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So Far, Obama's Missed The Point on Gaza...
It would have helped if Obama had the courage to talk about what everyone in the Middle East was talking about. No, it wasn't the US withdrawal from Iraq. They knew about that. They expected the beginning of the end of Guantanamo and the probable appointment of George Mitchell as a Middle East envoy was the least that was expected. Of course, Obama did refer to "slaughtered innocents", but these were not quite the "slaughtered innocents" the Arabs had in mind.
There was the phone call yesterday to Mahmoud Abbas. Maybe Obama thinks he's the leader of the Palestinians, but as every Arab knows, except perhaps Mr Abbas, he is the leader of a ghost government, a near-corpse only kept alive with the blood transfusion of international support and the "full partnership" Obama has apparently offered him, whatever "full" means. And it was no surprise to anyone that Obama also made the obligatory call to the Israelis.
But for the people of the Middle East, the absence of the word "Gaza" - indeed, the word "Israel" as well - was the dark shadow over Obama's inaugural address. Didn't he care? Was he frightened? Did Obama's young speech-writer not realise that talking about black rights - why a black man's father might not have been served in a restaurant 60 years ago - would concentrate Arab minds on the fate of a people who gained the vote only three years ago but were then punished because they voted for the wrong people? It wasn't a question of the elephant in the china shop. It was the sheer amount of corpses heaped up on the floor of the china shop.
Sure, it's easy to be cynical. Arab rhetoric has something in common with Obama's clichés: "hard work and honesty, courage and fair play ... loyalty and patriotism". But however much distance the new President put between himself and the vicious regime he was replacing, 9/11 still hung like a cloud over New York. We had to remember "the firefighter's courage to storm a stairway filled with smoke". Indeed, for Arabs, the "our nation is at war against a far-reaching network of violence and hatred" was pure Bush; the one reference to "terror", the old Bush and Israeli fear word, was a worrying sign that the new White House still hasn't got the message. Hence we had Obama, apparently talking about Islamist groups such as the Taliban who were "slaughtering innocents" but who "cannot outlast us". As for those in the speech who are corrupt and who "silence dissent", presumably intended to be the Iranian government, most Arabs would associate this habit with President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt (who also, of course, received a phone call from Obama yesterday), King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia and a host of other autocrats and head-choppers who are supposed to be America's friends in the Middle East.
Hanan Ashrawi got it right. The changes in the Middle East - justice for the Palestinians, security for the Palestinians as well as for the Israelis, an end to the illegal building of settlements for Jews and Jews only on Arab land, an end to all violence, not just the Arab variety - had to be "immediate" she said, at once. But if the gentle George Mitchell's appointment was meant to answer this demand, the inaugural speech, a real "B-minus" in the Middle East, did not.
The friendly message to Muslims, "a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect", simply did not address the pictures of the Gaza bloodbath at which the world has been staring in outrage. Yes, the Arabs and many other Muslim nations, and, of course, most of the world, can rejoice that the awful Bush has gone. So, too, Guantanamo. But will Bush's torturers and Rumsfeld's torturers be punished? Or quietly promoted to a job where they don't have to use water and cloths, and listen to men screaming?
Sure, give the man a chance. Maybe George Mitchell will talk to Hamas - he's just the man to try - but what will the old failures such as Denis Ross have to say, and Rahm Emanuel and, indeed, Robert Gates and Hillary Clinton? More a sermon than an Obama inaugural, even the Palestinians in Damascus spotted the absence of those two words: Palestine and Israel. So hot to touch they were, and on a freezing Washington day, Obama wasn't even wearing gloves.
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227 Comments so far
Show All"We are going to have to concentrate on domestic problems, we will have little choice. As will most of the other countries in the world."
THANK YOU ! I think we're right now in the minority but maybe the rest will follow as soon as they keep falling apart even though I don't like to see that happening.
As usual, the apologists for imperialist aggression are seeking to base their warfare in the Eurocentrist perspective on the world, which insists that there would be no order if the west weren't there to impose it. Exactly the opposite is true, the world is in the shape it is in today because global capitalism insists on having a world in which the right to a basic existence is a privilege for those who can buy or bully their way into it. The social Darwinist nightmare is a direct result of the arrogance of countries like the United States, which has no money to give its young people a universal education, but has all the money in the world to train them to kill, and kill, and kill.
