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Unexceptional Americans: Why We Can't See the Trees or the Forest: The Torture Memos and Historical Amnesia
The torture memos released by the White House elicited shock, indignation, and surprise. The shock and indignation are understandable. The surprise, less so.
For one thing, even without inquiry, it was reasonable to suppose that Guantanamo was a torture chamber. Why else send prisoners where they would be beyond the reach of the law -- a place, incidentally, that Washington is using in violation of a treaty forced on Cuba at the point of a gun? Security reasons were, of course, alleged, but they remain hard to take seriously. The same expectations held for the Bush administration's "black sites," or secret prisons, and for extraordinary rendition, and they were fulfilled.
More importantly, torture has been routinely practiced from the early days of the conquest of the national territory, and continued to be used as the imperial ventures of the "infant empire" -- as George Washington called the new republic -- extended to the Philippines, Haiti, and elsewhere. Keep in mind as well that torture was the least of the many crimes of aggression, terror, subversion, and economic strangulation that have darkened U.S. history, much as in the case of other great powers.
Accordingly, what's surprising is to see the reactions to the release of those Justice Department memos, even by some of the most eloquent and forthright critics of Bush malfeasance: Paul Krugman, for example, writing that we used to be "a nation of moral ideals" and never before Bush "have our leaders so utterly betrayed everything our nation stands for." To say the least, that common view reflects a rather slanted version of American history.
Occasionally the conflict between "what we stand for" and "what we do" has been forthrightly addressed. One distinguished scholar who undertook the task at hand was Hans Morgenthau, a founder of realist international relations theory. In a classic study published in 1964 in the glow of Camelot, Morgenthau developed the standard view that the U.S. has a "transcendent purpose": establishing peace and freedom at home and indeed everywhere, since "the arena within which the United States must defend and promote its purpose has become world-wide." But as a scrupulous scholar, he also recognized that the historical record was radically inconsistent with that "transcendent purpose."
We should not be misled by that discrepancy, advised Morgenthau; we should not "confound the abuse of reality with reality itself." Reality is the unachieved "national purpose" revealed by "the evidence of history as our minds reflect it." What actually happened was merely the "abuse of reality."
The release of the torture memos led others to recognize the problem. In the New York Times, columnist Roger Cohen reviewed a new book, The Myth of American Exceptionalism, by British journalist Geoffrey Hodgson, who concludes that the U.S. is "just one great, but imperfect, country among others." Cohen agrees that the evidence supports Hodgson's judgment, but nonetheless regards as fundamentally mistaken Hodgson's failure to understand that "America was born as an idea, and so it has to carry that idea forward." The American idea is revealed in the country's birth as a "city on a hill," an "inspirational notion" that resides "deep in the American psyche," and by "the distinctive spirit of American individualism and enterprise" demonstrated in the Western expansion. Hodgson's error, it seems, is that he is keeping to "the distortions of the American idea," "the abuse of reality."
Let us then turn to "reality itself": the "idea" of America from its earliest days.
"Come Over and Help Us"
The inspirational phrase "city on a hill" was coined by John Winthrop in 1630, borrowing from the Gospels, and outlining the glorious future of a new nation "ordained by God." One year earlier his Massachusetts Bay Colony created its Great Seal. It depicted an Indian with a scroll coming out of his mouth. On that scroll are the words "Come over and help us." The British colonists were thus pictured as benevolent humanists, responding to the pleas of the miserable natives to be rescued from their bitter pagan fate.
The Great Seal is, in fact, a graphic representation of "the idea of America," from its birth. It should be exhumed from the depths of the psyche and displayed on the walls of every classroom. It should certainly appear in the background of all of the Kim Il-Sung-style worship of that savage murderer and torturer Ronald Reagan, who blissfully described himself as the leader of a "shining city on the hill," while orchestrating some of the more ghastly crimes of his years in office, notoriously in Central America but elsewhere as well.
The Great Seal was an early proclamation of "humanitarian intervention," to use the currently fashionable phrase. As has commonly been the case since, the "humanitarian intervention" led to a catastrophe for the alleged beneficiaries. The first Secretary of War, General Henry Knox, described "the utter extirpation of all the Indians in most populous parts of the Union" by means "more destructive to the Indian natives than the conduct of the conquerors of Mexico and Peru."
Long after his own significant contributions to the process were past, John Quincy Adams deplored the fate of "that hapless race of native Americans, which we are exterminating with such merciless and perfidious cruelty... among the heinous sins of this nation, for which I believe God will one day bring [it] to judgement." The "merciless and perfidious cruelty" continued until "the West was won." Instead of God's judgment, the heinous sins today bring only praise for the fulfillment of the American "idea."
The conquest and settling of the West indeed showed that "individualism and enterprise," so praised by Roger Cohen. Settler-colonialist enterprises, the cruelest form of imperialism, commonly do. The results were hailed by the respected and influential Senator Henry Cabot Lodge in 1898. Calling for intervention in Cuba, Lodge lauded our record "of conquest, colonization, and territorial expansion unequalled by any people in the 19th century," and urged that it is "not to be curbed now," as the Cubans too were pleading, in the Great Seal's words, "come over and help us."
Their plea was answered. The U.S. sent troops, thereby preventing Cuba's liberation from Spain and turning it into a virtual colony, as it remained until 1959.
The "American idea" was illustrated further by the remarkable campaign, initiated by the Eisenhower administration virtually at once to restore Cuba to its proper place, after Fidel Castro entered Havana in January 1959, finally liberating the island from foreign domination, with enormous popular support, as Washington ruefully conceded. What followed was economic warfare with the clearly articulated aim of punishing the Cuban population so that they would overthrow the disobedient Castro government, invasion, the dedication of the Kennedy brothers to bringing "the terrors of the earth" to Cuba (the phrase of historian Arthur Schlesinger in his biography of Robert Kennedy, who considered that task one of his highest priorities), and other crimes continuing to the present, in defiance of virtually unanimous world opinion.
