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Not the Better Part of Valor: Obama's Duty to Prosecute Torturers
In response to a Freedom of Information Act request by the ACLU, President Obama released four Bush-era memos that describe unimaginably brutal techniques and provide "legal" justification for clearly illegal acts of torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. In the face of monumental pressure from the CIA to keep them secret, Obama demonstrated great courage in deciding to make the grotesque memos public. At the same time, however, in an attempt to pacify the intelligence establishment, Obama said, "it is our intention to assure those who carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice that they will not be subject to prosecution." He guaranteed free legal representation for CIA employees investigated by Congress or international tribunals, and indemnification for any financial judgments rendered against them.
Obama's intent to immunize those who violated our laws banning torture and cruel treatment violates the President's constitutional duty to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed."
The memos
The memo dated August 1, 2002 was signed by Jay Bybee, and the other three memos, dated May 10, 2005, were signed by Stephen Bradbury.
In startlingly clinical and dispassionate terms, the authors of the newly-released torture memos describe and then rationalize why the devastating techniques the CIA sought to employ on human beings do not violate the Torture Statute (18 U.S.C. sec. 2340).
The memos justify 10 techniques, including banging heads into walls 30 times in a row, prolonged nudity, repeated facial and abdominal slapping, dietary manipulation, and dousing with cold water as low as 41 degrees. They allow shackling in a standing position for 180 hours, sleep deprivation for 11 days, confinement of people in small dark boxes with insects for hours, and waterboarding to create the perception they are drowning. Moreover, the memos permit many of these techniques to be used in combination for a 30-day period. They find that none of these techniques constitute torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.
Waterboarding, admittedly the most serious of the methods, is designed, according to Bybee, to induce the perception of "suffocation and incipient panic, i.e. the perception of drowning." But although Bybee finds that "the use of the waterboard constitutes a threat of imminent death," he accepts the CIA's claim that it does "not anticipate that any prolonged mental harm would result from the use of the waterboard." As psychologist Jeffrey Kaye points out, the CIA and the Justice Department "ignored a wealth of other published information" that indicates dissociative symptoms, changes greater than those in patients undergoing heart surgery, and drops in testosterone to castration levels after acute stress associated with techniques that the memos sanction.
The Torture Statute punishes conduct, or conspiracy to engage in conduct, specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering. "Severe mental pain or suffering" means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from either the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering, or from the threat of imminent death.
Bybee asserts that "if a defendant acts with the good faith belief that his actions will not cause such suffering, he has not acted with specific intent." He makes the novel claim that the presence of personnel with medical training who can stop the interrogation if medically necessary "indicates that it is not your intent to cause severe physical pain."
Now a federal judge with lifetime appointment, Bybee concludes that waterboarding does not constitute torture under the Torture Statute. However, he writes, "we cannot predict with confidence whether a court would agree with this conclusion."
The Bush administration claimed it only used waterboarding three times. But a footnote in one of Bradbury's memos says waterboarding was utilized "with far greater frequency than initially indicated" with "large volumes of water" rather than small quantities as required by the CIA's rules.
Bybee's memo explains why the 10 techniques could be used on Abu Zubaydah, who was considered to be a top Al Qaeda operative. "Zubaydah does not have any pre-existing mental conditions or problems that would make him likely to suffer prolonged mental harm from [the CIA's] proposed interrogation methods," the CIA told Bybee. But Zubaydah was a low-ranking Al Qaeda operative, according to leading FBI counter-terrorism expert Dan Coleman, who advised a top FBI official, "This guy is insane, certifiable, split personality." This was reported by Ron Suskind in his book, The One Percent Doctrine.
The CIA's request to confine Zubaydah in a cramped box with an insect was granted by Bybee, who told the CIA it could place a harmless insect in the box and tell Zubaydah that it will sting him but it won't kill him. Even though the CIA knew that Zubaydah had an irrational fear of insects, Bybee found there would be no threat of severe physical pain or suffering if it followed this procedure.
Another noxious aspect of these memos is the use of medical professionals to enable the torture and cruel treatment. They are on hand to monitor the victims to make sure they come close to death, but don't actually die. But the medical personnel may well allow the abuse to cause severe physical pain and do nothing to stop it until the victim reaches the point of impending death. One of Bradbury's memos requires that a physician be on duty during waterboarding to perform a tracheotomy in case the victim doesn't recover after being returned to an upright position.
