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Published on Wednesday, May 6, 2009 by CommonDreams.org
Who Will Stop the AIPAC Jews Before it is Too Late?
While I was being tackled by security guards at Washington's Convention Center during the AIPAC conference for unfurling a banner that asked "What about Gaza?," my heart was aching. I wasn't bothered so much by the burly guards who were yanking my arms behind by back and dragging me-along with 5 other CODEPINK members-out of the hall. They were doing their job.
What made my heart ache was the hatred I felt from the AIPAC staff who tore up the banner and slammed their hands across my mouth as I tried to yell out: "What about Gaza? What about the children?"
"Shut the f--- up. Shut the f--- up." one staffer yelled, red-faced and sweating as he ran beside me. "This is not the place to be saying that shit. Get the f--- out of here."
What makes my heart ache is thinking about the traumatized children I met on my recent trip to Gaza, and how their suffering is denied by the 6,000 AIPAC conventioneers who are living in a bubble-a bubble where Israel is the victim and all critics are anti-Semitic, terrorist lovers or, as in my case, self-hating Jews.
I found it fascinating that AIPAC's executive director Howard Kohr opened the conference admitting that there was now a huge, international campaign against the policies of Israel. He painted a picture of 30,000 people marching in Spain, Italian trade unionists calling for a boycott of Israeli products, the UN Human Rights Council passing 26 resolutions condemning Israel, an Israeli Apartheid Week that is building a global boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign.
This global movement, he warned, emanates from the Middle East, echoes in the halls of the United Nations and the capitals of Europe, is voiced in meetings of international peace organizations, and is spreading throughout the United States-from the media to town hall meetings, from campuses to city squares. "No longer is this campaign confined to the ravings of the political far left or far right," he lamented, "but increasingly it is entering the American mainstream."
But Kohr failed to explain why there has been such an explosion in this movement, even among the American Jewish community. He didn't tell the attendees that the world was shocked and outraged by Israel's devastating 22-day attack on Gaza that left over 1,300 people dead-mostly women and children. He didn't mention the killing of civilians fleeing their homes, the use of white phosphorous, the bombing of homes, schools, mosques, hospitals, UN buildings, factories. He didn't talk about the continuing, cruel blockade of the Gaza Strip that is keeping desperately needed humanitarian aid from reaching 1.5 million people and making rebuilding impossible.
There were no seminars at the conference by human rights groups like Amnesty International that are calling for an immediate and comprehensive suspension of arms to Israel. Instead, one after another, U.S. elected officials eager to curry favor with AIPAC pledged continued U.S. financial support for Israel. Senator Kerry, despite that fact that he was one of only a handful of legislators who visited Gaza, didn't say one word about the massive destruction he witnessed and pledged that as Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he would do everything to ensure that the $30 billion in military aid to Israel is "delivered in full." "America will continue our military aid, and Israel will keep its military strength," he insisted. Instead of calling for talks with the democratically elected government of Hamas, Kerry said: "Hamas has already won one election-we cannot allow them to win another." He ended his speech shouting several times in Hebrew, "Am Yisrael Chai-Israel lives!"
Even Vice President Biden, who at least told AIPAC that Israel should freeze new settlement activity, didn't say a word about the ongoing humanitarian crisis caused by Israel's invasion and continued blockade of Gaza. No U.S. officials, and there were hundreds at the conference, dared echo the call of the United Nations or the world community to lift the siege of Gaza.
Republican Congressman Eric Cantor was one of the most emotional speakers, portraying Israel as the victim of an evil global movement determined to wipe out Israel and all Jews. Evoking the "shivering, naked victims who were herded into the gas chambers," he wondered when it would become too late to protect Israel. "When is it too late?", he repeated over and over.
I wonder the same thing. When is it too late, I wonder, to stop Israel from destroying itself? When is it too late to tell AIPAC attendees that more violence and hatred is not the answer? When is it too late to open the hardened hearts of my people, once victims of a terrible holocaust, to realize that by occupying Palestine we have become they evil we deplore? When is it too late to restore meaning to the Hebrew term "tikkun olam" by truly working to heal the world? When is it too late for the Jews of the world to weep for the children of Gaza, recognizing that they, too, are the children of God?
