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Cheney: Support for Israel Feeds Terrorism
If we hear in the coming days that former Vice President Dick Cheney has fired one of his speechwriters — or perhaps grounded Lynne or Liz — it will be clear why.
Oozing out of the sleazy speech he gave Thursday at the American Enterprise Institute was an inadvertent truth regarding the Israeli albatross hanging around the neck of U.S. policy in the Middle East.
I watched the speech, but had missed the gaffe until I went carefully through the written text before a radio interview Thursday evening. It amounts to a major faux pas, though I’ll give you odds that the usual-suspect pundits of the Fawning Corporate Media (FCM) will not touch it, because it raises troubling questions about the close U.S. relationship with Israel.
I wanted my 10-year-old grandson to learn a nice word to describe the arguments in the former Vice President’s speech, so he has now learned “disingenuous.” Today we’ll study “superficial,” for that is the right adjective to assign to both Cheney and President Barack Obama as they addressed the threat of “terrorism,” the threat always guaranteed to resonate among Americans — much like the threat of communism did, not too many decades back.
To burnish his anti-terrorist credentials, Obama pledged to do whatever is necessary to protect the United States and warned that al-Qaeda is "actively plotting to attack us again.”
What continues to be missing in the rhetoric of both Obama and Cheney is any discussion of al-Qaeda’s actual capability to perpetrate, in Cheney’s words, “a 9/11 with nuclear weapons” or some other scary thought designed to make Americans hand over their liberties for some dubious promise of safety. Equally important -- and equally missing -- there is never any sensible examination of the motives that might be driving what Cheney called this “same assortment of killers and would-be mass murderers [who] are still there.”
There are a number of reasons why al-Qaeda and other terrorist movements wish to attack us, but this question never gets a complete – or honest – answer, certainly not from the FCM or from the mouths of politicians like Cheney and Obama.
Why They Hate Us
Cheney’s explanation of a motive mostly reprised George W. Bush’s old “the terrorists hate our freedoms” canard. Cheney said the terrorists hate “all the things that make us a force for good in the world — for liberty, for human rights, for the rational, peaceful resolution of differences,” an odd set of qualities for Cheney to cite given his roles in violating constitutional rights, torturing captives and spreading falsehoods to justify invading Iraq.
But that’s also where Cheney slipped up. You didn’t notice? Well, Cheney couldn’t resist expanding on the complaints of the terrorists:
“They have never lacked for grievances against the United States. Our belief in freedom of speech and religion…our belief in equal rights for women…our support for Israel… — these are the true sources of resentment…”
“Our support for Israel.” Cheney got that part right.
My radio interview Thursday was with an FCM station, and I thought I would make an extra effort to be “fair and balanced.” So I noted that, to his credit, Cheney — advertently or inadvertently — did articulate one of the (usually unspoken) key reasons “why they hate us.”
I was immediately jumped on, figuratively, not only by the interviewee representing “the other side,” but also by the not-so-fair-and-balanced moderator. My interlocutors did not seem all that hospitable to facts, but I thought I owed them a try at adducing some anyway.
9/11, and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed…and 9/11…
In his speech, Cheney mentioned 9/11 some 30 Times — for reasons that by this stage are obvious to all. Referring specifically to waterboarding, Cheney said that waterboardee Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, “the mastermind of 9/11 … also boasted about beheading Daniel Pearl.” (Here, I thought, is a really good example of “disingenuous” — a nice concrete example for my grandson. For the only thing Khalid Sheikh Mohammed did NOT take responsibility for, after being waterboarded 183 Times, was climate change.)
But since the name Khalid Sheikh Mohammed came up, I asked my two interlocutors if they knew how “KSM” explained why he masterminded 9/11. Apparently, neither had made it as far as page 147 of the 9/11 Commission Report, so I told them what the 9/11 Commission found on that key point:
“By his own account, KSM’s animus toward the United States stemmed not from his experience there as a student, but rather from his violent disagreement with U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel.”