Employing a standard used to measure due process violations, Bradbury concluded that "the CIA interrogation techniques, with their careful screening procedures and medical monitoring, do not ‘shock the conscience,'" and thus were not cruel, inhuman or degrading. It is difficult to imagine how the techniques described above would fail to shock the conscience of any human being.
Obama's refusal to faithfully execute the law
The Constitution requires the President to enforce the law against both the petty thief who stole salmon from the market, and the CIA agent who tortured or abused a prisoner.
Our law prohibits torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment, and requires that those who subject people to such treatment be prosecuted. The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman and Degrading Treatment or Punishment compels us to refer all torture cases for prosecution or extradite the suspect to a country that will undertake a criminal investigation. The Geneva Conventions proclaim an "obligation" to bring those who have committed torture and cruel treatment before our "own courts." The Torture Convention and the Geneva Conventions are both part of U.S. law under the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution, which says, "all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land." Two federal statutes - the Torture Statute and the War Crimes Act (torture is a war crime) - provide for life imprisonment and even the death penalty if the victim dies from torture.
Obama has made a political calculation to seek amnesty for the CIA torturers. He expressed his "intention" to protect people who relied in good faith on Justice Department advice. However, good faith reliance on superior orders was rejected as a defense at Nuremberg and in Lt. Calley's Vietnam-era trial for the My Lai Massacre. The Torture Convention provides unequivocally, "An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification for torture."
There is evidence that the CIA was using the illegal techniques as early as April 2002, three to four months before the August memo was written. That would eliminate "good faith" reliance on Justice Department advice as a "defense" to prosecution. And Obama did not say he favored amnesty for those who set the policy - which would include Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, Ashcroft and Gonzales who comprised the Principals Committee that authorized the torture and Bush who approved of it. Nor did Obama include in his intended amnesty the lawyers - like Yoo, Bybee, Bradbury, Addington and Haynes - whose opinions under girded the policy.
When ABC's George Stephanopoulos asked Rahm Emanuel on Sunday, "What about the people who designed the policies?", Emmanuel said the President doesn't support their prosecution either.
But the decision about whether and who to prosecute is up to the Attorney General, Eric Holder. If Holder continues to carry out Obama's political agenda by resisting investigations and prosecution, Congress can, and should, authorize the appointment of a special independent prosecutor to do what the law requires.
The Watergate scandal led to the enactment of the Ethics in Government Act. Three years after Richard Nixon resigned rather than face impeachment, President Carter asked Congress to pass a law authorizing the appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate and prosecute unlawful acts by high government officials. The bill empowered the attorney general to conduct a preliminary 90-day investigation when serious allegations arose involving a high government official.
Under the act, the attorney general could drop the investigation if he determined it was unsupported by the evidence. But if he found some merit to the charges, he was required to apply to a three-judge panel of federal court judges who would appoint a special prosecutor to investigate, prosecute, and issue a report. This procedure was used to appoint Kenneth Starr, whose witch hunt led to Bill Clinton's impeachment. In reaction, Congress allowed the independent counsel statute to expire by its own terms in 1999. It's time for the people to demand that Congress enact an independent counsel statute.
Universal jurisdiction
What happens if the United States
government refuses to prosecute those who ordered, justified and carried out the
torture and abuse? Other countries will launch criminal investigations of
U.S. nationals under universal
jurisdiction. See Spain Investigates What
America Should
[http://marjoriecohn.com/2009/
Indeed prosecutors in Spain decided to file criminal charges against Yoo, Bybee, Gonzales, Haynes, Addington and Feith for torture. But in a rare move, Candido Conde-Pumpido, Spain's attorney general, overruled the prosecutors' decision, saying the case had "no merit" because the six men were not present when the abuse took place and it was up to the United States to prosecute.
Universal jurisdiction is used to prosecute foreign nationals when their own country refuses to prosecute. Adoph Eichmann, often called "the architect of the Holocaust," was tried, convicted and executed by Israel for crimes unconnected to Israel. He orchestrated the deportations but was not necessarily present at the gas chambers when millions were murdered.
Curiously, Conde-Pumpido's decision followed discussions between the U.S. and Spanish governments in which the Obama administration strongly suggested that charges against the six would be "inconvenient," according to Scott Horton of Harpers. Apparently and unfortunately, Obama is following the same tack Bush took by pressuring countries to back down on universal jurisdiction prosecutions.
The Spanish case is not dead, however. Judge Baltasar Garzon, who issued the arrest warrant for Augusto Pinochet in 1998, still has the power to determine whether the case will proceed.
