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Today's Top News
The Neda Video, Torture, and the Truth-Revealing Power of Images
The single most significant event in shaping worldwide revulsion towards the violence of the Iranian government has been the video of the young Iranian woman bleeding to death, the so-called "Neda video." Like so many iconic visual images before it -- from My Lai, fire hoses and dogs unleashed at civil rights protesters, Abu Ghraib -- that single image has done more than the tens of thousands of words to dramatize the violence and underscore the brutality of the state response.
For the last question at his press conference yesterday, Obama was asked by CNN's Suzanne Malveaux about his reaction to that video and to reports that Iranians are refraining from protesting due to fear of such violence. As Obama was answering -- attesting to how "heartbreaking" he found the video; how "anybody who sees it knows that there's something fundamentally unjust" about the violence; and paying homage to "certain international norms of freedom of speech, freedom of expression" -- Helen Thomas, who hadn't been called on, interrupted to ask Obama to reconcile those statements about the Iranian images with his efforts at home to suppress America's own torture photos ("Then why won't you allow the photos --").
The President quickly cut her off with these remarks:
THE PRESIDENT: Hold on a second, Helen. That's a different question. (Laughter.)
The White House Press corps loves to laugh condescendingly at Helen Thomas because, tenaciously insisting that our sermons to others be applied to our own Government, she acts like a real reporter (exactly as -- according to Politico's Josh Gerstein -- White House reporters "could be seen rolling their eyes and shifting in their seats" when Obama called on The Huffington Post's Nico Pitney, who has done some of the most tireless work on Iran, gave voice to actual Iranians, and posed one of the toughest questions at the Press Conference). The premise of Thomas' question was compelling and (contrary to Obama's dismissal) directly relevant to Obama's answers: how is it possible for Obama to pay dramatic tribute to the "heartbreaking" impact of that Neda video in bringing to light the injustices of the Iranian Government's conduct while simultaneously suppressing images that do the same with regard to our own Government's conduct?
The reason Thomas' point matters so much is potently highlighted by a new poll from The Washington Post/ABC News released today -- not only the responses, but even more so, the question itself (click to enlarge image):
Half of the American citizenry is now explicitly pro-torture (and the question even specified that the torture would be used not against Terrorists, but "terrorist suspects"). Just think about what that says about how coarsened and barbaric our populace is and what types of abuses that entrenched mentality is certain to spawn in the future, particularly in the event of another terrorist attack. But even more meaningful is the question itself -- it's now normal and standard for pollsters to include among the various questions about garden-variety political controversies (health care, tax and spending policies, clean energy approaches) a question about whether one believes the U.S. Government should torture people (are you for or against government torture?) That's how normalized torture has become, how completely eroded the taboo is in the United States.
It would be one thing for the Obama administration to argue that there is no value in releasing torture photos specifically, and in investigating and imposing accountability for past abuses generally, if there were consensus among Americans that torture is wrong, barbaric and -- as Ronald Reagan put it (hypocritically but still emphatically) -- "an abhorrent practice" justifiable by "no exceptional circumstances whatsoever." But we have the opposite of that consensus: we have an ongoing debate over torture that is fluid, vibrant and far from settled, with half the population embracing the twisted and morally depraved pro-torture position. For that reason, to suppress evidence of what our torture actually looks like and the brutality it entails -- particularly graphic evidence -- is to make it easier for that pro-torture position to thrive, just as it would have been easier for the Iranian Government to slaughter protesters with impunity if they had succeeded in suppressing the images of what they were doing (it was this same dynamic that led the Israeli Army to defy its own Supreme Court and forcibly block reporters and photographers from entering Gaza and which caused the embedded American press to suppress images of the massive civilian deaths which their protectors, the U.S. military, was causing in Iraq).
Americans are able to perceive torture clinically and in the abstract when they're able to endorse it without seeing its effects. They're able to delude themselves that the extreme abuses at Abu Ghraib were unauthorized aberrations -- rather than the inevitable by-products of the policies they support -- because the photos showing that those abuses were systematically applied at American detention facilities around the world are being suppressed. It's almost certainly true that few pro-torture Americans are aware that the policies they support -- and that were approved at the highest levels of the U.S. government -- have led to numerous detainee deaths, because investigations into such matters are being blocked; court proceedings impeded; and media discussions confined almost exclusively to questions about "water in nostrils." If Americans want to endorse government torture, they should not be allowed to avert their gaze from what they're causing and be spared the facts and details of what is done.
