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'They’re Wasted': The Price of Pushing Our Troops Too Far
When I was on active duty in the military, an Army friend used to remind me: "Any day you're not being shot at is a good Army day." Today's troops, especially if they're "boots on the ground" in Iraq and Afghanistan, don't have enough good Army days. Many of them are on their fourth or fifth deployments to a combat zone. They're stressed out and tired; they miss their spouses and families. And often they've seen things they wish they'd never seen.
But you'd hardly have known this listening to the debate over President Obama's decision to escalate yet again in Afghanistan. Its tone was remarkably antiseptic. I can't help recalling old wargames I played as a kid in which deploying infantry brigades to faraway places was as simple as picking up a few cardboard counters, tossing the dice, and pinning my troops to a new spot on the map. No gore splattered on my face when I rolled snake eyes after pushing my grunts too far into the Fulda Gap while playing MechWar ‘77.
As we roll the dice again in Central Asia, it's clear that we're pushing our Army and Marines too far. Naturally, our troops, notably the brass, will deny this. For them, it's "Army Strong" or "Semper Fi"; only losers whine or bellyache. Well, we Americans need to recognize the limits on our troops, even if they refuse to do so.
So let me be blunt: We're wearing them out.
Our "Wasted" Troops
Quietly, almost imperceptibly, our Army is hollowing out. Such is the predictable result of eight years of ceaseless deployments in support of ill-advised wars. Remarkably, the Army has, so far, managed to maintain its combat effectiveness, in part by its recourse to a "Stop Loss" policy -- essentially a backdoor draft (only recently curtailed by Secretary of Defense Robert Gates) that involuntarily extended the enlistments of 60,000 troops. It has also relied heavily on the use and reuse of the Reserves and the National Guard. Governor Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania noted last month on Meet the Press that "our troops are tired and worn out. [With respect to the] Pennsylvania National Guard, most of our guardsmen have been to either Iraq [or] Afghanistan, over 85 percent, and many of them have gone three or four times and they're wasted."
Signs of severe strain, of being "wasted," are often not visible to the American public. Nevertheless, they are ominous and growing. Suicides have hit record highs in the Army. Cases of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and depression, having reached an alarming 300,000 in 2008, according to Invisible Wounds of War, a RAND study, continue to escalate, constituting a mental health crisis for the Army. Traumatic brain injuries from IEDs and other explosive shocks in our war zones, difficult to diagnose and even more difficult to treat, may already exceed 300,000, another health crisis exacerbated by a lack of treatment available to veterans. Divorce rates among active duty troops continue to climb. An epidemic of domestic violence and crime has been linked to returning veterans and to the difficulty of readjusting to "normal" life after months, or years, in combat zones. These are just five of the better documented signs of an Army that's struggling to cope with wars of unprecedented length and still uncertain outcomes.
To maintain its force structure, given these kinds of symptomatic pressures, the Army has taken several questionable steps. It has boosted the maximum age of enlistment from age 35 to age 42 at a time when its operational tempo is burning out far younger men and women. It has authorized enlistment bonuses of up to $40,000 for new soldiers, and reenlistment bonuses to select soldiers, also for up to $40,000. As the Army attempts to entice enlistees with big-money bonuses and benefits, it's also accepting more recruits who lack high school diplomas; the rate of new recruits with high school diplomas declined to 71% in 2008, a 25-year low. Counterinsurgency (COIN) campaigns -- the sort of wars promoted by Centcom commander General David Petraeus and Afghan War commander General Stanley McChrystal -- theoretically demand restraint, tact, and flexibility exercised at the squad level by so-called strategic corporals. What's the likelihood that enough of today's recruits will develop the sophistication, the so-called "soft" yet decidedly hard-won "people skills" they need to succeed as strategic corporals?
Within the officer ranks, the Army has been boosting the success rate of those promoted to major (a point at which weaker officers are typically winnowed out) to better than 95%. In the past, it hovered around 80%. As Colonel Paul Aswell, chief of the Army's Officer Personnel Policy Division notes, "Every [Army promotion] board is going to select every officer that they can to [the rank of] major for as far as I can see right now."
Because so many seasoned but stressed-out captains are choosing to leave the Army after their initial service commitment is up, the selection rate for major will likely remain above 90% for years to come. "[W]e really don't think that's healthy," concludes Aswell. Plans to add 65,000 new recruits to the Army over the next few years only exacerbate the problem; an expanded Army necessitates even more field-grade billets. Many of these new billets are likely to remain vacant, since it takes 10 years to develop the "Iron Majors," who, along with mid-level NCOs, form the core of the Army.
