What the New Jim Comey Torture Emails Actually Reveal
The New York Times was provided 3 extremely important internal Justice Department emails from April, 2005 (.pdf) -- all written by then-Deputy Attorney General Jim Comey -- which highlight how the Bush administration's torture techniques became legally authorized by Bush lawyers. As Marcy Wheeler documents, the leak to the NYT was clearly from someone eager to defend Bush lawyers by suggesting that Comey's emails prove that all DOJ lawyers --- even those opposed to torture -- agreed these techniques were legal, and the NYT reporters, Scott Shane and David Johnston, dutifully do the leakers' bidding by misleadingly depicting the Comey emails as vindication for Bush/Cheney (Headline: "U.S. Lawyers Agreed on the Legality of Brutal Tactic"; First Paragraph: "When Justice Department lawyers engaged in a sharp internal debate in 2005 over brutal interrogation techniques, even some who believed that using tough tactics was a serious mistake agreed on a basic point: the methods themselves were legal").
I defy anyone to read Comey's 3 emails and walk away with that conclusion. Marcy has detailed many of the reasons the NYT article is so misleading, so I want to focus on what the Comey emails actually demonstrate about what these DOJ torture memos really are. The primary argument against prosecutions for Bush officials who ordered torture is that DOJ lawyers told the White House that these tactics were legal, and White House officials therefore had the right to rely on those legal opinions. The premise is that White House officials inquired in good faith with the DOJ about what they could and could not do under the law, and only ordered those tactics which the DOJ lawyers told them were legal. As these Comey emails prove, that simply is not what happened.
The DOJ torture-authorizing memos are perfectly analogous to the CIA's pre-war intelligence reports about Iraq's WMDs. Bush officials justify their pre-war statements about WMDs by pointing to the CIA's reports -- as though those reports just magically appeared on their desks from the CIA -- when, as is well documented, Dick Cheney and friends were continuously pressuring and cajoling the CIA to give them those threat reports in order to justify what the attack on Iraq. That is exactly how the DOJ torture-authorizing memos came to be: Dick Cheney, David Addington and George Bush himself continuously exerted extreme pressure on DOJ lawyers to produce memos authorizing them to do what they wanted to do -- not because they were interested in knowing in good faith what the law did and did not allow, but because they wanted DOJ memos as cover -- legal immunity -- for the torture they had already ordered and were continuing to order. Though one won't find this in the NYT article, that is, far and away, the most important revelation from the Comey emails.
* * * * *
Just read the Comey emails for yourself -- they're not long -- and you'll see exactly how these DOJ torture memos were actually produced. The key excerpts tell the story as clearly as can be. Comey was vehemently opposed to a draft memo written by Acting OLC Chief Steven Bradbury -- ultimately dated May 10, 2005 (.pdf) -- that legally authorized the simultaneous, combined use of numerous "enhanced interrogation techniques" on detainees. This memo was crucial because these were the combined techniques that had already been used on detainees, and -- after the prior OLC memos authorizing those tactics were withdrawn -- the White House was desperate for legal approval for what they had already done and what they wanted to do in the future.
Comey begins by noting that OLC lawyer Patrick Philbin had expressed numerous objections to the Bradbury memo -- all of which were being ignored in the rush to give the White House what it wanted:
Comey then noted that he, too, had "grave reservations" about the DOJ legal opinion:
Does that sound to you like there was unanimity in the DOJ about the legality of these methods?
