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TechnoratiFour Voices in the Senate for Healthcare Justice
There were no reports in the media Tuesday about the four United States Senators who voted for a bit of sanity today in the midst of the complexity of the race to reform healthcare in the United States. Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa, Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon and Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio all voted to allow individual states the right to pass and implement publicly funded, privately delivered single payer healthcare programs, if they should choose to do so.
But the other Senators on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee didn't want to support the amendment to the health reform legislation. Senator Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico was perhaps the most vocal in his opposition to the state single payer enabling amendment as he argued that he felt those Americans happy with their coverage through private or some of the public plans would not want to face a change to a single payer system.
Sen. Sanders offered clarification that answered the concern, but Sen. Bingaman did not budge. That made me mildly sad, though didn't surprise me. Many people in New Mexico have been working on a state healthcare reform bill that would allow citizens of the state to pool together to "self insure" in their single payer system. It is an innovative and interesting answer to a crisis that looms as large in Santa Fe and Albuquerque as it does anywhere else in the nation.
It was refreshing to hear the four Senators affirm their support if not for single payer outright then at least for states' rights. Many state and local governments have been absolutely devastated by the costs of providing healthcare to their employees and their retirees - and that has hurt school districts and road improvement programs and recreation districts and more for years. It seems to me common sense that states ought to have the absolute right to fix the mess in a way that makes sense for their citizenry. But that argument just didn't prevail in the Senate.
Senator Mike Enzi of Wyoming said he'd hold his comments on the matter until Senator Sanders brings a single payer bill up on the floor of the Senate later in this process, as Sen. Sanders promised he would do. So just because the amendment failed it does not keep Senator Sanders from introducing single payer again. And he'll need support . I can hardly wait to hear that anti-single payer propaganda from Enzi and probably a good number of conservatives who still want people to buy that public funding means bad policy while protecting for-profit private insurance companies with taxpayer money is all-American, red-white-and-blue, patriotism. I trust those with some gumption in the Senate will rise to that occasion and speak the truth.
There may be many reasons our Senators argue against single payer, but the one that is the most powerful is the one they'll least admit. The insurance industry in investing $1.4 million a day to make sure no state is allowed to innovate with anything close to a single payer plan, as Sen. Sanders reiterated in the mark-up session, and the insurance industry must make sure that they'll be sitting pretty when the monstrosity of a 2009 healthcare reform bill is signed in the Rose Garden.
I wonder how many more dead New Mexicans will be required before those losses are felt in Washington, DC. And how many more Californians dead? New Yorkers? How about closed recreation centers and unfilled pot holes and underfunded schools?
I hope as the next few days pass, those of us who care will weigh in with our Senators. Some thanks are due to those who cared enough to vote affirmatively for state single payer efforts, and some direct attention for those who think we'll accept a bail-out of the for-profit insurance industry in place of a truly reformed system is in order.
Now. Before it's too late for this Congress. Because if we let them, they'll pass a mess that will make the Medicare Part D complexity look simple and will still leave us in a mess. We deserve better. We need that single payer debate on the Senate floor to include more voices representing all of us and fewer protecting an industry that has bought off even some of our Senators who might otherwise hear the people back home.
85 Comments so far
Show AllThe problem with health care is as much cost as anything else. The insurance companies have been stupid. They could have been smart and promoted far lower cost treatments but chose to be stupid and try to "control" costs. They could have funded research for non-patentable compounds and then watched prices fall. They had a bad business plan and they deserve to fail.
But they are not the only answer. I am constantly disappointed with Donna Smith. The West Coast is teeming with alternative practitioners who actually heal their patients for far less cost than most can imagine. There is a nurse who is a legislator in Washington state who blocks reforms that would make these practices available to all. Most doctors fear losing their licenses and need legislative protection. Are nurses one more group just worried about their jobs? The California Nurses Association could be a powerful force for real changes in health care delivery, but they just keep demanding that other people pay the unacceptably high bills.
It's been mentioned below--Medicare has been running in the red for years and will soon be broke. Doesn't sound like a healthy system to me. Even countries that started national health care systems before the monopoly was entrenched are starting to feel the stress. We need a new paradigm. Nothing else will work.
In 2000, John McCain said we couldn't fix anything in gov't until we got the corporate money out. Truer words were never spoken by a politician.
Yes, getting the lobbyist money out of DC is the way to fix our government. So, #1 we must have campaign finance reform utilizing sunshine. I'd love to see listed right up on C-Span where their campaign $ comes from as each congress critter is speaking. If the subject is health, for instance, it would be so interesting and informative if the total from the health care lobby was flashed right up there under the name of the speaker. And how about a law stating that the bills being voted on must be published on the internet for one week prior to any vote? (And include the name of the originator of each provision.) Finally, any congress critter who votes for any bill who says he didn't read the bill first should be fired. No excuses.
I wouldn't say that the insurance companies were stupid. They knew what they were doing and all they wanted was to milk as much money as they could regardless of the costs to the customers. I am surprised about what you said about the nurse groups but I do see where they would definitely do well to connect the issues and try all venues. The name CA Nurses Association on the other hand makes me wish that I could see a MO Nurses Association. In fact, there ought to be a Nurses Association in one's state.
What a beautiful idea that the four senators agreed about! Nowadays, we must sure of our conditions. We cannot deny that healthcare passes will be even more affordable. And because of the global crisis we are experiencing, we should be more practical.
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I find all your comments rather silly and entertaining. So let me get this straight because I'm getting hungry and I getting ready to order me a couple of sausage strombolis. If single payer health care passes, then I can have 5 strombolis instead of two at a time because healthcare will be even more affordable? I find that funny because as I see it with single payer, I'll be lucky to get 1 sausage stromboli instead of two. At least with the regular insurance companies, who needs to worry? I can enjoy eating all I want to and get covered. Single Payer? No way. And now, I gotta order my strombolis and enjoy watching Scooby Doo. Don't worry. Be happy. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM !!! MORE FOOD !! MORE FOOD !!