The western world has no right at all- NO RIGHT AT ALL- to exact the pounds of flesh it assists Zionist racists and war criminals in exacting from Palestine. It was a near millenium long harssment of the Jews of Europe by the anti-Semites of Europe that resulted in Hitler's carnage. The Palestinians had nothing to do with it, but they've been held accountable for Europe's crimes against the Jew since 1948. If people in the west want to make restitution to the Jew- and they should- they should give them part of Europe, or part of the United States. Those things are theirs to give. Palestine isn't. But Palestine has been the victim of this absurdist atrocity since 1948.
As for anti-Semitism, no one group of people do more to further its advance then Zionists themselves, who continue to propagate the illusion that the emergence of Israel as a world power is anything but a creation of the western imperialist powers. Now, as the excesses mount, anti-Semites everywhere point their finger at the Jew. And the lies of Zionist ideologues, both here at Common Dreams and everywhere else in the western world, Zionist ideologues who are mostly white Euro-Americans and Europeans, advance this terrible compaign. They are the real anti-Semites, for they do as they do knowing that Jews who have nothing to do with their imperial butchery are falling victims to the guns and bombs of a people who are merely trying to retain basic human rights for their people. I don't know about Jews, but all mainstream ideologues who support Zionism and its
chosen race fantasies should burn in hell alongside every other race warriors who attempt to burn down the world every decade.
Fiddler: One BIG problem with your scheme about giving Jews part of the US--it is NOT yours to give.
It was taken from Native Americans through genocide--exactly the same as Palestine was taken by the Jews.
,
The United States is not, and can not, be a disinterested broker, or a honest peacemaker.
The bombs, planes, missles, bullets, and secret military aid packages furnished to the State of Israel; make the U.S.A., an accomplice to these "war crimes" against the Palestine peoples ( 2million imprisoned in Gaza and the West Bank, plus 3 million Palestinians displaced outside their historic homelands ).
U.S. Tax Dollars paid for the recent massacres, carnage, and destruction within the Gaza.
STOP ALL U.S. FUNDING of the State of Israel.
Withdraw, and avoid any involvements--military or otherwise-- in the Middle East.
Then their might be a slim chance that the factions might resort to real and desperate negociations..................
,
Obama said nothing while the Israelis were carrying out their 22 day genocide. This was indicative of his attitude, his subservience to things Jewish.
In the coming days the world will be watching his every move, his every pronouncement. Is he genuine or just another snake oil man?
Someone has to stand on Israel, stop it in its tracks before it does even more damage. Is Obama the Man?
If he's not, which other country will step up to the plate, nip Israel in the bud?
www.dangerouscreation.com
It is so very heartening to find so many fellow Americans going public with objections to Zionism, Israeli and American. Note: This is not a Jewish problem. Thousands of American Jews have campaigned for decades against Zionism, against oppression of Palestinians. What will it take for Israel to cease it's perpetual war of ethnic cleansing? A shut off of of U.S. funding. Israeli military dissenters have said for years, the minute U.S. funding stops, Israel would submit to a 2 state solution. We should stop being baited by the cliche " anti-Semite". Alarming - the longer the Israeli-American alliance continues, the more probable the entry of Al Quaida type actors enter the fray. Carry on. Courage.
In the US the main, perhaps the only, stumbling block is AIPAC - while it holds US politicians in thrall, there can be no hope for a just resolution of the I/P question.
And it is only possible for its grip to be loosened if American Jews reject it en masse and support a less Zionist organization such as the J Street Project.
One of the most peculiar traits of the human brain is its addiction to living in the past.
The past is just a bunch of excited neurons in some parts of our brains!
Jews will never forget the holocaust.
Palestinians will never forget the times when the state of Israel did not exist.
And they continue to kill each other over these memories.
When does fact become law? After how many years, generations, or killings?
Who wants to live in constant fear and paranoia?
When two partners disagree, even when two neighbors disagree, they may look for arbitration.
What would arbitration say?
Palestinians, accept the State of Israel; it's a fact.
Israelites, go back to the pre-1967 borders and dismantle the settlements; it's a precondition for peace.