Instead of a stable pyramid, then, think of an expanded yet still exhausted service taking on a more unstable, hourglass shape: heavy at the top with long-serving colonels and generals, heavy at the bottom with "green" privates and lieutenants, but corseted at its essential core due to shortages of experienced platoon sergeants and battle-hardened company and battalion commanders.
In the military, leaders are supposed to be promoted based on demonstrated potential to fulfill the expanded responsibilities inherent in a higher grade, but here the Army is trapped in a Catch-22 situation: It has to promote virtually every eligible captain to major (and quickly) precisely because so many captains are leaving the military.
Whether at the company or field-grade level, the simple fact is that the Army is bleeding experienced officers. Ever larger numbers of promising lieutenant colonels, for instance, are now taking earlier-than-expected retirements, opening further "must-fill" rungs on the promotion ladder. I know of two highly qualified Army lieutenant colonels who, as outstanding battalion commanders, could easily have reached colonel and might perhaps even have ended up with a general's star. Tired of repeat deployments, constant stress, and extraordinary burdens placed on their spouses and children, they chose instead to retire from active duty.
As we bleed experienced officers and promote marginally qualified ones almost automatically, it's sobering to consider another modern drain on the military -- the vast pay disparities that exist between those serving in the All Volunteer Army and civilian contractors often operating beside them in the same combat zone. Whereas an unmarried Army sergeant makes roughly $85 a day and a married captain roughly double that, a "protective security specialist" employed by Blackwater (now Xe) makes 14 times the pay of our sergeant. Of course, no one joins the Army to get rich, but such dramatic inequities are hardly conducive either to high morale or to retaining experienced military specialists who know they can sell their skills at top value elsewhere.
Indeed, the Army (and so the American taxpayer) is being forced to compete with Xe, Triple Canopy, DynCorp International, and similar private security outfits for the services of experienced non-commissioned officers (NCOs). Even a reenlistment bonus of $40,000 for a staff sergeant with interpreter/translator experience may be unpersuasive when such an NCO could double or triple his take-home pay -- and perhaps decrease his stress level as well -- by hiring on with a paramilitary contractor.
So what, you may ask? Well, despite what Napoleon said, an Army doesn't march on its stomach. It marches because experienced NCOs boot it in the butt and get it moving in the right direction. NCOs are the backbone of any effective army. Lose too many and you're done for.
"Decades More" of Dread and Death
It's this under-compensated, over-stressed Army that we're sending into Afghanistan to accomplish what could only be termed a herculean task. It's not only supposed to defeat the Taliban insurgency by force of arms -- something its troops are, at least, trained for -- but build a nation by negotiating a complex "human terrain." That's Army jargon for the reality that roughly 80% of so-called nation-building operations basically add up to armed social work. Simultaneously, our troops are being tasked with training an Afghan army that, despite years of effort, exists more on paper than in the field.
By all appearances, that Afghan army is hollow. Making it solid and reliable in a few short years is truly a bridge too far for our trainers.
And if that's an overly imposing task, no less imposing are the literal mountains of Afghanistan. One can hardly overstate the mind-numbing fatigue suffered by troops fighting at high altitude. Our soldiers typically carry nearly 100 pounds of equipment, including body armor, weaponry, helmet, ammunition, water, radio, extra batteries, night vision goggles, GPS receiver -- the list goes on. Now, think of hauling yourself and 100 pounds of gear up goat paths at altitudes exceeding 10,000 feet. Think about fighting a lightly-armed, lightly dressed, fleet-footed enemy with better knowledge of the harsh terrain, and with physiologies acclimated to the thinner, drier air.
I asked an Army battalion commander to put the plight of our troops and the challenge of COIN in terms the average American could understand. His reply was sobering:
"Dread is the term most soldiers apply to their emotions in the six months leading to deployment. Not dread of the enemy, but dread of the prison-like conditions of their service [overseas]. There are no leave breaks in Paris or at the canteen. Even coming home for mid-tour leave is stressful as hell.
"Then of course you add the mental grind of constant exposure to [the] lethal threat of roadside bombs and sniper fire and hotter engagements. Or the converse that many times absolutely nothing happens for these soldiers other than traveling to, securing, and returning from endless marginally productive meetings with local leaders. [Add to that] the separation from family, the enforced celibacy and enforced sobriety and uncorrectable disruption of social lives.