American imperialism is often traced to the takeover of Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Hawaii in 1898. But that is to succumb to what historian of imperialism Bernard Porter calls "the saltwater fallacy," the idea that conquest only becomes imperialism when it crosses saltwater. Thus, if the Mississippi had resembled the Irish Sea, Western expansion would have been imperialism. From George Washington to Henry Cabot Lodge, those engaged in the enterprise had a clearer grasp of just what they were doing.
After the success of humanitarian intervention in Cuba in 1898, the next step in the mission assigned by Providence was to confer "the blessings of liberty and civilization upon all the rescued peoples" of the Philippines (in the words of the platform of Lodge's Republican party) -- at least those who survived the murderous onslaught and widespread use of torture and other atrocities that accompanied it. These fortunate souls were left to the mercies of the U.S.-established Philippine constabulary within a newly devised model of colonial domination, relying on security forces trained and equipped for sophisticated modes of surveillance, intimidation, and violence. Similar models would be adopted in many other areas where the U.S. imposed brutal National Guards and other client forces.
The Torture Paradigm
Over the past 60 years, victims worldwide have endured the CIA's "torture paradigm," developed at a cost that reached $1 billion annually, according to historian Alfred McCoy in his book A Question of Torture. He shows how torture methods the CIA developed from the 1950s surfaced with little change in the infamous photos at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison. There is no hyperbole in the title of Jennifer Harbury's penetrating study of the U.S. torture record: Truth, Torture, and the American Way. So it is highly misleading, to say the least, when investigators of the Bush gang's descent into the global sewers lament that "in waging the war against terrorism, America had lost its way."
None of this is to say that Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld et al. did not introduce important innovations. In ordinary American practice, torture was largely farmed out to subsidiaries, not carried out by Americans directly in their own government-established torture chambers. As Allan Nairn, who has carried out some of the most revealing and courageous investigations of torture, points out: "What the Obama [ban on torture] ostensibly knocks off is that small percentage of torture now done by Americans while retaining the overwhelming bulk of the system's torture, which is done by foreigners under U.S. patronage. Obama could stop backing foreign forces that torture, but he has chosen not to do so."
Obama did not shut down the practice of torture, Nairn observes, but "merely repositioned it," restoring it to the American norm, a matter of indifference to the victims. "[H]is is a return to the status quo ante," writes Nairn, "the torture regime of Ford through Clinton, which, year by year, often produced more U.S.-backed strapped-down agony than was produced during the Bush/Cheney years."
Sometimes the American engagement in torture was even more indirect. In a 1980 study, Latin Americanist Lars Schoultz found that U.S. aid "has tended to flow disproportionately to Latin American governments which torture their citizens,... to the hemisphere's relatively egregious violators of fundamental human rights." Broader studies by Edward Herman found the same correlation, and also suggested an explanation. Not surprisingly, U.S. aid tends to correlate with a favorable climate for business operations, commonly improved by the murder of labor and peasant organizers and human rights activists and other such actions, yielding a secondary correlation between aid and egregious violation of human rights.
These studies took place before the Reagan years, when the topic was not worth studying because the correlations were so clear.
Small wonder that President Obama advises us to look forward, not backward -- a convenient doctrine for those who hold the clubs. Those who are beaten by them tend to see the world differently, much to our annoyance.
Adopting Bush's Positions
An argument can be made that implementation of the CIA's "torture paradigm" never violated the 1984 Torture Convention, at least as Washington interpreted it. McCoy points out that the highly sophisticated CIA paradigm developed at enormous cost in the 1950s and 1960s, based on the "KGB's most devastating torture technique," kept primarily to mental torture, not crude physical torture, which was considered less effective in turning people into pliant vegetables.
McCoy writes that the Reagan administration then carefully revised the International Torture Convention "with four detailed diplomatic 'reservations' focused on just one word in the convention's 26-printed pages," the word "mental." He continues: "These intricately-constructed diplomatic reservations re-defined torture, as interpreted by the United States, to exclude sensory deprivation and self-inflicted pain -- the very techniques the CIA had refined at such great cost."
When Clinton sent the UN Convention to Congress for ratification in 1994, he included the Reagan reservations. The president and Congress therefore exempted the core of the CIA torture paradigm from the U.S. interpretation of the Torture Convention; and those reservations, McCoy observes, were "reproduced verbatim in domestic legislation enacted to give legal force to the UN Convention." That is the "political land mine" that "detonated with such phenomenal force" in the Abu Ghraib scandal and in the shameful Military Commissions Act that was passed with bipartisan support in 2006.
Bush, of course, went beyond his predecessors in authorizing prima facie violations of international law, and several of his extremist innovations were struck down by the Courts. While Obama, like Bush, eloquently affirms our unwavering commitment to international law, he seems intent on substantially reinstating the extremist Bush measures. In the important case of Boumediene v. Bush in June 2008, the Supreme Court rejected as unconstitutional the Bush administration claim that prisoners in Guantanamo are not entitled to the right of habeas corpus.
Salon.com columnist Glenn Greenwald reviews the aftermath. Seeking to "preserve the power to abduct people from around the world" and imprison them without due process, the Bush administration decided to ship them to the U.S. prison at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan, treating "the Boumediene ruling, grounded in our most basic constitutional guarantees, as though it was some sort of a silly game -- fly your abducted prisoners to Guantanamo and they have constitutional rights, but fly them instead to Bagram and you can disappear them forever with no judicial process."