KSM, you see, had attended North Carolina A & T in Greensboro, and apparently the first thought that came to those drafting the 9/11 report was that perhaps he had suffered some gross indignity accounting for his hatred for America. Not so.
Moreover, the footnote section (page 488 of the 9/11 Commission Report) reveals that KSM was not the only terrorist motivated by “U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel”:
“On KSM’s rationale for attacking the United States, see Intelligence report, interrogation of KSM, Sept. 5, 2003 (in this regard, KSM’s statements echo those of Yousef, who delivered an extensive polemic against U.S. foreign policy at his January 1998 sentencing).”
The reference is to Ramzi Yousef, KSM’s nephew. The 9/11 Commission Report had noted earlier (page 147) that, “Yousef’s instant notoriety as the mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing inspired KSM to become involved in planning attacks against the United States.”
In the “Recommendations” section of its final report, the 9/11 Commission suggested:
“America’s policy choices have consequences. Right or wrong, it is simply a fact that American policy regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and American actions in Iraq are dominant staples of popular commentary across the Arab and Muslim world. … Neither Israel nor the new Iraq will be safer if worldwide Islamist terrorism grows stronger.” (pp 376-377)
These observations seemed to strike my radio interlocutors as unfit for the airwaves. When the shouts of protest died down, there was an opportunity to offer additional evidence, so I threw in what a prestigious board appointed by the Pentagon had to say about all this over four years ago.
Defense Science Board Report
Are you ready for a scoop that is not a scoop, but that almost no one knows about?
It has to do with an unclassified study published, not by some “liberal” think-tank, but by the Pentagon-appointed U.S. Defense Science Board just two months after the 9/11 Commission Report. That report directly contradicted what Cheney and President Bush had been saying about “why they hate us,” letting the elephant out of the bag and into the room, so to speak:
“Muslims do not ‘hate our freedom,’ but rather, they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the longstanding, even increasing support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf States. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy.”
You didn’t know about that report? Well, maybe this is because of the timing. The Defense Science Board final report was given to Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on Sept. 23, 2004, just weeks before the presidential election.
That is a time when presidential candidates and the U.S. Establishment in general are hyper-allergic to discussing how U.S. support for Israeli policies toward the Palestinians encourages the recruitment of anti-American terrorists.
Suppressed, Then Gutted
Bending over backwards to oblige, the FCM suppressed the Defense Science Board findings until after the election. On Nov. 24, 2004, the New York Times, erstwhile “newspaper of record,” did publish a story on the board’s report — but performed some highly interesting surgery.
Thom Shanker of the Times quoted the paragraph beginning with "Muslims do not 'hate our freedom'" (see above), but he or his editors deliberately cut out the following sentence about what Muslims do object to; i.e., U.S. "one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights" and support for tyrannical regimes. The Times did include the sentence that immediately followed the omitted one. In other words, it was not simply a matter of shortening the paragraph. Rather, the offending middle sentence was surgically removed.
Similarly creative editing showed through the Times' reporting in late October 2004 on a videotaped speech by Osama bin Laden. Almost six paragraphs of the story made it onto page one, but the Times saw to it that the key point bin Laden made at the beginning of his presentation was relegated to paragraphs 23 to 25 at the very bottom of page nine.
Buried there was bin Laden's assertion that the idea for 9/11 first germinated after "we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American-Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon."
Wading through the drivel in the FCM’s Times and Washington Post on Friday morning, I am hardly surprised that they missed Cheney’s slip about U.S. policy toward Israel being one of the terrorists’ “true sources of resentment.”
This article appeared first on Consortiumnews.com.
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117 Comments so far
Show AllRay McGovern ought to be Sec. of State. The discourse coming from our govt. is utter nonsense compared to that of Mr. McGovern
Actually we could fill the whole cabinet with those that have written articles featured on this website. Wouldn't that be something? The Common Dreams Cabinet!
The Dream Team! :)
It's a 2 way street. Muslim countries don't recognize Israel's right to exist, and vow to destroy it. A fact that many on the left conveniently forget.
What? Do you know who McGovern is, or his background?
