Twitter
StumbleUpon
Facebook
Delicious
Digg
Newsvine
Google
Yahoo
Technorati
Published on Saturday, January 31, 2009 by CommonDreams.org
Wither Wall Street
Soon after the passage in 1999 of the Clinton-Rubin-Summers-P. Graham deregulation of the financial industry, I boarded a US Air flight to Boston and discovered none other than then-Secretary of the Treasury Lawrence Summers a few seats away. He was speaking loudly and constantly on his cell phone. When the plane took off he invited me to sit by him and talk.
After reviewing the contents of this Citibank-friendly new law called the Financial Modernization Act—I asked him: "Do you think the big banks have too much power?"
He paused for a few seconds and replied: "Not Yet." Intrigued by his two word answer, I noted the rejection of modest pro-consumer provisions, adding that now that the banks had had their round, wasn't it time for the consumers to have their own round soon?
He allowed that such an expectation was not unreasonable and that he was willing to meet with some seasoned consumer advocates and go over such an agenda. We sent him an agenda, and met with Mr. Summers and his staff. Unfortunately, neither his boss, Bill Clinton, nor the Congress were in any mood to revisit this heavily lobbied federal deregulation law and reconsider the blocked consumer rights.
The rest is unfolding, tragic history. The law abolished the Glass-Steagall Act which separated commercial banking from investment banking. This opened the floodgates for unwise mergers, acquisitions and other unregulated risky financial instruments. Laced with limitless greed, casino capitalism ran wild, tanking economies here and abroad.
One champion of this market fundamentalism was Alan Greenspan, then chairman of the Federal Reserve. Last October before a House Committee, Greenspan admitted he was mistaken and expressed astonishment at how corporations could not even safeguard their own self-interest from going over steep speculative cliffs.
Greenspan and Summers were deemed "brilliant" by the press and most of Congress. Summers' predecessor at Treasury—Robert Rubin—was also a charter member of the Oracles—those larger-than-life men who just knew that the unfettered market and giant financial conglomerates would be the one-stop shopping mart consumers were assumed to be craving.
Now the world knows that these men belong to the "oops oligarchy" that bails itself out while it lets the companies collapse into the handcuffed arms of Uncle Sam and bridled taxpayers who have to pay for unconditional megabailouts. Instead of the Wall Street crooks being convicted and imprisoned, they have fled the jurisdiction with their self-determined compensation. Corporate crime pays, while pensions and mutual fund savings evaporate.
Now comes the next stage of the Washington rescue effort in a variety of stimulus packages which every vendor group imaginable wants a piece of these days. When trillions are offered, many come running.
As the public focus is on how much, when and where all this money should be spent, there are very serious consequences to be foreseen and forestalled. First, consider how much more concentrated corporate power is occurring. Forced or willing mergers, acquisitions and panic takeovers of big banks by bigger banks along with bankruptcies of companies further reduce what is left of quality competition for consumer benefit.
Remember the anti-trust laws. Obama needs to be their champion. The fallout from the Wall Street binge is likely to lead to a country run by an even smaller handful of monopolistic global goliaths.
In the stampede for stimulus legislation, there is a foreboding feeling on Capitol Hill that there is no proposal on the table to pay for it other than by the children and grandchildren. Just the opposite is raining down on them. Everybody including the private equity gamblers, Las Vegas casinos and Hollywood studios along with the banks and auto companies are looking for tax breaks.
So with the economy deteriorating and taxes being cut, where is the enormous money coming from? From borrowing and from printing money. So look out for big time inflation and decline in the dollar's value vis-à-vis other currencies.
In all the hundreds of pages of stimulus bills, there is nothing that would facilitate the banding together of consumers and investors into strong advocacy groups. We have long proposed Financial Consumer Associations, privately and voluntarily funded through inserts in the monthly statements of financial firms.
If this bailout—stimulus—Wall Street funny money waste, fraud and abuse sounds confusing, that is because it is. A brand new paperback "Why Wall Street Can't Be Fixed and How to Replace It: Agenda For a New Economy" by long-time corporate critic, David C. Korten will explain some of the wheeling and dealing.
You don't have to agree with all or many of Korten's nostrums. Just read Part II—The Case For Eliminating Wall Street. He considers three central questions:
First, do Wall Street Institutions do anything so vital for the national interest that they justify trillions of dollars to save them from the consequences of their own excess?
Second, is it possible that the whole Wall Street edifice is built on an illusion of phantom wealth that carries deadly economic, social, and environmental consequences for the larger society?
Third, are there other ways to provide needed financial services with greater results and at lesser cost?
After reviewing the contents of this Citibank-friendly new law called the Financial Modernization Act—I asked him: "Do you think the big banks have too much power?"
He paused for a few seconds and replied: "Not Yet." Intrigued by his two word answer, I noted the rejection of modest pro-consumer provisions, adding that now that the banks had had their round, wasn't it time for the consumers to have their own round soon?
He allowed that such an expectation was not unreasonable and that he was willing to meet with some seasoned consumer advocates and go over such an agenda. We sent him an agenda, and met with Mr. Summers and his staff. Unfortunately, neither his boss, Bill Clinton, nor the Congress were in any mood to revisit this heavily lobbied federal deregulation law and reconsider the blocked consumer rights.
The rest is unfolding, tragic history. The law abolished the Glass-Steagall Act which separated commercial banking from investment banking. This opened the floodgates for unwise mergers, acquisitions and other unregulated risky financial instruments. Laced with limitless greed, casino capitalism ran wild, tanking economies here and abroad.
One champion of this market fundamentalism was Alan Greenspan, then chairman of the Federal Reserve. Last October before a House Committee, Greenspan admitted he was mistaken and expressed astonishment at how corporations could not even safeguard their own self-interest from going over steep speculative cliffs.
Greenspan and Summers were deemed "brilliant" by the press and most of Congress. Summers' predecessor at Treasury—Robert Rubin—was also a charter member of the Oracles—those larger-than-life men who just knew that the unfettered market and giant financial conglomerates would be the one-stop shopping mart consumers were assumed to be craving.
