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The Missing Link From Killeen to Kabul
The dead at Fort Hood had not even been laid to rest when their massacre became yet another political battle cry for the self-proclaimed patriots of the American right.
Their verdict was unambiguous: Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, an American-born psychiatrist of Palestinian parentage who sent e-mail to a radical imam, was a terrorist. And he did not act alone. His co-conspirators included our military brass, the Defense Department, the F.B.I., the Walter Reed Army Medical Center, the Joint Terrorism Task Force and, of course, the liberal media and the Obama administration. All these institutions had failed to heed the warning signs raised by Hasan's behavior and activities because they are blinded by political correctness toward Muslims, too eager to portray criminals as sympathetic victims of social injustice, and too cowardly to call out evil when it strikes 42 innocents in cold blood.
The invective aimed at these heinous P.C. pantywaists nearly matched that aimed at Hasan. Joe Lieberman announced hearings to investigate the Army for its dereliction of duty on homeland security. Peter Hoekstra, the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, vowed to unmask cover-ups in the White House and at the C.I.A. The Weekly Standard blog published a broadside damning the F.B.I. for neglecting the "broader terrorist plot" of which Hasan was only one of the connected dots. Jerome Corsi, the major-domo of the successful Swift-boating of John Kerry, unearthed what he said was proof that Hasan had advised President Obama during the transition.
William Bennett excoriated soft military leaders like Gen. George Casey Jr., the Army chief of staff, who had stood up for diversity and fretted openly about a backlash against Muslim soldiers in his ranks. "Blind diversity" that embraces Islam "equals death," wrote Michelle Malkin. "There is a powerful case to be made that Islamic extremism is not some fringe phenomenon but part of the mainstream of Islamic life around the world," wrote the columnist Jonah Goldberg. Islam is "not a religion," declared the irrepressible Pat Robertson, but "a violent political system bent on the overthrow of the governments of the world."
As a snapshot of where a chunk of the country stands right now, these reactions to the Fort Hood bloodbath could not be more definitive. And it's quite possible that some of what this crowd says is right - not about Islam in general, but about the systemic failure to stop a homicidal maniac like Hasan in particular. Whether he was an actual terrorist or an unfathomable mass murderer merely dabbling in jihadist ideas, the repeated red flags during his Army career illuminate a pattern of lapses in America's national security. Whether those indicators were ignored because of political correctness, bureaucratic dysfunction, sheer incompetence or some hybrid thereof is still unclear, but, whichever, the system failed.
Yet the mass murder at Fort Hood didn't happen in isolation. It unfolded against the backdrop of Obama's final lap of decision-making about Afghanistan. For all the right's jeremiads, its own brand of political correctness kept it from connecting two crucial dots: how our failing war against terrorists in Afghanistan might relate to our failure to stop a supposed terrorist attack at home. Most of those who decried the Army's blindness to Hasan's threat are strong proponents of sending more troops into our longest war. That they didn't mention Afghanistan while attacking the entire American intelligence and defense apparatus in charge of that war may be the most telling revelation of this whole debate.
The reason they didn't is obvious enough. Their screeds about the Hasan case are completely at odds with both the Afghanistan policy they endorse and the leadership that must execute that policy, including Gen. Stanley McChrystal. These hawks, all demanding that Obama act on McChrystal's proposals immediately, do not seem to have read his strategy assessment for Afghanistan or the many press interviews he gave as it leaked out. If they had, they'd discover that the whole thrust of his counterinsurgency pitch is to befriend and win the support of the Afghan population - i.e., Muslims. The "key to success," the general wrote in his brief to the president, will be "strong personal relationships forged between security forces and local populations."
McChrystal thinks we might even jolly up those Muslims who historically and openly hate America. "I don't think much of the Taliban are ideologically driven," he told Dexter Filkins of The Times. "In my view their past is not important. Some people say, ‘Well, they have blood on their hands.' I'd say, ‘So do a lot of people.' I think we focus on future behavior."
Whether we could win those hearts and minds is, arguably, an open question - though it's an objective that would require a partner other than Hamid Karzai and many more troops than even McChrystal is asking for (or America presently has). But to say that McChrystal's optimistic - dare one say politically correct? - view of Muslim pliability doesn't square with that of America's hawks is the understatement of the decade.
As their Fort Hood rhetoric made clear, McChrystal's most vehement partisans don't trust American Muslims, let alone those of the Taliban, no matter how earnestly the general may argue that they can be won over by our troops' friendliness (or bribes). If, as the right has it, our Army cannot be trusted to recognize a Hasan in its own ranks, then how will it figure out who the "good" Muslims will be as we try to build a "stable" state (whatever "stable" means) in a country that has never had a functioning central government? If our troops can't be protected from seemingly friendly Muslim American brethren in Killeen, Tex., what are the odds of survival for the 40,000 more troops the hawks want to deploy to Kabul and sinkholes beyond?