Israel is an Apartheid state that does not have the right to exist in its present form as a Jewish Supremacist state, denying the rights of the indigenous population. The only reason it exists in its present form is the support and protection from the US Empire. More money goes to Israel per capita, than any other country on earth.
Time to turn off the TV news, back away from the computer and crack some history books open. Do you know what the Balfour Declaration was? Who is responsible for the boundaries of the Middle East? Sorry to sound arrogant , but please do your homework before posting some BS like that
In other words, Jews have no right to their national self-determination. They not only deserve this, they need it. Anti-Semitism is alive and kicking, and Jewish ppl should have place where they are not subject to a hateful majority. Look at this very board, Socialist! Don't you see the same old crap prejudice against Jews here? Both the Jews and the Arabs deserve peace. However, the Arabs do not deserve victory. And long strung out arguements asserting that Arab victory is justice won't ever change that.
Listen up, sir. I formerly supported Israel and Zionism, subscribed to the Jerusalem Post, all those things, and then was startled when a family member went there carrying the bias I had, and came back different, gave his eyewitness account brutal crackdowns on peaceful Palestinian protest by people who wanted to keep their land, heard IDF soldiers making cavalier jokes about kids they'd shot near checkpoints, saw all the signs of an apartheid state. The reality of what Zionism is betrayed my faith in it.
You conflate Israel with the survival of the Jewish people. It is anything but identical, and I know quite a few Diaspora Jews who'll agree. The history shows that Jews lived far more peacefully in the Middle East than they did in Europe for centuries before. What Israel represents is disruptive colonial-style theft of land from its natives to establish racist rule for people with connections further back in time than any unbiased legal system would recognize as a right. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, to be respected, to be treated like neighbors and human beings. I watched the peace process of Oslo crash, I've seen ceasefire after ceasefire fail with far greater violation and determination from the Israeli government, which when it was not breaking promises simply because it could, it let any loose Palestinian cannon from the places it oppressed serve as an excuse for large-scale brutalization of such a large population of the country that the resident racists feared they would not retain a majority in this "Jewish" state.
Jews are a part of that land, they are not the sum of it. They have a right to be there. They do not have a right to have a Jewish state on the present boundaries. That is a plural country, not a Jewish one. Israel's actions are not self-defense, especially the recent atrocity of Gaza. That's not anyone's right, and the argument of the demonic Arab bogeymen who will not rest until Jews are exterminated is disingenuous and falls very, very flat.
Wow, my conservative, midwestern, Catholic parents went to Israel on several trips. They were very pro-Israel, admired the Jews, were aghast at the Holocaust, etc. before the visited. Now they absolutely hate Israel. Why? The beatings of Palestinians, the heavily armed police state, the sense of entitlement the Israeli population has about OUR money, their use of OUR arms against defenseless Palestinian civilians. They were taken aback by the open discussion of how stupid Americans are, and how easily they are used.
So, it's not that posters here hate Jews. They hate Zionism and the cost it has imposed on the ordinary American. You can fabricate and articulate all the lies you want, but the simple fact is that Israel is one of the most despicable countries in the world because of their parasitic behavior towards the US and their treatment of the Palestinians they haven't killed or driven off. Shameful. SHAMEFUL!
I grew up supporting Israel and buying the line about the evil PLO terrorists. I was being fed only half the story.
Zionists could have had their homeland and lived in peace with the Arabs. But they were arrogant and greedy. I mean, God gave them that land right? Many prominent Jews were calling for a one state solution but the Zionists wanted it all for themselves. It is beyond me how anyone would expect the Palestinians to just roll over when an outsider came in, displaced them, and relegated them to second class citizen status.
I do know who Ray McGovern is.
Do you know that in ancient times, this was the area of the Jewish homeland?
DO you know that the Jews were expelled from this area during the Roman times?
Do you know that the Arabs conquered the area, forcing Islam on the people?
Do you know that ever since Israel came into existance, Muslim groups and nations vowed to destroy it?
Yes, Israel has to abandon its Jewish Supremacist attitude, but the Palestinians have to abandon their Arab Supremacist attitude.
