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America, One Nation Under No God?
The number of secular Americans is rising faster than any other religious group. But faith will continue to influence politics
In recent years, non-religious Americans have won a modicum of public acknowledgment. Not long ago, politicians insulted them with impunity or at best simply overlooked them. But the heightened public religious fervour of the Bush years led the country's infidels to organise as never before, turning atheist authors like Sam Harris into celebrities and opening lobbying offices in Washington, DC, just like religious interest groups do.
Politicians have responded. In his inaugural address, Barack Obama - doubtlessly realising that secularists constitute a big part of his base - described America as a "nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus ... and non-believers." Even Mitt Romney came to express second thoughts about leaving atheists and agnostics out of his high-profile campaign speech on faith. The United States is not Europe - it will likely be a long time before we have a publicly agnostic president - but it is becoming more tolerant of the godless.
It has to be: no religious group in the United States is growing as fast as those who profess no religion at all. The latest American Religious Identification Survey, which Trinity College published last week, shows that the number of non-religious Americans has nearly doubled since 1990, while the number of people who specifically self-identity as atheists or agnostics has more than tripled. An astonishing 30% of married Americans weren't wed in religious ceremonies, and 27% don't expect to have religious funerals. This suggests whole swaths of the culture are becoming secular, since one can assume that non-believers in religious families often acquiesce to traditional marriage rites and expect to be prayed over when they're dead.
The irony, though, is that even as the country becomes more secular, American politics are likely to remain shot through with aggressive piety. What we're seeing is not a northern European-style mellowing, but an increasing polarisation. In his recent book Society without God: What the Least Religious Nations Can Tell Us About Contentment, the sociologist Phil Zuckerman described the secularised countries of Scandinavia as places where religion is regarded with "benign indifference". There's consensus instead of culture war. That's not what's happening in the United States. Instead, the centre is falling out.
According to the American Religious Identification Survey, Christianity is losing ground in the United States, but evangelical Christianity is not. Just over a third of Americans are still born-again. Meanwhile, the mainline churches, beacons of progressive, rationalistic faith - the kind that could potentially act as a bridge between religious and non-religious Americans - are shrinking. "These trends ... suggest a movement towards more conservative beliefs and particularly to a more 'evangelical' outlook among Christians," write the report's authors.
In some ways, there's a symbiotic relationship between evangelicals and secularists. The religious right emerged in response to a widespread sense of cultural grievance stemming from the social upheavals of the 1960s and 1970s. Today's newly organised atheists and agnostics were mobilised by the theocratic bombast of Bush-era Republicans. More than ever, one's religion is tied up with one's political choices rather than family history.
That means faith won't fade into the background. If European secularism is defined by disinterest in organised religion, American secularism is largely defined by opposition to it. Thus non-believers in the United States are increasingly becoming an organised interest group, demanding their share of civic respect. The more they want to escape organised religion, the less they can ignore it.
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120 Comments so far
Show Alljoehope, if your religion makes you a better person, good for you.
but you are really failing to see the obvious: people look around and see no connection whatsoever b/n most people's professions of faith and their morality. none at all. (in fact, they see shitloads of hypocrisy to boot).
the idea that religion is necessary for morality might sound good on paper (to some, anyway; certainly religious leaders spew that out non-stop), it just seems there's no evidence for it in real life. none whatsoever.
hitler, stalin & mao? shall we trot out all of the horrible, horrible things done in the name of religion? the genocides of native peoples, all done in the guise of religion? the children's crusades, the tortures of the inquisition, the religious wars? all the tens of millions of people killed by western, capitalist, christian powers, from colonialism to today? atheistic leaders don't have a lock on atrocity by a long, long ways, and only the really blind or naive would think so.
Here's the full qoute from the website you sourced
http://byfaithonline.com/page/in-the-world/richard-dawkins-the-atheist-e...
"I asked an obvious question: “As we speak of this shifting zeitgeist, how are we to determine who’s right? If we do not acknowledge some sort of external [standard], what is to prevent us from saying that the Muslim [extremists] aren’t right?”
“Yes, absolutely fascinating.” His response was immediate. “What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question. But whatever [defines morality], it’s not the Bible. If it was, we’d be stoning people for breaking the Sabbath.”"
