Get News & Views Updates
Most Popular This Week
Popular content
Today's Top News
Iran and Leftist Confusion
When I returned from covering the Iranian elections recently, I was surprised to find my email box filled with progressive authors, academics and bloggers bending themselves into knots about the current crisis in Iran. They cite the long history of U.S. interference in Iran and conclude that the current unrest there must be sponsored or manipulated by the Empire.
That comes as quite a shock to those risking their lives daily on the streets of major Iranian cities fighting for political, social and economic justice.
Some of these authors have even cited my book, The Iran Agenda, as a source to prove U.S. meddling. Whoa there, pardner. Now we're getting personal.
The large majority of American people, particularly leftists and progressives, are sympathetic to the demonstrators in Iran, oppose Iranian government repression and also oppose any U.S. military or political interference in that country. But a small and vocal number of progressives are questioning that view, including authors writing for Monthly Review online, Foreign Policy Journal, and prominent academics such as retired professor James Petras.
They mostly argue by analogy. They correctly cite numerous examples of CIA efforts to overthrow governments, sometimes by manipulating mass demonstrations. But past practice is no proof that it's happening in this particular case. Frankly, the multi-class character of the most recent demonstrations, which arose quickly and spontaneously, were beyond the control of the reformist leaders in Iran, let alone the CIA.
Let's assume for the moment that the U.S. was trying to secretly manipulate the demonstrations for its own purposes. Did it succeed? Or were the protests reflecting 30 years of cumulative anger at a reactionary system that oppresses workers, women, and ethnic minorities, indeed the vast majority of Iranians? Is President Mahmood Ahmadinejad a "nationalist-populist," as claimed by some, and therefore an ally against U.S. domination around the world? Or is he a repressive, authoritarian leader who actually hurts the struggle against U.S. hegemony?
Let's take a look. But first a quick note.
As far as I can tell none of these leftist critics have actually visited Iran, at least not to report on the recent uprisings. Of course, one can have an opinion about a country without first-hand experience there. But in the case of recent events in Iran, it helps to have met people. It helps a lot.
The left-wing Doubting Thomas arguments fall into three broad categories.
1. Assertion: President Mahmood Ahmadinejad won the election, or at a minimum, the opposition hasn't proved otherwise.
Michael Veiluva, Counsel at the Western States Legal Foundation (representing his own views) wrote on the Monthly Review website:
"[U.S. peace groups] are quick to denounce the elections as ‘massively fraudulent' and generally subscribe to the ‘mad mullah' stereotype of the current political system in Iran. There is a remarkable convergence between the tone of these statements and the American right who are hypocritically beating their chests over Iran's ‘stolen' election.
Bartle Professor (Emeritus) of Sociology at Binghamton University, New York, James Petras wrote:
"[N]ot a single shred of evidence in either written or observational form has been presented either before or a week after the vote count. During the entire electoral campaign, no credible (or even dubious) charge of voter tampering was raised."
Actually, Iranians themselves were very worried about election fraud prior to the vote count. When I covered the 2005 elections, Ahmadinejad barely edged out Mehdi Karoubi in the first round of elections. Karoubi raised substantive arguments that he was robbed of his place in the runoff due to vote fraud. But under Iran's clerical system, there's no meaningful appeal. So, as he put it, he took his case to God.
On the day of the 2009 election, election officials illegally barred many opposition observers from the polls. The opposition had planned to use text messaging to communicate local vote tallies to a central location. The government shut down SMS messaging! So the vote count was entirely dependent on a government tally by officials sympathetic to the incumbent.
I heard many anecdotal accounts of voting boxes arriving pre-stuffed and of more ballots being printed than are accounted for in the official registration numbers. It seems unlikely that the Iranian government will allow meaningful appeals or investigations into the various allegations about vote rigging.
A study by two professors at Chatham House and the Institute of Iranian Studies at University of St. Andrews, Scotland, took a close look at the official election results and found some major discrepancies. For Ahmadinejad to have sustained his massive victory in one third of Iran's provinces, he would have had to carry all his supporters, all new voters, all voters previously voting centrist and about 44% of previous reformist voters.
Keep in mind that Ahmadinejad's victory takes place in the context of a highly rigged system. The Guardian Council determines which candidates may run based on their Islamic qualifications. As a result, no woman has ever been allowed to campaign for president and sitting members of parliament were disqualified because they had somehow become un-Islamic.
The constitution of Iran created an authoritarian theocracy in which various elements of the ruling elite could fight out their differences, sometimes through elections and parliamentary debate, sometimes through violent repression. Iran is a classic example of how a country can have competitive elections without being democratic.
