the skills to succeed in school. But to plop a child down in a room with absolutely no knowledge of English is ludicrous in my mind.
Yesterday, I was cooking breakfast for my son and two of his buddies who had spent the night and they were watching "Ninja Warrior" show in which the contestants have to complete various obstacle courses and when they fail they end up falling in water and lose. It's all in Japanese with English subtitles. Well since I was cooking and only listening I could tell when to look by the tone of the announcers voice-the falls are usually pretty humorous. But it occurred to me and I commented to the boys, "Now I kinda know how it feels for students when they start off in my level 1 and don't understand a thing I say."
I do not do "total" immersion in my classes as it just doesn't work when you have 30-35 kids of which 6-8 don't want to be there and don't do the work and act up. So I have a bilingual class--say something a couple of times in Spanish then give a quick translation if the sharper students haven't figured it out.
Learning a second language is not an easy thing and gets harder as each year goes by. I studied four years in high school (a college prep parochial school), studied 5 weeks the summer after junior year at ITESM (the MIT of Latin America) in Monterrey, Mexico and it still took me about 2-2 1/2 months of living in Peru after high school to get to the point of being what I considered bilingual, that is having the words flow in and out without translating them in my head. I still read a lot better (as far as word recognition/meaning) than speaking, but then again that's the same for me in English. So, yes, immersion can be seen to be the only way to learn--ironic, eh?
But to answer your question about immersion, I say it depends upon each individual student and where they are at at the moment they enter and as they progress. But you have to have someone who can determine that which many districts won't fund. For non English speakers (and a lot depends on age, experience etc. . . of the individual) it has to be incredibly difficult to have your world thrown upside down, moving, finding new friends, etc. . . . To not teach them at the beginning in their native tongue doesn't seem right and I don't believe it works. But, again, that takes a lot of resources that districts won't spend because it won't be standardized tested.
As far as your last question, the one practice, which really encompasses many things,that I would discontinue would be "grades". Grading/grades is/are one of the most detrimental aspects of education. First, it is logically impossible to "quantify a quality" which is exactly what we do with grades. So right off the bat it is an illogical practice and makes grades/grading a falsehood. I've seen quotes of studies (not the studies themselves that I remember) that say that by the end of 3rd grade a student knows where he/she is on the grading scale. Wow! Think about that. If I am getting D's & F's do you think I'm want to continue being told how stupid I am. I wouldn't and would probably quit trying if the powers that be consider me a "failure" for that is what "F" stands for. What does A, B, C, D stand for? Why no E? Foucault calls this subjectification in his "Crime and Punish" book on prison development in the Western world (mainly France). So the students internalize the grading that we do and believe that it is true because the powers that be say so. Who doesn't think that way. Most people say "you can't get rid of grades, what would the colleges do?" I say I don't care what they would do, they would adjust. But it is so ingrained in everyone that to suggest otherwise is total heresy.
Of course the even most pernicious aspect of grades/grading is the "standard" and "standardized testing". See Noel Wilson's "Education Standards and the Problem of Error" at http://epaa.asu.edu/ojs/article/view/577 for a complete destruction (or deconstruction) of what standards mean, how they work, how they harm and do terror to the test takers, etc. . . . It's not always an easy read and I've read it many times and still get new things out of it. But I've yet to see a rebuttal to it--it's too dangerous to the "education establishment" to even acknowledge it as it destroys standards and standardized testing.
One thing I would like to see done is to actually fund the system so that we can supply, in the words of the Missouri Constitution, a truly "free and APPROPRIATE" education for all the students, not just those in the more well to do areas. But then we might have to divert some of our funding for death and destruction through the various "defense" and "security" agencies. Heaven forbid that we would see it right to fund "life and living" instead of "death and destruction" (yes, I am, as in the words of my life long friends, a commie pinko socialist faggot, ha ha!)
OYE
It has been repeatedly shown that the teacher's expectations of individual students has a great deal to do with how well or not so well they do in school. Experiments have consistently shown that if a student has a previous record of high grades -- even if actually an "average" student -- they will get high grades in that new class.
Expectations of success matter at school as much as in the home.
Gary
"There are few nudities so objectionable as the naked truth."
-- Agnes Repplier
gdgooodman,
"It has been repeatedly shown that the teacher's expectations of individual students has a great deal to do with how well or not so well they do in school."