As a result of his objections, Comey went to Attorney General Alberto Gonazles to urge that the memo not be approved, but Gonzales told him that he was under extreme pressure from Dick Cheney, David Addington, Harriet Miers -- and even Bush himself -- to get these memos issued:
Comey urged Gonzales to stop the approval of the "combined techniques" memo, warning it would "come back to haunt him":
The following day, Comey noted that the loyalty of DOJ lawyers lay with the White House, not with the Justice Department, and they were thus willing to comply with the demands of Cheney and Addington even at the expense of their duties as DOJ lawyers:
Most revealingly, Comey described exactly what was happening with this process: that the White House was demanding and pressuring the issuance of these memos, but that once the torture regime became public -- as Comey warned that it would -- White House officials would defend themselves by heaping the blame on Gonzales and other DOJ lawyers, deceitfully pretending that they were merely following in good faith DOJ advice about what was and was not legal:
Alluding to the extreme pressure that had previosuly been exerted by the White House on then-AG John Aschroft to legally authorize the illegal NSA spying program, Comey lamented that even the minimal willingness of Ashcroft to defy White House pressure was completely lacking in the Gonzales-led DOJ and OLC -- meaning the White House was able to get legal authorization from the DOJ for whatever it wanted, regardless of whether it was actually legal:
This battle over these torture memos was occurring in preparation for a White House Principals Meeting -- to be attended by key Bush cabinet members -- to decide which interrogation tactics they would authorize. As Comey notes, White House officials knew full well that what they were authorizing and ordering were, in his words, "simply awful" -- as illustrated by the cowardly demand from Condoleezza Rice that the tactics not be discussed in any detail at meeting:
Comey
notes that there was a videotape of at least one of the interrogation
sessions that would ensure that the full brutality of what they
authorized would come to light -- but those videotapes, of course, were
destroyed by the CIA in an act which even the 9/11 Commission
co-Chairmen called "obstruction of justice."
Ultimately, Comey's pleas that Gonzales block approval of these tactics were ignored. Despite Gonzales' conveying Comey's arguments about how history would judge what they were doing, the White House Principals -- yet again -- approved all of the torture tactics in those memos:
* * * * *
It's worth noting that all of the officials involved in these events -- including Comey -- are right-wing ideologues appointed by George Bush. That's why they were appointed. The fact that Comey was willing to go along with approval of these tactics when used individually -- just as is true of his willingness to endorse a modified version of Bush's NSA warrantless eavesdropping program in the face of FISA -- hardly proves that there was a good-faith basis for the view that these individual tactics were legal.
But the real story here is obvious -- these DOJ memos authorizing torture were anything but the by-product of independent, good faith legal analysis. Instead, those memos -- just like the pre-war CIA reports about The Threat of Saddam -- were coerced by White House officials eager for bureaucratic cover for what they had already ordered. This was done precisely so that once this all became public, they could point to those memos and have the political and media establishment excuse what they did ("Oh, they only did what they DOJ told them was legal"). That is the critical point proven by the Comey emails, and it is completely obscured by the NYT article, which instead trumpets the opposite point ("Unanimity at DOJ that these tactics were legal") because that's the story their leakers wanted them to promote.
What's most ironic about what the NYT did here is that on the very same day this article appears, there is a column from the NYT Public Editor, Clark Hoyt, excoriating the paper for having published a deeply misleading front page story by Elizabeth Bumiller, that claimed that 1 out of 7 Guantanamo detainees return to "jihad" once they are released. That happened because Bumiller followed the most common method of modern establishment reporting: she mindlessly repeated what her government sources told her to say. As Hoyt put it:
But the article on which he based that statement was seriously flawed and greatly overplayed. It demonstrated again the dangers when editors run with exclusive leaked material in politically charged circumstances and fail to push back skeptically. The lapse is especially unfortunate at The Times, given its history in covering the run-up to the Iraq war.
That is exactly what Shane and Johnston did with these memos. Just as Bumiller did, they included some contrary facts buried deep in the article about Comey's objections, but the headline and the way the entire article was framed will create the impression -- as intended -- that there was unanimity among DOJ lawyers to approve these techniques. Other journalists, too slothful to read the Comey emails themselves, will get the message and go forth and repeat it, and it will soon be conventional wisdom that "everyone" at the DOJ agreed these torture techniques were legal. Already this morning, here is George Stephanopolous' reaction to the NYT story on Twitter:
Any rational and minimally well-informed person who actually read the Comey emails would walk away with the exact opposite point -- what is "stunning" was how extreme was the pressure from the White House to issue these memos and how compliant DOJ lawyers were to White House dictates. But that's how our media works: anonymous government officials tell them what to say; they write it down uncritically; and it then becomes conventional wisdom regardless of how false it is.
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47 Comments so far
Show AllCheney was greasing the wheels for torture well in advance of having any prisoners because torture was known to be a reliable way of producing what Cheney refers to as "actionable intelligence."
Of course, "actionable intelligence" need not have been true or even remotely accurate as long as it was useful for Cheney’s purposes. Torture (especially repetitive torture) was uniquely suited to fabricating "actionable intelligence" as Cheney’s victims eventually learned to create whatever sort of details the Torturer in Chief sought (such as a link between 9/11 and Iraq).
