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A Case For Economic Democracy
Rather than continuing to pay off the very people who created this financial crisis, it's time to bite the bullet and start building an economic democracy featuring public banks and mutual funded holding companies
Today we are caught in a global economic crash and depression, a calamity affecting every nation connected to the global economy, especially poor nations lacking economic reserves. But this crisis also puts into play new possibilities for a democratic surge, perhaps toward economic democracy.
From the perspective of Economics 101, every bubble mania is basically alike, but from the beginning, this one has been harder to swallow, because it started with people who were just trying to buy a house of their own, who usually had no concept of predatory lending, and who had no say in the securitization boondoggle that spliced up various components of risk to trade them separately.
It seemed a blessing to get a low-rate mortgage. It was a mystery how the banks did it, but this was their business; we trusted they knew what they were doing. Our banks resold the mortgages to aggregators who bunched them up with thousands of other subprime mortgages, chopped the package into pieces and sold them as corporate bonds to parties looking for extra yield. Our mortgage payments paid for the interest on the bonds.
For twenty years securitizations and derivatives were great at concocting extra yield and allowing the banks to hide their debt. Broadly speaking, a derivative is any contract that derives its value from another underlying asset. More narrowly and pertinently, it's an instrument that allows investors to speculate on the future price of something without having to buy it.
The words that are used for this business-securitization, insurance, diversifying risk-sound reassuring, but they mask that the business is pure high-leveraged speculation and gambling. Credit-default swaps are private contracts in a completely unregulated market that allow investors to bet on whether a borrower will default. Ten years ago that market was $150 billion; today it's $62 trillion, and it's at the heart of the meltdown. Credit default sellers are not required to set aside reserves to pay off claims, and in 2000 Congress exempted them from state gaming laws. AIG's derivatives unit was a huge casino, selling phantom insurance with hardly any backing, for which we now have to pay. The tally for the past six months: four bailouts, $160 billion, some very hard-to-take bonus payments, and no bottom in sight for a sinkhole of toxic debt exceeding $1 trillion.
Derivatives created dangerous incentives for false accounting and made it extremely difficult to ascertain a firm's true exposure. They generated huge amounts of leverage and were developed with virtually no consideration of their broad economic consequences.
So many plugged-in players rode this financial lunacy for all it was worth, caught in the terribly real pressure of the market to produce constant short-term gains. Speculators gamed the system and regulators looked the other way. Mortgage brokers sold bad mortgages; bond bundlers packaged the loans into securities; rating agencies gave inflated bond ratings to the loans; corporate executives put the bonds on their balance sheets; and all made fortunes off toxic products they had no business creating or passing off.
The chief rating agencies, Moody's and Standard & Poor's, were supposed to expose financial risk. Instead, paid by the very issuers of the bonds they rated, they hung triple-A ratings on rubbish. There was so much money to be made that firms couldn't bear to leave it aside for competitors to grab. The banks got leveraged up to 50-to-1 (that's where Bear Stearns was at the end) and kept piling on debt. The mania for extra yield fed on itself, blowing away business ethics and common sense.
Today we are staring into an economic abyss, a global deflationary spiral. Deflation, once started, has a terrible tendency to feed on itself. Income falls in a recession, which makes debt harder to bear, which discourages investment, which depresses the economy further, which leads to more deflation. To have any chance of breaking the deflationary spiral, the Obama administration has to solve the bank problem and dispose of the toxic debt.
One option is Henry Paulson's original plan, "cash for trash," this time with more public accountability. Another is to ramp up the insurance approach, "ring-fencing" bad assets by providing federal guarantees against losses. But these are more-of-the-same options that coddle the banks and don't solve the valuation problem-that no one trusts anyone else's balance sheet. The banks are holding at least $2 trillion of toxic debt. For the past six months, the banking system has been paralyzed because the big private equity firms and hedge funds are refusing to pay more than thirty cents on the dollar for the mortgage bundles and the banks can't stay in business if they book such huge losses on their holdings. In the meantime the banks are holding out for at least sixty cents and pleading for more relief.
The Latest Bailout Fad: Creating Bad Banks
The third option, the "bad bank" model, creates transitional banks to soak up bad debt. Here the risk of getting prices wrong is even greater, assuming that assets are valued immediately. If the government overpays for toxic securities, taxpayers are cheated; if it doesn't overpay and the banks take mark-to-market prices, many are sure to fail. Some advocates of the bad bank strategy say the government could stall on the price issue, waiting until values rise, but FDIC chair Sheila Bair says no, banking is not alchemy: assets can't be floated into the ether.
Bair and Timothy Geithner have settled on an aggregator bank model that blends the original Paulson plan with some elements of the bad bank topped off with an auction scheme to find private buyers for the toxic debt. Geithner wants the government to create a $2 trillion public-private investment fund that subsidizes up to 95 percent of deals partnered with hedge funds and private equity firms to buy up the bad assets of the zombie banks. The private funds will end up owning the assets; the FDIC will do most of the partnering work; and the Treasury will hire four or five investment management firms.
Since this is apparently what we're going to do, I certainly hope it works. But this plan is by far the most cumbersome and least transparent strategy of all. It coddles the banks. It is based on the dubious hope of finding enough private buyers for rotten goods. It assumes that private fund managers have been wrong thus far about the real value of the mortgage bundles. It offers a taxpayer guarantee to investors to ensure they won't lose money if they get in. And it depends on convincing taxpayers to pony up another $2 trillion for that purpose. Essentially, this is a scheme to pay fantastic bribes to private investors to buy the bad assets for more than they're worth.
Here's A Better Idea: Let's Create Good Banks!
I am for biting the bullet now. It's obscene to keep paying off the very people who created this disaster. It's better to take control of the situation now than to dither for another nine or ten months while we lose 600,000 jobs per month. At some point moral fairness and accountability have to enter this picture. We should nationalize the zombie banks, transfer the bad assets to a reincarnation of the 1980s Resolution Trust Corporation, and sell off the sellable parts to new owners.
Nationalization is cleaner and more transparent than the alternatives. It takes hold of the valuation problem by finding the bottom. It cuts off the gusher of taxpayer gifts to managers and shareholders. It offers taxpayers a way of getting some of their money back. It puts an end to mergers between zombie banks, which create more zombie banks that are too big to fail.
Most importantly to me, an aggressive nationalization strategy would put into play the possibility of something more creative and constructive: establishing publicly funded venture capital banks. If we can seriously talk about creating bad banks or aggregator banks, we ought to be able to talk about creating publicly owned good banks to do good things. Public banks could finance start-ups in green technology that are currently languishing and provide financing for cooperatives spurned by traditional banks. The public banks could be financed by an economic stimulus package, or by claiming the good assets of banks seized by the government, or both.
We must push Obama for him to create anything like that, as he is surrounded by centrist corporate establishment types eager to placate Wall Street and averse to wiping out shareholders. We must also push him to stick to a social investment strategy throughout his presidency, instead of backing off from it as Franklin Roosevelt did.
