Neoconservatism Dies in Gaza
The Gaza War of 2009 is a final and eloquent testimony to the complete failure of the neoconservative movement in United States foreign policy. For over a decade, the leading figures in this school of thought saw the violent overthrow of Saddam Hussein and the institution of a parliamentary regime in Iraq as the magic solution to all the problems in the Middle East. They envisioned, in the wake of the fall of Baghdad, the moderation of Hezbollah in Lebanon, the overthrow of the Baath Party in Syria and the Khomeinist regime in Iran, the deepening of the alliance with Turkey, the marginalization of Saudi Arabia, a new era of cheap petroleum, and a final resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict on terms favorable to Israel. After eight years in which they strode the globe like colossi, they have left behind a devastated moonscape reminiscent of some post-apocalyptic B movie. As their chief enabler prepares to exit the White House, the only nation they have strengthened is Iran; the only alliance they have deepened is that between Iran and two militant Islamist entities to Israel's north and south, Hezbollah and Hamas.
The neoconservatives first laid out their manifesto in a 1996 paper, "A Clean Break," written for an obscure think tank in Jerusalem and intended for the eyes of far right-wing Israeli politician Binyamin Netanyahu of the Likud Party, who had just been elected prime minister. They advised Israel to renounce the Oslo peace process and reject the principle of trading land for peace, instead dealing with the Palestinians with an iron fist. They urged Israel to uphold the right of hot pursuit of Palestinian guerrillas and to find alternatives to Yasser Arafat's Fatah for the Palestinian leadership. They called forth Israeli airstrikes on targets in Syria and rejection of negotiations with Damascus. They foresaw strengthened ties between Israel and its two regional friends, Turkey and Jordan.
They advocated "removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq," in part as a way of "rolling back" Syria. In place of the secular, republican tyrant, they fantasized about the restoration of the Hashemite monarchy in Iraq, and thought that a Sunni king might help moderate the Shiite Hezbollah in south Lebanon. (Yes.) They barely mentioned Iran, though it appears that their program of expelling Syria from Lebanon and weakening its regime was in part aimed at depriving Iran of its main Arab ally. In a 1999 book called "Tyranny's Ally: America's Failure to Defeat Saddam Hussein," David Wurmser argued that it was false to fear that installing the Iraqi Shiites in power in Baghdad would strengthen Iran regionally.
The signatories to this fantasy of using brute military power to reshape all of West Asia included some figures who would go on to fill key positions in the Bush administration. Richard Perle, a former assistant secretary of defense under Reagan, became chairman of the influential Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee, a civilian oversight body for the Pentagon. Douglas J. Feith became the undersecretary of defense for planning. David Wurmser first served in Feith's propaganda shop, the Office of Special Plans, which manufactured the case for an American war on Iraq, and then went on to serve with "Scooter" Libby in the office of Vice President Dick Cheney.
The neoconservatives used their well-funded think tanks, including the American Enterprise Institute, the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP, an organ of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee), the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, and the Hudson Institute, among others, to promote this agenda of the conquest of Iraq as a solution of all ills.
They had cheerleaders and allies in major newspapers and political journals. Martin Peretz, owner of the New Republic, took up the neoconservative mantra on Sept. 5, 2002, writing that "The road to Jerusalem more likely leads through Baghdad than the reverse. Once the Palestinians see that the United States will no longer tolerate their hero Saddam Hussein, depressed though they may be, they may also come finally to grasp that Israel is here to stay and that accommodating to this reality is the one thing that can bring them the generous peace they require." (Peretz is a perennial embarrassment to his stable of often excellent journalists in that he occasionally hijacks the magazine for such pronouncements.)