I couldn't ask my questions at AIPAC. My mouth was muzzled by the sweaty hands of hate-filled staffers demanding that I "shut the f--- up." But despite AIPAC's massive funds and influence, I feel certain that more and more members of the Jewish community will step forward and refuse to be silent. I just pray it is not too late.
For information on upcoming delegations to Gaza, see www.codepinkalert.org/gaza.
What made my heart ache was the hatred I felt from the AIPAC staff who tore up the banner and slammed their hands across my mouth as I tried to yell out: "What about Gaza? What about the children?"
"Shut the f--- up. Shut the f--- up." one staffer yelled, red-faced and sweating as he ran beside me. "This is not the place to be saying that shit. Get the f--- out of here."
What makes my heart ache is thinking about the traumatized children I met on my recent trip to Gaza, and how their suffering is denied by the 6,000 AIPAC conventioneers who are living in a bubble-a bubble where Israel is the victim and all critics are anti-Semitic, terrorist lovers or, as in my case, self-hating Jews.
I found it fascinating that AIPAC's executive director Howard Kohr opened the conference admitting that there was now a huge, international campaign against the policies of Israel. He painted a picture of 30,000 people marching in Spain, Italian trade unionists calling for a boycott of Israeli products, the UN Human Rights Council passing 26 resolutions condemning Israel, an Israeli Apartheid Week that is building a global boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign.
This global movement, he warned, emanates from the Middle East, echoes in the halls of the United Nations and the capitals of Europe, is voiced in meetings of international peace organizations, and is spreading throughout the United States-from the media to town hall meetings, from campuses to city squares. "No longer is this campaign confined to the ravings of the political far left or far right," he lamented, "but increasingly it is entering the American mainstream."
But Kohr failed to explain why there has been such an explosion in this movement, even among the American Jewish community. He didn't tell the attendees that the world was shocked and outraged by Israel's devastating 22-day attack on Gaza that left over 1,300 people dead-mostly women and children. He didn't mention the killing of civilians fleeing their homes, the use of white phosphorous, the bombing of homes, schools, mosques, hospitals, UN buildings, factories. He didn't talk about the continuing, cruel blockade of the Gaza Strip that is keeping desperately needed humanitarian aid from reaching 1.5 million people and making rebuilding impossible.
There were no seminars at the conference by human rights groups like Amnesty International that are calling for an immediate and comprehensive suspension of arms to Israel. Instead, one after another, U.S. elected officials eager to curry favor with AIPAC pledged continued U.S. financial support for Israel. Senator Kerry, despite that fact that he was one of only a handful of legislators who visited Gaza, didn't say one word about the massive destruction he witnessed and pledged that as Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he would do everything to ensure that the $30 billion in military aid to Israel is "delivered in full." "America will continue our military aid, and Israel will keep its military strength," he insisted. Instead of calling for talks with the democratically elected government of Hamas, Kerry said: "Hamas has already won one election-we cannot allow them to win another." He ended his speech shouting several times in Hebrew, "Am Yisrael Chai-Israel lives!"
Even Vice President Biden, who at least told AIPAC that Israel should freeze new settlement activity, didn't say a word about the ongoing humanitarian crisis caused by Israel's invasion and continued blockade of Gaza. No U.S. officials, and there were hundreds at the conference, dared echo the call of the United Nations or the world community to lift the siege of Gaza.
Republican Congressman Eric Cantor was one of the most emotional speakers, portraying Israel as the victim of an evil global movement determined to wipe out Israel and all Jews. Evoking the "shivering, naked victims who were herded into the gas chambers," he wondered when it would become too late to protect Israel. "When is it too late?", he repeated over and over.
I wonder the same thing. When is it too late, I wonder, to stop Israel from destroying itself? When is it too late to tell AIPAC attendees that more violence and hatred is not the answer? When is it too late to open the hardened hearts of my people, once victims of a terrible holocaust, to realize that by occupying Palestine we have become they evil we deplore? When is it too late to restore meaning to the Hebrew term "tikkun olam" by truly working to heal the world? When is it too late for the Jews of the world to weep for the children of Gaza, recognizing that they, too, are the children of God?
I couldn't ask my questions at AIPAC. My mouth was muzzled by the sweaty hands of hate-filled staffers demanding that I "shut the f--- up." But despite AIPAC's massive funds and influence, I feel certain that more and more members of the Jewish community will step forward and refuse to be silent. I just pray it is not too late.