Why is it wrong for Jews to act arrogantly, but okay for Arabs to do so?
I did a lot of reading on the area, looking at both sides of the coin. DOn't have the audacity to assume that because I disagree with you that I'm ignorant.
Fact. Prior to thew Arrival of teh Hebrews this land was inhabited by the Cannanites. (There were no Israelites back then)
Fact DNA tests of peoples in the area and the Canaanites show that the Palestinians are the people most directly related to the Ancient Canaanites.
Fact. The Romans did not expel all jews from Palestine. They expelled the Zealots. Those willing to accept Roman rule were allowed to stay. Many of these later converted to Christianity and then later to Islam.
Fact Islam recognized Christianity and Judaism all of the book and allowed these faiths to be practiced in their lands. Thus throughout the Islamic world there were large communities of Jews and Christians.
In the Christian world the Muslims of Spain and other regions were slaughtered and those that followed Judaism suffered pogrom after pogrom and were forcibly expelled from England, Spain and other countries.
Fact.
The Jewish people that came to Palestine were EUROPEAN. They forcibly displaced the people living there using VIOLENCE. Their leaders claimed the Palestinians did not exist and that the land was empty of people. Their leadership claimed that any peoples that lived on what they deemed Jewish soil would be driven out. (I guess it ok to make those statements then but if an Arab makes the same statement it shows how violent Arabs are)
These Europeans WERE the invaders. Claiming they would be destroyed by the peoples living there is no different then Tecumseh claiming he would drive the Whites of lands he deemed as belonging to The Indingent peoples of the Americas, nor any different the Red Cloud claiming he would drive the Whites out of the Sacred territories of the Black hills.
Fact.
The Europeans who invaded the Americas at least understood that the Native Americans had rights to the land and sought to sign treaties with them. While many of these treaties were violated, that does not mean title not recognized. The Native Americans ceded over stretches of territory in return for considerations they felt important to them as people.
The Europeans that invaded Israel did not recognize the Palestinains as having any title to the lands. They drove them off by force and then claimed that because they fled they had no right to return. To this day they refuse to compensate for lands stolen.
FACT
The Invasion of the Americas happened hundreds of years ago when the State of Law at the international stage was still evolving. While there were certainly MORAL violations of Indingent rights at the time, International law did not recognize legal violations.
As example no International law existed that stated that land could not be seized by Conquest and then colonized.
This is very different from the time when the State of Israel founded. Israel was founded in violation of all international laws that existed. Furtehrmore the principle that land could not seized by conquest and then colonized was violated both in 1948 and in 1967.
During the period of Colonization , European Nation States "claimed" vast stretches of New found territory as their own. They could and did do that because as far as the law of THE TIME was concerned it was perfectly "legal".
No one could suggest that the same rules hold true today and that a Russia or a USA can simply claim Australia as US or Russian territory. The reason is because laws EVOLVED just as they have from The time of the Canaanites.
It a simple point of logic.
If one wants to claim that the Lands of Palestine belong to Israel because of persons of the Jewish faith having lived there 2000 years ago, then by the same LOGIC the lands belong to the peoples of Canaan and their descendants.
In other words basing the "Right" of a people to occupy a land based upon what happened 2000 years ago is absurd.
I have a question...how was the original ancient Canaanites' DNA tested?
They have found burial sites all over the region. All that is needed are samples of hair and the like. Archaeological digs has this are inhabited far before the Hebrews were SAID to arrive.
There is this common myth that when one group of people invades anothers territory, the orginal inhabitants are all driven out or killed.
This is NOT THE CASE.
The vast majority of the time, while the original Inhabitants become subjugated, they remain living in the area. There are marriages and intermingling of the two groups.
As an example while not having the particulars they did a DNA check in an area of England near the border with Scotland where the reimains dated far back into pre history.
The CELTS were not the first Inhabitants of the British Isles. The Welsh are the oldest group of people there. In any case using that dna they found a direct linkage to a family that was living within miles of where these ancient bones and remains found.