Cut your losses. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Put your disagreements in the hands of a neutral, international court of law.
If we've had enough of this, what a nightmare it must be for you!
The nightmare of living in the past, fueled by the profits of warlords, on both sides.
Life is precious, life is short.
burt shachter
Eduardov, well-stated. Two victimized people, haunted by bitter memories, killing each other. Jews and Arabs once lived in relative peace sharing the same space. Good luck George Mitchell. You helped in Ireland. Hopefully you can help bring sanity to the Midde East.
Damn, this post is getting far more responses than all those domestic issue articles combined ! First, voters NEVER EVER pay attention to local elections and now I see that there's more worries about Israel vs Palestinians than the REAL needs of the country. If we would push harder for reasonable spending on the domestic front and keep tying it to the need for cutting down on wasteful military spending including transferring WMDS as "US Foreign Aid" to Israel, Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, etc ... who are just the worst rogue nations, we wouldn't be in this rut already ! It's time for America to grow up by PAYING ATTENTION TO LOCAL ELECTIONS AS THE REAL ROAD TO REPAIRING WASHINGTON !!
JWVerez
Good point! Excellent point!
Thank you Thomas. This issue of Israel vs Palestinians sometimes get so sickening to the point that I feel it's a major distraction. Already, my blood is boiling at the Obama administration for allowing Dubya's last minute pro-drill-drill-drill rules to get a "free" pass and even as that article is posted on this site, very few replies to it. Don't worry though, he has 4 years to correct that and more even though I'll be keeping my fingers crossed until he can convince me otherwise. I do like some of his actions on paving the road to closing GITMO though I still see no indication he'll get this one going and I worry that he'll once again cave in to the DLCers, Blue Dogs, and partisan Republicans on post-poning it a few months, then a year, and then another or if some attack breaks out post-poning it indefinitely.
Overall, I cannot understand what is with these people who go overboard discussing matters they have virtually no control over all the while gleefully ignoring local and domestic issues which are pounding us day after day even as we speak. I've been a bit light on posting since I really wanted to take a break from all this craziness on all these blogs. Just looking at Huffpost and Alternet as well as this site and the way people give priorities to all the wrong issues makes me sick. I wished these blogs would bring up local issues from all 50 states so that even people in crimson red states can feel that they're included. I know some freak on this forum will call me anti-Palestinian or self-centered even when all I'm asking for is drawing the line. Maybe I'll set up a seperate blogger and invite if I can and try to find other people in other places across this country to post their progressive/liberal concerns from their places. I don't know. :(
The fact that more important articles get short shrift here on CD has begun to worry me somewhat. Of course they don't have the dramatic qualities of the Palestinian conflict.
I don't have any fear at all that Obama will not close the Gitmo prison. None at all. It does, like most things, is a bit more involved than some will always think, but it will be done before the year limitation I believe.
The Supreme Court issued an appalling ruling on Susette Kelo’s case that essentially gutted the Takings Clause of the 5th Amendment by allowing governments to condemn private property on the mere possibility that the property would generate more tax revenue if put to a different use by a different owner.
I haven't heard or seen one squeak about that.
I do believe you are right about this and it is going to become evident that domestic problems are going to be front and center soon enough. Though I hope fervently I'm wrong about the bad economy I see coming. The trouble should be here by mid summer and the hurting will start.
"The Supreme Court issued an appalling ruling on Susette Kelo’s case that essentially gutted the Takings Clause of the 5th Amendment by allowing governments to condemn private property on the mere possibility that the property would generate more tax revenue if put to a different use by a different owner.
I haven't heard or seen one squeak about that."
On this issue, I think it gets kind of dicey. I do believe in private property especially since I finished paying up for my home. Government had better have a pretty darn good reason and they had better provide relocation assistance completely or they're just as good as Al Queda ! And I thought SCOTUS's CT ruling back in 2005, or was that 2006, was bad enough. Surprisingly, the conservative justices got that issue right.
"Though I hope fervently I'm wrong about the bad economy I see coming. The trouble should be here by mid summer and the hurting will start."
Whenever it strikes, we all had better be economic vigilantes no doubt.