When Dawkins says "What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right?" He is clearly making a point about how hard it is to determine in religious debates who is right and who isn't.
AND
"I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question"
He is responding to the questioner's intial question quoted above. Not he's own/
You have clearly quoted him out of context. I suggest you take more care next time before you try to paint someone as some sort of neo-nazi
joehope.
there is little chance of you understanding, but here goes. in my humble opinion, you are witnessing a forced evolution (i guess all evolution is forced by circumstance), at the hands of the only two power systems that have ever existed thus far: property, and religion. Today, the owners of society, the new monarchy, the capitalists (and their enablers: religious leaders) are destroying all of humanity, not just some country, or group of people. Once this extinction, becomes crystal clear, you will see the real nature of man: that of survival. I suspect that will be the moment GOD will truly die. For if man can overcome his own extinction, by his own actions, there will no longer be any discussions about god. Man will be GOD. Unfortunately that will not include you or your genetic material.
Cheers
"Unfortunately that will not include you or your genetic material"
and you are better than stalin & hitler how again? in your wish-fantasies, that is?
hopefully humanity will not have to endure your apocalyptic fantasies to get rid of those parts of humanity you and your sewing circle find so distasteful.
ok small words for small people.
a) for the atheists as bad people argument you would actually need a historical precedent of an atheist nation that conquered, murdered a religious one. please give me one. I can give you plenty of religious ones. otherwise if we are going to reduce complex human affairs such as power and social structures as the magical powers of individuals, then I am afraid our discussion ends here.
b) using reason, not belief I can see that the power that was gotten by Stalin, Hitler etc, was at the expense of a primitive organizational structure, namely the state and the lack of critical thinking skills of believers such as yourself. You on the other hand, are bound to serve the next one when he comes along, if he just has the same "belief" as you.
c) humanity? where? I see no evidence of it. all the real humans get murdered real fast, because the animals don't understand them....
Cheers
1) i never made the 'atheists are bad people argument'. not once. you are confusing me w/joehope (see my reply to him above). once again, a dazzling display of reading ability.
2) just what were those nations that stalin, hitler, et al conquered? they all called themselves "religious." what about china & tibet? (christ, what a stupid point to argue about. the issue in warfare is not "religious vs. atheist" but killing. people having bombs dropped on them don't give a shit whether their bombadiers are religious or not.)
3)fair enough in your analysis of hitler/stalin's grasp on power. but for the 3rd time, i'm not a believer, and am certainly not looking for a superman to come & save me or this world.
4) not sure exactly what your last comment means, besides evincing once again your general disdain for those lower on the food chain than your vaunted self.
5) it'd be great if you read what i actually said. one doesn't have to be an atheist to point out the stupidity of joehope's comments, nor does one have to be a believer to point out the stupidity of yours.
1) i never made the 'atheists are bad people argument'. not once. you are confusing me w/joehope (see my reply to him above). once again, a dazzling display of reading ability.
correct, and my bad.
2) if a was a misunderstanding no reason to address 2
3) if you are so quick to point out my confusing you with joehope, and not reading carefully, then you should practice what you preach. what evidence do you have for my disdain for "those lower on the food chain than myself". perhaps a freudian slip on your part.
4) throwing words like stupidity and atheism around without any evidence is pretty weak. please be specific....
Cheers
I'm sorry to say so, but "G*d" is definitely within the realm of human desires.
George W. Bush was sure of it. "G*d" wanted him to be president, after all.
So much of what people call "G*d's will" is actually our own will.
Bertram Russell notwithstanding, we must stop looking outside of ourselves for a "moral standard." Morality imposed by an outside source is usually known by another name--"religion."
I am reminded of a verse from the Tao (38):
"... The moral man does something,
and when no one responds
he rolls up his sleeves and uses force.
When the Tao is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
the beginning of chaos."
Here are some quotes by Hitler the "atheist", joe:
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."
"I may be no pious churchgoer, but deep within me I am nevertheless a devout man."
"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out".
And don't forget that Wehrmacht officers wore "Gott mit uns" inscribed on their belt buckles, and Stalin started his career as a divinity student.
