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Technorati119 Million Americans Must Be Wrong
As the health insurance industry and its defenders in Congress lay out
their case against permitting a public option in a reform bill, perhaps
their most curious argument is that some 119 million Americans are
ready to dump their private plans and jump to something more like
Medicare - and that's why the choice can't be permitted.
In other words, the industry and its backers are acknowledging that
more than one-third of the American people are so dissatisfied with
their private health insurance that they trust the U.S. government to
give them a fairer shake on health care. The industry says its allies
in Congress must prevent that.
The peculiar argument that 119 million Americans must be denied the public option that they prefer has been made most notably by Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa, ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, which is one of two panels that has jurisdiction over the health insurance bill.
"As many as 119 million Americans would shift from private coverage to the government plan," Grassley wrote in a column for Politico.com. That migration, Grassley said, would "put America on the path toward a completely government-run health care system. ... Eventually, the government plan would overtake the entire market."
Grassley's logic is that so many Americans would prefer a government-run plan that the private health insurance industry would collapse or become a shadow of its current self. That, in turn, would lead even more Americans entering the government plan, making private insurance even less viable.
Rarely has an argument more dramatically highlighted the philosophical question of whether in a democracy, the government should represent the people's interests or an industry's.
But Grassley said he is simply upholding "the promise that if you like the coverage you have, you can keep it. ... That's why I'm concerned about a government-run plan that forces people out of private insurance."
The counter-argument, of course, might be that if the health insurance industry hadn't dissatisfied so many customers - indeed forcing many sick people into bankruptcy because of excessive fees, denial of coverage and gaps in permitted medical treatments - there wouldn't be so many Americans eager for a public option.
So, now to protect the health insurance industry, Congress must stop 119 million Americans from leaping into the arms of a government plan.
Grassley is joined in his position by nearly the entire Republican contingent in Congress. It also appears a few key Democrats, particularly Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Montana, agree at least in part.
Baucus has kept a single-payer option "off the table" during the debate even as he claimed "all options are on the table." He also has suggested that Congress might have to "sculpt" any public option, presumably to make it less appealing to Americans if some version survives in the reform bill.
President Barack Obama, whose mother had to fight with her health insurance company while dying of cancer, says he continues to favor including a public option in the bill as necessary to keep the insurance industry honest. Sen. Ted Kennedy, chairman of the Health and Education Committee which also has jurisdiction over the bill, also favors a strong public plan.
However, there is the additional fact that executives from health insurance companies and related industries are major campaign contributors to members of Congress on both sides of the aisle.
For instance, since 2005, Grassley's various political action committees have collected nearly $1.3 million in donations from the industries related to the health insurance debate, according to OpenSecrets.org. Grassley's top four donor groups were Health ($411,956); Insurance ($307,348); Pharmaceuticals ($233,850); and Hospitals ($197,137). Eighth on Grassley's donor list were HMOs at $130,684.
On the other hand, the health insurance industry appears about as popular with Americans as the tobacco industry, with both considered highly hazardous to your health. Except that Americans can choose not to smoke, while they run enormous risks for themselves and their families if they don't have some form of health insurance.
Health insurance companies do negotiate rates with hospitals and doctors that are far below what is charged to people who don't have insurance, sometimes as low as one-tenth what the uninsured patient might be charged.
These disparities, in effect, force many Americans to sign up for private insurance even if the insurance fees are excessive, padded with handsome profits for investors and unproductive bureaucratic costs (including investigations into whether people can be denied payments because of undisclosed "preexisting conditions").
If the health insurance industry had its way, Congress would produce a bill that simply required Americans (or their employers) to buy health insurance from private industry. That way, the government would compel citizens to become customers while denying them a choice of the public plan.
To avoid such an outcome, proponents of the public option - including those 119 million Americans who are ready to sign up - will have to overcome opposition from Republicans and some Democrats who are determined to protect the interests of the private health insurance industry.
41 Comments so far
Show AllMake that 119 million and one.
What was that old line "Not a penney in tribute"?: Not a $ to a lobbyist.