Now the world knows that these men belong to the "oops oligarchy" that bails itself out while it lets the companies collapse into the handcuffed arms of Uncle Sam and bridled taxpayers who have to pay for unconditional megabailouts. Instead of the Wall Street crooks being convicted and imprisoned, they have fled the jurisdiction with their self-determined compensation. Corporate crime pays, while pensions and mutual fund savings evaporate.
Now comes the next stage of the Washington rescue effort in a variety of stimulus packages which every vendor group imaginable wants a piece of these days. When trillions are offered, many come running.
As the public focus is on how much, when and where all this money should be spent, there are very serious consequences to be foreseen and forestalled. First, consider how much more concentrated corporate power is occurring. Forced or willing mergers, acquisitions and panic takeovers of big banks by bigger banks along with bankruptcies of companies further reduce what is left of quality competition for consumer benefit.
Remember the anti-trust laws. Obama needs to be their champion. The fallout from the Wall Street binge is likely to lead to a country run by an even smaller handful of monopolistic global goliaths.
In the stampede for stimulus legislation, there is a foreboding feeling on Capitol Hill that there is no proposal on the table to pay for it other than by the children and grandchildren. Just the opposite is raining down on them. Everybody including the private equity gamblers, Las Vegas casinos and Hollywood studios along with the banks and auto companies are looking for tax breaks.
So with the economy deteriorating and taxes being cut, where is the enormous money coming from? From borrowing and from printing money. So look out for big time inflation and decline in the dollar's value vis-à-vis other currencies.
In all the hundreds of pages of stimulus bills, there is nothing that would facilitate the banding together of consumers and investors into strong advocacy groups. We have long proposed Financial Consumer Associations, privately and voluntarily funded through inserts in the monthly statements of financial firms.
If this bailout—stimulus—Wall Street funny money waste, fraud and abuse sounds confusing, that is because it is. A brand new paperback "Why Wall Street Can't Be Fixed and How to Replace It: Agenda For a New Economy" by long-time corporate critic, David C. Korten will explain some of the wheeling and dealing.
You don't have to agree with all or many of Korten's nostrums. Just read Part II—The Case For Eliminating Wall Street. He considers three central questions:
First, do Wall Street Institutions do anything so vital for the national interest that they justify trillions of dollars to save them from the consequences of their own excess?
Second, is it possible that the whole Wall Street edifice is built on an illusion of phantom wealth that carries deadly economic, social, and environmental consequences for the larger society?
Third, are there other ways to provide needed financial services with greater results and at lesser cost?
171 Comments so far
Show AllI notice a lot of hate talk between the Nader supporters and the Obama supporters and quite frankly I am disgusted with both sides for flaming each other like this. It would be nice if the Greens and the Democrats actually united and found some common ground rather than staying divided like this. In the last 40 years the Republicans and Libertarians united and found a lot of common ground and look how far they have come. In sharp contrast, for the past 30 years, the Democrats and Greens despite a lot of common ground have drifted apart. On the one hand you have the Greens with plenty of great ideas but no organization and on the other you have Democrats who are further divided amongst the conservative Blue Dog wing and the ones almost identical to the Greens. We all can fight amongst each other but for the last 30 years and counting, the Republicans and "I got mine screw you" Libertarians who could care less about civil liberties these days continue to win. As long as we continue to have this Obama vs Nader fight, none of us are gonna get anywhere. Likewise, I notice that on this forum there are a lot of divisions even among the so-called "progressives" and "independents".
Most of Nader's articles are generally well written and often non-partisan but as others have pointed out, I noticed spelling errors and the fact that Nader mentions nothing about Phil Gramm and Newt Gingrich's roles even in that time period. Plus there's no discussion about the 1980s or the earlier part of this decade which are equally responsible for leading up to this mess. It would have sounded less partisan had Nader included the full picture starting with Nixon's lowering of the gold standard, Reagan's voodoo economics of tax cuts for the wealthy and oil tycoons along with "free" trade and deregulation, Clinton's continuing of Reagan's economic ideology followed by Bush's escalation of Reagan's ideology and wars for oil.
I also noticed that from the election results that of the 131 million votes casted, Nader and Mckinney put together were unable to get even 1 million votes which means we have a long ways to go before we can make a break through with a strong progressive independent ala Nader. I'm a strong Nader supporter but I do agree with some of the posters on this forum that Nader or whoever is to take his place in 2012 is gonna need plenty of support and improvement. Currently, despite Nader's contributions to the growth of those well-meaning organizations, few of them have returned the favor of endorsing his candidacy. Worse, unlike the conservatives and economic-only "libertarians", there's no progressive/liberal infrastructure, long term planning, or even strong think tanks to counter even the DLC let alone the rabid conservative and economic-only "libertarian" ones. It would be nice if these forums would be a place for getting people of these various organizations together to communicate and help one another out rather than engage in vitriolic in-fighting for a change.
Hi JW. Excellent post. You're right there is a lot if work to be done, especially with ballot access for alternative political parties. Frankly, I don't mind valid criticisms of Nader. Nobody's perfect. I just get tired of the Fairy Tales like "Nader got Bush elected". Regards.
Ralph Nader. He did much for the U.S.
But I remember last November 4th, 2008 when Nader was once again on Fox News criticizing Obama and the Democrats (not the Rethugs too much though-hey, he was on FOX NEWS, why? To slam the Dem's ad infinitum....)
Any old way, Ralph on Fox referred to Obama as Uncle Tom to the nation and world that night. That is very racist. But was part of a pattern of Ralph bashing Obama-the effect was to help McCain obviously. That is fact. Not opinion.
Naomi Klein says Cisco Systems works "hand in glove" with the Communist Chinese spyng on their people. Cisco has always been Ralph's biggest investment. He's been an officer in the corporation.