A public bank that supports green technology and cooperatives would be a major breakthrough for economic democracy in this country. Economic democracy is about democratizing power and creating environmentally sustainable economies. In its full-orbed version, it features mixed forms of worker, community, and mutual fund or public bank enterprises. I am not suggesting that factors of production trump everything else. Any social justice politics worthy of the name requires a feminist, interracial, multicultural, ecological, and anti-imperial consciousness that privileges liberationist and environmental issues.
But no serious challenge to existing relations of power can ignore the factors of production. Economic justice is never dispensable. Those who control the terms, amounts, and direction of credit play a huge role in determining the kind of society that everybody else lives in. We're getting a dramatic demonstration of that today. The question of who controls the process of investment is enormously important. Gains toward social and economic democracy are needed today for the same reason that political democracy is necessary: to restrain the abuse of unequal power.
Pros and Cons of Economic Democracy
Economic democracy, like political democracy, is messy and time-consuming. Democratically controlled capital is less mobile than corporate capital, and the return to democratically controlled capital tends to be lower than in corporations, because worker-controlled enterprises are more committed to keeping low-return firms in operation. Producer cooperatives are often too slow, small, and humane to compete with corporations, and they require cooperative habits and values that cut against the grain of American individualism. In the United States, any strategy to break down concentrated economic power by expanding the cooperative sector confronts difficult trade-offs, political opposition, and cultural barriers.
But economic democracy also has pragmatic considerations in its favor. Economic losses caused by worker participation can be offset by gains in productivity made possible by it. People often work harder and more efficiently when they have a stake in the company. Worker ownership is a key option for communities threatened by runaway plants and deindustrialization. Experiments with various kinds of worker ownership increased dramatically in the 1990s, aided by a growing network of policy experts, and some unions began to bargain for worker ownership, worker control over pension funds, and worker management rights. These developments have the potential to become the building blocks of a serious movement for economic democracy.
Today there are approximately 12,000 worker-owned firms in the United States, including large enterprises such as Republic Engineered Steels, Publix Supermarkets, and Northwestern Steel and Wire. Most employee ownership plans offer shares without voting rights; most assure that employees will be kept in a minority ownership position; few provide educational opportunities to help worker/owners develop management skills; and virtually none offer programs to build solidarity or help worker/owners forge links with other cooperative enterprises or raise awareness of economic democracy issues. Worker ownership without democratic control is a nominal version of economic democracy, thwarting the real thing, and American unions have a generally dismal record in this area, reinforcing the shortcomings.
With all its limitations, however, worker ownership is a viable option, and a necessary one. The Mondragon network in Spain is spectacularly successful; in the United States, several thousand firms have converted to employee ownership, thousands of others have been launched with worker-ownership plans, and approximately 1,000 companies in the United States are fully worker-controlled.
It Begins by Building the Cooperative Sector
Full-orbed economic democracy is obviously far off. On the way to something like it, economic democracy is about building up institutions that do not belong wholly to the capitalist market or the state. It begins by expanding the cooperative sector. Producer cooperatives take labor out of the market by removing corporate shares from the stock market and maintaining local worker ownership. Community land trusts take land out of the market and place it under local democratic controls to serve the social needs of communities. Community finance corporations take democratic control over capital to finance cooperative firms, make investments in areas of social need, and fight the redlining policies of banks.
These strategies widen the base of social and economic power by mixing together cooperative banks, employee stock ownership plans, producer cooperatives, community land trusts, and planning agencies that guide investments into locally defined areas of need such as housing, soft-energy hardware, infrastructure maintenance, and mass transit.
But merely expanding the cooperative sector is not enough. Cooperatives usually prohibit non-working shareholders, so they attract less outside financing than capitalist firms. They are committed to keeping low-return firms in operation, so they tend to stay in business even when they can't afford to pay competitive wages. They are committed to particular communities, so they are less mobile than corporate capital and labor. They smack of anti-capitalist bias, so they have trouble getting financing and advice from capitalist banks. They tend to maximize net income per worker rather than profits, so they tend to favor capital-intensive investments over job creation. And because cooperative owners often have their savings invested in a single enterprise, they tend to avoid risky innovations.
These problems can be mitigated with productivity-enhancing tax incentives and regulations. Cooperative economics and ecological sustainability are naturally linked by the necessity of creating structural alternatives to the capitalist fantasy of unlimited growth. The kind of economic development that favors the needs of poor and disenfranchised communities and does not harm the earth's environment requires a dramatically expanded cooperative sector consisting of worker-owned firms rooted in communities, committed to survival, and prepared to accept lower returns.
But worker ownership does not do enough for equality, especially in the highest-yielding cooperatives, which nearly always have high entry fees. Rather than allow members to sell out to the highest bidder and take their capital gains, most cooperatives require members to sell out to the company. This policy guards against reverting to traditional capitalist ownership, but in cooperatives with high share prices, one has to be rather well off or very determined to apply. One might address the equality problem by universalizing cooperation, but that would ruin a mostly good thing. If everyone had to belong to a cooperative, the entry fees would be waved and many enterprises would fail.
Better Social Ownership Models
We need forms of social ownership that facilitate democratic capital formation, have a greater capacity for scaling up, and are more entrepreneurial. Specifically, we need forms of economic democracy featuring public banks and mutual funded holding companies. This approach can take a variety of forms, but the essential idea is to establish competing banks or holding companies in which ownership of productive capital is vested. The companies lend capital to enterprises at market rates of interest and otherwise control the process of investment, including decision-making power to initiate new cooperatives and shut down unprofitable firms. Equity shareholders, the state, and/or other cooperatives own the holding companies or public banks.
Unfortunately there is a lot more theory on this subject than concrete examples of it. The theorists include Peter Abell, Raymond Plant, Alec Nove, Saul Estrin, David Miller, John Roemer, Robert Dahl, Joanne Barkan, Gar Alperovitz, Radoslav Selucky, Otto Sik, Thomas Weisskopf, and David Winter. The biggest experiment thus far was the Meidner Plan in Sweden, named after German economist Rudolf Meidner, which was enacted in 1982 by the Social Democratic government. It called for an annual 20 percent tax on major company profits to be paid in the form of stock to eight regional mutual funds. Worker, consumer, and government representatives controlled the funds, and as their proportion of stock ownership grew, these groups were collectively entitled to representation on company boards.
If fully carried out, this experiment would have rendered effective control over profitable firms in Sweden to the worker and public organizations. But the Social Democrats made little effort to educate the public about it or win popular support for it. For eight years Sweden's corporate class railed against it constantly. The Meidner Plan's term expired in 1990, and especially after the Swedish banking crisis of 1992, the Social Democrats lost their enthusiasm for it. That made political sense for them at the outset of second-wave globalization. It may prove to be the death knell for large-scale experiments in full-orbed economic democracy.
