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Obama's Meaningless War
True, he doesn't seem a bit like Lyndon
Johnson, but the way he's headed on Afghanistan, Barack Obama is
threatened with a quagmire that could bog down his presidency. LBJ also
had a progressive agenda in mind, beginning with his war on poverty,
but it was soon overwhelmed by the cost and divisiveness engendered by
a meaningless, and seemingly endless, war in Vietnam.
Meaningless is the right term for the Afghanistan war, too, because our bloody attempt to conquer this foreign land has nothing to do with its stated purpose of enhancing our national security. Just as the government of Vietnam was never a puppet of Communist China or the Soviet Union, the Taliban is not a surrogate for al-Qaida. Involved in both instances was an American intrusion into a civil war whose passions and parameters we never fully grasped and could not control militarily.
The Vietnamese Communists were not an extension of an inevitably hostile, unified international communist enemy, as evidenced by the fact that Communist Vietnam and Communist China are both our close trading partners today. Nor should the Taliban be considered simply an extension of a Mideast-based al-Qaida movement, whose operatives the U.S. recruited in the first place to go to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets.
Those recruits included Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attack, and financier Osama bin Laden, who met in Afghanistan as part of a force that Ronald Reagan glorified as "freedom fighters." As blowback from that bizarre, mismanaged CIA intervention, the Taliban came to power and formed a temporary alliance with the better-financed foreign Arab fighters still on the scene.
There is no serious evidence that the Taliban instigated the 9/11 attacks or even knew about them in advance. Taliban members were not agents of al-Qaida; on the contrary, the only three governments that financed and diplomatically recognized the Taliban-Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Pakistan-all were targets of bin Laden's group.
To insist that the Taliban be vanquished militarily as a prerequisite for thwarting al-Qaida is a denial of the international fluidity of that terrorist movement. Al-Qaida, according to U.S. intelligence sources, has operated effectively in countries as disparate as Somalia, Indonesia, England and Pakistan, to name just a few. What is required to stymie such a movement is effective police and intelligence work, as opposed to deploying vast conventional military forces in the hope of finding, or creating, a conventional war to win. This last wan hope is what the effort in Afghanistan-in the last two months at its most costly point in terms of American deaths-is all about: marshaling massive firepower to fight shadows.
The Taliban is a traditional guerrilla force that can easily elude conventional armies. Once again the generals on the ground are insisting that a desperate situation can be turned around if only more troops are committed, as Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal did in a report leaked this week. Even with U.S. forces being increased to 68,000 as part of an 110,000-strong allied army, the general states, "The situation in Afghanistan is serious. ..." In the same sentence he goes on to say "but success is achievable."
Fortunately, Defense Secretary Robert Gates is given to some somber doubts on this point, arguing that the size of the U.S. force breeds its own discontents: "I have expressed some concerns in the past about the size of the American footprint, the size of the foreign military footprint in Afghanistan," he said. "And, clearly, I want to address those issues. And we will have to look at the availability of forces, we'll have to look at costs."
I write the word fortunately because just such wisdom on the part of Robert McNamara, another defense secretary, during the buildup to Vietnam would have led him to oppose rather than abet what he ruefully admitted decades after the fact was a disastrous waste of life and treasure: 59,000 Americans dead, along with 3.4 million Indochinese, mostly innocent civilians. I was reporting from Vietnam when that buildup began, and then as now there was an optimism not supported by the facts on the ground. Then as now there were references to elections and supporting local politicians to win the hearts and minds of people we were bombing. Then as now the local leaders on our side turned out to be hopelessly corrupt, a condition easily exploited by those we term the enemy.
Those who favor an escalation of the Afghanistan war ought to own up to its likely costs. If 110,000 troops have failed, will we need the half million committed at one point to Vietnam, which had a far less intractable terrain? And can you have that increase in forces without reinstituting the draft?
It is time for Democrats to remember that it was their party that brought America its most disastrous overseas adventure and to act forthrightly to pull their chosen president back from the abyss before it is too late.