Deepa
Winston Churchill's RACIST comment on Palestine:
In 1937, Winston Churchill said of the Palestinians: "I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger, even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit, for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race, a more worldly-wise race, to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
Sadly, these RACIST countries are the "peacemakers" in the world and the members of the UN Security Council.
Deepa, you might find these witticisms of Winston Churchill, whose most famous bust was kept inside the Oval Office until a few days ago, disturbing as well:
If the British left, "India will fall back quite rapidly through the centuries into the barbarism and privations of the Middle Ages".
When, in March 1941, Amery expressed his "anxiety about the growing cleavage between Moslem and Hindu, Churchill "at once said: `Oh, but that is all to the good'" (because it would help the British stay a while longer).
An entry of September 1942 in the Amery diaries reads: "During my talk with Winston he burst out with: `I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion'."
...when the question of grain being sent to the victims of the Bengal famine came up in a Cabinet meeting, Churchill intervened with a "flourish on Indians breeding like rabbits and being paid a million a day by us for doing nothing by us about the war."
Deepa thanks for pointing this out. I had read these comments way back in the past and was shocked as to how admired this racist was in the US. Churchill was an uncompromising racist on par with his nemesis Hitler.
The U.N. has been rendered impotent long ago by American actions. The 'permanent members' in the security council basically own the U.N., which defeats the purpose of a representative world body. In fact the U.N. is dangerous as it has been co-opted and is used as a tool to perform empires bidding. The U.N. needs to be dismantled completely.
Right now, the whole world is rejoicing in Obama's inauguration, But it's seems that most of the commentary seems totally obsessed with praising Hamas and demonizing Israel. It seems that the extreme-left never ceases to enjoy attacking the Children of Israel
Give it a rest.
Israel has ended it's operation in Gaza.
How much longer are people going to continue to rant about this? It's over. Hamas lost. Get over it.
Instead of focusing all our attention on Israel, maybe as Americans, we could try paying attention to America instead? Last time I checked, America has it's own problems to deal with.
"Instead of focusing all our attention on Israel, maybe as Americans, we could try paying attention to America instead? Last time I checked, America has it's own problems to deal with."
joehope, thank you too. We may not agree necessarily on Israel but you and I know darn well that we're missing the boat on healing this nation by getting obsessed with Gaza. Maybe you're catching up better than I thought. I'll help you out on the rest. Well, see my response to Thomas More on this post for more details.
Even though your views on Israel are pretty offensive to me, at least we can both agree to put the conflict in perspective. For all the ranting and raving about Israel/Palestine, it's amazing and disgraceful how little attention is paid to America, as well to other more extreme conflicts like in Sudan or the Congo.
The left is has O.C.D. on this issue.
Over 1 million people have died in Iraq just since the invasion, 1 million more died in the 90's, and 1 million more died during the Iran/Iraq war.
As horrible as the body count is for the Gaza conflict, it's a relatively minor conflict when compared globally. Why is it such a focal point for rage and hatred? I believe it's antisemitism that makes this issue so popular. At least, that's the only reason I can see why the world cares about Israel more than Chechnya, Tibet, Sri Lanka, Columbia, Sudan, or the Congo.
joehope, you are a piece of work. Charles Manson has stopped butchering movie stars in California too. Maybe we should let him out of jail so he can baby sit your kids. The "Children of Israel" ain't no children either. They eat children. Get over it??? Are we now forgiving crimes that happened over a week ago? Don't hold your breath waiting for me to give it a rest. Don't bother searching for common ground with me on this issue. You and me are at war.
Will you give it a fucking rest already? Israel is at war with the Palestinians, not the US. Yes, we the US are guilty of providing Israel lopsided assistance to the Israelis but if we're gonna solve that then we got to start paying more attention to our own homeland and tie the domestic issues to foreign policy. For example, instead of giving away $100 billion yearly in military aid to Israel, Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc ..., why not use that money on repairing our public infrastructure for the states and local communities? Now quit being a warmonger because right now, you're sounding more like a Bushite which the conservatives want you to do. And if you're at war, then go to Gaza and fight the Israelis as you wish. The rest of us can fight them peacefully and harmlessly by cutting down on unnecessary military aid to these rogue nations.