"Imagine working without a break in your current job with no weekends... no social events, no wife, no bars, no permanent buildings, no funding. That's what the grind is... Putting up with those conditions and heading out the gate every day... and grinding away at those armed social-working tasks is the new criterion of valor.
"The cost of winning an insurgency is staying at it for years, decades. In a fundamentally flawed operating environment like Afghanistan, we could be there at or above our current level of commitment for decades more."
Decades more: So much for an 18-month timeline for our latest Afghan surge and withdrawal.
The Horrifying Legacies of War
By sending up to 35,000 more troops to Afghanistan, we're further stressing a military that, if not entirely "wasted," is nevertheless showing serious signs of strain. This shouldn't be surprising. Our Army, after all, isn't made up of rootless, robotic "universal soldiers," but men and women who are deeply rooted within our communities. Indeed, that very rootedness may help explain their remarkable staying power over the last eight years. Sooner or later, however, such roots will be cut if we continue to send them on lost causes.
Consider our latest "surge": What will happen to our Army if its augmented presence only alienates Afghans further? What if it ends up strengthening Taliban recruitment efforts and prolonging the war instead of shortening it? What if our enemies simply choose to wait us out? Are we truly prepared to stay for a decade, or even decades, more?
Prolonging a stalemated war will, in fact, only mean more hurt for both Afghans and Americans. The hurt to Afghans will undoubtedly be worse, for their homes are the battlefield, but our own hurt shouldn't be underestimated. More broken bodies and shattered minds. More echoes of the horrifying violence that accompanies war.
To paraphrase William Faulkner on history's relationship to the past: Even when war is officially declared over, it's not dead. It's not even past. The horrors of war endure in the hearts and minds of the people who experience them, and they dwell, to some degree, in the collective consciousness of us all.
Are we willing, then, to sit and watch as our military strives to endure what may ultimately prove unendurable? Do we really want to risk returning to the hollow army of the mid-1970s, reeling from defeat in Vietnam, that judged the American public numb to its service and sacrifices?
What if, upon returning to the American "homeland," whether in 2012 or 2052, an exhausted, embittered, and demoralized army again judges us and finds us even more wanting? What if, as in the 1970s, some alienated soldiers come to see the public as treacherous backstabbers, with all the potential dangers that entails?
As we embrace policies and strategies that erode our army, we risk more than a weakened military; we risk breeding resentments and recriminations that could lead to a future domestic surge of militant nationalism of our very own, conceivably imperiling the foundations of our democracy.
And that's a peril -- and a price -- too terrible to contemplate.
- Posted in




75 Comments so far
Show AllCall the Unka 'Bomb Bunka at the Casa Blanca buck stop, Washington!
Wasted troops are part of the grand scheme to hand more boatloads of taxpayer money to private contractors who can take part of that money and contribute it to the campaigns of politicians who will assure that the amount of taxpayer money being handed over to private contractors keeps increasing.
The American way!
And since the mercs come from the ranks of the military, firms like Blackwater even get the taxpayers to fund the training of their workforce
The severe degradation of our military does seem to be by design.
Who would benefit from this? Who would see opportunity in the U.S. being militarily so worn down a few years from now as to be ill equipped to effectively even defend itself?
What behind-the-scenes group of criminally insane war criminals do we know of just so happens to wield immense influence over U.S. foreign policy and military decisions?
Who are all the Rex-84 detention camps meant for? Is this really only about money? Maybe, and then again, maybe not.
Yes, those in the military are being used and abused. This then begs the question as to whether the robots [i.e. the soldiers] will continue to allow themselves to be used by the military or will they finally join the GI movement and say NO to American imperialism. The soldiers of today should acknowledge that they did not leave their brains behind in the civilian world. They have the ability, as the
German playwright Bertolt Brecht pointed out in one of his poems, to do that which the military is most in fear of, and that is to think by not going along with the program. Unfortunately, it appears that this generation is much too compliant as compared to that generation of the military which said NO to American imperialism during the Vietnam War.
I used to oppose conscription but after watching the events of the last few years my thoughts have turned 180 degrees.I now feel that a draft with no exceptions for the rich( I know fat chance) would if not prevent wars at least shorten them. Even if the powerful exempt their sons and daughters what is left of the middle class would snap out of their slumber. It was the fact that the middle class saw their sons being shipped off to die more than anything else that shaped opposition to the Vietnam war
The Mad Loon
I think a better idea would be to implement what one of my buttons proclaims:
"Draft the Rich-It's Their War".