For information on upcoming delegations to Gaza, see www.codepinkalert.org/gaza.
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238 Comments so far
Show AllIt sounds to me, Medea, that you are one anti semitic Jew! How can you not love these fine people of AIPAC?
I sure hope this is satire. I hate to even have to make that comment but there are some rabid Israel supporters around.
'Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.' - Pete Townsend
"Self-hating Jew" is the correct term...
Yeah, I know people who have been called that for daring to confront fascist Israeli tactics. Always by upstanding members of the Jewish community.
Oregoncharles
I remember when Randi Rhodes (Air America) referred to her caller - advocating for third party voting - a "self-hating progressive!" I never again listened to her program.
People like this, who have no logical or moral argument, feel they have to resort to name calling. What they end up doing is discrediting themselves.
PS, Palestinians are Semites, too!
The reality of anyone who advocates for equality and peace for the Palestinians being called "anti-Semitic" is that THE PALESTINIANS ARE SEMITES!!!
The Zionists of Israel are NOT our friends. The majority of Israelis want to do the right thing but are allowing themselves to be controlled by fanatics. The Zionists are mentally sick.
REMEMBER THE LIBERTY!!! Israel _still_ refuses to admit that they KNEW they were attacking a US Navy ship in International waters.
Republican Congressman Eric Cantor was one of the most emotional speakers, portraying Israel as the victim of an evil global movement determined to wipe out Israel and all Jews.
As a Jew, I don't want to see all of us wiped out. But Eric Cantor? Frankly, you can wipe him out and it won't mean a thing to me. Au revoir, you stupid, nasty, totally corrupt Republican MoFo.
Totally agreed.
It's hard to dispute the proposition that Israel is "the victim of an evil global movement determined to wipe out Israel and all Jews."
It's just that there is a lot more going on than that, but for many people that is all they can see.
Even paranoid people can have real enemies.
But let there be peace.
Not yet there isn't, Mike. But if Israel keeps on the way it is, there will be.
I'm sure you'll be right at the head of the mob.... but not yet, right?
"all Jews"
Sure sure, collective punishment harms innocents, so to prevent harm to innocents, we have to get to the root of the conflict, which is the culture of privilege (cronyism, elitism, classism) that has been cultivated in the USA. We have to ban the building of privilege for any particular group, to protect the innocents of that group from collective punishment.
Collective punishment for the spoils of privilege must be prevented via our banishment of privilege. You wanna ban collective punishment? Let's ban privilege first and see if that doesn't fix about a million problems in one swell foop.
To ban privilege, we on the far left propose a grass roots approach that relieves the people from perilous dependence on the privilege-infested US congress:
We can shift all of our individual exchange/association away from the elites (the privileged) and to our local communities, bringing the economic/polical power back home where it belongs, eh? So we see that localism bans privilege. Localism is so broadly functional. Small wonder we on the far left adopt localism!
Exactly,
To regain our once just government will require economic isolation of the elite. Say the words; and get used to them:
NATIONAL BOYCOTT
NATIONAL STRIKE
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Israel isn't the *only* victim of Climate Change.
But I like the PR ring to it...
Lithuania: the victim of an evil global movement determined to wipe out Lithuania and all Lithuanians.
Indonesia: the victim of an evil global movement determined to wipe out Indonesia and all Indonesians.
.
.
.
I like it, it makes every country feel special, and see the urgency of the coming problems.
The zionist terrorists Irgun and Stern Gang confined themselves to murdering British Soldiers and Palestinian villagers, at the same time Hitler was slaughtering their fellow Jews. No help or prtection came from the zionist terrorists for the victims of the Holocaust.
Thank you Medea for being fearless and forthright in the face of friendly fascism...
Your words and actions resonate with honesty, intergity, and wisdom...
May you continue to inspire and awaken others to the uncomfortable truth...
Your courage and brilliant choice of tactics bring humor and light to dispell the darkness...
AIPAC uses the tired old racist slur against anyone who criticizes Israel: "Jew Hater" "Nazi Sympathizer" OR if you are Jewish like Dr. Norman Finkelstein, Dennis Bernstein, Joel Kovel et al. you are called "self hating Jew" etc.
People like Dr. Richard Falk (UN Rapportuer) have been called this as well as Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu.