Bless you Glenn Greenwald! Without your gold-standard Journalism we would be in the dark about what really went on in the George F***ing Bush regime.
Now someone needs to hold Barak Obama's feet to the fire and make him keep his campaign promises: Guantanamo; the torture memos/photographs; Don't Ask Don't Tell; Iraq; Afghanistan; the rule of law, THE CONSTITUTION FOR GODSAKE!; not to mention appointing an anti-abortion anti-birth-control-conservative extremist to head Health & Human Services, and standing up publicly--and immediately--to denounce Dr. Tiller's assassination and remind the lunatic evangelical fringe that women have the right to choose a LEGAL ABORTION in this country, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Our loyalty is being traded for expediency by our shiny new president, and there are precious few journalists like you that even deserve the title.
KEEP RAKING THE MUCK!
All means, even if they are not in conformity with existing laws and precedents, are legal if they subserve the will of the Führer.
--- Reinhard Heydrich
I am so dumb. I did not know the Justice Department could write Law, that a stroke of one of their pens could gut the constitution, subvert the Geneva Convention or legalize war crimes.
The bushcheney scum manipulated the noJusticedept for the 'opinions,' they sought. Okay.
But what I'm NOT seeing questioned is that these aholelawyers can create law. since when? bs. I think we question a burning tree when the whole forest is in flames. Score one for the creeps if the debate is framed thus.
Freedom can be lost in INTERPRETATIONS of law . . .
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
Obama is now suggesting that if persons held in US Custody will plead guilty to 9/11, they can then be executed .
They hold these people in Custody for years on end, subject them to torture and all manner of abuses and then promise to end that suffering if they would just plead guilty.
This is called "justice".
If you read about the Spanish Inquisition this is exactly what the Inquisitors would do. They would torture people with the most henious of techniques until they signed confessions that they were in league with Satan. Once they signed said confession they gave them a "relatively" quick death.
It remains unclear whether, and to what extent, Obama himself has discussed and endorsed the proposed Martyr Express undue process micro-blown (as opposed to full-blown) "trials" [note ironic aka scare quotes]. Even so, the fact that this approach is even being openly bandied about without much fuss simply staggers me.
I'm not trying to reach, or claiming to know, the factual issues of whence such an egregiously wicked idea arose, and on what terms it's been circulated; I'm saying that the fact that the very rumor of this nefarious scheme hasn't caused heads to snap up in outrage from coast to coast is disturbing.
One expects the troll-class troglodytes to be OK with this. Their ancestors were OK with Sacco & Vanzetti, summary executions of wanted felons not resisting arrest, and the Rosenbergs.
But is the average citizen just saying, "Well, there is no easy solution, and these detainees are an albatross festering around Obama's neck... Hell, I say we trust him-- and give him a second term to Make Good and put Amerika on a path that will allow us to really Move Forward and think no more of the little... compromises we had to make along the way..."?
My impression is that this story has been widely, if not intensively, reported in the corporate media. Pardon my cliché, but: where's the outrage?
· Yr Obd't Servant
Mr.Greenwald,
Please publish all your e-columns.
Thank you.
michagafa
My suspicion is institutionalized journalists are generally conformists. Journalism is vicarious, chronicling the lives of others. It is doubtful most people find such a life satisfying. Assuming so, journalists are disposed to convention. Only the paparazzi are critical, and this because criticism is the public convention. Americans being little informed, convention is determined by the politician. Thus the journalist parrots the politician. Also life is easy. Rewriting press releases or self-serving "private" comment is simple, and pleases the source, insuring continued rewritten press releases and self-serving "private" comment. And, oh, the thrill of being "in the know!" There is also the hope of the sycophant. A word here, a word there, and a pleased source fosters the career of a Thomas Friedman or Robert Woodward. What more can be expected of those who live through the lives of others?
Bring America Back !!!!................another beautiful report, Glen Greenwald, getting to the gritty facts behind this torture debacle. There is some solace in knowing there was dissent present in the ranks.
****Main Stream Media, of all genre, is mindless, slothful, and non-skeptical in what it feeds its public. If being skeptical devils'advocates is not the job of all journalists, then it certainly is for those calling themselves "investigative journalists".