He has always had a quarter mill plus in Fidelity-Magellan-they in turn invest in Raytheon, General Dynamics, Boeing, Wal-mart.
Facts are facts. Personally, I've admired Ralph until I saw him on Fox and elsewhere attacking Obama when it was down to Obama or Mcain.
And his investments are antithetical to what he preaches=that corporations are the problem! Right! So why Fidelity Magellan? Come one, how about some consistency? Now that Obama is popular Ralph's tone is much quieter-but if Obama is attacked or weakened, I know Ralph will be among the first there to sink his knife in Obama's back again! Maybe on Fox some again! azjoe.
Oh Pshaw. Obama deserves the criticism. As for Nader's investments, well now, we still do live in a Captalist society. Nader has given away more money to causes than most people make in a lifetime. If Nader calling Obama on his support of neo-liberalism is putting a metaphorical knife in his back, then good. You go Ralph. Put Obama's feet to the fire as the Obama cult followers will not.
Hi binban. I agree that Obama deserves criticism (and praise). And I am an Obama Supporter. Re RN's investments, while you point out we all live in a capitalist society, not all of us have become famous correctly identifying corporations as the ultimate embodiment of what is wrong in the U.S....And then gone on to invest in the WORST of them. That is quite different.
Again, criticizing Obama is right-but RN doing it on FIX, where Nader joined a chorus of vitriol attacking the Dem's in an endless team effort to defeat Obama. That was just ugly.
And now he writes these articles where he is deferential. For this moment. But last November Obama was Uncle Tom. Yeah, right, I'll respect someone like that in a pig's eye.
If McCain, who Nader has CLOSE ties to had won, Obama would be under RN's heel on FOX again and be "Uncle Tom" again. Yuck!!!!! azjoe.
AZJoe, I fear you do not give Nader his due. He is as critical of repugs as he is of democraps. I also fear that you see crticisms of Obama in the light of a loyalist and use the arena in which that critique took place as substituting for the failure to understand that Nader spoke truth.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Hello Red Rick. It was in the several months leading up to Obama's election I perceived that Nader was slamming Obama ("Uncle Tom") I admit it got me looking at Nader more closely.
Ralph in 2004 invited McCain to join his presidential campaign.
He is heavily invested in awful corporations.
He champions against these same corporations, he sells books preaching their evils as he collects dividend checks from them!
These things aren't against the law, but it makes me wonder if you are right, maybe I didn't give Nader his due.
Seriously Rick, I don't mind at all, especially to you , explaining why I'm 'down' on Nader a bit. But when shrill 'progressives' get freak out & get indignant and try to outdo each other on CD re how very very offended they are that their GOD has been questioned, it makes me wonder why.....me thinketh thou doth protest too much and all.
Nader seems to have a cult following. It is interesting to watch. He should have sought office with his fame where he could have effected policy.
He could have gone so far, been so much. I looked up to him once. But something happened.
All my respect, azjoe.
Politics make strange bedfellows, AZJoe, and your new buddy might show you, far better than ever could I that you are on the wrong track.
The distortions about Nader's portfolio have been aired enough times to think perhaps you ignore them. Can you link to the claim that Nader asked McCain to join his campaign?
The protest you read from those who support Ralph Nader's policies and agendas come because there are those like your newest friend who lie, distort and slander. There is a system in this nation that makes combating the two party duopoly a problematic venture at best. The media, the democrats ( who battled to keep Nader off ballots)conspire to rant and rave about what it is that Nader attempts.
Joe, if you can read the writings of Ralph Nader, listen to his speeches and criticize the truth he speaks then do so, but I urge you not to swallow the kool aid handed to you by the almost fanatical democrats whose aim is to tear down and not debate rationally.
Your use of the word cult seems a bit odd when I have exposed the lies with links, when Nebraska Nathan has claimed ignorance of easily researched fact ( the numbers of democrats in Florida who voted for Bush is one such), has posted inaccuracies and not one single shred of discussion regarding the article that heads the thread.
I believe you to be one interested in truth and polite debate, thus I respond and urge you to read Nader's words, read the postings of those who tear him down and research the supposed claims of those agendised folks to find th elies for yourself.
The absence of Nader and those like him in our political arena would be a truly bad thing for our democratic process. Nader forces the two party system to deal with things that would remain hidden otherwise, thus he plays an important role in educating the public, and thus you find cockroaches crawling out of the woodwork to lie about him.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Darn Red Rick. What an extreme pleasure to disagree and retain dignity.
My claim re Nader & his invitation to ask McCain to join his campaign can be verified by Googling, 'nader campaign mccain salon.com 2004'
Rick. I wish not to vilify Mr. Nader. His investments, Fix News Uncle Tom Obama bashing, and investments are what they are. And easily checkable.
Rick, since we are etiquette oriented, may I ask you not to call Obama my new buddy. He is a politician I voted for. I believe he will do much good and fail to do much good. But calling him my buddy is not it.
Rick, are you okay with the Uncle Tom comment Ralph made on national-Fox-Television? And Rick, I have read some of Ralph's thoughts, highly commendable all, but anyone can have good ideas. Write books and give talks for cash. It takes being a member of Congress or some such to effect policy. RN could have, significantly. I wonder why he never empowered himself in that way?
Been a Kucinich or Wellstone.
Forward!, Joe.
Thanks for the link,Joe. So this "cabal" which you believe represents a dastardly plot to install a Republican comes down to Nader thanking McCain for the Senator's attempts to help get Nader on the ballot. The author, Joe Conason, is a loyal democrat who pours the kool aid that you relish drinking. I wonder what is worse,Joe, self serving acts of the GOP to dilute the votes going to democratic candidates by adding Nader to the ballot, or equally self serving actions by the democrats to keep Nader off said ballots?
Either way blatant usurpation of power, illegal as hell and certainly violations of the spirit of free elections.
Oh and my reference to "your new friend" was not meant to impugn your loyalty to Barack Obama, to which you are certainly entitled. It referred to your seeming alliance with the aims of the Nebraska fanatic..Just a wayward bit of sarcasm....