Your comments on this forum suggest you might be the best excuse for cannibalism since Jeffery Dahmer's stomach (and other bits) rumbled. Somehow I picture you eventually dying from ADHD at age 95. Please go to the right wing blogs where your lack of, well just about everything, will be appreciated. If your daughter or wife had died painfully because she could not get medical care, perhaps you would not joke. 18,000 dead Americans each year is FUNNY??? Six WTC’s full of innocent folks crashing and burning every year is absolutely knickers wetting hysterical? At least with HR 676 you could get the mental help you need. And don’t worry, the other patients will push you to the head of the queue. “Playing solitaire ‘till dawn with a deck of fifty one, have we?” they will say instinctively. Try not to drool.
Psychiatrists have observed a type of human that has a genetic defect leading to an underarousal of the autonomic nervous system. Persons harboring this defect, for example, exhibit little anxiety when confronted with a potentially dangerous situation. These individuals, though superficially charming, are quite manipulative and do not possess compassion or feeling for society or anyone but themselves. They are called psycopaths and are also sociopathic. In certain situations, society celebrates these individuals because they function well under high stress situations (combat, stock trading, insurance claim denying, test pilots, corporate CEO's, Treasury Secretaries, Presidents, etc). Unfortunately, these same "qualities" are the main part of the psych of serial killers, child molesters, CIA killers, mafia hit men, etc. They are the predators of this world. They are, as Soux Rose would say, the embodiment of the mars archetype. I just think they are evil bastards who are defective humans we need to weed out or we will die as a species. The psychos cannot be reasoned with. They don't get it. They enjoy splatting people and things that are in their way.
EncinoM, Laffing GutfilledPig (or is it Garfield?) you guys need to be put in a cage with lots of insurance corporation provided pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy so you stop destroying us.
Sioux Rose
AGG: are you familiar with the invisible energy vortexes known as the chakras? The primary one, resonant with the sexual urges and all raw impulses of self-preservation acts as the energetic equivalent of Mars. This "zone" is also analogous to the ego. Many get stuck here. However, there are 6 other chakras and it is intended that human beings evolve to actualize the potentials of each in an integrated manner. The second chakra links with basic emotions, and the third with the capacity to think, deduce, and discern data. It is my view that if the individual has attained a relative balance among these three (visually it would look like an equilateral triangle), then they gain access to the 4th chakra (or dimension), the domain of the heart. It opens as a stream of soul-based wisdom activating the "Sophia" principle.
Most people never get past that first chakra, hence they are ruled by raw self-interest and ego. Our society, catering as it does to militarism and grotesque spectacles of competition ensures this remains the case. From world wide wrestling and sports spectacles, to religions that clamor for vengeance, to a particularly despicable species of porn proliferating, people are taught to focus on the lowest common denominators of consciousness and mistake THAT for reality! Few get to the point where they can balance the quintessential 3 dimensions/chakras of personal selfhood. What with food additives, caffeine, sugar, and chemical stimulants most can't manage their bodies/weight or emotions. And then there is the matter of growing the intellect to keep it young, active, and alive. Thus without a healthy balance forged among these three, the real power of love is lost on the vast majority.
So when I speak of Mars rules, I wish to add that there are many dimensions to this thesis. I explained its influence in painstaking detail in my new book, "Moon Dance: The Feminine Dimensions of Time." Excuse me for giving it a plug, but it's self-published and represents over 15 years of dedicated intellectual labor!
As usual, my dear Sioux Rose, you are on to a greater truth. I know exactly when I passed by the first chakra. I was driving past a church in Tucson. The (usually boring) placard read "It's a sin to build a nuclear weapon." I could not get this out of my head, and cannot refute it to this day. I blew out of the aerospace and defense industry and moved on to doing things that benefitted humans. In the process, I left the middle class, and its monkey suits and materialism, in the smog above me. My energy of Mars now mixes with that of Venus, thanks to the influence of my late friend and longtime companion who died because she could not afford proper medical care, and thanks to my rejection of the values our mechanized society forces upon us. Now I suffer partial blindness and a severely enlarged aorta (that painfully leaks once in a while) and was told by the doctor at the free clinic to rest, or else. This is why I ride a mountain bike for miles in the 105 degree Utah desert heat, going nowhere in particular and smiling, A LOT!! This is not disobedience, this is life. I can still feel all my chakras, thank you very much. My favorite prose is “The Desert” by John C. Van Dyke, which was published in 1901, and was reprinted by the Arizona Historical Society much more recently. Something tells me that you (and anyone else reading this rant down to this point) would also love it. A sample is here: http://www.utahredrocks.com/vandyke.htm
Hi Sioux Rose,
I have heard of the term chakras from an Indian friend of mine. I looked up more information on chakras and found this basic information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra
With reference to the first Chakra that you described, it sounds similar to "Muladhara: The Base Chakra" I found in Wikipedia. It seems that the mean and blissfully ignorant are happy enough with the first one and don't think of paying attention to the other chakras even though the other 6 chakras are equally critical to the true well being of the individuals and those around them. Very scary.
Thank you again for the further insight. :)
LOL !! What a bunch of pantywetting Naderite crybabies here just begging for some government run health care program ! Insurance companies have a damn right to profit if they want. I know you all hated it when I told you that I was a proud top-notch manager of a big corporate healthcare insurance firm. I may have been like a tough sergeant to my employees but if it weren't for my skills that I gained from being a tough police officer in NYC and later a US mercenary, the company wouldn't have made it. Sometimes, I even had to throw out employees who were sick and women who were getting pregnant and hire replacements pronto ! I was proud of my service and I'm a proud self-employed entrepreneur making it big and with the stock market swinging back to normal, it'll be a blast ! Oh and Sioux Rose, thanks for trying to curse me that I'd be a slave wife in my next life but you wish ! LOL ! LOL ! LOL !
And if it isn't the losers from Alternet : Bliss Doubt, JenniferBedingfield, and CarlaWaters ! LOL ! Bliss Doubt, I miss knocking your Nader-loving nonsense down and JenniferBedingfield, I see you're getting rather weak on Alternet and losing out ! I see you 3 pantywetting Naderite crybabies decided to come here and join the losers but that's understandable. LOL ! Oh please show up more often you 3 ! We want to have fun knocking you Naderites down and giving you 1 ratings ! But if you don't want to come back, no problem. I think we need to balance out the extreme Naderite nonsense and I think I'll invite who you all call the "Obamabots" over and keep you all crying so I can keep having a barrel of laughs on this site ! LOL ! LOL !