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90 Comments so far
Show AllGreat article. Obama's drive to compromise before he was even elected is going to issue in more and more useless, needless bloodshed on all sides. WAKE UP and GET OUT while there's still any sliver of hope for changing the BushCo legacy!
It is necessary to fight Al Qaida. The Taliban became targets by being an ally of our enemy. But, here again, we attempted to make a "republic" in a place where it will not happen without a belief that a secular government will work.
Perhaps we should have reinstalled the Afghan King? Who knows? Ultimately, did this strategy work in Iran? But, the Taliban was not a popular government either.
The Taliban are a dangerous enemy. So is Al-Qaida. I think we must reasses how we will fight them.
I think it is interesting that right-wingers always invoke World War 2 (which was led by liberals) as the paradigm for war while the leftists always want to invoke Vietnam (which was lost by right-wingers).
We should stop drawing parallels and if we fight, fight the battle that is before us.
Leaderless September 2nd, 2009 9:56 am.....Why are we in Afghanistan?
I do not why we are "in Afghanistan." I know why we must fight Al-Qaida. The Taliban government was led by viscious evil people who ruled by conquest. If they had been willing to drive out Al-Qaida from their country they would still be viscious evil people ruling in Afghanistan without an opponent in the US government. I make no claim that it is moral to be "in Afghanistan" just that it is necessary for the time being.
"I know why we must fight Al-Qaida. The Taliban government was led by viscious evil people who ruled by conquest. If they had been willing to drive out Al-Qaida from their country they would still be viscious evil people ruling in Afghanistan."
I am puzzled still. Why Afganistan? Evil leadership, cruelty to their own citizens, I could make up a list right now and Afganistan would be in the bottom third.
What does the Taliban have to do with Al-Qaida?
Why is it necessary for the time being?
Sigh.
Henry8,
NATO took on the war in Afghanistan because the Taliban government (who had only been recognized by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and who had been condemned for their culture war) harbored AlQaida. My point is that the Taliban chose to ally itself with Al-Qaida.
As Rich M and others I don't cotton to those that disparage our country or follow the typical lies about it and I disagree with RichM and others when they have honest differences of viewpoint from mine, but I also agree with then when I believe they are right.. So I feel that I can say this factually.....
We are NATO, always have been. It was our mechanism for providing protection to Europe after WW2. Not one country would be there if Bush had not sent our Marines there. Not many NATO troops there are there?
"My point is that the Taliban chose to ally itself with Al-Qaida."
So is Iran, Libya etc....Saudi Arabia funds much of their activity. Al-Qaida is not some monolithic organization that we can fight on the battlefield. The Talibamn are a bunch of religious fanatics that wish to live in the middle ages....but they aren't in America. We shouldn't be there.
This will accomplish nothing but to get more fine young kids killed. And the Afgani's that are trapped between the two of us.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to reconsider what this really is.
Thanks
Leaderless doesn't know why we are in Afghanistan, but we have to keep fighting. That make sense to any reasonable person? If you don't know why you are fighting and losing lives every day, shouldn't you go home?
Mispost.
I agree except for "Like a typical American, you assume the US govt ("we", as you call it) should by rights sit in judgement of which government to install in which country."
Most don't think we should be there.
The people of Afghanistan (and now Pakistan) have the right to self-determination. Over 60% of Afghanis think Amerika is part of the problem over there, not the solution.
I support the Taliban because they are fighting U.S. imperialism. They certainly are not socialist or pro-worker in any sense of the word, but right now the Taliban is all the people of Afghanistan have to fight imperialism. It is the only organized and cohesive group willing to take on the U.S.
We are getting our asses kicked, and rightly so. The Taliban will "win" it on attrition alone. They have millions of supporters, so we can dump troops and weaponry in there until the cows come home, but we'll get kicked to the curb no matter how much money we shove into that block hole.
If you support the Taliban, why not go help them?
Leaderless: if you support the invasion of Afghanistan, why don't YOU go there and fight the Taliban?