As to our continued polite debate, whether in agreement or not, Of course a mutual respect exists and will remain, even if I fail to convince you of the truth...;-) We are both adults, bot honestly seeking truth, justice and solutions to the problems that beset our nation.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Finally, real understanding and intelligence. I'll confess that I gave Nader a thorough look but realized that even if he were to win that the current system is just stacked against him and later, 2 weeks before the election, I found out about his unusual financial dealings and from there I lost trust of him and kept my support locked to Obama. Obama makes no bones about who he's dealing with which was enough for me to trust him for being honest. You make a valid point when you say that Nader has a cult following. I'll admit that just about any candidate has a cult following too. The problem with Nader is all too often he sounds like a Republican than an Independent especially when one reads this article where he talks only about the late 1990s but avoids discussion about this decade.
Nader gives money to nowhere. Maybe if you'd give Obama a chance, then your son's health will improve under better healthcare policies. I'd like to see you bash Obama once he puts single payer healthcare on the table.
I wouldn't hold my breath about single payer healthcare. Obama deems himself a 'realist' and fighting the pharmacy and health insurance lobbies is political suicide, according to the 'realists'.
Al Gore refused to pursue his legal option of Florida ballot recount. A couple of news organizations after the fact performed their own recount and declared Gore the winner. The lineage of blame starts with Gore, James Baker, Jeb Bush....ending with the universe at large.(or beginning with the universe at large depending on your cosmology.) Nader's in there somewhere but so are you and me.
Wallstreet is conceptual, money creation is conceptual,(for god sakes we're creating money out of thin air, converting and leveraging this imaginary money several times it's imaginary face value and converting this "money" into financial instruments that are far removed from any authentic valuation)(I'll leave it up to someone else to define what's authentic) so allowing the fall of Wallstreet would allow a different monetary/investment concept to emerge.(hopefully humanistic based and sustainable)
Red Rick, Para meaning "larger context" I took the liberty to expand the context of Churchill's actual quote to fit my expressive need with no intention to corrupt Churchill's intent and actual quote.
After reading the article then seeing 83 comments I thought, great a good discussion, but no, just the usual idiotic nonsense about Nader causing all the ills of the last eight years. Why stop there? Nader's been around since the 60's and his devastation to our country must be astounding according to the logic of many posting here. The remaining comments are by well intentioned reasonable people who sadly must try to convince the irrationalists that, no, Nader is really a good guy.
Once again Ralph's well intentioned and conscientious efforts to inform and to offer alternatives gets hijacked and diverted here CD.
Typical blind Nader follower. Too much idealism and an urge for a one-man-show presidency isn't democracy, now is it?
By either Democratic Party operatives or by those unable or unwilling to read and understand. Those who read the position papers and the agenda of Ralph Nader and continue to condemn both them and him must have motives other than truth and justice.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
"By either Democratic Party operatives or by those unable or unwilling to read and understand. Those who read the position papers and the agenda of Ralph Nader and continue to condemn both them and him must have motives other than truth and justice."
Correction:
By either Republican Party operatives or by those unable or unwilling to read and understand. Those who read the partisan rantings of Ralph Nader and continue to blindly defend him must have motives other than truth and justice such as one-man rule and idealism.
Hmmm. I'm beginning to think that the ranting of religious Democrats against Ralph Nader are going to lead to defections to the other Corporate Party. Democrats know a good self-defeating strategy when they see one. Keep it up Democrats. It a good way to win Nader supporters over. Isn't it now?
If Al Gore had been president as he won the election only to have it stolen from him in 2000, we wouldn't have had 9/11, Iraq war, Enrons, tax cuts for the wealthy, the housing bubble, you name it. My son and son-in-law were redirected to Fallujah where they were killed and none of this would have happened if Nader hadn't given the election to Bush. My daughter, now the widowed mother of two children, has had to put up with 5 layoffs due to outsourcing these past 8 years and now her salary is only 55% of what it was 8 years ago and I've had to dip into my retirement savings just to help her out of her financial hell and all because that bloody Nader gave us 8 years of Republican hell ! Mr. Nader is probably richer now than he was 8 years ago with Bush's policies and doesn't have to worry about losing his job or getting killed or maimed in Iraq while the rest of us who had to watch our loved ones suffer like this have to put up with the daily grief day in and day out !! Thank you Ralph for bringing us all poverty and terrorism. Osama bin Laden is proud of you and Dubya !!
Marlene, I am sorry for your grief. I share it when I think about all of the dead Iraqi children. Let that be a lesson to all us. We should advise our young men and women to seek other work and not become killers for the government.
"We should advise our young men and women to seek other work and not become killers for the government."
You should take a look at the recruitment going on in my state. Often times, even those who just completed a masters degree never get anything close to employment 1 or 2 years after and then they'll be rendered powerless to the point that they'll be pushed into accepting a lucrative offer from military contractors before they face financial hell or even commit suicide. The non-military professions have been privatized and that needs to be corrected. I've saved a few high school kids from feeling left out and almost joining the military just because their teachers and classmates treated them as already handicapped.
Yes, and, get ready. Obama will expand the war in Afghanistan. That will lead to expansion of the war on terror all the way to India and China. The draft will come back as World War II commences. And we're all back to work again doing what we do best --- making war. The youth will have guranteed employment as will the undertakers.
Obama can't possibly go that far. He's not a delusional mad man unlike Bush/Cheney who believe in "shoot first ask later" ideology. You're inventing unfounded fears.
Obama doesn't have to "go that far". He is not in control. The hand inside the sock puppet is.
Unfounded? Check out:
http://9112010.com
(and if you don't want to read the whole thing) start at the title chapter
http://9112010.com/9112010.html and go from there.