Obviously now you are a diaper wetting retiree from your heyday, with all your hours free to pursue third party voters online. Hope your private insurance takes care of you, and you don't end up in one of those old age homes where they tie you to your chair, a Baptist one where they don't have bingo or evening sherry!
I left Alternet because Alternet allows online sexual harassment, nothing more. I'm not afraid of right wing trolls, corporate sucking shills, blue dogs, alternative views, debate, discussion, rebuttal, nor your view from the bottom of the barrel. After all, I do live in Texas, and I'm surrounded by the tribe of Bubba, so I'm accustomed to rants like yours.
Bring on the Obamabots! There are plenty of them here already, not that you're one of them.
You tell him Bliss ! :)
Psychiatrists have observed a type of human that has a genetic defect leading to an underarousal of the autonomic nervous system. Persons harboring this defect, for example, exhibit little anxiety when confronted with a potentially dangerous situation. These individuals, though superficially charming, are quite manipulative and do not possess compassion or feeling for society or anyone but themselves. They are called psycopaths and are also sociopathic. In certain situations, society celebrates these individuals because they function well under high stress situations (combat, stock trading, insurance claim denying, test pilots, corporate CEO's, Treasury Secretaries, Presidents, etc). Unfortunately, these same "qualities" are the main part of the psych of serial killers, child molesters, CIA killers, mafia hit men, etc. They are the predators of this world. They are, as Soux Rose would say, the embodiment of the mars archetype. I just think they are evil bastards who are defective humans we need to weed out or we will die as a species. The psychos cannot be reasoned with. They don't get it. They enjoy splatting people and things that are in their way.
EncinoM, you need to be put in a cage with lots of insurance corporation provided pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy so you stop destroying us.
CUCKOO! CUCKOO! CUCKOO! CUCKOO! CUCKOO! CUCKOO!
Ignore this BS. Sounds as if it were written by a 12-year old who's run out of things to do over summer break.
WHOA there, EncinoM ! Let's cool it there and knock off all that hate talk. If you want to get your list of "losers" from Alternet as you so call them, then please be sure to add me to your list. For your own information, Bliss Doubt isn't going back since she's fed up with the cheesy behavior on that site. I haven't been there myself and while I might visit it again, I don't know what has been going on there but you have no right to beg others to be your punchbag sir ! And what about that lie you told me sometime back on Alternet that you never posted here? It's bad enough that you can't handle the truth even after giving you all the evidence to back up my comments but I realized over time that you were just in plain denial mode. I nailed you on several issues be they women's reproductive rights, gun control, the Constitution itself, war in Iraq, etc ... and so have several others but I see you have never matured one bit over the years. I thought I wrote you a reply on this site on your cruel post. In any case, it was bad enough that you gave Bliss Doubt and JenniferBedingfield a hard time acting like a rightwing lunatic but when they find out your cruel post where you took pride in cruelty to women as a health care manager, they're gonna hate you even more I'll wager. I can't doubt that a health insurance corporation would gladly accept a fringe lunatic with a police and mercenary background such as you into the company and even give your a top management position given the cruel nature of Big Insurance. Between you and Big Insurance, there's one common feature I notice. You're like a school bully who suddenly gets scared when truth and justice have their say. You couldn't even resist trying to attack Sioux Rose for scaring the lights out of you on karma so you had to try and cough up some laughs, eh? Go right ahead and try to bring in your Obama fundies. They won't even last a day since most of them refuse to think and are no different from the Bush followers. We'll make them feel so sorry that they wished they had thought thrice before trolling here ! Now either you show some civility and learn to discuss and debate the issues thoughtfully or you can take your sorry @$$ outta here and go back to Alternet where you obviously belong sir. Do I and others make ourselves clear?
maxpayne,
Thanks for the reposte. Touche'!
Where's Beck? Seeing EncinoM here is making me crave a good, clean game of whack-a-troll.
Beck from Alternet has no intention of thinking critically. Several times, she was even pointed to articles coming from CD but judging by her typical Obamabot replies, she never reads them. She's what AGG would describe a paid Obama PR troll to infiltrate the progressive sites and disrupt discussion. I can't imagine Beck from Alternet even wanting to come here at all. She's too busy getting her gang to bully other real progressives. I can't imagine Beck from Alternet staying here longer than one day when she tries to copy Obama's talking points and preach "personal responsibility" with a rightwing slant. I would normally expect EncinoM to reply so soon but it looks like he's unable to recover from real thrashing for his cruel remarks. On Alternet, he'd act like a typical rightwing jerk. Joshua Holland and his staff really need to clean up their site. Lately, their site is trying to now get people to just accept the "public option" scam as if it's a real compromise when in fact it's nothing but a one way ticket to conceding to the corporate interests and making single payer health care tougher to bring up in future years even when it will really be needed. Unlike Alternet, the trolls on this site usually don't last long. They may come back and forth but we verbally kick them to the curb if they won't try and behave themselves. :)
P.S.: I've been slowly backing out of Alternet by posting fewer posts there. There's too much sex articles and Michael Jackson and Sarah Palin nonsense on that site as it is. I hope Alternet fails ! I have also been inviting good progressive minded users who share our views, are tolerant and understanding, and would likely receive a far more courteous response as well. CD is much better than Fluffpost or even Alternet IMHO.
Hey Jennifer, I keep checking back here for EncinoM too. I actually missed him a little bit. Trolls don't bother me in the least. In fact, it's debating with them that's all the fun.
I'm afraid Alternet has been taken over by advertising more than anything, and when advertising takes over, everything changes. It's sad. I noticed one time, when everyone was commenting about the dropdown ads, complaining that they prevent the Alternet story from loading, one of the editors replied that they don't see the ads on the editors' version of Alternet.
I do find that Common Dreams has quite a few more true progressive users than Alternet, and the CD editors don't tend to change the original writers' story titles to be more attention grabbing, and there's a LOT less fluff here. Alternet is sinking to a National Enquirer editorial level.
In this thread, Sioux Rose nailed it on what makes those snots on Alternet what they are. Read her response to AGG on chakras. I think she knows a lot more about the Eastern religions in addition to the west.