Obama adopted the Bush position, "filing a brief in federal court that, in two sentences, declared that it embraced the most extremist Bush theory on this issue," arguing that prisoners flown to Bagram from anywhere in the world (in the case in question, Yemenis and Tunisians captured in Thailand and the United Arab Emirates) "can be imprisoned indefinitely with no rights of any kind -- as long as they are kept in Bagram rather than Guantanamo."
In March, however, a Bush-appointed federal judge "rejected the Bush/Obama position and held that the rationale of Boumediene applies every bit as much to Bagram as it does to Guantanamo." The Obama administration announced that it would appeal the ruling, thus placing Obama's Department of Justice, Greenwald concludes, "squarely to the Right of an extremely conservative, pro-executive-power, Bush 43-appointed judge on issues of executive power and due-process-less detentions," in radical violation of Obama's campaign promises and earlier stands.
The case of Rasul v. Rumsfeld appears to be following a similar trajectory. The plaintiffs charged that Rumsfeld and other high officials were responsible for their torture in Guantanamo, where they were sent after being captured by Uzbeki warlord Rashid Dostum. The plaintiffs claimed that they had traveled to Afghanistan to offer humanitarian relief. Dostum, a notorious thug, was then a leader of the Northern Alliance, the Afghan faction supported by Russia, Iran, India, Turkey, and the Central Asian states, and the U.S. as it attacked Afghanistan in October 2001.
Dostum turned them over to U.S. custody, allegedly for bounty money. The Bush administration sought to have the case dismissed. Recently, Obama's Department of Justice filed a brief supporting the Bush position that government officials are not liable for torture and other violations of due process, on the grounds that the Courts had not yet clearly established the rights that prisoners enjoy.
It is also reported that the Obama administration intends to revive military commissions, one of the more severe violations of the rule of law during the Bush years. There is a reason, according to William Glaberson of the New York Times: "Officials who work on the Guantanamo issue say administration lawyers have become concerned that they would face significant obstacles to trying some terrorism suspects in federal courts. Judges might make it difficult to prosecute detainees who were subjected to brutal treatment or for prosecutors to use hearsay evidence gathered by intelligence agencies." A serious flaw in the criminal justice system, it appears.
Creating Terrorists
There is still much debate about whether torture has been effective in eliciting information -- the assumption being, apparently, that if it is effective, then it may be justified. By the same argument, when Nicaragua captured U.S. pilot Eugene Hasenfuss in 1986, after shooting down his plane delivering aid to U.S.-supported Contra forces, they should not have tried him, found him guilty, and then sent him back to the U.S., as they did. Instead, they should have applied the CIA torture paradigm to try to extract information about other terrorist atrocities being planned and implemented in Washington, no small matter for a tiny, impoverished country under terrorist attack by the global superpower.
By the same standards, if the Nicaraguans had been able to capture the chief terrorism coordinator, John Negroponte, then U.S. ambassador in Honduras (later appointed as the first Director of National Intelligence, essentially counterterrorism czar, without eliciting a murmur), they should have done the same. Cuba would have been justified in acting similarly, had the Castro government been able to lay hands on the Kennedy brothers. There is no need to bring up what their victims should have done to Henry Kissinger, Ronald Reagan, and other leading terrorist commanders, whose exploits leave al-Qaeda in the dust, and who doubtless had ample information that could have prevented further "ticking bomb" attacks.
Such considerations never seem to arise in public discussion.
There is, to be sure, a response: our terrorism, even if surely terrorism, is benign, deriving as it does from the city on the hill.
Perhaps culpability would be greater, by prevailing moral standards, if it were discovered that Bush administration torture had cost American lives. That is, in fact, the conclusion drawn by Major Matthew Alexander [a pseudonym], one of the most seasoned U.S. interrogators in Iraq, who elicited "the information that led to the US military being able to locate Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the head of al-Qa'ida in Iraq," correspondent Patrick Cockburn reports.
Alexander expresses only contempt for the Bush administration's harsh interrogation methods: "The use of torture by the U.S.," he believes, not only elicits no useful information but "has proved so counter-productive that it may have led to the death of as many U.S. soldiers as civilians killed in 9/11." From hundreds of interrogations, Alexander discovered that foreign fighters came to Iraq in reaction to the abuses at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, and that they and their domestic allies turned to suicide bombing and other terrorist acts for the same reasons.
There is also mounting evidence that the torture methods Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld encouraged created terrorists. One carefully studied case is that of Abdallah al-Ajmi, who was locked up in Guantanamo on the charge of "engaging in two or three fire fights with the Northern Alliance." He ended up in Afghanistan after having failed to reach Chechnya to fight against the Russians.
After four years of brutal treatment in Guantanamo, he was returned to Kuwait. He later found his way to Iraq and, in March 2008, drove a bomb-laden truck into an Iraqi military compound, killing himself and 13 soldiers -- "the single most heinous act of violence committed by a former Guantanamo detainee," according to the Washington Post, and according to his lawyer, the direct result of his abusive imprisonment.
All much as a reasonable person would expect.
Unexceptional Americans
Another standard pretext for torture is the context: the "war on terror" that Bush declared after 9/11. A crime that rendered traditional international law "quaint" and "obsolete" -- so George W. Bush was advised by his legal counsel Alberto Gonzales, later appointed Attorney General. The doctrine has been widely reiterated in one form or another in commentary and analysis.
The 9/11 attack was doubtless unique in many respects. One is where the guns were pointing: typically it is in the opposite direction. In fact, it was the first attack of any consequence on the national territory of the United States since the British burned down Washington in 1814.
Another unique feature was the scale of terror perpetrated by a non-state actor.