Now getting back to Palestine. Via DNA the Palestinians living in that area today are more closely related to the Shepardic Jews (Mainly Jewish people that remained in the area rather then being forced out) then they were to many other Semites.
Palestinians and those Jews that can be traced back to that region of the world are very close cousins.
Can you trace some of the DNA in Palestinians to teh Arabs of the Arabbic peninsula? Of course. Youc an also trace some to Greek, Roman , and Egyptian invaders. Just as a good many of peoples in East Europe can trace ancestry back to The Mongols , The Celts, The Scythians and Nordic peoples. There is no such thing as a "Pure" anybody. We are all mongrels of some sort.
Needless to say if you go far enough back we are ALL Cousins.
The point being using the BIBLE as proof of ownership of a land is simply without merit. It a work of fiction. Even IN that work of Fiction Hebrews are said to come from The region of UR.
Does that mean Iraq belongs to the jews? No one would make that claim. The only reason the same flawed reasoning is used to stake ownership of the lands of Palestine is because of "Biblical Interpertation" and not because of International law, or good science.
I'm just asking a simple question dude, no need to over explain. Got a link for the DNA comparison?
http://www.ccg.org/English/S/P265.html
The article concludes that the MAJORITY of people who call themselves Jewish are not of semitic descent.
>>Under current understanding, the staggering figures are that two-thirds of Ashkenazi-Levite YDNA is not Semitic. Almost 10 % are Celt and an amazing 52% are Slavic YDNA.
>>What is certain is that the adherents of Rabbinical Judaism are not wholly Jewish or Israelite, and 63% of all Jews are either Hamitic or Japhethite converts to Judaism; that is, unless it can be shown that some aspects of K are Semitic rather than Japhethite, which would throw the YDNA sequencing into complete revision.
The Canaanites are listed as one of the earlier SEMITIC peoples linked both genetically and via the language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
>>Geneticists generally agree there was mixing in Middle East populations. Nebel et al. (2000) doing Y-chromosome haplotype analysis for patrilineal ancestry of Jews and Palestinian Muslims "revealed a common gene pool for a large portion of Y chromosomes, suggesting a relatively recent common ancestry". The two modal haplotypes that comprise the Palestinian Arab clade were very infrequent among Jews, "reflecting divergence and/or admixture from other populations". Nebel et al. regard their findings in good agreement with historical evidence that suggest that "Part, or perhaps the majority, of the Muslim Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD... These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistoric times.[208]
Note the former is an attempt to advance Biblical history using science but site does link to the original articles.
Of equaly interest is the origin of languages.
Now if the science correct as outlined in the first article and some 67 percent of persons calling themsleves Jewish are not really Semites at all , and the Palestinian Arabs are virtually all semitic with genes traced back to neolithic times , it suggests to me that the Paelstinian Arabs have longer roots in the land.
They were poples that converted to the various religions as they took old in the area, thus many of them were previously followers of Judaism.
Uh, the entire article is an attempt to prove evolutionary scientists wrong about biblical tribes, wtf man. And there is no link to an original article, just a map. No author, no citations, etc. I'm surprised you would use something like this from a church as evidence for an argument.
And I MENTIONED that they are BOTH citing "wikipedia and the articlle) the same science.
Why dont you read the SCIENCE they cite and INTERPERT it for yourself rather then accept their conclusions.? Is this beyond you? I am not going to run around pulling articles down for you. You have the capability to do this yourself.
The science the article cites is what you have to refute NOT THE ARTICLES conclusions. Is the ARTICLE wrong when it concludes the DNA of most jews Slavic..Yes or NO? Have you read much history and are you able to correlate that history to the science? If you can not why not? Do you need my to cite historical articles as well that show how many East Europeans converted to Judaism? Or that not all the Jews were expelled by the Romans?
If you need to be spoon fed the conclusions then there really no use having this debate and i will ignore your requests for links in the future.
