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Tunnel Vision
ARISH, Egypt - As I write, we can hear the dull thud of explosions in the distance. Israeli airstrikes continue to blast targets in southern Gaza. Merciless bombing of the small Gaza Strip continues into a third week. I heard some people here in Egypt wonder if the Israeli Air Force must be running out of places and people to target. But perhaps the surveillance drones we heard and saw flying over the Rafah border crossing today hunted down more spots on which bombers could fix their cross-hairs. Perhaps they spotted underground tunnels. The Israeli government has, reportedly, already destroyed 80% of the tunnels that connect Gaza with the outside world. It's common knowledge that a vast network of tunnels, some say as many as 1700, were constructed, many from outside Gaza's territorial borders, leading into the Territory. Israel claims the tunnels are legitimate targets because the Hamas government can use them to import weapons. But the buildup of the tunnel industry was fueled by desperation for needed goods, within Gaza, a desperation caused by Israel's decision, over the past 16 months, to tighten the thumbscrews of its blockade on Gaza. If the blockade continues, and if the tunnels are completely destroyed, besieged Gazans will be cut off from secure supplies of food, medicine and fuel, yet another terrifying prospect for people who are desperate to protect their children from any greater harm.
Supposedly concerned for Israeli security, the United States supports the Israeli government's objective of eliminating Hamas's capacity to fire primitive rockets into Israel. The extensive tunnel industry may be used for weapons transport. I believe it's wrong to transport weapons, and it's wrong to develop, store, sell or use them. Distant thuds reinforce this belief, but if the U.S. and Israel believe importation of weapons via underground tunnels is wrongful, then the U.S. transfer of sophisticated weaponry to Israel must, seen in perspective, be abominable, given the slaughter Israel has inflicted on Gazan civilians since the airstrikes began on December 27th.
The taxpayers of the U.S. provided Israel with F16 fighter jets and missiles to carry out these attacks. From 2001 – 2006, the United States transferred to Israel more than $200 million worth of spare parts to fly its fleet of F16s. Last year, the United States signed a $1.3 billion contract with Raytheon to transfer to Israel thousands of TOW, Hellfire, and "bunker buster" missiles. In July 2008, the United States gave Israel 186 million gallons of JP-8 aviation jet fuel.
U.S. donations of jet fuel enable Israel to fire missiles into Gazan homes, streets, schools and hospitals. Meanwhile, ambulances drivers in Gaza, also directly targeted, don't have enough diesel fuel to bring injured and wounded people to the Rafah border crossing, where patients might be allowed to enter Egypt for critically needed care.
Within Gaza, even before December 27th, civilians lacked essential fuels to power the main power plant, which operated at about 2/3 capacity. Now, it's inoperative. When trucks don't have fuel, this means that rubbish can't be collected. Hundreds of tons of rubbish went uncollected in Gaza because of the blockade. 77,000 cubic meters of raw and partially treated sewage were dumped into the sea. Farmers couldn't operate 70% of their agricultural wells. Power cuts affected hospitals, water pumps, sewage treatment plants, bakeries and other facilities dependent on back-up diesel generators.
Now Gazans not only face the consequences of a destroyed health care system and rising sickness due to water-borne diseases, they also face the reality that Hamas could be forced to sign a cease-fire that doesn't allow for opening the Rafah border and which insists that Egypt assume responsibility to prevent usage of underground tunnels. In exchange for relief from cowering under bombs fired by sophisticated weapon systems, Gazans would be required to endure slow motion death through systematic cutoffs of their access to food, medicine, and potable water. This is why it is so important for people all over the world to insist that Israel not only stop attacking Gaza, but also end the brutal and lethally punitive blockade imposed on Gaza.
Here in Egypt, the government has stated that it will undertake responsibility to be an effective partner in negotiating a cease-fire.
Israelis expect Egyptians to stop the tunnel industry. Egypt would be responsible to assure that no one enters a tunnel, builds a tunnel, or is an accomplice to maintaining a tunnel. Already, any Egyptian caught inside a tunnel faces 15 years in prison. How much better for all concerned if the cease-fire negotiations asked the Egyptians to maintain an open border with Gaza, to lift the punitive blockade, and to assist in the immediate and ongoing transport of goods and services that could help Gaza rebuild and assume responsibility, above-ground, for maintaining its citizenry and its sovereignty.
Egypt, the second largest recipient of military aid from the U.S., will be encouraged to use threat and force to curtail the tunnels, supposedly in the name of insuring security for Israel. But who will challenge the obscenely bloated so-called "defense industry" that allows elite gangs, some comfortably occupying the board rooms of major corporations, to supply a repressive, immoral and illegal occupation force with the disproportionate capacity to kill, using conventional weapons against civilian people who have no means to escape?