Horrifying as it was, however, it could have been worse. Suppose that the perpetrators had bombed the White House, killed the president, and established a vicious military dictatorship that killed 50,000 to 100,000 people and tortured 700,000, set up a huge international terror center that carried out assassinations and helped impose comparable military dictatorships elsewhere, and implemented economic doctrines that so radically dismantled the economy that the state had to virtually take it over a few years later.
That would indeed have been far worse than September 11, 2001. And it happened in Salvador Allende's Chile in what Latin Americans often call "the first 9/11" in 1973. (The numbers above were changed to per-capita U.S. equivalents, a realistic way of measuring crimes.) Responsibility for the military coup against Allende can be traced straight back to Washington. Accordingly, the otherwise quite appropriate analogy is out of consciousness here in the U.S., while the facts are consigned to the "abuse of reality" that the naïve call "history."
It should also be recalled that Bush did not declare the "war on terror," he re-declared it. Twenty years earlier, President Reagan's administration came into office declaring that a centerpiece of its foreign policy would be a war on terror, "the plague of the modern age" and "a return to barbarism in our time" -- to sample the fevered rhetoric of the day.
That first U.S. war on terror has also been deleted from historical consciousness, because the outcome cannot readily be incorporated into the canon: hundreds of thousands slaughtered in the ruined countries of Central America and many more elsewhere, among them an estimated 1.5 million dead in the terrorist wars sponsored in neighboring countries by Reagan's favored ally, apartheid South Africa, which had to defend itself from Nelson Mandela's African National Congress (ANC), one of the world's "more notorious terrorist groups," as Washington determined in 1988. In fairness, it should be added that, 20 years later, Congress voted to remove the ANC from the list of terrorist organizations, so that Mandela is now, at last, able to enter the U.S. without obtaining a waiver from the government.
The reigning doctrine of the country is sometimes called "American exceptionalism." It is nothing of the sort. It is probably close to a universal habit among imperial powers. France was hailing its "civilizing mission" in its colonies, while the French Minister of War called for "exterminating the indigenous population" of Algeria. Britain's nobility was a "novelty in the world," John Stuart Mill declared, while urging that this angelic power delay no longer in completing its liberation of India.
Similarly, there is no reason to doubt the sincerity of Japanese militarists in the 1930s, who were bringing an "earthly paradise" to China under benign Japanese tutelage, as they carried out the rape of Nanking and their "burn all, loot all, kill all" campaigns in rural North China. History is replete with similar glorious episodes.
As long as such "exceptionalist" theses remain firmly implanted, however, the occasional revelations of the "abuse of history" often backfire, serving only to efface terrible crimes. The My Lai massacre was a mere footnote to the vastly greater atrocities of the post-Tet pacification programs, ignored while indignation in this country was largely focused on this single crime.
Watergate was doubtless criminal, but the furor over it displaced incomparably worse crimes at home and abroad, including the FBI-organized assassination of black organizer Fred Hampton as part of the infamous COINTELPRO repression, or the bombing of Cambodia, to mention just two egregious examples. Torture is hideous enough; the invasion of Iraq was a far worse crime. Quite commonly, selective atrocities have this function.
Historical amnesia is a dangerous phenomenon, not only because it undermines moral and intellectual integrity, but also because it lays the groundwork for crimes that still lie ahead.
Comments
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303 Comments so far
Show AllThomas More, I can understand an unwillingness to enter these crocodile infested waters, but I would like to know what you mean by real historical amnesia?
Native Son, your comment is not helpful for a serious discussion of differing viewpoints. I favor respecting differences and being able to hear where people are coming from as being far more constructive.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
Tommy More, the obscure! Does he think he is Heraclitus or something?
As if you've read Chomsky!!! Chomsky has ALWAYS made sense and done his homework. Some of us have read him and understand that while he has his own blind spots like everybody, he does great research and makes lots of sense.
Chomsky and people of his ilk particularly try to bring out facts and analysis that scumbags like Bush, Cheney, Dumsfeld, try to hide with the collusion of the media, etc.
It's not 'amnesia' that they fight; it's the willful, systematic distortion and suppression of reality, of the truth, that they struggle to correct.
Why don't you just listen to Limbaugh and forget this business of pretending you have something other to say the usual garbage pushed by the likes of Bush and Cheney.
I hate to admit Noam is on the right track.
We need to thank Bush in one way. He did nothing more than take the 'Velvet Glove' off the 'Iron Fist' of US Capitalistic foreign policy. The velvet glove has covered all the acts Noam discusses. Bush(Cheney) and his minions literally said = 'Tough! this is what we do because we can'. They saw nothing wrong because the US(read Capitalist Empire) has been carrying out such acts throughout its history.
noam your joshing right?the wonderful us of a would never do those things! just kidding.
can't wait to see you 6/12 in nyc. sure there will be more discussion on this topic then.
Thank you Noam, for pulling together a historical perspective that casts aside the veneer of exceptionalism and lets people see the chronic misbehavior of this nation. Another source for clearer perspective is Steven Kinzer's "Overthrow" which recounts the many times US corporate interests influenced the US government (is there a separation?) to overthrow an existing government; a circumstance which invariably lead to a worsened life for the people of that country. Even without an overthrow the US will disrupt the political evolution of a nation, usually by decapitating the political Left. Iraq in the 60's,is but one example).
Often Chomsky is criticized for being "simplistic". Well, clear eyed and unfettered is what comes to my mind. The only way this US exceptionalism myth will change is if more people understand this history, and demand a change.
v.purto
Re: Often Chomsky is criticized for being "simplistic". Well, clear eyed and unfettered is what comes to my mind.
That is the point: truth is simple. True North is North straigtforeward.