I totally agree with you on this. I believe that one of my main functions as a teacher is to do just that, expect that the students can learn. The question becomes how can I as a teacher instill that expectation in the students when they walk into the class and realize they-even the "A" students know squat about the subject (in this case Spanish)-don't understand the sounds coming out of my mouth. It seems to me that the "A" students have already figured out that they can learn whatever they put their mind to. But again they are the ones who have been rewarded the most, what about the others who aren't quite so sure. Well, it's a continuous process of cajoling, praising, letting them know when they get it right and gently correcting/guiding them when they don't. But it's more of a process of the students realizing that they can indeed begin to learn Spanish. Once that happens, they start learning.
"Experiments have consistently shown that if a student has a previous record of high grades -- even if actually an "average" student -- they will get high grades in that new class."
I've not seen the experiments you cite. But they would be based on the most common falsehood (and most damning) in education, grades. In what you state lies the problem for many students. That being that they have subjectified what the system has told them they "are", e.g., an A, B, C etc. . . student. Some have even been misled to believe that they are "F" students, that is, FAILURES! Who would want to put themselves in an environment where they are a FAILURE? Yes, it is the system of "grades" and the concept that we can "grade" a student that is the problem, i.e., attempting to quantify a quality which is a logical impossibility even though we attempt to and accept that we can do it. How absurd! Until we change our practices to eliminate this concept we will continue to flounder in reaching/teaching all students.
The best assessment would be to have the students keep track of how much they are learning (of course with teacher guidance)but not through "grades". As it is, at the beginning of the year I give my students a form on which to keep track of their scores on assignment, quizzes, tests. I let them know that grades/grading is a farce, explaining why, but that we have to play that game otherwise I wouldn't be kept on as a teacher. And I also let them know that I will make mistakes in keeping track, for when you include grading quizzes and tests, keeping track on paper of scores and then transferring them to the computer gradebook, I will end up handling hundreds of thousands-even into the millions of bits of information each year. And even if I am 99.99% correct that still leaves a lot of error on my part. They need to keep track of me. And every year students will say, "Hey I show that I should have 95% of the points possible and the computer shows 85%. What's up?" And we go through the scores and sometimes I have made a mistake and others the student has. But the fact is, the grade is what effects the students ability to get into college, scholarships, etc. . . so I want to make sure that if we have to play this game I will make sure it goes in favor of the students.
OYE
Those studies Gary mentions found that, essentially, teacher preconceptions --good or bad-- biased their evaluation of the student regardless of reality.
It comes from the same social place as Deming's finding that 80% of an individual's success or failure within an organisation is attributable *not* to the individual, but to the organisation itself. People are designated as winners or losers, and then treated supportively or obstructively such that confirming outcomes result.
Harris found that a comparable dynamic exists even in the differential treatment of calves in India. The mechanisms are less-subtle, but the results are the same: the desired calves live, the others "somehow" fail to thrive, and die.
It's fascinating, and tells us the kind of things we need to change.
OYE
THANKS! VERY MUCH! Invaluable!
"yes, I am, as in the words of my life long friends, a commie pinko socialist faggot, ha ha!"
Congratulations! I've only been called a commie socialist and I'm a liberal left of center "centrist" most of the time. ASt least they aren't prefacing it with "stupid".....watch it Lefty! (LOL)
Hear, hear!
Nice flip-flop. Last year you were bashing teacher unions in California, when the blame is really best placed on corporate control of everything.
At least you've flopped to the correct position, Bill.
Stay there.
And continue to speak on this issue would ya? Because your points have already been made far more eloquently by education scholars, professors and historians but they don't get coverage in the mainstream media like you do.
Much of the impetus for the demonization of teachers is the continuing war by our corporate masters against labor unions. The corps hate unions because they cut into profits and control and most teachers are unionized.
The bad guys want to privatize schools...and everything else about our lives (think prisons). Hey...look at the money you can make! Isn't that all that matters?
ah, classism. It can always be counted on to support blaming the victims.
How about firing the *Capitalists* who've created a world for their personal enrichment in which most adults have to work all the hours Nature sends, yet often cannot earn enough for the kind of secure and dignified life that allows involvement with kids' schoolwork. How about firing the ruling class that wants to emphasise the cheap testing and high discard rate that comes from regimentation.