But less ambitious forms of economic democracy have succeeded in many places, and the scale question rests on politics and culture more than economic viability. Public bank theory takes seriously the failures of state socialism, the limitations of worker ownership, and the necessity of building up highly capitalized forms of economic democracy. The distinct advantage of this approach is that it diversifies forms of risk sharing and promotes greater efficiency by forcing firms to be financially accountable to a broad range of investors. Essentially, it is a solution to the entrepreneurial deficiencies of worker ownership, addressing conflicts of interest between cooperative owners and profitability that cause cooperatives to miss market signals.
There Can Be No Socialist Blueprint or Magic Wand
This approach does not rest on idealistic notions about human nature and it should not be the next progressive blueprint. Economic democracy is a brake on human greed and domination; the whole point of it is to fight the universal propensity of dominant groups to hoard social goods and abuse disenfranchised people. Neither should progressives absolutize any particular model of economic democracy, for the blueprint mentality is inherently problematic. Socialists were wrong to equate socialization with nationalization. They were wrong to reject production for profit, wrong to think that state planners could replicate the complex pricing decisions of markets, and wrong in trying to organize an economy not linked by markets. Not all Socialist traditions made these mistakes, but the blueprint mentality was deeply ingrained in virtually all of them.
From a democratic perspective, the key problem with the mutual fund model is that it weakens workers' power at the firm level. To the extent that the holding companies are granted supervisory control over their client enterprises, worker control is diminished. To the extent that the holding companies are kept in a weak position, the advantages of the mutual fund model are traded off as the enterprises essentially become cooperatives.
I have a theory about how to deal with that problem-it's a circular scheme modeled on Mondragon's "second degree" cooperatives that upholds the authority of the holding companies-but more important than any particular theory or model is the willingness to expand the social market in different ways and find out which models work best in particular circumstances.
The tradition of Christian social ethics and progressive theology to which I belong has an ample history on this subject. The father of the social gospel, Washington Gladden, believed that profit-sharing industrial partnerships would put an end to the class struggle, until he lived long enough to see otherwise. The founder of social ethics, Francis G. Peabody, shared the conviction of most social gospelers that cooperatives were obviously the progressive Christian solution. The greatest social gospeler, Walter Rauschenbusch, believed that a combination of state and cooperative ownership would create a good society. Archbishop of Canterbury William Temple developed a type of guild socialism featuring a Meidner-like plan for worker-controlled collective capital funds. Reinhold Niebuhr stood for radical state Socialism before opting for the welfare state. Many liberationists and social ethicists have promoted "socialism" without describing what it is.
Most of this tradition wrongly operated with unitary ideas of capitalism and socialism, as though each were only one thing, culminating in the liberationist tendency to condemn "capitalism" categorically while employing "socialism" as a magic wand. The latter approach is too vague, monolithic, and evasive, but neither should social justice movements embrace any particular model as the next sign of the divine commonwealth.
The Better Way: Organic, Pluralistic, Pragmatic, Voluntary
Economic democracy must be a project built from the ground up, piece by piece, opening new choices, creating more democracy, building an economic order that allows for social contracts, common goods, and ecological flourishing. Economic democracy nurtures and sustains social trust: social capital that no healthy society can do without. It is a project that breaks from the universalizing logic of state socialism and takes seriously that there are different kinds of capitalism. Social theorist Roberto M. Unger calls for "alternative pluralisms," step-by-step constructions of alternative political and economic institutions. Abstract concepts of a monolithic "capitalism" or "market" obscure the variety of possibilities within existing capitalism and markets. So-called "capitalism" is always the product of particular historical configurations, contingencies, and struggles.
The tests of any experiment in economic democracy are pragmatic. To impose something like the Mondragon network on a capitalist society would require coercion over workers who don't want to belong to cooperatives. The U.S. Pacific Northwest has a network of longstanding, highly successful plywood cooperatives. Some plywood workers choose to work in conventional firms instead of the cooperatives. No political economy worth building would force them into a different choice.
The issue of choice, however, is the key to a better alternative. A politics that expanded the cooperative and social ownership sectors would give workers important new choices. The central conceit of neoclassical economics could be turned into a reality if meaningful choices were created. The neoclassical conceit is that capitalism doesn't exploit anyone, because labor employs capital as much as capital employs labor. But in the real world the owners of capital nearly always organize the factors of production. To expand the cooperative and other social market sectors would give choices to workers that neoclassical theory promises, but does not deliver. It would show that there is an alternative to a system that stokes and celebrates greed and consumption to the point of self-destruction.
The earth's ecosystem cannot sustain a U.S.-level lifestyle for more than one-sixth of the world's population. The economy is physical. There are limits to economic growth. Global warming is melting the Arctic ice cap at a shocking pace. It is melting large areas of permafrost in Alaska, Canada, and Siberia, and destroying wetlands and forests around the world. The manic logic of corporate capitalism pays little heed to communities and the environment, and none to equality. Corporate giants like ExxonMobil succeed as businesses and investments while treating the destructive aspects of their behavior as someone else's problem.
For thirty years one had to be a stubborn type to sail against the religion of the market. Now one only needs to be awake. If the stubborn types can seize this terrible moment as an opportunity to build a better social order, we may actually do it.
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70 Comments so far
Show AllA few problems with this article. First off, no mention of credit unions. My wife and I have been proud credit union members even when banks looked too big to fail.
Secondly, the author doesn't understand capitalism very well. While I like some aspects of socialism, when progressives and liberals can talk about the death penalty issue whereby the crime does not fit the punishment they can also understand that the work should fit the pay. For example, my job is complex and mind intensive programming assignments while my coworker next to me is just a helpdesk person. If I'm doing more stressful work, I deserve my fair share of pay and it would not be fair if his pay equalled mine even though his job was less work. That does not mean I support unfettered capitalism whereby CEOs get obscene pay raises while workers are given depressed wages for no reason. Moreover, I support a decent minimum wage base so in some respects I support socialism. I expect to be attacked as a capitalist pig nevertheless so please persecute me.
Finally, I notice some hate talkers on this site who call themselves "progressive" or "liberal" but call for people who have no choice but to serve in the military or work in a company that's defense related directly or indirectly to give up their jobs and settle for extremely sacrificing alternatives. These same people who pretend that it worked for them sound no different than those misleading weight loss commercials. The reality is that progressives and liberals should focus their anger and energy on helping to fight for that green infrastructure that is also economically sound and will in time bring more of us out of our working with defense into working green and make us all proud of it. Until the progressives and liberals grow up and stop persecuting us endlessly, it's all a lose-lose.
There's nothing wrong with getting paid more than somebody else. We're not all equal and hopefully never will be -- celebrate diversity.
There's some truth to it. Like I said, the work should fit the pay. Whoever is getting paid far more than their fair share compared to their harder working coworker at that point doesn't deserve it. Now, I have a mixed support of socialism and capitalism. What we witnessed last year was a blatant illustration of what's been going on under our noses. Socialism for the very wealthy and unfettered capitalism against everyone else. There needs to be some semblance of order.