The Mad Loon
Reconsider about a draft.
Facing a draft is not exactly fair to anyone. In the face of a war like WW2 where our country is fighting for its life, sure.
For Viet Nam it only forced kids that didn't believe in the war to run, leave their families and their country. It also confused them with the few cowards that ran because they were simply afraid.
It forced people into the service that didn't believe in the war but would not deny the country service. And you are correct, some rich cowards did duck service.
Afgahnistan and Iraq are little different in this regard except that our reserves are comitted time after time after time. Our standing army is too small.
A volunteer service gets around all these bad things and its not a bad idea if the size is appropriate.
The problem with a volunteer army is that it lets folks off the hook. They just shrug and say that the soldiers volunteered and if they didn't want to fight they shouldn't have joined up in the first place.Since the poor are over represented in todays military too few are directly affected to make for an effective anti war movement.True a draft can not ever be trully fair because the elite will always find a way to if not to avoid the draft then to at least make sure their children get safe postings.
I didn't come to this view easily but as posted before I have come to believe that a conscript military forces the ruling elite to be just a little more circumspect when sending our sons and daughters off to fight.
Of course if our masters would stop starting unjust wars (in my 50 yrs on this planet they have all been unjust)we wouldn't need to have this debate.
Your last paragraph is very true. Don't get us into these stupid needless wars and the problem is solved.
My view, formed as a draftee, is that a draft sucks. Mama I didn't want to go, but I had no choice. And no I couldn't refuse to go and let someone else go in my place.
With a volunteer army you don't have that problem, if you volunteered you understand what you are volunteering for and what your responsibilities are and that you no longer live in a democracy.
And if you noticed the folks that sent these kids into this war and the ones keeping them there have never served their country and faced an enemy.
The sad truth is that neither option is a good one.
Lets not forget that due to the dishonest tactics used by recruiters many didn't trully understand what they were signing up for, which is very scary considering that they live in the most militatistic nation on the planet. Many more joined because of poverty and/or lack of other options which to me is a back door draft and just as egregous as the sham draft of the Vietnam era
The time has come to start war crimes tribunals of western leaders in the hope of detering future North American despots from starting illegal wars at least for a time
Recruiters are the biggest con artists of our time!
God, war surely is pure insanity.
Its worse than that, much worse.
An excellent, though depressing, article.
I too have mixed emotions about the draft.
In about five years the same people who are cheerleaders for this war will be demanding the death penalty for some insane vet who killed a a dozen or more people.
Uh, they started doing that 5 weeks (or so) ago, with the Fort Hood shooting.
The goal of the US military in the DAFT war is to prevent future terrorism.
- "[the] lethal threat of roadside bombs and sniper fire" -
Ordinary soldiers are targets. Once future terrorists have become terrorists (by shooting a soldier, e.g.), they can then be eliminated (often by remote-controlled machines, the real killers).
I repeat, being stuck in the DAFT war means that US soldiers will be targets. That is their mission, in order to identify the enemy in our insane and DAFT war.
I again suggest that we end this war.
Locust what is that congressional bill number that authorizes all these invasions?
But back to robots, there will be a time or point when the robots will be what the military will thinks is capable of replacing the 'boots on the ground' but that will have to be when enough are built to handle the people in this country.
Years ago, I thought that it would be better to be wary of robotics and automation and goddamn it, if that ain't so.
Sorry double post
Some moron playing a video game thousands of miles from the front is less resistant to killing innocents than some grunt on the front lines.
Nobody is up to this Sisyphusian task. Now NATO is asking the Russians for help in Afghanistan. Maybe they will send the Mujahideen Stinger missiles like we did.
Want to see a monstrous website? Here:
http://www.goarmy.com
I was raised in the U.S. Army, and learned they seek out the youngest people they can, when it's easiest to break them down and rebuild them into units that will kill and die on command ("Kill Gooks!" or now "Kill Ragheads!"). They appeal to poorer elements of society. You never see their inane little bios that say "He went to Exeter and Yale and always wanted to wear the uniform ...".