And what exactly did happen at Minot Airforce base?
http://9112010.com/themysteryofminot.html
You really are a Dimocrapic party koolaid drinker aren't you? Who do you think got us into Vietnam? Answer Dimocraps JFK, and LBJ. Who supplied weapons to Suharto in Indonesia, answer Jimmy Carter, the humanist President. Who bombed aspirin factories in the Sudan in a "wag the dog operation" and invaded Serbia without U.N. authorization, and starved hundreds of thousands of Iraqis with cruel sanctions? Answer the great hero of Dimocrpapic party koolaid drinkers, Bill Clinton.
Anyone who isn't aware that both U.S. parties engage in imperialist war for power and profit isn't paying attention, and by that I include myself for voting for Obama despite knowing better, and having voted Green in 3 elections before that. :(
Unless you can build a 3rd party from bottom up instead of top bottom, it is useless. Nader's loss should have taught you that lesson but I see it hasn't. You cannot expect Greens to win presidential races if you don't help them on the local levels first. Go ahead and add me to your hate list and keep blaming the Democrats for everything and keep giving the Reaganite Republicans more "free" rides. When you can learn to cooperate with local Greens and help them to federal offices such as the House and Senate, then you may see a Green in the White House. Until then, you're dreaming and all you're going to get is Democrat or Republican. That's common sense.
Mystifying isnt it? I suspect we have a genuine DLC apologist in the house. Mayhaps even a paid one.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
That's a very nice joke sir but I'm afraid you got it all wrong. You obviously haven't studied US history or how the political system actually works. Come back when you do.
How the political system works?! Where in the friggin U.S. Constitution does it say that the U.S.A. has only two parties? Nowhere. Yet the two parties have gerrymandered the elections laws to have 50 different set of rules and hurdles to get a presidential candidate on the ballot. You think, perhaps, this is by chance? Yet, Nader managed to get on 45 state ballots theoretically making it possible to get enough electoral votes to win. And the media coverage. Simple. It was "youck fou". Gives us a break. You know as well as everyone else that the system is rigged so that the two Corporate Parties always win. Only Ross Perot's money could have slightly threatened the system and he was another Corporationist. Perhaps, YOU should read the history of the United States and its closed electoral process and what role Corporate money plays in it. Then YOU come back when you do.
You build you own gallows and step cheerfully into the noose...nice tear down of your own reputation
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Nebraska...I agree. That is going on all across the country. We have to demystify the military and teach the young that the military destroys things and kills people. That is the mission of the military. It should NOT be a jobs program. The economy is horrible, but so is killing people.
"We have to demystify the military and teach the young that the military destroys things and kills people."
It's no doubt a toughie but if we can put people out of their individualist mentality, then it can work. Good luck to us all is all I can say.
I am very sorry for your loss. I am also sorry that you have fixated, in your grief no doubt, upon the wrong target for your anguish.
There is absolutely no way of knowing what a Gore presidency would have brought, but , as the events of 9/11 were being plotted way before the election of 2000 there is little reason to believe it would not have occurred dependent upon the outcome of that election. You post as if Gore was the veritable messiah, he wasnt.
There is available to you a mountain of evidence showing that your mouthing of Democratic Party propaganda about Nader and Florida is false, as well as reams of evidence about how Florida politicians moved heaven and earth to sway that election.
Please accept my deepest sympathies for the loss of your relatives but understand that you really need to place the blame more accurately.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Unless you can prove that Gore would have taken us into Iraq or allowed the escalation of job outsourcing to go unfettered, Nader has to take some blame for going too far in his narcissism.
There is absolutely no way of knowing what a Gore presidency would have brought, but , as the events of 9/11 were being plotted way before the election of 2000 there is little reason to believe it would not have occurred dependent upon the outcome of that election. You post as if Gore was the veritable messiah, he wasnt.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Gore would have prevented 9/11 while Dubya didn't but I see that you're a Bush supporter so I'll leave you to your own devices.
Do you really believe that childishness as you demonstrate with this crap is a substitute for logic and rationale?
It is impossible to predict an alternate universe and that which would have occurred within it. Also, first I am an Nader supporter then a Bush fan, if forced to guess Id say you rode the little yellow school bus every day, helmet firmly inplace. But I try not to make silly guesses, and, unlike you, I stick to fact.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Oh come on. Every politicians is narcissitic. Surprise!!! Obama too.
I see you left out the other part of what I talked about. Again I ask you to please prove that Al Gore would have lead us into Iraq were he president.
Dear Patriots:
Funding Education? Wake up! Trillions for the War Machine. Trillions to criminals on Wall Street. We are bankrupt...so what! On and on.....Nothing has changed!!
The ruling class teaches their children to govern. Our children are taught to Obey!
The cesspool of corruption is so filthy and deep! The usual cabal of neocons and their billionaire bosses continue in power and are herding us into TOTAL slavery! Sharpen your pitchforks!
"When once a republic is corrupted there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption . . . every other correction is either useless or a new evil".