When is someone in the MSM going to expose this disgusting practice as well as AIPAC thuggery and intimidation? As Benjamin points out, anti-Zionist US Jews must stand up to defy these neo-fascist deathmongers. One group who has begun to speak out is Jewish Voice for Peace.
There are some amazing Jewish and Israeli people and groups who speak out against Israel's policies, here are some:
http://www.btselem.org
http://www.gush-shalom.org
http://www.icahd.org
http://www.wrmea.com/jews_for_justice/1967war.html
http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_292.shtml
http://www.december18th.org
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/tags/index.jhtml?tag=Amira+Hass
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/tags/index.jhtml?tag=Gideon+Levy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/nevegordon
Another anti-AIPAC lobbying group is JStreet.org. Worth helping out with some spare cash if you have it.
Rainborowe
J Street is just a wolf in sheep clothing. When push comes to shove, they vote Israel first.
Do you have references?
Of course they are not anti-Israel--they're American Jews, for God's sake! They want Israel to exist. But they oppose the attitudes and policies of AIPAC and most American politicians for whom the far-right Likud can do no wrong and the Palestinians can do no right. They want a 2-state solution based on the 1967 green line. Check out their web-site.
Rainborowe
Of course the problem is that the opposition to Israel's existence and/or to its policies includes "Jew haters" and people of conscience, and nobody really knows what the proportions are.
As an opponent of Israel's policies I certainly do not feel welcome at most rallies opposing Israel's policies because these are generally places and events filled with self evident raw hatred of Jews.
I feel as hostile to most anti-Israeli political activity as I do to AIPAC. The extremes suck the oxygen out of the middle and out of peace, and leave no place for me to participate.
I am sorry you feel that way, I could not disagree more. What about all the "self-hating Jews? Are Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu "anti-Semitic"? as AIPAC says? Does AIPAC have any moral authority to label anyone? They are the ones who have deep-seated racism issues.
I believe real racists hate Arabs more than Jews (although both can be considered Semitic) and there are very few genuine anti-Semites in my experience, in the anti-Zionist movement. Dr. Norman Finkelstein explains this better than I can, I refer you to him: "Beyond Chutzpah: the misuse of anti-Semitism and the abuse of History".
By the way calling him a self-hating Jew has no effect.
I don't know any self hating Jews in a political sense, and I don't know what you are talking about in that regard.
You can read through the comments on this blog and see more than enough anti-Jewish animus to last a lifetime.
Nobody can see into the heart and know what true feelings lurk there - we listen to the words and we draw what conclusions we can.
"Real racists"? A racist hates on the basis of race, an "antisemite" has got a slightly different disease involving race and religion and ideology. I don't think competitive victimization is a healthy game.
The fact that Arabs are semites is a really pointless semantic argument - antisemitism is a word that refers, for good reason, to a unique kind of hatred focussed at Jews. Sorry that we got our own special word, but in European history we were a kind of unique case. Anti Arab hatred is no less serious an issue, but like each hatred and conflict it has its own unique history. Calling it "antisemitism" is frankly silly and unhelpful. It is still very bad in its own very bad and unique way.
Maybe you think all sorts of things that I think are antisemitism... just aren't, so you give the "antiZionist movement" a clean bill of health. Is Hamas part of your antiZionist movement? How about Hizbollah? How about Iran? These are all complicated organizations and nations with lots of people who feel lots of different things, but they are shot through with expressions of hatred to the very existence of Jews as a political nation in its land, to the fundamental legitimacy of Jews as an indigenous and sovereign people in Palestine. I call that antisemitism, and I call it an extension of the antisemitism of the Catholic church and the German and Soviet states, translated to the modern middle eastern context.
Go to any antiIsrael rally in the US and you will here blood curdling calls for the destruction of the state of Israel, blood curdling because it is all that stands between the lives of most of its citizens and death.
Oh sure, you'll also hear fine promises that Jews will have their individual rights in the glorious state of the future, which any rational person would take about as seriously as a promise of a happy working life in one of those great German work camps in eastern Poland.
So you and I may have different ways of measuring what is in people's hearts.
If you grow up in a Christian nation like the U.S. you learn that Christian love is generally a form of hatred, rebranded, which accepts YOU only if you change yourself to its model. Real love and acceptance involves accepting other people as they really are, not as we would have them be. And real peace involves people working together to find a way to accept the other as it really is.