There is nothing more misnamed in the U.S. than the Department of "Defense". War is our best growth industry, so that is why we have military "presence" in 120 countries and a military budget larger than the earths other 195 countries combined. If there is any young man you love ... a son, a brother, whatever ... set aside a fund. When the military comes for him with this bullshit about "Freedom isn't free", put him on a plane for Canada, Sweden or Timbuktu ... anywhere the US military can't get their goddamned hands on him.
" There is nothing more misnamed in the U.S. than our Department of Defense". True. It should be renamed what it was called in the 1800's : THE DEPARTMENT OF WAR! Or maybe it should be called: The Department of Defense of the MIC. While we are at it, the F.B.I. building, in D.C. should have that fascist, Edgar Hoovers name removed from it. How about: Full of Baloney Institute or Full of BS. Institute!
Just before the Iraq war started (when it was inevitable that it would) I e-mailed the DOD asking if there were plans to re-name it the Department of Offense.
I actually got a polite reply something like: "There are no plans at this time to ..."
Cutting the US "defense" budget by 15% would leave our treasury able to fund healthcare, medicare, social security, you name it. Bring all our troops home from the "wars" and close all of our overseas bases - they are an expensive anachronism we no longer need and can no longer afford. Cut Defense by 15%!
Before these wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the US was STILL spending more then the rest of the world combined on its Military.
Madeline Albright suggested it a waste to spend all that money on a Military unless it was used.
This is not an issue of too many deployments and wearing out the troops. It is an issue of too great a focus of a nations resources on Militarism and arms and violence as the rest of the country hollowed out to support it.
Would William J Astore Lt Colonel retired support cutting spending on the Military to a maximum of 100 billion a year or is he one of these "Lets keep spending more on The Military but give the boys longer breaks between their killing missions" types?
In the 70s, I used to play Avalon Hill war games, Panzer Leader, Panzer Blitz, et al, with a ex- Army Vietnam helicopter gunner friend of mine. He would always play the German, I would play the hapless Russians in the early WWII scenarios.
Although I would always force less than a strategic victory from him and occasionally win, he used to rile at me for throwing countless troops(his enemy mind you) - there were a lot of Russians up against the Wehrmark - at the him haphazardly, sacrificing them for a victory.
It is only now that I realize that I am like our Senators and President and he represented troops on the ground.
Article fails to mention the impact that shredded and burnt babies have on a soldiers pysche.
Also when they realize they are killing resistance fighters.
The Mercenaries are guarding the soldiers precisely to prevent them from refusing to fight,and also killing their officiers, as they did in Vietnam.
50,000 USA soldiers died in Vietnam and more than 50,000 have committed suicide since then.
Read the other CD article that reveals how Obomber is ignoring pleas for Peace negotiations from almost all parties invovled.
"Do we really want to risk returning to the hollow army of the mid-1970s, reeling from defeat in Vietnam, that judged the American public numb to its service and sacrifices?"
Short answer: YES
At least we stayed out of major trouble for awhile after that.
"wasted troops"? Quite the contrary, suicides among the US military cut down on veteran health costs and in any case drones are the wave of the future for America. Didn't you get the memo? As Rumsfield said, and I haven't heard Obama contradict him, soldiers are fungible. Yeeeesh, I mean c'mon anyone with half a brain would find a way to leave the army and become a mercenary anyway.
...What are the odds that even if I put a disclaimer on this post, ironically challenged Americans won't comprehend it?
I expected better of you. Ironically or not, this is not a matter for hollow thoughts.
They aren't "my" troops. All they know is blind patriotism, killing, destroying, and collecting a paycheck. May they fight themselves into a stupor so deep that they won't come back. Hate to say it, but we'll probably be safer here without them. They'd turn on us at a drop of a dime anyway, and at some point, they probably will.
Moonpie
do you even know any soldiers? ever spoken to one?
any one that would wish what you seem to wish on another human being is disgusting, "May they fight themselves in to a stupor so deep they won't come back"
You are a sad and pathetic excuse for a human, and have no humanity.
The plain fact is that many in the military are some combination of religious and political fanatics who essentially fascists, and I really have a hard time in many cases feeling sorry for them first. Not everyone, but more than enough that I fear them instead of fearing the people of the Midlle East, which is (the latter case) hardly rational.
But the Blackwater types? Fascists who'd love a militarist state at home and would slash my throat in a second given the opportunity.
I say this incidentally as the son of a Vietnam combat vet.