Every time you see complex explanations, watch your vollet! The whole of geometry or physics is described by few "simplistic" postulates. Humanity is no more complex than universe if we have wisdom to see through ripples of our outsized ego.
Excellent point. The solution is no secret. Every major religion tells us what will work in the long term. I'd like to be a member of such a community.
It should be obvious that the answers could not possibly more complex than the universe of which it is a part. Maybe the right questions are not being asked.
I've been saying the same things (in far less detail and with far less eloquence than Mr. Chomsky) since we've been discussing the issue of torture as it relates to the current "war on terror". We've been involved in torture for decades, either through training institutions like the SOA or through material support for regimes that torture their citizens. Occasionally an article like this will pop up to place the actions of the Bush administration in the proper historical light. However it seems that in these discussions one could come away with the impression that Bush/Cheney and co. invented these torture techniques. Mr. Chomsky goes a few steps farther to show how torture has been part of our policy since before George Washington was even born and how other empires have acted no differently i.e. how truly UNexceptional the U.S. is.
Since the beginning of time, this violence has been about taking the possessions of others. Whether native peoples or colonies, whether pagans or Jews, whether women or people of color ... exploitation is the way of Crusaders and capitalists.
Hand in hand with organized patriarchal religion . . .
Capitalism is a "King-of-the-Hill" system intended to move
the wealth and resources of a nation from the many to the few.
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
So we know the truth, we just choose to ignore it.
Or, we know the truth but don't know what the hell to do about it.
And the solution is actually the simplest thing: We each do what we can to create a solution. It's in each of our hands.
not since "the beginning of time", since the beginning of dominator societies, some 6,000 years ago, prior to patriarchal organized religions. They just slotted themselves into the prevailing dominator paradigm.
ancient archeological sites do not turn up weapons.
it is good to see that someone else remembers about the native population of the "North American" continent ...
the United States of America was founded on genocide and ethnic cleansing ...
but like someone else has commented, it has always been so everywhere ... it is what the more basic form of human being has always done (i wasn't there of course, but it seems that way if history is even partially correctly reported) ...
i'm just glad i don't treat people like that ... it doesn't mean that one doesn't still have to participate of course ...
I tend to ascribe to the notion that political ideas like this are useful to the extent that they lead to practical action - otherwise they are just parlor chat.
Of course, historically, other nations commited genocide and imperial opression, but the practical effect if this idea is inaction - "it's universal, human nature -so ther's nothing we can do about it except not do it as individuals".
So, I see nothing wrong with placing the burden of blame global Imperialism on the United States, because at this current time, they are by far the greatest precipitator of violence, economic and environmental injustice in the world, and saying it, loudly, it will lead to focused action on the matter.
Dear finallyawake-
Please stop telling the lie that it's been "genocide and ethnic cleansing..." "always...everywhere". And "it is what the more basic form of human being has always done."
How often must we have this discussion? To carry on with the Hobbesian "Nasty brutish and short" myth.
If you really want to recognize the natives of this continent, please stop telling the story about them from the dominant culture paradigm.
Time and time again I read this type of comment here on common dreams. Is this really a progressive view point? How often do we read here in a supposed progressive thinking community that it's human nature to kill each other or to take from each other? Jaysis. This is an old story.
Seriously. Pay attention to how often folks keep saying this stuff. It completely dishonors those who came before civilization, empire, etc.It completely dishonors those who knew how to live in the world without destroying the planet.
This may be my personal axe to grind. True. But seriously, to say all those horrors are human nature is completely wrong.
Where is this information coming from? It's so thick. Almost everyone I know believes it. And it's dead wrong.
"it has always been so everywhere ..." What a load of BS.
Someone said "sonce the beginning of time"? Jaysis.
Fooksake people! Think progressive if yis wannna claim that label. Stop telling stories that have benn told for centuries.
Thanks.
-Glen
Glen May 6:36 Actually you are both correct.
First take a historical look at every region in the world; a vast area is occupied by people who violently and fraudulently displaced the original inhabitants.
Western Hemisphere ----- Maybe 5% landmass and population of natives.
Austrailia, Japan maybe the same.
Europe was it mostly Celts originally?
Africa and China I believe are a majority of Native Peoples.
India is only remnant originals ( on the out lying Islands). If I am wrong it is half Native ( Dravidians)
Asia hard to untangle that one but most Natives displaced or eliminated.
So there is a reoccurence of invaders eliminating and destroying Native populations.
But on the other hand that does not prove or even indicate that man is by nature a brute. It just says some societys of Men mostly have been brutish to say the least.
yes but....
History only represents a tiny fraction of human existence.
Of course we dismiss hundreds of thousands of years of our existence when we only recognize the "historical look".
Not only do we dismiss all of those humans who would, in any basic math course, represent the greater record of human nature than do we "civilized" folks, but we, in so doing, endorse the dominant cultural lens that suggests that we are the only humans worth considering.
That last sentiment is very similar to the exceptionalism that Chomsky is talking about. It's the idea that civilized humans are the entire point of all existence. Therefore, any who are not like us "need our help" so to speak.
And that story only furthers the idea that we are more deserving than others.
Again, no mention of the natural world in Chomsky so I submit that he is a Human exceptionalist. Or in common parlance - anthropocentrist.
We are the shining species on the hill.... or so we think.
Thanks.
-Glen
Because humans are most closely related to the Bonobo apes and not Chimpanzees (two separate branches) Glen is quite right that violence is not a natural human aspect in the Hobbesian tradition, but a learnt behaviour, much like tool usage in the Chimpanzee troupes (ie: keep saying that humans are inherently violent and they will be). If we could embrace our Bonobo side, we wouldn't need to use torture or terrorism. In fact, we would seldom have arguments since sex is how Bonobos maintain peace.