Anyway, a two state solution is out there to be had. AIPAC and the current Israeli government are working against it, but we'll get there, and from a position of mutual recognition of their sovereign national rights in their shared homeland, Jews and Palestinians will ultimately forge some kind of binational federated whatchamcallit in the land of Israel and Palestine.
Thanks for this reasonable post. It's too rare to find comments on articles about Israel that aren't full of despicable rhetoric.
Good post, mike2.
Wow - a post full of sturm und drang, with all the old cliches. Hatred for Jews? Psaw. Anti-Semetism means anti-Zionism now that it is used against people who actually like Jews and not used against Jew haters who support Israel.
You want to claim black is white and then expect us to believe it. The only thing blood curdling is the oppression of the Palestinians.
[anti-Jewish animus to last a lifetime.]
I don't see that, I've seen most posters be quite clear about the fact that it's the Israeli gov't and it's supporters who are being criticized, unless they're all the jews in the world the postings aren't anti-Jewish.
[ Sorry that we got our own special word, but in European history we were a kind of unique case]
No, you're not. The armenians were slaughtered by the turks back in 1915. The Cathar's were the victims of a different crusade in the middle ages. To name but two times that europeans have attempted to wipe out an entire 'race' of humans. Genocides have happened at a nausiating rate thruout history, and no, we haven't learned how to stop them from happening. Just ask the people of Rwanda how well we've done at the idea of 'never again'.
[Anyway, a two state solution is out there to be had.]
What a great idea, having two more states in the world that will have their identities based on religion and/or race. Hasn't worked in any other country that's tried it, but hey, 510,125,221st's times the charm, eh?
The vast majority of Jews in the world support Israel. Most discourse bleeds from opposition to the "Israel government" to opposition to the Israeli State to opposition to Zionism to opposition to Jews. It's difficult to be certain where people stand in blog comments or at rallies, and often their statements are strategically parsed so that the objection is only to the "government"... but it is fairly plain that their objection is to indigenous Jewish political power in the land of Palestine itself... ie. it's Zionism they are after, or Jews they are after.
Re, antisemitism, sorry again, but antisemitism and the condition of the Jewish diaspora is a rather unique case in European history. I didn't say that genocide against the Jews was unique. We're well aware of the Roma people and the Armenians and many others, but there was an historical phenomenon involving Jews in Europe called "antisemitism" (involving specific issues in European and Christian culture and its relationship to Jewish ideas and communities and historical relationships) and it is sophomoric to include Arabs in that discourse under the label of "antisemitism" on the basis of an etymological relationship. Western colonialism against Arabs, centuries of efforts at domination, control and extermination is a whole other issue of racism, parallel to antisemitism, but unique also.
Re Two state solutions, actually, ethnonational states are the norm around the world, with obvious (partial) exceptions in the U.S. and a few other cases, and even there ethno-nationalism is a deep part of the structure of the state. Does it "work"? No, it's got problems everywhere, but I see no reason for the Jews or the Palestinians to volunteer to sacrifice their national ambitions because France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Japan etc. etc. reveal the problems of using ethnonationalism as the basis of the modern state. People love to volunteer the vulnerable people and peoples of the world for experiments that they would never subject themselves too.
I believe that the better world we all seek lies through the path of realized and moderated national ambitions not though utopian efforts to transcend them. That's a much longer discussion, but it constitutes the core case for a Palestinian state, and for a Jewish state, which may prove to be the starting point for confederations and new forms of political organization... but are essential first steps at least.
I want for Palestinians what I want for Jews, political sovereignty in a state of their own in their homeland, the one that we share deep historical ties to.
You proclaim a noble intent, but there is an underlying strain of exploiting the "unique" experience of Jews to silence any criticism of present Israeli policy. In fact Jewish organization have deliberately sought to suppress any recognition of the suffering of other groups. In fact you claim to want peace but don't even mention the suffering of the Palestinian at the hand of Israel- the truth that Israel seeks to deny or -instead continue to wail about the Jew being the singular victim. And that fills me with profound disgust.
I have only pointed out that the word "antisemitism" happens to be a word associated with Jews, while, for example "racist imperialism" might be a phrase better associated with Western attitudes toward Arabs. To say that historical experiences and the words we use to describe them are different for each people, ethnic nation and circumstance is hardly an effort to silence anyone. It is only an effort to be precise.