As long as everyone gets a living wage, where's the problem? Diversity within equality is one thing, diversity within inequality quite another. Socially, this sets us up for measuring others according to a scale based on what is deemed to be superior and inferior. Presently, in the US, wealth or lack thereof seems to be the main criteria for this type of comparison and measurement, and not the content of one's character.
YES!! You nailed it.
"As long as everyone gets a living wage, where's the problem?"
Minimal study reveals that not everyone gets a "living wage" under capitalism -- whether they work zero, one, two, or three jobs. In fact, about half of the US population lives in poverty, and over half of the world is starving to death.
So how much "character" (courage) does it take to stand on the necks of the less fortunate? Do you support wage-labor because you get better wages than others? Good job. Who controls your wages? Who controls your job security? Who controls your life? If you think -you- control your life and wages, then you are in for a big surprise real soon. How much "character" does it take to work three jobs to support a family? How much "character" does it take to support a family on ZERO jobs because none are available?
Moreover, what does it take to make a job available?
It takes capital to make jobs available, and capital is the one thing that you and I do not have. You might have a lot of spit and vigor to sass back at me. But if you bother at all to respond to me on this Web site, the one thing you obviously do NOT own or control is -- capital. People who want to be led around by the nose by existing institutions should continue working for global corporations, and buy their underwear at Wal-Mart, and "support our troops".
Meanwhile, democratization of the workplace puts control of productive capital into the hands of workers. The creation of publicly owned financial institutions places control of capital investment into the hands of the community. The combination of both removes passive ownership from the democratic process in government. For the first time in human history, the establishment of peace and quiet and ecological stability becomes a real-world possibility.
Who, in their right mind, would dispute this?
The passive owners of capital and their loyal soldiers. The rest of us have a lot of work to do. It's time to "Git-R-Done".
I don't disagree with what you said, but was responding to those who worry about who is getting paid what when they are already making enough to be comfortable; who think they are superior to others by virtue of the task they perform. I think everyone should get at least a living wage. And you are correct the 'worker' should share more equitably in the profit his endeavor yields, and have more control over the work. Going beyond that, as a society we need to value all kinds of work, no matter how menial it may seem. The system we presently have is based upon a hierarchy of exploitation.
I see what you're saying now, Chessgames. Sorry. I misunderstood your comment.
"For the first time in human history, the establishment of peace and quiet and ecological stability becomes a real-world possibility."
I must have missed the part just before where you premised that all people are now angels without sin or capacity for anything but altruism towards everyone, always, without fail, and that these new super-humans always labor tirelessly and never retire or go on vacation -- lest they enjoy for a moment the wealth they earned in something resembling a passive capacity outside the workplace.
Do you not recognize what level of control you would need to exert upon the population to achieve your utopia? Have you considered that the level of control in society now under state capitalism is perhaps a modicum less awful then state socialism?
First, we're discussing a reasonable opportunity for most (or all) people to live a decent life, not any sort of "utopia". If people think "utopia" is a decent income, home, food, water, healthcare, education and a clean environment, then I think our standards are set tragically low. Moreover, Dorrien's recommendations are a step toward these very basic excpectations, not the final destination.
Secondly, absent the antagonism of passive ownership (or some other form of tyranny) with virtually every life on the planet, a self-managed democratic society doesn't need to be "controlled" or governed by some external force. In fact, the government becomes an instrument of the general interest rather than a weapon of the exclusively entitled elite to keep the mob in "order". As Dorrien suggests, to remove the extreme influence of passive ownership requires democratization of the workplace and the formation of publicly owned banks to support the expansion of that movement.
Passive ownership? That strikes me as a little too fluid. What makes ownership passive? Does the summer weekend camping tent or cottage count as a passive possession for 300 days out of the year? What of the bicycle you ride only when the sun shines? Or the circular saw you haven't touched since 2005? Is one corner of your 100 acre field you did not plant for the past few years no longer rightfully yours?
Defining utopia as "...a decent income, home, food, water, healthcare, education and a clean environment..." was not what I interpreted from your line that I quoted previously, where you opined support for "...the establishment of peace and quiet and ecological stability...", to say nothing of the distance which your ideals of home might contrast with those of nomadic persuasion choosing to live in RVs, or the right of individuals to make health care decisions without submitting their entire health history and DNA to faceless bureaucrats thousands of miles away, or the freedom of educating your kids outside systems of standardized testing.
If people want to voluntarily join credit unions, good! If people want to voluntarily buy shares of the company they work for, great!
I simply question every point at which your argument would hinge on the use of force to make these decisions and at what point you would allow people the freedom to opt-out peacefully if they disagree.
maxpayne
An excellent post. Fair comment in all respects.
Thomas More,
Thanks again. I'm more of a mixed kid on socialism and capitalism. I have witnessed the consequences of both systems being abused and distorted. Even more than reading them from text books, it takes experience to actually understand the pluses and the minuses of both systems.
maxpayne
True again.
maxpayne and Thomas More: Please get a room.
Oops. duplicate post.
And your point is ???
First off, before I respond Max, you made some decent points. However, you have to explain a few things. For one, who is "us"? Also, what are "liberals"? Who are "liberals" persecuting? Cuase from what I can tell, the people who are called liberals in the US can't even get the party that they have voted for, to the point that they now have a large majority, to do as much as listen to them on the the most important issues of the day (look at the difference, for instance, on polls taken on the stances people take on healthcare and look at the legislature our "republic" is creating. Huge difference between mass opinion and policy positions by the crooks in government). Isn't capitalst, or even social democracitic republicanism, representative republicanism supposed to be so much better than democracy (socialism really) because our most intelligent and well educated people would be in charge of policy and they would come up with so much more logical and better policies than the ignorant general public? Do you see any evidence of this? I'm honeslty asking. How do these people persecute you, and "individual liberty" lovers like freedom? Strongly dissagreeing is not persecuting you.
On the issue of what you make. There have been numerous studies showing that the vast majority of wealth in the US is inhereted. There's a report called "Born on Third Base" that shows the data: http://www.faireconomy.org/press_room/1997/born_on_third_base_sources_of_wealth_of_1997_forbes_400
How can we have a just economy if so much wealth today comes from the fact that people are born in rich families, which has nothing to do with hard work? How about CEO's now making approaching 400 times more than average workers, when decades ago it was about 52 times (still insanely high) as much. What about financial traders and investors, who make millions and billions of dollars and add nothing to the world? The financial markets have exploded in size in recent decades, especially relative to the real economy. Small groups of people are making money off of money, and it goes far beyond the Fed freedom. Ever hear of the Eurodollar Market, with NO reserve ratios, tax shelters and the like? Fractional reserve banking itself, which capitalism couldn't exist without? What about a freaking baseball player making literally a hundred times as much money as a doctor? A porn actress so much more than a teacher? Maybe the market, beyond being increasingly inneficient for a number of reasons (the environment being the largest), doesn't reward people logically really, maybe there are other factors that aren't just or logical.