* * * * *
On a related note, the critique I wrote of the NPR Ombudsman's defense of their decision not to use the word "torture" has been discussed in numerous places. There has also been an outburst of angry (though highly substantive and civil) criticisms from NPR listeners in the comment section of her column. As a result, we're in the process of inviting the Ombudsman, Alicia Shepard, to appear with me on Salon Radio to discuss her rationale. Ostensibly, the Ombudsman is not meant to be a spokesperson for NPR but a voice of NPR listeners. I would hope, then, that she'd be willing to engage and discuss the reaction which her column triggered (at the very least in her column, though even better, in an interactive discussion). I will post updates of any responses we receive to the invitation extended to her.
UPDATE: The media-manufactured (and, as always, right-wing-fueled) pseudo-controversy over Obama's "pre-coordinated" selection of Huffington Post's Pitney to ask a question is revealingly inane for many obvious reasons: Pitney's question was one of the most adversarial Obama was asked, and the establishment media reaction clearly stems from resentment over their perceived status being undermined by allowing The Huffington Post and, more to the point, an actual Iranian (rather than a self-anointed reporter-spokesperson for Iranians) to ask the President a question.
But equally revealing is their self-glorifying and delusional belief that only establishment media reporters are sufficiently Serious to be entitled to ask the President questions -- even as they fill Press Conferences with petty, vapid questions and otherwise endlessly reveal themselves to be substance-free and frivolous. Along those lines, The Washington Post claimed that "budgetary constraints" played a role in the firing of actually serious journalist Dan Froomkin, yet The Post spends money to produce and promote things like the below-posted video from "reporters" Dana Milbank and Chris Cillizza that has to be seen to be believed. Be forewarned: many will consider the video too petty to bother posting and virtually everyone will find it painfully irritating to watch. I agree with those assessments, but there is still something about it -- the oozing smugness, the view of politics as a juvenile game, the desperation to be above it all and too sophisticated to care, the total lack of self-awareness in failing to realize how embarrassingly unfunny it is -- that makes it a tour de force in illustrating what and who so much of the Washington media really are:
UPDATE II: We were told by NPR that the Ombudsman is out of the office this week and her office will get back to us by Monday with a response. Additionally, someone from the Ombudsman's office also just left the following note in the still-growing comment section to her column:
Dear Listeners;
Ms. Shepard is out of the office this week. I work closely with her and have been keeping up with all of your comments. Rest assured that when she returns she will respond to you.
In the meantime, I wanted to let you know that there is someone on the other end reading and receiving your phone calls and emails.
Best,
Anna Tauzin
Office of the Ombudsman
The feedback and pressure are obviously having some effect. I hope it continues; I would look forward to the opportunity to discuss Shepard's column with her in an interview.
UPDATE III: Bridging Update I and Update II: the Post's Dana Milbank was, completely unsurprisingly, one of the leaders in objecting to the Huffington Post/Pitney question. He's probably best advised to stick to Post-funded vaudeville videos. The Nation's Ari Melber has an excellent analysis of the petulant, self-absorped objections giving rise to the latest media chatter about this empty little scandal of the day.
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21 Comments so far
Show All"Helen Thomas, who hadn't been called on, interrupted to ask Obama to reconcile those statements about the Iranian images with his efforts at home to suppress America's own torture photos ("Then why won't you allow the photos --").
The President quickly cut her off with these remarks:
THE PRESIDENT: Hold on a second, Helen. That's a different question.
"
Isn't it interesting that both Obama and some of the anti-imperialist left consider the principle of the torture photos, and the pictures / videos of Neda agha Soltani as different. And that just as Obama wants to stop publication of the torture photos, some anti-imperialist leftist posters were howling in rage at the picture.
"to suppress evidence of what our torture actually looks like and the brutality it entails -- particularly graphic evidence -- is to make it easier for that pro-torture position to thrive..."