I have said not one word to suggest that Jews are a "singular" victim. Read what I wrote, not what you imagine that Jews think.
Of course "Jewish organizaiton(s)" have done bad things. Why argue the obvious. But not all of them, and not me. If you read further below I discuss Palestinian victimization and the nakba and the obvious fact that they are victims of victims, and I discuss how narratives of victimization have great value, so long as they can be used to understand the other... something that neither Palestinians nor Israelis have been very good at doing with their victimizaiton narratives. Nonetheless, the Palestinian situation is not "the same as" the Jewish situation because their victimization is on going, while Jewish deaths are currently fewer (although they have a bad enough effect as is.)
So your disgust may be based on assumptions that are not warranted... particularly if you read through below. Or maybe you just find my words disgusting. I don't know.
"I have said not one word to suggest that Jews are a "singular" victim."
From your post of May 6th, 2009 8:32 pm: "in European history we were a kind of unique case."
Well that is certainly true in the sense that the history that led up to Jewish victimization goes back to the early origins of Christianity and thus built on a deep cultural antipathy and entanglement. The uniqueness of the Jewish circumstance has a lot to do with the mythological role played by Jews in the Christian theodicy.
Those same circumstances explain why there developed a unique word: "antisemitism" to describe this hatred.
But the uniqueness of that case doesn't imply that the Roma people or the Armenians or the Ukrainians in the 1930s or so many others are not also victims of genocide, or that many other European ethnic minorities did not suffer horribly for their own unique circumstances. I would never suggest that. I was responding specifically to the appropriation of the word "antisemitism" based on an uninformed etymological explanation.
The circumstances of Jewish victimization and diaspora explain the rise of Zionism. We can also say that the circumstances of the decline of the Ottoman empire and Western imperialism in the Arab world explain the rise of Arab nationalism. These are all unique circumstances that have to be understood on their own terms.
I, like a growing number of Americans am not buying this pretend Two-state solution that AIPAC and it's apologists mouth.
The misuse of the phrase "anti-Semitic" occurred because Jews perceived themselves as chosen people; a people distinct from Palestinians.
My understanding is that this was before DNA testing revealed that the Sumerian descendants of Israel/Palestine have interbred over millennium. Jews (Semites) and Palestinians (Semites) are close relatives. Many Jews like Nut-an-Yahoo are really Europeans even though they incorrectly accuse their critics of being "Anti-Semitic".
But I find that Mike2's lack of empathy for the victims in Israel's concentration camps is most revealing.
There will never be peace in the mid-east with these type of attitudes. But even though peace must be the professed goal with the right wing of Israel, it is far from their hawkish intent. We should remove all support from Israel and let them fend for themselves. If Palestine has no right to exist, then neither should Israel.
And we should have Yale amend Skull and Bones chants to omit superstitious reverence for Jerusalem. Next time we get another weak minded son-of-a-president in charge, hopefully he will be able to separate symbolic ritual from reality!
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Since nobody ever seems to talk about it, and you brought up the "pretend two-state solution"...how do you think a single state should work? Normal parliamentary-style system, where eventually the Palestinian demographic effects would turn the present-day Israelis into a minority? Or some sort of fixed, agreed-upon representation system like Lebanon has? Or something else altogether?
Good Question zmann,
I recall reading this exact dilemma in 1775. The south had a greater population advantage due to it slaves which were shipped in by New England slave ships. The 3/5 solution hardly seemed righteous but that's what they came up with.
I would bend towards any system that was democratically hammered out. You don't want the average Palestinian voting for international issues because he hasn't been to a real school in his life (just like Faux News viewers.) A Senate for international affairs with equal Jew and Palestinian senators, and a house based on raw population numbers. But unlike the U.S. system, you need to have a separate Judiciary that puts lobbyists in jail, not appointed by a unitary executive, but rather by a seven member council as Ben Franklin suggested (he was over-ruled.)
But I am partial to the western model of government, when it is not terrorized by the twin spectors of MIC and Wall Street. I'm sure there's many other forms of government that would serve these close relatives: I just maintain that they must be free to hammer it out themselves: nothing must be imposed. Meanwhile, back at the nut house: It's going to take us decades to undo the damage from the Cannibalistic Capitalism Monster that has destabilized the world.