***There has not been any worthwhile investigative journalism in MSM since Woodward & Bernstein' Watergate.
***The Tree that is being obscured by the Torture Forrest, even from Greenwald, is that the Neocons needed Patsys, fall guys to blame for everything they had done They knew their cave-dwelling boogieman bin Laden would not hold up as the be-all end-all Culprit of 9/11===the Intel community also knew Torture was a great way to get other Patsys to admit to anything they wished them to. Ergo, we now have a Muslim chauffeur and the 19th HiJacker admitting to masterminding the whole 9/11 attack, after appropriate waterboarding of course, then requesting martyrdom as heros. They just knew Dick Cheney would be conducting war games on 9/11, sending NORAD response jets out into the Atlantic, away from the events of NYC and DC that fateful day. Didn't they , though ??????? Patsys. Intelligent cavemen indeed.
==========And gee whizzer Glen, does not the Military conduct war games. since when would the VP be doing that, esp since his boss was reading pet goat stories to an elementary school class in Sarasota , Florida ?????????????????????
**There is also a new Anthrax Patsy==the first one having won a lawsuit vs the FBI. The present Anthrax Patsy has turned up dead of suicide===lesson is dead Patsys tell no tales, nor bring no lawsuits.
**Katie Couric, back then still with NBC, recently admitted there was significant Corporate Suits pressures on reporters NOT to question or overly second guess the Bush Administration's 9/11 and Iraq War tactics. Phil Donohue also tells it like it was, and is.
**On page 57 of David Southwell's book ""Secrets and Lies", he quotes a leaked CIA internal memo stating "We have agents and contacts with every major news wire service, newspaper, news weekly and television network in the nation."
**Is it any wonder the Truth of 9/11 has yet seen any sunshine ???? MSM continues to obscure the smoking gun of 9/11==Building 7, WTC, whose occupants until that day include all the usual suspects--and more !! Greenwald is right though, MSM has been blitzed with ignomy and ignorance.
Let's stop pussyfooting around already:
Memo to World: we're #1, understand? You got a problem with that, we'll invade your ass, murder and maim millions of innocents, disappear and/or torture whomever we want be they guilty of anything or not, swipe your resources, flood your country with weapons, and insure your infrastructure is never repaired.
Things would be so much easier if we just stopped pretending we're always good and right and God-lovin and, instead, took proud responsibility for our brutal, greedy, imperial reign.
Ever play "king of the hill?" The king never claims to be kind and benevolent - he dares all to dethrone him and fights with whatever it takes. That's us - love it or leave it, but stop denying it.
All of the above being digested and considered, it is all the more urgent that:
Prosecutions of Bush, Cheney, Rice, Addington, Yoo, etc should be pursued with the utmost vigor. Those DOJ lawyers with reservations were not nearly as helpless as they might wish us to believe--they could have resigned en masse and told all.
It's the same with the CIA analysts who allowed themselves to be coerced into lying for the White House and its designees in the administration.
Glenn Greenwald's piece has the curious stink of a kind of CYA for Comey, Philbin, and company now that the overwhelming monstrosity of the DOJ's derelection of duty is coming to light.
Disbarments and criminal prosecutions (neither of which will probably ever happen) are in order all the way around. Even if it was done in a kangaroo court with the conclusion forgone, for the record and for the adverse publicity it needs to be done.
Poet
Poet,
I agree about "the overwhelming monstrosity of the DOJ's derelection of duty". Prosecutions need to be started, so what's this administration's excuse? Let's see. The last bunch was intensely pressured by the White House to write memos approving torture. They forgot they worked at the DOJ and not the WH.
Maybe this bunch is being pressured intensely by the White House to ... what? - utterly ignore the most heinous crimes of the last 8 years. They are forgetting they work for the DOJ and not the WH...
Why have a Department of Justice at all?
Mr Greenwald's screeds quite often include "quotes" from other documents as graphic images rather than actual text, which is completely unreadable for those with vision disabilities.
This is surprising, as it shows a level of contempt for minorities and a failure of the social contract that would appear to be inimical to the core values of both Salon and of Common Dreams, which reposts the Salon content, and of their readership.
Perhaps this just hasn't happened to have crossed the minds of either Mr Greenwald or the various editors who've had responsibility for presenting it on the Web.