U.S. support for hard-line, extremist Israeli government policies again represents tunnel vision by choice. U.S. foreign policy makers can begin a cure for this dangerously impaired vision by recognizing the basic human rights of all Palestinian people, and at this crucial moment by caring for the survival and dignity of Gazan people, especially those for whom meeting basic needs depends on what might come through a tunnel.
Kathy is writing from Arish, a town near the Rafah border between Egypt and Gaza. Bill Quigley, a human rights lawyer and law professor at Loyola New Orleans and Audrey Stewart are also in Egypt and contributed to this article.
- Posted in
56 Comments so far
Show AllI wish Obama would tell Israel to "Tear down those Walls." There can be no peace while refugee camps and ghettos continue to exist. Demand an end to Israeli Apartheid.
The Jaded Prole
Sioux Rose
Well, I will make my donation to Kathy Kelly whose work I applaud. The Israelis have effected a humanitarian disaster. It's always tragic to both villain and victim when the lessons etched so bloodily into history remain not only unlearned, but almost re-enacted with a vengeance. Is the ego so blind as to think that in wrong doing it will be spared the inevitable boomerang of karmic blowback? I feel sad for Israel, shades of Christ's purported words, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." True religion lifts hearts and minds to the recognition that whatever the skin hue or belief system, ALL are children of The same Source, and it's as best we can determine, composed of Light, made manifest as matter (or flesh).
Bobby Love
Hi Sioux Rose: I always find your commentary very heartfelt and level-headed. I would like to hear from you hopelovenow@yahoo.com May we all realize our Oneness and live in harmony.
Sioux Rose
Hi. Thank you for the kind words. I am not sure if Bobby is a male or female, but the first boy that I was ever smitten with (3rd or 4th grade) was named Bobby. And my best friend's Grandson (who she is raising) is also named Bobby, and he's just a doll. He loves when I visit. He tries to keep me all to himself, very cute. He's 11.
90% of the House just voted to support Israel and the Senate voted unanimously.
I look ahead to 2010 when the Democrat Apologists will call for the election of even more Democrats because there still aren't enough to fulfill all those promises they traded for your vote and your money.
locust wrote:
90% of the House just voted to support Israel and the Senate voted unanimously.
COMMENT:
Okay, once again, let's hear from some of the Democrat apologists about how Democrats are somehow so much different and so much better than Republicans. I need to hear it again because Democrats make it is so damn easy to forget.
Want an idea that we can send viral?...On the night of the inauguration...January 20th.....at 8PM....We the People step outside and hold a candle, a flashlight or a torch for the starving and dying children in Gaza...a message to the new president and a message to the new CONgress that we do not support the slaughter of innocent children..............Please send it around to everyone you know......IT'S THE LEAST WE THE PEOPLE CAN DO FOR THE GUILTLESS CHILDREN OF GAZA............
O:I'm putting a light in my window.
O wrote:
a message to the new president and a message to the new CONgress that we do not support the slaughter of innocent children
COMMENT:
Sure, sending messages to the president and to Democrats in Congress worked so well in stopping the slaughter of innocent children during eight years of sanctions in the 90s as 5,000 children died a month, didn't it?
It will work just as well now, because, you know: Democrats really care about kids dying. Just ask one - perhaps Madeleine Albright
Greetings to CommonDreamers from xglampf and rglorpf, who watch the earth from afar.
rglorpf wishes me to convey his willingness to serve as a suicide bomber for Hamas. Being blown to pieces is how we reproduce ourselves here on Zeblon2. Each smithereen generates a complete new organism with the same agenda as the original, so in this we are similar to Islamic militants. Probably the relatives of the 800 dead Gazans will provide more than enough volunteers, but rglorpf would be happy to jump into the game if his unusual appearance would not be a problem. Let us know.
Also we are curious why the Palestinians go to such trouble to acquire primitive rockets which do no damage. Those things must weigh 400 earth pounds. For the same price and an easier smuggle they could get modern sniper rifles and terminate many times more of the opposing team. Perhaps they are concerned only with making a statement and not causing real harm, but it is hard to tell from up here.
I must go now and make popcorn. Netflix does not service our part of the galaxy, so we are dependent on your peculiar species for entertainment. Please do not adjust your behavior on our account.
Best wishes
x&r
They go through the trouble because even when they are not attacking Israel, the IDF constantly wages war against them. And the IDF uses REAL weapons, not homemade garbage can rockets.
If someone is going to hit me while I'm tied to a chair, then accuse me of fighting dirty because I kick him in the nads every time he gets close enough...who's really fighting dirty?
Egypt, Jordan, and Israel along with the US and UN are guilty as sin for screwing the Palestinians. Is this what you expected "change and hope" from Obama to be all about?