This article was intended as a starting point for you. if you doubt the conclusions that I make from my own reading then I am not obligated to direct you elsewhere. If you are really interested you can do that for yourself. There are literally thousands of links to the research. There articles are include Linguistic origins of various groups, Ethnic and Genetic origins, and the Historial and archaelogical record. All are tied together.
Do you know THAT WE'VE READ ALL THE AIPAC TALKING POINTS before, and pretty much whacked each one like whack-a-mole?
Zionists think that by raising arguments that were long ago rejected, they'll trap some who are new to the process.
KeLeMi,
Bullshit. Typical AIPAC spin.
gracchus, typical far left spin, lots of name calling and rhetoric, but no facts.
Hilarious - a right wing Zionists pretending to have facts, when we all know they only know what AIPAC and Rush tell them. And those ain't facts.
I am no fan of either AIPAC or Rush or Dick or Sarah. -
You just advocate good old fashioned Imperialism, ethnic cleansing, and war crimes, just like a racist right-wing hate monger should. I don't blame you I pity you
And you advocate lying. I don't advocate good old fashioned Imperialism, ethnic cleansing, and war crimes,in fact I strongly condemned them in Yugoslavis and Sudan to name 2 places that did it. Stop prejudging people and lying about what they say.
Treaties have been offered that would trade recognition of Israel with full diplomatic ties for a return to their June 4, 1967 borders. Israel has rejected this arrangement on numerous occasions.
Don’t write twaddle. Counties do not have “a right to exist”, they are “recognised”!
If Israel is not recognised by some counties it is perhaps because it was forced upon the Middle East without proper consultation and since then as a country or uncomfortable neighbour has behaved as a repeated aggressor towards all around, usually claim the other guy started it, while trying to grab as much territory as it can.
There may have been a few “vows” to destroy Israel, so what? But more realistically it has been suggested that the artificial creation of a Jewish state on Palestinian lands, populated primarily by European immigrants, dominated by racist Zionists was a fundamental “mistake” by post WWII powers and that error should be “amended” in history to accommodate fairly the indigenous population that has been displaced and made to suffer for the last 60 years.
It has not to date been a two way street for Palestinians, more like a one way path to tyrrany and hell, and it will not be until they are also given a defined and contagious homeland, with secure borders, the right to return as well as compensation for the years of destruction, damages and suffering they have had to endure under illegal occupation and acts of barbarous terrorism by the State of Israel.
Muslim countries? You mean all of them, or maybe just 2? Or maybe it is just mis-phrasing one man? Before stooping to hyperbole, please present your data factually. Otherwise you'll get put down.
I suggest here that there may be more Americans than Arabs that are sick of Israel. Discussion is open.
True.
And regarding Israel's right to exist, it's a poor phrase. More like Britain's right to carve out imperial territories in the Middle East and trigger a mass exodus by giving it to another group of people--a right it of course did not have. Imperialism is imperialism even when it's done "altruistically". Although the altruism is more than questionable, since the fact of that strip of land being occupied by well-armed and zealous Jews has probably served ten times more good for the United States and England that for world Jewry.
As a leftist I am wondering, why does Israel have a right to exist? The people who lived in the land called Palestine had nothing to do with the European pogrom against the Jews. So why do European Jews have a right to take over and then oppress the people who lived in Palestine? Also why does the U S support Israel in this oppression by supplying the arms that make it possible? I have seen your argument before, but it is never qualified. I guess I am asking you to make it clear why Israel has a right to exist in this particular place.
SamHam: "As a leftist I am wondering, why does Israel have a right to exist?"
Why the USA have a right to exist? The USA was founded by European settlers who took land from the natives (and from Mexico). Why Canada? Why Australia? Greece, Turkey, Jordan. All the nations on this planet were build on land stolen from others. All.
The question, SamHam, is: Why are you fixated only on the existance of the Jewish state. Is it because you have something special against Jews?
The word for the likes of you is not leftist, but something else.
Israel does not have the right to exist for three reasons:
1) It is an illegal and immoral invasion, supplanting with violence the indigenous people
2) It is genocidal in nature
3) It is causing a huge amount of suffering for the entire world, not to mention the US in particular.