“If single payer is passed, the insurance companies will still make a living selling catastrophic insurance and will continue to milk the rich who want to be exclusive and conspicuous consumers. The drug pushers, however, give even more money to Baucus than the for–profit insurance pushers, and they do not want to have to negotiate better prices as that would be a bitter pill for them to swallow." JNC
The article was good coverage of the state of the fight. Anyone who's not rich and understands the issue knows we need a public pool or single-payer system--not insurance and not for profit. The corporate ghouls and their minions in congress will do everything to stop it. The only promise I see lies in some of the more vitriolic comments here. Of course single payer ain't gonna help you when you're in jail. Writing letters doesn't work. Take to the streets in protest?
Insurance company executives continue to live? After all these years of taking money and denying service. Hmm. I think our forefathers spin like lathework in their graves. The vultures need to be dead.
when one agrees to defer every aspect of one's life to another, one effectively places one's fate in the other's hands...our system of law enforcement and judicial process, for example, are not designed for vigilante-ism, or local council...my wife and I were just discussing a man who randomly assaults individuals, but not SO bad, so that he ends up in jail for only a couple of weeks, then he's out, and the people that testified against him are frightened of repercussion...the police can't stop him, and the courts won't...what would happen if the community was responsible for their own peace? my bet is, a few guys would get together and beat the crap out of this guy, and tell him to get the fuck out of town, or get killed...in fact, I doubt he'd have been able to reach the age he has without learning this lesson...where Congress is concerned, when you have deliberate, consistent denial of citizen need to further corporate profit, and those responsible cannot and will not be stopped via due processes, your hands are tied...?
Health Insurance card.
Bearer is entitled to:
1 Get sick.
2 Feel pain.
3 Spend savings.
4 Croak.
Courtesy of Congress and the health insurance industry.
So now, is there any doubt that the USA is a thoroughly criminal enterprise?
The whores in congress do their jobs: coo at us, throw us a perfunctory hump (elections), and pass our money to their corporate pimps.
Weak people don't deserve rights or "free" health care. The American public has shown itself to be servile and docile to the ruling elite.
I have no sympathy for them.
Here are some promotional virtual reality images of the inside of a corporate jet. This is the way your insurance executives travel while millions go without basic health care:
http://www.bziegler.com/posts/2009/03/vr_airbus/CJ/
Verrry Nice!!!
Now consider: in Kona Hawaii, one end of the airport there fills up with these corporate jets every Friday, as Wall Street banksters leave their 'jobs' for the weekend. On Sunday, the airport clears out again. (the jets are comfortable enough to sleep on, making the trip from NY to Kona as simple as sleeping).
Your tax dollars at WORK!!
Here in California they're trying to pass a law to FORCE the insurance companies to give a woman TWO days minimum in the hospital after a mastectomy, cuz too many insurance executives insist on pushing them out of the hospital after only ONE day. What would they get under single-payer? What the doctor recommends, of course! Duh!!
Remember the Doctors? I seem to recall their having something to do with healthcare.
hoghungry1
At my union hall they call it cost shifting. We pay more so others can share????? I am currently paying 5.24 per hour worked.....
I need a break, guys.
Costs me 900 bucks when I am unemployed per month. Deduct THAT from your unemployment check.
The disparity between what health providers charge and what insurance companies pay is asssstounding!
Our family is going through two relatively minor health issues and the charges are way over $30,000 to date. Anyone ought to be able to see this kind of debt could break many families, even with insurance - not to mention those without.
Another assssstounding discovery we have made is that in the midst of signing away all your rights to a hospital in the midst of the emergency room trauma, you may even give up the right to your own insurance company. A local hospital - Baptist - includes in it's "sign away your rights" admission forms that some doctors in their hospital do not use your insurance. If that doctor happens to be the only one on duty when the hospital assigns them to you, guess who pays?
HAHAHAHAHA! YOUUUUU DOOOOO !
In our case, the doc was asked if he took our insurance when he entered the room [No]; if there was another doc on duty who does take our insurance [ No ]; and could the treatment wait [YES]. EVEN WITH THESE CAUTIONARY QUESTIONS, GUESS who got the bill our insurance would not pay ???
YOU GOT IT !!! WE are still getting them.
Is there an ethics question here ? You betcha! Has either the hospital or doc been willing to discuss this "Catch 22" they force on their patients? NO WAY!