My concerns are:
1) The civilian population of the attacked countries
2) The civilian population of this country which goes without so much in the way of basic necessities (shelter, healthcare, education and even food) because of what we spend on the military
3) The armed resistance of the attacked countries, who are in fact the "just war" actors of Obama's speech
4) The invading imperial army/attackers
The real 'freedom fighters' here are in the Middle East and the hell they've been through is 1000x what 'our' soldiers have been through. Afghanistan IS home for them. They don't get to "go home." The entire population of Iraq has lived with combat-level stress for 20 years. 20 YEARS - that's the entire life of many young combatants.
American troops are getting worn out? Y'know what - good. That's good for the planet, that's good for innocent people and it might be the only thing that grinds this mess to a halt.
This is excellent news for people of the World tired of fascist US empire!
The stresses on our troops will eventually lead to a collapse of the US effort to intervene on every continent of our choice. The sooner this occurs, the better for the country and for the troops who now pay such a high price. Hopefully, the US will not revert to a mindless isolationism, but instead accept a more limited but responsible role in the world.
I look forward the day when the US becomes "a second rate power" like France, which spends 2.3% of GDP vs. US 4.6% of a far larger GDP. France maintains a reasonable defense, including nuclear, and fulfills a limited international commitment to allies, particularly in Africa but also has 2000 troops in Afghganistan. And the French enjoy a very nice standard of living, plus national health care.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
This leaves off the military picture here.
Secret police
http://www.opednews.com/articles/A-Secret-Police-in-America-by-Trutha-Diver-091209-396.html
Obama Orders 1 Million US Troops to Prepare for Civil War
Posted by Europe on Nov 28, 2009 | 373 Comments
http://www.eutimes.net/2009/11/obama-orders-1-million-us-troops-to-prepare-for-civil-war/
Russian Military Analysts are reporting to Prime Minister Putin that US President Barack Obama has issued orders to his Northern Command’s (USNORTHCOM) top leader, US Air Force General Gene Renuart, to “begin immediately” increasing his military forces to 1 million troops by January 30, 2010, in what these reports warn is an expected outbreak of civil war within the United States before the end of winter.
According to these reports, Obama has had over these past weeks “numerous” meetings with his war council about how best to manage the expected implosion of his Nations banking system while at the same time attempting to keep the United States military hegemony over the World in what Russian Military Analysts state is a “last ditch gambit” whose success is “far from certain”.
And often they've seen things they wish they'd never seen.
And often they've seen things they wish they'd never seen.
And often they've seen things they wish they'd never seen.
WHY? Because they believes the lies the recruiters tell them.
If things were as the people who post here seem to think they are would not these Soldiers have already rounded you up and taken you to the camps?
If there were a secret police do you not think that already you are silenced?
and then what of compassion?
no one seems here to have any
Gandhi's curse is on all of you; "we become what we hate"
Seventy or so Fusion Centers. No secret.
FEMA camps. No secret.
NorthCom. No secret.
Compassion includes no War or Torture.
Is it not convienent for everyone to state their politics in public?
Is it a good place for an "agent provacatuer?
where are these camps, and what are your sources of information as to what they will be used for?
I hope you can convince the taliban to have compassion then.
any one who has read my posts knows I am a Soldier in the US Army. I go to Afghanistan, I go to Iraq, no agent provocateur , your rights to post are won by others like me sweat and blood.
People come to these boards and complain and bemoan their state and the state of their State but they never do anything else.
Do you even know what a fusion center is?
It is bull to repeat the old saw that noble warriors like you have preserved the right of spoiled jerks like us to post their opinions. That may have been true of WW II, but no soldier, no sacrifice, no "enemy" slain since then has had any impact on preserving my freedom. In fact, the quite the opposite is true. Thank you for your service, but don't try to sell me your twisted rationale.
your welcome
you might be surprised though
have some fun
do a web search on 'ring tone ban taliban' you might find a very interesting interpretation of lack of 1st amendment rights.
Whom has the twisted rationale? You believe that if these kids weren't there you'd retain your freedoms. That every ones your friend? That no one would ever attack you or this country because they are such good people?
Using that thinking, we don't need the police do we?
Don't confuse Iraq, Afghanistan and Viet Nam and their like for what you just said.
No one is attacking Switzerland now have they for several hundred years.
You do not need to bomb Libya and Iraq and Vietnam to preserve "Liberty and freedom" and it is the 600 billion dollar a year Military and the Patrito Act and the Military Commissions act and Military prisons in Cuba and Bagram that are doing the most to TAKE AWAY YOUR FREEDOMS.
