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Published on Wednesday, May 6, 2009 by CommonDreams.org
Who Will Stop the AIPAC Jews Before it is Too Late?
While I was being tackled by security guards at Washington's Convention Center during the AIPAC conference for unfurling a banner that asked "What about Gaza?," my heart was aching. I wasn't bothered so much by the burly guards who were yanking my arms behind by back and dragging me-along with 5 other CODEPINK members-out of the hall. They were doing their job.
What made my heart ache was the hatred I felt from the AIPAC staff who tore up the banner and slammed their hands across my mouth as I tried to yell out: "What about Gaza? What about the children?"
"Shut the f--- up. Shut the f--- up." one staffer yelled, red-faced and sweating as he ran beside me. "This is not the place to be saying that shit. Get the f--- out of here."
What makes my heart ache is thinking about the traumatized children I met on my recent trip to Gaza, and how their suffering is denied by the 6,000 AIPAC conventioneers who are living in a bubble-a bubble where Israel is the victim and all critics are anti-Semitic, terrorist lovers or, as in my case, self-hating Jews.
I found it fascinating that AIPAC's executive director Howard Kohr opened the conference admitting that there was now a huge, international campaign against the policies of Israel. He painted a picture of 30,000 people marching in Spain, Italian trade unionists calling for a boycott of Israeli products, the UN Human Rights Council passing 26 resolutions condemning Israel, an Israeli Apartheid Week that is building a global boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign.
This global movement, he warned, emanates from the Middle East, echoes in the halls of the United Nations and the capitals of Europe, is voiced in meetings of international peace organizations, and is spreading throughout the United States-from the media to town hall meetings, from campuses to city squares. "No longer is this campaign confined to the ravings of the political far left or far right," he lamented, "but increasingly it is entering the American mainstream."
But Kohr failed to explain why there has been such an explosion in this movement, even among the American Jewish community. He didn't tell the attendees that the world was shocked and outraged by Israel's devastating 22-day attack on Gaza that left over 1,300 people dead-mostly women and children. He didn't mention the killing of civilians fleeing their homes, the use of white phosphorous, the bombing of homes, schools, mosques, hospitals, UN buildings, factories. He didn't talk about the continuing, cruel blockade of the Gaza Strip that is keeping desperately needed humanitarian aid from reaching 1.5 million people and making rebuilding impossible.
There were no seminars at the conference by human rights groups like Amnesty International that are calling for an immediate and comprehensive suspension of arms to Israel. Instead, one after another, U.S. elected officials eager to curry favor with AIPAC pledged continued U.S. financial support for Israel. Senator Kerry, despite that fact that he was one of only a handful of legislators who visited Gaza, didn't say one word about the massive destruction he witnessed and pledged that as Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he would do everything to ensure that the $30 billion in military aid to Israel is "delivered in full." "America will continue our military aid, and Israel will keep its military strength," he insisted. Instead of calling for talks with the democratically elected government of Hamas, Kerry said: "Hamas has already won one election-we cannot allow them to win another." He ended his speech shouting several times in Hebrew, "Am Yisrael Chai-Israel lives!"
Even Vice President Biden, who at least told AIPAC that Israel should freeze new settlement activity, didn't say a word about the ongoing humanitarian crisis caused by Israel's invasion and continued blockade of Gaza. No U.S. officials, and there were hundreds at the conference, dared echo the call of the United Nations or the world community to lift the siege of Gaza.
Republican Congressman Eric Cantor was one of the most emotional speakers, portraying Israel as the victim of an evil global movement determined to wipe out Israel and all Jews. Evoking the "shivering, naked victims who were herded into the gas chambers," he wondered when it would become too late to protect Israel. "When is it too late?", he repeated over and over.
I wonder the same thing. When is it too late, I wonder, to stop Israel from destroying itself? When is it too late to tell AIPAC attendees that more violence and hatred is not the answer? When is it too late to open the hardened hearts of my people, once victims of a terrible holocaust, to realize that by occupying Palestine we have become they evil we deplore? When is it too late to restore meaning to the Hebrew term "tikkun olam" by truly working to heal the world? When is it too late for the Jews of the world to weep for the children of Gaza, recognizing that they, too, are the children of God?
I couldn't ask my questions at AIPAC. My mouth was muzzled by the sweaty hands of hate-filled staffers demanding that I "shut the f--- up." But despite AIPAC's massive funds and influence, I feel certain that more and more members of the Jewish community will step forward and refuse to be silent. I just pray it is not too late.
For information on upcoming delegations to Gaza, see www.codepinkalert.org/gaza.
What made my heart ache was the hatred I felt from the AIPAC staff who tore up the banner and slammed their hands across my mouth as I tried to yell out: "What about Gaza? What about the children?"
"Shut the f--- up. Shut the f--- up." one staffer yelled, red-faced and sweating as he ran beside me. "This is not the place to be saying that shit. Get the f--- out of here."
What makes my heart ache is thinking about the traumatized children I met on my recent trip to Gaza, and how their suffering is denied by the 6,000 AIPAC conventioneers who are living in a bubble-a bubble where Israel is the victim and all critics are anti-Semitic, terrorist lovers or, as in my case, self-hating Jews.
I found it fascinating that AIPAC's executive director Howard Kohr opened the conference admitting that there was now a huge, international campaign against the policies of Israel. He painted a picture of 30,000 people marching in Spain, Italian trade unionists calling for a boycott of Israeli products, the UN Human Rights Council passing 26 resolutions condemning Israel, an Israeli Apartheid Week that is building a global boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign.
This global movement, he warned, emanates from the Middle East, echoes in the halls of the United Nations and the capitals of Europe, is voiced in meetings of international peace organizations, and is spreading throughout the United States-from the media to town hall meetings, from campuses to city squares. "No longer is this campaign confined to the ravings of the political far left or far right," he lamented, "but increasingly it is entering the American mainstream."
But Kohr failed to explain why there has been such an explosion in this movement, even among the American Jewish community. He didn't tell the attendees that the world was shocked and outraged by Israel's devastating 22-day attack on Gaza that left over 1,300 people dead-mostly women and children. He didn't mention the killing of civilians fleeing their homes, the use of white phosphorous, the bombing of homes, schools, mosques, hospitals, UN buildings, factories. He didn't talk about the continuing, cruel blockade of the Gaza Strip that is keeping desperately needed humanitarian aid from reaching 1.5 million people and making rebuilding impossible.
There were no seminars at the conference by human rights groups like Amnesty International that are calling for an immediate and comprehensive suspension of arms to Israel. Instead, one after another, U.S. elected officials eager to curry favor with AIPAC pledged continued U.S. financial support for Israel. Senator Kerry, despite that fact that he was one of only a handful of legislators who visited Gaza, didn't say one word about the massive destruction he witnessed and pledged that as Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he would do everything to ensure that the $30 billion in military aid to Israel is "delivered in full." "America will continue our military aid, and Israel will keep its military strength," he insisted. Instead of calling for talks with the democratically elected government of Hamas, Kerry said: "Hamas has already won one election-we cannot allow them to win another." He ended his speech shouting several times in Hebrew, "Am Yisrael Chai-Israel lives!"
Even Vice President Biden, who at least told AIPAC that Israel should freeze new settlement activity, didn't say a word about the ongoing humanitarian crisis caused by Israel's invasion and continued blockade of Gaza. No U.S. officials, and there were hundreds at the conference, dared echo the call of the United Nations or the world community to lift the siege of Gaza.
Republican Congressman Eric Cantor was one of the most emotional speakers, portraying Israel as the victim of an evil global movement determined to wipe out Israel and all Jews. Evoking the "shivering, naked victims who were herded into the gas chambers," he wondered when it would become too late to protect Israel. "When is it too late?", he repeated over and over.
I wonder the same thing. When is it too late, I wonder, to stop Israel from destroying itself? When is it too late to tell AIPAC attendees that more violence and hatred is not the answer? When is it too late to open the hardened hearts of my people, once victims of a terrible holocaust, to realize that by occupying Palestine we have become they evil we deplore? When is it too late to restore meaning to the Hebrew term "tikkun olam" by truly working to heal the world? When is it too late for the Jews of the world to weep for the children of Gaza, recognizing that they, too, are the children of God?
I couldn't ask my questions at AIPAC. My mouth was muzzled by the sweaty hands of hate-filled staffers demanding that I "shut the f--- up." But despite AIPAC's massive funds and influence, I feel certain that more and more members of the Jewish community will step forward and refuse to be silent. I just pray it is not too late.
For information on upcoming delegations to Gaza, see www.codepinkalert.org/gaza.
238 Comments so far
Show AllThe pressure on Israel is efficient, though. For the Eurovision Song Contest, coming up on Saturday around Europe, Israel's (yeah, they are part of it for reasons unknown to us all) entry is "There must be another way", featuring a Jewish Israeli (who looks like everybody's idea of an Arab, BTW) and an Arab Israeli (who looks like everybody's idea of a European, BTW). But they are singing in Hebrew, Arabic and English and the message - see refrain - is clear.
In other words, we're knee-deep in PR territory, but the very fact that Israeli authorities felt the urge to have that kind of people represent Israel at a major European event shows me that they are feeling the international pressure. Which is already some progress, I find.
BTW, the song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN8B1xvCxI0&translated=1
.
Wake up America !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Demand a full and open investigation of AIPAC....
Demand the open trial of all of these FIFTH COLUMNIST TRAITORS..............
The United States has been corrupted by these agents, U.S. Traitors, for the State of Israel.
Stop the 6 Billion Dollars of U.S. Tax Payers' money that is to be given to Israel this year.....WHY ????????
Stop all Military Aid Programs, another 6 to 8 Billion Tax Payers' hard earned money from going to Israel....for bullets, cluster-bombs, and more nuclear missles (Israel already has oner 400 Nuclear missles aimed around the world)
P.S. we can use that money right here, in the good old United States of America.
Find and destruct these AIPAC cells of traitors in our land !!!
,
I take it Jews support a 'Jewish State' in Palestine. What percentage of Jews do that?
And who would benefit from that?
Midea Benjamin writes ..."When is it too late to restore meaning to the Hebrew term "tikkun olam" by truly working to heal the world?"
Let's see what the original meaning of 'tikkun olam' is....
http://www.zeek.net/706tohu/
Aleynu: Establishing the Divine Kingdom
The term “tikkun olam” appears first in the Aleynu prayer, which may have been written as early as the second century.
...
To understand the meaning of the term “l’taken olam” here, we need to take a step back and to examine the context in which this line appears. As indicated, the second section of the Aleynu prayer focuses on the promise of God’s ultimate sovereignty. Immediately before introducing the concept of tikkun olam, the text pleads that “idolatry will be swept away, and false gods will be utterly destroyed.” Immediately following the promise of tikkun olam, the text speaks of a time “when all the people of the world will call out God’s name.” The triumph of divine sovereignty requires the elimination of any pockets of resistance to God’s exclusive rule.
.....
In short, tikkun olam refers to fixing or preparing the world to be ruled by Jews.
There are no "gods" only illusions and ignorance to mask the ultimate fears of an Israeli guilt complex which autodigests the Israeli soul.
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
siderealm,
thank you for sharing that after reading Criminalizing Criticism of Israel
By paul craig roberts , i googled and found this article at a respectable jewish political site. i was floored - they wholeheartedly support the bill (restricting 1st amendment rights of expression).
------------------------------------------
from...
JW Political Insider: Political Talk from James Besser in Washington,
Hate crimes bill: could 2009 be the year? Monday, April 27th, 2009
jewish-politics-ny.com/tag/local-law-enforcement-hate-crimes-prevention-act/
{You have to give this to major Jewish groups like the Anti-Defamation League: they’re persistent. A bunch of them have been lobbying for a major new hate crimes bill for more than a decade, and even though it has passed numerous votes in both Houses of Congress the measure never quite makes it into law.
This time around things could be different for the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which will come up in the House Wednesday or Thursday. The biggest reasons: a stronger Democratic majority and a president who is supporting the measure instead of promising to veto it.
To refresh your memory: the bill expands the range of existing hate crimes statutes to include victims of crimes based on sexual orientation, gender, gender identity and disability.
Guess which ones have provoked ferocious opposition from the religious right. Here’s a hint: it’s not disability.
That opposition, including the specious claim that the law would criminalize preaching from the pulpit against homosexuality, is undiminished, said Michael Lieberman, counsel to ADL’s Washington office and chair of a national hate crimes coalition. Lieberman said opponents are once again “pulling out all the stops” to beat back the legislation.
But the political environment for the bill has changed dramatically, he said.
“Last time, we needed a super-majority, because President Bush promised a veto, but President Obama has been a supporter,” he said.
Also, the Justice Department is now working actively with supporters to “tweak the bill and make it as useful to them as possible,” Lieberman said. “Attorney General Eric Holder has testified in support of it when he was deputy attorney general.”
And the bill continues to enjoy support from “every major law enforcement organization in the country,” Lieberman said.
The measure’s chances look good in the House; in the Senate, backers will have to decide whether to go for a free-standing bill or couple the hate crimes measure to other, critical legislation in an effort to thwart a possible GOP filibuster.
In addition to ADL, supports include the Reform movement, the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, the American Jewish Committee, among others.}
---------------------------------------------
looks like chilling restrictions on free speech, par for the course.
siderealm,
do you know anything about this other bill ??? HR 1966
Your Blog is a Weapon? House Bill suggests Hurting Feelings illegal
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1768
again thank you for the link...