Atrocities have been committed both by atheists and religious people. The only thing it proves is that reason is no more, and no less, violent that faith.
you point out that both stalin, and hitler showed evidence of not being atheists. then you go on and dismiss yourself by saying that both atheists and religious people commit atrocities after offering evidence that at least two of the three originally mentioned were actually not atheists. no wonder you cannot discern between reason and faith. employing that sort of logic is circular at best illogical at worst.
reason no more violent than faith? what sort of simplistic world view will you offer your children? don't worry honey things are the way that they are. everything just is.
i would like to point out that the fruit of reason (read technology) has often been used exactly by religion to exterminate others religious or not. I think you are confusing power and elitism with reason. now it is used mostly to further the agenda of capital.
Sweet Mother of Mary, frangelica!
You don't make any sense whatsoever!
why not point out where and why? specifically?
Cheers
Hey joe, I don't know if you've actually read the Old Testament- or Torah or whatever you want to call it, but GOD actually condones genocide!.
Think I'm kidding? Numbers 33:50-52
God instructs Moses to kill all the Cannanites and their religious symbols and possessions.
No wonder The Israelis find it so morally acceptable to shit all over the Palestinians. They've been doing it for thousands of years and they have GOD on their side!
Seems like your God would have got on well with Hitler, Stalin and Mao!
Also what do you think is going to happen to you if you write God instead of G*d?
Will he come down and smite you? Or condem you to hell for all eternity? Seems kind of harsh to me? I thought he was supposed to be all loving and fogiving? Oh wait- that's the God of the New Testament. I get so confused sometimes ha ha ha...
Here's the full qoute from the website you sourced
http://byfaithonline.com/page/in-the-world/richard-dawkins-the-atheist-evangelist
"I asked an obvious question: “As we speak of this shifting zeitgeist, how are we to determine who’s right? If we do not acknowledge some sort of external [standard], what is to prevent us from saying that the Muslim [extremists] aren’t right?”
“Yes, absolutely fascinating.” His response was immediate. “What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question. But whatever [defines morality], it’s not the Bible. If it was, we’d be stoning people for breaking the Sabbath.”"
When Dawkins says "What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right?" He is clearly making a point about how no one can prevent you from asking such questions. He is not saying 'whos to say Hitler wasn't right'
AND
"I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question"
He is responding to the questioner's intial question quoted above. Not he's own/
You have clearly quoted him out of context. I suggest you take more care next time before you try to paint someone as some sort of neo-nazi
AMERICA -- ONE NATION UNDER GOD:
THE GOD OF MONEY and CAPITALISM.
everything else, religiousNESS, "morality", "family values", "freedom and democracy" are PURE BLATHER and fancy , bloated FACADES and decorations around the ONE GOD of America:
MONEY and POWER.
true true true. but don't forget that "America" itself is god-like in many americans' religious delusions.
funny how people say "religion is necessary for morality" but when i step into church i mostly see "religion is necessary for you to get rich, be successful, find your place in a middle class suburban lifestyle." what god is really about is helping you win the lottery.
Finally Americans are waking up.
It's time the world rid itself of superstition and irrational fear.
All religion is good for is giving people some hope of life after death. Emotional solace for those who need it. The rest is a big scam that sucks up money, pays no tax, and causes conflict, dissent, violence and death.
I can't believe how Americans use technology like cell phones, watch television, drive cars, use computers and the internet, use microwaves, use GPS, have heart operations and organ transplants, use cancer medications and medication in general etc.- all of which wouldn't be possible without feilds of study like quantum physics, classical physics, chemistry and biology- yet still believe in an archaic, irrelevant, self contradictory, semi historical and poorly written "book" like the Bible/Torah/Koran (whatever you want to call it, because they are largely all the same)
There's no such thing as God
Wake Up America!
when your "opiate for the masses and heart in a heartless world" is a GPS, is it really surprising that people use their GPS to get to church?
to answer people's fear of death, you offer...a cellphone.
If America has a symbolic 'god,' it is the god of greed and consumerism. And organized religion serves as an integral part of this structure. Preachers say: "the fact that I am doing well, proves 'god' has favored me and my flock..."
Pure nonsense.
faith= belief without reason + belief without evidence.