The kids who are in trouble typically come from homes in which the parents are in trouble because of choices made by the ruling class over which the parents have no control at all.
Good point, parents don't have time to devote to their kids. Before Reagan, one parent could stay home and provide that time. After 30 years of conservative rule, those days are gone.
On a happy note, while both parents are now forced to work to barely make ends meet, our owners can turn in their tiny 200 foot yachts for more respectable 400 foot yachts, because a 200 foot yacht was just not enough.
The problem with capitalism is the greed. It would work well if we had an incentive for the rich to think more of their fellow man. If only someone could come up with a modest proposal to give them that incentive.
The guillotine????
yep
"It would work well if we had an incentive for the rich to think more of their fellow man. If only someone could come up with a modest proposal to give them that incentive."
It's called 'religion'. It doesn't seem to have worked out very well. In fact, religion is used to keep the masses pacified more than it ever moved the wealthy to act on their supposed beliefs (the rich claim belief systems, too).
Actually you will probably find the culprit is secularism. :)
Mairead
Though you have valid points, lets not absolve the teachers from blame, nor parents, our history is full of immigrants and citizens that worked as long or longer than parents do today and still managed to raise and educate their kids.
Classism/Economics are indeed a dividing line. But what about the structure of our schools? The organization? Is social promotion helpful? Obviously not. Is telling kids they are doing great when they are not helpful? Obviously not.
I even wonder at this point if we all have the same aim for education? Does an administrator that seldom sees a classroom really care? Removed from education, going to "business" meetings/meetings can they?
Its a very complicated question that we must answer.
It is hard for me to blame the teachers, regardless of how bad a few are. They are faced with the fact that many parents do not care.
My father had several brothers and sisters, They grew up in a tough neighborhood in Brooklyn (NY). A number of kids from the neighborhood went to prison. But my father and his siblings all graduated from high school. The boys and one girl went to college. The other girls got civil service jobs. My grandparents were immigrants who valued education, so their kids were educated.
The teachers in the public schools at the time did not put up with much - they did not have to because the parents of those kids who did not drop out supported them.
sheepherder
"It is hard for me to blame the teachers, regardless of how bad a few are. They are faced with the fact that many parents do not care."
There is little question you are right about that!
"The teachers in the public schools at the time did not put up with much - they did not have to because the parents of those kids who did not drop out supported them."
Again, another great difference. They were also allowed to disciplne their students and disruptive behavior was not tolerated.
Teachers are not the main problem, but they are certainly an important part of the problem. I never see them standing up and saying what they think the problem is, nor the teachers unions. All I ever hear is about pay and benefits.
sheepherder and Veritas,
Interesting comments about the "problem" of discipline and what can and can't be done with uninterested/problem students. Did we make them that way with the practices that we currently use in education? My post above/below about grading tries to explain how we, the school, "make" the student and his/her relationship to said institution. Do we not owe it to all members of our society to try to correct what we have thrust upon the students through grades/grading?
Having been brought up in the Catholic system in the St. Louis area (where about 1/4-1/3 of the students go to non public schools), I understand how discipline works when one can just boot students out and turn them over to the public schools. And public schools used to be able to expel students with impunity. The problem was that that practice has been deemed illegal, not to mention unethical in my mind, as our charge in the public schools is to educate ALL students not just the "good" ones. I believe we "make" these "problem" students by the practice of "grading". Almost all kids have an innate desire to learn but we manage to kill that desire from the start with how we label students and how they come to believe our judgments.
And yes, teachers, administrators, parents and students all have a role to play in the debacle we call public education. So we need to expand our ways of thinking, to call into question highly dubious practices and discontinue those that are harmful-starting with "standards" and grading.
OYE
Again, Thanks! And please comment more in the coming year.
Indeed, we are encouraged to blame the victims, to blame each other, when both teachers and parents (and students, for that matter) are largely powerless within a system that is controlled elsewhere by those with quite different agendas.
Can the current system be fixed? Parents are often unaware of their choices and feel powerless to change their children's education. Various alternative education methods have worked fine but are not well-known nor supported, of course, by media or those entrenched in the status quo. The answer, like for many things, is probably local.
If the students had not been innocculated with Rumsfeld sponsored Thermisol ( mercury) vaccines they might have had functioning brains.