Any ideas anyone, how we can get our own house in order?
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
"Pretend"?
I think there will be two states with a border roughly like the 1948 to 1967 border with some kind of shared or partitioned sovereignty arrangement in Jerusalem, and with a Palestinian minority living in the Jewish state and a Jewish minority living in the Palestinian state.
I also think that once that is established and operating for some years or decades it is possible, if we dare to be optimistic, that there will be a gradual lowering of the legal and physical walls between the two states and societies, growing social political economic interaction.... even movement toward a single state over decades.
I also think however that there will be an IDF hovering in the background, and that it will be counterbalanced by pan-Arab and Palestinian military forces. In short, even as societies draw closer together, and people recognize each other's mutual humanity from a position of citizenship in their nation states, the possibility that it could all go to hell and we'd have to fight to survive we'll not be forgotten... not by Jews or Arabs.
But what do I know?
I cannot hope for more for my brother than that which I hope for myself.... if you think that makes me an AIPAC apologist then I just don't see your reasoning.
To understand how rabbinic thought treats the "chosen" idea as a burden rather than a gift you'd have to do some studying. Hint: it's about being chosen to have responsibilities among other things. I suggest a class in comparative religions or a conversation with a rabbi if you are struggling with that concept.
Your understanding about DNA testing is completely and utterly confused. "Antisemitism" is a word that itself embodies a misunderstanding, the misunderstanding of the victimizers that their hatred was directed toward a race when in fact of course European Jews became a mixed race ethnonationality, interbred with local peoples, having predominantly middle eastern ancestry, but hated for their beliefs as much as their origins, etc. etc. Etymology will not teach you about cultural history nor win or lose political arguments - at most it will enable some people to demonstrate their ignorance from time to time.
I don't know how you come to the belief that I lack empathy for Palestinians, but I assure you that I do not lack such empathy and I think my comments here reflect that. Sorry you don't see it.
Finally, you start talking about "these types of attitudes" and the right wing in Israel. Do you seriously think that my attitudes reflect the views of the right wing? If so you are badly misinformed. And if you wish to lump me with them, then you are doing what our right wingers do... lumping every Palestinian together with the most radical terrorist organizations. I'm sure that's emotionally satisfying for those who do it, but it is also fully delusional.
mike2 said:
"To understand how rabbinic thought treats the "chosen" idea as a burden rather than a gift you'd have to do some studying. Hint: it's about being chosen to have responsibilities among other things. I suggest a class in comparative religions or a conversation with a rabbi if you are struggling with that concept."
TJ says:
Hint: I actually don't struggle with those concepts. I require no brainwashing session with a witchdoctor, astrologer, high-priest or other mystic. I reject your "chosen one" concept: out of hand entirely. I reject religion entirely. You misunderstand me greatly sir, if you think I need to study your ancient superstitions or cult intimidation techniques to keep your clan goose-stepping in the chosen direction.
The confluence of religion and government in Israel is abhorrent to me. It is why the region is unstable. You cannot have freedom of religion (which I champion) until you institute a secular government which threatens no one. And until you do that, you will not have peace in the region, imho.
I agree with those who say, Vern included, that the undercurrent of your posts display a contempt for non-"unique" races/cultures/ideologies, such as yours. Apparently, your suffering in WWII is special, while the thousands killed and suffering in Gaza is not worth mentioning.
Perhaps the perceived persecution you seem to be alluding to in your posts, such as: I'm sure you'll be at the head of the mob" etc, are not racial or anti-sementic concerns at all. Perhaps you are really concerned about objections to AIPAC banking practices and the unfair influence they have upon the US government.
Would your name be Bernard Madeoff per chance? ;-)
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Oh dear. You've apparently confused the scientific study of comparative religious thought with religion. There is a difference you know.
For your information there is no "chosen one" concept in Jewish thought, so feel free to reject something that doesn't exist in Jewish thought if it gives you pleasure. You may be thinking of the Matrix movie, but I don't know.
If you want to attack something you simply have to know what it is you are attacking. You've amply demonstrated the lack of even the remotest familiarity with the ideas that you believe you are opposed to. Really, you are embarrassing yourself... or would be, if you knew what you were saying.
Since there are no non-unique races or cultures I am unable to have contempt for them.... and I've plainly stated that. The uniqueness of peoples and their experiences has been the whole point of several comments I've made on the matter. Feel free to go on misconstruing my words if it gives you pleasure.