About the only prominent voice among the liberal-bashing, Obama-loathing right who has noted this gaping contradiction is Mark Steyn of National Review. "Members of the best trained, best equipped fighting force on the planet" were "gunned down by a guy who said a few goofy things no one took seriously," he wrote. "And that's the problem: America has the best troops and fiercest firepower, but no strategy for throttling the ideology that drives the enemy - in Afghanistan and in Texas." You have to applaud Steyn's rare intellectual consistency within his camp. One imagines that he does not buy the notion that our Army, however brilliant, has a shot at building "strong personal relationships" with a population that often regards us as occupiers and infidels.
In a week of horrific news, it was good to hear at the end of it that Obama is dissatisfied with the four Afghanistan options he has been weighing so far. The more time he deliberates, the more he is learning that he's on a fool's errand with no exit. After Karzai was spared a runoff last month and declared the winner of the fraud-infested August "election," Obama demanded that he address his government's corruption as a price for American support. Only days later the Afghan president mocked the American president by parading his most tainted cronies on camera and granting an interview to PBS's "NewsHour" devoted to spewing his contempt for his American benefactors.
Matthew Hoh, a former Marine and, until recently, a State Department official in Afghanistan, could be found on MSNBC on Thursday once again asking the question no war advocate can answer, "Do you want Americans fighting and dying for the Karzai regime?" Hoh quit his post on principle in September despite the urging of colleagues, including our ambassador there, Karl W. Eikenberry, that he stay and fight over war policy from the inside. But Hoh had lost confidence in our strategy and would not retract his resignation. Now he has been implicitly seconded by Eikenberry himself. Last week we learned that the ambassador, a retired general who had been the top American military commander in Afghanistan as recently as 2007, had sent two cables to Obama urging caution about sending more troops.
We don't know everything in those cables. What we do know is that American intelligence continues to say that fewer than 100 Qaeda operatives can still be found in Afghanistan. We also know that the Taliban, which are currently estimated to number in the tens of thousands, can't be eliminated. As McChrystal put it to Filkins, there is no "finite number" of Taliban, so there's no way to vanquish them. Hence his counterinsurgency alternative, which could take decades, costing untold billions and countless lives.
Perhaps those on the right are correct about Hasan, and he is just one cog in an apocalyptic jihadist plot that has infiltrated our armed forces. If so, then they have an obligation to explain how pouring more troops into Afghanistan would have stopped Hasan from plotting in Killeen. Don't hold your breath. If we have learned anything concrete so far from the massacre at Fort Hood, it's that our hawks, for all their certitude, are as utterly confused as the rest of us about who it is we're fighting in Afghanistan and to what end.
- Posted in
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56 Comments so far
Show AllI was talking with a patriot the other day and he started yammering about Hasan the terrorist. I pointed out that he was American born, part of the patriot machine. A member of the US Army no less. He is a terrorist because his skin isn't white. Then I started talking about Timothy McVeigh.
I'm not trying to correct this patriot's ignorance, I just needed to shut him up. It worked.
No great surprise that our right wing brethren are pouring hatred, racism, fear and paranoia on this incident. That's the game they play. Expect yellow cake evidence that Hasan had terrorist ties.
"Expect yellow cake evidence that Hasan had terrorist ties."
He was a member of the US Army - need more evidence?
vdb-- there's no way to enforce this, but IMO Lefty owes you a "Touché!"
· Yr Obd't Servant
I resent Rich's derogratory comments in describing Kabul as a sinkhole and denigrating Afghanistan which was a viable,valid, universally recognized and peaceful Nation State for 100 years prior to the USA arming rebelling Landlords and Foundamentalists mid 1970's.
Afghanistan is a much more culturally unified than either Pakistan or India, and has been a Nation State twice as long.
No one questioned Afghanistans viability as a Nation State until the USA started to spew it's post invasion neo colonial justifications.
I find a confederation of tribes forming a Nation State more viable for life than a corporate dictatorship.
MaChrystal idea of a close relationship is a gun to any resistors head.
Curious how Lieberman is the name of one of the worst politicians in both israel and the USA.
Hasan wished to leave the Army but the Army being desperate for bodies, especially shrinks, forced him to remain.
I logically and intuitively suspect that the Hoodlum massacre was direct blowback from the House of Gangsters anti-Goldman Report resolution.