Charles Krauthammer wrote in the Washington Post on Feb. 1, 2002, that "Iran is a deadly threat," insofar as it was trying "to establish a terrorist client state by arming and infiltrating Yasser Arafat's Palestine." How would he have us roll it back? "Overthrowing neighboring radical regimes shows the fragility of dictatorship, challenges the mullahs' mandate from heaven and thus encourages disaffected Iranians to rise." What did he mean by neighboring regimes? "First, Afghanistan to the east. Next, Iraq to the west." Leading neoconservative columnist William Kristol delivered himself of a daisy chain of false predictions, inaccurate pronouncements, and political wet dreams about Iraq and the Middle East, as David Corn of the Nation itemizes here. "Look, if we free the people of Iraq we will be respected in the Arab world," Kristol said in 2002.
The brutal Israeli war on the population of Gaza is the nail in the coffin of the neoconservative doctrine. Their policies have hardly strengthened ties between Turkey, Israel and the United States, as they had argued. Turkey had a special place in the thinking of figures such as Perle, who lauded it as a secular example for the Muslim world and a close ally of Israel. But in 2002 the Islamically tinged conservative Justice and Development Party (Turkish acronym AKP) of Recep Tayyip Erdogan swept to power and has ruled Turkey ever since. In 2003, the AKP dealt a cruel blow to the hopes of Perle and his colleague Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz when its members of parliament voted against allowing the U.S. military to invade Iraq through Turkish territory. Erdogan more recently has been a profound disappointment to the Israeli right because of his willingness to talk with Hamas leaders. Hundreds of thousands of Turks, many of them AKP supporters, have demonstrated in Istanbul against the Israeli bombardment of Gaza.
Erdogan drew anguished Israeli protests when he told an election rally in Ankara that Israel was "perpetrating inhuman actions which would bring it to self-destruction. Allah will sooner or later punish those who transgress the rights of innocents." Turkey has received Hamas leader Khalid Mashal and has worked for an early cease-fire in the current conflict, putting the blame for it on Israel. The right-wing Jerusalem Post observed ominously, "Turkey has just taken its seat as a non-permanent member of the Security Council and Ankara pledges to be Hamas's conduit to the United Nations," and urged Israel to recall its ambassador from Ankara.
Massive demonstrations and protests in Jordan calling for the expulsion of the Israeli ambassador over the Israeli military's disregard for civilian life have caused Prime Minister Nader Dahabi to tell the parliament, "Jordan will look into all options, including reconsidering relations with Israel." So much for Feith, Perle and Wurmser's plan to solidify ties between Israel, Turkey and Jordan.
But at least the new Iraqi government will support Israel rather than Hamas now that Saddam Hussein is gone, right? Think again. The Islamic Da'wa Party of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki called last week for all Muslim countries to cut off diplomatic relations with Israel and to cease all public and behind-the scenes contacts with it. Large demonstrations have been staged against Israel in Mosul, Baghdad and the holy city of Karbala. The spiritual leader of many of the world's Shiites condemned Israeli aggression in Gaza and said that "mere verbal expressions of condemnation and disapproval" were not enough, calling instead for "practical steps" to break the Israeli blockade and stop the attack. For a fatwa of the chief Shiite authority in Iraq to demand practical steps against Israel is a little noticed but ominous development for the Israelis that could help politicize Shiites even further on this issue.
Wurmser's conviction that Iranian Shiite influence would not spread if the Sunni bulwark were demolished in Mesopotamia has proved as wrongheaded as all the other neoconservative predictions. The 2005 parliamentary elections were won by the most hard-line, pro-Tehran Shiite fundamentalist parties, who have ruled Iraq ever since. Iran has warm relations with the ruling Islamic Da'wa Party and the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, headed by Shiite cleric Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, whose party was founded by Ayatollah Khomeini in 1982.
Iran's influence with Hezbollah in south Lebanon has grown from strength to strength, and was enhanced after Israel's disastrous 2006 war on that country when it sent extensive reconstruction aid. Hezbollah has been able to rearm, and has joined a national unity government that recognizes its militia as a sort of national guard for the south of Lebanon. It gained new allies in Iraq. It had been formed in part by the Islamic Da'wa Party of Iraq, which naturally supports it, as does the large and influential Sadr Movement in Iraqi Shiism. Hezbollah, more popular than ever, was able to get out massive crowds in Beirut to protest Israel's assault on Gaza. And Gaza itself is now viewed by the Israeli establishment as an Iranian beachhead on the Mediterranean, the sort of development that the neoconservatives confidently predicted their policies would forestall.