I have read that "societies" cannot thrive without cooperation from its members... it takes many talents to build a society. War disrupts and corrupts and the perpetrators often win ... for a while.
Take a look at the societies that now exist in our world, at this time, not 50, not 100, not 1000, not 2000 years ago... but now at this time in our era.
Which societies are these? Scandanavia? the Netherlands (closing their prisons for lack of guests, or inmates)...
Are these countries pacifist, are they socialist? Whatever socialism really is... and it's not communism at all. Let's straighten that out.
Humans have big brains, we all agree... we can build wonderful things, gadgets... our brains should now be accustomed to seeking harmonious ways of interacting and living and respecting. We are not above the animal world in many ways.... animals don't make war for the sake of making war... maybe for eating territory... but not war just to show off their big muscles (guns).
People claim to be Christians... and we've just seen the exodus of a big Christian from the White House.... don't bother to practice Christianity... they just mouth it... they use it as a shield to deflect our thoughts from their true actions... which are truly heinous and non-humanitarian...
Whatever pillage, rape, destruction that have gone on in the past should stay in the past... it is the wrong way, and because it existed is no reason to excuse today's actions of pillage, rape and destruction.
Just because is has been is no excuse for it to continue...
Frantz Fanon wrote on his battle in Algiers that the occupiers were only overcome by over-spending themselves into bankruptcy. It appears we are a staunch war-based economy with the Pentagon refusing to release its grip on the people of this country. An American bankruptcy would bring us destiiute peace which we deserve.
Fanon may be somewhat applicable, but a bit of Bourdieu, Wallerstein and Raulston Saul in the mix would spice it up somewhat.
Chomsky does go a little too far here:
Similarly, there is no reason to doubt the sincerity of Japanese militarists in the 1930s, who were bringing an "earthly paradise" to China under benign Japanese tutelage, as they carried out the rape of Nanking and their "burn all, loot all, kill all" campaigns in rural North China.
I know this is done tongue-in-cheek by Chomsky, but he does not need to go to this extreme, as I believe it weakens his very valid point. The Japanese were clearly practicing genocide in parts of China to create "lebensraum" (to use a familiar term) for Japanese people. They may have at times produced sugary propaganda for Chinese consumption to reduce resistance, but in their communications with each other they never pretended that they were engaged in any humanitarian mission. Also, the "Rape of Nanking" is really not the appropriate way to reference what happened there. My wife grew up in Nanjing, and some of her relatives were victims, and there people talk of the "Nanjing Massacre." Over 400,000 unarmed men, women, and children were massacred by the Japanese to create "lebensraum" there in a clearly genocidal campaign. I wonder how Jewish people would react to relabeling the Holocaust as "The Rape of the Jews"?
-they never pretended that they were engaged in any humanitarian mission
Like the Americans under Bush/Obama, they characterized their attacks as defensive. In Japan's case here, they were comming to the rescue of a Japanese owned railway that was suspiciously dynamited in Manchuria.
The Japanese leader, like Bush, also declared that international law protections would no longer apply to captured soldiers or civilians.
-Rape of Nanking
That was the term used at the time in sensational news reports, and there were no fewer rapes then, by Japanese soldiers, than there are now, by American soldiers.
I suppose it is a matter of degree, but I do not believe that the Japanese propaganda was ever understood by many Japanese as the real reason the Japanese invaded Manchuria, but was more like the German reports in 1939 regarding the necessity of defending Germany from attacking Poles (way beyond straining credulity). It was for Chinese and international consumption, unlike the US propaganda which has been as much for US consumption as it has been for foreign.
Though I am aware that the Japanese soldiers had a well-deserved reputation as rapists, the point I was making is that "The Rape of Nanking" was of a different degree of horror, more akin to that of the Holocaust, as it involved the systematic murder of several hundred thousand people in an attempt at genocide to provide room for the Japanese to live there.
A majority of the citizens of this country no longer care whether the United States has any ideals or not. The executuve branch decides on the plot outline, then the MSM writes the short, trite script and sells it to the bored, frightened public.
Brother you hit the nail on the head. The only hope I see is that the younger generation is growing up 1)gender/color/religion blind (for the most part) and 2) informed, or at least not afraid of getting informed, i.e. using the internet/non-MSM.
May I add bored frightened cooperative public
"… executive branch decides on the plot outline" ?
Like 3' x 7'
… and 6' deep ?
Namaste
"Small wonder that President Obama advises us to look forward, not backward -- a convenient doctrine for those who hold the clubs. Those who are beaten by them tend to see the world differently, much to our annoyance."
Some, including the President, have strained the neck to such an extent 'looking forward' that it has arched well back of the body and either is stuck in the sand to the rearward or up their posterior.
Good one!
An excellent historical summary of our many imperialist atrocities. That said, I maintain hope that America will one day live up to its potential as land of the free, home of the brave, upholder of justice. The late 40's and early 50's gave us a brief glimpse of that potential when socialist policies were implemented and trade unions became strong. With increasing ferocity, I see our corporate fascist task masters attacking these gains and leaving them in the dust.