Glenn Ford
I think you come pretty close to the truth if not actually hitting the nail on the head. I think that it is quite conceivable that Hasan, especially after interviewing and counseling soldiers who had returned from the Middle East, realized that ending up in Afghanistan and Iraq was not a cause worth dying for. David Brooks, in a recent column, derided this as a legitimate reason, but I think that this should not be so easily dismissed. It is quite conceivable, after speaking to these soldiers, that Hasan snapped after confronting the fact that he was going to be used as cannon fodder by his less than caring government. If only he could have joined the IVAW as a better way of expressing his discontent concerning U.S. policies in the Middle East.
This is a fake war imho.
It was motivated by a CEO Mafia who desired cheap labor in India, but not enough cheap energy could be shipped in apparently, so they fancied a pipeline from the oil and gas rich Caspian Sea, through Afghanistan to India. But now it's turned into a gravy train for the military Industrial Complex so it's never going to end. Forty percent of the casualties are "friendly fire" according to "Where Men Seek Glory" by Jon Krakauer. So we're fighting ourselves in the dark so that the new war economy won't fail. This is why I think John McCain said he expected us to remain there for one-hundred years. Al Quieda is the same as WMD's: There really aren't any. If there are, we made em'. If we haven't made em' yet, the Predator Drones will.
Here's apparently how you make em: Leave large piles of Ammo and guns unguarded next to a population you've been abusing. This happened in Bagdad, I suspect it happens in Gaza as well (except you can substitute little unguided bottle rockets for guns in Gaza.)
And the Result? Vietnam-type "Flashbacks" where the guys shooting their own and innocent civilians finally snap. And it's going to get worse: 22 percent real unemployment is waiting for the lads when they get back, since all of our jobs were shipped to India and China. The only jobs available are government or subcontractor jobs producing nothing but misery for the people.
The only conclusion I can draw is that human life really just has no value this century. And if that's the attitude this government has "over there", it's a safe bet: that's how they really feel about their own citizens over here. It's a matter of time before these very same techniques are employed in every town in the USA.
TJ
""A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to Liberty. The means of defence against foreign danger,have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending,have enslaved the people." - James Madison Speech at the Constitutional Convention - June 19, 1787
Malkin, Goldberg and Robertson represent a viewpoint shared by maybe 20% of the country.
Yet, due to reasons of ownership and lack of regulation the far right-wing is allowed to shape the national discussion on virtually every controversial story.
If their access to the media was proportional to their size they'd be drowned out in a sea of more rational and moderate voices.
These bile filled hate-mongers believe only in Christian Supremacy and never-ending war.
The Hasan case is just another opportunity to spray the country with their poisonous ideology.
Our country is being hijacked from the real conversation we should be having: The ravages of unending war.
The longer we're delayed from having that debate the more Hasans we'll undoubtedly suffer.
>>Malkin, Goldberg and Robertson represent a viewpoint shared by maybe 20% of the country.
I don't agree. I suspect it is just the opposite. My ballpark is that 80% of Americans hold close to their hearts "Islamic terrorist fear" as peddled by the MSM in this country. You underestimate the enemy and the manipulations they are performing on American society.
I think if you listed all the beliefs and positions the far-right has railed about for the last 30 years perhaps 1 in 5 Americans would identify with them.
That was basically George Bush's approval rating at the end of his presidency, 20%, when the country had seen and experienced everything he and the far-right had to offer.
The media is often successful in whipping up fear immediately after a major story but the fear soon dissipates.
Most people simply want a government of prudent moderation, not one of endless war, hatred of the other and tax cuts for the elite.
Sioux Rose
CYGNUS: I want to applaud your incisive reasoning & analysis. Your focus on how the media shapes consent where it would not exist were FACTS openly disseminated throughout the mainstream media is admirable, wise, and right on! Thank you for your many intelligent posts.
Thanks for your effusive praise.
If only the many smart viewpoints expressed in the comments at CD had access to the mainstream of American discussion we'd be a much better country.
"...utterly confused..."
.
So the American people are confused? Please, Mr. Rich, it is not polite to brag. Granted, your style is slick, but you have to concede that the confusion has been a group effort.
.
The war in Afghanistan is for control of fossil fuels and their tranport routes. The U.S. will stay to keep other powers out--no matter how bad it gets.
.