It amounts only to a "cheap trick," evidently meant to generate a faux "verisimilitude" to his quotations from other sources, since it's perfectly obvious that he could easily have written the words himself and grabbed a screen shot.
Thank you,
Lioness
Up at your TOOLBAR, click on "VIEW" -- you will see "TEXT SIZE" . . .
click on that and you should be able to increase the size of the text
to whatever you need.
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
Lioness--
Try holding down the cntrl key and rolling the wheel on your mouse towards the screen. Quite often this will magnify small print or pix to be conprehendable.
Poet
Magnifying the screen does persons who are blind no good at all, and almost everyone for whom this advise is pertinent already knows it. I'd say "all" but for the fact that there are some blind people who've never encountered the Internet.
What *should* be done is to insert the text as machine-readable text and highlight it, if necessary, with ordinary HTML or CSS features that can be read by screen readers. An alternative and reasonable accommodation would be to include the machine-readable text in an "alt tag", as most screen readers either display (i.e. read aloud) these accessible attributes either by default or as an option.
This is a Web standard from W3.org, as part of the Web Accessibility Initiative, and should be within the repertoire of anyone who presumes to publish on the Web.
http://w3.org/WAI/
It should be noted as well that the same techniques required to make sites accessible to persons with disabilities must be used to make sites accessible to persons using mobile devices, so ignoring these requirements isn't *only* self-centred and smug about the "normality" of one's own experience, it's seriously un-cool. What is he, still living back in the 90's?
Lioness
as posted elsewhere this morning, with the rare exception, long-gone is any semblance of serious journalism, or even an attempt at it.
Who needs Al Qaeda, the US is doing itself in!!
Like I said a couple of days ago, the stink of Judith Millerism will never be expunged from The New York Tombs. The Tombs now is what it is: the Pravda of USA "journalism", another rag-tag collaborator with government criminality, the head print cheerleader for a dying empire. The New York Tombs - The Paper of Wreck-ord.
(Headline: "U.S. Lawyers Agreed on the Legality of Brutal Tactic"; First Paragraph: "When Justice Department lawyers engaged in a sharp internal debate in 2005 over brutal interrogation techniques, even some who believed that using tough tactics was a serious mistake agreed on a basic point: the methods themselves were legal").
----------------------
Most people only read the headline and the first paragraph. This fact is well know to all who practice the dark art of propaganda.
You can bet the house that Comey's real words and positions will never be mentioned on t.v. except perhaps briefly on Countown and Rachael Maddow.
"While signing off on the techniques, Mr. Comey in his e-mail provided a firsthand account of how he tried unsuccessfully to discourage use of the practices."
I didn't find in the emails any indication that Comey had "signed off" on Darth Viper's torture techniques. The above quote from the NYT article seems to me intended to deceive the reader that Comey signed off when he didn't. He tried to delay the DOJ's opinion to have it re-written to express disapproval for some of the techniques but the WH wouldn't allow the delay. It sounds to me like he didn't sign off but was over-ridden. It appears that at the time of writing the emails he had already submitted his resignation for unexplained reasons so it's not like he could resign in protest, if he wanted to. Maybe he could have protested in some other way but it's clear from the emails that he didn't sign off. The NYT seems to want to convey the idea that Comey's protest was much weaker than it actually was. And I could not find a link to the emails themselves in the NYT article, which rings familiar as an unnecessary withholding of information from the public in the age of hyperlinks. No wonder the mainstream media is dying. Thanks to Glenn Greenwald for shedding further light on the crimes of Darth Viper and the Imperial Chimp, voted in for a second term after the whole world knew they committed grave violations of the laws of the land.
I have wondered for a while why journalist (for want of a better term) like Shane and Johnston go along with the spin? Is there an unspoken culture that they must in order to succeed at their jobs and they lack the courage to report the truth? Or, as I heard a person say on Democracy Now!, that we are fastly slipping into a sociopathic culture here in the U.S.. I saw a poll on the corporate news that 58% of americans were against torture. All I could think was why isn't it 98%! Scary, Scary stuff when humans can discuss torture in such clinical and compartmentalized ways. Thanks Mr. Greenwald for all the information I could never find out on my own.!