2. Assertion: The U.S. has a long history of meddling in Iran, so it must be behind the current unrest.
Jeremy R. Hammond writes in the progressive website Foreign Policy Journal:
"[G]iven the record of U.S. interference in the state affairs of Iran and clear policy of regime change, it certainly seems possible, even likely, that the U.S. had a significant role to play in helping to bring about the recent turmoil in an effort to undermine the government of the Islamic Republic.
Eric Margolis, a columnist for Quebecor Media Company in Canada and a contributor to The Huffington Post, wrote:
"While the majority of protests we see in Tehran are genuine and spontaneous, Western intelligence agencies and media are playing a key role in sustaining the uprising and providing communications, including the newest electronic method, via Twitter. These are covert techniques developed by the US during recent revolutions in Ukraine and Georgia that brought pro-US governments to power."
Both authors cite numerous cases of the U.S. using covert means to overthrow legitimate governments. The CIA engineered large demonstrations, along with assassinations and terrorist bombings, to cause confusion and overthrow the parliamentary government of Iran' Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh in 1953. The U.S. used similar methods in an effort to overthrow Hugo Chavez in Venezuela in 2002. (For more details, see my book, Dateline Havana: The Real Story of US Policy and the Future of Cuba.)
Hammond cites my book The Iran Agenda and my interview on Democracy Now to show that the Bush Administration was training and funding ethnic minorities in an effort to overthrow the Iranian government in 2007.
All the arguments are by analogy and implication. Neither the above two authors, nor anyone else of whom I am aware, offers one shred of evidence that the Obama Administration has engineered, or even significantly influenced, the current demonstrations.
Let's look at what actually happened on the ground. Tens of millions of Iranians went to bed on Friday, June 12, convinced that either Mousavi had won the election outright or that there would be runoff between him and Ahmadinejad. They woke up Saturday morning and were stunned. "It was a coup d'etat," several friends told me. The anger cut across class lines and went well beyond Mousavi's core base of students, intellectuals and the well-to-do.
Within two days hundreds of thousands of people were demonstrating peacefully in the streets of Tehran and other major cities. Could the CIA have anticipated the vote count, and on two days notice, mobilized its nefarious networks? Does the CIA even have the kind of extensive networks that would be necessary to control or even influence such a movement? That simultaneously gives the CIA too much credit and underestimates the independence of the mass movement.
As for the charge that the CIA is providing advanced technology like Twitter, pleaaaaaase. In my commentary carried on Reuters, I point out that the vast majority of Iranians have no access to Twitter and that the demonstrations were mostly organized by cell phone and word of mouth.
Many Iranians do watch foreign TV channels via satellite. A sat dish costs only about $100 with no monthly fees, so they are affordable even to the working class. Iranians watched BBC, VOA and other foreign channels in Farsi, leading to government assertions of foreign instigation of the demonstrations. By that logic, Ayatollah Khomeini received support from Britain in the 1979 revolution because of BBC radio's critical coverage of the despotic Shah.
Frankly, based on my observations, no one was leading the demonstrations. During the course of the week after the elections, the mass movement evolved from one protesting vote fraud into one calling for much broader freedoms. You could see it in the changing composition of the marches. There were not only upper middle class kids in tight jeans and designer sun glasses. There were growing numbers of workers and women in very conservative chadors.
Iranian youth particularly resented President Ahmadinejad's support for religious militia attacks on unmarried young men and women walking together and against women not covering enough hair with their hijab. Workers resented the 24 percent annual inflation that robbed them of real wage increases. Independent trade unionists were fighting for decent wages and for the right to organize.
Some demonstrators wanted a more moderate Islamic government. Others advocated a separation of mosque and state, and a return to parliamentary democracy they had before the 1953 coup. But virtually everyone believes that Iran has the right to develop nuclear power, including enriching uranium. Iranians support the Palestinians in their fight against Israeli occupation, and they want to see the U.S. get out of Iraq.
So if they CIA was manipulating the demonstrators, it was doing a piss poor job.
Of course, the CIA would like to have influence in Iran. But that's a far cry from saying it does have influence. By proclaiming the omnipotence of U.S. power, the leftist critics ironically join hands with Ahmadinejad and the reactionary clerics who blame all unrest on the British and U.S.
3. Assertion: Ahmadinejad is a nationalist-populist who opposes U.S. imperialism. Efforts to overthrow him only help the U.S.
James Petras wrote: "Ahmadinejad's strong position on defense matters contrasted with the pro-Western and weak defense posture of many of the campaign propagandists of the opposition...."
"Ahmadinejad's electoral success, seen in historical comparative perspective should not be a surprise. In similar electoral contests between nationalist-populists against pro-Western liberals, the populists have won. Past examples include Peron in Argentina and, most recently, Chavez of Venezuela, [and] Evo Morales in Bolivia."