I, personally, think that capitalism has lead to some economic development. The problem however has something to do with something you mentioned, the new buzzword "green". There is a finite amount of resources in the world. People in the developing world consume far less per capita than those in the developed world. How do you not destroy the environment, in a world of finite resources and capicity to obsorb pollution, help increase living standards (and consumption) in the poorer countries and increase consumption in the "West" in the long run? It isn't logically possible. Capitalism HAS lead to economic development, in large part because the developed countries have stopped the development of the poorer countries and kept their consumptions levels down. What type of capitalism will survive when growth in consumption and pollution hits a wall? What will happen to the environment if poorer countries continue (especially in places like Latin America) to elect leftist governments who want to do just this and do a much better job of delivering basical social services that capitalism has shown itself incapable of doing and the West continues to want to consume as it does? Do we basically develop a caste system, since wealth and ownership of land is held so unequally? Do we have a small group of people (you call it socialism, tell that to the Bolivarian Revolution in Venezuela which has direct participatory rights for every day citizens, that dreaded "democracy", that we could only dream of in the US) deciding who gets to consume what in this finite world and under conditions that only they chose, which would be a private tyranny without precident? Just imagine, we hit an ecological wall, and wealth concentration is frozen, nothing is done about this because of some abstract notions of "propety rights". So if you don't own any resources, you and people like you will be the vast majority, you and your family's life is in the hands of those that do. How can capitalism, and capitalist representative democracy, do a darn thing about this?
I totally understand how the issues of economic development can be abstracted when you live in a rich country and don't step back and look at the big picture, or when the environment takes such a back seat economically (when it is talked about it is done superficially), but the situation is what it is.
Wilber1
I hope you won't mind if I butt in here, but I'd like to make a couple of points on your post. But if you do, I'm easy to ignore. Thanks.
Your comment on poll's, I'd say you have to be very careful in using poll's. There are so many push poll's out there its scarey.
I'm a liberal, but we are not a large segment of the population, I believe you may mean The Democrats are not listening to the hard left, which is a small segment of the population, known as progressives these days.
"Bolivarian Revolution in Venezuela which has direct participatory rights for every day citizens"
I'd wait a bit before holding this up as a good example....not known how it will turn out yet.
"People in the developing world consume far less per capita than those in the developed world."
Rapidly changing as they develop.
"How about CEO's now making approaching 400 times more than average workers, when decades ago it was about 52 times (still insanely high) as much. What about financial traders and investors, who make millions and billions of dollars and add nothing to the world? The financial markets have exploded in size in recent decades,"
A disgrace that will soon end I believe. That economy is gone and hopefully will never come back. Why would you be mad at someone that inherited wealth?
Thanks Thomas. I would like to add one more thing though. It's not capitalism that's at fault. It's capitalism degraded that's been going on. Like anything else, if one hates something, he or she will degrade it to the point of making it unlikable and then everyone will hate it. I've seen capitalism reach its peak in the 1980s and the degradation begin from there and continuing decade after decade. And the bailouts to Wall $treet are not capitalism but socialism for Wall $treet as far as I'm concerned. As for liberal and progressive, I really can't say. I just describe myself as a moderate Democrat and I'm not referring to the DLC or Blue Dog coalition. I'm talking Democrat with moderated beliefs. I have some conservatism in me too but not a whole lot and I don't push for it. For example, I may not believe in abortions but I don't go whacking women who do it for whatever reason. Another example, I don't believe that guns are the solution to life's problems but I have no qualms against gun ownership either. Sometimes, people call me a liberal, other times a conservative but I guess that's the price for being a moderated individual.
"It's capitalism degraded that's been going on."
Thats the darn truth!
"It's capitalism degraded that's been going on."
Explain this further. This could mean a million and one things.
"And the bailouts to Wall $treet are not capitalism but socialism for Wall $treet as far as I'm concerned."
How is this any different than before the 1980's? Most of our technology comes out of the military, always has. We socialized the costs of R & D through the military the public universities and government grants, we used most of the technology in the military and turned it over to private entities to sell back to us what we paid for. Without this, no internet, no computers, cable TV, civilian aircraft (a industrial product we actually still export), amongst other things. How about the massive amounts of protection for domestic industry, since our country was formed recently? Corporate subsidies, which have been used for things like driving Mexican farmers off the land and raising the prices of food we pay, which goes right into the pockets of the private powers. How about us socializing the costs of the environment? Industry pollutes, which is costs they create, and we all pay for it with our lives and health. There are endless other examples. I just think this is a situation where many fundamental problems of the system are coming to a head (a system based on growth in world that doesn't have much more room to grow, a system based on ever increasing profits when the result is the destruction of entire countries, a system based on the primacy of finance capital when that capital undermines democracy, the environment and economic development, amongst other things). I'm waiting for a detailed response as to how this economic system, and the representative democracy we have so far removed from public opinion, can fix the problems they've created and refuse to fix.
Before I respond in more detail, I'm not mad at someone who inherited wealth, I'm mad at the people who gloss over this when talking about abstract concepts like economic justice and I think something has to be done on inherited wealth if we are to attempt a truly just economic system.
The Democrats have been ignoring the "hard left"? For one, define what this exactly means. My guess is that it is one of two things: either it is a group that long ago left the Democratic Party and electoral politics all together and is used for propaganda only or it is the general public.
For example, the general public by a WIDE margin is in favor of single payer universal healthcare. This by itself is a "hard left" position, now shared by the majority of Americans. The "hard left", the general public's position on the matter, is now being ignored by DC liberals in the healthcare debate, the liberals just love them some drug company and health insurance industry lobbyists though. The "liberal" compromises have not fixed the core problems of the system and have at best made a horrible system just a little better. How about the economy? Same goes. Large portions of the public has a problem with "free trade" and NAFTA like deals, again for obvious reasons. This is traditionally a "hard left" position, it is now shared by the general public. I would venture to say that a majority on elected representatives could care less, this nonsense mess of an economic system is "inevitable" they say. Go down every issue and there is a gap between public opinion and government policy, and you'll see that public opinion is far closer to the "hard left" on this and other matters, like the environment, the war, the bailouts, etc. The Democrats are listening to money, they have no higher logic or morals, and will do as much as they can for the centers of power without causing themselves too much trouble with the general public. If anything needs to fundamentally change, forget it.
"Rapidly changing as they develop." The only countries that are increasing their consumption in a relatively egalitarian matter are doing so by IGNORING the advice of the liberals and conservatives in this country, whose compromises have destroyed countries who've listened to our nonsense economic ideas. Latin America has elected one leader after another in strong opposition to these policies. There's a reason for this and there's a reason why the current left of liberal policies are working far better for them than the "lost period" of "free market capitalism".