At one point, Alternet was begging for a bailout and saying that they'd have to resort to ads if not enough people cooperated. A few days later they made it look like a lot of people contributed big so now they're back in business. But even some of the Obamabots like Beck can't stand the ads getting worse. A technical friend of mine told me how advertisements get targetted for your area. It has something to do with collecting the computer address and then the rest is child's play. This economy's getting desperately worse so who knows what Alternet is even thinking anymore. Over there, Mammon and Mars rule !
Yep they have the "right to profit from people needing basic health-care,the sick and the dying.GOD SAVE AMERICA FROM THIS IDIOT!!!!
You overestimate EncinoM's influence. America needs saving from much worse than him, though he is entirely tedious.
Good for you, naricissistic freak; you don't give a F#$% about no one but yourself. I don't give a F$%# who you are and we don't give a F%#$ what you think.
However, I am impressed with your vocabulary, your level of analysis, your command of the issues and the deep understanding of the democratic process, keep up the good work. Now just bugger off to a site where knuckle-dragging, wannabe tough-guy chickenhawk egomaniacs can have a pissing contest with themselves.
I CAN HEAR THE MOANS OF THESE REPRESENTATIVES AS THEY STRUGGLE
TO LIFT THE LARGE BAGS OF MONEY GIVEN TO THEM BY HMO'S
BIG PHARMA AND INSURANCE COS. IS CHIROPRACTIC PART OF THEIR
GOVT. FUNDED HEALTHCARE? I HOPE SO THOSE BAGS ARE EXTREMELY
HEAVY AND MOST OF THESE FAT PRIVILEGED CLOWNS COULD SURE USE
MULTIPLE VISITS TO THE TAXPAYER FUNDED GYM THAT IS A PERK
FOR THEIR HARD HARD WORK. I THINK A READ A ARTICLE THAT STATED
THAT THEY SPEND 3 DAYS A WEEK BEGGING FOR ELECTION FUNDING. WHERE
COULD WE FIND A 2 DAY A WK.150-180 K A YEAR JOB LIKE THAT?
2 day a wk 150-180K a year job...
complete with the best health care money can buy.
Of course Ms. Smith is correct, however it is already too late in the policy process, we aint gonna get anywhere close to single payer, the USA will remain decades behind the curve.
We could collectively save roughly a trillion dollars a year with universal single-payer, the savings alone could finance the transition. The USA spends well over 16% of GDP on the health profit system, double what most other countries spend and we have 50 million uninsured and rapidly climbing; not to mention the under-insured and folks who go bankrupt due to medical costs (even with insurance)
Public opinion has been in favor of single payer type system for decades. Since we live in a phony democracy, the neo-fascist duopoly can routinely deny the public what it wants and get away with it. Unless this corrupt system is altered or abolished, we cannot expect the democratic process to benefit anyone but the ruling oligopoly.
Unless there is some sort of massive demonstration of organized demand for single-payer we can forget about it. That is the hard truth.
Brother it is time for a general strike!Buy nothing,park the car,turn off the appliances,unplug the phone(after you call in sick)and go weed the garden.If the Sanders Amendment gets no debate time in the Senate it will be the latest in a series of blatent betrayals of the electorate.We have no representation ,I think we should start there. peace
I want single payer. I want insurance companies out of the picture entirely. I ask these questions out of confusion.
I'm 66, I live solely on social security & food stamps. I opted out of Medicare because I could not afford the $90.00 I was told would be taken from my check, so am currently under no medical coverage at all.
I would not like a mandatory obligation to buy insurance, obviously.
My question is: If I can't afford to get on medicare now, what can a person in my position expect under single-payer (my cost) if I need medical attention?
Basically, I need free medical care across the board before I can even think of seeing a doctor.
barrycounty, you must be one of the folks in regulatory limbo,"Sickcare Pergatory" I call it.If your income exceeds 130% of poverty level $10k + and your assets are over 2k in my state you are not poor enough for Medicaid!I don't know the rules in your state.You need to recertify and prove your income /expense balance every few months.Hopefully your State has excemptions for a modest home and car . A small bussiness ,self employment. should give you the bookeeping tools to reduce your net below poverty level.I believe business property can be deducted from the asset list by an understanding State worker.Be well sir. peace
A proper single payer system would cover EVERYONE. Don't forget that Medicare, as good as it is, is still hampered by the presence of the immoral for-profit system, thus requiring payment of a "premium." If it were completely paid for by income taxes, you wouldn't have to pay anything other than your fair share of taxes. Don't succumb to the paranoia of the right wing. Healthcare is a human right. Honest to goodness, do you think that pensioners in the UK have to worry like we do? They get bus fare to the doctor if they can't afford it themselves. Perhaps if we actually had a culture here, we would care for each other. I am not going to hold my breath waiting. I hope to live long enough to get Social Security, but without medical help, those three years are an eternity. Life is now misery and bare survival. I know others far worse off than myself, and I grieve for our poor sick country. May God have mercy on us all.
barrycounty July 15th, 2009 2:34 pm....Just curious. If you get food stamps, are you not eligible for Medicaid?...or must you have Medicare to get Medicaid? I'm 64 and also live on my SS, but currently carry no insurance; so Medicare must be my choice in a year....and likely, Medicaid, also.
All the health "reform" being discussed and proposed in the House and Senate, overall, is too little too late and is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. "Sir, would you like the lounge chair astern or the padded one to starboard, before we all slide into the drink?" Laugh out loud.
The 2009 legislation is all about making sure that single payer, which has become very obviously necessary, is delayed indefintely. The more poor the US becomes, and the more excessive health costs become, the less the US will be able to implement single payer, so it is possible that the delay will actually turn out to be pretty much permanent.
There are many shortcomings, but the top two specific problems with the proposals are:
1. There is no where near enough cost reduction / cost containment power. So the Titanic is still going down. BOTH single payer and strong and immediate cost reduction is necessary, and I must say that this was obvious even before the economy and the people in it started to drown due in part to excessive health costs.
2. The mandate and the associated penalties amount to an unprecedented, regressive (exactly how regressive is not clear to me yet) and apparently an unconstitutional tax.