Krauthammer's conviction that the overthrow of the Taliban in Afghanistan and of Saddam Hussein in Iraq would weaken the Iranian regime was wrong because it exalted ideology over power politics. Baathist Iraq and Sunni fundamentalist Afghanistan had walled Iran in. Destroying them no more weakened Iran than blowing up the Hoover Dam would tame the Colorado River. From an Iranian point of view, an elected Shiite parliament in Iraq morally guided by Ayatollah Sistani does not represent a significant departure from their own form of government, except that Iran is blessed with much greater stability, security and prosperity than its Mesopotamian sibling. Likewise, Syria's regime has been undisturbed by the changes in Iraq, and, recognizing at last that it would have to deal with Bashar al-Asad, the government of outgoing Prime Minister Ehud Olmert had initiated indirect negotiations with Damascus rather than, as the neoconservatives had insisted, bombarding it.
The neoconservatives made almost as big an error in working to destroy the peace process of the 1990s as they did in fostering a war on Iraq. A two-state solution was not far from being concluded in 2000, but negotiations were abruptly discontinued by the government of Ariel Sharon in spring of 2001 with the encouragement of the Bush administration. (It is not true that the Palestinian side had ceased negotiating, or "walked away," from the Clinton plan, nor is it true that the Israelis had as yet formalized a specific offer in writing.) In the past eight years, Israel has greatly expanded its settlements in the West Bank and around Jerusalem, fencing the Palestinians in with checkpoints, superhighways that cut villages off from one another, and a wall that has stolen from them key agricultural land. Ariel Sharon's 2005 withdrawal from Gaza made no provisions for what would happen next, and in any case Israel continued to control Gaza's borders and denied it a harbor, an airport and, more recently, enough food to eat.
As a result of the deliberate destruction of the peace process by the Israeli right and by Hamas, a two-state solution seems increasingly unlikely. This tragic impasse, one phase of which is now playing out with sanguinary relentlessness, was avoidable but for the baneful influence of the neoconservatives and their right-wing allies in the U.S. and Israel.
The neoconservatives had prided themselves on their macho swagger, their rejection of namby-pamby Clintonian multilateralism, and on their bold vision for reshaping the Middle East so that the Israeli and American right would not have to deal with existing reality. In the cold light of day, they look merely petulant and arrogant. The ancient Greek poet Bion said that boys cast stones at frogs in sport, but the frogs die in earnest. The neoconservatives were the boys, and the people of Iraq, Israel, Palestine and Lebanon have been their frogs. The biggest danger facing the United States is that there will be no true "Clean Break" -- that the neoconservatives will somehow find a way to survive the Bush administration, and continue to influence American foreign policy.
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46 Comments so far
Show AllProfessor Cole, I think you're missing the point. It just doesn't matter how wrong the neocons are! Their policies will continue regardless of that. Obama will keep tens of thousands of troops in Iraq for years to come. Both of the major political parties are not avidly pro-Israel or even stridently pro-Israel. They are BLINDLY pro-Israel. There is more criticism of Israeli foreign policy in Israel than there is in the United States.
He forgot to mention that while the Neocons are being defeated, they are also responsible for the deaths of over 1.4 million Iraqis (and who knows how many Palestinians and Lebanese). They must be held accountable for their war crimes. The anti-war movement must demand that the Neocons be sent to The Hague or whichever court will bring those fascists to justice.
I agree.
Bush misled Congress.
The Neocons got us into Iraq. They deserve the blame for it. The best thing to do with them is to take away the spotlight. No more fame. No more grandstanding. Just lonely, pathetic isolation. Let them burn in the glare of public hatred and humiliation. Let them spend their remaining days trying to live with their guilt. I hope it eats them alive. Let them rot into old age like Nixon. Their day is done.