...peace...
I had not paid attention about the other bill sponsored by Linda Sanchez, a California Blue Dog Democrat, and I am the type who should know about it because I often come off as upsetting. I may have to go back to bar fighting. ;=)
The Republicans always take this route when squeezed. The only thing they seem able to do convincingly is identify violence prone hatred and then advocate for it in the congress.
This is social warfare at its best. Section 3 is where gets creepy. Imagine, if you will, being out here in California and having to go in front of Judge Jay Bybee at the 9th Circuit Appeals Court for the charge of cyberbullying. I have written enough about that creep already to be included in an indictment under this Cyberbullying definition. Thought Police are here and you know that unpleasant thought when in court: The guy in the robe behind the bench is nearly always a Republican.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1966: (include the ":" in the link)
The Bill Follows:
H. R. 1966
To amend title 18, United States Code, with respect to cyberbullying.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
April 2, 2009
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California (for herself, Ms. KAPTUR, Mr. YARMUTH, Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD, Mrs. CAPPS, Mr. BISHOP of New York, Mr. BRALEY of Iowa, Mr. GRIJALVA, Mr. HARE, Mr. HIGGINS, Mr. CLAY, Mr. SARBANES, Mr. DAVIS of Illinois, Mr. COURTNEY, and Mr. KIRK) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
A BILL
To amend title 18, United States Code, with respect to cyberbullying.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Megan Meier Cyberbullying Prevention Act'.
SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
Congress finds the following:
(1) Four out of five of United States children aged 2 to 17 live in a home where either they or their parents access the Internet.
(2) Youth who create Internet content and use social networking sites are more likely to be targets of cyberbullying.
(3) Electronic communications provide anonymity to the perpetrator and the potential for widespread public distribution, potentially making them severely dangerous and cruel to youth.
(4) Online victimizations are associated with emotional distress and other psychological problems, including depression.
(5) Cyberbullying can cause psychological harm, including depression; negatively impact academic performance, safety, and the well-being of children in school; force children to change schools; and in some cases lead to extreme violent behavior, including murder and suicide.
(6) Sixty percent of mental health professionals who responded to the Survey of Internet Mental Health Issues report having treated at least one patient with a problematic Internet experience in the previous five years; 54 percent of these clients were 18 years of age or younger.
SEC. 3. CYBERBULLYING.
(a) In General- Chapter 41 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
`Sec. 881. Cyberbullying
`(a) Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
`(b) As used in this section--
`(1) the term `communication' means the electronic transmission, between or among points specified by the user, of information of the user's choosing, without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received; and
`(2) the term `electronic means' means any equipment dependent on electrical power to access an information service, including email, instant messaging, blogs, websites, telephones, and text messages.'.
(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 41 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new item:
`881. Cyberbullying.'.
First they trot out their kids and then they sneak in the kicker that it is really applying to John Q. Public. I think I am going back to bar fighting.
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Get your licks in now because Rahm Emmanuel is about to make criticism of Israel's murdering police state against the law. Get over to counterpunch and read paul craig roberts latest column:
http://counterpunch.org/roberts05072009.html
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Medea, thanks for having the courage to say these things. Also for the courage to be roughed up at AIPAC. You inspire me to be brave, too, on behalf of every person my tax dollars are used to brutalize.
I'm not impressed by Medea Benjamin and the bravery she demonstrated by trying to obstruct a conference before she got tossed out. Nor do I care what she thinks is the true meaning of the phrase "tikkun olam." The Israeli offensive in Gaza was justified by the thousands of missiles and mortars shot into Israel. That the Arabs are poor marksmen doesn't make their intent any less murderous. If someone was shooting at me I'd shoot back with every intent to kill him.
The people of Gaza support Jewish genocide. They can all die in their ridiculous parody of democracy.
"The Israeli offensive in Gaza was justified by the thousands of missiles and mortars shot into Israel."
Not true. Never thousands and home-made pipe-guns not missiles and mortars. There was a truce which had held for months until the IDF broke it--and broke it without warning. Worse, the whole ghastly slaughter was politically reminiscent of the Falklands fiasco in the '80s. The Israeli elections were coming up and Tzipi Livni was looking at going down to defeat at the hands of the far-right of Netanyahu and Lieberman (now, there's an unreconstructed racist of the Reinhardt Heydrich variety!). So, attack Ghaza unprovoked (the cease-fire was being respected by the Ghazans, remember) and demonstrate that Livni could be as much of a fascist warmonger as Lieberman and Netanyahu. Sadly, the Israeli people are now buying that--although they still weren't buying Livni. Makes one wonder just what Israelis want in the way of blood, these days.
Rainborowe
It is very clear that jews of any sort: aipac or sephardic, ashkenazi, zionist, talmudic or any of 100 or more variations are not godly and definitely not good for the continuation of life on this planet earth. They suck up all the money, leech after your wife, downsize your job, rob the treasury and prattle endlessly about how you should listen to them "for your own good" because they have been chosen by god to lead you to ruin. Thanks but no thanks. Medea Benjamin is a mensch who understands very clearly what the problem is and is brave enough to go against the dictates of her rabbi.
Medea Benjamin is love...
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Siderealm--
You left out about them killing Christian babies to use their blood in their weird rituals.
Rainborowe
So get rid of the Jews for good eh? Nicely put. Schmuck.
zmann: I will change my mind when you stop killing Palestinians and get out of Israel. And if you really don't identify with these people then let's see some effort to get them out of Israel by all the other Z'mann's in your synagogue. Doing nothing and arguing for the continuation of murder by your family living in Israel and in other places is not going to cut the mustard. You need to start criticizing from within your synagogue. You have to publicly denounce the killers you are providing comfort for within your religion. You have to out them and rid yourselves of the horror of 85% of your family population in Israel wanting to kill innocent helpless people. Stop hiding murderers under your skirts and cassocks.
Right now here on this site you are promoting further murder of innocent Palestinians. Don't you have something more important to do like raising your children to know that the Nakba was worse than your treasured holocaust and that your very own religious zealots supported the war crimes and kept killing innocents for 61 years? Get some pride. You can become a human being if you try hard enough.
siderealm said:
"Right now here on this site you are promoting further murder of innocent Palestinians."
TJ says:
Your attack on zmann is unfair and untrue. He is a progressive who deplores genocide and one of the most reasonable posters on this site. Since you did not provide a quote, I assume you have none to back up your claim. I would ask you to apologize and retract your baseless venom.
And siderealm, when one paints with so wide a brush, one often gets a lot of paint on oneself.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
No I think the paint is tossed by you but you threw it into the wind.
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
So you can't fathom the distinction aye?
My objection is the possibly illegal funding of AIPAC by wall street crooks like Bernard Madeoff, designed to over arm Israel and destabilize the region.
Your desire is what? To have a Mel Gibson Tirade?
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Thanks.
Me? I have never killed Palestinians, and I have never been to, nor do I really want to go to Israel. I'm not religious, and I haven't belonged to a synagogue in 10 years. And I have no family in Israel.
Actually on this site, I am promoting the Palestinians' right to resist Israeli occupation with violence, and have been for months now. I am a long way away from having any children, and personally I think the Partition of India was far worse than the Nakba, and since the death toll from the Holocaust is reportedly around 12 million, roughly half non-Jews, I don't think the Nakba was worse than that either. I have also been railing against religious zealotry on here for quite some time too, from any and all religions. Get a grip on yourself fool. And since you don't seem to think Jews are human beings (sounds like what the Nazis thought), why don't you try to gain some humanity?
Thanks for the commentary zmann. Hitler killed 12-20 million Russians who never seem to get any press in the West. see William Mandel's works in the Pacifica Archives website. I love Jews and fear for them. They need to take the worldwide disaffection with their actions (which they take as proudly identified Jews) seriously.
I am having trouble understanding your 5th sentence. Are you saying "pre"-occupation with violence or are you meaning or are you counseling Palestinians to escalate their violence? If they resist they get slaughtered like recently. You had to mean something else. ...
otherwise, this:
So it's just violence you are promoting and you don't give a damn as long as you can watch a good fight? Arm the Palestinians with nukes and then the fight is fair.
Encouraging a rumble? What are you trying to say?
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
I didn't think it was unclear, but let me try to clarify: The Palestinians, like viciously oppressed peoples everywhere, have every right to resist, with violence if they deem it necessary. Israel has the duty to cease attacking a helpless civilian population. I emphasized the violence part to show that just because I am Jewish does not mean I automatically take the side of Israel on this. If Israel acts like a tyrant, and it is, it should expect no less than violence until it ceases to be a tyrant.
I have a Big problem with those who encourage violence in any form. By your advocation of violence you are assuring that many more Palestinians will be killed. You might be able to understand the point this way: You get arrested at a demonstration and you start fighting cops and they decide to kill you and the 10 people standing with you to make a point that you don't go against the police. That is the only point the Israelis have and they have repeated it for 61 years. Your advocation of violence in this way ignores any peaceful solution. Do you see that?
You are throwing gasoline on a fire and watching comfortably from your own safe haven. Encouraging the fight is societal arson. I would be happy if you would take a more activist role in exploring peace. What I hear from you is a form of wild-eyed anarchy like we saw in Seattle at the World Trade event a few years ago. This is the politics of Ruckus and is nothing more than children behaving badly because they can afford to do it. It solves nothing and is ruining many lives in the process. We all have to grow beyond the glory of play yard politics. Eventually someone gets hurt.
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
If you say so. Non-violent civil disobedience can work in one's own country when it is relatively democratic and somewhat practices the rule of law. I doubt it can work when under foreign occupation where you have more of a chance of being killed when drinking tea with your family than you do while taking up the fight. Dude, I don't like violence. But what makes you think Israel will stop slaughtering Palestinians if they stop resisting? Israel broke the truce brokered with Hamas, remember, Hamas kept to it.
What were the remnants of post-holocaust Judaism supposed to do? No western country wanted them. For the surviving Jews of Europe the world was divided into two places: one where they could not live, the other where they could not go.
If it comes to a choice between the survival of your own children and the rights of others, who would sacrifice their children?
The difference between America and Israel is that Americans were more successful at the ethnic cleansing of the land we stole. We murdered 90% of the Indians. Do those who advocate the law of the return for the Palestinians also advocate giving Georgia back to the Cherokees? Massachusetts back to the Wampanoags, upstate NY to the Iroquois?.
Who would bring their families into a war zone and use their own kids as human shields? Every 'immigrant' coming to Palestine (claiming 'Jewish' heritage) is doing exactly that. Even Americans are not stupid enough to bring their families along when they invade and occupy foreign countries. Even when their victims are virtually helpless, without even a military to defend their country, most Americans do not 'settle' in conquered and occupied lands.
And let's settle this question about the European atrocities - genocide - committed in the Americas - most of us didn't even know about these genocides until our families moved here. So please stop blaming us - we didn't write American propaganda, and few immigrants were aware of how the US (and the rest of the Americas) were conquered. There was no internet - and the enlightenment was just getting under way. It was a far different world than that which evolved after WWII. The sad part is that the same atrocities were committed almost immediately after the world said 'Never Again!' - never didn't last very long. Or maybe they just meant 'never the Germans again' since double standards are so popular in the west...
So the prevailing question of my childhood was "Why did everybody hate the Jews so much?" If they were not welcome anywhere in the world, you'd think they'd reflect on why people hated them, no matter where they went - that's what a normal person might do. And it wasn't just the 'western world' that didn't want them - this happened in other regions as well. Other civilian prisoners - survivors - went home and were welcomed - but not the Jews. They were driven out, with a vengeance. Just like what they've been doing to the Palestinians. Is there a clue here? (And I'm not being sarcastic - my family lived and died under Nazi occupation, and in the camps. This was and is a very real question for me, ever since I was about 8 years old.)
What is it about arrogance that makes people hate you, just because you claim to be 'chosen by god' - whose god, by the way? Not mine. But that was also Hitler's claim - so who stole the claim from whom? I know I wouldn't want a self-proclaimed racist/supremacist living in my neighborhood... maybe it's the Jewish reputation that's at the root of this problem. Maybe it's the Judaic claim to superiority that drives people mad. But I know it isn't racism, or that egregious slur of 'anti-Semitism' so popular these days. I don't go around asking people if they even have gods, let alone which ones! I judge them on their behavior - as do most decent people. So how would anyone even know which people were Jews? (Isn't that why the Nazis made them wear those stars on their clothes? So they could be identified?) Something here just doesn't add up. And don't blame it on other religions - Christians were/are equal-opportunity exterminators, no matter where they went. So what is it? Do Jews ever ask themselves that question? Or is THAT the problem?
There are other ways to live with people besides genocide.
Joe
So what is it that you are suggesting--that you impose the same inhumanity upon others because your tribe also has known the experience?
Does that make it okay for you?
When do we know when it already is too late?
Too late for the US governement to serve anything other than the military industrial Wall St masters of the universe anyway.
Aipac should be registered as a foreign entity. It works only for the purpose of Zionist Israel, the "Jewish State".
I'm sick of these people pulling their influence over the U.S. Geez, there is only 2% of these people. Don't let 2% dictate to the rest of us!!!