The last time I checked, taxation is supposed to be only for the common good, and private health insurance is definitely not a common good. Isn't it obvious that in a democracy the Government can never have a tax/mandate where the proceeds go directly to a private industry, where the Government is little more than a bill collector for that industry? Won't the Supreme Court eventually rule that forcing someone to buy a private insurance product is unconstitutional?
In general taxation becomes invalid, intolerable, and regressive when the Government plays little or at best a marginal role in providing the goods and services involved, and even more so if the Government mandates the purchase of a private product, as in this case.
I do like the Medicaid expansion in the House bill, but that is like 2% of the bill really, and you have to be really, really poor to benefit from that. Those who are just "kind of poor" will have to maneuver through a new large bureaucracy in order to get subsidized by the Government so that they can meet the requirment that they buy private health insurance.
The public option is lame or dead on arrival, mainly because when all is said and done the cost to consumers will be, at best, 10-12% less than a full scale private health insurance plan. That is no where near enough less. And if forced to choose I might actually stick with a private plan, since any new "public option" plan will not necessarily have enough providers associated with it to meet the care demand.
So where are we at, progressives? Are we just supposed to "just give fascism a chance" while we sit on the deck of the Titanic and await going down into the briny blue?
States' rights is not the same as single payer nationally. This isn't anywhere close to healthcare reform. Where does it say in the Constitution that states cannot provide single payer health care? The issue is funding for single payer health care in state and local governments. We need single payer on all levels of government, period.
PS: My senator Mark Warner not only opposes single payer loudly but he also has the nerve to give a lecture on "responsible state spending" ! He should lecture Washington DC first. The other one, Webb, has been mum on single payer though he supports that lousy public option that keeps getting touted as Plan B.
What "we need" we aren't going to get. Let's see, that's 96 to 4 against any form of single-payer. I wonder which side will prevail. Even Feingold isn't speaking out for S-P. If "our" senators ever listened to us, we'd have single-payer already. But since they're the insurance industry's senators ($1.4 million a day lobbied against S-P), they listen to who has all the money. The same's true for every issue out there. That's what a faux democracy looks like.
I just received an email from Dennis Kucinich which compares HR3200 (which has been in the news) with HR676, saying:
quote
HR676 calls for a universal single-payer health care system in the United States, Medicare for All. It has over 85 co-sponsors in Congress with the support of millions of Americans and countless physicians and nurses. How does HR-676 control costs and cover everyone? It cuts out the for-profit middle men and delivers care directly to consumers and Medicare acts as the single payer of bills. It also recognizes that under the current system for-profit insurance companies make money NOT providing health care.
This week is the time to break the hold which the insurance companies have on our political process. Tell Congress to stand up to the insurance companies. Ask members to sign on to the only real public option, HR 676, a single-payer healthcare system.
Hundreds of local labor unions, thousands of physicians and millions of Americans are standing behind us. With a draft of HR3200 now circulating, It is up to each and every one of us to organize and rally for the cause of single-payer healthcare. Change the debate. Now is the time.
The time to act is now!
Sincerely Yours,
Dennis
end quote
Has this been blacked out of the news, or was it just me that missed it, and is there some ridiculous, insurmountable problem with this that I'm not aware of? If not, then wow!
Nice. I'm glad I voted Kucinich in the primaries last year. He's one who rarely gives up without a fight. I know he had to drop out of the presidential race last year but at least he still got to be his house seat and keep HR 676 back in the spotlight as much as possible. Go Dennis ! :)
It's the part about there being 85 co-sponsors of HR676 that has my mouth hanging open.
We're going to definitely need more than 85 but sadly for now, it's a miracle that there are that many as of current. My Republican representative and my Republican senator are too difficult to budge as they're like that creep "Laffing Garfield". I'll be writing to Mckaskill again but this time I think I can use some of Donna's strong points and cases to hopefully get her to listen. I'll be surprised if either Senator for TX even considers the Senate bill let alone supports it. The Republicans are shutoff enough but the Democrats have no excuse to let this opportunity slip !
Government is going to require that you buy health insurance. The problem most people have with buying health insurance is that it costs too much and is a defective product that doesn't do what it purports to do. While there will be some fiddling around the edges with the cost problem, the bottom line is the delivery of approximately 50 million new customers to the insurance industry.
This is unethical. If government wants to require I buy insurance, they had better give me a way to buy it from a non-profit. This touches on our very lives, our most basic freedom. Government cannot truss us up in the flag and deliver us to the industry's spit to be consumed at leisure. If they want to require participation, they cannot require that participation be for someone else's profit. Are they going to regulate the profiteering after they deliver citizens as involuntary customers? Anyone spending $1.4 million a day for that?
Interesting that one of my Senators, Jeff Bingaman, opposes Single Payer because the individuals who are "happy" with their private insurance would be forced into a different system. (I guarantee you that the only people who are satisfied with their private insurance plans have never had a major illness and seen their coverage denied or delayed or been socked with major bills in spite of this coverage. It's only a matter of time.) But, I bet if the plan was to force everyone to have private, for-profit insurance, he would not be opposed. It is clear that this Senator, like so many others, is more interested in seeing the private insurance companies continue to make money than the genuine health and welfare of his constituents. We know who they are representing and working for.
"The insurance industry in investing $1.4 million a day" to lobby our congress, who assures us that the money has no effect on legislation. So why are corporations spending so much on nothing?
Donna, excellent article and thank you for giving us a heads up on our creeps in Washington. What we are witnessing is not only the crumbling of the Military Industrial Complex and Corporate America but upon the slow but painful death of those two, they're counting on their allies in Washington to drag us into their grave and this must STOP !
As to that troll Laffing Garfield, I would be interested in knowing how easy his employer really finds it to manage the costs of providing those health care benefits he's currently enjoying. Most small businesses are already going under the knife for trying to provide their employees decent health care coverage from some insurance provider. Even some of the big companies are feeling more of the brunt of the overhead costs. Laffing Garfield has no business rubbing Raygunomics on us. It's like rubbing salt on a wound just like Obama is continuing to do and this must STOP !
For the love of people and small businesses, single payer is America's only hope. The country is already bleeding with more job losses and privatization !