There are prohibitions (which have been violated) against the use of United States government propaganda against US citizens. I think Greenwald makes an excellent point here, one that made me think that the definition of propaganda, which typically includes the dissemination of information, could also include the manipulation of public opinion through the withholding of information.
and if Neda Soltani was shot by a saboteur and not an agent of the Iranian "government" as Glenn asserts, what then?
If the premise of Glenn's argument is that the US holds foreign governments to standards the US doesn't hold itself, does the comparisons between the US president's refusal to release photos of torture still hold relevance to Neda Soltani's image use in the Presidential press conference?
I believe for Glenn's argument to have relevance Glenn must continue an unsubstantiated allegation that the Iranian government gunned down Neda Soltani, and therefore Soltani's murder is representative of the Iranian Government as a whole,which lends Glenn a chance to stick his foot in the door and pry out his double-standard assertion while generally challenging the mockery and acceptance of torture among 50% of the general public.
When we risk forwarding unsubstantiated allegations of events so as to fit our own agenda, to what end will we travel?
Who killed Neda Soltani? Who shot video of her pre-shooting, and post-shooting video? Is it the same person? Who are the eye-witnesses to her shooting? Who is Hamed in the Netherlands (released video to youtube) and when and why did he seek political asylum? Who is his friend who shot the video? When these questions have not been answered how are we, Glenn, the president(?), certain Neda Soltani was gunned down by the "Iranian Government"-- because the alleged shooter was in plain clothes? Or was he/they on the rooftop?
These are valid questions about the authenticity of photos. On the other hand, were this not the work of the Iranian government, that government would remain responsible for the others they have killed and for stealing the election.
That said, neither of these constitutes any reason for the United States to try to score brownie points because someone else kills people too.
This is still a result of the American action in subverting Iranian democracy in 1953. That does not remove responsibility from the Iranian government, but it is a good reason to make sure that Americans do not enter Iranian politics again.
More directly to the point of this piece, the Western press, particularly the American press, regularly suppresses evidence that its corporate and governmental leaders find inconvenient. The possibility of provocateurs and leaked photos is real and significant and deserves attention, but is overall the lesser concern.
Let's see the photos. Let's see them and get the information about who shot what where and bring this all forward. Particularly, let's bring forward the photos of things in which we in the West share some measure of responsibility. By responsibility I mean something fairly specific: ability to respond. As long as we have some small hold on civic government and corporate purses, we need to see the blood to prevent it.
CORPORATE MEDIA - ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE; ENEMY OF DEMOCRACY.
The corporate media is fully complicit in the violent deaths of millions since the end of WW2. What is the apprpriate penalty for those convicted of being enemies of Democracy and propagandists in service to violent militarism and empire?
Nuremburg comes to mind. What do you think head propagansist Goebbels sentence would have been had he not "followed his leader" in the fuhrerbunker?
Even more insufferable than Cillizza and Milbank is that blowhard Chris Mathews.
Regarding the Iran protests: The CIA's been awfully quiet. Are the spooks just monitoring the situation or what? And what's happened with the $400 million that was to be used to destabilize Iran...????
George Bush similarly declared the United States would not use torture under any circumstances - only "harsh interrogation tactics" upon high level al Qaeda supporters whom we (magically) knew had valuable intelligence information that they were stubbornly refusing to give up.
This is a major problem I have with the WaPo/ABC public opinion poll question as the pollsters framed it. Glenn is absolutely correct in his major point: the idea that American society has been so coarsened, and the debate so warped by misuse of language, that roughly half the respondents DO think torture is just another policy option on the table for our leaders to contemplate using is both sickening and scary. But that worrisome, pro-torture half of the opinion sample includes a whole bunch of folks still caught up in the ticking time bomb fairy tale scenario, lumped alongside hard core base Bushies, many of whom reflexively will be against every position that Obama ostensibly has articulated and who embrace Bush's wink-and-a-nod linguistic relabeling effort.
Keep asking the questions this way, you'll keep getting skewed, ambiguous results.
Bill from Saginaw
Thanks Bill. I agree. Many of the knee jerk crowd believe that the TV show "24" represents reality and that every case of torture is to deal with a "ticking time bomb." Pretty sad and funny at the same time.