If you don't like war, dismantle the autosprawl system.
http://freepublictransit.org
guys and gals, help me here. i protested the war in iraq openly, right down here in dixieland. didn't go over too well with a lot of folks, as you might guess. i've openly criticized israel, admire noam chomsky, and am about to organize protests against our involvement in afghanistan. yet, there is something that has bothered me lately, and that is, why did tens of thousands of our islamic brethren take to the streets to demand censorship of danish cartoons? the crowds across the world sometimes turned into mobs. some were killed. and in iraq, is there not a fatwah against gays by sistani? i mean, that's the equivalent of an ecclesiastical death warrant! and i've always been troubled by khomeini's fatwah against rushdie for his book "satanic verses". the guy couldn't show his face for years, and i think one of his publishers was murdered. no one likes his religion demeaned, but we live in a secular and material and scientific world now. we simply can't kill people for what we think is heresy. i need to know if islam will accept that today's world is simply a marketplace of ideas and that we punish acts, not thoughts or mere expressions of an ideology. i know the us corporate structure discriminates against socialists in their hiring, but no one gets flayed or threatened. is this something we can discuss?
After WW1 was ended by the Russian revolution, U.S. and European powers focused on crushing communism. Controlling oil was critical. Movements in the oil areas that looked even slightly socialist were crushed. But what to replace them? The answer: fundamentalist religion and/or right-wing dictatorship. Now, with the rise of China, some of these puppets need no longer bow to the Western powers, but the people still are saddled with the leaders and philosophies that were provided them.
.
There are a lot of people, like you, struggling for a better world. You will rarely find them in the main stream media.
.
Pat Robertson is always there to prove just saying things off the top of one's head is more fun than anything. Actually, I think he's an inspiration: someone that rich and powerful who jockeyed himself into position despite being batshit crazy.
Rev. Comparative Religion Robertson is wrong about Islam being out to rule the world. Dr. Nutcase who shot up Kileen really was a solo case. He was in contact with the imam in Yemen when he should have been in contact with the imam in Kileen. But that clergyman wouldn't have told him what he wanted to hear. The Kileen imam would have told him to shut up and be a good soldier.
Ans soit goes:
PTSD
PAIN, always the pain in the heart, the mind, and oh1 so much of the pain in the Soul! How is one to rid self of the one experience that will eat at a body from the inside out and leave a shell to walk around with this psychological cancer eating away at the very reason for living? To kill another for what the heart knows is not a valid justification will take the body and eat at it like a voracious animal and, yet, ask for some mercy and offer it’s suffering as penance for this unnatural deed and the Soul weeps for all who died and for the heart that killed. Post indeed; a pillar and a post to madness
TEARS, how many, how many will it take for the peace, the peace that a home should bring and does not? How can a pain in the heart move the body to react with an outward danger to any that would be a friend, or lover, or helper, or any stranger? How is a war for lucre any more than a common criminal does when murder is done in the stealing of goods belonging to an other peoples or nations? The warrior and the politician will say nay, nay it is for the safety of all that others must die; weep not for the “others” for they are not worthy of any tears! The ears hear, the mind processes but the heart hurts and the body will know while the Soul weeps. Trauma is no more than a word for a spiritual death watch.
SORROW; that sorrow which cries out! Cries out to anything, anyone that would relieve or cut out that which presses on the heart; simulating a heart attack in its total absorbs ion of this physical entity called sorrow and the mind; the mind that will try to rationalize what is happening and finds itself where there is no up or down, no logical next step to put body, mind and Soul back to a functional mode and get on with a life in a world that will be forever changed and the Soul weeps. Stress; in this context is a cover up; like telling someone who has a headache take two aspirin and call me in the morning.
DAMNED; is this not more appropriate, if anything is appropiate, for a human being that exists in a world that increasingly fades to grays and blacks while most around this entity have no clue of the pain, the suffering, the sorrow? Did I ever mention the guilt that is ever present and no one will ever talk about? Because then it would mean that it is wrong, so terribly wrong to have these soldiers out there killing and maiming other peoples that have no wish for their presence and are caught in a political and ideological struggle that is motivated by pure greed and the heart, the mind and the Soul that finally gets that fact will know that for all of their causes there will be effects and PTSD is one effect. Disorder; like talking about an unruly school room full of kids.
Tony
that was real.
The father of the Prodigal stood outside his home, out in the road watching and waiting for his son to appear. Many nights he stood there, waiting, and when his son appeared he ran to him, before his son even had time to get the words out, "I'm sorry" his father ran to him.
That's God, running to us before we even get the words out, when we have simply turned, returned, to Him.
He runs to forgive us. The hardest part is forgiving ourselves. For that we have to give up our selves, our self-judgement, and accept Love.
Bless you.
I'm so tired of "political correctness" being used as a reason why this massacre happened.