I tried. But I was physically disqualified.
Yeah the same thing happened to poor old Rush Limbaugh. He had an Anal cyst so could not go fight them commies in Vietnam.
Quite the irony is it not? Wanting to fight for freedom and liberty and being prevented from doing so by the very thing he became?
We aren't getting our asses kicked. I'd say its very much like Viet Nam in that respect. We kicked their ass every time they stopped to face us, right up till the time they won.
To those that say we would have won if we could have just........I say to them, you don't have any idea what you are talking about. You CANNOT occupy a country, even if you win in the field if the citizens of that country don't think its a good idea.
I have no doubt that the end result will be withdrawal.
RichM
You appear to be one of those people who cannot recognize actual evil. However, you seem to be one who loves to point out imagined evil. I wonder if you can recognize good?
You believe contrary to all evidence that Al Qaida and the Taliban pose no danger to citizens of the United States or anyone else for that matter. You forget that The United States is among the first responders in emergencies in the world. Our shame was that our government messed up royally after Katrina. And yet, the citizenry responded quickly...and in many cases still are.
Great post.
RichM,
Perhaps you would enjoy Pat Buchanan's latest article on how Adolf Hitler did not actually want war?
Your "actual history" is on par with a Hitler apologist or holocaust denier.
You seem incapable of discussing the issue in reality. I leave you to your fantasies.
maxpayne is right RichM,
And I owe you an apology. Please accept it.
The problem remains on how US and other NATO countries can extricate themselves from the mess that remains now. They cannot simply leave and declare the war over. There will still be the need to settle terms and reconstruction with whatever government ascends in Afghanistan.
What are your ideas?
That was well done.
I would suspect that RichM and Max would join me in saying its none of our business what kind of government another country has unless it poses a direct, literal and immediate threat to us. Which the Taliban does not.
Pax
I'm on. In fact, the Taliban would disappear as soon as the US and NATO pulled out of Afghanistan. That's hitting two birds with one stone.
Thanks. I agree with bringing US soldiers, marines, and airmen home. I agree that reparations are in order. I believe that some terms of settlement ending hostilities are necessary as well.
Thanks. I agree with bringing US soldiers, marines, and airmen home. I agree that reparations are in order. I believe that some terms of settlement ending hostilities are necessary as well.
Sioux Rose
RICH M: I wish YOU had been my high school social studies/history teacher, and I wish hundreds of others had the benefit of your insights BACK then. Meanwhile, thank you for eloquent poli-sci/historical "lectures" in this forum. Many of us appreciate your depth of analysis.
Even those that occasionally disagree with him or sometimes his anaylsis appreciate the little devil.
RichM isn't a Pat Buchanan fan ! Did you ever take some time to actually read his posts before posting? Your name "leaderless" sure as hell matches you. We have a leaderless president who's pissing us all off and if you don't believe it, get your butt over here to VA and NJ and watch the voters getting angrier at Obama for selling out. This betrayal is turning blue into red and it ain't pretty. RichM ain't in fantasy. He's like a farmer who finds smoke coming from under his fields and getting himself and others to prepare for evacuation so that one week later no one is killed by the lava that envelopes the entire farmland and much of the county.
For one calling himself "leaderless" you sure seem to be led around on the leash of mainstream thnking. "Clueless" would be a more appropriate tag.
Ephraim
I think you are falling for the romantic view that says one contrary voice must know more than every other voice that is speaking. NATO joined in the war against Al-Qaida and the Taliban.
Americans fell for that line of thinking about Iraq.
I am Leaderless because I am making my own decisions and not falling for the "party line."
Ephraim: you beat me to it...I was just about to suggest "Clueless" too...
Of course the U.S. would like a compliant government that would give their fossil-fuel industry a free hand. That is unlikely but they have to keep troops there anyway to keep Russia and China from controlling the natural gas pipeline routes. Stability is not the main goal. Control of fossil-fuel sources and tranport is the main goal.
http://freepublictransit.org
Too many articles are written about Afghanistan without mentioning the gas pipeline or its importance as a probable cause of why we're there.