Sioux Rose
BILL/LOGARITHMIC: These TV shows (and similar movies) were created precisely to cause the wall of conscience to come down by creating (via drama) plausible scenarios (to some), that presented a rational case for the use of what no civilized society should utilize, no less tolerate. But then again, with our nation eager for war, and when none is on the horizon capable of rendering "evidence" to make it happen regardless, what's a little thing like torture? When death and destruction become your society's featured "product," the few who endure intense interrogation are just the tip of a massive collateral damage iceberg.
USans are afraid for their lives, livelihoods, and extravagant lifestyles. To preserve the goal they seek, more extravagance tomorrow than today, they have to deflect criticism, even self-criticism, off onto some external enemy fabrication. This dark side of human nature is with each of us. We can't purge it from ourselves but we must purge it from our institutions, and instill the Hippocratic oath into those, through our individual exchange/association toward strengthening our local economies, and starving the elites.
Great job Glenn, people are blowing up NPR's comment board and threatening to stop donating.
Help put the "Public" back in "National Propaganda Radio"!
" For that reason, to suppress evidence of what our torture actually looks like and the brutality it entails -- particularly graphic evidence -- is to make it easier for that pro-torture position to thrive..."
This observation sums up the article perfectly. The establishment wants the population to become anesthesized to the idea of torture and view it as more of a " clinical " process, as the article suggests ( and precisely want happened with the German citizens during the 1930's and 40's ). So if we actually saw a detanee being sodomized by a phosphorescent light bulb or a young Muslim women being raped by an American soldier, which is what is rumored to be the two stunning revelations in these photographs, we might not be so cozy with the idea of torture.
Great to hear. Let 'em sink. There are small groups that deliver news and need that money.
Integrity is the integration/one-ness of thoughts, beliefs, words, and actions.
We either have integrity or we don't.
Helen Thomas most certainly does.
Barrack Obama and the fawning media do not. No wonder they laughed, it is an indicator of desperate insecurity and much worse.
I'm not sure who the 50 percent are that support torture. I meet few people who will even talk about this issue. Wars are raging abroad, people are dying but most people seem witless. I'd call them "apolitical." Quite possibly, people are tuned out and depressed.
Certainly, a lot of loyal Dems are in denial about Obama's support for torture, war, illegal detentions, etc. For them, it's enough that Obama just says, "America doesn't torture." I'm not sure why this works for them.
It's hard to imagine that people are so stupid in this country, or "savage," as Greenwald says. However, they really are manipulated by TV, I think. The fake news, programs like 24, etc. are highly influential. Only those who still read books have a chance of escaping the corporate media vortex.
Greenwald should have noted that images can be highly manipulative. Pictures of burning 9-11 buildings can motivate people to support attacks and occupations of countries. The best defense against such manipulation is to know enough history to gauge the possibilities.
So, condemn Iranian state violence, but cringe when you hear Obama weighing in. Regime change is still U.S. policy under Obama, I think. And the United States has fostered much violence against Iran under several presidents.
-TIA
"I'm not sure who the 50% are that support torture. I meet few people who will even talk about this issue."
I agree that mainstream media "ticking time bomb" justifications for the Good Guys resorting to torture paves the way for creation of this 50/50 public opinion split, but there is another culprit here that should be squarely identified.
In the 2004 Bush-Kerry presidential campaign, the first hour and a half debate (moderated by NPR's news anchor Jim Lehrer) was, by agreement, set aside for discussion of foreign affairs and national security issues.
The Abu Ghraib photo scandal had broken into the public domain in March, 2004, along with General Taguba's report. In reaction, there had been widespread anti-American, anti-torture street protests in Europe and throughout the Muslim world, including some demonstrations that escalated into violence. Also, the February, 2002, top secret legal memo from Alberto Gonzales to George W. Bush, creating the "enemy combatant" no man's land exception to the Geneva Conventions and international law outlawing torture had already been leaked, clearly establishing President Bush's personal decision to authorize use of what is now euphemistically termed "harsh interrogation techniques" on GWOT detainees.