It is my hope that it is one step backwards and two steps forward. More so than ever, we must demand transparent democratic government. Without it, these imperialistic forces will continue to run rampant within our borders and continue to wreak havoc on the lives of millions people the world over.
professor chomsky has outlined briefly some of the crimes of imperial america - there are many more - have you got a decade
finally hearing reagan called the torturing prick that he was is refreshing
as richard cook has fleshed out in his book about the challenger and its explosion in flight - reagan was personally responsible for that mess as well
i guess being senile in office had its awkward moments
brielfy put - obama is another nwo shill/puppet whose laser like focus is to keep the war machine primed, wall street flush with cash and the sheeple clinging to the empty promise of change
forever suckers each desparate wish hangs on the next
the good professor invokes 9/11 - which he doesn't believe to be an act of the nwo/controllers - in other words a fals flag
how can one man draw up the legacy of ruthless murder and then be unable to connect the 9/11 dots
considering the effect of the false flag event on foreign policy how can there be any doubt that the controllers were behind this event
the mountain of evidence remains:
1. none of the flights of 9/11 were on the ntsb database
2. none of them were de-commissioned for years
3. no one can place any of these 19 boys on anyof the planes
4. at least 8 of the alledged highjackers arer still alive and have been on the BBC to declare themselves to be "still breathing"
5. homeland security and the patriot act were written before 9/11
6. sept 10, 2001 rumsfeld held a press conference to state the pentagon had lost or misplaced 3 trillion dollars - never heard from again
7. ironically it was the date of the jackson 5 reunion
8. there were no planes on sept 11, 2001 - they appeared in the corporate media coverage
9. planes don't knock down steel buildings - let alone 2 planes knocking down 7 buildings
10. the trillion dollar air defense decides to take a 90 minute shit at the same moment 19 fictional saudi bopys - who can't fly planes - decide to undo the nation with a couple of box cutters
11. within 10 minutes of going on the air every station had talking heads pissing on about osl - whom no one had ever heard from before that day
12. there was never an investigation into 9/11
13. to this day - under penalty of firing and forfeiture of pensions, the nypd and nyfd are under a total ban form talking about that day
move along folks.....nothing to see here...nothing out of the usual....move along
ps. god love you prof chomsky - live long and prosper
Chomsky, Goodman, Zinn, Palast et al....9/11 gatekeepers....I can see no other reason they avoid THE most important issue.....can you?? When NYC votes for a new investigation, the truth of 9/11 will soon no longer be avoidable...will we hear many Mea Culpas? Doubtful. They will stay in their "comfort zones".
I have respect for Chomsky, but his avoidance of this most important issue goes to his lack of integrity. He may have gained the world through his intellect, but his soul must be starving.
Yes, I could understand why they would avoid speaking publicly about 9..11 (see my post below)
And, sure, maybe Chomsky's soul is starving by avoiding the issue. But, in his mind it is probably better than being destroyed or killed by the very machine that created (or allowed) 9..11 to happen.
And, yes, that leaves the little nothings of the world to call him a moral coward and such. I, being part of the little nothings of the world, can scream all day long, and as loud as I want about the obvious absurdities of the 9...11 cover-up, and the power players won't give two shits because they have already won by convincing the majority that their story is true and that anybody questioning their story is a LOON.
But, Chomsky, prominent figure, speaking out... now that would be a problem for the power players and they would find a way to silence him. And maybe that is something Chomsky doesn't want to deal with. Am I going to call him a moral coward because of that? Nope.
We all make our own decisions. "Moral coward" is your interpretation. I said his soul was starving....
I guess I should have asked you to elaborate on what your definition of a "9/11 gatekeeper" means.
------------------------------
Standard definition of gatekeeper:
1. guard at gate: a supervisor or guard who tends a gate
2. access controller: a person or group that controls access to somebody or something
------------------------------
I am reading into it as Chomsky is "guarding" the gate, or "controlling access" to the 9/11 cover-up.
If that is so, then that could imply that Chomsky is paid, by whomever, to guard and not allow the people to see the evidence of a cover-up. A Bilderberger, CIA, Zionist, banker operative? Is this what you are implying, that Chomsky is a paid intellectual to guard the cover-up of 9...11?
Or, are you implying that Chomsky is merely a "unintentional" gatekeeper because of his lack of integrity to speak out about the cover-up?
Just curious...
markpaddles May 19th, 2009 5:14 pm................I cannot speak to his intentions....only his silence which is quite deafening...as is Amy's, Zinn's and Palast's...among many others.
I also have a lot of respect for Noam. But why is he so dismissive of alternatives to the "Official Conspiracy Theory"?
Why Left gatekeepers? Here are my theories:
1) The “Blowback” theory popularized by the book series of the same name by Chalmers Johnson. 9/11 just confirms it. Adherents to the Blowback theory need look no further.
2) The “your wasting your time with conspiracies, when you should be looking at the system,” or conspiracy theories vs. analysis of institutional structures. Now this is a serious consideration for Truthers, many of who were unaware of US’s dark history before 9/11. Far more people have been killed in Iraq or Afghanistan than were killed on 9/11 and ditto for Central America, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc. etc. etc. I recognize that 9/11 was the trigger for our most recent Imperial wars, but the “structural” argument has a lot more evidence than 9/11 and it’s far more deadly. 9/11 Truthers should always acknowledge the institutionalized violence of Imperialist Capitalism - going all the way back. However, conspiracies and institutional violence are not mutually exclusive. In fact they are mutually supporting. Institutionalized racism and the activities of the KKK in the Antebellum South is just one example.
3) Credibility theory: Chomsky et al, have a lot of “cross over” credibility, they are radicals, but radicals that can sometimes crossover into a liberal, conservative Dem or moderate Republican readership. Lots of people, who regularly read Thomas Friedman, for example, might occasionally read Chomsky, Zinn or Klien. Admitting that the Truthers have a case hurts their crossover appeal, the range of their influence and certainly book sales. And, I don’t think that by acknowledging the problems of the Official Story there is much for Chomsky to gain. Note that Micheal Parenti does think that the 9/11 Truthers have a case, but alas, he’s just a Radical theorist, that is, no crossover appeal.