Medea had every right to protest outside the Aipac conference. It is largely a Jewish campaign to shut free speech up. They have legislation in the works to make it illegal to call Israel a fascist nazi state, although that is what they have become. They don't want anyone to criticize their slaughters. We are all suppose to be bowing down to these so-called "chosen" people. If I were Jewish I would be doing everything possible to stop these people, as they are making all Jews look bad, just as Bush, Obama, and their kind make all Americans look bad.
Its almost as if these Jewish zionists have been indoctrinated and brainwashed from birth that somehow they are above all others, and that they are the world's victim, when in reality, they have been perpetrating heinous crimes on humanity themselves. People need to understand that whatever "group" they identify with, they are not special. Nobody is special. These zionists need to let go of their hate, paranoia and just join the human race instead of insisting they are special somehow.
Why not just ask, Who Will Stop AIPAC Before It Is Too Late?
Who will stop "AIPAC Jews...," seems redundant and inflammatory.
Since Medea is clearly smart and more, mayhap this is quite intentioned.
Otherwise it kinda begs the question, What? As opposed to AIPAC Catholics?
PS. I have a cool word for my fellow posters. Logomachy.
I like GoldenMean's words so much I echo them with a repost:
GoldenMean May 6th, 2009 12:39 pm
Thank you Medea for being fearless and forthright in the face of friendly fascism...
Your words and actions resonate with honesty, intergity, and wisdom...
May you continue to inspire and awaken others to the uncomfortable truth...
Your courage and brilliant choice of tactics bring humor and light to dispell the darkness...
And I repost some of Iowablackbird's words, as indeed Code Pink is a terrific group of political activists:
iowablackbird May 6th, 2009 4:34 pm
great article medea - thank you..
also thanks common dreams for posting media's comments. it's rare to find such courageous people as the code pink activists, who day after day confront the system in such a powerful way. it's reassuring that common dreams still publishes unpopular voices that would never see the light of day in a world that tries to marginalize and sanitize all alternative opinions.
Thank you for valuing my words enough to repost them here...
It is comforting to know that our thoughts and ideas do indeed influence one another...
This is a healing and empowering and enlightening process... A praxis of expression and reflection...
I hope that you post more often... So synchronicity may play a greater role in the sharing of thoughts...
Peace, light, & love...
Some of the readers MAY connect the dots. A NEW PEARL HARBOR, the events of 911, War against Muslims, a rapid increase in West Bank sttlements, a crushing of the Palestinians including bombing houses, drones in Iraq and Afghanistan, torture and now a whimper from the mass media. Nice country the United States of Zion.
Media Benjamin, who I had the good fortune to hear live in Binghamton, NY, in defense of Ithaca's St. Patrick's 4 is a self-loving Jew who is trying to save Israel, the Palestinians, and all of the rest of us.
In my observations over the years, most Jews are average Americans, but they are disproportionately skewed toward the best and the worst of us. I say this at the risk of being racist, but believe it is accurate.
One person's realist is another person's racist. It is all in the perception. We must move beyond religion or perish quickly. We need a Saviour to deliver us from all saviors. Christ as the being who saves humankind from sin and its consequences is same kind of wrongheaded bull. Consequences are never escaped. Bombs come from people against people. We need to confront ourselves and not forgive. Reality, in other words...
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Blind support for Israel among American Jews will become expensive down the road. Yes, AIPAC and similar idiotic groups have a political dominance now, but the ruinous policies they advocate on behalf of Zionists is putting the US into deeper international political trouble. At some point, when the US starts scraping bottom politically and economically, there's going to be a search for scapegoats. If I were Jewish, that word, "scapegoat", would make me cringe. Like it or not, believe it or not, there will be a search for a scapegoat. The Jewish leaders who helped drive the US off the cliff will be first, then other Jews. It's not pretty, and certainly not fair, but there is time left for US Jews to do the right thing and shut AIPAC and similar groups down. US Jews offer a strong voice for progressive policies in our country, and I for one do not look forward to their fate if the current path is maintained.
Well, Gus, Vern, armybrat and most others on this site, it's plain to me that you're all the subhuman vermin I've always known you to be. You're all in the same mold as the Nazis whose only consistent policy was hatred for Jews. In the case of Gus and Vern (among others), they're making veiled threats about killing Jews (scapegoats). Medea Benjamin is the same trash as y'all and so is the "grassroots" Common Dreams. It's the Gazans who shoot missiles and sniper bullets into Israel with the intent to kill any Jews they can. That's not how Israel does things. You know all that but continue to pass your long discredited lies along to each other.
"It's the Gazans who shoot missiles and sniper bullets into Israel with the intent to kill any Jews they can. That's not how Israel does things."
The Ghazan "rockets" are no more than home-made pipe-bombs, for God's sake, fired occasionally and not at all in the truce which the Israelis broke to reduce and already dying Ghaza to rubble. The Israelis have all the blanket-bombing weaponry the USA gives them. Most of the dead were unarmed civilians, women and children and old men, most crushed when their houses collapsed on them or the Israeli gunboat fired its guns directly into them at close range standing off from The Beach camp. Many others died in the hospitals because the hospitals had been prevented from bringing in any kind of medical supplies for at least 2 years or more. And the worst was that many of those Israeli soldiers were ultra-religious "settlers" from the West Bank led by ultra-nationalist Rabbis who were egging them on to the kind of Messianic slaughter of their neighbors described in the Books of the Prophets.
I suggest you read Ha'Aretz, the issues for December, January, February. They have an English online edition, very well written, if you don't read Hebrew, although you may find the English a bit hard.
Or you could just remain in ignorance and hurl expletives in bad English from your sewer.
Rainborowe
The writing on the wall.
Medea, to bad you and Code Pink didn't help get Cindy Sheehan elected in San Francisco. Giving Nancy Pelosi her walking papers would have sent a clear message to the scum bag zionists that business as usual is over in San Francisco, oh well. And Joe Biden is a slime bag zionist along with the little turd Rahm Emanuel who willsell out America to their zionist paymasters.
Thanks Gatos. I was told that I was mistaken earlier when I spoke on this matter. Some people don't take one's actions seriously like you and I do. MB needs to be consistent and clear about who she really supports. Here's also what I'm referring to:
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/04/25/which-side-are-you-on/
"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." G W Bush
Someone else who was consistent and clear about which side we must be on.
And here's another:
"I don't do nuance." G W Bush
What will the criminally insane behind-the-scenes Zio-zealots who staged 9-11 and are still running the U.S./Israeli alliance do to deal with all the anti-genocide sentiment being directed at Israel?
I worry that they hearken back longingly to the good old days of Arab terrorists taking Israeli athletes hostage (they killed 11 Israeli athletes) during the Munich Summer Olympics back in 1972. I worry that they will conclude that a good many ordinary Jews (perhaps Israeli citizens within Israel's borders) must now be sacrificed in another 9-11 like production to swing international sympathies back to their advantage.
They likely aren't nearly as enthusiastic about this option as they were about demolishing the World Trade Centers (members of the Jewish community who worked in the towers received an email headsup warning not to report to work that day), but they are thoroughly capable, and if they conclude the international PR predicament is serious enough to warrant it, they'll do it.
Ewww, look what I found here in the sewer. Someone was asking me for examples of you know what. This one good enough for you?
and the more the outrage grows--without justice, while there is increased economic suffering and people see their money flowing to Israel and the bankers, Sir, you ain't seen nothing yet. So, rather than pompous attempts to suppress it, I suggest you recognize how ugly and exposive this potentially can be in terms of blowback. There will be no more demonization of the Arab to deflect accountability.
Why don't you report back to AIPAC headquarters and ask the Supervisor of Interns for a new script -- something a little more inspired than just screeching the same tired litany of anti-Semitism charges -- nobody's buying it, Mike.
Kurt Kurt Kurt, that's so hurtful. I only do this for the love.
...of money
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Are we still debating whether this page is laced with antisemitic insinuation?
Are you implying that only one group of humans can be greedy bastards?
It's too easy to be distracted and diverted by labels. Words are important, but actions more so. Look to the action, not the labeling that attempts to justify or cover over crimes of humanity in it's name. Murder, torture, rape, any violence done in the name of an abstraction is still murder, torture, rape, and violence, and NO abstraction justifies it, ever.
As I see history, the "abstractions" generally cover up armed robbery.
Joe
Well said!
Zionism is Nazism. They know that they are America's enemies. They are bribing or smearing our legislators wholesale to shut up and let them demonize our patriots and drag our republic into the ashcan of history with them. The recent utterance from the Zionist-controlled Dept. of Fatherland Security are evidence of their sayanim doing their utmost to label/stigmatize patriots Americans as "extremists" in the eyes of police agencies across the country is evidence enough. The threat to to use federal police to enforce Jew hatred/control of Americans is written into the latest law. The precedent for this is the 1917 Bolshevick Jew seizure of power in Russia...they did'nt just murder the Romanov family...they decreed a "hate crime" of anti-semitism and used it to round up, torture and murder thousands upon thousands of mostly Christian peasants. AIPAC is only one agency tasked to spit at/on freedom for Americans. A president who cared about America would declare AIPAC an ongoing criminal enterprise, padlock the place and put it's adherenents in a cell adjacent that of arch back-stabber Jonothon Pollard...oh, and add the known jackass, Bebe Natanyahoo to the list.
...any antisemites here?
I take complete umbrage with the term Jew when used to discuss the problems with Israel. It's not a problem with Judaism. It's not a religious problem. It's a political problem created by Zionists of all political stripes, religions and creeds. Some of the biggest Zionist supporters are evangelical Christians for Heaven's sake so let's cut out the religious angle and dwell on the political and secular actions that are preventing peace in that area of the Middle East. The US must first cease with the constant support of egregious actions taken by any of the parties in the area. In most recent times that would be unquestioning support for Israel. Any country that pours weapons into a destabilized war zone must accept the responsibility for the lives lost by the use of those weapons. In that respect the US and certain Middle East countries are just as blameworthy as Israel and Palestinian "terrorists". I use that term loosely because it's quite obvious that it is a negative loaded word and it really depends on the eye of the beholder just like "beauty". Unless world powers start leveling the playing field by asserting American complicity in the crimes committed in the Middle East in the hope of shaming them into being more even handed then peace will never become reality.
Why not? Israel is the one that calls itself a "Jewish State"!!!!
I don't see people upset when they speak about the "muslim" problem.
Can you imagine someone saying "I take complete umbrage with the term Muslim when used to discuss the problems with the Middle East"?
"Some of the biggest Zionist supporters are evangelical Christians..." Chances are the evangelicals only support Jews in order to get them to return to Israel. Only then will Jesus return. I forget the details, but I believe it was Pat Robertson who was caught supporting a Jewish group. It was later revealed that his intention was to do just as I described, to help usher in the 2nd coming. So all in all I'd say yes, it's ALL religious.
One who criticizes Israel is not an Anti-Semite.
However, if I were Medea Benjamin, my stomach would be turning at all the people commenting here about how the Jews control this, and AIPAC controls that: The Government, The Corporations, The White House.
I've heard those claims before, but I'm not going to say where, lest I be disregarded as another Jew exploiting the Holocaust.
Before the lot of you go on about how one labels any one who criticizes Israel an Anti-Semite, perhaps consider that labels that are running through your head for me right about now. Racist, Apartheid Lover, Exploiter of the Holocaust.
It's not that one can't criticize Israel, they can. They must, as they must with any country. But no one goes on about how the Evangelicals control the government, or the Catholics control corporations, or the Muslims control this and the Hindus control that.
Allow me to take a break from controlling the media, for just a moment, to tell you that comments like many of the ones above are EXACTLY why Jews are scared of another holocaust.
But never mind you, disregard the aforementioned. I'm probably just being paid by the Israeli government to post here.
As I noted elsewhere these comments are thick with hatred of Jews, and yet people will write innocently "show me where!" if you point it out.
Now we all understand that the intertubes are a disinhibition fest where people say what they really think and not what they think is polite.... and of course that's why these forums are useful. We get an idea of what we are up against in the world.
But in another sense most of this discourse is distorting. It takes a strong stomach to appear here and express a moderate opinion and be insulted as an agent of Israel or whatever other epitaphs people like to throw around. It's sort of a case study for why peace is so hard. It's just so much more satisfying to vent your spleen and shoot a gun.
The vast majority of normal Jews (not me, perhaps not you) would hear the kind of discourse taking place here and say in an instant, "thank God for AIPAC! I hope those Israelis hit 'em even harder next time!"
And how could you blame them... it's ugly and angry.
So what are forums like this good for, in the context of peace making? I mean obviously they are good for mobilizing people through anger... and outrage has its uses, but it also has its dangers.
Perhaps it depends on whether you think the world suffers from a deficit of outrage and anger or a deficit of calm and communication.
I'm sure that the majority of people here aren't interested in speaking to the majority of American Jews (or aren't very smart about it!) I wonder what they would say if they thought about communication as dialog?
Well, the online world is no place for dialog, as we know. That happens over tea and conference tables.
Just above this post of yours mike is 1 post blaming jews for their government's actions. The rest of the posts are complaining about the actions of the Israeli gov't or the actions of aipac.
You're delusional, or being paid by aipac.
Are those my only 2 choices?
"As I noted elsewhere these comments are thick with hatred of Jews,"
But its ok that Jews hate? You don't think its hateful when American Jews like Rosen and Weizman, and Harman, are committing espionage against the U.S.? This is hate!
You don't consider it hateful when 5 Israeli's were caught dancing and celebrating across the bay from the twin towers when they were hit by an Inside Terror job on 911?