“A disgrace that will soon end I believe.” Explain how and show me some evidence. As I said, public opinion and anger means nothing. What evidence do you see that this system is about to end and how is this going to come about?
“How can capitalism, and capitalist representative democracy, do a darn thing about this?”
Maybe nothing.
May I suggest an analogy?
View this political system as a biological one.
Every system has survival instincts and mechanisms to avert influences of change threatening its structure. It has a firm grip on anything that could jeopardize the Status Quo. There are many parts that police the maintenance and preservation of the system’s functions. They are Legislative and Executive. They detect and eliminate any change to the system. They eradicate virus, bacteria, germs and foreign particles. They also annihilate disorderly cells, stall modifying attempts and obliterate useless minori...err, microorganisms.
They keep the system intact and preserve ORDER.
They cleanse and maintain it by persecution of progressive and structure-threatening particles.
In this way they prevent mutation, change and ALTERED STATES.
However, evolution (and survival of a species) is not possible without mutation and selection.
Now, lets go back to our system: The ruling elite has taken over the body like a virus. Clandestine infection by greedy socio-pathogens (banksters) has perverted democracy into a grotesque democracy of the stunned, simple-minded masses, too afflicted by survival and too impotent by fascistic control to heal the body.
US democracy is a scam. It’s a tool of the financial fascism that devours the world.
In the process there is a bit of ‘Collateral Damage’:
>>> www.scribd.com/people/documents/2169400-ep-heidner <<<
The crux of the matter is that throughout modern history we have seen defacto experiments in unregulated capitlism, regulated capitalism, and socialism play out.
Unfortunately the beneficiaries of unregulated capitalists own most of the media, making them very successful at turning their revisionist history into fact for the US electorate.
An objective assessment of history reveals that, unlike the century of unregulated capitalism that preceeded it, the "experiment" in regulated capitalism from 1935 to 1980 produced great opportunity for 98% of the US population and actually created a solid middle class that had been forming during the progressive era (1902-1921) and roaring twenties, but found itself adrift with the crash of 29.
Unregulated capitalism and socialism are both idyllic in theory. Unfortunately, both fail to address human nature, a shortcoming that ignores the fact that both systems will benefit 2% of the population at the expense of the other 98%.
"both fail to address human nature, a shortcoming that ignores the fact that both systems will benefit 2% of the population at the expense of the other 98%."
What, besides socialism, has ever done this? Socialism is democracy, if I have to I will link endless people from all ideological stripes saying as much. Europe got a more just economic system as a result of large amounts of socialism. They had a far reduced labor market, had various social programs that covered all and opereated outside the reach of market relations and they have direct participatory measures are far stronger unions than in the US, a far more capitalist society. There is a gap in public opinion there, it is growing, but it is still far less than in the US because they have more democratic measures than we do, we have a failing representative democratic system.
Also, define what human nature IS, because brilliant men and women, despite their best efforts can't figure this out, can't figure out anything more than a relatively small fraction of brain activity. Somehow though, economists (mainly of the capitalist variety) have found this nature. Why, if socialism is so against human nature, did people exist in what amounted to communism up until about 10,000 years ago. Very little private property, little differences in class and power, communal land ownership. Why, up until a few centuries ago, was most of Europe's property in common hands, large portions of it stollen from peasants? Maybe these people weren't aware of their own nature and were fighting it every day, or capitalist economists should move on to another argument.
I'm glad I read this one all the way through. After slugging past the Keynesian dogma in the beginning, and letting slide the lack of mention of the role of the Federal Reserve in manipulating the interest rates that are so critical to every market, it actually gets pretty good in expounding on voluntary cooperation. I look forward to the author's new book!
The pols can't give us economic democracy. The binding referendum can: http://ni4d.us/
ezeflyer
That may not be such a bad idea. Looking into it.
Good to see http://ni4d.us/ mentioned.
Since I became aware of its existence I have made a point of mentioning it wherever it seemed to be appropriate. It is such a long shot to get half the eligible population backing it that it needs enormous exposure.
http://ni4d.us/
Interesting notion. Unfortunately we, the people, didn't write the US Constitution. They, the white male property owners, did -- and they continue to do so. Absent the extreme influence of passive ownership, representative democracy would probably work just fine. But I do wish you luck with that. Any attempt at improvement is better than nothing at all.
The problem with this article is it's to long and it's so filled with gibberish nobody but a University Prof. understands that it ends up just putting you to sleep. This was why Communism failed, nobody understood a word the Marxists Profs. were saying and when reduced to it's bottom line it ended up with Stalin and gulags. The problem with today's Capitalism is it's all about BIGNESS. All that's left is the BIG CORPS. and BIG GOV't. If you have a job in either of these two realms your probably ok. If not your fucked.
freedomcorpse (10:59am) made the same point and I would agree. Our government has written laws and regulatory structures that favor Bigness. Once upon a time a case could be made for economies of scale, but I think technology has developed so that E.F. Schumacher's vision (Small Is Beautiful--economics as if people mattered, 1973)
is well within reach. The big banks can and should be taken over, broken up and reprivatized as recommended by economists of all stripes, even those advocating "stimulus". Law can be changed (e.g., bring back Glass-Steagall, disallow industry concentrations as promoted in the Telecommunications Act of 1996). Small businesses need to be deregulated. The current structure chokes off small business in favor of big business. I always thought the Republicans knew exactly what they were doing, even as they claimed to be the party of small business, and that the Dems were simply clueless. Not so sure now, maybe both were clueless, or both knew exactly what they were doing.
Publicly funded venture capital operations is frightening. Besides running entrepreneurial investment by bureaucrats it is the height of bigness, not to mention an opportunity for catastrophic loss, the "risk" that merits the rewards. Local banks, regional banks and credit unions are the investment workhorses, as in Savings=Investment. If we hadn't been subsidizing oil, gas and nuclear, green energy would have been competitive years ago.
Very well said. I witnessed the degrading of well regulated capitalism starting in the 1980s and continuing decade after decade. See my seperate post on this thread where I compare the pluses and minuses of socialism and capitalism. I really get sick and tired of people attacking capitalism when in fact, it's unfettered capitalism that's the problem, not capitalism itself. Like anything else, if one degrades something he or she hates to the point of making it unlikable, then eventually more people will be prepared to get rid of it. It happened to both socialism and capitalism. Both need to be brought back and balanced out.
maxpayne: I, too, have been watching this for over 30 years. I think, however, there's a plan to confuse us about capitalism. Every time there is a suggestion for a gov't subsidy or a deregulation (both of which I adamantly oppose on principle) the defense is "you can't interfere with free markets". Then people respond by saying "free markets don't work" when they should be saying "What free market?" Instead of discussing how to get a market that works better we're wrapped into a futile discussion about whether free markets work. Now, who does that benefit?
Frankly, it’s people like you who are the real problem.