4) The wasted effort theory: most recently re-articulated by Howard Zinn in a Paul Jay interview. This is the idea is that there are only a small number of activists, and that their efforts should not be wasted on projects like 9/11 which will go nowhere. They should be working to end our current wars/occupations etc. This argument seems good on the surface, but hey, can’t we walk and chew gum at the same time? This idea is intellectually weak for one, and Zinn, et al should not be patronizing us about getting tuckered out. The truth should matter, period.
5) And, lastly, these guys know each other. They’re friends. Don’t you think that they talk? My guess is that they have talked about 9/11 and agreed not to go there in public discussions. Is that another conspiracy theory?
Interesting comment.
If you actually read my "theories" (tongue-in-cheek), they are not in the least bit "dark". As for Chomsky, I have massive respect for him and his works. That doesn't mean I agree with him on everything, nor, do I think would he want me to. If you look closely on Chomsky's comments about 9/11, you'll find, and he himself admits, that he has never even looked at the evidence (presented by David Ray Griffin (another distinguished scholar until he took up 9/11) and other of the main researchers)). Now, this contradicts Chomsky's standard intellectual behavior. With the exception of 9/11, Chomsky has an amazingly consistent pattern of providing "inconvenient truths" about US foreign policy and other issues based on exhaustive amounts of meticulously documented research. That's why right wing and even many mainstream apologists hate his guts. He can make these heretical "anti-American" claims challenging US benevolence because he's done his homework and he's right. Because of this, few have Chomsky's credibility.
That's what makes his views on 9/11 so strange. He hasn't done the research, and he dismisses even the most legitimate issues raised by skeptics of the "Official Story", out of hand. Even Howard Zinn will say that the Official Story is probably false. Had Chomsky read only Griffin's work and debunked the claims as convincing as Chomsky does on other issues, that would be great, but he hasn't. All the 9/11 Truthers are really after is a REAL investigation, not the politicized hatched job done by the Bush administration. Why should that be such a threat?
You have pointed out Chomsky's comments on 9/11 on You Tube. I find them unconvincing.
On other issues I find him very convincing. Just because one is right about many things doesn't mean that they are right about everything.
Yohocoma:
In Chomsky's video (YouTube) dismissing 9/11 skeptics, Chomsky provides no evidence. In fact his strongest argument is that an 9/11 "inside job" is "extremely unlikely".
With respect, it doesn't sound to me like you know much about David Ray Griffin's work. If you did, then you would know what the "legitimate" issues were. I mention him because he is the best known of the SERIOUS researchers on 9/11. I'll admit there are some wacky ideas out there, but that does not mean they all are.
Check out this YouTube video that has both Chomsky and Griffin addressing the same issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKB52zNILm0&feature=related
Could you please go over any evidence or reasoned arguments you might actually have to counter 9-11 truthers. So far, I haven't seen anything but the usual lame accusations about "conspiracy theorists". I usually try to avoid speculating on peoples' motivations. I'm familiar with your posts over the last many months, and believe it is you, not David Ray Griffin, who is nefarious--and very possibly a Pentagon psychop--or Mossad for that matter.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting … for any response.
It appears that YoHo's Modus operandi is to use an errant characterization to debate against, instead of dealing with real people in this world, as that allows him to think far less and to better polish up his hubris.
Namaste
You're degenerating into silliness.
ma g, I have my own doubts about 9/11, but I'm confused about your points 1, 2 and 8. And what is osl?
What is clear to me is that even if the controllers weren't behind it (which they might have been) they were waiting for it to take advantage of the opportunity. And did they ever.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
ntsb - national transportation safety board - it is illegal to fly ANY plane - let alone a commercial airliner in the us without being on the ntsb database - in case something goes wrong - none of these planes were listed - therefore they did not exist
when a plane is decommissioned - as it would be in the event of a crash - they need to be offically decommissioned - none of these planes were - the assumption then would be that they are still intact
the reality is they never existed and the non-removal from the database was an omission - small overlooked detail
these issues are related to safety and insurance and things like that
finally osl = osama bin laden - cia "asset" from his recruitemnt in saudi arabia for the jihad in afghanistan against the russianns - to this very day - although the brits said they killed him in bora bora in 2001
recently the prime minister of pakistan stated they left osl alone becasue they knew he was an american "asset"
hope this helps
i'll have to do point 8 later - no time right now - its a big point
So many of your points are well taken, eg. the pre-writing of the Patriot Act. And I find it highly plausible that the Bush admin. allowed the events to occur with foreknowledge (and I could go one step further to complicity) in order to get them where they wanted to be. But when 9/11 theorists drift into things like point 8, there were no planes in a city with millions of eye witnesses, you discredit the plausible with the implausible. I, like many others, don't want to be linked with views that are irrational, and that slows down or stops any serious inquiry into the plausible scenarios which are every bit as bad.
agingpacifist May 19th, 2009 1:52 pm................Have you ever researched how many people actually saw those planes in reality and not on tape or TV? And where are the 80 some odd videos of the plane hitting the Pentagon that the FBI refuse to release?...other than the ONE that shows absolutely nothing. Do you know how many eyewitnesses there are that have attested to the fact that explosions were heard in all the towers and at the Pentagon BEFORE the planes supposedly hit...and in the case of the towers, backed up by seismographic proof. Have you heard the interview with the cab-driver whose cab was supposedly hit by the light polls that were downed as the plane approached the Pentagon...which according to radar altitude reports would have been physically impossible?
It takes research and reading to find the truth beyond the official story.....something Chomsky and Zinn have done all their lives in regard to "official history". Problem is, in this case they have avoided that research...but it's all out there...in black and white and color...as documented as anything they have presented as their "alternative history" in volumes of their books.
I recommend ae911truth.org.....and there are so many more if you care to do the research.