Now you're talking. If I were Obama I would immediately do exactly as you suggest - an even handed and total cessation of money and military hardware to both the Israelis and the Palestinians. That would not, of course, seriously impact the Palestinians, but it should, if both sides choose to continue their 6000 year old hostilities, begin to level the playing field. To put Israel in a position where its security depends on no longer cultivating enemies. Make nice or die. How satisfying.
I don't need to make war with Israel. The postman is going to bring them a lethal load of return mail very shortly, and all I need to do is make popcorn and pull up a chair.
I am at war only metaphorically, inasmuch as I do not stand with or associate with people who make excuses for Israel's odious behavior. I am at war with child molesters and dog kickers and Columbian drug cartels and international gun runners and sadistic cops and murderous zionists and their pathetic apologists. I wish them ill and I want them gone. That's a great idea you have. Let's stop feeding them.
"If I were Obama I would immediately do exactly as you suggest "
Thankfully, you are not Obama, and thankfully, he completely disagrees with you. It's a matter of public record.
"Thankfully, you are not Obama, and thankfully, he completely disagrees with you. It's a matter of public record."
You got that right. Obama is the biggest Israel supporter since Bush. Take a look at the Lewinsky he gave AIPAC with that speech.
Hi voxclamantis, if Obama tried to cut funding for Israel would Congress have to sign off?
It wouldn't matter. If BHO tried that, Washington D.C would be VAPORIZED. Do I jest? Did Canada bring the towers down, the Boy Scouts of America? Did al-Queda stand Norad down and implement the super-sophisticated controlled demolitions we saw?
And the bomb would have these words written on it, in Hebrew nat-urally, "You forgot the U.S.S. Liberty"
But D.C. ain't forgotten. That was nothing.
Signed, one who believes in Palestine, and who hopes Sweet Israel will get well. azjoe.
That's why we need to nail not only Obama but also Congress for its dereliction of duty. Inventing conspiracy theory fear mongering excuses only gives them the green light to give you and I the middle finger. Maybe I'm wrong but it's not difficult to tie domestic needs to the need to cut back on war and weapons spending madness.
Don't worry. One of these days, the majority of this country will realize that we're seriously defeating ourselves on the local levels where we're all affected the most and learn to repair the damage from the bottom on up instead of top to bottom confusion. It remains to be seen if the lesson will be learned the easy or hard way.
"I am at war only metaphorically, inasmuch as I do not stand with or associate with people who make excuses for Israel's odious behavior. I am at war with child molesters and dog kickers and Columbian drug cartels and international gun runners and sadistic cops and murderous zionists and their pathetic apologists. I wish them ill and I want them gone. That's a great idea you have. Let's stop feeding them."
Great list!
"an even handed and total cessation of money and military hardware to both the Israelis and the Palestinians."
Of course if Iran and Syria keep arming Hamas it doesn't work.
voxclamantis wrote, "The "Children of Israel" ain't no children either. They eat children."
You remind me of someone...
Is this you?
"Atlas brings us video of a man in a Nazi-esque Jew mask apparently miming eating dead babies during a U.K. protest. Pam asks, where is the international outrage? There is none because the left and their Muslim allies have spent the last decade and a half mainstreaming anti-Semitism. Watch and be disgusted:"
http://www.red-alerts.com/liberal-racism/blood-libel-watch-degenerates-claim-jews-eat-babies-target-ambulances/
joehope
I don't believe the left has Muslim allies or that they are all anti-semetic. Do you really believe that?
Granted there are anti-semites that post here, but not that many.
The site you got that video from is a radical right wing site exactly like some radical progressive sites that spew hatred and present only one biased side of an argument. I'd suggest you get information from more reputable sources.
You mean the anti-semitic jews that are the true racists on this board? There are less semites in Israel that in Palestine.
Anti Jewish if you guys prefer. But anti Semetic is pretty well accepted to mean anti Jewish.
In any case its just another form of bigotry and racism.
You needn't be an etymologist or linguistics expert to see how Jews have framed the word 'semite' to reflect their own perception of the world. This is a very shrewd people who have managed to control virtually all U.S. citizens and still cry foul. By acquiring the ancient term 'semite' and framing it as their own, they have managed to confuse a very easy to confuse populace.