Ultimately, it is up to Obama to fulfill his constitutional duty to ensure that the laws are faithfully executed. As he seems inclined to shirk that duty, it is up to us to pressure him, and Congress to hold accountable, those who violate our laws. Obama said that "nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past." He is wrong. There is more to gain from upholding the rule of law. It will make future leaders think twice before they authorize the cruel, illegal treatment of other human beings.
- Posted in
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55 Comments so far
Show AllRefusal to uphold Constitutional obligations is a violation of Obama's oath of office and an impeachable offence...can anyone out there dispute this? Humans were murdered in custody. Failure to prosecute those responsible equals complicity. What am I missing?
"Humans were murdered in custody"
Where did this happen? And when?
Thomas, that you could profess ignorance of such when any person can find hundreds of reports of the same suggests to me you Are deliberately FILTERING what you take into that head of yours.
The reports of Murder of prisoners in US Custody goes right back to the taguba report and has been followed up by many others.
The question has to be asked. Why are you not aware of such? There was an article by Mr Mcgovern on this very thing a few days back.
GW
This article pertains to the torture in Guantanamo as I read it. The references were to that and as far as I know, no one died there, though I could be mistaken, but hundreds?
Have I misread it? I'll go back and read it again.
I reread it and that is still what it looks like to me. The specific mention of Holder I believe confirms it for me.
Mea Culpa! Read below.
One article I found rather quickly..there are others..just do not have time right now....http://www.politicsofhealth.org/main/the_torture_files
Sorry my friend, where you said "humans" I read "hundreds"....its simply old age I presume. I beg your pardon for wasting your time.
No problem..but, at least a hundred (released figure...likely many more) are missing from custody in other facilities. ....from an article yesterday on CD.
Hi Thomas, I don't have the link, sorry, but perhaps someone can provide the article I read not so long ago describing a mobile CIA corpse disposal unit that can be called upon by the "extraordinary rendition" agents. They use, perhaps acid to dissolve the body of a victim of "enhanced interrogations" gone wrong. Sounds charming, doesn't it?
Charming doesn't begin to describe something like that.
You are uninformed, ThomasMore. I won't waste my calories searching for the relevant articles, you can do your own homework. Most of us true progressives and patriots who uphold our Constitution rather than some 4- or 8-year politician have read the reports over the last 8 years about all the detainees who have died while being interrogated by US soldiers and CIA agents. Out of 100 detainees who died in US custody since 2002, 27 of them were ruled "homicides" by an US Army internal investigation.
Did the Army try and imprison the soldiers/CIA agents who committed those 27 murders?
Of course not.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, "It Cant Happen Here", 1935
Demonstorm
Read ALL the postings above.
"Most of us true progressives and patriots who uphold our Constitution"
I'm certainly happy to hear that you support the Constitution and are a patriot.
Almost all Liberals do and are too.
Who knows how many of the "suicides" in Gitmo were homicides?
What I am not sure of is the report I heard that 33% of the male Iraqi prisoners in USA military custody in Iraq died while in custody.
Then we have Black Sites where we will never know how many die.
Then detainees are dying in Bagram.
Then The NA sufficated 100's of Taliban in shipping containers and the USA forces did not object.
I am sorry to say whatever feeble prosecution Obama allows,it will be a slap on the wrist whitewash.
You are missing the fact that obviously the Obama administration finds the whole thing an unpleasant can of worms, doesn't want to confront a previous administration, doesn't want to deal with the political repercussions, and hopes it will all blow over if the president uses his "move past it toward the future" rhetoric enough.
Fun as it is to imagine Dick Cheyney being perp walked by the world's cameras, I doubt that it or anything else much will happen. But I would be delighted to be proven wrong. To all agitating on this issue, keep after 'em!
Want to bet its no more than a photo op for Congress and the only folks you will see there are lawyers that gave a legal opinion? That made no judgement on what to do. Gave no orders to do anything? That will be exonerated because of these very facts.
Cheney? Blue Sky wishing I'd say.
The Constitution requires the President to enforce the law against both the petty thief who stole salmon from the market, and the CIA agent who tortured or abused a prisoner.
---------------------
Nobody suspects the salmon thief of splattering JFK's head into the back seat of his car. Or other craftsmanship beneficial to mortuary workers worldwide.
Perhaps this is why Obama ran to Langley to deliver prepared remarks letting the agents know they're still BFF.
(An act that'll certainly have terrible repercussions in the coming years.)