He is not in charge of anything yet.
Yep, I've seen that argument before but despite knowing from his Senate tenure, I'll say this. Fine, we'll wait and see and if he turns out any better, you win. Otherwise, I told you so.
As a human being he's in charge of his mouth. As President-elect he may not have a "bully pulpit" (what a gross phrase now), but a high standing pulpit none the less. I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt until his inaugural address, but to watch and listen to his change commencing with the Rev. Wright controversy, divorcing himself from his spiritual mentor and the one who performed his marriage and children's baptisms - avoiding for political expediency the number one conversation America could use right now: the "Wright" conversation for peace - where the terms "terrorist" and "haters" will be clearly debated and defined...in addition to his invocations to "killing" (bin Laden) in order to counter McCain's militarism...though I maintain a small flicker of hope, Obama appears to be getting swallowed by "the Beast", so I'll agree with the commentator who charged it's up to The People to come forward...somehow...
(gosh darn Kathy Kelly and her witness...every time I get a nice layer of barnacles to cover my heart she pops up to scrap them off...back to witnessing, back to agitating, back to inviting any who would join the "Wright" conversation for peace, back to truly living I suppose...)
Sioux Rose
PUCK: I second your high praise for Ms. Kelly. She is an enlightened soul who lives her truth and is a beacon to the rest of us.
If Isreal does succeed at destroying Hamas, what will replace them?
Does anyone think that it would really be a group dedicated to peaceful coexistance? Are they delusional?
I highly doubt that the rest of the world will long continue to give a pass to the isreali's today because of a genocide 60 years ago. I also think that those who died in the death camps would be horrified at the actions of today's isreal, which are carried out in their names. If they had graves, they'd be spinning in them.
saturnalia, i totally agree with you, as well as others here, (Sioux Rose as usual). Although i must say to Sioux, i do believe they know what they do-- but i think your point was that they haven't actually learned. I just think they believe it is owed to them. And as you know, i am jewish as well.
Anyway, i do agree that the behavior of israel would horrify most who died in the death camps. I have come to believe that redemption is when we evolve through tragedy. That is a 'saving grace'. It gives meaning to the horror. What else can? But no real meaning was found. Just chutzpa without compassion.
I don't really think that the jewish religion was meant to have a nation state. But this is all a journey. Yes, Sioux, the blowback is gonna be huge. I see the writing on the wall. Scary stuff. Survival just can't work when it is exclusive. The whole paradigm is so out worn. For everyone, of course.
But it seems that, ironically enough, israel is teaching the world something here. It is so obvious and disproportionate that one would need to be completely heartless or brain dead not to realize the pathology of it. It is as though a microcosm is being presented that represents the entire history of humanity.
Something is shifting so darn fast now! The shadow is darkest when the sun is brightest. I just thought of that, but i think it may be true.
Peace to all ....
The shadow is darkest when the sun is brightest. I just thought of that, but i think it may be true.
I do hope you're right. About the nation state thing, I'm quite sure anytime that a 'religious' state has emerged in history the teachings of that religion has suffered. That was one of the better ideas that the usa's founders had; separating religion and state powers. Yes, religious belief should be protected. No, religious beliefs ought not to be shoved down another's throat.
readytotransform wrote:
I don't really think that the jewish religion was meant to have a nation state.
COMMENT:
Now the Lord said to Abram [before he changed his name to Abraham], "go from you country [on their way from Iraq, nee Mesopotamia] and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. I will make of you a great nation.... [Gen 12:1-2]
Later the "Lord" said the land for the nation would extend from the Nile to the Euphrates. That's a seriously large nation. Eventually Egypt, then Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, and more, but first they got to kill off those pesky folks in Gaza. With some help from the great empire in the West.
So you see, the Jewish religion really was meant to have a nation state according to the Jewish religion. Truth can be so disconcerting and ugly.
actually, Advocate, the 'jewish religion' really doesn't espouse a nation state. It was more like a dream held by people who were always being persecuted in the christian countries they traveled to and lived in.
The idea of a 'homeland' or 'promised land' is a place where people can live in harmony and be free. It is a state of 'Being', not a piece of real estate. It is an evolutionary process. But that is what happens when people are literalists and fundamentalists of any persuasion.
The christian zionists (bizarre i know) are the ones who talk as you have referenced. At least in my personal experience. In fact, most jewish people don't quote scripture and verse. Very non-jewish....
Maybe you should do some more reading about what is being done by Jews all over the world on this issue. It isn't too hard to find.
Many posters here are more filled with hate than with caring about the innocents who are being destroyed. It is too bad. Nothing is learned....