You don't consider it hate, when the Israeli's attack the U.S.S. Liberty, killing dozens of Americans, then tried to blame it on Muslims? You don't consider it hate, that our Government is so controlled by these parasite Israelis, that billions of our dollars go to support this rogue "nation" every year, WHILE 50 million Americans go without health care?
You don't consider it hate that Israeli's are controlling our President? Afterall it was Avigdor Lieberman who has decided that Pakistan and Afghanistan were areas where the U.S. needed to increase its military operations, and put Iran on the back burner...now, that is exactly what the U.S. president is doing isn't it?
You don't consider it hate to control the U.S. government to do Israel's bidding? Which includes murdering hundreds of thousands M.E. Muslims?
The list goes on. Stop the victim crap! its getting old.
What more do you people want? You get your trash like Rosen and Weisman off, NOT EVEN A TRIAL!! If that was a Muslim would Obama have called it off?
I could go on, but its such a waste of time.
POOOOOOr pooor Israel!!!! Ahhhhh, they want to murder babies without any criticism...pooooor poor Israel. People are practicing their free speech, but poor Israel doesn't like it when people say they are fascists!! Ahhhhhhhhhh
You do sound very angry... unfortunately not everything you are angry about is connected to that thing we call "reality."
Its what Israel DOES, and Aipac DOES, not who they are that ruffles people the most!
People would be very much interested in "speaking to the majority of American Jews", but it gets very hard to do when they consistently play the victim card, and any criticism is met with "anti-semite".
So, at least 90% of the world looks at Israel now as baby killers, genociders, etc, yet most of the Jews don't UNDERSTAND WHY???
Get off your high pedestal. When a group of people insists they are the "chosen", slaughter without conscience, use covert operations within other countries, largely control media, banking....etc, what do you expect?
If the Jew wants to be the beacon of humanity, THEN ACT LIKE IT!!!
If you look at the middle east it is the average Jew that is causing the problems! They are the ones that have stated "they will take the rest of the world down with them, if they go down", and other inflammatory garbage. Nobody is trying to wipe them OUT!!!!
Now, there is legislation in the works to shut up the free speech, all at the bequest of Israel and American Jews. We are not suppose to liken Israel's actions to Fascist Nazi. They don't like this. Even though that is what it is.
Its like there is a whole set of rules for Jews, and then another set for the rest of us. I'm sick of pampering these people. They need to own up to their crimes, just like the rest of us.
I count in this post 1,2,3,4,5,6,7.... about 7 historically familiar antisemitic accusations against Jews, and a number of other absurd over generalizations and religious misunderstandings.
But that's OK!!! No problem with that. Maybe these accusations are true!
Of course it would be interesting if these 7 or so accusations were just as true in 1880, 1920, 1935 and 2009. For example, how is it that Jews have controlled media and banking and operated a secret world controlling cabal operating by its own rules outside of civilized control for 150 years?
Does it seem more likely that this has existed in reality, or that this idea has existed over all that time, and gets reinvented and redeployed as needed by Jew haters over time, and now once again here?
And, more importantly, if we have a world banking conspiracy, why the HELL haven't I been getting my checks?!
You obviously don't understand economics. Also, 9 out of the 12 Fed Reserves are headed by Jews. Also, check out some of the "powerful" banking heads: Bernanke, Geithner, Rubin, Volckner, Greenspan...and on and on. See the pattern?
You tell me...Why do the Jews always get control of the money? Most Jews are not semitic by the way. Most people are anti-zionist..the extremist ideology that many Jews, and fundamentalist christians, are indoctrinated into from birth. Both groups have a "specialness" to them. The Fundamentalist Christians liken it to being born again, the Jews of course spew the "chosen ones" philosophy. God loves the Jews the most, but the fundamentalist Christians have first row seats in heaven, because they are "born again".
Mike, get off your pedastal and join the rest of us. Why is that so hard for you?
Jews are 2% of the US population, and of that 2%, what % supports the severe policies of AIPAC? At most, you have 1.5% of the population dragging the rest of the country down the sewer on behalf of Zionists. That makes me angry that such a repugnant group controls my country, and is running it into the ground. The time is coming that this will be reckoned with, unless the Zionists think they can partition the US into a ghetto and manipulate/torture us like the Palestinians. I don't hold a grudge against Jews, that's stupid--people are people. I DO hold a grudge against Zionists, who are people with an extremist agenda whose interests conflict with those of my society and country. I fear that Jews will suffer for the actions of Zionists, which would be wrong.
And how much of a percentage of the population are the Wall Street executives, and how badly is that tiny as hell minority dragging down the US, on behalf of their own greed? Ditto with health insurance and pharmaceutical executives and our healthcare, private security and prison firms and the justice system, etc.
Actually I have read in many, many places that "the Evnagelicals control the government, the Catholics control (or at least collude with) the corporations, the Muslims control this and the Hindus control that". I've seen those things or similar things all over the media for the last several decades. In fact, I cannot believe that you have not seen such things all around you. I am leaving aside whether these claims are valid since that was not your point. But why not? Evangelicals do exert influence in excess of their numbers in the US. Religious fundamentalists of all kinds from the US Christian Right to the Israeli settler's movement to the Wahhabists, all exert above and below ground controls on their political situations. Hindu fanatics have been running India for at least 10 years. The Pakistani ICI is completely infiltrated with Taliban. Where have you been, Canadian Voice?
None of my claims are racist and none are conspiracy theories. So, for me to claim Israel and AIPAC exert undue influence to the point of dangerous control in the US is not racist or a conspiracy theory either. It's point of view backed by facts. But for you to claim that only "the Jews" are singled out for this kind of point of view, backed by facts, is, itself, a conspiracy theory. It's also paranoid and an expression of the knee-jerk cult of eternal victimhood that is always brought to bear on this issue. The Jews have been victims for centuries, true and there can never be any excuse for this. So have the Roma, so were the native americans, so were native minorities in Indonesia and the Phillipines, so were the Hmong, so are the Uighurs, so are the tribes of Darfur, so were the Armenians, so are the people of east Congo (5 million dead since the mid-90s), so were the people of South Africa, so were the black slaves of Africa brought to the US and elsewhere, so were the Irish, whose famine killed over a million while British merchant ships were filled with grain.
The crime of the Holocaust isn't that it happened to the Jews, it's that it happened at all. It wasn't a crime against the Jews it was a crime against humanity (6 million slavs, poles, russians and gypsies died too). That Jews were the target does not make the crime worse or change it's essential nature. What exposed the Jews to this horror was not a phenomenon particular to the Jews. It was totalitarianism and race hatred. These things have appeared on every continent and found victims among almost every people. They are the enemy of all decent, democratic, freedom-loving people, including the Jews. There is no historic particularity to anti-Semitism or Jewish suffering. It is one among many kinds of suffering, all wrong, all inexcusable, all immoral and all to be resisted by the rest of us. There need be no unique "Jewish" solution. To accept that there is, is to accept Hitler's idea of a unique "Jewish Question". Is there a "Jewish Question", Canadian Voice?
Not for me. Justice is indivisible. Our rights are inalienable. It doesn't matter into what culture, religion, time period or ethnic group we were born. We don't choose that. We have rights because we are human. We have choice because we are human. Jews have been talking about that and about the associated responsibilities for 2000 years. Can't Jews and the rest of us keep talking about it?
Good points, I'd add that in times past it was also the Communists who were controling everything, or the British, occasionally the French or Spanish. Once I think the Italians controlled the world, or the Medici's (spelling is off).
My favourite comment on the idea that a Jewish conspiracy exists is that if it does, it's doing a real bad job of it. (Same with the other idiots who've been said to control things, neocons, liberals, nazis, tsarists, caesars, lord protectors...)
jareilly ,
good comment. human suffering is universal and we can always choose to resist evil deeds wherever/whenever they manifest.
...peace...
Mapleleaf Jewish Guy/Gal:
Hindus in Bombay are living in running sewers underground because the Indian government can't be bothered to stop grandstanding about what a nuclear power they are.
Jews on the other hand, handed a man who has promised to NUKE Gaza the keys to their occupied land in Israel. American, Canadian, and Israeli Jews have figured how to make money on the assassinations of Palestinians in the stock market. The Bank of Israel has made an instruction guide on how to bet the market on the effects of different types of Israeli assassinations of Palestinians on the stock market in Tel Aviv.
To learn how to bet the market download this:
il-targeted-kill.pdf
from: http://sites.google.com/site/grandcommitteeofpublicsafety/files
They have relinquished their claim to being gods and have instead embraced deviltry. They have successfully modeled themselves on the Brooklyn born Kach prophet, Meir Kahane. They appear able and willing to commit nuclear suicide and take the entire planet with them to the gates of Hell. What a proud religious ethnic and racial heritage to leave in the memory of the world.
Your comparisons are lacking in the highly prized attribute of love of humanity. If you stopped identifying as a Jew your life would instantly get better. Try human being without religion or stupid ethnic/religious slavish devotion and life will get better. Imagine yourself as a human being and not a Jewish God. Many of us made that transition and now it is your turn.
salaam/shalom
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
"I found it fascinating that AIPAC's executive director Howard Kohr opened the conference admitting that there was now a huge, international campaign against the policies of Israel. He painted a picture of 30,000 people marching in Spain, Italian trade unionists calling for a boycott of Israeli products, the UN Human Rights Council passing 26 resolutions condemning Israel, an Israeli Apartheid Week that is building a global boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign."
Yes, but this to the Israelis is only proof of the world having gone mad. Proof of anti-Semitimi. Proof that the world has forgotten the Holocust and that, somehow, that's Palestine's fault. Proof that the world is daring to challenge them and having the audacity to question their self-appointed status as the Chosen People.
This statement should not be taken as encouraging or as a sign of hope but, rather, as more self-vicitimizing, more wallowing in pity, more cries of wolf and more denial.
Thanks Medea for standing up for the people of Palestine. Few Americans understand the situation. the following was submitted to our local paper.
************ Today, May 6th, is the 61st Nakba
In any contest there are winner and losers, that’s just the way it is. May 6th marks the 61st anniversary of one such contest/conflicts. To Israel it’s celebrated as Independence Day, to the Palestinians it’s the Nakba, or catastrophe. One won and one lost, that’s the way these things go, right?
Not so easy and clear cut. Just as the seeds of WWII were sown by the retributions taken against Germany after WWI, so the seeds of the conflict were planted deep and firm by the displacement and deaths of a million and a half Palestinian people in 1948 when Britain withdrew as the protectorate of Palestine.
War is never nice, you say? The seeds of 9-11 and the conflicts we’re now fighting in the Middle East were sown in 1948. It’s time Americans learn the truth and tell our government to be a true honest broker, not a special friend of Israel. Just last week charges of spying were dropped against two American Israel Public Information Committee members and one U.S. Congressperson who was implicated. The survival of Israel and justice for the people of Palestine rests in our hands.
May 15 1948 not 6!
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
,
40 or 50 years ago, we said, "Never Again, Never Again". We looked with horror at the face of Nazi evil. We swore to "NEVER FORGET" We promised to never let the Holocaust be repeated.
We are ever vigilant...........How did it happen again?????
The New monsters are us.............when did we go from the abused and murdered victims; to the abuser-murders ??????????????
,
Medea Benjamin is spot on. Every single word is true. AIPAC and its ghoulish supporters have turned Israeli victimhood into an artform, a mockery of both Palestinian and Jewish suffering !
"Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right."
Abraham Lincoln
How to take back your society from the psychopath elites:
Allow the elites to go over the edge, because this is the only way to convince a majority of USans to join the far-left cause. Let the enabling faction of elites (e.g. Demoks, O'Bamba) take credit for the maniacal destruction wreaked by the psychopaths (e.g. Repuks, AIPAC, et al).
We're fortunate that the electoral machinery is setup to allow us to vote our principles (writing in far left third party candidates) and throw all the blame for the psychopathic destruction on the enabling elite (Demoks).
We are absolutely not liable for the damage when we vote third party. The Demoks own it via their decision to play the role of enablers. Please report any flaw you may discover in this reasoning.
Nevertheless if one feels guilt in inadvertently helping the most worst evil (Repuks/Likuds) when voting third party, one may further erase that guilt by doing what we should be doing anyway: Exercising our economic/civic responsibility, by voting third party (far left principled, people-oriented) in all our exchange/association, which effectively starves the elites down small enough so they can drown themselves with chutzpah in their coffee cups.
Who will stop AIPAC jews before its too late? Jewish peace activists like Medea and myself. We have a responsibility to rise up and speak out for the oppressed. Anyone who's not jewish and tries to speak out against Israeli atrocities is destroyed by the media jews. you know, the same media jews who destroyed catholic priests and catholicism when the pope was critical of the invasion of middle eastern countries after 911. btw i was just kidding about being jewish.
CQ from Maine
It is the duty of every Jew--chosen by God as he or she is--to be a good person. Jews forget that at their peril. Supported by radical Christian fundamentalists and radical Zionists of their own right wing, Israel has made a pact with the devil-- land for constant strife. We have to believe that President Obama will ultimately stand up to AIPAC and the current government--or baring that the current government will fail to bring any kind of peace or order to the lives of all the decent Israelis both Arab and Jewish and will quickly lose the confidence of its people.