Sioux
J.B. Care to elaborate on your basis for stating "The crumbling of the military industrial Complex"? Seems to me that beast is getting well-fed. All your other points make sense. And of course Garfield could be Nebraska Nathan or Encino Man, or another fabricated identity that just posts nonsense to piss us all off.
Sioux Rose,
I'm well aware of the beast being fed but another thought hit my mind when I read today's article on suburbia. My thought was that as peak oil catches up to us all, no amount of money being fed into the war machine will be able to keep it sustaining. The less supplies of oil there is, the more expensive it will be. I know that some will still scream "drill drill drill" but I was thinking that maybe more people will realize that peak oil is for real. Without oil, all those military gadgets are useless or at least that's what I assume. I might have fallen into wishful thinking when I said that the MIC is crumbling. I can only hope and pray that Peak Oil will bring the MIC to its knees.
Sioux Rose
JB: I had that idea myself a ways back, but Michael Klare keeps pushing the envelope on the "end of oil" time frame. Meanwhile, I'll toast to your final statement.
Laffing Garfield's employer is an insurance company.
q
Even amongst the blue collared workers, I haven't met a single one who's as lame-brained as Laffing Garfield. Even my conservative parents are begging for single payer healthcare and bugging their Republican Congressman and two senators to have a change of heart and support it. By the tone of LG's posts, he sounds like a stupid little boy begging us to be nice to those nasty health care insurance companies. Well, he can kiss our asses all he wants to but we're dead tired of being held hostage and getting ripped off by them !
Jennifer,
I have met many who are as lame-brained as LG; unfortunately, this includes members of my own family, who make no distinction between Single Payer and "socialized medicine." You can give them all the grim stats on number of bankruptcies and deaths every year- nothing will change their minds. They will listen to Rush, O'Reilly, and all the other propoganda spreaders and insist that
"government-run" health care will be the death of us all.
I don't waste my time trying to discuss issues with these individuals. They aren't capable of logical, critical thought.
Sometimes, the one trick to winning an issue is to just hit them on the issue. They can be conservative, liberal, progressive, or whatever but if you can get them on your side on the issue, you win. I know it's weird to find even my conservative parents supporting single payer while even some of my supposedly "liberal" friends think that single payer is too much to think about but when I look at the issue and not worry about the ideology he or she believes in, I don't hesitate to explain it. The second part is of course whether or not whoever you're addressing single payer to will accept it after all that you have presented. I'm sorry to see your family not taking the idea of SP kindly even after all that you've been through. At least you did everything you could to get them to listen. Sometimes, life gives us unexpected allies and opponents.
PS: I forgot to mention this earlier but I did look up your earlier posts on what you went through and I wished your parents had a heart after what happened to you. Mine did after first watching my cousin stagger through unemployment hell and no coverage and finally after I was sent to the hospital back in May. It's one thing to be able to get enough money needed to get the treatment going but long term affordability is critical and since our electorate is so used to short-term bandaid solutions, getting them to understand and sympathize with the idea of single payer health care is about as "easy" as lifting a mountain.
My parents blame the health care mess on illegals. You cannot get them to admit to the evils of the health care 'providers.' Last year when I needed surgery (and my parents and good friends donated money to pay for the anesthesiology), my father remarked that if I had a Green card, I could get "whatever [I] wanted." They talk about hospitals closing, and the ERs clogging up with these "uninsured people." I keep reminding them that I'm one of those uninsured people and that Bush, whom they voted for twice, said he didn't know what the problem was of not having insurance, and advised people to "just go to the ER."
Blame the health care mess on illegals ?!?!? OMG ! This is absolutely cruel ! Don't they know where these immigrants come from aside from Mexico? Two things, NAFTA and oppressive governments. The first economically crushed those rural peasants and pushed them into the cities and when the cities weren't enough, they had no choice but to cross the border. The second one was the result of the US and Mexican governments cooperating on rigging the elections to put in a rightwinger who like Vicente Fox tolerated oppression, abuse of women and children, and immigrant dumping !
I used to live in the rurals and have to put up with conservatism until a few years ago when I moved into the city because I had gotten my job there when there was none in my then small town. Life feels like it's changing dramatically just choosing to move from the rurals to the city life. Now, these peasants must be finding it even more mind wrecking since they didn't want to do it but the economic conditions along with abuse of women and children forced them to move into the cities. Even more mind wrecking is them being forced to put their own lives at risk when even the cities couldn't help them. So after all the living hell these immigrants went through, they're going to be strong enough to cause the healthcare mess? If you can, discuss the issue of NAFTA and the US and Mexican governments cooperating to put in oppressive leaders and see if they can understand. Do they support NAFTA and/or rightwing pols in Mexico?
Jennifer, your comments are logical and rational-- to a logical and rational, sane person. But I'm telling you, I can NOT discuss any kind of political topic with my family. They don't listen to reason. And I hate to say it, but they're not the only ones who think this way. I have heard others hinting that a lot of our health care mess is because of illegal immigrants (or that's why they don't support universal health care, because they don't want these people to have access to it).
I think Maher has it pretty right: Americans will do anything to one another for money. Guess that's why they call love of money the root of all evil.
It amazes me how many people with moderate and great means can just ignore the plight of so many who struggle to gain at least a basic dignity and quality of life. "Not my problem. Tell 'm to get a job. Don't dare raise my taxes."
I believe this mindset comes from a lack of training in ethics in our schools. If one's primary goal is to "make a lot of money," then he/she will act accordingly. Our schools don't discourage this attitude; they encourage it. The corporate mindset has deeply infected our schools' curricula.
Many believe that capitalism and democracy are synonymous. That's what the big-money corporate "leaders" want them to believe in order to justify obscene profit at the expense of average people.
I am so sad for our nation and world that we haven't used our freedom to deny excessive wealth to any individual or corporation. It would be possible to accomplish if we understood what democracy really was and educated our children that way. But too many of us have bought into what the excessively wealthy want us to believe. So we really are not free.
I and a handful of others I know regularly contact our representatives about these issues. But most people I know have never done so, and call me naive to think it helps. If they would change their tune, things might change. But people are too caught up in the entertainment culture to take the time and trouble. They hand down a worsening world to their progeny because they didn't use what is left of their "freedom" to do a little homework. I cry when I think about it.