susan: you need to read some chomsky
http://www.chomsky.info/
one of his most popular books is called "manufacturing consent"
here are some points for you to consider:
despite all the mythology about democracy in the united states the fact is that the political system in the united states was written to protect the elites from the unwashed masses
as chomsky poits out - madison was quite concerned about riff raff assuming any voice in the political arena
up to say 1880 only around 18%of the population had the right to vote
hardly democratic now was it
by 1920 the percentage was up to 40%
by 1910 the elites were expressing the increased concern about the meddling in their affairs by the lowly folks
the didn't like it
then came the birth of a new industry called public relations
the elites realized they could not get away with murdering the entire population as they had done with the first nation so they realized they would have to manipulate the population with disinformation
they realized that they would have to "manufacture consent"
one of the first campaigns we saw was the british government demonizing the germans - they called them huns - so as to manufacture support for the first world war
they launched a massive radio campaign that ultimately worked didn't it
by the way - one guy who noticed the campaign and realized the power of the fawning corporate media was a mid level politician in germany whose name was adolf hitler
he used propaganda like no one before him had dreamed - to create the myth of the 1000 year reich - which we all know was trimmed to a brutal 12 years
and also to demonize the jews
chomsky will decode all of this for you
lastly, speaking of fawning corporate media - chomsky has been the most highly regarded intellectual in the world for many many years
he is the most quoted writer in the world and has been for many years
question: why do we never see him on tv
answer: he's not that fawning
Re . . .
QUOTE: Hitler used propaganda like no one before him had dreamed - to create the myth of the 1000 year reich - which we all know was trimmed to a brutal 12 years
UNQUOTE
Agree, with one exception . . .
Hitler imitated the Catholic Church in many regards, especially in their 1,100 years
of propaganda against the Jews -- and another 100 years of vile anti-Jewish propaganda after the end of the Vatican's Jewish Ghettoes.
Just as the Vatican/Catholic Crusades set a precedent for torture and brutality,
they also established the propaganda machine thru their vast networks.
Hitler's Nazi propaganda was not only resurrected by Nixon, but the Nixon White House was actually studying Nazi propaganda. And, not so long after, we have Bush/Cheney actually using tortures from the Crusades/Inquisition.
History repeats itself when the right comes to power -- and the only way they can
come to power is thru lies, propaganda, intimidation, violence, assassinations and
stolen elections.
Those stolen elections began long before 2000 and 2004.
And the role of the corporate-press in those stolen elections couldn't be clearer
than what we saw in 2000. The large computers used by MSM to report vote results
began to come in during the mid-1960's and eventually came to be used not only to
report vote tallies but to PREDICT winners. Or, as we saw in 2000, for Fox News, John Ellis a cousin of George Bush retracted the call of Florida for Gore and then a short time later called it for Bush!
Add to that the electronic voting machines which have so successfully distorted
our elections.
Coincidentally, these machines all began to come in about the time we were passing
The Voting Rights Act.
See: Votescam/The Stealing of America
http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
Sioux Rose
CONSCIENCE: Most interesting post. Thank you.
I forget sometimes that Noam Chomsky is the most quoted writer in the world and that is encouraging in my darkest moments of wondering. I guess I was more thinking about why people go along with propaganda. Why do the reporters report it and why do the masses soak it in like sponges? Maybe there are more people than I realize that are "standing up to the madness" to quote Amy Goodman.
On a different note, was the breakdown of the barrier between the Justice Dept. and the Exec. branch a new phenomena during the Bush years or was it that the Bush Admin. was so much more evil than past admintrations. That's difficult to conceptualize when there were the likes of Reagan, Truman, etc.
Nixon paved the way for Bush/Cheney . . .
but especially the NON-PROSECUTION OF NIXON paved the way . . .
Nixon was certainly trying to use the DOJ to prevent Watergate
from being fully investigated.
As you may recall, while Nixon resigned, he was not prosecuted ...
thanks to Gerald Ford who pardoned him and who was appointed as VP by
Nixon and became president upon Nixon's resignation.
Rep. Gerald Ford is one of the named right-wing legislators whose
campaigns were financed by the CIA with right-wing money.
Another was Sen. Strom Thurmond.
Some of this information came out at the death of Wm. Buckley!