- Thomas Jefferson
Ralph Nader's Record of Accomplishments
Instrumental in the passing of the following legislation:
National Automobile and Highway Traffic Safety Act (1965)
Clean Water Act (1968)
Clean Air Act (1970)
Co-Op Bank Bill (1978)
Law establishing Environmental Protection Agency (1970)
Consumer Product Safety Act
Foreign Corrupt Practices Act
Mine Health and Safety Act
Whistleblower Protection Act
Medical Devices safety
Nuclear power safety
Mobile home safety
Consumer credit disclosure law
Pension protection law
Funeral home cost disclosure law
Tire safety & grading disclosure law
Wholesome Meat Act
Natural Gas Pipeline Safety Act
Federal Coal Mine Health and Safety Act
Wholesome Poultry Product Act
Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA) 1970
Safe Water Drinking Act
Freedom of Information Act
National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act
Founded or sponsored the following organizations:
American Antitrust Institute
Appleseed Foundation
Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest
Aviation Consumer Action Project
Buyers Up
Capitol Hill News Service Center for Concerned Engineering
Center for Auto Safety
Center for Insurance Research
Center for Justice and Democracy
Center for Science in the Public Interest
Center for the study of Responsive Law - 1969
Center for Women Policy Studies
Citizen Action Group
Citizen Advocacy Center
Citizen Utility Boards
Citizen Works
Clean Water Action Project
Clearinghouse for Professional Responsibility
Congress Project
Congress Watch
Congressional Accountability Project
Connecticut Citizen Action Group
Consumer Project on Technology
Corporate Accountability Research Group
Critical Mass Energy Project
Democracy Rising
Disability Rights Center
Equal Justice Foundation
Essential Information
FANS (Fight to Advance the Nation's Sports)
Fisherman's Clear Water Action Group
Foundation for Taxpayers and Consumer Rights
Freedom of Information Clearinghouse
Global Trade Watch
Government Purchasing Project
Health Research Group
Litigation Group
Multinational Monitor
National Citizen's Coalition for Nursing Home Reform
National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
National Insurance Consumer Organization
Ohio Public Interest Action Group
Organization for Competitive Markets
Professional Drivers (PROD)
Professionals for Auto Safety
Public Citizen
Pension Rights Center
Princeton Project 55
PROD - truck safety
Public Citizen's Visitor's Center
Public Interest Research Groups (PIRGS)
Resource Consumption Alliance (conserve trees) 1004
Retired Professionals Action Group
Shafeek Nader Trust for the Community Interest
Tax Reform Research Group
Telecommunications Research and Action Center
http://www.draftnader.org/accomplishments.php
So what? He "lives in his brother's house" dont you understand that this "fact" far outweighs any such list of accomplishments as you might post?
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Bullshit.
Excuse me?
Oh and by the by, Nader lived only temporarily at his SISTER'S house in DC while acquiring his own place.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
So what. He's got supportive family.
We are on the same side here,binban, or havent you noticed?
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Thank you (and John Butterfield) for your reply to Joe Hope's canard about Nader stealing the election from Gore. Michael Moore's "Stupid White Men" goes into detail about that popular myth. Regards.
Stop the Bush Wars now, Nationalize the Federal Reserve, let Wallstreet and all their toxic paper expire worthless(we can go to Vegas to gamble) 8 trillion distributed to local bank branchs for lending would have kept people in houses and businesses solvent, functioning, with people employed and spending. WTF, is this the Twilight Zone or what? Paulson, Bernanke, Congress, etc.; inept, dishonest, treasonous.
What a messed up country we have where the the few adults that show up to put their butt on the line are the focus of derision by losers that contribute nothing other than allegiance to their masters. Mass Stockholm Syndrome! Oh yea, a few of those adults are Ralph Nader, Dennis kucinich, Jimmy Carter, Cindy Sheehan, Dr. Kervorkian, Yes that's right Dr. Kervorkian. These people are way out of their comfort zone for the public good and having to take crap from knuckleheads.
Also if some ditto-head suggests I should leave this country if I think it is so messed up I can only paraphrase Winston Churchill, "The U.S. is the worst country, except for all the others."
I do not believe you quote Churchill accurately, and I doubt he would have given the USA ascendancy over his own nation. I do remember a quote that said,"democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others".
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Our "Political Democracy" is a sham of the Capitalist system.
The best form of government is an economic democracy. It hasn't been fully realized yet, mostly because of the oppression from the Feudal/Mercantile/Capitalist Lords and their Fascist cohorts and political charades...
Let's keep trying.
I'm a Work kin for peace and cooperation.
With much love and care,
Mike Morin
www.peoplesequityunion.blogspot.com
Simple response. No, yes, and yes.
"Unfortunately, neither his boss, Bill Clinton, nor the Congress were in any mood to revisit this heavily lobbied federal deregulation law and reconsider the blocked consumer rights."
Consumer rights? It's not a question of rights, Ralph, it's a question of obligations. We are obligated to our selves and to the society (individual interests equal collective interests) to demand from the markets what is in our better interests. It is this demand that regulates production. All of the devious, domineering and destructive production goes extinct via natural selection. The pro-capitalist arguments by Adam Smith prevailing for two hundred years depended on consumer awareness and responsibility for protecting their better interests. If we find ourselves struggling to gain a few shreds of consumer "rights" we shouldn't step up that struggle, but instead switch to convincing the people to gain awareness and responsibility to control production via responsible market demands. Get to work on the new K-12 civics curriculum, people!
ANTITRUST LAWS and JAIL
Great idea. I've tried to help elect pro-progressive populist locals despite Nader's refusal to come out and help. It's a shame that the Nader worshippers don't take local and Congressional elections seriously. They think Nader is some god or something. Besides, where was Mr. Consumer Advocate these last 8 years when RIAA, MPAA, and the rest of Big Entertainment/Media were destroying P2P and conumers sick and tired of getting price gouged? I guess Nader's ok with corporate lawsuits from Big Entertainment.
Get your head out of your ass.
Tell yourself that sir.
all you do is bad mouth nader, what have you contributed to this forum other than to try and sell garbage about nader? you're wasting your time, you only look foolish.
And you still haven't answered Nader's silence on Big Entertainment's assault on privacy rights. Is it because he's taking plenty of corporate bribes from them too? So much for Nader posing as a "consumer advocate".
I loved your hysterical reply several efforts above...you omitted that fact that Nader is in contact with alien life forms....
I would suggest to you that most sane folks here have had quite enough of the slime that Nathan, TM and Joe Hope spread about Nader, most see through the transparency of their agendized rants and their blind obeisance to the Democratic party line. Most are simply using wisdom in ignoring them.
One is moved, certainly, to balance the scales in the face of such scurrilous and, in the cases of TM and Hope, irrelevant comments regarding Nader, most understand his mission is not to win office but to advance an agenda, one contrary to that of the democrats, thus the attacks, boring and untruthful.
Its just such a waste of effort.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
I'd say the man has been extremely busy. Nader is just one man and the rest of us need to get off our asses and fight for our rights, you included, rather then criticize him!