Not just the vaccines. Rumsfeld-sponsored Aspartame, too, from his days as head of GD Searle.
Aspartame gives me palpitations. I really do believe that that stuff is pure poison.
"Education" always comes across a sacred, but given dwindling water supplies, fish stocks, overuse of chemicals, putting kids in hock for an "education", it seems that traditional "education" isn't really an education.
The U.S. education industry is worth $1 trillion dollars a year. Obama is just doing what the rest of the Republicrats want to do: transfer that money to the private sector.
You can be sure that when the private sector controls the education system, they will do what they do everywhere else: produce the cheapest, shoddiness, most profitable product.
And education in a box where students that actually pass will not be able to think outside the standardized tests. In addition, since the private sector (media) has shown it can't be trusted to inform the public, the last think I want them doing is educating children.
Another simplistic solution. With Obama it's the all the teachers. With Maher it's all the parents. But these idiots only knew how complicated it really is, from the inner cities to suburbia. It must be nice to put all the blame on either parents or teachers -- never on school administrations, never on politicians. The income inequities hit this area, too, and bad. More families that not are stretched to the limit and beyond.
But, as usual, Maher takes the easy way out. I started watching the show last night and had to turn it off. Maher makes good points, but these days often makes me retch as much as his idol Obama. Yes, he criticizes Obama, but he hasn't gotten off the idol worship yet.
My son's behavior, and his manners, worsened after he was given the "kids have rights" speech. It was a very big thing when he was going to school. The one thing they forgot to tell the kids is that they also have responsibilities. This was a big thing in the 80s when my son was in school. I'll never forget the day he came home and said he didn't have to listen to us because he had rights. It was a constant battle from then on. My son has Asperger's and I also tried to control his sugar intake and junk food intake. I was undermined consistently by school personnel over this -- how I was making my child miserable because he could have soda! Yes, it was like that in the 80s. Oh, but they wanted him on Ritalin, which turned him into a zombie and destroyed his appetite -- but at least he was quiet.
Yes, it cuts all ways -- some teachers, some parents, very much school administration, very much political. I am, of course, speaking from experience of being a non-affluent parent whose child went to what is considered an affluent district on Long Island.
In poor neighborhoods, of course, you can add a lot more to what I've already spelled out. But it seems to me that no matter where you live, when it comes to education kids are really at the bottom of the rung, even though the rhetoric will tell you otherwise. But there is a lot of nice rhetoric -- and that's something both Maher and Obama know a lot about.
Execellent post!
"My son's behavior, and his manners, worsened after he was given the "kids have rights" speech. It was a very big thing when he was going to school. The one thing they forgot to tell the kids is that they also have responsibilities. This was a big thing in the 80s when my son was in school. I'll never forget the day he came home and said he didn't have to listen to us because he had rights"
Something we all forget from time to time. And who's idea was that?
Samalabear: Thank you so much for your post! I know exactly what you are talking about. My oldest son attended high school during the middle 1980s. I lose track of time, but I think he graduated, finally, in 1988 -- and we lived in the Midwest, in Lincoln, NE. My son didn't have the same problems you outline in your post, but he heard the same rhetoric about his rights as a kid. From that point on -- well, I won't go into all of the problems, but they involve boys at that age, and he was a very smart kid, too, who qualified as "gifted!" However, he wouldn't do his homework, and he skipped school, despite the fact that I walked him in the front door of the high school almost every day, and often, he walked right back out of that high school through a different door. I seemed to have NO control over him, and he thought it was funny to NOT obey me. I can tell you that those days were some of the most frustrating, and difficult, of my life. He drank, even though we were NOT drinkers, and he also, for a while, indulged in drugs, too -- street drugs, along with most of his friends. If my son was interested in a class, he did his work, if NOT, he did NOT do his homework. But, in many cases, I can tell you that peer pressure is real, and kids don't seem to think that they have to obey, or respect, anyone -- parents, or teachers. We lived in an upper-middle class neighborhood at the time, and the boys all looked so proper, if you know what I mean.
Today, my son is in his second year of his Ph.D. studies -- so, I can tell you that there is hope, although making money is all he talks about and his Ph.D. will be in "Organizational Psychology," which means he will assist corporations in being more efficient and making even more money.