Sioux Rose
YOHOCOMA: Every rhetorical question/castigation you make aimed here at the Jewish people could be equally projected at all Americans, as if WE are in a position to rein in a government that's entirely out of control. Citizens are spied upon, peaceful groups are infiltrated, a data base has been amassed on likely progressive activists, nor is Habeas Corpus a guarantee these days. Get the drift? The extent to which militarism and its bazarre of weapons have advanced stands in direct inverse relationship to the degree to which civilian voices are recognized. Similar trends exist in Israel as in the U.S. Democracy has become a brand name, it is to nutrition what biogenetically engineered items are to food.
readytotransform wrote:
actually, Advocate, the 'jewish religion' really doesn't espouse a nation state. It was more like a dream.... It is a state of 'Being', not a piece of real estate.
COMMENT:
Actually the Jewish religion most certainly does espouse exactly that. The Torah is the basis for the Jewish religion and it clearly espouses the establishment of a nation state in several places. And the nation described was most certainly a piece of real estate described as lying between the Nile river in Egypt and the Euphrates river in Mesopotamia (Iraq).
The Zionist terrorists from Europe who engineered the take-over of Palestine certainly didn't regard regard the Torah as a mere dream: the reason they went there was to create a nation state out of land belonging to others. That is, they went their to steal a big piece of real estate.
Persecution would certainly make me dream of a safe place "to live in harmony and be free." However, having been innocent victims of brutality in Christian nations doesn't justify brutalizing other innocent people, taking their safe place, creating disharmony and denying others freedom.
readytotransform wrote: In fact, most jewish people don't quote scripture and verse. Very non-jewish....
COMMENT:
Perhaps they should, then at least they could use the religious excuse for their crimes against innocent people as some of the orthodox Jews have who have influenced the government of Israel. Without even the religious excuse, the invasion and subsequent ethnic cleansing of Palestine is simple raw naked, mass murder, theft, and conquest.
I never said it *did* translate into brutalizing people, did i?
I have been to protests, have you? I write letters and call and take actions, do you?
However, your hateful diatribes make me feel you are no different than those you supposedly disdain. More hate ain't helpful, whoever you are. You haven't learned much about peacemaking, it seems to me.
readytotransform wrote:
I never said it *did* translate into brutalizing people, did i?
COMMENT:
This reply is under mine so I assume it is directed toward me. If so I don't understand it because I said nothing about something translating into something else as near as I can tell.
readytotransform wrote:
I have been to protests, have you? I write letters and call and take actions, do you?
COMMENT:
Hundreds.
For over a half century, starting in the fifties for blacks, against wars - I was there for the big protests in Washington against the Southeast Asian genocide by the US, against nukes, dragged my kids along to march against a nuclear power plant built near a earthquake fault, protested for farm workers in California standing alongside Cesar Chavez in an orchard in Santa Barbara CA, for affordable housing for mostly hardworking but poor Latinos, for swamplands, for forestland in West Virginia, slept out in the Sierra to save old growth Sequoia groves during Redwood Summer, against year around education (because among other reasons it impacts badly on the children of Mexican American farmworkers), with the Democratic Party, against certain Democrats, with the Green Party, even joined protests organized by the ISO, testified in various city councils and school board, worked for months on three separate committees during the organizing phase to protest the WTO in Seattle, and so many more, so many bus rides, so many sleep outs, so many miles walked, so many long meetings.
Been to protests have you? Good for you. I’ve been to a few myself.
However, it is quite discriminatory to judge opinions, let alone verifiable facts based on whether or not the person offering the opinions and presenting the facts matches your litmus test like the Republicans have done. Judge the message, not the messenger.
readytotransform wrote:
However, your hateful diatribes make me feel you are no different than those you supposedly disdain. More hate ain't helpful, whoever you are. You haven't learned much about peacemaking, it seems to me.
COMMENT:
My “hateful” diatribes rely on verifiable facts which are hateful to those that hate the facts. My idea of peacemaking does not include compromising with "the strong band of murderers and demons from hell [that] kill men, women, and children, and lay waste and pillage the land of the just,” as Israel is doing in Palestine.
Ooooh, is that “hateful”? Notice the quotes. Suck it up and learn.
The quote is a diatribe as strong as any of mine and surely must qualify as hateful as any of mine, and I suppose the fellow that said that hadn't "learned much about peacemaking" any more than I. He wasn't condemning the actions of Israel although he would, he was condemning the actions of the United States. I presume that the jingoists would say he hated America.
I say Israelis attacking Palestine are murderers and demons, the man I quoted was saying the Americans were murderers and demons. That makes us both hateful men who have learned nothing about peacemaking I suppose, if you think my diatribe is hateful.