"the rest of us need to get off our asses and fight for our rights, you included, rather then criticize him"
I actually fought for helping people in my local area who share Nader's ideas get elected to local offices so that someday they might get to compete with my Republican counterparts in Congress. Even local DC could use some real clean up as I've heard of the corrupt politicians even on the local level out there. Plus I actually saved a few teenagers from getting seduced by the military recruiters. Nice to see an adult save at least a few good students from wasting their lives in foreign wars. I hope others including yourself can be that successful. Plus I grow more healthy produce and cut down on corn production because I believe in saving the environment and making a reasonable salary out of healthy produce to help others cut down on healthcare costs.
So what have you fought for and accomplished? And you still haven't answered Nader's silence on MPAA/RIAA's assault on privacy rights as they have been going out of their way to destroy P2P in their desperate efforts to keep their prices as high as they feel like regardless of their crappy music/video quality. When Hollywood can file frivolous corporate lawsuits against defenseless non-monied people and go out of their way to squash P2P innovativity just because P2P is not about money but about sharing, something is very wrong with this system. The Ralph Nader who used to be a tough raider on such corporate fraud back in the 1960s and 70s doesn't exist today. Why his silence?
Don't get me wrong. Nader has a lot of great ideas and all but it's perfectly ok to point out his flaws and weaknesses and remind ourselves about his actual accomplishments in the last 20 years instead of overstretch it to 40 all the while ignoring the last 20 years of all the undoing.
Maybe Nader can move to DC and run as DC mayor and clean up the local corruption in that city. That would strengthen his candidacy and probably convince me to vote for him were he to run for president again. What do you think?
You are an accomplished "progressive" and deserve the Nobel Prize for Progressive Causes.
We need to put pressure on Congress to empower Congressional Oversight Panel chaired by Elizabeth Warren that is monitoring how the $700 billion bailout is being spent to investigate the causes of the economic collapse.
The panel should be given subpoena power and a much broader mandate to investigate and propose reforms to our current financial system.
If we let the media run away with this story without insisting on sustained, transparent and accountable reform measures this country is going to sink.
After finding out that Ralph Nader owns lots of stock in defense and oil related companies he claims to be against, I now know why he too is doing little to stop the war. Sure, Democrats and Republicans own lots of stock in those companies but since Nader does too, then he's no different. Mr. Nader, we love your letters and all but please do us a favor by giving up all that dirty money and dump all your stocks and mutual funds investments or you're part of the problem. Thank you.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
You live in Capitalist country dude. Where are you invested in? Where do your taxes go? Ah. To the the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. So then, by your logic, you are directly guilty for the killing going on it those countries. Why should anyone listen to you?
And why should anyone listen to you Naderites who preach but never practice? Nader's supposed to lead not preach but I guess you couldn't care less. Face it, Nader's in the political grave writing dead man's letters these days.
Enough of the vindictive crap. Do you not understand that it isnt Ralph Nader's repute you damage it is your own?
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
You're damaging your own reputation along with your deluded thinking. Ralph Nader can't win without progressive independent folks on local levels and Congress to support him. Apparently, you never studied US history or how the political system work. You're one hell of a anti-Democrat basher but it is too bad that you are not bright enough. Don't worry though. You'll find out the hard way. In the meantime, just add me to your hate list and ignore the reality and keep dreaming of Nader as your "god".
Please forgive me Mr. Genius. I defer to your brilliance, oh "bright one". I don't hate. That is a Democratic value. I have no gods. Not Poohbah, not man, nor Party.
Pity is more the word than hate. I deal with what you post , which, on this thread, are a series of distractions that have absolutely no basis in fact, deal not with the points of the article but the personal problems you yourself seem to have.
You and your friend post the same already refuted distortions about Nader's portfolio, that despite the fact that links were posted disproving them many times in many thread. Even the fact that he temporarily lived with his SISTER in DC while shopping for his own place becomes a spurious and dastardly plank in your war of lies against the man. In fact you couldnt even get the gender of his landlord right...nice move, really smooth too.
It seems to me that you can support you own part without seeking to tear down the repute of a man who has devoted himself to public service his entire life...Please use a bit of self control to avoid posting the same tired smears about Nader's career you and your equally puzzling ally have already used. Lies are strong indications of your purpose.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
How original! More Dittohead-quality Nader slurs.
Think: does it make sense that a person who has spent his entire career tirelessly advocating certain principles would make financial investments that are antithetical to many of those principles? And would someone who knows well how financial markets work expect his own investments, of a public figure, to go unremarked-on and be secret?
Isn't it more likely that a.) he, like many Americans, may hold indirect investments in shitty companies because it's hard to keep track of where every dollar is invested once money is turned over to various financial instruments? and b.) the reports of Nader's horrible investments are old, exaggerated by people who wish to cast him in an ill light, or both?
Critical thinking skills required. Investigate before you parrot dumb attacks which don't make sense.
Nader can be a perfect preacher. Too bad he never practices what he preaches. LOL !
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/061800-01.htm
If you check out this article you will see that Ralph Nader lives on just $25,000 per year, donates more than 80% of his income, and doesn't even own a car.
Here is a quote from the article:
"Aside from modest personal expenses, I have always treated my income as a de facto philanthropic fund for many projects and institutions that serve the interests of consumers, the environment, labor and more accountable business and government," he said in a statement attached to his federal filing. "In short, monies I earn are for strengthening civil society."
Thank you ,bluebutterfly, for attempting to interject fact into what is basically a two man mugging of Ralph Nader. Why these two lower themselves and damage their own repute is a mystery to me, but they are of course free to do so.
Most of us are aware of the great works, vast intellect and boundless energy of this great American. Most of us are aware of the choices he made to serve his nation rather than to amass the great wealth available to him after law school. Most of us understand that attacking a man because of his (supposed) place of residence or his (supposed) sexual inclinations ( TM is a homophobe of some notoriety apparently) is cheap and shoddy, saying nothing about Nader or his motivation and volumes about those who sink to such levels.