Spot on... I heard Gore Vidal make this similar point a short while ago.
Spot on. And when the George Wills of the world are saying we need to get out.....itys beginning to look like everyone has figured out how worthless this war is but Pelosi, Reid and Obama.
The only terrorism we should be fighting is from our own government; at the least, complicit in 9/11....at the most, the real perpetrators.
The Carlyle Group, Raytheon, Bechtel, Halliburton, Triple Canopy, et al object to the use of the term "meaningless" in the headline.
Very wise article from one of the most knowledgeable about the area. I hope someone with power to make decisions reads it and thinks.
Sorry to post twice in a row, but I had to comment also on this advice from Scheer: "What is required to stymie such a movement is effective police and intelligence work, as opposed to deploying vast conventional military forces..." I've been arguing that for years, and in short for "intelligence" in our approach to such a shadowy, international terrorist enemy -- "intelligence" meaning using brainpower, all the smarts at our disposal rather than the perverted "intelligence" of shadowy black ops, drone bombs, and tactics worse than those of terrorists. (A dead innocent is a dead innocent is a dead innocent....)
Leaderless September 2nd, 2009 11:04 am.........The taliban offered OBL to Bush if he could present evidence of his involvement in 9/11. The Bush administration DID NOT TAKE THE OFFER. Ever wonder why?
Do you believe the Taliban would have accepted the evidence? Why do you not accept Bin Laden's own claim?
Leaderless September 2nd, 2009 11:53 am.........The Bin Laden video has been debunked over and over. The FBI does not have any evidence he was involved in 9/11 and is therefore not on their wanted list for 9/11.
The Taliban offered...the video is everywhere on the web...Bush and his criminal cabal never even considered the offer. Why? Because they had NO EVIDENCE!
Consider this...........
http://informationclearinghouse.
info/article23127.htm
There is a FBI wanted list just for 9/11?
Who are the debunkers?
Leaderless September 2nd, 2009 12:16 pm............Try this
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/
osamatape.html?q=osamatape.html
and then this....
http://www.multiline.com.au/~johnm/taliban.htm
Check the FBI list yourself. Bin Laden is not wanted for 9/11.
I checked your links. For a moment I took you seriously. Good Joke.
Leaderless September 2nd, 2009 12:50 pm..................Suit yourself...makes no difference to me.
It's way past time for President Obama to stop floundering around with his Presidency and come out with a bold plan to completely remedy the hole the United States has dug itself into.
Please read Dave Lindorff's Blog page: "Obama's Narrowing Window of Opportunity." He's got it all together!!! You won't believe how simple the solution could be if the President really meant what he said during his campaign.
You can find it here:
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/?q=node/362
Robert Scheer provides valuable institutional memory with his references back to how JFK and LBJ gradually were sucked in (and sucked the country with them) into a senseless, bloody war in Vietnam despite Johnson's express promise on the campaign trail never to send "American boys to die in an Asian war."
So many of the current dynamics run parallel.
There is the magical belief that hi tech air power can achieve political objectives, as a lower-casualty substitute for intensive infantry campaigns. There is domestic partisan fear of the Commander-in-Chief being labeled soft, and "losing." There are the ever present pressures from the military industrial complex to gradually escalate, with a glimmer of light always seen at the end of the tunnel. There is the sober reality that the locals inevitably view the foreigners as foreign intermeddlers (at best), whose military presence maintains a corrupt regime in power, no matter how lofty the stated goals of the military mission may be framed.
You know we are in deep trouble when Robert Gates is being singled out as a moderate voice for reason and restraint within the White House inner circle.
Bill from Saginaw
Johnson was folksier than that. What he said was:
"I won't send American boys to fight in a war that Asian boys should be fighting for themselves."
The war in Afghanistan is not "meaningless" to the wealthy, elite that really make foreign policy, but it is an OBAMANATION to me!
Well said.