SO, it's not just insurance that needs prodding from government regulators. It is the entire health industry. LET'S START NOW!
The philosophical question of whether in a democracy, the government should represent the people's interests or an industry's, is an oxymoron.
The principal definition of democracy is that all members of the society (citizens) have equal access to power.
With the scumbags in Congress, corrupted by corporates, this principle is perverted. Government, the legalized Mafia, is waging war against citizens on all "fronts" worldwide.
There was a time when bribed elements like Grassley and Baucus would have been tarred and feathered.
Those times will come again.
Read “Collateral Damage” by E. P Heidner, part I and II.
>>> www.scribd.com/people/documents/2169400-ep-heidner <<<
Be warned. It is a nightmare almost beyond comprehension.
This issue doesn't get fixed with debates and committees. It doesn't start with us the poor pleading masses at the feet of congress hoping and begging for them to care, to listen and do what they're told.
It starts with a million strong standing in front of the hall of congress demanding what we desire. Or it starts project mayhem style with empty glass towers falling in the night erasing the insurance industry.
Pick a side
So, it seems that the will of the population is not to be considered in the usa. Sorta the inverse of what a democracy or republic is supposed to be. What do you call it when the corporation has more power than the majority of the populace?
At least it's not just the rest of the world that has to deal with the us gov't and its insistance that democracy is only to be tolerated when it's profitable for the us corporations.
LeeAnnG
You call it Fascism.
Response from my congressman regarding single payer universal health care, he is republican:
Thank you for taking the time to contact my office regarding H.R. 676, the United States National Health Care Act or the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act.
While I agree that health care reform needs to come about, I do not think it is the federal government's job to regulate it. I think with any health care reform it needs to be patient and doctor oriented. The federal government already has proven it can not handle something as critical as health care. One needs to only look at FEMA and how the government runs the Veteran's Affairs health care system to know that this will not work.
immigrants have... Not only is your Congressman a Republican, he doesn't read. Nowhere does HR 676 turn over health care decisions to the government. Don't let him off the hook. Write back and ask him just where in that bill does it say that. Although honestly, even that's a waste of time. He has no intention of supporting it mo matter what it says. They do feel free to lie. And he would probably just tell another one.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
"KEEP the insurance industry 'honest'"????
Honest?
Keep?
I was supposedly 'covered' by my private insurance, company insurance (and pension), and workers comp - but when I got hurt, they all argued about who was responsible until it was too late to remedy my condition and I became TOTALLY disabled entirely due to their procrastination, denial, etc. Once you go through that kind of insanity, you REALLY HATE PRIVATE INSURANCE (EXTORTION RACKETS) and anyone who would propose such madness.
Yes, and the solution, according to many lobbyists is to force everyone to pay protection money.
Never have the government and the criminal element in Washington worked so closely to the mutual benefit of each.
The lawmakers and the insurance giants become filthy rich. What? What about the people? Don't change the subject. Make an effort to focus here.
The only people who 'want' private health insurance are the ones who haven't tried to use it yet - that's when they find out they HAVE NO INSURANCE!!!
That would explain why so many out there who can work toward getting "vested" in PERS are doing so today.
if 119,000,000 americans are ready for government insurance (i have medicare), let them have it!
for peace and sustainability
Oh, that is just that 1% of progressives they can afford to ignore.
keepitsimple
My congressman, Dr. Phil Gingrey of Georgia, is progressive on many issues - but not this one. I email him weekly about single-payer, but he responds with an absolute, "NO!"
As a health-care insider, it is enigmatic how he does not comprehend the magnitude of the crisis. Maybe the operative words are "healthcare insider". Methinks our govt. is waging war against humanity on all "fronts". Corporations Rule!
And those @120 Million presumably are adults; so when we include their children, we get almost the whole US populace. That's pretty baldfaced, denying almost the whole US populace something that they all need and would be a very great stimulus to the economy were they allowed to get regular check-ups and the occasional prescription. The Pharma people have it all wrong--with everyone covered, their sales of drugs would skyrocket, along with their bottom line. Same goes for medical equipment manufacturers, and other makers of health related products. I think it's fair to say that the politicos opposed to single payer are opposed to US economic recovery, because that's how they're behaving.