Oh, now that you've read mine, you can find the quoted line in the Congressional Record. It was made by Abraham Lincoln in a speech before the House of Representatives regarding President Polk's war of conquest against Mexico. Could just as easily be made by me about Israel's war of conquest against the people of Palestine.
You would have the Palestinians make peace with the murdering, thieving Zionists? I would stand with the man who said: It is better to die on your feet that to live on your knees. The man who said that fought against oppressors that weren't even the child killers the Zionists are. He was Emiliano Zapata Salazar.
Lincoln and Zapata didn't speak of "peacemaking." "Peacemaking is the word of compromise.
Sioux Rose
READY: Good post, and by the way, I loved your reference to the light/shadow... it's actually the metaphor of an eclipse!
Sioux Rose
READY: And so we meet again (virtually). I am aghast at Israel's behavior. I hold Jews to a higher standard inasmuch as the vast suffering endured by this people SHOULD HAVE MEANT they would not be its instrument of same upon others. Children raised in homes where they have been subjected to abuse generally take one of two paths as adults. They either emulate the vicious behavior they've unconsciously assimilated by becoming terrorizers themselves, OR they choose the path of compassion, and like a great many nurses, dedicate themselves to alleviating the suffering of others. I'm sure there are many in Israel who prefer the 2nd option, but as is the case in Israel and America, the warriors have seized leadership, and their whole calculus feeds off the war = terrorism = fear, leading to the false conclusion that we thus need more weapons to protect ourselves, and "those brave enough to use them" as our leaders. Like you, I recognize that genuine healing come first to and through the spirit, and then can permeate minds and belief systems which eventuate in far wiser, life-preserving (for all!) options.
Sioux, Well said!
There is sure a lot of pure hate flowed in many of these posts, and it really is unnerving, not to mention, part of the problem. Emotional violence is violence...
Sioux Rose
READY: Having felt like the target of one poster's hate I did some thinking on this issue, and I think a certain number of people in this forum are more programmed by sports than they realize. They are locked into an earthbound paradigm that has to view the world through a prism of good guys and bad guys, winners and losers, who's right and who's wrong. They get very anxious when I suggest that there is a higher framework for viewing these long-standing conflicts & debacles, a context that can relieve the tension of antipathy, the illusion of irreconcilable opposition. Some want the answers to come in such a way that they conform to the limited context of their own less than enlightened minds; and they would just as soon slay the messenger who brings a different kind of news, or perspective.
The Light beheld the darkness but understood it not... keep shining your candle, friend!
Thank you Sioux! I completely understand. Very well said...It sometimes feels like my soul is in quicksand.
Here's to you!
"If Isreal does succeed at destroying Hamas, what will replace them? " First off it's ISRAEL at least get the spelling right. As for what or whom will replace Hamas ..who cares. Personally, I'd like to see a herd of goats replace them.
Whatever, I don't care to spell the name of a fascist state correctly. Nor do I give a damn about their armchair apologists. I take it you've never heard of the idea 'better the devil you know than the one you don't.'
Hamas was founded by the Isreali's as a way of countering the PLO. If you thought the plo was bad, weren't you surprised that their replacements were worse? The only way a herd of goats could replace them is by killing all of the palistinians. Good to see you waving your swastika, arsehole.
Thank you for so clearly illustrating the racist contempt in which you and your ilk hold Arabs and Muslims.
It's OK for Israelis and their supporters to revile the Palestinians like animals, while any criticism of Israeli thuggery is automatically labeled "anti-Semitism".
Niccolo M. would be proud of you.
Tom Edgar
Sioux Rose..You are quite wrong "Father don't bother, they do know what they do and what is more they don't give a damn."
They learned from the holocaust and the whole Nazi period, taking on the mantle. Mass retaliation, theft of property, mass extermination of the untermensch.Gaza as a ghetto or a concentration camp. Above all a self righteous racial superiority endowed upon them my their imaginary God. Israel, Israel, uber alles.
Sioux Rose
TOM: I clearly do not advocate for what Israel's right wing leaders are doing to the Palestinian people, the outrage is so vast that my point was akin to Jesus' appeal to the heavens. Where does the cycle of vengeance end? If the Vietnamese could make peace with the Americans after how many million died or were made ill by exposure to Agent Orange; if Japan and Germany are now two of our foremost allies, then eventually wounds heal. This is NOT a license to murder on the presumption that time solves all and heals all wounds. It is to point out that sooner or later nations and persons MUST put down their arms and learn to get along. The several disastrous zones of combat now in bloody display are the teaching of this fundamental lesson, Karma 101.
I have so much respect for Kathy Kelly's long time peace work that I'll lightly censure the "tunnel vision" "cure this dangerously impaired vision", using disability terminology for negative behavior. In huge frustration, there's grabbing for poetic words. And it's about those tunnels, which are really needed.