I believe the declaration of independence said "people will long suffer". I do not expect to see change any time soon.
great article medea - thank you..
also thanks common dreams for posting media's comments. it's rare to find such courageous people as the code pink activists, who day after day confront the system in such a powerful way. it's reassuring that common dreams still publishes unpopular voices that would never see the light of day in a world that tries to marginalize and sanitize all alternative opinions.
the zionists in israel are living in an alternate reality that completely denies any other narrative of events unfolding in palestine. this absolute complete denial of reality and lack of empathy for other people is striking, stunning - un believable.
what belief system could be so all encompassing, to such a degree, that all alternative interpretations of events are decried as not factual and alternative voices are suspiciously viewed as haters, anti semites ?
that's powerful LSD backed w/ a punch, the military support of christian US taxpayers and the complicity of multi-national media outlets.
what's so evil about this zionist state is it's willing complicity in repeatedly committing acts of violence against unarmed (realistically) civilian populations.
if the brits can ban michael savage for his inflammatory speech, there has to be a way to reform american election laws - to severly limit foriegn governments ability to use political action groups to lobby US politicians.
this political action committee actively spies on US citizens while successfully redirecting US foreign policy through campaign contributions and active lobbying.
didn't the US government actually fabricate evidence in the 1950's - when we were obsessed w/ soviet spies ? i mean we have live spies from israel in the US today. where's the outrage ?
also i liked the quote, very telling ....
"Shut the f--- up. Shut the f--- up." one staffer yelled, red-faced and sweating as he ran beside me. "This is not the place to be saying that shit. Get the f--- out of here."
...peace...
Right on! Dual citizenships need to be purged from our government and the first to go is Rahm Emmanuel.
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Now Is The Time For All True Jews To Step Forward And Demand Justice For The Palestinian People
"Who are the True Jews?"
"The True Jew always sides with the slave, never with the slave-master."
"What makes the Palestinian the slave?"
"Having one's homeland occupied by another people is to be enslaved."
"And what makes the Israeli the slave-master?"
"Being the occupier."
"How will a call by True Jews for justice for the Palestinian people help resolve the Mideast conflict?
"No longer will the Jewish settler-state Israel be able to get away with its claim that opposition to its subjugation of the Palestinian people is based on anti-Semitism."
"Why is that so important?"
"Those of us who have held back from supporting the Palestinian people for fear of being labeled anti-Semitic or a self-hating Jew can now step forward and do the right thing."
"The outcome being?"
"By popular demand the White House and Congress will be forced to recognize that the Palestinian cause is just."
"And then what?"
"Jewish colonizer and colonized Palestinian sit down together and work things out."
"Based on?"
"One equals one."
"Anything else?"
"Liberty and justice for all."
The world will never know "liberty and justice for all" as long as there are religions which dictate the manner in which one group behaves toward the others.
Israel is the "Jewish state" and make their claims based upon a text with dubious origins, who's antiquity has been shown to be only fairly recent, and much of what is left is subject to interpretation. Israel would not exist if it were not for the Christians, who have even less authenticity than the Jews, since their entire establishment is based upon hearsay. Their history toward others reflects the Jews; and the Muslims have worked exceptionally hard to "catch up with the other two" in their disdain of others and their willingness to "kill for God".
In fact there is no religion in any form of practice that does not have a history of violence and the destruction of others; and there never will be.
Until humanity is able to "outgrow" its need for 'religion', liberty and justice for all will only be a dream, that others are willing to kill and die for; if they can be the one who defines "liberty and justice for all"..........
Most Americans seem to be unable to agree on a definition of "liberty and justice for all"-------------------and America has a history of a "willingness to shed oceans of blood" for "liberty and justice of all".............
Too simple.
Israel is the anti-colonialist uprising against the British empire that succeeded where other indigenous peoples (eg. the Palestinians) failed or succeeded too late.
But sure, now that the anti-colonialist Zionist uprising against British imperialism has institutionalized itself for 60 years it has become the local colonial power and would do well to recognize that it too must abandon its local empire in the West Bank, just as the British empire was forced to do by economics and local insurrections.
Unfortunately, unlike the British who withdrew across an ocean... the Israelis are going to be there in their native land, just across the fence.
No denying that will be hard for the Palestinians to accept... but that will be the price of peace, if they want it.
There is nothing "native" enough about Palestine that allows the Israelis to do what they're doing. They have no right to be there in this manner -- and I doubt they'll be there forever, once justice sets in.
It is easy to figure out, Medea, just look at history.
Israel is the historical land owned by the Israelis. It was given to them free of charge by Yaweh, the God of War and Weather, several thousand years ago. Yahweh's only conditions were that, as the Israelis advanced, they would kill every living thing and destroy all but a few chosen cities. On a couple of occasions when they kept a few animals alive to sacrifice to Yaweh, He punished them severely for breaking his order and leaving something alive.
Now, several thousand years after having been dispersed from the land, they have returned. Is it any surprise that they began cleansing their homeland just as they did in the time of the prophets? They still worship the same neurotic, bloody-minded god that they did in the old days. Not only that, but He has grown from a local war god to the great God of all.
Now, understanding this, it should be easy to figure out what is going on in the Middle East. Israel is always right! God told them so. Any people squatting on the land that they slaughtered their way across a few thousand years ago are to be destroyed.
As Yahweh's Chosen People, they can do no wrong, so don't question whom they kill or enslave, they are just following the mandate of their god.
With the USA pledged to give them their annual tithe of $3 billion plus in advanced military hardware, plus their own arsenal of nuclear weaponry, they should be able to carry out the will of God fairly easily.
Any questions, class? You can read all about it in the Old Testament, and in the writings of some of the modern rulers of Israel. Class dismissed.
Who's this Yahweh dude? Does he have a SSN? Does he pay taxes?
Question: 'Yahweh's Chosen People' -- whose word do we have on that?
I love code pink! They are my heroes. Keep up the good work!!
Israel is going to bring the US down
The earlier the US people realise that Israel is no friend of the US the better otherwise the writing is on the wall.
Lust Greed Power Prions no cure for this mental illness.
It is so important NOT to mention the atrocities!
They scramble to cover Medea's mouth before the words get out! Bust their bubble they are living in!
Blame the AIPAC Zionists for the boycott against Israel! They drug the whole population into the fray by using "Jew Hater" and "Israel Hater" to defend their atrocities. They deferred hatred toward them, onto the whole Jewish population.
The population in the U.S. will get the same, we feel it dragging us down, and there is not a thing any of us can do to change how the MSM portrays U.S..
HOLDING THEM WRONG FOR COMMITTING ATROCITIES DOES NOT MAKE YOU A HATER OF ANY KIND.
Everybody in that room was there to feel good about themselves. That's why Medea's mouth was covered! "Not Here / Not Now / This is not the Place" These people cannot think for them selves and we don't want you putting "ideas" in their head. They are here like empty slates ready to be filled with our propaganda, not yours MEDEA!
Support Israeli draft resisters, conscientious objectors and their
organizations:
http://www.newprofile.org/english/
Anger, violence and bitterness (as well as denial) are almost always thin covers for fear and feelings of powerlessness. Mental rigidity is almost always a cover for doubt. Of course sometimes these things simply result from stupidity.
AIPAC isn't going to listen to progressive Jews; they don't have to. They are part of an apparatus that has an iron lock on the US Government. the Mossad, Shin Bet and the IDF made a conscious decision to reject international law, due proces, human rights and the basic underlying tenets of civilization decades ago. And the US and Europe have agreed to look the other way, mostly. The bodies have been piling up ever since. It may be that nothing can change this and that Israel is headed irreversibly down a horrific path of self-destruction. This path is likely to involve at least some of its 200 weaponized nuclear warheads. Which means a regional apocalypse with planetary consequences. It seems that only years-long, continent- wide military disasters are large enough to get our attention, hence Europe had to have 2 world wars before arriving at 6 decades of at least partial peace. How high will the bodycount have to go this time? How widespread the ecological and economic destruction? It appears that AIPAC and their cohort in Israel are willing to bring it down on themselves and the world rather than surrender one inch of "Eretz Israel". We'll see.
they don't have to also because progressive Jews are the exception, not the rule.
they don't have to because the progressive Jews are late in the game, not when the morality of the situation was apparent early on.
they don't have to because progressive Jews have appeared when it became obvious that Israel was endangering it's own survival - so that many of them oppose the tactics used, but not the ultimate goal.
progressive Jews would have an impact if they weren't a day late and a dollar short.
Medea Benjamin is one of my favorite people. But let's be honest - Israel has been paraded as the Homeland of the Jews, and has been supported, actively and/or passively, by the vast majority of Jews because they believed that. Now we are supposed to pretend that didn't happen.
Well, it did. Powerful Jews, in support of Israel, made sure that people were elected that went to the highest bidder, because if someone wasn't corruptible, if someone voted based on morality, they would be for rights for Palestinians. Jews sat by as people had their careers destroyed (see counterpunch.org) because they told the truth about the Middle East, and the vast majority of Jews considered the truth tellers as anti-semetic. Jews as whole sat back as cover was given to bigots, even bigots that hated Jews, as long as supported Israel. The proof is in the pudding. None of the above were a series of accidents, and none of it terribly secret.
Until the victims of Zionism, here, in the Middle East, and throughout the world, are compensated for what was done to them... only then we can put it behind us. But we can't put it behind us simply by trying to pretend that there is no responsibility of the vast and powerful group of people who promoted this. A few resisters change none of that.
I was in NYC in 2006 -- there was a lot of activity at the U.N. -- a lot of protests and rallies -- there was an enormous turnout by pro-Israel jews, who were well-organized and brought in busloads of kids, etc.
the jewish 'resistance' was also there, and I did see some angry language used towards them --
here's the thing: would the aipac types simply be 'using' the victim rap,
or do they really believe that those who disagree are anti-semitic?
I don't have a precise answer to this question -- however, I do know people among family and friends who have a deep and ancient attachment to their beliefs about Israel --
information that contradicts these very deep sentiments about Israel simply has no bearing --
a rebuttal is usually as quick and dismissive as the one Medea received, though perhaps less violent --
I think the actions of Israel with Gaza signify a sort of internalized
collective trauma -- the same way the terror of an abusive childhood sometimes results in adults who abuse
there are various characteristics that illustrate this circumstance --
the lying, the need for control --
it is an incredible shame and there are no easy answers --
I feel very grateful for the work of conscious individuals like Medea
dubs--
Just a couple of points:
You seem to assume that pro-Israel Jews are the same as AIPAC fanatics. In fact I can't think of any Jews who are not pro-Israel. There may be a few but a very few. Medea Benjamin, as her article makes clear, is pro-Israel, as are the members of JStreet.org and other Jews who deplore Israeli imperialism and persecution of Palestinians.
Most of the Aipac types use the "anti-Semitic" accusation because it's become the nastiest thing they can say, and the one best thing most likely to shut up critical "goyim." It's become more shameful to be called anti-Semitic than to be called anti-anything else. Which says something.
Rainborowe
It's a point worth making Rainborrowe, thanks.
My opposition to AIPAC positions stems from my support for the underlying cause of Israel, and from my support for the equivalent national rights for the Palestinians.
Internet discourse constantly regresses toward binary oppositions... with us or against us. I'm not with AIPAC, but I'm even less with what I judge to be majority sentiment here on this board, which in the form it is expressed here is as opposed to Palestinian interests (in my opinion) as AIPAC is opposed to Israeli interests.
The loud and the angry dominate the intertubes and the air waves... they do not make peace.
Mike--
I missed this before. And I agree. Obviously I'm more a partisan of the Palestinians, with whom I've spent a good part of my life, and you of Israel but, while a couple of decades ago I would have said that the best solution for all was the return to the pre-1967 borders (returning to the pre-Israel past being impossible, realistically), the far-right movement of Israeli politics since then and, sadly (and unexpectedly to me--until I consider the influx of Russians), the rightward following of the Israeli population, suggests that the course now set by Israel and its American mouthpiece will almost certainly bring about the destruction of the state of Israel. I don't see any other end.
I don't even want to think about just how it will come to an end--I just hope I don't live to see it.
Rainborowe
Rainbow, right on.
Rainborowe,
"It's become more shameful to be called anti-Semitic than to be called anti-anything else. Which says something."
which actually says a lot about christian guilt relative to the holocaust. the aipac crowd are masters of playing off of 'our' complicity during the extermination campaign of the nazi regime. that's a powerful mindf-ck w/ very graphic charts and visual aids to hit the point home.
of course, it's acceptable to hate arabs/muslims in america. as americans we've always exploited these people for their resources.
was it shameful in the 19th century, during the rapid expansion westward, to be a sincere advocate for the colonists who were displacing/murdering native americans ?
the holocaust was despicable as were numerous other atrocities that have occurred in recent times, to focus on this one tragedy - the zionist - attempts to absolve his nation of all it's current transgressions against humanity.
very perverted immoral thinking.
...peace...
Iowa "the holocaust was despicable as were numerous other atrocities that have occurred in recent times, to focus on this one tragedy - the zionist - attempts to absolve his nation of all it's current transgressions against humanity."
The big difference is that most other atrocities in recent times haven't been orchestrated and carried out with the help, encouragement and support of the United States. Another difference is that most other atrocities were massacres of people that were speedily over, leaving little that anyone could do.