Venezuela's Foreign Ministry wrote on its website:
"The Bolivarian Government of Venezuela expresses its firm opposition to the vicious and unfounded campaign to discredit the institutions of the Islamic Republic of Iran, unleashed from outside, designed to roil the political climate of our brother country. From Venezuela, we denounce these acts of interference in the internal affairs of the Islamic Republic of Iran, while demanding an immediate halt to the maneuvers to threaten and destabilize the Islamic Revolution."
From 1953-1979, the Shah of Iran brutally repressed his own people and aligned himself with the U.S. and Israel. After the 1979 Islamic Revolution, Iran brutally repressed its own people and broke its alliance with the U.S. and Israel. That apparently causes confusion for some on the left.
I have written numerous articles and books criticizing U.S. policy on Iran, including Bush administration efforts to overthrow the Islamic government. The U.S. raises a series of phony issues, or exaggerates problems, in an effort to impose its domination on Iran. (Examples include Iran's nuclear power program, support for Hamas and Hezbollah, and support for Shiite groups in Iraq.)
During his past four years in office, Ahmadinejad has ramped up Iran's anti-imperialist rhetoric and posed himself as a leader of the Islamic world. That accounts for his fiery rhetoric against Israel and his denial of the Holocaust. (Officially, Ahmadinejad "questions" the Holocaust and says "more study is necessary." That reminds me of the creationists who say there needs to be more study because evolution is only a theory.) As pointed out by the opposition candidates, Ahmadinejad's rhetoric about Israel and Jews has only alienated people around the world and made it more difficult for the Palestinians.
But in the real world, Ahmadinejad has done nothing to support the Palestinians other than sending some funds to Hamas. Despite rhetoric from the U.S. and Israel, Iran has little impact on a struggle that must be resolved by Palestinians and Israelis themselves.
So comparing Ahmadinejad with Chavez or Evo Morales is absurd. I have reported from both Venezuela and Bolivia numerous times. Those countries have genuine mass movements that elected and kept those leaders in power. They have implemented significant reforms that benefitted workers and farmers. Ahmadinejad has introduced 24% annual inflation and high unemployment.
As for the position of Venezuela and President Hugo Chavez, they are simply wrong. On a diplomatic level, Venezuela and Iran share some things in common. Both are under attack from the U.S., including past efforts at "regime change." Venezuela and other governments around the world will have to deal with Ahmadinejad as the de facto president, so questioning the election could cause diplomatic problems.
But that's no excuse. Chavez has got it exactly backward. The popular movement in the streets will make Iran stronger as it rejects outside interference from the U.S. or anyone else.
This is no academic debate or simply fodder for bored bloggers. Real lives are at stake. A repressive government has killed at least 17 Iranians and injured hundreds. The mass movement may not be strong enough to topple the system today but is sowing the seeds for future struggles.
The leftist critics must answer the question: Whose side are you on?
- Posted in
Comments
Note: Disqus 2012 is best viewed on an up to date browser. Click here for information. Instructions for how to sign up to comment can be viewed here. Our Comment Policy can be viewed here. Please follow the guidelines. Note to Readers: Spam Filter May Capture Legitimate Comments...


178 Comments so far
Show AllThanks, Skip. Seems like these clowns have made a concerted effort to distract me. I guess they didn't like what I actually said and thus had to create a diversion.
Keep on keeping on, friend. You've been doing great in here. This has been a tense clash between otherwise good people. I'm sad it came to this, tho. It shouldn't have.
Thanks, Skip. I enjoy your posts, too. A la prochaine!
Oregoncharles
I can read posts better when they're paragraphed. Some folks are fine with Clovis' style. Do whatever suits you, Clovis. Your comments are usually quite good so I deal with what is for me a minor inconvenience. Why are some posters so rude, here?
Thanks, OC. I normally post my comments during breaks from my "real" work at the computer. Of course if I intended to publish them I would create paragraphs and certainly revise them beforehand. The lack of paragraph breaks is due more than anything else to the haste with which I write the posts. But since you're more polite about it than the others, I'll try to make more of an effort in future to space things out a bit.
Have you considered that posting comments that are unreadable is also a form of rudeness?
I have no comments on your post, because I am not going to read it.
Neither the Greeks nor the Romans were using computers on the internet. Proust was not writing computers on the internet. And you are NOT Marcel Proust.
There is a huge difference between reading text on the internet, on a computer screen, than on a book.
Blow it out your ass, dude. "Proust was not writing computers on the Internet"? "Reading text ... on a book?" Are you even a native English speaker? Somebody call the Grammar Police!
I guess I needn't worry about you finding my posts "unreadable." They're obviously over your head.
I asked this a few days ago, but got no actual answer...is there a way to prove these funds for the destabilization of Iran have been used, and used under Obama's time in office?
clovis,
"This article does absolutely nothing to refute the claim of us "wayward leftists" that no evidence of fraud has been presented". Fraud? What fraud?