Kelly's creds are huge. So are Bill Quigley's. They have put themselves in dangerous places, many times. So, it's up to us, the regular folks........back here, to do what we can, as can. We are many. Persistence.
Ok, lefties try this bit of sour ball history on. The Arab nations of Jordan and Egypt both had Gaza and the west bank under their control from 1948 till 1967. They never once even proposed creating a Palestinian homeland for the people in these areas. Israel on the other hand has been trying to negotiate with various Pal groups now for almost 20 yrs. to create just such a state in these areas. It's been rewarded with massive terror attacks by human bombs, missile attacks from Iraq, Lebanon and now Gaza. But, of course all of this is Israel's fault , right? I mean how dare these JEWS not just die or leave all of the land not just these two areas! How dare they fight back. Oh and of course most of us who weren't even alive back then have now decided that those JEWS back then had no right to to any of the land in the first place. Forget about the UN and all that came before that. ( We don't know any history anyway , so don't bore us with it now!) No, were good people and we know the JEWS are evil and Nazi like. Of course we have no idea that calling JEWS nazis is like calling black people KKK members, because were really a bunch of rude jerks that sit comfortably behind a keyboard somewhere and ramble on about an issue we only care to see from the pt. of view of Hamas ( an Int'l terrorist group). All this is why your not taken seriously by anyone who actually cares about, or knows about the situation in this complicated multi-dimensional struggle.
" Hamas ( an Int'l terrorist group)." - an "Int'l terrorist group" in large part founded by Arial Sharon and other political opportunists in the fashion of the US empowering Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden...so where does this get us, squabbling over the horror of Gaza and the Israelis cowering in their bomb shelters like it's a video game gone bad? Sounds like you're offended by the situation...and I agree it's a complicated multi-dimentioanl struggle, but, any solutions other then cluster bombing and starvation and disease and belly aching at "lefties"?
The nation of isreal has only negotiated in bad faith. They have no real desire to establish peace with the arabs. Along with the usa's defense contractors they've used the arabs as a weapons testing range. The only time a real peace treaty was signed was when Carter was president, and the isreali's hated him. Now that the cold war is over, there is no excuse for continuing to use the area as a proving ground for the new fangled weapons that were built for the superpowers to fight each other.
Are you posting from the front lines from an Isreali unit of soldiers? Or are you yet another rightwing chickenhawk, rabidly espousing that others shed their blood for you to spew your own hate.
If Isreal acts like nazis (as in blockading an ethnic group and witholding food, fuel and medicine) then don't be surprised that people refer to them as nazis. You don't have to build death camps to be a bunch of murderous thieving fascists, Franco never built them.
& what are u a left wing chickenhawk? All u can do is blame one side for this mess. Israel is a fact and unless u lefties and your buddies the fascistic religious fanatics in Hamas can kill all of us, get over it. Hamas doesn't want any peace , talk about bad faith! In WAR you kill your enemy that's a hard concept for u peace puppies to swallow I know but believe me Hamas gets it. If things were the other way around they'd be 1000X's more merciless then the IDF. As things go Hamas is damn lucky it has Israel as it's foe.
Wars are a state of being that must have an end, fool. Unless you're one of the fascists who believe in the eternal glory of everlasting conflict between peoples.
Did you miss the fact that we made peace with Germany and Japan? We didn't do that by trying to kill them all, nor by imposing harsh peace treaties that guaranteed another war, tho we learned that lesson the hard way.
Hamas wants to establish a peace, Isreal has been planning for war, war and more war. Why would I bother to support the bombing of a people that does not, never has, nor ever shall have the ability to erradicate Isreal? It wasn't Hamas that broke the ceasefire, that was Isreal.
But bluto, you haven't answered my question. I am an ex-serviceman, are you in the army? You claim you're fearing for your life, I take it you're in Isreal. If you're not in the army, how did you escape that country's draft?
SATURNALIA:
Are you posting from the front lines from an Isreali unit of soldiers? Or are you yet another rightwing chickenhawk, rabidly espousing that others shed their blood for you to spew your own hate.
But bluto, you haven't answered my question. I am an ex-serviceman, are you in the army? You claim you're fearing for your life, I take it you're in Isreal. If you're not in the army, how did you escape that country's draft?
COMMENT
Saturnalia, I do not believe that one has to be a soldier or veteran to have a legitimate view on international affairs. If that is so, we should at least allow only ex-servicemen to vote for president, as he is the face of our nation on the international stage. It's arguable they should be the sole voters in any national office, as only they will be able to have a legitimate opinion on the actions their legislators should take regarding the international stage I don't believe that and I doubt you do either. So don't tell others that if they weren't in the army, their opinion on international affairs is irrelevant.
