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Secular Country? Obama Sides With Jefferson, Madison, Paine
President Obama made one of the most important statements of his young presidency when he said in Turkey that the United States is not "a Christian nation."
Rob Boston was right when he noted on the Americans United for Separation of Church and State site, Obama's secular declaration "reflects the best of Jefferson's thinking."
Unfortunately, ahistorical social conservatives are not inclined to share the sense of presidents past or present that, in Obama's words, "(America is) a secular country that is respectful of religious freedom, respectful of rule of law, respectful of freedom, upholding these values and being willing to stand up for them in the international stage."
The president has taken hard hits in recent days for his announcement in Turkey that: "I've said before that one of the great strengths of the United States is -- although as I mentioned we have a very large Christian population -- we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation, or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values."
Constitutional rewritemen Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly disagree, as does noted historian and Biblical scholar Chuck Norris, who argues that, "the idea that Judeo-Christian ideas and practices must be kept separate from government would have struck our Founders as ridiculous..."
As difficult as it may be counter with that sort of "reasoning," it probably makes sense to turn, once more, to Mr. Jefferson.
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions," the third president wrote to the Danbury Baptists in 1802, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state."
Was Jefferson an outlier?
Well, James Madison, the essential arbiter on matters constitutional, explained that: "The Constitution of the U.S. forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion."
And the common sense of the most visionary of the founders, Tom Paine, led him to observe that: "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
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10 Comments so far
Show AllIt's the same it has always been - a class warfare. But for many centuries now, much of Christianity has practiced what Christ stood for in reverse. Keep the status quo, grab power and screw the helpless.
The only goal, for the OhReallys et al, like the Islamists, is to convert the rest of the world to their religion, so they can ascend their place in the heirarchy. Of course once everyone converts to the same religion in a single country new factions emerge, and wars on fought on other differences.
Love
Zero
Oh religion and politics. Nothing goes better together than irrationality and power.
No seriously, nothing is scarier than an irrational religious fundamentalist possessing nuclear weapons and that of course includes Sarah Palin. That is why no one should hold a grudge towards high-minded "progressives" in swing states who held back their gag reflex and voted for Obama. Barack, you may not be perfect, but God love ya' for not being a complete moron.
I'm thrilled to infer that Obama has come to his senses and will eliminate the enhanced government-"faith based" partnership ostensibly necessary to provide social services to We the People. Like all of the other New! Improved! Bush-maladministration policies Obama has enthusiastically adopted, embracing "faith-based" social services was a disturbing disappoinment.
I wonder who'll take Rick Warren's place at the inaugural ceremony for Obama's second term, now that Obama has belatedly reaffirmed the secular essence of Amerikan government?
· Yr Obd't Servant
So, Obama didn't say that "religion is in the mix"?
Understanding 101: Mr. Obama is very good at throwing people and principles under the bus to protect or advance his political future. The noun for this habit is pragmatism.
Mr. Nichols joins David Kreiger (this edition of CD) with still another hyper-ventilating shout of praise for something Obama said in a speech. As I wrote in reaction to Mr. Kreiger's piece on Obama's vision of a nuclear-free word, so it can be repeated here: the shelf price of an Obama promise is now approaching the dozen-for-a-dime level of value. Maybe the words mean something in terms of his presidential actions; maybe he will as promised take the "faith-based" component out of U.S. policy regarding public support of sex education. But don't count on it til you see a specific "secular" proposal and the political stir that it may be create in the faith-based part of the population. Rick Warren was a mere symbol, but his inclusion in the inaugural ceremony symbolized something (of course) and the decision to do so was an ACTION, an area in which Obama has so far fallen way short of his rhetoric.
Sure are a lot of people that didn't get the memo about this not being a Christian nation.
Academic conversation or opinions expressed in a small gathering of like minded individuals can get you applause, expressed in the real world where most people don't live protected and privilaged lives, it simply seems naive.
It also will get you one term.
"And the common sense of the most visionary of the founders, Tom Paine, led him to observe that: "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Bears repeating
The Treaty with Tripoly from the late eighteenth century as enacted by the US Congress clearly states that USA is not a nation founded on Cristianity or any other religion. It's in the Constitution and reafirmed by and act of Congress. Can't get much clearer than that.
As well as President John Adams signing the Treaty of Tripoli in 1797, Jefferson also responded to assertions in his day that the Constitution was rooted in the Judeo-Christian ethic. He said that it was based on English Common Law which pre-dated the introduction of Christianity to Britain:
" ... we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of the Magna Charta [1215 CE], which terminates the period of the common law...and commences that of the statute law.... This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century.... Here, then, was a space of about two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it.... If, therefore, from the settlement of the Saxons to the introduction of Christianity among them, that system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians, and if, having their laws from that period to the close of the common law, we are able to find among them no such act of adoption, we may safely affirm (though contradicted by all the judges and writers on earth) that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law. ..."
--Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814. From Andrew A. Lipscomb, ed., The Writings of Thomas Jefferson , Vol. XIV, Washington, DC: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1903, pp. 85-97.
From: http://www.tenamendmentsday.org/10afaq.php
Franklin. Jefferson, Paine, Madison and others of the Founders were Deists; Washington refused to take communion and rejected religious involvement in government; Adams openly questioned Christianity, and also rejected its role in government. Only Patrick Henry, among the prominent Founders, was an unabashed Christian.