Hasan wanted out of the military. I seriously doubt he would have put up a fuss if he were kicked out, nor would there have been any outcry.
Personally, I think he was allowed to stay in the military because our elites needed another incident to justify the continuation of the Terror War and all that comes with it.
Please, this is a no-brainer. The Right is happy now. They love that this happened. It just gives them another excuse to keep sending our youth to die physically and spiritually while pummeling innocent people for ceaseless war and endless, toxic lucre.
Lets find a negative term to replace the word "elites" with.
I think "ruling class" works pretty well
Drooling class?
How about "tories?"
Might strike a cord with the general population. Historically, Tory has always meant Ruling Classes: Royalty (nepotism) and Nobility (inheritance wealth) instead of Democracy. Alternatively, Jefferson used also used words like Monocrats, Monarchists and Consolidators to identify the enemies of Democratic rule by the people.
Here are excerpts from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tories
Toryism is a traditionalist political philosophy, which grew out of the Cavalier faction in the Wars of the Three Kingdoms. It is most prominent in Great Britain, but also features in some parts of The Commonwealth — particularly in Canada. Historically it also had exponents in former parts of the British Empire, for instance the Loyalists of British North America who sided with Britain and Crown during the Revolutionary War. The Tory ethos can be summed up with the phrase God, King and Country. Tories advocate monarchism, are usually of a High Church Anglican or Recusant Catholic religious heritage and opposed to the radical liberalism of the Whig faction. Some call their stance counter-revolutionary, neo-feudal and medievalist.
Canada
The term was used to designate the pre-Confederation British ruling classes of Upper Canada and Lower Canada, known as the Family Compact and the Château Clique, an elite within the governing classes, and often members within a section of society known as the United Empire Loyalists.
In post-Confederation Canada the terms "Red Tory" and "Blue Tory" have long been used to describe the two wings of the Conservative and previously the Progressive Conservative (PC) parties. The diadic tensions originally arose out of the 1854 political union of British-Canadian Tories, French-Canadian traditionalists, and the monarchist and loyalist leaning sections of the emerging commercial classes at the time - many of whom were uncomfortable with the pro-American and annexationist tendencies within the liberal Grits. Tory strength and prominence in the political culture was a feature of life in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Ontario, and Manitoba.
American Revolution
Before the Revolutionary War, the founders of Anglican and Catholic colonies were generally well disposed towards the Stuart dynasty. Their affections were alienated by a new, foreign dynasty which seemed to little know or care for the Tudor-Stuart legacy in the New World. Those who founded the Puritan colonies of New England were Cromwellians and Orangists. It is interesting to note the chief allies of the American Patriots were Whigs such as Charles James Fox and Charles Lennox, 3rd Duke of Richmond, each with direct ties to the House of Stuart and probably resentful of the Hanoverian succession—with its dire consequences in the old colonial empire in North America.
The term Tory or Loyalist was used in the American Revolution to describe those who remained loyal to the British Crown. Since early in the eighteenth century, Tory had described those upholding the right of the Kings over parliament. During the revolution, particularly after the Declaration of Independence in 1776 this use was extended to cover anyone who remained loyal to the British Crown. At the beginning of the war, it was estimated that as much as 40% of the American population were Tories.[5] Those Loyalists who settled in Canada, Nova Scotia, or the Bahamas after the American Revolution are known as United Empire Loyalists.
Tory was frequently used as a revolutionary's pejorative, e.g., a "Tory militia" was a militia unit which took the British side during the War. The British term Whig, referring to the anti-Tory political movement in England, had a much longer life in the American political discourse[citation needed], especially through the Whig Party.
[edit]Modern usage
In the United Kingdom, after 1832 and supersession of the Tory Party by the Conservative Party "Tory" has become shorthand for a member of the Conservative Party or for the party in general, sometimes but by no means always as a term of abuse. Many Conservatives still call themselves "Tory" to differentiate themselves from opponents. The name "Captain Tory" is given to staunch Conservative supporters in the North East of England.
In Canada, the term "Tory" may describe any member of the Conservative Party of Canada, its predecessor party the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada, or any similar affiliated conservative provincial party; the term is frequently used in contrast to "Grit", a shorthand for the Liberal Party of Canada.
In the United States, during the American Revolutionary War the term "Tory" was used to describe Loyalists, colonists who sided with Great Britain against the revolutionaries. The term was also used during the American Civil War, when supporters of the Confederacy extended the term to Southern Unionists. The Term has recently been used by the recently revived Modern Whig Party in the United States to describe Washington loyalists. Tory is sort of like a slang word for a loyalists.