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
susan: maybe you ought to start thinking about these issues not in terms of how/why they broke down but rather in terms of efficiency
which is to say: things are working just fine for the nwo
they move forward
they grow
so, if things are working just fine maybe you need to adjust your view to accommodate this awkward fact
when you do this - you come into focus
you see what is not what seems
now you can react
. . . we are fastly slipping into a sociopathic culture here in the U.S.
It's already happened. The societal insanity of the USA is, as they say, as plain as the nose on your face. From the hundreds of shoppers trampling to death a Wal-Mart employee, to the sadists George Wanker Bush and Cheesedick Cheney ordering torture, to 12 trillion dollars of known government debt, to carrying loaded guns in national parks, to the smooth as a baby's ass lying of Borax Obysmal, to the fact there isn't a peep out of the population about any of this . . . the USA has become a snake pit. We are the Titicut Follies writ large.
You said that right. The other day I went with my teenage daughter to a music store and couldn't help notice how the predominate theme on the covers of the CDs was darkness, blood, skulls, monsters and freaks. On the way home I noticed a number of cars with large skull decals on them. While getting out of my car I noticed that the kid crossing the street had a black t-shirt on emblazoned with small skulls and snakes while an F18 fighter streaked overhead (I live next to an airport). What a sick society we have become: the worlds leading purveyor of terror, death and destruction and its symbols have become a fashion statement.
And equally disgusting is the way liberals now accept the GWOT's fraudulent framework just because Obama is leading it and not Bush. I've gotten into several arguments with Obamots attempting to justify the escalation of death and destruction in Afghanistan. One of these fools argued last year that Obama had made a speech against the war and was going to end it as soon as he became president and another claimed Obama would put an end to torture. Maybe they should buy themselves black t-shirts emblazoned with devils and death too seeing as this is what they now stand for.
Look at what the top selling CDs are. Turn on MTV for a bit. Pussycat dolls, Hannah Montana, Taylor Swift, Britney Spears, Rihanna, Justin Timberlake etc.
Generic bubblegum pop. Not exactly death and torture.
And I would argue that the PROBLEM is that there are not enough people who are "freaks" and "monsters" in society. It is the people who are labeled by society as "freaks" who usually end up questioning mainstream authoritarian opinion. It is usually the people who are freaks who do not buy into prevailing "safe", "normal", societal opinion.
For all you know, that teenager wearing that black t shirt with skulls and snakes might be against the wars. It is ridiculously unfair to try to link him with that F18 jet.
The people supporting Obama, supporting war in Afghanistan, for the most part would hardly consider themselves, and would hardly be considered by mainstream society as "freaks".
I would argue that the world needs more freaks. Not less.
Totally agree! We need freaks and lots of them.
We need freaks that don't eat meat. We need freaks that are vegan. We need freaks that exercise and don't become obese and clutter their veins with fast food grease. We need freaks that ride their bikes to work. We need freaks that look like dorks.
We need freaks that think Republicans and Democrats have sold us down the river. We need freaks that think of wealth transfers for the rich and get a shiver. We need freaks that are against war. We need freaks that don't hide behind doors. We need freaks that believe the way to defeat terrorists is not by becoming one. We need freaks who realize the Democrats have actually increased military spending and retain the right to torture “high-value” suspects.
We need freaks that don't watch temple-vision on Sunday and hours and hours of stupid-vision during the week. We need freaks that turn the other cheek. We need freaks that practice what they preach. We need freaks that don't murder abortion doctors and blow up clinics. We need freaks that don't buy the MSM and their gimmicks. We need freaks that don't need to be told how to think. We need freaks that visit shrinks.
YES WE NEED FREAKS!!!!!
I would argue that the world needs more freaks. Not less.
________________________
Me too.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Ric--I've posted here before of the ridiculous pantie-tossing Obama groupies and their fanatical enthusiasm for HIM--what ever he does, so all I'll say is, Right on!
Of course, then the question is, can we do anything about it? I just don't see how. I held my nose and voted for him as the lesser of two evils, but I really wonder how lesser he was, given what he's done and said up to date.
As an ancient immigrant, I'm actually wondering how I'd get on back in the old country. It's depressing.
"Of course, then the question is can we do anything about it?"
Currently, it's about getting ahead and screwing others as a way of life. It's about capitalism and making a profit no matter what the environment or social cost. The entire system is about "me" and what I need and want.
We need a radical revolution of the mind; our minds. Until people transcend "me" and start thinking in terms of "we" nothing can be done, but we are making progress.