"And it is unfortunate that the puppetmasters have exploited what I am sure are true yearnings for greater freedom on the part of many Iranians". True Yearnings? What true Yearnings? Greater freedom? What freedom? Many Iranians? How many if at all?
Why, the fraud that has been alleged in the Iranian elections, of course.
As for your second question, I merely meant, as many have said, that even if the current Iranian uprising was stoked by US meddling--which does seem to have been the case--it has nevertheless come to express something that well transcends the cynical strategic aims of those who have putatively manipulated them, this "something" being, of course, the wish for a less oppressive society than the one currently offered by the mullahs. Wouldn't you agree? I deplore the fingerwagging and hypocrisy of the West on this issue, and even suspect the motives of some of the Iranian demonstrators, and yet I still think most of them are probably sincere in their desire for a freer society, even if it does play into the hands of American and international-capitalist geopolitical schemes. What I do not buy, however, is the insistence, as articulated in the current article under discussion, that we of the "left" must somehow support, or refrain from criticizing, what appears to be a Machiavellian gambit on the part of US/CIA/NED meddlers. Nor should we accept the notion--with all its disastrous, historic examples--that the US has any right whatsoever to interfere in the electoral processes of other countries.
clovis,
What I get from your answer is " and even suspect(!) the motives(!) of some of the Iranian demonstrators and yet I still think most of them are probably(!) sincere(!) in their desire for a freer society".
So the demonstrations by millions Iranians on the streets after 3-4 bloody attemps for freedom and democracy in over a hundred years is "suspect!", their "motives !" questioned and most of them are "probably !!" "sincere !!", all because America may take advantage of it and the "left" will not be happy with that.
Man, what are you drinking?
Dear Fool II (nomen omen, as they say), you, like quickstepper, are trying to impute to my words things I never said. I'll have none of it.
I will point out, however, that you exaggerate when you say "millions" of Iranians. But the subject has been covered fairly exhaustively. If you have any questions, do a little more reading.
Dear clovis,
These are your words: suspect, motives, probably, sincere. Check your post again. A nation fighting for its freedom is probably! sincere? Get off your arm chair, go to the streets and get killed, then look at the pictures of million people. Can you do that?
A "nation" fighting for its "freedom"? How do you know it's the whole "nation" and not just a handful of people? "Millions"? How do you know? And how do you know it's "freedom" they're fighting for and not the power to conduct free-market capitalism unfettered by concerns for the common weal?
clovis,
Freedom means freedom of choice. Read my response to amandla above. This opposition fully accepts the regime under different president. They are not for regime change and clearly state that. The rest is you peoples' imaginations.
so if they're not for regime change, and are basically okay with the theocracy, why again is it that those of us arguing your opposite are somehow supporting a theocratic regime by our stance when those very same Iranians you parade before us are doing the same thing? again, this is about a contested election and the veracity of it. It always was, and always will be, but the fact of the matter is that you don't have a bloody case. And so it comes to this.
by the way, conceptions of freedom are different and complicated. "freedom of choice", besides being a Devo song, can be everything to the American freedom to choose between two types of Oreos and the Soviet freedom to choose between two candidates of the CP. I'd like to think you understand that there's more to it than that.
clovis and Skip_Townes,
If we had an impartial supreme court nobody would be complaining about the Florida Election. This is exactly the situation in Iran.
Both sides claim full support for the regime, at least at this stage of the game. So your support of either side, at this stage is support of theocracy.
Again this is not the issue for Iranians. The issue is that the official court was biased and ruled without carefully considering and intentionally not looking at the documents and evidence.
At this stage it is a fight between to elite groups with many people taking advantage,trying to bring Ahmadinejad's group down. And this is a very large group, a mixture of whoever is not happy with the government and many many of them still religious.
Ofcourse Ahmadinejad has a large following plus all the militia and money but the past elections have shown that his support has been about half of the opposition.
Reading anything more to it is just imagination.
I don't read anything more into it more than what you just posted. I'm perfectly fine with that narrative. I don't even know why you replied, since I'm basically saying the same thing. But there is stilla class issue in terms of defending the electoal process against unfounded accusations of fraud. And this might be where there is confusion.
And the evidence shows that many millions voted for Ahmanijadad.
Now if Mousavi won and millions of Ahmanijadads supporters took to the streets when he called them to and when he called the elections a fraud...
Would you be suppporting Ahmanijadad and claim the elections a fraud and claim the peoples protesting on his behalf "yearn for freedom and fight for democracy" ?
Unless you missed it there have been many rallies in SUPPORT of Ahmanijadad.