STURNALIA:
In that article Parry noted that Israel is "a nation that was born out of Zionist terrorism." The terrorism continues to this day and the victims fight back. So would I.
COMMENT:
Both sides could make a long list of how they have been wronged by the other in the past century. Some items on those lists would actually be true.
But you seem to imply that Israel has no right to exist. If I remember correctly, the United Nations itself approved of a partition plan for the land now referred to as Israel (call it Palestine, Israel, the Land in Question, whatever pleases you)in 1947, to which the Jewish community agreed and which the Arab community rejected. Further, the State of Israel is recognized by the United Nations. I think that settles under law the legitimacy of the state of Israel, though not its proper borders. I haven't room or time for that tonight.
SATURNALIA:
You either don't know the history of Caanan/Palestine yourself, or you think the readers here do not.
....
Hamas wants to establish a peace, Isreal has been planning for war, war and more war.
COMMENT:
Here I am afraid it is you who are unaware of some unpleasant facts. Hamas's charter calls for the destruction of Israel. I offer this selection from Article 7 of the Hamas Charter:
'...the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).'
Hamas has offered temporary cease-fires, but repeatedly states it will not accept the existence of Israel.
Israel has signed accords with Egypt, Jordan, and the Palestinian Authority. It attempted in 1999 to conclude a treaty with the PA for the creation of a Palestinian state. We can argue over the fairness of its proposals, but to claim that Israel desires war when it offers the Palestinians a state , while Hamas desires peace while stating outright that it wishes to destroy the state of Israel, is to use an Orwellian definition of "peace" and "war".
[Saturnalia, I do not believe that one has to be a soldier or veteran to have a legitimate view on international affairs.]
No, but if one is advocating war I'd prefer it to be someone who knows what he's talking about.
[But you seem to imply that Israel has no right to exist. ]
Sure, as long as it's going to respect the right of others to exist. Just like any other decent state. Note; that applies to palistine too. But it was Isreal that has been planning this war, the palistinians have no real army, no major stocks of weapons, no international backer that makes advanced weapons systems. They're the underdog, the existance of Israel is not in question. However, it's sanity is. This is a war of choice, on the part of the Isreali gov't. They're killing people for political reasons. Vote for us, we'll kill more arabs (untermenchen) than the other guy. What an inspiring political slogan for the right wing. I think some german guy used to argue the same in the 1920s and 30s, but I suppose the Right Wing Partys of Israel don't really remmember him....
{claim that Hamas want's to eradicate Isreal.]
For every quote from the Qu'ran about god fighting and killing the Jews, or other infidels, you can find the same sort of shit in the Bible and the Torah. What of it? The ravings of a delusional goat herder who's whacked out on whatever religious bread they're using to justify killing the other. Israel is not better, not more moral, not superiour to the Palistinians, but they are better armed. They have better suppliers for their weapons. In the case of this fortnight's war, it was the Israeli's who fired first (and broke a ceasefire). As far as negotiations have gone, I see no real effort by Isreal to make peace. You can't make peace with the palistians when you're still sending settlers onto their land. You can't make peace when you're building an aparthide state.
Tell me, they've been fighting there in the middle east for the last 60 years (or 6 thousand if you want to look at the archeological record). The Israeli's bomb the Palistinains, the Palistinians bomb the Isreali's, ad nauseum. It's not going to be one side or the other who finally makes peace, it will take both sides.
blutodog wrote:
But, of course all of this is Israel's fault , right?
COMMENT:
Yes it is.
Some of us do know the history, know that Europeans went to a Middle Eastern land that they hadn't lived in, terrorized the British who were in control, slaughtered thousands of Palestinians, forced many to flee in terror to nearby countries and the remainder they herded into reservations as they destroyed over 300 towns. The Palestinians whose land was taken, lost homes, businesses, farms, and those that survived lost all or most of their possessions.
And those whose country (country, not nation) was stolen, are supposed to forgive, forget, and stand back while the murdering thieves keep what they stole and take even more?
All Israel's fault? Hell, yes.
blutodog wrote:
The Arab nations of Jordan and Egypt both had Gaza and the west bank under their control from 1948 till 1967. They never once even proposed creating a Palestinian homeland for the people in these areas.
COMMENT:
And this excuses conquest and ethnic-cleansing of Palestine by the Zionists how?
The idea of carving out a "homeland" was an issue for the European Jews, not most of the people who lived on the land. Neither Jordan nor Egypt bulldozed down over 300 Palestinian towns, and drove people out of their homes, their businesses, off their farms, and took these for themselves: only the Zionists that came from Europe did this.