Incredibly, with George W. Bush and John Kerry standing side-by-side for 90 minutes in the fall of 2004, fielding questions about Afghanistan, Iraq, 9/11, NAFTA, nuclear proliferation, Israel/Palestine, the global war on terror, etc., not a single word - not one word - was uttered about torture or the Geneva Conventions. Not one single word.
As the 2004 electoral season chugged into November, I kept waiting for the Kerry campaign to run the ads, and put into the stump speech, some reference to how the incumbent president had personally made torture official US government policy - perhaps even raising the issue of torture's morality before the evangelical Christian community. How would Little George explain that on his watch we were stacking naked brown skinned men with sacks over their heads into homoerotic, shit stained tableaus to "soften them up" for interrogation? What about the guy on the box with the electrical cords? Indeed, what would Jesus do?
Nope. Not one word. Not one.
So Bush steals Ohio, and gets reelected to his second term. Close, but no cigar. In the experts' post mortem analysis, Karl Rove, Faux News, and all of the professional data crunchers and pundits agree that the main reason the GOP won and the Dems lost was because the Kerry campaign failed to raise "moral values issues" that mainstream Americans could relate to.
Moral values issues? How did the smarmy, strutting Texan, who originally ran on a platform of restoring morality to the Oval Office, wind up getting a complete pass on accountability for torture? This issue was handed to the Democratic Party and to the Kerry campaign upon a silver platter, and those fools let the historic moment silently pass.
Yes TIA, shows like 24 do condition public opinion and desensitize people towards accepting occasional torture of prisoners as a policy option on the table. But the shocking, inexcusable tactical decision of the Democratic Party's leadership and top level campaign strategists in 2004, to never, ever, raise George Bush's torture policies as a partisan issue worthy of public debate, is a major reason so few people will even talk to you about this issue today. That NPR and the rest of the serious mainstream American media journalists aided and abetted in making torture a non-issue is of course shameful too.
If you really think about it, it's pretty amazing that 50% of the American public in the WaPo/ABC poll still do categorically oppose the use of torture under any circumstances.
When neither of the two major political parties, and all of the mainstream media, treat torture as a nonexistent issue within our supposedly open, free wheeling electoral democracy, a 50/50 split at the grassroots means the glass remains half full - which is something to be thankful for.
Bill from Saginaw
Sioux Rose
BILL: Thanks for the detailed historical replay. I agree with all apart from your seeming to think Bush won in 2004. What about Ohio. I'm sure you read Robert F. Kennedy's report on that little set of not entirely under the radar shenanigans?
Hi, Bill.
The horrible Kerry campaign is well worth bringing up. I recall that debate moment exactly as you expressed it. Kerry's foreign policy was actually quite hawkish, but you couldn't tell it from his speeches, so there was a little hope there. (We've heard that before!)
The Dems generally seem milder on the campaign stump, but their record of starting and sustaining wars rivals that of the Repugs. Still, this turn toward open support of torture, by both parties, is quite troubling.
I'm not so sure that the public is that supportive about torture. It may be that only the most ignorant in the United States still answer polls. Just a guess.
As for the debates, they all seem scripted now. Maybe those were genuine audience questions during that Bush-Kerry debate. Maybe they were prescreened. I'm not sure.
-TIA
Excellent GG as always.
And the most germaine, scariest truth explored is the acceptance by Americans of the ONCE abhorrent practice of torture by the US government.
It is now citizen-accepted Official Policy?
Standard Operating Procedure. The Status Quo.
The average, typical US citizen could not care less if one million people per day were napalmed if it sustained their standard of living.
Their decayed souls haunt them in their dreams though.
For many years I believed just what Mr. Greenwald as put forth, that if Americans actually saw what torture looks like, then the number of people who supported it may go down. I now have come to the realization that for the most part Americans are a very twisted lot and probably could care less about the incomprehensible immorality of torture and even worse, may get some sort of sociopathic pleasure in seeing the photos. By no means do I think that the photos should be suppressed, because truth is always the correct path, but I doubt that if the torture photos are released, American public opinion will change. If you are a moral person you know in your being that torture is wrong. You do not need photos to understand that.
"withholding evidence" is a new addition to the definitions of the word censorship.
What happens when the troops come home and realize that their government and media conspired to not report the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Who do you think they will be angry at?