The establishment of the state of Israel and the displacement of the original inhabitants took place entirely within my lifetime and would never have taken place but for the material aid and support of the United States from that first declaration to the present. As an American a chunk of my taxes goes to support Israel in money and loan guarantees to buy their advanced weapons systems, and to maintain a constant pressure on other U.N. nations to toe the same line and shut up with their protests of what is, surely laughingly, called "our ally"--as if Israel actually helps and supports the U.S. rather than it being the other way around.
Rainborowe
Rainborowe,
i think we basically agree, i was born in june of 1967 and when i look
at the situation in palestine from a personal/historical perspective - i can
see that for every day i have been alive, the palestinian people have
been fighting to restore their right to control their land.
"The big difference is that most other atrocities in recent times
haven't been orchestrated and carried out with the help, encouragement
and support of the United States"
actually not true, the death toll (genocide in east timor (up to 200,000) was proportionately greater than the death in cambodia (although more people died in cambodia).
- 90% of the weapons provided to the indonesian military regime to commit these atrocities were provided by the US government.
- the atrocities were under-reported b/c of US fears of losing control of valuable shipping lanes that supply most of the oil to japan.
- there was an exagerrated fear that the east timorese govt (under the control of FRETILIN) would become 'communists'.
- as to US coordination, the invasion of E timor (dec 1975) occurred the day after a historic visit by gerald ford and henry kissinger. air force one leaves the runway in jakarta- next day suharto invades - no US objections - give them more guns. (see link below)
FORD, KISSINGER AND THE INDONESIAN INVASION, 1975-76
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB62/
carter and reagan followed in fords footsteps - continuing support for suharto.
- the slaughter wasn't an isolated wurlitzer of horror, a slaughter in a few weeks (like rwanda). it was stretched out over 20 years, and was institutional (like the US colonialization of north america) - including the introduction of indonesian farmers on land once controlled by the timorese themselves.
and there were calls from human rights organizations and concerned citizens in the late 70's and early 80's to suspend US military aid b/c of the massacres and atrocities occurring in east timor.
chomsky in his book (and in the subsequent film) manufacturing consent goes into great detail as to why you would believe that the US doesn't encourage this activity and why an average american would see the slaughter in cambodia as more significant (both occurred at the same time - one received extensive media coverage).
...peace...
continued -
guatemala - another example of genocide that was written and orchestrated and performed by US elites (again using an exaggerated fear of outsiders - communists - as an excuse to slaughter indigenous people).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala
{According to the U.N.-sponsored truth commission the ("Commission for Historical Clarification"), government forces and state-sponsored paramilitaries were responsible for over 93% of the human rights violations during the war.[10] During the first 10 years, the victims of the state-sponsored terror were primarily students, workers, professionals, and opposition figures, but in the last years they were thousands of mostly rural Mayan farmers and non-combatants. More than 450 Mayan villages were destroyed and over 1 million people became internal and external refugees. In certain areas, such as Baja Verapaz, the Truth Commission considered that the Guatemalan state engaged in an intentional policy of genocide against particular ethnic groups in the Civil War.[10] In 1999, U.S. president Bill Clinton stated that the United States was wrong to have provided support to Guatemalan military forces that took part in the brutal civilian killings.[11]}
------------------------------------------------------
i agree that we should stop spending our precious resources on war. as to our relationship around the globe w/ israel. i believe it's a symbiotic relationship. for example israel helped the US in the 1980's by supplying arms by proxy to regimes like south africa, guatemala, argentina and chilie when western countries were imposing arms embargoes on those countries b/c of human rights abuses.
as a pariah nation - israel has had an affinity w/ both the neocons and the most scurrilous dictators around the world, which in the past has been seen as geopolitical plus for war hawks in washington, a backdoor.
the nazi/jewish psychological game has everything to do with a common enemy. b/c we (the jews of europe and the US) fought a common enemy (nazis), it's easier for americans to identify w/ the zionists in israel - who constantly invoke the nazi regime as the purist form of evil (which is dangerous b/c the nazis are not evil they are an example of a culture that became evil).
it's difficult for americans to make that distinction as our elites and media constantly define our perceived enemies as incarnations of evil and our allies as supreme examples of good. once enshrouded by this mythology, many americans cannot see thier 'good' friends (they were persecuted by nazis, they also have an anti arab orientation - we the US want arab oil) committing evil deeds. the MSM won't allow it.
...peace
It depends on what you consider being pro-Israel to mean. Can you clarify that?
Yes. Pro-Israel means supporting the right of the State of Israel to exist. It doesn't mean supporting the policies of the Likud, and previous Israeli governments of all stripes, in instigating or allowing settlement of the West Bank, which is in clear violation of international law. They vary on East Jerusalem.
Rainborowe
Alright then. And yes I am pro-Israel, I support the right of the State of Israel to exist. Uh, just like people globally support the right of all existing states to exist...except here it seems. I have not seen calls for any state except Israel to be dissolved. And by that definition I am also pro-Palestinian, because I support the right of the Palestinians to have their own state.
We have a single political party in the US composed of two branches known as the left (Democratic) wing and the right (Republican) wing. Both are owned by corporations as is the president now. AIPAC is composed of corporate people, therefore they own this country. Nothing will change until we have a revolution. We will continue to subsidize Israeli persecution and torture of Palestinians.
The UN has no power, but I think they should repeal UN Resolution 181.
I must disagree with the belief that there are "... two branches known as the left [Democratic] wing and the right [Republican] wing." The Democrats are certainly not on the left; on the contrary, they are on the center-right. True leftists do not support, among other things, the illegal and immoral occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq and do not support Obama's false claim of universal health care as opposed to a single-payer health carer system. But the statement that both parties are owned by the large corporations is certainly accurate.
Why would anyone complain to AIPAC about Gaza, they don't need no stinking complaints about Gaza. Israel owns the US Govt, has for decades, and all us hillbillies are good for is to pay the taxes AIPAC and its crew don't pay, and to die in wars on behalf of Israel. Just who does this author think they are, a free, independent citizen or something?
THE SPEECH OF TRUTH
On April 20th, 2009, the sitting president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, stood up before a world conference in Geneva, amid heckling, applause, and tense anticipation and proceeded to give what is now known as "The Speech of Truth". In a world where statesmen use such platforms for blatant propaganda and banal, meaningless rhetoric, people around the world have been reduced to listening to mere horoscopes and having to interpret familiar lies from governments officials around the world as subtle diplomacy. But on this fine day in April something new happened, something entirely unexpected and never heard in the "free" countries of the world...the truth. So shocking was this to the western delegates, that they immediately walked out, in tandem, almost covering their ears lest they be offended by sounds they only hear uttered in private amongst each other in their secret clubs and meetings. It was the rarest of rare moments, and if you missed it, then you missed what free speech can do to clowns dressed in suits who only know of one singular reaction to such abusive noise...EXIT!
http://www.humanbeingsarefree.blogspot.com/
Too bad they don't keep on exiting until they exit this life.
If I remember correctly, this author was the same one who supported Kerry in 2004 over Nader and even begged Nader not to run and again Obama over Nader and again begged Nader not to run. I believe that she also endorsed AIPAC kissyface Pelosi over Sheehan and even urged other members of CP to do the same. I'm sorry but unless I am mistaken about MB, MB is not an advocate for peace but supporting warmongers over real pro peace pols such as Nader, Mckinney, Sheehan, etc ...
You know what? Enough with the politically correct witch hunts. Surely her enduring activism and courage compensate for any political miscalculation. Certainly a Socialist or a communist could claim you are throwing your vote away on the compromised Greens.
Well, excuse me but how the hell do you expect those of us who knew MB somewhat better to take her seriously? I'm sorry but looking at her full record of her actions and support, she is very inconsistent and I refuse to back down ! So how did your vote for Obama turn out? A wasted vote, no?
So, she ain't pure enough for you and you want to punish me now?
This constant drone is elitist because it conveys, "I am better than you" and juvenile-- Nyah, Nyah, told ya so.
Alright mister smarty pants, since you want to call yourself "mature" and call me "purist", please this question if you dare:
If MB really means what she says, then why didn't she support those who shared any of her vision when it mattered the most and yet supported Obama, Kerry, Pelosi, etc ... who opposed her on peace ?
C'mon, Jennifer, do you measure everything and everyone by the same stick? Can't people disagree on one point and come together on others? If Medea Benjamin saves the world, are you still going to excoriate her because she supported Obama?
There are shades of gray in this life.
Medea Benjamin saving the world? By supporting pols who will fight to do the opposite? Yeah, that really works ! NOT ! I don't mind MB's disagreements but she needs to be consistent about it which she isn't. Going out of her way to beg Nader, a real fighter for peace and getting us off these bloody wars, because she's afraid that Obama, pro-war, will lose is not fighting to save the world.
You say "...unless I'm mistaken..." You are mistaken. Medea Benjamin is out there doing good work. She, like you, like me, is not perfect, but she is an honorable person standing up in the face of adversity. Thank you Medea for your work.
I don't mind MB speaking out but when she has the nerve to support pols who oppose her and our views, I question her realness. Supporting pro-war Kerry, Obama, and Pelosi against Kucinich, Nader, and Sheehan for example makes me question what she really stands for. Think about it.
Yes. Saying you support a certain cause and then voting against people who support that cause in favor of politicians that don't is really a weird disconnect. No wonder she's ignored by AIPAC - she supports their candidates!!
You raise a good point, however our two-party, winner takes all election system is also to blame; our billion dollar, corporate media dictated and directed election spectacle is democracy for the highest bidder. There are deep seated structural and systemic problems as well as institutionalized corruption to blame as well. If the system is broken and corrupt, how can we expect change to come from the very same system?
Maybe I should go to one of these meetings...I'd like to see some puny staffer cuss me out and attempt to drag my 6'2, 440 lbs. ass out of there. All while I'm wearing my gigantic Star of David around my neck.
That WOULD be fun to watch! : )
You could just swat them off like the annoying flies they are.
If I log out, this article disappears from the CD list of articles. As soon as I log in, it's back. Uhhh????
Yeah, it's a strange and relatively new issue. However, I've noticed it on another site as well.
Don't ask CD, they won't respond.
The Israeli government pays quite a few people to post here--along with a hacker or two.
Yep. I don't put anything past them. Look up 'false flag" and remember the Liberty.
that is odd isn't it? same for me.
intimidation of CD? or is CD creeping toward MSM as a faux progressive news source?
That, too.
Mine locked up yesterday too when I logged out. What's up CD?
The more press Aipac gets, the better. It all shows their strong influence on the U.S. government and makes Congress and the Administration look like a bunch of fools and paid off political hacks, which they are. It won't last forever, so keep on with it Medea, you're doing all of us a huge favor.
Call us whatever you wish, we are collectively opposed to Israel's misbehavior on the world stage. The hatred and inhumane treatment of Palestinians must be repudiated by everyone with a conscience.
Most ironic comment in Media Benjamin's article: "Shut the f--- up. Shut the f--- up." one staffer yelled, red-faced and sweating as he ran beside me. "This is not the place to be saying that shit. Get the f--- out of here."
Like for Mr. Cheney on the floor of Congress, the f-word is acceptable vocabulary while words of compassion and forgiveness are forbidden. Maybe everyone in AIPAC has snarly teeth? The fangs of vicious animals not yet evolved beyond proprietary territorialism of people aged only a few decades speaking of "owning" land for 4,000 years.
Every Jew is now related to and justified by the holocaust? Isaac was fooled, too. Claiming ancestral rights as justification for violence against Arabs in the Middle East is bosh.
You mean AIPAC of liars are bribing and manipulating a pack of liars in Congress? This is America damn it, how can this happen?
America has been silently conquered by a foreign govt. The congress/senate whores are at AIPAC pledging their allegiance to the United States of Israel.
>>
The congress/senate whores are at AIPAC pledging their allegiance to the United States of Israel.
<<
Because the Mossad/AIPAC has so much dirt on them they don't dare take a shit without AIPAC approval.
Of course, the U.S. could stop them.
The short answer is no one. No one human being can stop this group of perpetual victims from seeing themselves as justified in their hate. It would seem that they learned the wrong lessons from history...
The holocaust was disgusting, but so are these professional victims. And they are so very dangerous too.
How's that working for Palestinian victims? Have they learned any lessons from their history?
Or does your thesis only apply to "this group" while others are ennobled and enriched by the sorry hand history has dealt them?
[How's that working for Palestinian victims? Have they learned any lessons from their history?]
I'd say they have. They've mostly given up on the idea of non-violent resistance, mostly due to the idiots who are more than willing to kill those who act violently or non-violently. Sorry buddy, I think each side is as idiotic as the other. One of those sides happens to be much better armed than the other one, which makes a difference in the amount of blood spilled. 100 palistinians for every israeli... The Nazis didn't achieve such numbers when they were killing people in the thirties and forties (about 10 million Germans were killed during that war, which is less than the number they killed in the death camps, and nowhere near a ratio of 100:1. Unlike AIPAC, I'll count the political prisoners, gypsies, homosexuals, russian pows, etc. that the Nazis killed as well as the jewish ones.)
Tell me, when will humans learn that killing people to show people that killing people is wrong, and is in fact quite the bloody waste of time.
Unfortunately, it goes on and on, a constant spiral downwards. The spiral might have started when the first self identified 'Israelite' slew his first Canaanite. Or maybe it started with Cain and Able (or when a Cro-Magnon speared his first Neadrathal).
Very true. Evidently, some truths are implacable, no matter who's side they lie in.