The "specialness" of WWII involved one set of issues, the specialness of Gaza a different set of issues... some overlap, many differences. In Europe there happened to have developed a special word for prejudice against the Jews because there is a special form of racial/religious/ethnic hatred there. Elsewhere, say in Gaza there is a different form of violence, and it deserves to be understood on its own terms... it certainly doesn't involve at its core Christianity and its perception of Judaism!
I can't be any clearer than that. Your desire to impute to me beliefs that I have not expressed is your problem entirely.
And then my dear, you do not disappoint!
BANKING! I knew I could count on you to get there. Ooohhh and Bernie Madoff! Nice shot!
When we're talking about Jews, it always turns out that banking is involved doesn't it? One thing you've got to love about antisemites is their reliability ... They can start all reasonable and dispassionate (maybe) at the outset, but hang out a little while and in the end they show their hand! Dual Loyalty! Banking! Madoff!!
Thank you TJ, you've made my day and my case. You'll find your rock over there on the right. Feel free to crawl back under it.
I've got to see how I can get my check from the Jewish banking conspiracy started again ... I haven't seen that thing in years.
mike2 said:
The "specialness" of WWII involved one set of issues, the specialness of Gaza a different set of issues... some overlap, many differences. In Europe there happened to have developed a special word for prejudice against the Jews because there is a special form of racial/religious/ethnic hatred there. Elsewhere, say in Gaza there is a different form of violence, and it deserves to be understood on its own terms... it certainly doesn't involve at its core Christianity and its perception of Judaism!"
TJ says:
What issues make the"specialness" (sic) different? How is Genocide severity somehow unique in WWII but not applicable to Gaza? I've already explained to you that jews and Palestinians are 99.999% identical in genetic makeup. It follows that criticism of the Palestinians is Anti-semitic also - since they are Semites too.
Could it be that the term was originally coined to disparage criticism of certain business/banking dealings under the guise of racism? Racism! Racism! That's all we've heard for fifty years from Israel. Now that we find out they are close cousins with the Muslim brown people in Gaza and the West Bank, they apparently don't want to afford these walking skeletons the same anti-semantic protection. They, and you it appears, want to go so far as to change the very definition of the word to exclude people who have land and water they want to steal. To pretend the phrase is about culture and political views not race. Anti-Semitic laws were passed to prevent racism, not to protect illegal banking or justify genocide.
Instead of protecting them, the israeli government wants to murder them in cold blood. Women and children all, it makes no difference to the Israeli army. And the whole world knows it. So what is the difference between a gas chamber and missiles? Both produce death. Perhaps your vast studies in world religions were devoid of the subject of common decency and morality?
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
You are dishonest. You plead your case in a reasonable manner after making reactionary claims. It is a semantic manuever serving to duck the content of your posts.
Sounds like you find my claims to be supported by reason.... but are unwilling to allow my reasonable arguments to influence your view of the claims.
I'll take the complement and invite you to consider that some of my claims may not be as "reactionary" as you think.
[Most discourse bleeds from opposition to the "Israel government" to opposition to the Israeli State to opposition to Zionism to opposition to Jews.]
The slippery slope arguement. Wonderful. I have criticised the Isreali Gov't for years now, but have not ever thought that a solution to palistine could be achieved by blaming all the jews for the lunatics who live within their midst. Refutation by personal experience.
Racism is racism is racism. Just as humans are humans. There aren't more 'special' forms of hatred, and no group of humans are immune from the insidious nature of hating others.
I disagree, as an historian. Hatreds have colors, shades, nuances and meanings just as loves do.
We understand more when we are precise about what drives conflict culturally, politically economically.
A historian are you? Who'd you study under? David Irving?
I mean only that I am a reader of history ... no claim of professional authority intended.
I mean that your grasp of history seems as accurate as that of the rather infamous Irving. I'm surprised that you didn't damn me for being an anti-semite for daring to bring up the name of the holocaust denying 'historian' David Irving. Surely someone who's as quick to denounce all things anti-semitic you'd have known the name?
Methinks you're the new screen name for joeblow, or whatever his name was...
mike2 is the only screen name I've ever used here.
I've heard of David Irving, but I'm unaware of any historian by that name.