I worry about all of the kids, whose parents are being pressured by the schools, to put their kids on Ritalin, and other drugs as well. No one knows the effects of the drugs on developing brains. I run across stories about this issue all the time, parents who want to do the right thing, but what, really, is the right thing? Drugs? The pharmaceutical companies are making out like bandits!
Not long ago, my son played a voice mail for me that was from Australia -- in one of his Ph.D. psychology classes they were/are discussing education and holding parents accountable for the behavior of their children. The voice mail is from an Australian high school -- holding parents accountable for their kids not showing up at school. My son thought this was just fine, like Bill Maher, to put ALL the blame on the parents. I looked at him and said, "Don't you remember? I drove you to school every day -- and still, you found a way to leave the school and skip your classes." Today, my son is into the "tough love" business, and "NO EXCUSES" are allowed. Obama seems to embrace that same idea. My son had completely forgotten, conveniently, that I drove him to school every morning, either watched him walk into the school, or walked him into the school, myself, and still, he found ways to elude me and the teachers.
Remember that I'm speaking about, in my post, middle and upper-middle class young people in a white neighborhood -- suburbia -- in Lincoln, NE., and I am certainly not trying to evade accountability, but the issues are more complex than what Obama and Bill Maher are outlining in their speeches and writing,
I remember a breakthrough moment with one of my children whose room was a pigsty during the "kids have rights" period. He told me it was HIS room and he would keep it the way he wanted. (The floor had a layer of old food, dirty dishes, unwashed clothes, scattered books and papers). We lived in an apartment building in which roaches are just waiting for an invitation to move in. You have to keep the place clean in order to avoid using tons of toxic insecticides near growing youngsters. And quite frankly, after working hard all day on the behalf of everyone in the home, and housecleaning when I would rather be resting, I like an environment of reasonable order and serenity at home.
I responded - "No it is my room. I pay the rent, I bought the bed, the desk and the stereo. I let you stay in this nice room and use those things because I love you." He seemed surprised, but could not refute that logic.
I think it is necessary to provide for kids, to respect their rights and opinions. But it is counterproductive to let them run the show. They ARE kids, after all. Responsible and loving parents and teachers should have some authority and work together as a team.
Joe
Think simple; the u.s. education system got us to where we are today.
Mairead has it right re classism.
Listen to Diane Ravitch interview on Democracy Now! in two parts:
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/3/5/protests
and
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2010/3/8/part_ii_leading_education_scholar_diane_ravitch_on_the_death_and_life_of_the_great_american_school_system
I agree -- people should watch the Diane Ravitch interview on Democracy Now!
celtway,
Thanks for bringing up what Ravitch (former Asst Secretary of Educ in Bush 1)has finally come around to understand. I got and read her "Left Back" book, mainly to be aware of what the "enemies" were wanting to do back in the nineties. And they basically got their way and she has figured out and admitted that she was wrong-not that I wasn't screaming at her as I silently read her book.
I emailed her the other day to see if, as an "education expert" she had read Noel Wilson's critique of standards and standardized testing (referenced/link to in an above/below post by me). She responded (I was surprised) saying that she hadn't. It shows that anything that goes against the status quo (not the band!) is best ignored. I emailed her back giving her the link. Don't know if she will read it but if she really has changed her tune I suspect she will. She also suggested I read her new book! Which I probably will get and read just to see how far she has come.
OYE
At a High School in Detroit the reading of Arthur Miller's 'The Crucible' was replaced with a course on how to fill out a Wal-Mart job application.
This is the utopian vision of the forces who wish to privatize our school system....Replacing reading, writing and arithmetic with programming to turn our children into obedient corporate-controlled worker-bee zombies.
I'm sure courses by McDonalds, Coke and Nike won't be far behind.
You must read this amazing investigative piece at www.dailycensored.com (click on 'Corporate Barbarians at the Gate'.).
Excellent. This is what I mean by the multi-faceted problems of why we're in this pit of educational despair. The chances of Maher talking about this kind of thing is about the same chances of him inviting Margaret Flowers on to talk about health care. Thanks for the link.
I have to recommend that most excellent exposé; it is both shocking and well written.
If we had a legitimate media this expose of the infiltration of corporate America (Wal-Mart) into the classroom would've been given front-page coverage.