Obama seems to be an information gatherer, who takes little or no action until he has satisfactory information.
Now that "torture" dominates MSM, the blogosphere, foreign government and advocates for the abused, information is flowing at a fast and furious pace.
There are thousands of investigative reporters overturning every rock. There are quite a few remaining rocks to be overturned.
Karpinsky exposed several new rocks on Keith last night. Let Cheney hang himself (and others) through his mad ramblings. More rocks to oveerturn.
There are quite a few others who have been implicated. Let's get them sputtering as soon as possible. They are pyschopaths who will turn in each other to save their sorry asses - it won't work, but lots of info will lead to even more rocks.
Can anyone get me out of this rock thing ???
You are likely stuck with the rock thing for quite a bit, since there have been at least 8 years of crawling under them.
Incidentally, did you notice Zelikow doing some squirming the night before on Rachel?
Not one District Attorney has filed criminal charges against any of these perp's.
NOT one. What does this say about the law in the USA?
The leadership can do no wrong.
'Obama said that "nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past." He is wrong.'
Key words "laying blame for the past." It is a habitual knee jerk reaction to try to "fix" the past with prosecutions, executions, or anything else needed to cover over wounds by laying blame on one part of the humanity involved. Don't be so quick to say he is wrong. Laying blame for the past does nothing to heal the present. Perhaps let's proceed, but proceed with caution is the message.
I believe Obama is thinking of upholding eternal spiritual principles and laws. Also, I believe he is trying to lead us to begin to lead ourselves, in line with our spiritual reality.
Is the goal of prosecuting to "narrow down" the list of who is responsible? And then what, call for the death penalty? To erase the guilty?
What if what has caused all these evil things to transpire goes beyond a few culpable individuals? What if these individuals have served to teach us that the source that causes the evil goes out in concentric circles beyond individuals who can be named? If guilt is laid upon individuals, then what can be healed beyond that circle? How can the whole nation examine itself if the focus is on laying blame upon certain individuals? If individuals are condemned, are we all condemned?
What I am confused about is this carnival air right about now as if anything new or unknown (other than explicit details) has come to light with the release of memos. I mean, what didn't we all know already, for years now, enough to know, which is that torture was taking place? (Unless only tuned in to Idol, Dancing With the Stars, and sports, etc. ... Say, is that the majority? Are people who refused to participate in their own government responsible, or just the innocent?)
"There is more to gain from upholding the rule of law. It will make future leaders think twice before they authorize the cruel, illegal treatment of other human beings." That simple? Then why didn't the Nuremberg trials make future leaders think twice? We have been witnessing the facility of twisting men's laws because we make them so "complex" that we pretend we have to call upon experts to "interpret" them. The rule of law is becoming a joke and what we need to do is throw out our joke of a code of laws and make a new plain and simple version. One set of our law books must weigh tons and yet lawlessness reigns supreme, doesn't it?
What is needed is thorough investigations of all that has transpired, beyond evidence needed for prosecutions. This WHOLE nation needs to examine itself.
Not saying never to prosecute, just don't start there. Let's see first what investigations reveal and let's make a decision as a nation to openly examine where we've been on many fronts. Isn't this what will call for new national policy or national decisions going forward?
My goal too is to prevent any more cruelty toward fellow human beings, and for this nation to become a leader in world peace, not world war, death and violence.
To continue a bit from our conversation yesterday. To put it succinctly, what good are laws if there is no enforcement? And what does this say for the millions in jail for relatively minor offences. What does one say to them?
The facts will continue to be revealed...such is the nature of truth, once the impetus is underway. But, when most of the truth is out, consequences must be paid.
We cannot wait for the full colonic to cleanse the past sins of the US...we would be waiting forever. Justice is meant to be swift.
I'd ask what good are laws if you practice selective compliance?
Your point about millions in jail for minor offences is a good one and points to the need to clarify our laws and get rid of bad ones like mandatory sentencing.
In the end though, if it is the law you cannot pick and choose which ones you obey or enforce. If you do, you become a bannana republic.
"My goal too is to prevent any more cruelty toward fellow human beings, and for this nation to become a leader in world peace, not world war, death and violence."
Which is achieved by not recognizing it--or brushing it under the rug when it happens.
You are an idiot. Your argument is the same-old, same-old "moving forward is the best, laying blame accomplishes nothing."