And Israel has been trying to get the poor Palestinians their own nation state you say? Gee, first the Zionists steal the biggest and best of Palestine, then talk about trying to get the Palestinians a government that they can call their own on the three unconnected reservations they crowded them into? How awfully nice of them. Or not.
I suspect most Palestinians would prefer still having their towns, homes, businesses, farms, and the lives of their relatives and neighbors that the Jewish invaders killed, and the lives they themselves once had living peacefully and unmolested, as citizens of any government be it Jordan, Egypt, or their own, than to lose everything to invaders.
blutodog wrote:
( We don't know any history anyway , so don't bore us with it now!)
COMMENT:
You either don't know the history of Caanan/Palestine yourself, or you think the readers here do not.
I invite you to read: How Hypocrisy on 'Terrorism' Kills, by Robert Parry on Common Dreams, December 31, 2008, as well as my comments there which will answer your question of "this is Israel's fault , right?"
In that article Parry noted that Israel is "a nation that was born out of Zionist terrorism." The terrorism continues to this day and the victims fight back. So would I.
And like I said in one of my comments there, I'll say to you here: Sorry if you have a problem with that nasty truth.
Paul Siemering
great job as usual Kathy- you really are the greatest, and i mean it.
O- ok i'll join you but man we gotta look for a huge database somewhere to get the word out
Sioux Rose
unfortunately in this case they absolutely do know what they do, and what they have been doing for too long to remember
Very Funny article Kathy!!!!!! Where do you come up with this stuff?
I'm still laughing!!!! "U.S. foreign policy makers can begin a cure for this
dangerously impaired vision by recognizing the basis human rights of all
Palestinian people." Classic stuff!!! Rest assured Ms.Clinton is going
to recognize their human rights immediately after she "Obliterates" them.....
Keep the jokes coming Kathy.... The world needs laughter!!!!
I'll join you in critiquing Kathy Kelly, but with just a slight modification. I would change "recognize their human rights" to "recognize their basic human condition". I saw Kelly in person when she toured the Detroit area in witness to the use of DU bombs and bullets in Iraq, with their immediate effect as well as the ensuing birth defects - it's a searing witness. So, I wouldn't clamor for "rights" as I feel rights will grow from a clear recognition of the "strangest of fruits" of our current collective economic behavior - bombed and deformed children with the ante of foreclosures and job losses - would it be that Kathy Kelly's witness will be carried on by more people finding the strength to keep their hearts open while articulating such atrocity.
If I may: A Verifiable Modern Day Parable
Once, not to long ago there was an New England island community that prospered solely by slaughtering Whales. Their ships brought home stone ballast from all over the world. The stone ballast carried mold from all over the world. Currently residents of this community suffer from mold from all over the world. ---------------------Thanks ----------------- Peace
Hamas has used the cease fire NOT to build a democratic society..... to build a nation of Palestine, but instead to arm and prepare for a continuation of their struggle with the avowed goal of wiping Israel off the face of the earth. The blockade of Gaza was and has always been a response to this steady build up within that territory. They have as they always have.... placed their military "targets" carefully NOT to protect their people, but to maximize civilian casualties to they can use their own people as pawns in a play to paint Israel as barbaric. They have woven networks of "defensive" tunnels and boobytraps throughout urban Gaza for just this purpose which clearly demonstrates that their intent is ANYTHING BUT PEACE. They have no intention or desire for peace except in so far as it provides a respite to re-arm for more fighting. The blame for the innocent deaths lies entirely with HAMAS..... None of this needed to happen. They have destroyed the peace process again and again and continued to goad Israel into this sort of action. All this condemnation of Israel for taking the action that any civilized nation MUST take when it's people are under a constant threat from a neighbor is absurd. What may I ask is Israel supposed to do....... perhaps dissolve itself as a nation, and the people simply wade into the Mediterranean and drown themselves? Disperse throughout the world? Or simply sit by and allow constant attacks by suicide bombers, and rocket attacks, and hijackings of airliners, and murders and rapes, and killing of it's Olympic athletes, and countless other outrages to continue? If there is to be peace, and if the people of Gaza and the west bank are to be spared this sort of thing, then these people MUST constitute a government that is dedicated to peaceful coexistence. Hamas is and always has been a terrorist group dedicated to killing Israeli people by any and all means, and wiping the nation from the face of the earth. How is peaceful co-existence with such a group possible? and How is peaceful co-existence with a people who elected such a group to power possible? They have made their bed and find it uncomfortable indeed. The screams of the innocent should prey on their conscience.......as they do on the rest of the world. Remember that there has never been "collateral damage" from any Hamas action. They hit the target and ONLY the the target.... because everybody and everything IS the target!!!
There is no more contemptible group of people than those who not only target ONLY the innocent, but place their own women and children in the line of fire for political gain!!
Howard