"I and a handful of others I know regularly contact our representatives about these issues. But most people I know have never done so, and call me naive to think it helps. If they would change their tune, things might change. But people are too caught up in the entertainment culture to take the time and trouble. They hand down a worsening world to their progeny because they didn't use what is left of their "freedom" to do a little homework. I cry when I think about it."
I know that hard feeling and yes, it is very sad and painful when you find yourself having the knowledge at your finger tips and yet finding even those closest to you laughing at you. George Lakoff has especially written articles warning people who buy into the false "freedom". It is sickening that even some of the progressives and liberals are falling for it if the Obamabots on fluffpost are any indication.
The House bill has got all of us single-payer advocates fuming. It's a convoluted pile of crap that will destroy this country completely. It's all about insurance, not health care, the "public option" is a joke and clearly a dumping ground. Doctors only have to be in the program voluntarily, so don't expect any choice among doctors and expect the worst. Dentists? Well, they're a lost cause. Where I live on Long Island, if you don't have a lot money or dental coverage you are considered a piece worthless garbage, same goes for the doctors here, unless you're lucky.
Yes, I met such an angel two years ago when I suffered an eye accident. I could have had a massive infection left untreated. This amazing doctor took five splinters out of my left eye, gave me antibiotics for my eyes and I had three followup visits. He spent a lot of time with me. Total cost: $200. Can you imagine what the bill would have been had I gone to the Stony Brook ER? This doctor had a lot to say about insurance companies and pharma and was for single payer.
$200 for all that? Wow! In a small town in NM, I once dragged myself to a walk-in clinic because I had a fever that would not break after 4 days- and a bad sore throat. I didn't have insurance, so normally I would never go to a doctor. I waited 2 hours, shivering and barely able to sit in the chair, before I was seen- had a brief exam and throat culture and before the day was over, all that and the antibiotics to treat my strep throat ended up costing me over $200.
At least someone's admitting that government can't handle health care. I would hate to see Taxachussetts-care aka mandatory health care. I feel for you dude.
Perhaps OUR form of corporatist/militarist "government" can't "handle health care" because we, the people, have allowed the Corporate Tools in Congress to literally get away with murder (actually, negligent homicide). According to the updated Institute of Medicine study, 22,000 Americans die every year (that's 60 each day) due to lack of health care coverage.
But other governements are able to "handle health care" well enough with their own versions of adapted single-payer systems: Canada, Taiwan, the U.K., France, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Of course, our insurance industry-financed politicians refuse to learn from any of these nations. Corporate profits are much more important than people's lives.
Health care is a human right, not a for-profit luxury. Truly civilized nations, especially true democracies, understand this and provide health care for all their citizens as a matter of citizenship, as is police protection, firefighting, and sanitation. It is a public health and common good issue.
But our corrupt, legalized bribery system known as campaign financing and lobbying has destroyed true democracy here and made us a corporatocracy where huge banks are bailed out as citizens go hungry and die without health care every day.
Every member of Congress who opposes sensible single-payer health care should be voted out in 2010 and 2012.
The problem is that, under our "two" party system, few members of Congress are worried about being voted out. All the Democrats I know will continue sending their Democratic Congresspeople back; all the Republicans will continue voting Republican. If I even suggest refusing to vote for the Democrats who won't support Single Payer, my friends will get wide eyed and remark, in shock, "Who are you going to vote for? A Republican?!"
As for the 22,000 Americans dying every year, you can bet not one of them is a family member of a Congressperson or executive in the health insurance industry.
The problem is that, under our "two" party system, few members of Congress are worried about being voted out. All the Democrats I know will continue sending their Democratic Congresspeople back; all the Republicans will continue voting Republican. If I even suggest refusing to vote for the Democrats who won't support Single Payer, my friends will get wide eyed and remark, in shock, "Who are you going to vote for? A Republican?!"
As for the 22,000 Americans dying every year, you can bet not one of them is a family member of a Congressperson or executive in the health insurance industry.
Seeing the industry drones (e.g. Laffing Garfield) repeat the same debunked arguments over and over would be funny if the subject weren't so damned serious.
The US has become a distillation of man's inhumanity to man. Maher was right; Americans will do anything to each other for money.
q
That's the rub...single payer would cost less and offer less government involvement and control. What a shame that such misinformation continues to roll off the keyboards and airwaves of this nation.
A little fact and a litte truth-telling is a good thing.
Donna Smith, American SiCKO
Most of you posters to this article don't understand the basic economic concept of insurance...the larger and more diverse pool you are insuring, the more benefits at lower cost you can provide.
Of course Medicare is doomed to fail, its pool includes ONLY the most medically needy (high risk) people (age 65 and over), a demographic that is expensive to insure no matter whether governemnt or private insurance is doing the insuring. The government has a 40+ year track record of providing medicare with a 3% markup vs. private insurers track record of 30% markup for insuring pools that have fewer medical needs (low risk)than the medicare pool (high risk). Get it ???
Single-payer would have a diverse pool exceeding 300 million people, allowing for good benefits at a reasonable cost. That is why the Obama Regime and Congress will not order the Congressional Budget Office to provide a cost analysis for single-payer. They know that such an analysis would make the case for single-payer and result in a great loss of campaign contributions from the insurance/pharma/AMA cartel.
raydelcamino,
You nailed it. Well stated!
Single payer sounds like a nice and tasty idea that I feel like eating another bacon-egg-cheese bagel sandwich and some pancakes but we don't need more big government ideas. Instead, why not just lower the Medicare age to 50? For those below 50, a flat tax rebate of $1000 yearly to pay your insurance company if you're not employed or if your employer doesn't provide any healthcare benefits. Single payer healthcare is too costly and right now, we ain't got the money to pay for it. We're too busy bailing out Goldman Sachs and meddling in foreign affairs to have the money for more big government.
Why not lower the eligibility age for Medicare to zero-- that's what single payer does. Private insurance with its 30% overhead is what is too expensive. $1000 rebate?? That would get me about halfway through my deductible. Wouldn't even touch the premium. Wouldn't stop them from denying my claim (or yours, wise guy).