I believe the above to be a great line of argument to employ when writing your congresscritters. One could even accuse the antis of being unpatriotic by denying something that would uplift every community and millions of individuals throughout the land.
"Health insurance companies do negotiate rates with hospitals and doctors that are far below what is charged to people who don't have insurance, sometimes as low as one-tenth what the uninsured patient might be charged."
The cost to the hospital is the same. I went to the emergency room, got care, got a bill and paid it. But I was charged many times over what I would have been charged if I had been in an insurance pool, while the cost to the hospital was actually less. I'd like to at least be charged at the same rates.
That's because the insurance companies beat the providers down so low that the providers charge the uninsured more to make up for the losses the insurance companies are causing them.
That being said, one problem in this country that nobody wants to address is that most American medical practicioners expect to earn vastly more (and have much more luxurious waiting rooms and lifestyles) than doctors in, say, Western Europe.
So, I'm charged more to make up for the lower payments insurers are able to demand from hospitals? But we're being told that the uninsured cost the insured more in premiums. The assumption is always that the uninsured don't pay, not that the uninsured pay more.
I have insurance and whenever I get those statements from the insurance companies they list what the provider billed and what they actually paid. It's about half. If i didn't have insurance I'd pay twice what I pay now--although I wouldn't have to pay the insurance company. Actually it would be cheaper for me to drop the insurance for my basic checkups and very rare complaints, etc., but of course the fear is always the car crash, discovery of some ghastly diesase, etc., and so I pay and pay to the insurance companies so they can give huge bonuses to their CEOs.
Rainborowe
Pitch Fork, let's just say the uninsured owe more. They only pay more if they have any assets that can be stolen from them.
Remember that bankruptcy bill Congress blessed us with has excluded medical debt from forgiveness.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
Remember that bankruptcy bill Congress blessed us with has excluded medical debt from forgiveness.
That's just one of the many, many things that Congress has done to us that is excluded from forgiveness.
What really really galls the hell out of me is that these same scumbags are getting their gold plated health-care paid for by the rest of us even as they take bribes from the Vampire care Ins. Industry and it's allies in BIG PHARMA and BIG M.D. ( A.M.A.) These hypocritical elitist pricks would sicken and kill hundreds of thousands , millions just so a few dozen CEO's can have their billions! This is really nothing more then a form of legal terrorism. Grassley and Baucus and any other Congresscritter that stand with BIG VAMPIRE INC are traitors and criminals. Where oh where is Madame Defarge when we need her?
"...These hypocritical elitist pricks would sicken and kill...just so a few dozen CEO's can have their billions! This is really nothing more then a form of legal terrorism..."
You don't know how close you are!
Read “Collateral Damage” by E. P Heidner, part I and II.
>>> www.scribd.com/people/documents/2169400-ep-heidner <<<
...and you will never look the same at 'terrorism'.
Rather than Mme Defarge (who accomplished no good as she relished bloody executions) perhaps we should be asking 'Where is our Gandhi' who will effectively challenge the merciless insurance profiteers and their minions in congress?
Grassley thinks he can have it both ways. He's complaining that 119 million Americans would rush to a public option and somehow that would deny anyone from having private insurance. How many businesses can you think of who would be thrilled to have 100 million customers? We already have close to 50 million - and growing - people without insurance. The insurance industry isn't concerned at all about people who can't afford to pay. But they're screaming at the idea of losing good paying customers. And there is the rub. Customers. Obama called health care a right. In this corporate run country it is not a right. It is a privilege but only if you can pay for it. Otherwise, die, sucker.
And every Republican and some Democrats have the same attitude. Die, sucker.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
"...And every Republican and some Democrats have the same attitude. Die, sucker..."
You don't need to be a clairvoyant to predict that some 'suckers' will take revenge on one or the other Congress scumbag.
Revolutionary dynamic can develop frighteningly fast. Then, even gold plated health-care plans, paid for by the rest of us, won't cover corrupt Congress scum.
While Single Payer is preferable, a mixed (and probably muddled) public / private system along the lines of what exists in Switzerland may well be the best that can be achieved given the corrosive and corrupt power of the "Health" industry.