Intelligent participation in democracy requires a minimum of knowledge of history, politics, social systems and economy. Don’t blame the wolf for the stupidity of sheep. Intelligence cannot be consumed. You have to use your brain.
http://www.fknnewz.com/view/273/i-am-the-nwo/
If democracy were an integral part of everyday life in the workplace, a part of daily conversation, not an uncomfortable subject of discussion to evade -- then perhaps the roles of "sheep" and "wolf" would be reversed. Perhaps the "sheeple" would be encouraged to use their brains daily, instead of being prohibited from doing so by a system of wage-slavery. Under such conditions, the wolf might actually starve to death. So much for consumption.
yachtie
I don't see the need for that kind of rudeness. If you can't make a point without being offensive, you shouldn't.
Well, Thomas, my intention was not to offend but to rattle introspective. Let’s not pussyfoot here. The whole lethargic society needs a good kick up the proverbial. "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way".
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If something annoys me I tend to ask myself why it annoys me. There is a good chance that it’s something in me worth analyzing. And of course you’ll find what I said reverberating in you. We all do.
After all, we are all part of the system.
Awareness is the key, not diffusion and trench warfare.
sierra7
Seaglass...
You left out BIG(GIST) Military (to keep the world in line) and BIG(GIST) internal societal controls fronted by a tapestry of intellectuals and media (which you did mention) entrenched within the collegial walls and embedded in our political system and major corporations. These intellectuals (and media) proffer the construct as Noam Chomsky has so well spoken of over the decades of, "The Manufacturing of Consent." (Also Walter Lippman)
Our system uses us like "rats in a cage" literally making the gyrations go faster and faster (between economic "bubbles")until every once in a while it explodes!
WE do have a choice to participate or not....to participate 100% or less....I've made my choice throughout my life to not participate 100% and have no regrets and am not wealthy at all....It's all about priorities.
Qualification: I am a registered no-partisan voter; have no particular use anymore for either major party; too morally and financially corrupt....and far, far beyond any redemption by any "leader" that would participate in the system....You can't have millionaires (not all) and billionaires in our Congress or Senate. That nullifies any "objectivity" by those politicians.
Enough....
There is no easy solution to this problem....It would be indicative to possibly start with a debate on what we define as, "progress", or "progressive."
There are a number of misunderstandings here, particularly about 1) where wealth is derived under capitalism, 2) how the extreme influence of accumulated wealth skews (badly distorts) the decision-making process, and 3) how Dorrien's proposal of economic democracy addresses these and other related problems.
The democratic process in the US is monstrously skewed in favor of wealth derived from the passive ownership of capital. So, as Noam Chomsky suggests, most Americans are passive spectators ("ignorant and meddlesome outsiders") in the democratic process. It's no coincidence that those same people (workers) are also the most active daily participants in the economic process of generating wealth -- for somebody else. The passive claimants of all that wealth are the owners of capital (non-workers) -- and it's no coincidence that those people (less than 1-percent of the US population) also happen to be the most active daily participants in the democratic process. Moreover, the interests of workers and the interests of passive ownership are directly opposed -- regarding wages and virtually everything else.
David Chandler's "L-Curve" [http://www.lcurve.org/] is the best graphic representation I've found for illustrating the aggressive assault on US democracy. He states: "The horizontal spike [on the curve] has the votes. The vertical spike [on the curve] has the money. Who wins, when it comes to electoral politics? Who has influence? Whose interests are being represented in Washington? Can democracy meaningfully exist where the distribution of wealth, and thus the distribution of power, is this concentrated?" [http://www.lcurve.org/]
So less than half of a percent of the US population are passive economic claimants and active political participants. The rest of us are active economic generators and passive political spectators. We, the people, are imposters in our own democratic system -- deliberately excluded from an economically skewed distribution of "democracy". The good news is that this problem can be corrected. The bad news is that correcting the problem involves something called "cooperation", probably along the lines that Gary Dorrien outlines above. Dr. King calls it "cooperative alliance", and it is the very foundation of genuine democracy: "For an alliance to have permanence and loyal commitment from its various elements, each of them must have a goal from which it benefits and none must have an outlook in basic conflict with the others." Thus, the antagonistic relationship between workers and passive ownership cannot exist in any truly democratic society.
To "normalize" our democratic process, the extreme influence of unearned income derived from passive ownership must be removed from the distribution. This is the function of 1) worker cooperatives and 2) a network of publicly owned banks. These two must collaborative to expand the cooperative sector and provide a new set of choices for workers who have been displaced by the capitalist system. While worker owned enterprise can be a step in the right direction, it’s not enough. Self-managed worker control is essential to remove the influence of passive ownership. Credit unions are also a step in the right direction, and I don’t think Dorrien opposes them. But again, they’re not enough. To remove the influence of passive ownership, financial institutions must be publicly owned and democratically controlled. The Common Good Bank model is one possibility in this regard [http://www.commongoodbank.com/], and the Worker Coop Credit Union outlines others here: [http://workercoopfcu.org/]
Overall, this is not about equalizing wages, or the janitor earning as much pay as the engineer or the doctor. The key is to remove wages and passive ownership altogether so that workers become the decision-makers and the residual claimants. As the author states, the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain have been doing this with great success for the past fifty years. This has very little (if anything) to do with the Soviet model – which had very little (if anything) to do with genuine “socialism”. To arrive at “social” (democratic) control of anything, the influence of passive ownership -and- the state must be removed (or dramatically minimized) from the bottom-up. This process begins in the workplace – where most people spend most of their lives – and requires the support of publicly owned banks.
Finally, the transition between capitalism and economic democracy will not be easy. Like Dorrien says, there is no magic wand or blueprint or formula. So it’s quite understandable that all this seems foreign to many readers. If democracy were an integral part of our daily lives – in our workplaces and communities – we wouldn’t have nearly so much trouble deciphering all the “gibberish”. For more information about economic democracy, start with Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_democracy], and then check the sources for anything you find interesting.
Last night I watched a report on the Fifth Estate up here in Canada regarding "The Green Economy".
They were pointing out how some quarter of a million Germans were now working in The "Green Economy" producing things like Solar cells, and wind turbines.
They used as example plants in East Germany producing solar cells and employing tens of thousands of workers that would otherwise have been out of work.
One plant had its full production sold out for the next 10 years , was expanding to triple its production lines inside the plant, and was going to build another massive building to expand even further.
The company making these cells was in fact a CANADIAN company. In Canada they had been on the verge of Bankruptcy until the German Governmnet came calling, suggesting they relocate to Germany and offering Incentives and Guaranteed sales to do so.
So as manufacturing plants in Ontario shut down in droves and tens of thousands laid off and with our Prime Minsiter saying he will not adopt a green economy as it will cost jobs in Canada, These green jobs by the hundreds of thousands move to Europe.
Germany expects that the "Green economy" will be the single largest employer in Germany within a decade and these are all high paying jobs.