Bush lied and people died.
In terms of Iraq policy, neoconservativism is dead.
With Obama we have turned a corner...
This is a new day.
Yep one unaccountable rich man who was sponsered by corporations has been replaced by another unaccountable rich man who was sponsered by corporations, but wait he's "black" (whatever that means) so its different.
A new day has dawned.
With Obama, we have turned a corner, all right. Right off the cliff, with Rahm and Hillary and Gupta and the pied piper of false change leading the way. Joe Hope, you are a liar and a cheat. And a con (in both the English and French senses of the term.) You don't believe a word of your assertions against Bush. You were in favor of the war in Iraq, in favor of Guantanamo, in favor of torture, in favor of bringing death and destruction to civilians so long as they were Arabs. The logic of the Gaza butchery is the same as the logic of all of the above. Please shut up and leave this website alone. People like you, Mr Hope, are the cause of the despair of the majority of the dwellers of this planet. The Neocon mindset still calls the shots in the foreign policy of the United States, and you are happy about that. The least you could do, Mr Despair, is be honest about it.
"You don't believe a word of your assertions against Bush. You were in favor of the war in Iraq, in favor of Guantanamo, in favor of torture, in favor of bringing death and destruction to civilians so long as they were Arabs."
All lies. You have it backwards. Should sink to your level and I start accusing you of being a member of the Aryan nation?
"The Neocon mindset still calls the shots in the foreign policy of the United States, and you are happy about that. "
I'm a Republican?!?
Are you insane? I come from a long line of Democrats.
I challenge you to name a single policy difference between my views and Obama's or Pelosi's views.
If I'm a "neocon" then it should be no trouble.
Neoconservatism has been, to any rational mind, discredited for a long time. It is not dead, however, not by a long shot. Other than wanting to gradually disengage from Iraq, what do the Obama administration and Democrats in Congress propose that differs in any significant way from the disastrous philosophy, appalling misjudgment, willful ignorance of history and arrogant bellicosity of this regressive movement?
Alex
Unlike previous enemies, al-Queda and Neo-CONscurvyism are ideological and can no more be killed than Devil-Worshiping. However unlike al-Queda which probably enjoys the enthusiastic support of a Billion people (thanks to stuff like the Iraq war courtesy of the Neopeople) the NC's enjoy little support, because their agenda actually benefits few, (Undertakers come to mind.) Let us confer upon them the Death's Head as their official logo for their mugs, t-shirts and tie-pins.
I don't see anyone benefitting from Al Queda either. Certainly not in the Middle East, Afghanistan, or even Pakistan.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Why is the war in Gaza "neoconservative"?
I support Obama.
I am a proud progressive-Democrat.
Obama and (almost) all of the Democrats in Congress support Israel and support her right to defend herself. That is one of the main reasons I voted for Obama.
To my knowledge there has never been a single use of military forces by Israel in the past 50 (or longer) that was opposed by a majority of Democrats.
Even vile, antisemitic, republicans agree that Israel has a right to defend herself. It's one area where bipartisanship is actually working.
Cole wrote, "They advocated "removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq,"
But so did nearly every Democrat! Including Clinton and Gore! Both sides agreed.
Heck, Prof. Cole, even you agreed that the war would be "worth the sacrifices made on all sides"!
Let's look at this pragmatically. From the standpoint of supporting Israel and her right to exist as a nation. Does Israel bombarding civilians seeking refuge in UN buildings really help Israel defend herself and her citizens? Is it really in Israel's interests to do so?
They both agreed equals both parties are complicit in war crimes leading to a million deaths on behalf of oil and Israel, not that the policy was good. This "moderate" koolaid drinking has to end, many parties agreed in Germany agreed to Hitlers crimes in the end that doesn't make what Hitler did right. Bland consensus in this case hides the painful death of a million people 1/6th the number of the Holocaust and thus arguably genocide in Iraq. Maybe you didn't get the memo JoeHope but polls have indicated for YEARS now that a majority of Americans think the war in Iraq was a mistake, but neither of the corporate sock puppet parties gives a damn what the American people think as long as the corporate, Wall St., and AIPAC donations roll in, that is the plain truth.