[edit] UNQUOTE
Not sure about that new whig party: it pushes for a stronger national defense. Washington, Jefferson and Madison all warned us that the biggest enemy to Liberty was a large standing army.
What do you think about calling them BLOODY TORIES? Lot's of connections with the enemies of Freedom there.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
"...but "a violent political system bent on the overthrow of the governments of the world."
Wait - so The USA is an Islamic nation?
Oh, right - we don't overthrow governments of the world. That's what evil-doers do.
We liberate the peeps like good Christians... who also happen to have the mightiest, most God-blessed military on Earth...
RichM
John Kerry articulated this same argument during the 2004 election when he criticized Bush's role in Iraq while refraining from pointing out that the invasion and occupation [as in Afghanistan] was wrong from the very beginning. As a result of his attempt to placate both the right and the left, Kerry's timorous stance ended up, in all likelihood, costing him the presidential election.
kerry could hardly point that out, having voted for both the Afghan and the Iraq invasions.
that made him . . . . the blesser of two evils.
You're on a roll, v!
· Yr Obd't Servant
"If we have learned anything concrete so far from the massacre at Fort Hood, it's that our hawks, for all their certitude, are as utterly confused as the rest of us about who it is we're fighting in Afghanistan and to what end."
To libs, it's perfectly logical.
I believe this was PTSD by proxy.
Anything said by the Right about it is irrelevant.
Meanwhile, johnny u writes:
"... i need to know if islam will accept that today's world is simply a marketplace of ideas and that we punish acts, not thoughts or mere expressions of an ideology. i know the us corporate structure discriminates against socialists in their hiring, but no one gets flayed or threatened. is this something we can discuss?"
I, too, was extremely troubled by the Fatwah against Rushdie for what I thought was a beautiful book, and was troubled as well by the riots against the Danish cartoon, but I view these acts as more along political than religious lines. The Danish cartoon was an obvious provocation and they weren't gonna stand idly by and let it pass. As for Rushdie's transgressions that was a long time ago and I never did understand what his alleged crime was other than to speak truth.
I share the concern with the issue of the tolerance by Islam of the views of others, but I believe that we are awash in a sea of lies and propaganda and need to take an historical approach. For example, for centuries Jews resided in Baghdad with few problems. Spain under the Moors was far more tolerant of Jews (and Christians) than was Spain under the Catholic Inquisitions. In my eadings I have found religious intolerance to be more a political expedient than something based on "belief," in large part because the great religions preach tolerance, and for good reason; a life based on hatred is very hard to sustain. Cooperation is far more productive for everybody.
Again, to wax historical, it is good to be reminded that Iran had created a secular, democratically elected government after WWII under the leadership of Mossadegh until our CIA (Kermit Roosevelt) overthrew it in 1953 and reinstalled the mighty Shah. We installed a corrupt monarchy. For control of oil. More than half a century ago. Did we expect no blowback?
It reminds me of Viet Nam. During the buildup to World War II in the 1930s there was an obscure Vietnamese cook working in restaurants in Paris. His name? Ho Chi Minh. A Vietnamese Nationalist we incorrectly and tragically dubbed a Commie. The Ayatollah Khomeini also prepared his revolution from Paris. The French ain't dumb. (In fact, if you start to read up on the history leading up to the American Revolution, on the Indian Wars, you will find that more than half the treaties of the West were called "The Treaty of Paris.")
My own belief is that Islam is like other religions tolerant, but that when push comes to shove it invokes whatever ancient scripture is available to sanctify a political situation. It should also be remembered that Iran is run by Shi'ites while surrounded by Sunni Muslim countries with many of which the US is allied strategically. Most Americans have not the slightest idea what this means. I can offer a parallel within US history: there exist two major branches of Mormonism in the US, the Utah Brigham Young Church (the dominant Sunnis) versus the RLDS Independence MO church, which holds that the descendants of Joseph Smith are the proper heirs to the Urrim and the Thummim as opposed to the bureaucracy of the founding church. I remember many years ago when I approached the question of Mormonism with my great uncle, a Deacon in the RLDS and a professor at a major university, he declared the Utah church his "enemy." I saw this as an internecine war about which I knew absolutely nothing.
Anyone who thinks that Islam is about a War against the West just does not get it. The political undercurrents for local power and influence are far more direct as stimulus to action.
Think globally, act locally. All else will follow.
The "christians" who push this idea of Islamofascism are in it for the money. Instead of seeking American enlightenment about complex issues, they seek advantage based on our ignorance of history.