"Maybe we should let him out of jail so he can baby sit your kids."
vox ... dude ... that was hilarious !!!
The zionist f~!@ks on the board never cease to amaze me. Their hands are soaked in blood and their argument runs like this --- " Yeah we committed murder with your weapons and money. Suck it up. We will do whatever the fuck we want. So what ?".
Israel should be dismantled and shipped off to Alaska. Zionists and rednecks seem to have a lot in common.
Wrong on several counts. Nobody won, but Hamas has only to survive to remain undefeated. Home made rockets are not going to defeat Israel, don't cause enough casualties to qualify as a military problem and could be defended against with a series of radar/gatling gun networks for far less cost than the last invasion. That such a system is not in place speaks volumes.
Israel pulverized a good chunk of Gaza and killed Palestinians but has not stopped the homemade rockets from coming over, has not stopped the tunnels out of the Gaza Gulag and has not ceased operations in Gaza. It's hard to see how this is a win for Israel particularly when pictures of shredded 'combatants' show they are under five years of age. Even the best propaganda machine has trouble spinning that.
Israel has unfortunately become its ultimate fear.
I would suggest to you that the rockets have indeed stopped coming over. Unless I have missed something.
And if they start again don't be surprised if Gaza is treated the same again. The terror aspect is gleefully ignored by Palestinian advocates, but it is very real and Israel has made that sbundantly clear I believe.
I note you have picked up Hamas propaganda speaking about "homemade rockets" as if they are somehow not dangerous or OK because they are homemade. And in fact most of the rockets are not homemade, not that it makes any difference.
They have made their point....but "win"...no one, no one at all win's when the shooting starts. Shooting just affirms failure.
Go on Thomas; Stop defending the Zionist war criminals. The rockets were stopped from Gaza under an agreed and extendable ceasefire which Israel deliberately broke and trounced with targeted assassinations and siege. Hamas are using what limited means they have and their civilian to military ratio seems better than Israel’s.
No, no....I don't mean then, I mean now. There aren't any rockets being fired into Israel now. And thats because of the invasion. So I'd say they made their point.
The mistake everybody keeps making is that I am defending Israel, I'm not. I'm not defending Hamas, Iran or Syria either. I'm simply saying what I think.
Yes Israel broke the truce by intrusion into Gaza and killing those 6 men. Firing the Rockets was Hamas's response. I believe it was a miscalculation on Iran and Syria's part to do it. I think the Israeli respose surprised them.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Israel had the same response if rockets are fired into Israel again.
Israel has already broken the cease fire. They've been shelling Gaza fishing boats and the coast since the 'cease fire' started. Do a search on Israel Gaza fishing and see for yourselves. Understand that this is what Israel does. They push and break cease fires, truces, peace agreements, etc until Hamas or Hezbolah or whomever finally is forced to respond and then Israel BLAMES it on them and says THEY broke the cease fire. The worst part, Americans believe Israel 1000% and 1000% of the time. Americans will question their own government BEFORE they question Israel. What is wrong with us???
actually, Hamas has not lost. Polls had showed that before the Isreal attacks, Hamas would lose the palestinin parliament that they won in free and fair elections, before the US/Isreal sponsored Abbas/Fatah coup.
But post attacks, Hamas stands to win big if Palestine holds an election.
As far as More's mention of the rockets. The rockets had also stopped from June until November 6, when Isreal broke the ceasefire by invading Gaza and killing six Hamas fighters.
As Chomsky mentioned, Isreal has the right to defend itself, but not through force, as long as other options are fully open - like retreating to the 1967 border dismantling the wall, ending the land seizures and settlement building.
---USAn---
"How much longer are people going to continue to rant about this? It's over. Hamas lost. Get over it."
Johope, you are a monster - not a human at all. Maybe you are just an AI bot, but if you are composed of flesh, you are the most vile contemptable thing I've eve experienced.
Go to Gaza and tell a father who has lost his children what you have typed here.
---USAn---
Yesterdays atrocities are todays amnesia. Yep thats what the Judge told the serial killer " You butchered those people yesterday so there is no reason to prosecute you today" Great legal system!