Has it occurred to your small brain that by not letting the criminals responsible for torture, murder, violating the Geneva Conventions, US Law, the Constitution, and International treaties get away with their crimes might - just possibly - set a precedent for FUTURE administrations and potential lawbreakers? that it might just make FUTURE administrations and lawbreakers think TWICE before "taking the gloves off" and committing war crimes? Eh? No? didn't think so.
Letting our "leaders" off the hook for war crimes sets a very chilling precedent: it is OK for them to do so, and there will be no accountability.
Not the kind of precedent we should want in a "law-abiding democracy of laws, not men."
Thank God you are not in a position of power, moron. Although with losers like O-blah-blah and all his starry-eyed supporters sharing his "let's move forward" viewpoints, it is really a moot point.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, "It Cant Happen Here", 1935
Demonstorm
Perhaps in the future a more civil tone would not come amiss. You could disagree without making it personal. Thanks.
The reason we find ourselves confronted with this artificial dilemma is crimes committed in the past were never prosecuted--those committed by US forces during WW2, Korea, the illegal invasion of Indonesia and coups (wars really) in Iran and Guatamala by Eisenhower, the illegal invasion of Cuba, Vietnam, and on and on. This is the fundamental reason why nothing is happening now because the same "look the other way" mentality and self-justification for those crimes was allowed to stand.
Obama is a War Criminal because all of his predecesors since 1945 were and never got prosecuted for their crimes--indeed, most never experienced much dissent over ther acts. Empires oppress and kill with impunity, which is why Empires have such bad reputations--All are/were Evil. The US Empire is no different. As long as the USA is an Empire, its presidents and most of its politicos will be War Criminals, because that's what people do while running an Empire.
If you want to measure how successful "looking back" was as opposed to "looking to the future"
How many Countries has Germany Invaded illegaly since the Nuremberg trials?
How many prisoners have been beaten to death or tortured while in the Custody Of German Forces since the Nuremberg trials.?
Now compare that to the "lets look to the future" attitude of the USA.
Which method has worked?
Good post.
Joe
At least two: Iraq and Afghanistan and I am not sure about Kosovo.
Your arguments question the assumptions underlying how we think about responsibility for crimes and whether punishment for crimes is useful. You may also question the definition of "crime" itself. These are huge topics, and there is merit in discussing them, re-thinking things. We have such a huge prison system because it is for-profit and because most of us accept prison as the primary way to enforce lawful conduct. This is not necessarily good.
But why give the first passes to exceptionally brutal and privileged people who have violated international human rights laws? To be merciful, why not start with pot smokers and prostitutes, who harm nobody except possibly themselves?
It is not a good idea to stop obeying the current law without having answers and alternatives. We don't have any other way to control egregious conduct by mass murderers and thieves who have no empathy, no internal compass about right and wrong.
Joe
"But why give the first passes to exceptionally brutal and privileged people who have violated international human rights laws? To be merciful, why not start with pot smokers and prostitutes, who harm nobody except possibly themselves?"
Joe,
I'm really not talking about giving passes. If they are prosecuted and punished, I suggest we jail them vs. enforce a death penalty which I think is also a crime, legal or not.
And as far as jailing, for anyone, it is always another kind of crime to treat people inhumanely. Punishment has been shown not to be a crime deterrent at all.
This may sound corny, but giving a chance for atonement and redemption should be possible during time in prison, and condemning people should not be our business.
I agree with you that our for-profit prison system is a shame and too many people are wrongfully locked up. It would be great if our society instead offered effective, affordable treatment centers, for example-- we don't.
Senior Democrats knew that torture was happening. Seven words, that's all you need to know in why Mr. Obama (he doesn't deserve the title President) wants to only look forward. I have more "hope" that Spain will hold these war-criminals accountable than our own government will.
IF Obama wont prosecute torturers, then he should be IMPEACHED!!
Obviously all his pretty talk about CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN was just more hot gas from a politician.
THROW THE BUM OUT!!!
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
And again, what does it all come down to? Us putting the pressure on Obama when according to many, whose eyes are still clouded by hope and change like happy butterflies and flowers, Obama can do no wrong. Pressuring him works as well as voting for him did.
"In the face of monumental pressure from the CIA to keep them secret, Obama demonstrated great courage in deciding to make the grotesque memos public."
Um...no. Not. Never. Nada. Nein. O-blah-blah was FORCED to release the memos after he lost an ACLU Freedom of Information lawsuit demanding their release. He fought the release of the memos tooth and nail, and only idiots such as the writer of the above story (and about 3/4 of the American electorate) who haven't done their homework think Obama was being "courageous" and released them of his own free will. Thanks go to the courageous ACLU for filing the lawsuit. If they hadn't - the memos would still be secret today.