The lies are getting harder to swallow. It's getting harder and harder for the establishment to promulgate their lies and deception. Don't be depressed, eventually the truth will come out, and all will see. Then, we will move on to a sustainable system that respects life and is based on compassion not profit.
FWIW, commuting to work from an adjacent suburb to Philadelphia (PA), I too have noticed a gradual increase in skull-and-bones and violence, weaponry, or death symbology themes in clothing and other pop culture merchandise.
A very long time ago, I mentioned to an older co-worker that almost overnight, all of the young neighborhood women coming into our office for services were wearing similar hideous earrings that looked like door-knockers.
Having a teenage daughter of her own, my friend replied, "Oh, honey, that's The Fashion! One morning on 52nd Street they put them out, the first wave hits the schools and neighborhood, and by the end of the day they're selling out. C'est la vie!"
It was a good point, and it certainly applies to this trend-- most people wear the stuff because it's The Fashion, not to express an attitude or personal philosophy. There are exceptions, of course-- I'm not sure if teens/tweens still dress in elaborate styles, e.g. "Goth", but in any case that sort of costuming is obviously self-conscious.
There are even whimsical varieties, e.g. Hello Kitty skulls wearing pink bows. Undeniably cute, in a Wednesday Addams way. Mostly, though, I find this trend incipiently sinister or ominious, but perhaps that's because I'm an aging peacenik.
It's not just for Halloween any more!
· Yr Obd't Servant
"There are exceptions, of course-- I'm not sure if teens/tweens still dress in elaborate styles, e.g. "Goth", but in any case that sort of costuming is obviously self-conscious."
Goths are way too often unfairly maligned. How many people who support torture, who get into all kinds of verbal contortions justifying the bombing of civilian villagers, are Goths?
Just because people are choosing to dress in a certain way does not mean that they support torture and killing. How many of the usual right wing figures, Cheney et al, dress in skulls, much less skulls with pink bows? In fact, it is the right who often rant and rave about the dressing, the culture of the young. The right often rants and raves about the "freaks" among the young. This happens all throughout history.
I certainly didn't malign Goth dress, or even imply that Goths support torture and killing. I was only making a distinction between dressing in whatever the hot fashion of the day is vs. dressing according to a certain style or "look" to make a personal statement.
"Goth" just happened to be the only style that popped into my head-- that's why I wrote "e.g.".
Didn't mean to touch a nerve.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Thank you again Mr. Greenwald, for revealing that once again, the Emperor Wears No Clothes.
MSM is becoming increasingly irrelevant.
TRUTH IS WHATEVER WE SAY IT IS, TODAY. Signed: The Torturers and attested to by the new Dimrat President and Dimrats back to Klinton. (these are the "New" Dimrats, they don't spit, they swallow)
Everything else didn't happen, wasn't happening even when it was happening...
Don't fly in any single engine aircraft Glenn, we like having you around.
the notion of agreement on the legalities of torture in the memos is the fawning corporate media simply doing its job
lying its ass off to the american people
when i hear about newspapers going under these days i say good riddance you lying bastards
i read recently that the average age of someone who listens to the corporate news is 60
average age of cnn viewer 59
fawning corporate media have a demographic issue to say the least
many of the "issues" as defined by the fcm - fawning corporate media - are generational
gay marriage is not an issue for most americans under the age of 30 for example
same with abortion
the nwo/controllers haven't got any means to brainwash or indoctrinate the younger age groups because the kids - quite rightly - ignore them
can't wait for nbc, cbs, abc, fox, and cnn to sign off for the last time
hopefully that will be soon
i'm sick of brian williams, charlie what's his name and katie check out my polyps couric - the sarah palin of news
good riddance you lying bastards
Could you please, please, pretty please, ma g, write normally? You take up so much space with disconnected phrases that it's hopeless trying to read what you're writing.
Try paying attention to what's actually being said and not
the presentation --
which I happen to think is preferable to yours!
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
I think her one-sentence paragraph style is fine and is effective. The anti-corporate activist Russell Mokhiber used a similar style in his columns.
the answer is no
if u don't like em - don't read em
if you are dazed by the phrase take some advil or maybe a nap
or ignore them
i will understand
Ditto.
Bless you, Glenn Greenwald.