What YOUR or MY personal feelings are towards respective Iranian leaders and or the Theocracy of iran has NOTHING to do with whether or not the elections stolen.
A very informative article. I agree with most, if not all, of the assertions made, but I have a few questions or misgivings that still remain.
"So if they CIA was manipulating the demonstrators, it was doing a piss poor job".
This makes me suspicious the CIA is actually involved. I have difficulty remembering a time the CIA did anything but a "piss poor job."
I realize Ahmadinejad is a fanatic, not unlike Evangelical fanatics in this country. But all we see is from Tehran. Are there no cell phones in the rest of the country? What is happening in Qom? It's difficult for me to look at what appears to be middle-class workers, students and women from one urban environment and not get the feeling, somehow, we're being played....by somebody...maybe our own government. Let's not forget the "soft revolution" George Bush instigated during his administration. There has been no statement on this policy from the current administration. One liners and media friendly quips from CIA officials don't count. I would like to see a statement of policy from the White House stating clearly that the CIA action instigated by Bush The Younger is no longer part of the US Foreign Policy.
I can only hope the Iranian government can sort this out and respond responsibly to the demand for civil rights. I hope our government and the mainstream media are not exploiting these people for profit and political opportunism.
Leftist answers question: whose side are you on?
I'm always on the side of the poor against the rich. ("The rich are the scum of the earth in every country"--G. K. Chesterton, conservative Catholic writer and thinker)
Problem with the French Revolution is it didn't go nearly far enough.
And if someone poorer than you deems you to be rich, and decides that you really need to be guillotined, I take it that you will willingly walk there? Since you are on the side of the poor.
Balzac (or was it Dickens?) said that under every great fortune lies an unspeakable crime.
And, just to add to godistwaddle's comment, to say that the "French Revolution didn't go far enough" in no way implies that he (or she) was in favor of the summary executions that characterized the Reign of Terror. I took his (or her) comment to be strictly ideological, and I agree with it. The French Revolution was a bourgeois revolution. If godistwaddle had intended the murderous intentions you impute to him (or her), he (or she) would or should have said "the Reign of Terror didn't go far enough," and I sincerely doubt that the poster meant to say this.
Good point. But to be clear, you would advocate the same treatment for yourself, as one of the richest people on the planet, that you would advocate to those richer than you--whatever it may be.
Yes, no matter how poor we in America are (and I'm pretty poor, I make net $17K a year in my current job), we're far richer than the majority of the people on this planet.
So what the heck is godistwaddle advocating? What the heck are you advocating? And would either of you have a problem applying what you advocate to yourself?
Hedges analysis is persuasive. Left conspiratorial theories based on presumptions rather than evidence do not serve progressives well. Paranoia, whether on the left or the right, is sad.Let's not invalidate the cause of the protesters.
I'm personally all for invalidating the cause of the protestors if their claim is wrong, which so far, I think it is. I do agree with you very much on conspiracism, but that's been a crime everyone's committed at this point. Unavoidable given the amazing rush to judgment that flooded out at the moment the election ended and the subsequent mess of bad or incomplete information utilized to create a quickly drying myth. This is the price of jumping the gun.
Clovis, which two stolen elections are you referring to? I can think on only one.
2000 and 2004 were both stolen. 2000 in Florida, 2004 in Ohio, to say nothing of the many irregularities in other states. The Ohio fraud was well documented by Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman, and many of their articles and studies were posted here on CD. Some people have even gone to jail over Ohio.
"I heard many anecdotal accounts of voting boxes arriving pre-stuffed and of more ballots being printed than are accounted for in the official registration numbers."
-Florida or Ohio?
"This is no academic debate or simply fodder for bored bloggers. Real lives are at stake. A repressive government has killed at least 17 Iranians and injured hundreds."
-Iraq or Afghanistan, killed 100s of thousands and injured millions?
The US may not have started this whole mess but only a complete moron would believe that the US is not capable and eager to exploit any situation anywhere to further its own agenda. This would be particularly true if the country in question has resources such as OIL and is adjacent to areas of geopolitical importance.
"Iranian officials have declared the hotly disputed presidential election to be correct after a partial recount.
State television reports that Guardian Council Secretary Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati presented Minister of the Interior Sadegh Mahsouli a letter Monday saying the council has approved the election after a recount of 10 percent of the ballots."
And anyone who holds thoughts to the contrary will lose their head!
Hooman Majd's recent comments on Salon.com are a much better corrective to both "left" and "right" REACTION to events in Iran than this garbage.
REACTION is exactly what is happening. There are very few people on this site or anywhere else that have bothered to keep abreast of the situation in Iran since 1979 or even read a single speech or writing by Khomeini, or know one wit about the constitutional debate that underlies the present controversy. People are just passing half-concocted press reports, ill-constructed opinions, hearsay, rumors, myths and fantasies back a forth like bags of halloween candy. The burden of ignorance in America is far more oppressive than the water-cannons and truncheons of the interor ministry on the streerts of Tehran.