I suggest YOU read what the framers of your constitution said about a standing Military and how it would be the greatest threat to "Freedom and Liberty"
>>In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.
>>Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
Serving in todays US Military does not defend AQNYONES FREEDOM.
Just ask the 2 million plus Vietnamese killed by US "Freedom Fighters".
And your creating phony enemy after phony enemy is no more credible then Ronald Reagan warning of a 2 million man army marching from Nicaragua to the Borders of the USA.
All China has to do to shut down the USA is stop lending them money. They do not have to invade, and your precious Military can do NOTHING to stop such.
Sioux Rose
GW NORTH: Excellent post. I dated a fellow that went off to the marines when we were both college students. He came back from boot camp on leave and said something I thought was a joke. It was clear to me that he had become brainwashed. His knee-jerk patriotism seemed cliche to me. And I believe that is the ATTITUDE of those to whom you were directing your comments. They CANNOT get it, for to face the truth is to place a hole in the entire fabric of their personal lives, and much that they have lived for and identified with.
HENRY: You have heard me say that I'd be "Okay" with a 75% cut to our military. There is a "Catch-22" now at work, and that is, having done such an effective job of selling our weapons to other lands, now there IS a chance we could be attacked. In addition, due to America's ridiculously muscular foreign policy, we have MADE enemies where few previously existed. Such actions have in many ways necessitated the need for an active defense/military.
If the real purpose of American diplomacy was to win hearts and minds, the violent machinery of war would not follow America's footprint into other lands where our soldiers are NOT invited. The US operates like a slum landlord presuming every item in the apartment complex (i.e. world) belongs to said landlord and can be taken at will.
Since most nations really do mind their own buisness and wish the US would do likewise, the idiotic premise that today's soldiers are fighting to preserve my liberties is a sham. As GW NORTH pointed out, since 911 (which I believe was an inside job, however the NEXT event will not be) American civil liberties have been vastly reduced. One million on the no-fly list, surveillance of emails and phone conversations, no longer the sure presumption of innocence, or a guaranteed right to a fair/speedy trial, our dollars becoming worthless, and yet this measure of domestic wealth is about to be extorted from us to finance big insurance companies that play fast and loose with American lives. The entire American dream has become a nightmare for far too many and in my view, militarism (as in Mars rules) coupled with Mammon (the love of money) are front and center as causative factors to this grotesque debacle.
The greatest threat to the Liberty of US Citizens is the Government of the United States of America. The US Military has caused more of those freedoms to erode then has the Chinese Military.
The people that shout the loudest "we are here to defend your freedoms" tend to be the ones that are taking it away.
You are quite right . Authoritarians CAN NOT GET IT.
Their jingoism and refusal to see the truth is infatilism taken to an extreme. It like the child who can never give up the soother even though the soother provides NO NOurishment.
If the USA had a military 1/10th of its size with some 60 billion spent on it rather then 600 billion plus, Americans would be FREER and have MORE Liberty. They would not have to borrow money from China. They would not need Oil from Saudi Arabia. They would be free of debt.
The China's and the Russia's of the world are no Military threat to the USA. They have problems enough defending their own territories. Russia as example has some 150 million to defend the largest Country on the globe. They had to allow much of what was under the banner of the USSR leave to become independent states because they could no possibly defend those territories YET people to this day insist they are a threat to Western Europe.
They can barely hold Chechnya yet without the USA to defend them we are to believe they would invade the 400 million strong EU?
China dwarfs Vietnam yet that country spanked the Chinese soundly in 1979 and through the 1980s . China ran into huge LOGISTICAL problems attacking a country on her border yet we are somehow to believe they can pose a threat to the territory of the United States?
It simply irrational to believe such nonsense . It is as irrational as the fellow who covered his house in plastic because of warnings Saddam Hussein was going to launch a chemical attack against Cities on the east Coast of the USA.
This remains a truth. The US Government, with its Federal Agents, Its Police , its Military and its National guard, killed more US Civilians inside the United States then the Military of North Vietnam did through that war. They too claimed at the time they were doing this to "defend American Liberty".
"The greatest threat to the Liberty of US Citizens is the Government of the United States of America."
Actually as it stands now, we may be in agreement on this.
Russia is little threat to us, China most certainly is. But I would point out to you that if they did invade the EU, I'm curious to know what you think the EU could do about it? I can tell you...not much.
You forget that Chechnya was part of the old soviet union so the fights internally are militarily even so to speak.