Israel is following an ancient path toward self-destruction. Nothing new or complicated there.
yes, of course, while Hamas is following the ancient path toward....
Hamas: a bunch of teenagers with rocks and firecrackers...... supplied by someone throwing these items over the wall, I would venture to guess.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
If that were true the good leaders of Gaza could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by keeping them at home.... but of course those teenagers had the full support of the top leadership and the fire they started was a disaster.
Remember, Mike, that the last ceasefire was kept by Hamas--no pipe-rockets, or anything--and broken in December by the Israeli carpet-bombing of Ghaza.
Evidently the Ghazans' ending of those amateur attacks on border Israelis didn't prevent the Israeli assault. The question then is, can you be sure that the occasional previous amateurish attacks really caused the previous heavy Israeli "reprisals?" Dont forget that the incommensurability of "reprisals" was a repeated charge at the WW2 war trials in Tokyo and Nuremberg. It was contrary to various Geneva and other conventions of war. In fact one German officer that I remember was hanged for miscounting by a very small number the number of Italian partisans he had shot in reprisal for the shooting of a German officer. It's along time since I read about this but I believe he was allowed to shoot 100 but in fact shot a handful more--but don't hold me to the real figures, although the event is authentic.
Rainborowe
Yes, of course. Parents do such excellent jobs at keeping their teenagers out of trouble around the world... (sarcasm dripping) I'd imagine the palistinian parents might be able to do a better job of it, had they not been killed by bombs dropped by the terrorists on both sides over the last 60 years or so...
This is not unusual. We become what we hate.
Rainborowe
Your comment is the wisest one on this message board. thank you richstew
If true, then are the haters of Israel doomed to create their own Israeli state?
What if we hate something that is truly good... does it too become our fate?
I think life might be a little more complicated than that.
Of course, life is more complicated than that. However, for a people to live through a holocaust, then to visit incredible violence on others in the name of such horror, beggars belief. Rational people can't hold such opposing thoughts.
Another point: Israel is not a lone, indefensible state. It's reach is extensive and deep, especially in the USA. Who shouldn't be very worried and upset by this?
Indeed, let us not hate, but let us not recoil from the truth, as complicated as it may seem.
I wonder what the Palestinians have learned in terms of empathy from the nakba.
Actually, I have a pretty good idea. For most it has hardened hearts. For a very few it has led to an understanding of suffering and of what it means to be a refugee.
I do not wish to draw facile parallels, but the Holocaust was a bitter lesson for most, the kind of lesson that creates hatred and resolve. But for some it also created a sympathy for the other.
A path of peace making is to enable people to reflect on their historical (and personal ) experience and to help them find a way to understand the other through that.
Much of the nakba narrative focusses exclusively on victimization... fair enough, and far be it from me to tell another people what to learn from their own experience. But there is material enough in there, as I have seen illustrated by Palestinian authors, for Palestinians to find the empathy for the other that will be necessary for peace.
Palestinians are the victims of victims. But victims and victims of victims don't make peace. Victimization is the worst possible place from which to make peace. Perhaps it can't even be done. And Palestinian victimization is ongoing, which makes it doubly hard. But the parallelisms of victimization narratives are one place where peace can be built, if people can recognize them.
Mike 2--
"I do not wish to draw facile parallels, but the Holocaust was a bitter lesson for most, the kind of lesson that creates hatred and resolve. But for some it also created a sympathy for the other."
Yes--but not when "the other" are the people being persecuted by the survivors of the shoah!
You are missing a very important point here.
European Jews were victims of the Nazis--NOT of the Palestinians, yet they rewarded themselves by dispossessing the inhabitants of another land who had no animosity toward them (didn't even know of their history) until they were being dispossessed without compunction--still less "empathy."
Palestianians were victims of European Jews who seized the land the inhabitants and that their ancestors (now Muslims, Christians and Jews) had lived on for millennia, slaughtered them, drove them out and pauperized them. If you think Palestinians should have empathy for their persecutors, who have never stopped that persecution but have ratcheted it up over the years of continuing disposession, there's something weird about your logic: the two situations are simply not comparable from any perspective.
When the American ambassador to Saudi Arabia was trying to sell King Faisal on the justice of giving the Palestinians' land to the survivors of the Shoah in Germany, the king listened sympathetically to the story of their persecution and then said, "So give them Germany!"
That wouild at least have the kind of logic you are suggesting, although I don't think that's the right approach either, but neither was unleashing the psychopaths of Irgun and the Stern Gang on unarmed Palestinian farmers and their families and butchering them until they fled. And if you want to see how little "empathy" the incoming Jews had, you need look no further than those boys.
I have spent a lot of time in Israel, although not in recent years, and I found many very, kind, decent and generous Israelis but I didn't look like a Palestinian. However things have gotten much worse--and it has very, very rarely been the Israelis who have been suffering at the hands of the Palestinians.
Rainborowe
excellent comment - thank you.
...peace...
While I disagree with some of what you say in other posts... I value the points you bring up here... Thank you for articulating these issues in this perspective...
AIPAC uses the tired old racist slur against anyone who criticizes Israel: "Jew Hater" "Nazi Sympathizer" OR if you are Jewish like Dr. Norman Finkelstein, Dennis Bernstein, Joel Kovel et al. you are called "self hating Jew" etc.
People like Dr. Richard Falk (UN Rapportuer) have been called this as well as Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu.
When is someone in the MSM going to expose this disgusting practice as well as AIPAC thuggery and intimidation? As Benjamin points out, anti-Zionist US Jews must stand up to defy these neo-fascist deathmongers. One group who has begun to speak out is Jewish Voice for Peace.
Have you any clue as to who owns the MSM?
Of course the problem is that the opposition to Israel's existence and/or to its policies includes "Jew haters" and people of conscience, and nobody really knows what the proportions are.
As an opponent of Israel's policies I certainly do not feel welcome at most rallies opposing Israel's policies because these are generally places and events filled with self evident raw hatred of Jews.
I feel as hostile to most anti-Israeli political activity as I do to AIPAC. The extremes suck the oxygen out of the middle and out of peace, and leave no place for me to participate.
Definitely a problem.I tend to stay away from some of the Answer Coalition folks, because some of them seem to sliding down the slippery slope to real, scary, old time antisemitism.In a similar way, in the great anti-war demos of the sixties and seventies, it was a good idea to stay away from the guys with the Vietcong flags.What the hell, I only qualify as half of a self-hating Jew.
I am sorry you feel that way, I could not disagree more. What about all the "self-hating Jews? Are Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu "anti-Semitic"? as AIPAC says? Does AIPAC have any moral authority to label anyone? They are the ones who have deep-seated racism issues.
I believe real racists hate Arabs more than Jews (although both can be considered Semitic) and there are very few genuine anti-Semites in my experience, in the anti-Zionist movement. Dr. Norman Finkelstein explains this better than I can, I refer you to him: "Beyond Chutzpah: the misuse of anti-Semitism and the abuse of History".
By the way calling him a self-hating Jew has no effect.
I don't know any self hating Jews in a political sense, and I don't know what you are talking about in that regard.
You can read through the comments on this blog and see more than enough anti-Jewish animus to last a lifetime.
Nobody can see into the heart and know what true feelings lurk there - we listen to the words and we draw what conclusions we can.
"Real racists"? A racist hates on the basis of race, an "antisemite" has got a slightly different disease involving race and religion and ideology. I don't think competitive victimization is a healthy game.
The fact that Arabs are semites is a really pointless semantic argument - antisemitism is a word that refers, for good reason, to a unique kind of hatred focussed at Jews. Sorry that we got our own special word, but in European history we were a kind of unique case. Anti Arab hatred is no less serious an issue, but like each hatred and conflict it has its own unique history. Calling it "antisemitism" is frankly silly and unhelpful. It is still very bad in its own very bad and unique way.
Maybe you think all sorts of things that I think are antisemitism... just aren't, so you give the "antiZionist movement" a clean bill of health. Is Hamas part of your antiZionist movement? How about Hizbollah? How about Iran? These are all complicated organizations and nations with lots of people who feel lots of different things, but they are shot through with expressions of hatred to the very existence of Jews as a political nation in its land, to the fundamental legitimacy of Jews as an indigenous and sovereign people in Palestine. I call that antisemitism, and I call it an extension of the antisemitism of the Catholic church and the German and Soviet states, translated to the modern middle eastern context.
Go to any antiIsrael rally in the US and you will here blood curdling calls for the destruction of the state of Israel, blood curdling because it is all that stands between the lives of most of its citizens and death.
Oh sure, you'll also hear fine promises that Jews will have their individual rights in the glorious state of the future, which any rational person would take about as seriously as a promise of a happy working life in one of those great German work camps in eastern Poland.
So you and I may have different ways of measuring what is in people's hearts.
If you grow up in a Christian nation like the U.S. you learn that Christian love is generally a form of hatred, rebranded, which accepts YOU only if you change yourself to its model. Real love and acceptance involves accepting other people as they really are, not as we would have them be. And real peace involves people working together to find a way to accept the other as it really is.
Anyway, a two state solution is out there to be had. AIPAC and the current Israeli government are working against it, but we'll get there, and from a position of mutual recognition of their sovereign national rights in their shared homeland, Jews and Palestinians will ultimately forge some kind of binational federated whatchamcallit in the land of Israel and Palestine.
Yet, who ever hear charges of racism when a Jew hates and slaughters an Arab and then cries victimhood.
People have a right to be angry. Were the Germans hated? Did they suffer national disgrace. Well?
"You can read through the comments on this blog and see more than enough anti-Jewish animus to last a lifetime."
The majority of the comments I read were critical of Zionism and the Israeli government, not of the Jewish people as a whole. Can you quote a few examples of what you consider anti-Jewish animus?
Of course, the fact that the state of Israel is so closely bound up with the identity of the Jewish people makes it difficult to treat the two as entirely separate concepts.
Look at comments by Horrified and Wanderer, classic implications of dual loyalty, for example. There are others.
You didn't offer any quotations. I don't see anything indicative of anti-Jewish prejudice or racism in Horrified's posts. The gist of Wanderer's postings is that he (or she) believes that Jewish Americans didn't do enough to prevent what he sees as the pernicious influence of groups such as AIPAC on American foreign policy. While it's true that that's a criticism of the majority of Jewish Americans, it's a criticism of their political behavior, not a racist attack on the Jewish people, and I certainly don't see that it merits the description of "more than enough anti-Jewish animus to last a lifetime." (That's not to say that I agree with Wanderer's point, any more than I agree with the claim that all Americans are now responsible for torture)
Given that that the group identity of the Jewish people is so tightly bound up with the state of Israel, it's difficult for people who are critical of Israeli policies voice their opinions without being accused of racism. Many of the people who criticize Israeli policies on CD also criticize the American goverment's policies concerning the wars, the Wall Street bailout, etc. I believe that the basis of their criticisms is the same in both cases - a desire for justice and equality. The fact that in one case they are criticizing the policies of a state that is intimately connected to the Jewish people does not mean that they are motivated by racism.
Given that the group identity of the Jewish people is so tightly bound up with the state of Israel, I grant you that it is difficult to attack Israeli policies without attacking Israel and Jews, but that is your responsibility if that is your intention.
On the other hand, it is also difficult to support Palestinians when they endorse Hamas.... my responsibility is to do so nonetheless.
That's the challenge. How do you demonstrate solidarity with a people and disagree with the policies of some of its leaders?
The accusation of dual loyalty against Jews is such a common canard that I'm not going to take the time to argue it - it's boilerplate antisemitism, straight out of Nazi Germany. Israelis, by the way, have their own version of it against Israeli Arabs too. No matter, it is part of the racist cannon, particularly when applied to a whole group, like "j street" or "them".
The nuance you see between attacks on Jewish political behavior and attacks on Jews as Jews, when Jewish support for Israel is such a deep part of Jewish identity, is lost on even me, and certainly would be lost on most American Jews. I'm sure that many people have a picture of their imaginary "good Jew" who if he/she would just stop supporting Israel (or in the old days, just accept Jesus as savior) then that person would be a fine and wonderful human being.
Well, the Jews that the Palestinians need to make peace with are the Zionists, the Israelis, and those like me who oppose Israeli policies because of our support for the state of Israel. As long as people are deploying century old bullshit about banking and dual loyalty and new ones like Trade Tower conspiracies, they are living in a sick fantasy world. I almost welcome their delusions because an opponent who is divorced from reality shoots himself in the foot. But as a human being I feel for them, and my better nature knows that as long as they are lost in the delusional world of antisemitism they are in some ways marginalized and less dangerous, but in other ways it becomes impossible to make peace with them also.
"The nuance you see between attacks on Jewish political behavior and attacks on Jews as Jews, when Jewish support for Israel is such a deep part of Jewish identity, is lost on even me, and certainly would be lost on most American Jews."
Wanderer blamed the majority of Jewish Americans for not doing enough to suppress the baneful influence of AIPAC on American foreign policy. As I wrote, I happen to disagree with him/her on that point, but I don't see any evidence of anti-Semitism in his/her remarks. A dictionary definition of anti-Semitism is "hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group." Perhaps you believe that Jewish support for the current Israeli government's policies is a necessary part of Jewish religious, ethnic, or racial identity, from which you conclude that any criticism of Israeli government policies is necessarily anti-Semitic. If so, I dispute that contention, as I know many Jewish people who are critical of the Israeli government's policies (you can even find several just by reading the responses to this article). If, through some miracle, the Israelis and Palestinians learn to live together in peace and mutual respect, I have no doubt that the hostility of most current critics of Israeli policies would cease, whereas hostility that is an outgrowth of anti-Semitism would never cease.