"Chatham House and the Institute of Iranian Studies at University of St. Andrews, Scotland"- I heard guys from these places ranting on the BBC- totally skewed and uninformative.
Besides calling everyone on here an ignorant pig, did you at some point have something substantive to say other than that you're somehow mysteriously superior?
And you point to a piece on Salon as the epicenter of informed reason? Is there an objection to me thinking you're an idiot? This "discussion" goes back two weeks. And there have been vastly finer points and opinions made in that time by several points of view than the opinion grenade you jsut lobbed.
The trolls always seem to devise new means to change the subject of a thread.
Whenever so much effort is exerted in the manner demonstrated here, 9 times out of 10 the article contains a high degree of validity which should be discussed as it appears, not pushed aside by spurious slants.
I know Reese personally and have discussed many issues with him over time and I have always found him full of integrity. He states what he sees. He brings the insight of being 'on the ground'. Iranian friends of mine tend to agree with these observations of his. I was initially surprised to hear this take on the issues from them, but their sharing of news from friends and relatives helped me see a little differently.
Just a thought.
There is nothing that gores a progressive's/liberal's pet theory developed in a vacuum, than a different point of view, which may or may not be valid. It is usually always condemned out of hand using innuendos and casting aspersions rather than opting for objective discussion.
Has "the trolls" now mutated into code for "my opponents"? Seriously. Wtf?
Your first point: You bitch about validity, and your rigorous test for determing validity is apparently the degree to which passion is expended in length? Are you serious? That's not an argument. It's a dismissal.
Your second point is that you know the author and he's a nice guy. I would agree that people who vomit out things like "cia hack" are simply jerking their knees, and if that's who you are referring to, then your point is fine to that end. But the bulk of these posts aren't like that. I actually thought it was a decent piece, but as has been for these past couple of weeks, the central premise is highly contested, and I think your version is losing ground.
Your third point is also non-argumentative. If we disagree with you, we're casting aspersions. Thanks for leaving us so much room for "objective" discussion.
You have two camps--with a solid amoutn of overlap between them--that challenge your narrative of a rigged election resisted by a noble force of Iraqi everypersons. The first camp, and i think the smallest, are those who simply assume that the US/UK etc. have engineered the whole thing. By focusing on those people you and most of the liberal writers who have lectured us relentlessly over the past two weeks are going for the lowest hanging fruit possible. I think this disingenuous.
The other camp, where I would be, consists of those who thought that mainstream liberals once more projected a vision of reality that might not have existed, ran withthe first ball that sounded good from the MSM, and ran with that ball deep into the night. That the election was rigged was an assumption driving most of the points of view early on, but it was an assumption without sufficient proof, and an assumption with some strong agrgument against it. Instead of engaging there, large numbers of self-congratulating jerk offs started immediately setting up the strawman of "how can you be a lefty and love a theocracy!" argument. It was BS then, and it's BS now.
THe price of being wrong on your central assumption--regardless of how many well-heeled Iranians you "know" (as if any other kind show up to our universities, right?)--is that you were, in fact, advocating the overturning of a reasonably democratic electoral process because you most strongly identified both with the narrative from the dissenters as well as, frankly, their class.
At least engage us here if you think us wrong.
"THe price of being wrong on your central assumption--regardless of how many well-heeled Iranians you "know" "
Yes, because any Iranian saying things that disagree with your ideas is "well-heeled" and "urban cosmopolitan".
Why are you not supporting the people who are trying to organise independent labour unions? Who want workers to have the right to organise?
answered above. there is no contradiction. i will support popular determination first and foremost, because I expect the same courtesy in my own land.
I would think Reese Erlich could write better than this, but this is all he came up with.
1. Reese Erlich certainly knows the US government, CIA, have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to overthrow the Iranian government. But he argues that just because the US does that elsewhere, and in Iran before, doesn't mean the US, CIA is doing it now.
That is a lot Reese is asking us to swallow.
2. Reese writes, "Let's assume for the moment that the U.S. was trying to secretly manipulate the demonstrations for its own purposes. Did it succeed? Or were the protests reflecting 30 years of cumulative anger at a reactionary system that oppresses workers, women, and ethnic minorities, indeed the vast majority of Iranians?"
There is no reason to hve these two questions opposed in this way. They can both easily be true. US government agencies obviously used legitimate grievances in Eastern Europe to serve its purposes to topple the pro-Soviet regimes and establish pro-US governments. That does not mean the revolts were CIA creations.