One more point. On the issue of "tribalism" in Afghanistan, one could do no harm by reading up on wiki's "Chickamauga Wars" and following the many threads into the likes of The Treaty of Greenville. We in America tend to think of "tribalism" in places like Afghanistan as somehow beneath us. People who are "tribal" are in our minds "lesser." Yet ask yourself, who is winning? Despite our vast technology and billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of well-armed soldiers, we lost in Viet Nam and we are repeating that mistake. We need to understand ourselves before we invade other nations (or territories).
Apologies for raising one final historical point: johnny u wrote: "i know the us corporate structure discriminates against socialists in their hiring, but no one gets flayed or threatened." This is historically ignorant. One need only review the history of Ronald Reagan and Hollywood and McCarthyism to know it. The lives of many people were destroyed for idealogical convenience and political advantage. American literature was devastated and simplified for corporate gain. People with complex political views were "framed." Anyone out there recall "blacklists"? I'm second-generation blacklisted. It didn't stop after McCarthy was finally brought down by CBS' Edward R. Murrow, a hero of the time.
The occupation of Afghanistan is indeed "a fool's errand."
-30-
A few new lessons learned,thank you.Tony
Ole 3:22 ------- A couple of points. Iraq next to Iran is predominantly Shia.
Corporate states have been genocidally stealing Tribal people , their land and resources for 600 years.
Which would most people perfer a Tribal federation as Afghanistan or a corporate dictatorship as the USA?
I do not believe the Vietnamese could be considered tribal except for some Hill Tribes.
Well said.
I would add that the term "tribal" is loaded. Is Pat Buchanan a tribalist? I think so. But then his definition of a tribe differs (if you're white, you are right) from
an anthroplogist's. And, of course, the average person thinks of a tribe like some pre-industrial pack of nomads with primitive tools. It's a rather convenient definitiion for those wishing to feel superior to others.
At any rate, it's a wonder more people don't go postal. Were all the US Post office employees decades ago that started the "shoot up the place and the people" trend devout Muslims? I doubt it. We have a sick society. We are observing the symptoms. The elite turds think it is cost effective. I don't. I think it will cost many of the elite plenty. Madame Defarge approaches.
"Lets find a negative term to replace the word 'elites' with."
Robber barons. Corporate criminals. Filthy plutocrats.
Satanists? lol. Anton LaVey was rather the free market libertarian was he not?
How about Lipid Turds? Excretion that has a lot of lipids always floats to the top.
By the way, if your fecal matter floats, RUN to see a doctor. It is a VERY serious symptom. This is not a joke.
Needless to say, alcohol and strippers do not an Islamic fundamentalist make.
http://rense.com/general88/trp.htm
hmmmmm.
actually I saw in a realistic movie that foundamentalists suspended prohibitions in order to deceive, not to saythis is the case in this instance.
Great thread; I ask, whose interests were most sreved by Ft. Hood. A small country comes to mind. Could they have precipitated it? No? I would not have thought bldg 7 could be brought down either. Or 2 gigantic towers into their own footprints by jet fuel.
Who benefited from Ft. Hood? Who might guess what was whispered into, promised unto this unstable man's heart once he was identified as workable, compromised, & positioned. Non?
Set in motion.
An entire nation rejoiced.
Their intel motto is "by deception"
By deception. 3 bldgs. Goal Iraq Achieved.
Pak/Iran next. By deception. Ft. Hood? hhhmmmm....
You may be on to something. I was wondering why the senator from Israel LIEberman) suddenly called for investigation into radical islamic ties when this was clearly a case of guy snapping.
Yep. It's always good ask who benefits. Nazi Zionists have no respect for the USA. They will gut us any way they can for their benefit.
Pat Buchanan made a significant comment that apparently went unnoticed on McLaughlin Group Friday. He said Hasan believed that he would be condemned to hell by God (Allah) for participating in the killing of Muslims. That's the only mention I've found in the media -- and I have read and watched a lot about Hasan -- suggesting that his religious belief forced him to choose between becoming a martyr and going to paradise, or obeying the Army's orders and going to hell. What else explains Hasan's actions? The only thing I'm unsure of is whether going AWOL would have satisfied the religious imperative he apparently absorbed from Imam Anwar Al Awlaki (apparently not).
It would have been easy to ask him if he thought himself compelled to make the choice between martyrdom and eternal damnation. It would be easy to ask other Muslims if they think so. But obviously, as indicated by General Casey's comments about diversity, the U.S. military sorely needs people like Hasan who understand both the language and the religion of the Taliban and their allies like al Qaeda.