I suspect Nathan and TM are untrustworthy at any speed......
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
He could have donated his money to local candidates across the country running who share his views but I guess local elections aren't important, are they? Besides, that article you posted confirms what some of us have been saying and that is that after the 1970s, Nader has nothing to show for his accomplishments and this decade alone has been dead zero.
NADER'S WORTH
A look at Ralph Nader's wealth:
* Net worth: $3.8 million
* Lifetime earnings: more than $13 million
* Speech income: $200,000 to $300,000 a year for 30 years
* Nonprofit donations: more than 80 percent of after-tax income
* Stocks held: Cadence Design Systems Inc., Cisco Systems Inc., ComCorp Inc., FiberCore Inc., Iomega Corp., Ziff-Davis Inc.
Update: Don't forget the oil and defense related companies in the last 8 years. (Thanks TMinSD)
I'm not so sure I can take Nader seriously. He could have used that money to run for a Senate seat in CT, move to DC and clean up local city corruption in politics, or even helped thousands of people running for local offices who share his ideas but he went into unrealistic ideas and look where that got him and the country.
Based on previous disclosure forms, his stock portfolio (through the Fidelity Magellan Fund) includes: Halliburton, Occidental Petroleum, the Limited, the Gap, Wal-Mart, Exxon-Mobil, Shell Oil Company, Sunoco, Texaco, Chevron Corporation, Raytheon (a major missile manufacturer), other various defense contractors, and Bristol-Myers Squibb.
Thanks joehope for the further updated info. It's amazing that Nader turned out to be enough of a hypocrite in 2000 but apparently he knew what Dubya had in store for him for the next 8 years. I'm glad Obama crushed that phoney green like a bug. Apparently, Nader's taking money from companies that also engage in sweat-shop labor expose his further hypocrisy. I used to have respect for that guy but after coming across these controversial actions of his, I now see him as a total phoney and would much prefer to stick to what we can get out of the Democratic Party.
he was also trained as a kung fu stun master and is able to hypnotize his audiences sending them into hystericAL REvery, and he gets thousands to send him their pennies and he smelts them down and ships the copper bars illicitly to china and the chinese mafia turns them into spittoons where they spit after cussing the americans and insulting their intelligence.
Then why don't you tell Ralph Nader to go to Iraq or Afghanistan and put his skills to work. My son and son-in-law didn't have to be the victim of your man putting W in the White House and dragging our young men and women into a bleak future we're now in !
Your son and son-in-law was the victim of 200,000 Democrats who voted FOR Bush in Florida in 2000. They were also victims of the Democrats who voted FOR the authorization that allowed G.W. Bush to commence "shock and awe". So please, put the blame where it belongs. This is one more example of why I spit on the Democratic Party. Ptooey!
What do you Naderites care for anyway, dragging everyone into your misery? I think 8 years took care of all that. I also notice that you say nothing about the Republicans who are no less guilty for this mess. You might do better spending time with your 23 yr old son who is on dialysis despite that kidney treatment you provided him in 1991 and if you want better policies, you have to do what folks like myself do. Fight on the local levels and hammer away at both Congress and White House. President Ralph Nader is just a pipe dream kind of like the dog who thought that the reflection of his bone he was holding was another bone only to lose his only bone when he tried to grab that illusion. It is better to be practical and realistic than it is to be hasty and unrealistic.
There is so much evidence to the contrary that I can only assume you do not care about truth..
I am sorry for your loss.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Ok Mr. Nader. We all know that happened and so forth. Will you know just get off your brother's couch and go out there and campaign for local candidates across the country who share your philosophy for a better America or are you going to keep finding fault? You got great ideas and all but nobody's going to listen to you outside the very small minority hardcore until you can help others who share your vision win local offices, statewide offices, and federal offices for a change. FDR did not win overnight. It took a united working class and putting individualism aside to give FDR a chance to put forth major reforms that were needed and back then unlike today we the public paid attention. Today, there are more self-reliant yankees and daydreamers who delude themselves into believing that only one man can solve everything and that local, state, or even Congressional races are somehow "irrelevant".
Your comment is partly a not-so-roundabout slam on Nader's willingness to do hard work for the cause, which is stupid in the extreme given the decades of campaigning, writing, public appearances, and organizational work he's done.
It's also a stupid jab at his supposed "ego" and individualism. Accusing Nader of being too individualistic requires a blindness to the philosophy underlying his life's work, and to what he's actively been doing for the last 40 years. The power of the consumer, populism, citizens' organizations, sacrifice in the name of the common good - these are some of the key principles he's worked hard to infect the public with. And that's a public who doesn't listen well or think critically.
Your jabs at Nader are Dittohead quality. We've heard them before and dismiss them.
Sioux Rose
YOHOCOMA: Thank you for standing up for Nader and using key facts!
Nader doing hard work? That's a nice joke. He sure did plenty of it in 2000 and then sat there in guilt thereafter.
"Accusing Nader of being too individualistic requires a blindness to the philosophy underlying his life's work, and to what he's actively been doing for the last 40 years."
Ah, the myth that Nader did a lot for the past 40 years when in the last 20 he did nothing other than spoil elections the best he could. But that's ok. Obama put that loser to rest.
"The power of the consumer, populism, citizens' organizations, sacrifice in the name of the common good - these are some of the key principles he's worked hard to infect the public with."
And how's that gone? Thanks for admitting his failure to get organizations to appeal.
And where was Nader these past 8 years when Big Entertainment especially the RIAA and MPAA were bullying P2P and trying to force consumers to accept their price fixing and gouging? Nader sided with the corporate lawsuits against people which was enough to show his hypocrisy.
"Your jabs at Nader are Dittohead quality. We've heard them before and dismiss them."
Maybe that's why Nader never wins. You have to learn to reach out instead of stay so puritanical otherwise it's useless. Sorry to bother you. Now go back to bed and keep dreaming.
More bullshit.
and you have won....?