I am really getting tired of reading your reactionary, uncritical, knee-jerk-emotional shrouding of Israel in your protective embrace. In your eyes, Israel can do no wrong. Like many on the right (and left), you have your jig-saw puzzle built and you just can't deal with either missing or extra pieces. As to the pieces that just won't fit, you simply toss them aside.
No amount of historical evidence - documentary proof as to Israel's intentions from even BEFORE day one - will spur you to disassemble or rearrange your masterpiece.
But a warning, joehope, from Leonard Cohen:
"You win a while, and then it’s done –
Your little winning streak.
And summoned now to deal
With your invincible defeat,
You live your life as if it’s real,
A Thousand Kisses Deep."
"no gods, no masters" --m. sanger
Funny, there was an op-ed in today's NY Times that was better written and more progressive than Fisk's article, or any of the reponses to Fisk's article. The author: Muammar Qaddafi.
In an ideal world where each side can learn to forgive and forget, Qaddafi may be right: "The compromise is one state for all, an "Isratine" that would allow the people in each party to feel that they live in all of the disputed land and they are not deprived of any one part of it."
But the problem is that both the Israelis and Palestinians have been born and bred to hate each other. Yes, in the past, they got along. But how long ago was that? Both sides have mostly young and middle-aged people in it who only know about war and hate. At least one or two generations would need to pass for either side to begin to live peacefully - side by side. Can they, and the world, wait that long?
I don't know the hidden agenda behind Qaddafi's op-ed, but if you are familiar with the man, you gotta know he has one.
And this is the part that's bullshit: "Assimilation is already a fact of life in Israel. There are more than one million Muslim Arabs in Israel; they possess Israeli nationality and take part in political life with the Jews, forming political parties. On the other side, there are Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Israeli factories depend on Palestinian labor, and goods and services are exchanged. This successful assimilation can be a model for Isratine."
That, folks, is pure propaganda. There's this thing called a "wall", and there are good highways that only Israelis can use, and there are Israeli settlements and bulldozers, and there are checkpoints, etc. The Israelis consider themselves as first-class citizens - and they consider the Palestinians as third-class servants, or worse. To sum it up: Israel is the occupier and the Palestinians its victims.
Read Qaddafi's propaganda piece for yourself at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/opinion/22qaddafi.html
"But the problem is that both the Israelis and Palestinians have been born and bred to hate each other"
Same could be said about the German and French. The Germans called them "Erbfeind" (the "hereditary enemy"). It took hundreds of to become enemies; several wars ... and 20, 30, years of intensive work on both sides to change that.
Never say never. Not saying that it would be easy. But you cant continue to live with hate in your heart; so something needs to be done.
I'm not saying "Never." And does it sound like I have hate in my heart? I'm trying to be realistic. We can't be looking at pipe-dream solutions. They will only deter us from reality.
I also said "At least one or two generations would need to pass for either side to begin to live peacefully - side by side. Can they, and the world, wait that long?" Things are so volatile in the Middle East right now that we could very well be looking at WWIII. And soon.
You seem to confirm my point with "and 20, 30, years of intensive work on both sides to change that."
Again, Can the world wait that long?
"But the problem is that both the Israelis and Palestinians have been born and bred to hate each other"
Same could be said about Americans and, well, pretty much the rest of the world.
Oh, I don't especially agree with Qadaffi. After Oslo, Israel moved towards economic co-development, but the recent security situation has caused a sharp reversal of direction. Such institutional commitment to peace as exists, is in the direction of a two-state solution. There's no going back to the drawing board, at this stage of the game.
Most of all, "Death to the Yahood" is a universal Muslim value, very well-entrenched. It's become so common to see Pakistanis attacking Jews in England, Persians attacking Jews in Buenos Aires, because "they stole Jerusalem from us," that the bizarreness of the assertion doesn't even register, any more. In Palestine, a country where the median income is below $2000, any consortium of Iranian or Pakistani or Arab or Turkish or Malay businessmen/professionals can afford to fund a terrorist group with a Jew-killing mission.
Most Muslims are antisemitic and pro-terrorism, both of which they understand to be Allah-endorsed. Unless they are all going to give it up simultaneously, there will be enough around to keep an Islamic Jihad in business, and peace out of the questioin, for a long time to come.
I was mostly referring to the tone of the Qadaffi piece, which is more peace-making than, say, yours.