3. There is no evidence the Obama administration "engineered or significantly influenced the demonstrations." Likewise, it could be said about Honduras coup. Shall we just wait until the documents come out? Do we think the US government is not intimately involved with what just went on in Iran and Honduras?
4. Erlish uses a fair amount of prejudical rhetoric about Ahmadinejad. The fact is the Iranian govenrment has sent aid to Hamas. The US and Israel imprison the Gazans. The Egyptian government helps institute the blockade. Let's cut the rhetoric - do you support the blockade of Gaza or do you support sending them aid?
5. Finally, if Reese wants to ask 'Which side are you on?" let's see what Chavez says:
"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has accused the CIA of being behind anti-government protests rocking Iran, and repeated his support for Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Chavez, who has tried to cultivate ties with the Islamic republic, said the “imperial hand” of the US Central Intelligence Agency — and of Europe — was behind post-election clashes that had killed at least 17 people.
“People are in the streets, some are dead, they have snipers, and behind this is the CIA, the imperial hand of European countries and the United States,” he said, “from my point of view that is what is happening in Iran.”
Chavez urges 'respect' for Iran election outcome:
"We call on the world to respect Iran because there are attempts to undermine the strength of the Iranian revolution," said Chavez on Sunday in his weekly radio and television address.
The Venezuelan Foreign Ministry also issued a statement blasting "the fierce and unfounded campaign from outside [of Iran] to discredit" Iran's president.
Hugo Chavez called Mahmoud Ahmadinejad "a courageous fighter for the Islamic Revolution, the defense of the Third World, and in the struggle against imperialism" - a reference to the US government's foreign policy. (AP)
There has been a major imperialist campaign against Iran. That is the primary issue for us who live here in the US. It is not whether or not we support the demonstrators, whether the election was accurate, etc.
The question, "Whose side are you on?" is - are you for or against this imperialist campaign to overthrown the Iranian government? Are you more comfortable on the same side as Israel, the US government, Saudi Arabia, Britain, Germany, or on the same side as Venezuela, Cuba, Hezbollah.
Very good post, Stan. Thanks for laying it out so clearly. I would only add, in reference to your last two sentences, that "we" needn't be on anyone's "side," but only on the side of truth and justice. We can be against this imperialist campaign to overthrow the Iranian government without being "on the side" of the Iranian government, just as we could passionately oppose going to war against Iran without having the least bit of sympathy for Saddam Hussein.
Excellent, and the level of discourse that had already occurred that I alluded to at the top.
I will answer the question posed at the end of this piece:
As with Honduras--where School of the Americas gorillas and the oligarchy physically assaulted and kidnapped the elected president--I do not support coups, whether they are troglodite gorillas or "color me green" Tehranis.
You either support the rule of law or you don't.
I support the elected presidents in both Iran (the incumbent) and Honduras.
Considering that the USites allowed the Bush Gang to steal TWO elections, no USite has any business commenting about democracies.
"Considering that the USites allowed the Bush Gang to steal TWO elections, no USite has any business commenting about democracies."
So, why comment about Honduras? Do the Honduran people not have a right to non-interference from the rest of the world?
The U.S. has indeed interfered inside Iran through the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and using Nothern Iraq as one of the outposts for intrusion inside Iran. Twitter is another technological device used by opposition groups funded and supported by the U.S. This opposition started during the Bush years and has continued into the Obama administration. Consult the following article written by Michael Barker "Catalyst for Iranian Resistance" on December 18, 2006 at: http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/2501
Yes, the NED and meddling by the U.S. has been present in Iran for a number of years no matter what anyone suggests otherwise, and I do not care whether that individual is on the left or the right spectrum. Here is part of Barker's article:
"The 2005 Iranian election was "met with worldwide approval." It was, it seemed, a signal to the rest of the world that Iran was preparing itself for a more western style of democratic governance. But, despite the apparent legitimacy of the elections, it became evident in February 2006 that the US administration was now in "Iranian democracy promoting mode." It was then that Condoleezza Rice first announced she was requesting $85 million from Congress for the newly formed Office of Iranian Affairs. This initiative built upon the earlier activism of Senators Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) and John Cornyn (R-Texas) who had introduced the Iran Freedom and Support Act of 2004 which declared the need for democracy and regime change in Iran. However, to date the NED's activities in Iran (which are carried out openly and even described on their website) have not even been mentioned in the media. Their "democratic" rhetoric seems to have worked its wonders and allowed the NED to completely slip under the radar of the world's media. In fact, even before the advent of the Iran Freedom and Support Act the NED had been openly meddling in Iranian affairs. According to the NED's online project database five Iranian groups received NED aid prior to 2004: the Iran Teachers Association, the Foundation for Democracy in Iran, the National Iranian American Council, the Women's Learning Partnership, and the Abdorrahaman Boroumand Foundation. Therefore, in a bid to understand what US-led "democracy" will mean for Iran, the activities of each of these organisations will now be examined in turn....The Iran Teachers Association (ITA) was one of the first Iranian groups to receive NED aid. Between 1991 and 2003 they were the recipients of seven NED grants. These grants – worth a total of just over $300,000 – were distributed to support the ITA's quarterly cultural and political journal, Mehregan. In 1992 the neoconservative Bradley Foundation provided them with a further $25,000 grant to help build a democratic Iran. Unfortunately, due to the closure of their website little other information has been obtained regarding their activities....The next recipient of NED largess was the US-based Foundation for Democracy in Iran (FDI), which was founded in 1995 by Kenneth Timmerman, Peter Rodman and Joshua Muravchick(with the assistance of some unidentified Iranian exiles). The FDI received their first $50,000 grant from the NED in 1995, which was used to support their work in "document[ing and publicising] the human rights situation inside Iran through first-hand monitoring." The following year they received their second NED grant ($25,000), which enabled them to continue their documentation of human rights violations, which were to "be aired through international broadcast services such as the Voice of America and the BBC, in both English and Farsi." The value of these start-up funds, not to mention the power of an NED endorsement, must have been invaluable to the FDI as a budding "democracy promoter.""
Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote on June 11, 2009, in an article entitled "State Department Backs 'Reformists' in Wild Iranian Election" at Newsmax that:
"And then, there’s the talk of a “green revolution” in Tehran, named for the omnipresent green scarves and banners that fill the air at Mousavi campaign events....The National Endowment for Democracy has spent millions of dollars during the past decade promoting “color” revolutions in places such as Ukraine and Serbia, training political workers in modern communications and organizational techniques....Some of that money appears to have made it into the hands of pro-Mousavi groups, who have ties to non-governmental organizations outside Iran that the National Endowment for Democracy funds...."
Read Timmerman's entire article @ http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/Iran_election_Reformists/2009/06/11/224025.html
Obama is not so innocent here folks regarding Iran. Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton are ardent anti-Iranian foes, to say the least, as they make continued threats towards bombing Iran. Have a good day and stay away from that Kool-Aid. Anyone who thinks the U.S. has nothing to do with the current unrest in Iran is either dumb or quite naive.
Hm, Newsmax is a pretty biased right-wing magazine, I would not trust jack that it publishes. And training citizens in repressive countries in political and communications skills doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. Maybe we should do that more in our country too.
As Michael Barker pointed out above, Mr. Kenneth Timmerman has been deeply involved in the destablizing of Iran effort dating back to the mid-1990s. Just because Timmerman writes at "biased right-wing magazine" named "Newsmax" means little. Actually, what Timmerman wrote is quite telling and revealing since he is on the inside of the U.S. anti-Iran policy and is an ardent neoconservative. Barer wrote that:
"the US-based Foundation for Democracy in Iran (FDI), which was founded in 1995 by Kenneth Timmerman, Peter Rodman and Joshua Muravchick(with the assistance of some unidentified Iranian exiles). The FDI received their first $50,000 grant from the NED in 1995, which was used to support their work in "document[ing and publicising] the human rights situation inside Iran through first-hand monitoring..."
I would say you are 100% wrong in this case regarding Newsmax and Mr. Kenneth Timmerman, who wrote a very revealing article regarding the motives of the U.S. State Department. I do not share the views of most of what Newsmax says either, but, when you have an individual who has worked on the inside of U.S. policy, one should not be that DUMB to dismiss it out of hand either! Good day.
So, a guy who was condemned for fearmongering about Iran's nuclear program, wrote a book about France's "betrayal" of the U.S. after the invasion in Iraq, and who claims to represent an Iranian democratic movement which is probably as fake as Chalabi's influence within Iraq was, is a credible source for what Obama, a Democrat, is doing to destabilize Iran. Um, I don't think so.
And what is it that the NED is doing that is so insidious? It looks to me like it's trying to create democratic political infrastructure inside Iran. What's wrong with that?
You just agreed with me that the NED has been involved inside Iran, and thus, does not at all border on the "so insidious."
Often times and in this case, especially on foreign policy issues, political elites running the show are in complete agreement, (regardless of political party) and this includes Iran. Check out the BiPartisan Council which deals in foreign affairs. There is plenty of cross-over agreement as well--just look at the Council on Foreign Relations in which members of both politcal parties take part and write similar screeds of world affairs. The IRI is the Republican arm of the NED and the NDI is the Democratic Party's arm of the NED as well. So, yes, it is not out of the ordinary that Mr. Timmerman and "Obama, a Democrat" are in agreement regarding efforts "to destabilize Iran."
Anyway, you have just acquiesced to my points, yet,perhaps, do not realize it. Take care and have a very nice evening.