The theory is unassailable: if the U.S. is to remake Afghanistan into a U.S. ally in the war against al Qaeda, the military must have people with the qualifications of Hasan. However, as Rich points out:
"If our troops can't be protected from seemingly friendly Muslim American brethren in Killeen, Tex., what are the odds of survival for the 40,000 more troops the hawks want to deploy to Kabul and sinkholes beyond?"
Imams like Yahya Hendi, a Muslim chaplain for the Navy interviewed by Bob Abernathy the other day, have no problem condemning Hasan without reservation as acting in contravention to Islam. However, that doesn't address the fact that killing Muslims, whether they be of the Awlaki, Taliban, or al Qaeda school, or of Hendi's, is contrary to Islam, period.
I think Hasan has made it clear, if it wasn't already, that Islam presents an immense obstacle to McChrystal and Casey's theories about diversity, because the U.S. mission in Afghanistan and adjacent areas is to kill Muslims who think like Hasan and his mentor Awlaki -- that is, to kill Muslims.
Fool's errand, indeed.
"...would be condemned to hell by God (Allah) for participating in the killing of Muslims."
The error you (or Buchanan) have here is the ascribing to Muslims the belief that: "killing of Muslims is wrong, but killing of others is acceptable". Per canonical belief, deliberate killing of another human(s) without due process, or killing of innocents is wrong. Thus a Muslim would have the same dilemma in killing of another human of whatever nation or religion (theologically speaking).
I believe it is the same in Christianity. By that token, all Christian soldiers are forced to make the same choice. That's why we have dissenters from draft from either religion (or AWOL, for those who wise up later in the game). A Christian soldier wouldn't go "Gee, he has not discovered Jesus, so off with his head".
Dilli 12:31 Excellent observation
Dilliwala November 16th, 2009 12:31 am – obviously many Muslims think killing innocent people is okay, or maybe that westerners, by definition, aren't included in the general prohibition against killing innocent people. It's silly to say these people aren't really Muslims, or aren't following the truth of their religion. To be sure, not all Muslims think like that.
My essential point, which I think hasn't been recognized in the discussions and MSM media reports, is that Hasan believed his route to salvation, in his circumstances, required doing what he did. I'm also very uncomfortable with Christians who talk incessantly about "a better place" and about how Christians can expect to be wonderfully rewarded in the afterlife for sacrificing their own lives in behalf of the military mission.
Many followers of both of these "great religions," which of course are "religions of peace" (to quote Bush), seem to have no difficulty justifying the killing of innocents. However, in fairness, I think it's beginning to dawn upon Washington that the reckless, even wanton, killing of innocent Afghans and Iraqis has been a horrible mistake.
To quote Gandhi, "Everyone in the world knows that Jesus taught non-violence, except Christians".
Well said. Many so-called Christians are more Orwellian than Orwell's ficticious "Ministry of Truth".
"What else explains Hasan's actions?"
http://rense.com/general88/trp.htm
vdb November 16th, 2009 5:42 am -- Webster Tarpley's 11/15/09 essay deserves attention; more attention, in fact, than I have time for right now. I do believe his opening statement of two alternative theories of Hasan's motivations is valuable. I am more in line with the first alternative, but where I part company with the "left liberals and other supporters and acolytes of the Obama regime" is in viewing Hasan as someone who "snapped" so that "Calling Major Hasan a terrorist amounts . . . to racism and vindictive prejudice." In my view, implied earlier, Hasan deliberated his actions and acted in a way that served his interest in his own salvation.
I believe Webster goes on to develop a theory of Hasan as being controlled by people other than Awlaki (he refers to him as a "patsy"). I believe Hasan acted upon the teachings of Awlaki.
Whether this was a terrorist act depends upon whether the objective was to kill soldiers or to send a message. While some of both seems to be involved, I believe Hasan was more intent on killing soldiers than on sending a message to the U.S. government or the non-Muslim population that they can expect further terrorist operations unless occupation and exploitation of Muslim countries ceases. The terrorist ideal isn't something like what Hasan did; it's more like a bigger and more attention-getting 9/11.
I personally feel that bush's conceit of pre-emption plays an obvious roll here.
Try http://peaceprobe.wordpress.com/ for the best commentary, the most even-handed, on Major Hasan I've read yet. It's on Gene Stoltzfus blog on the Peace Probe site.
When will the real debate come to the fore? The use of violence to prosecute ones' goals, be they personal or collective. Violence as a means to an end IS the question that WE must address as we begin the new Century. We are called by our faith in universal brotherhood to work for the GOOD of our brothers in the flesh. And work it is.. As you view the world, remember that the black patches of evil which you see are shown against a white background of ultimate good. You do not view merely white patches of good which show up miserably against a black background of evil.
be of good cheer...