If you know of any other country that is worse in all three of the above, then by all means, it shouldn't exist. But nobody beats Israel, I'm afraid.
USA, China, Russia, Sudan, to name a few.
your point about the emergence of nation states is accurate enough, but it's a strawman. personally, i do think we should come to an amenable agreement with native Americans, Mexicans and others whose lands we've unrightfully expropriated, even after more than a century and half.
that said, you've just made an argument for might makes right, that Israel has a right that it conquered for, and you're apparently okay with that because others have done the same thing.
i don't have the answer on when enough time is enough time, or a statute of limitations on historical claims to territory has been eclipsed. but the fact is that Israel has emerged as an utterly abusive state, and it should be stopped.
(yes, we are, too, and that should stop as well).
Fair enough. (Assuming that when you say "should be stopped" you don't mean "quistion its right to exist".)
How should it be stopped? and from what?
Stopped from expanding settlements on occupied land, hell yes.
Stopped from launching attacks against the people who live in territories that are occupied by the Israeli army, hell yes again.
But how to accomplish such a goal? If the people of Israel stop their government from actions like the above, then cool. But if it takes the effort of other nations to bring about an end to preemptive war, to the wanton murder of people who live in occupied territories, then yes, the right of Israel to exist will come to an end.
The last remnants of occupation will end soon, and a peaceful Palestinian state will be established alongside Israel.
This is what most Israelis and most Palestinians want.
[The last remnants of occupation will end soon, and a peaceful Palestinian state will be established alongside Israel.]
I see no evidence of such a thing comming. Certainly not with the current gov't of Israel, or are you going to argue that a mystical 'saviour of all mankind' is on his way?
Yep - all the assurances from Zionists are worth squat. Waiting for a two state solution?
You might be waiting for Godot. In the meantime, genocide is perpetrated.
The Israeli Government will agree to a Palestinian state bacuse that's what most Israelis support that solution.
Also the right wing government may cave in to pressuer from Obama.
I'll believe it when I see it. The right wing gov't seems to ignore any and all pressure to make peace with its neighbours. Benny has said that Jerusalem is going to be the sole capital of Israel forever, he's ruled out any idea that the '67 border is something to be returned to. The settlements will continue, there will not be any prosecution for settlers who shoot or beat the Palistinians who used to live on the land the settlers have siezed.
"USA, China, Russia, Sudan, to name a few."
Get rid of Israel, and you get rid of a huge hunk of the problems caused by the US, so no, I don't accept your premise. As for all those mentioned, Israel is far worse.
When the peoples of the world, and especially the Jewish people can stand with Rachel Corrie and say to the Palestinians,“you are our brothers and our sisters,” then that monstrous and devouring entity, born of the psycho-pathological dreams of t.herzl, d.ben gurion and others, the state which hides behind the name “israel”, can disappear and fall back into the abyss in the human spirit from which it arose..
>>Why the USA have a right to exist? The USA was founded by European settlers who took land from the natives (and from Mexico). Why Canada? Why Australia? Greece, Turkey, Jordan. All the nations on this planet were build on land stolen from others. All.
The USA has never demanded "The Right to exist".
Nor has Canada or New Zealand.
KeLeMi;---are you one of these volunteers? ---http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056648.html------------just wondering. the zionists sent many on their mission of disinformation, after their illegal attack on gulag gaza.
No, I am just trying to see both sides of the story. Do you always prejudge people?
In case you forget, Egypt and Jordan have signed peace treaties with Israel. It's kinda hard to sign a treaty with a state you don't officially recognize as existing, isn't it?
Yep - the Palestinian Authority recognized Israel, and see where that got them.
It got them 100% of Gaza and 41% of the west bank.
Then the Hamas took over Gaza. See what they have brought upon the poor people of Gaza since their coup.
You are a buffoon aren't you? Gaza is not free. It has no control of its borders whether it be land, air or sea. Gaza is an open air prison you stupid fuckwit!
Gaza is under blocate.
There is no Israeli occupation inside Gaza though.