And that's purely because they don't have Oil oligarchs manipulating policies and politics.
Precisely. The old ESTABLISHED energy providers , such as big oil, coal and Nuclear are part of the Esatblishment and actively block such changes via lobbying.
Furthermore, as far as the Government is concerned. they look at the optics of an Industry like big oil providing tens of thousands of jobs and can only see those CURRENT existing jobs, thus feeling they must be protected. This another version of the too big to fail mantra.
At the same time were it not for Government newer technologies would never get off the ground in a purely Capitalist economy because those industries with the most to lose from such technologies will use their CAPITAL and political clout to halt such change.
The fact of the matter is that most evolutionary technologies are developed first by the Government and once the groundwork and raw researh done, the Corporations jump on board.
If they can not make money off it in the near term and show a return to the shareholder, they will not get on board.
I believe that in order for our economies to evolve, we have to get past the "Money is Wealth" and measure our real wealth and progress by the benefits accrued by the society at large from given industry and resources. We focus too much on PROFIT which is becoming the only means to the end.
I am sorry but I have to disagree on some points.
Governments are do never develop technologies. Capitalism does. And capitalism lobbies (=buys) government.
In that respect fossil fuel technology has prohibited true evolutionary progress via political control and patenting laws. However, the military-industrial complex is THE technological innovator. And the MIC is nothing but a (big) tool of usurpation. Government is a lackey.
>>> www.scribd.com/people/documents/2169400-ep-heidner <<<
>>Governments are do never develop technologies. Capitalism does. And capitalism lobbies (=buys) government.
I suggest you are wrong. The funding and grants for the Universities invested into raw research comes from Governments. The Individuals that "invent" are not Corporations, they are peoples trained in the schools and Universities.
The MIC is certainly very large in the USA but it not that large in other countries yet all of them develop new technologies. It is not Corporations in Canada that have been mapping the genome of all these viruses as fast as they come out. They are Government funded insitutions and scientists.
The Corporations merely take that data as their own once it out there.
Now if you want to ignore technology and look to infrastructure, the highways and damn projects in the USA that helped her to industrialize were not funded by the Corporations. Again the Governmnet provided the dollars. The Hoover damn would never have been built by a Corporation on its own with its own money.
Back to technology. The internet was developed via a US Government initiative. The spread of the same through the US is now the domain of private telecomm companies.
In comparing download speeds and costs of the USA to other advanced countries the US is at the BOTTOM of the pack.
Again the Corporations in the us see little reason to improves speeds and lower costs because it is not seen as profitable to do so.
Japans Internet speeds are about 10 times as high and subscirption fees lower. This due to Government mandated regulation. The Government of Japan sees a robust internet as a strategic and economic advantage.
The Governmnet of the USA only focuses on Companies profits.
“The funding and grants for the Universities invested into raw research comes from Governments” And where do you think the decisions are made who should get funding? It is the same lobby who sits in the Board of Trustees. The Board of Trustees of the University consists mostly of financiers and business executives, for example at the University of Chicago Law School (where Obama comes from) the president of Goldman, Sachs & Co. These are the people whom the chairs of departments (professors) have to please. Professors may have tenure, but otherwise the power of the trustees to set university policy has changed little since Upton Sinclair wrote The Goose-step circa 1921. They try to create go-along to get-along corporate tools or people so immersed in their subjects they are apolitical and leave the structures of power alone. A liberal might sneak in a totally non-threatening field like art history, but not in the key areas of law, economics and business.
“The Individuals that "invent" are not Corporations, they are peoples trained in the schools and Universities.” Yes they are trained there but most inventions are made by corporate employees and pivoting inventions are either property of the employer or are bought up by corporations either to further their field or to stifle competition.
“It is not Corporations in Canada that have been mapping the genome of all these viruses as fast as they come out. They are Government funded institutions and scientists.” But the patents are bought up by the pharma industry which ‘lobbies’ (=buys) government.
“The Corporations merely take that data as their own once it out there.” And the taxpayer subsidizes the research and the corporations then use the final data.
“Now if you want to ignore technology and look to infrastructure, the highways and damn projects in the USA that helped her to industrialize were not funded by the Corporations.” The corporations do not need to fund what they need. They lobby government to fork out money to serve their interests.
“Again the Government provided the dollars.” It is us the taxpayer who funds all this.
“The internet was developed via a US Government initiative.” The Internet was the result of some visionary thinking by people in the early 1960s who saw great potential value in allowing computers to share information on research and development in scientific and military fields. J.C.R. Licklider of MIT, first proposed a global network of computers in 1962, and moved over to the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) in late 1962 to head the work to develop it (from “A Brief History Of The Internet”).
“The spread of the same through the US is now the domain of private telecomm companies.” The really important contest is taking place amongst the telco, telecommunications and software giants. Because most IP data travels over long-haul lines, the Internet is actually the telephone companies. Who owns the telephone companies? The Telecommunications Act of 1996 actually puts ownership of the Internet up for grabs. The paper considers how the Act has put traditional telephone companies in danger of extinction. Powerful US computer companies continue to buy up the main hardware and software lines connecting countries and continents to the emergent private Internet. Most telecom companies throughout the world have reacted too slowly to IP. Their sluggishness will be their ruin.
”In comparing download speeds and costs of the USA to other advanced countries the US is at the BOTTOM of the pack. Again the Corporations in the us see little reason to improves speeds and lower costs because it is not seen as profitable to do so.” See above.
“The Government of the USA only focuses on Companies profits.” And here we are of the same opinion.
Have you read ‘Collateral Damage’ part I & II ?
>>> www.scribd.com/people/documents/2169400-ep-heidner <<<
GwNorth
Very interesting.
Economic democracy is an oxymoron, in that democracy is a political concept rather than an economic one. Muddling the two terms together gets us nowhere except deeper into confusion.
Whatever the details, improvements in the economic system can be made only by the political system. Therefore, we need first to redo the politics, after which we can turn to the applications.
Economics deals with goals, as used here. Better distribution, for example. But politics is how we cooperate to achieve said goals, i.e. about method.
We now are now trying to see how to deal with the 21st Century using the political tools of the 18th, as futile an endeavor as I can imagine.
It's not like putting the cart before the horse, it's more like creating some kind of cyborg that has two legs in front and two wheels in back, and no visible provision for steering.
Is "political economy" an oxymoron? Many universities would say "no", since they teach courses in it.
Can economics be democratic? Many university professors, like David Schweickart and Gary Dorrien and Michael Howard say "yes, most definitely".
Can capitalism be democratic? This is where we get into the oxymoron thing: "Democratic Capitalism". Good luck with that.
Capitalism is an economic system in which passive ownership of capital siphons income (and accumulates great wealth) from the productive activities of others. So the interests of passive ownership and the interests of workers are directly opposed. The antagonistic relationship between workers and passive ownership cannot exist in any truly democratic society.
There's your "oxymoron".