"Single payer healthcare is too costly and right now, we ain't got the money to pay for it."
That is an idiotic statement. Anyone who cares to look at the economic analysis knows that single payer would save 400 billion a year in overhead and medical office paperwork.
As Dennis Kucinich says, get rid of the middleman and insurance premiums and fund health care directly.
And to those who say Medicare doesn't work well or will go broke... well duh, just fund it, stop starving it, increase the payroll deduction, and increase the pool so everyone is in and nobody is out. Hell, change the name too. But the basic idea is sound.
You're spreading misinformation.
Single payer will reduce costs. Why? You have one non-profit insurer (the government) having the largest risk pool therefore spreading costs in the most efficient manner. It's actuarial science 101.
Single payer will increase choice of doctor and remove an intermediary between you and your doctor. With single payer there's no need for doctors to ask insurance comapnies if they'll cover a procedure, single payer will have schedule of procedures just like Medicare has today.
Single payer will NOT cover every procedure. Examples, elective cosmetic surgery, dentistry, drugs (pharmaceuticals), etc. These would be reserved for private insurers.
The next 20 countries with the largest economies all have a form of single payer. Designed for their needs. The U.S. needs single payer.
"WebMD Health News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD
May 2, 2006 -- Medicare's trust fund will run out of money in 2018, two years earlier than previously expected, the program's trustees reported Monday. "
Yeah, let's expand a system that is already doomed to failure, and while we're at it, let's ignore everyone under 50 ($1,000 yearly? Are you high?). Great plan.
The devil is due. We can't afford Single Payer (according to you), but what we have is failing miserably and Medicare is about to collapse. This is called being between a rock and a hard place where we are forced to look to other areas for a solution...or die.
No, we ain't got the money right now. We don't have the money because we're pissing it away on a huge military budget and bailing out every rich person in the country. So, it seems if we want any quality of life in this country, we need to reach in areas that have been sacrosanct.
If we don't want to slip from a 2nd world nation to a 3rd world nation, we had better fix this problem, and fast. Dicking around and using props won't cut it anymore. The people need to start threatening their mis-representatives with pink slips 'cause that's the only thing they understand.
We don't have a choice - we have to fix this, and some kind of single payer is called for. We can take the best of what other countries have and create a system that works for us. We have no choice.
Ted, Medicare is a form of single payer. You could expand it to include everybody, or you could call it something else. The key is providing enough money for the system to work.
So let's abolish Medicare then. Sounds good to me since it's too poorly managed by big government. Then we might have some money for single payer and then I might accept but only if it doesn't cost more than my employer's insurance provider. Even if single payer passes, without the funding it's doomed to fail. What's our current national debt again?
How exactly is Medicare "managed" by the government? You go to the doctor, the government pays for it, and that's the extent of the government's involvement in your health-care.
The only problem with Medicare is inadequate funding.
Yeah, like big corporate has shown us any better.
Our national debt is what it is because of military spending and corporate giveaways. Social programs are tiny in comparison.
Single payer. Tax people for it. Leaner military (much). Let corporate America get itself out its own shit pile. It works in other countries - not perfectly, but much better than what we have. We can improve on their systems if we stop listening to folks who say that what we have is the best we can hope for. Useless blather.
We have to try it. No choice...other than failure, which is our current trajectory.
The military budget will never go down. The defense contractors have way too much influence, and so many jobs are connected to the MIC that Congresspeople from those districts will never vote to cut funding. Then poll Americans and they'll squawk about the threat of terrorism and how we can't afford to cut spending. Michael Medved was on the radio complaining that the military budget is too low now-- I'm sure the other rightwing pundits are saying the same thing.
Ted, let's not waste anymmore time with Garfield. He's just a hired clown who's posting discredited nonsense on this site to try to compromise any meaningful disucssion.
q
Ted and Q,
Affirmative Q, did anyone notice how quickly Action Jackson62 dried up and blew away once we stopped feeding his attention monster?
"Our national debt is what it is because of military spending and corporate giveaways."
I agree.
"Single payer. Tax people for it. Leaner military (much). Let corporate America get itself out its own shit pile. "
If single payer replaces Medicare and corporate America quits getting bailed out and government can show us it knows how to spend wisely then I'll trust it.
Our national debt is much higher thanks to the government bailing out the private sector which you worship so much.
Reaganism is as dead as Reagan, son. Time to grow up and deal with reality like an adult.
q
Hey, don't blame Reagan. He didn't do all that government bailing out of the private sector. Reagan died in 2004 so he couldn't have done it in 2008. Mccain and Obama were the ones who voted to bailout the private sector and I oppose bailing out any sector. Go tell Obama to stop bailing out the private sector first and then single payer can be funded. Oh, and get rid of Medicare since single payer would replace it.
How old are you? Reagan's bailout of the private sector took the form of a bloated military budget.
My comments about Reagan refer to your repeated complaints about government involvement in healthcare.
Go study some history.
q
I'm 35 but tell me who supported bailing out Chrysler, Reagan or Carter? That's right, CARTER ! Study history? Reagan never bailed out the private sector. I don't support his bloated military budget but who has bothered to trim it since Reagan? And what about all that Medicare D stuff? Sorry dude but you gotta government that can't manage healthcare. I'll stick to the healthcare insurance companies that my employer provides until big government can show otherwise.
...or until you're laid off.
Not all employers are able to provide health insurance, nor should they be expected to. They can't possibly keep up with the costs, nor can the average citizen. A self-employed friend pays $700 a month for coverage yet has to pay a $500 deductible for an upcoming routine annual diagnostic test. Copays and deductibles keep rising, so even people who have "coverage" often can't afford to go to the doctor.
I'm just preaching to the choir here, but I don't understand how so many can't see this and want the for-profit system, which benefits only the greedy insurance executives and not those they cover, to change. Did LG not see Bill Moyers' interview with Wendell Potter, former VP of Cigna?
NMLIB, Wendell Potter was discussed in today's article "Health Insurance Whistle-Blower Knows Where the Bodies Are Buried" by Amy Goodman. LG's response to Amy's article was a lame brained one so I doubt that he has bothered to try seeing the interview you mentioned. He sounds more like a cornfed troll.