"I'm sure that many people have a picture of their imaginary 'good Jew' who if he/she would just stop supporting Israel (or in the old days, just accept Jesus as savior) then that person would be a fine and wonderful human being."
You're rather trigger-happy in imputing racist ideations to others.
The accusation of dual loyalty is a standard antisemitic accusation. Not much more that you can say about it.
You'd like to make this about criticism of Israeli government policies but that's not an issue for me. Criticize away. But you'd have to be pretty obtuse not to read through these comments and see that there is a lot more going on than just a little policy disagreement.
"But you'd have to be pretty obtuse not to read through these comments and see that there is a lot more going on than just a little policy disagreement."
People who are convinced that they are surrounded by others who are prejudiced against them will often see prejudice where none exists. Neither of us can see into the hearts of other posters, but I invite you to at least consider the possibility that some of those whom you think are motivated by anti-Semitism are in fact motivated by a desire for justice.
Mike 2--
You have a problem in that this accusation of dual loyalty CAN only be made against American Jews because they are the only group of American citizens who can adopt and hold the citizenship of a second country (Israel) and retain their citizenship as Americans. This was by special act of Congress and only for Jews, to whom alone the Israeli "Law of Return" applied. Other Americans cannot take another nationality and remain American citizens. I would imagine that if Italy or Germany or Japan had a similar law with regards to the descendants of its nationals who had emigrated to the United states a century or two ago, they might also be suspected of dual loyalty. In fact Japanese-Americans were so accused without having taken Japanese citizenship, as were German Americans, although not with such dire consequences.
I, personally, find the notion of "loyalty" a bit embarrassing but what we're really talking about is people who are Americans but seem to be far more concerned for another country than for their own, to the point of determinedly subordinating the interests of their own, birth country to the peculiar interests of another--not to mention demanding and getting the treasury of their birth country to finance wholesale the dubious adventures of the other country.
Rainborowe
Good point. Although the law does allow for dual citizenship in other cases, such as a child being born in the U.S. to foreign parents; that child would have foreign citizenship as well, depending on that foreign country's laws.
http://www.usimmigrationsupport.
org/dual_citizenship.html
ZMANN--
Yes, but that's different--the child was born a natural citizen of two countries. I also am theoretically a dual national. I was not born American and the country of my birth is one of those which simply never removes citizenship once bestowed. However, when I took the oath of naturalization here, I swore to relinquish all other loyalties, or words to that effect and I would be required to do military service if my age/sex were appropriate (which they are not). Despite having dual citizenship one just doesn't find people like me rallying and marching in the streets and pouring vast amounts of money and noxious statements demanding that this country act as a wholly owned subsidiary of my birth country (even though I have quite fond memories of my birth country). AIPAC followers, however, do just that--not on behalf of their birth country, but on behalf of a country they have only, for the most part, a theoretical (or possibly future) citizenship in and which in many cases they have never seen.
Rainborowe
I know a yank who took out dual citizenship in both canada and the usa, his parents are yanks and he had no canadian rellies. I've never really liked the idea, as you cannot have two 'masters' and be loyal to both.
I'm puzzled as to how he "took out dual citizenship in both Canada and the USA." If he was born Canadian (i.e. he didn't "take it out") and then acquired US citizenship he would have sworn to give up all other, including Canadian, allegiances. Now, if Canada is one of those countries that don't drop their citizens no matter what they do, he will, want-it-or-not, have dual citizenship. That hardly counts as his "taking out dual citizenship."
On the other hand, if he began as an American and then took Canadian citizenship as an adult, he should have lost his American citizenship. Exceptions are people who are claimed by two countries from birth, like babies born of at least one American parent and one foreign parent, or a baby born of American parents in another country, or born of foreign parents in the USA. In those cases the person is considered by the US to be American and by the "other" to be theirs, too, but supposed (by the US and many countries) to declare for one or the other at the age majority; failure to do so would create a liabilty for military service and other unpleasant stuff in both countries, among other things.
If you'll forgive a slight digression, this relates to the "issue" of Obama's nationality. His much questioned birth certificate is irrelevant. To be a citizen of the US he only has to be able to prove (by any acceptable means, e.g. hospital records) that he was born in the USA (or its territories and, with some reservations, its "extra-territories") even if he was born of foreign parents, OR born of ONE American parent, anywhere. As his mother was unquestionably American, he could have been born on the rings of Saturn and he'd still be a US citizen.
Of course, very few Americans know anything about nationality law because, unlike immigrants, they never have to deal with it. Amazing, though, how the loony right doesn't mind diving in to something they are so ignorant about. On second thoughts, scratch that comment . . .)
Rainborowe
Guy was born in the states, applied for canadian citizenship, moved back to the states. He's a dual Canuck/Yank. Sorry that I don't know the particulars, but as far as I know, the guy is a citizen of both countries, and neither has objected to it...
Besides, I don't buy mike2's argument that any and all doubts about the loyalties of dual citizens stem from racial prejudice. On the other hand, I'm no fan of nationalism of any kind, regardless of the country in question.
Thanks for your response. I don't have time to read it now, but I'll try to get to it soon.
You want to get specific, or are you just throwing it against the wall to see if it sticks?
Well... at least by posting you can give an appearance of having a response without any actual substance.
[anti-Jewish animus to last a lifetime.]
I don't see that, I've seen most posters be quite clear about the fact that it's the Israeli gov't and it's supporters who are being criticized, unless they're all the jews in the world the postings aren't anti-Jewish.
[ Sorry that we got our own special word, but in European history we were a kind of unique case]
No, you're not. The armenians were slaughtered by the turks back in 1915. The Cathar's were the victims of a different crusade in the middle ages. To name but two times that europeans have attempted to wipe out an entire 'race' of humans. Genocides have happened at a nausiating rate thruout history, and no, we haven't learned how to stop them from happening. Just ask the people of Rwanda how well we've done at the idea of 'never again'.
[Anyway, a two state solution is out there to be had.]
What a great idea, having two more states in the world that will have their identities based on religion and/or race. Hasn't worked in any other country that's tried it, but hey, 510,125,221st's times the charm, eh?
Saturnalia--"To name but two times that europeans have attempted to wipe out an entire 'race' of humans."
You're wrong on this: The Armenians were in Asiatic Turkey, not Europe, and the Cathars were not a race or a national group but a minority sect of French Christian Manicheists. There weren't many of them but they were killed as all deviants from Roman Catholicism were: burned to purify their souls of their heresy, in the belief--or purported belief--of the times.
And as for your last comment, until the creation of the State of Israel the only common denominator of the people of Palestine was language (Arabic). But the people included native (Sephardic) Jews, Christians of many denominations with Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic predominating, and a fair-sized minority of people of Armenian descent (Armenian Orthodox/Catholic--refugees from the massacres you mention), Bahais (their founder's tomb is in Haifa) along with the Samaritan Jews (who recognize only the Pentateuch) living around Nablus and, of course, the Muslims, converts from Christianity after the (relatively small number) of followers of Mohammed moved in and intermarried with the locals.
Rainborowe
The Turks claim to be european, I give em the benefit of the doubt. After a few thousand years of having people cross in both directions while carrying arms and trade goods...
My point was to infer that people have used 'race' 'religion' and 'tribal' status to slaughter each other for centuries. Just because you're a member of group 'a' 'b' or 'c' doesn't make you better or worse than group 'd', each group of humans who've gotten power over other groups of humans tends to be rather nasty to the 'lesser' humans who don't have much power.
A keeper:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/RespectingHolocaust.html
The vast majority of Jews in the world support Israel. Most discourse bleeds from opposition to the "Israel government" to opposition to the Israeli State to opposition to Zionism to opposition to Jews. It's difficult to be certain where people stand in blog comments or at rallies, and often their statements are strategically parsed so that the objection is only to the "government"... but it is fairly plain that their objection is to indigenous Jewish political power in the land of Palestine itself... ie. it's Zionism they are after, or Jews they are after.
Re, antisemitism, sorry again, but antisemitism and the condition of the Jewish diaspora is a rather unique case in European history. I didn't say that genocide against the Jews was unique. We're well aware of the Roma people and the Armenians and many others, but there was an historical phenomenon involving Jews in Europe called "antisemitism" (involving specific issues in European and Christian culture and its relationship to Jewish ideas and communities and historical relationships) and it is sophomoric to include Arabs in that discourse under the label of "antisemitism" on the basis of an etymological relationship. Western colonialism against Arabs, centuries of efforts at domination, control and extermination is a whole other issue of racism, parallel to antisemitism, but unique also.
Re Two state solutions, actually, ethnonational states are the norm around the world, with obvious (partial) exceptions in the U.S. and a few other cases, and even there ethno-nationalism is a deep part of the structure of the state. Does it "work"? No, it's got problems everywhere, but I see no reason for the Jews or the Palestinians to volunteer to sacrifice their national ambitions because France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Japan etc. etc. reveal the problems of using ethnonationalism as the basis of the modern state. People love to volunteer the vulnerable people and peoples of the world for experiments that they would never subject themselves too.
I believe that the better world we all seek lies through the path of realized and moderated national ambitions not though utopian efforts to transcend them. That's a much longer discussion, but it constitutes the core case for a Palestinian state, and for a Jewish state, which may prove to be the starting point for confederations and new forms of political organization... but are essential first steps at least.
I want for Palestinians what I want for Jews, political sovereignty in a state of their own in their homeland, the one that we share deep historical ties to.
[Most discourse bleeds from opposition to the "Israel government" to opposition to the Israeli State to opposition to Zionism to opposition to Jews.]
The slippery slope arguement. Wonderful. I have criticised the Isreali Gov't for years now, but have not ever thought that a solution to palistine could be achieved by blaming all the jews for the lunatics who live within their midst. Refutation by personal experience.
Racism is racism is racism. Just as humans are humans. There aren't more 'special' forms of hatred, and no group of humans are immune from the insidious nature of hating others.
I disagree, as an historian. Hatreds have colors, shades, nuances and meanings just as loves do.
We understand more when we are precise about what drives conflict culturally, politically economically.
A historian are you? Who'd you study under? David Irving?
I mean only that I am a reader of history ... no claim of professional authority intended.
I mean that your grasp of history seems as accurate as that of the rather infamous Irving. I'm surprised that you didn't damn me for being an anti-semite for daring to bring up the name of the holocaust denying 'historian' David Irving. Surely someone who's as quick to denounce all things anti-semitic you'd have known the name?
Methinks you're the new screen name for joeblow, or whatever his name was...
mike2 is the only screen name I've ever used here.
I've heard of David Irving, but I'm unaware of any historian by that name.
[I've heard of David Irving, but I'm unaware of any historian by that name.]
He claims to be a historian, in much the same way as the rightwingers of the world claim to love peace, and that they respect the environment...
His misuse of the word "all" is indicative of a young person. As well as the hot temper :)
And anybody who disagrees with him is automatically an anti-semite. What he doesn't know is that many dissenting posters here are Jewish. My best friend who reads this is a wonderful jewish merchant, who has taught me much about everything. I, like most Americans know little about Judaism. But that doesn't stop us from being close neighbors. That doesn't stop us from being first Americans and second Jews, Gentiles etc.
My Jewish friends are the most enlightened, sweetest most wonderful people you could ever want to meet. They are more secular realists who are quite concerned of not only the extreme right divergence of Israel, but of the US as well.
The strength of a society is in it's diversity and in it's free speech. To chill either one is to endanger the success of the nation.
I apologize to my friends here at CD if my earlier posts were uncomfortable or offensive. Perhaps, not being Jewish I don't understand the emotions involved with the subject of genocide. It bothers me that others like young xxx are oblivious to the bloodshed or worse are rationalizing it the way some neocons treat US torture.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
You proclaim a noble intent, but there is an underlying strain of exploiting the "unique" experience of Jews to silence any criticism of present Israeli policy. In fact Jewish organization have deliberately sought to suppress any recognition of the suffering of other groups. In fact you claim to want peace but don't even mention the suffering of the Palestinian at the hand of Israel- the truth that Israel seeks to deny or -instead continue to wail about the Jew being the singular victim. And that fills me with profound disgust.
I have only pointed out that the word "antisemitism" happens to be a word associated with Jews, while, for example "racist imperialism" might be a phrase better associated with Western attitudes toward Arabs. To say that historical experiences and the words we use to describe them are different for each people, ethnic nation and circumstance is hardly an effort to silence anyone. It is only an effort to be precise.
I have said not one word to suggest that Jews are a "singular" victim. Read what I wrote, not what you imagine that Jews think.
Of course "Jewish organizaiton(s)" have done bad things. Why argue the obvious. But not all of them, and not me. If you read further below I discuss Palestinian victimization and the nakba and the obvious fact that they are victims of victims, and I discuss how narratives of victimization have great value, so long as they can be used to understand the other... something that neither Palestinians nor Israelis have been very good at doing with their victimizaiton narratives. Nonetheless, the Palestinian situation is not "the same as" the Jewish situation because their victimization is on going, while Jewish deaths are currently fewer (although they have a bad enough effect as is.)
So your disgust may be based on assumptions that are not warranted... particularly if you read through below. Or maybe you just find my words disgusting. I don't know.