Ok, O-blah-blah supporters: flame away.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, "It Cant Happen Here", 1935
Agreed. Obama is obstructing justice--a felony.
He ought to be impeached. He is abetting War Crimes.
Sen. Lindsay Graham on "The News Hour" last night:
"If you're a CIA agent and you've been instructed by your superiors to interrogate a suspect a certain way, I don't think you should be held criminally liable."
AKA - the "I was just following orders" defense. As in, Nuremburg Principal IV: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."
Sen LG also invoked the "we were all soooo scared after 911" defense: "Quite frankly, you got a bunch of lawyers in a room that were very much afraid that the country was going to be attacked the next day... We had just been hit. The country was on its knees."
As if the decision to torture at will was made on 9-12 while "we" were all on our knees...
-Sen. Lindsay Graham on "The News Hour" last night:
Oh, I do hope that the news hour was gentle with him? Otherwise he would have to retreat to FOX or one of those saturday morning shoutfests, with the one squeeky "liberal" with the imperceptably quiet voice.
We can't have the movers and shakers laughed at when they spout their absurdities now can we?
jlocke
Frankly I'm surprised Sen. Lindsay Graham can move his lips without Amnesty John there to tell him what to say. Its amusing to hear him speak about illegality when last year he was one of its biggest advocates.
I am sure he is safely enscounced back on FOX where the only questions that ever get asked are the ones they have given you the answer for.
Yahoo Headline: "Obama pushes for law to protect credit-card users."
If Obama refuses to uphold the laws against torture and war crimes, then what good is ANY law he proposes or currently on the books? Just as SEC rules and laws were ignored--and are still by Obama--that caused the current financial crisis, to cite just one example. The same goes for ALL legislation proposed by this administration. Unless enforced, law is worthless. And selective enforcement also renders law useless, as the Banksters and Corporadoes are gleefully aware.
I should add that every one of these comments ought to be sent to the White House and commenters's legislative representatives.
I can see Obysmal and Top Ramen Emanuel sitting around, reading all this and chuckling derisively. "What a bunch of knuckle heads and idealists these CD'ers are; what a bunch of pitiful slobs and losers. I HATE LOSERS! I HATE WHINERS!" Emanuel checks his watch. "'Scuse me, Boss. I gotta go collect some payoffs." He exits the Oval Office, chuckling.
If Obama refuses to uphold the laws against torture and war crimes, then what good is ANY law he proposes or currently on the books?
MY God, karlof1, how many times do I have to explain this to you?!!
You see, American laws have "expiration dates". They expire just as soon as they are passed( or before if contradicted by a secret whitehouse memo).
So, it is important to always make new laws. For example, some are proposing that a new "special council prosecuter thingy) be passed, as apparently America has come this far, from its founding to today, without the ability to prosecute anybody in the ruling circle.
Perhaps congress could pass a law saying that this and other laws need to be enforced, ah but darn! the Prez would then write a memo saying he wasn't bound by that law. I didn't think of that.
jlocke
How about we stop Congress from passing any new laws till the one's they have passed are enforced or removed from law?
Then the weathervane wouldn't need the nasty signing statements anymore.
-How about we stop Congress from passing any new laws till the one's they have passed are enforced or removed from law?
Don't be silly, that would be illegal.
HA!!
karlof1
"Unless enforced, law is worthless. And selective enforcement also renders law useless, as the Banksters and Corporadoes are gleefully aware."
Absolutely the prime point here. And well put!
"Obama's Duty to Prosecute Torturers"
If Congress does it, Obama won't be under Repug attack and he will be able to dedicate himself fully to his agenda instead of playing defense. He released the memos under lots of conservative pressure against it. Let Congress take over and prosecute. It will give them something constructive to do.
-Let Congress take over and prosecute
I'm sorry, I must be reading the wrong textbook, isn't it the job of Obama's justice dept. to prosecute, or are we all just making up the US constitution as we go now, like Bush did?
According to Vincent Bugliosi's book, "The Prosecution of George Bush for Murder", any prosecutor can.
That would be the one where he lists over 900 illegal acts commited by Bush? I read part of it. I can't judge the vagaries of his legal minutiae but he is a noted lawyer isn't he? But still no takers on his challege to prosecute Bush? Do you know the Sherlock Holmes story with the dog that didn't bark?