Dimocrap equals atrocious foreign policy with slightly happier face domestically, GOP equals grouchy old phonies.
Israel would be doing fine if she wouldn't go too far and then invent excuses such as "I'm doing this because I have a right to defend myself." Not all countries have anything close to this privilege. If India or Afghanistan were to bomb Pakistan, the US and Europe would severely punish that nation for back its "darling" Pakistan even if India and/or Afghanistan were trying to hold terrorist harbouring Pakistan accountable. What would you say sir?
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
With regard to Pakistan and India, I think that the world would be more concerned if Hamas had nukes. Russia, on the other hand, is allowed defend themselves from Chechnya. Georgia is allowed to defend themselves from S. Ossetia. Turkey is allowed to defend themselves from the PKK. Spain is allowed to defend themselves from the Basques. Sri Lanka is allowed to defend itself from the Tamil Tigers. The UK is allowed to defend itself from Sinn Fein.
Every country has a right to defend itself from terrorism.
The only difference it that some people hate Israel so much they want to see it destroyed. So a double standard is applied.
Why apply the label "neoconservative" to people who support Israel?
Support for Israel is bipartisan.
TMinSD wrote, "Israel would be doing fine if she wouldn't go too far and then invent excuses such as "I'm doing this because I have a right to defend myself.""
Then why do you think they are in Gaza? Just to kill people? Is that actually what you are saying? That there is no reason for being in Gaza other than bloodlust?
They are defending Israel from eight years of constant rocket attacks. There is no other logical reason for Israel to be taking this risk by entering Gaza. Why would Israeli troops want to risk their lives for nothing? What you are implying makes no sense.
"Then why do you think they are in Gaza? Just to kill people? Is that actually what you are saying? That there is no reason for being in Gaza other than bloodlust?"
Yes. Using very accurate technology to kill innocent Palestinians especially women and children who had nothing to do with the terrorists is not "defending oneself" but an act of sheer lunacy.
"They are defending Israel from eight years of constant rocket attacks."
They didn't attack with rockets for 8 years. Get your facts straight sir.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
So Terry, you actually admit that you think that Israel invaded Gaza because the Jewish/Zionist people suffer from "bloodlust" and "sheer lunacy". To you, it has nothing to do with living through 60 years of terrorism.
Once again, I'm appalled by the comments in this forum.
Are the Israeli people less-than-human to you? Are they monsters in your eyes? I had hoped that your kind of virulent antisemitism was actually on the decline. But you have proven me to be sadly mistaken. If there is anyone who is lacking in basic humanity, it is people who share your racist perceptions of the Israeli people. And don't bother back-peddling and saying you're only talking about Zionism, because everyone knows exactly what you mean.
We have had to live through a single terrorist attack. Imagine living in fear for 60 years. Never knowing if the bus you travel to work on will be bombed, or if your child will die in a homicide-bombing at some disco or pizzeria. Never knowing if today will be the day when the Iran or the Arab States make good on their promises to wipe Israel off the map.
How would most Americans feel if Canada and Mexico were conspiring everyday to destroy America, while lobbing rockets into our densely populated cities? Do you really think we wouldn't respond? Do you think the American public wouldn't demand a response?
If we did respond with force, how could you call it "bloodlust"? Every country has a right to self defense under the UN charter.
I support Obama because his campaign was a campaign against racism. People like you drag down our whole culture by promoting hatred of one group against another. We need to show the world that the era of White supremacy has come to an end. We can't accomplish that by promoting racist hatred towards the Jewish homeland.
TMinSD wrote, ""They didn't attack with rockets for 8 years. Get your facts straight sir."
Sir, you are wrong, sir,
"In the past eight years, the militant rockets and mortars fired from Gaza that have become such a powerful issue for the Israeli government have killed 20 people inside Israel."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/30/israelandthepalestinians-middleeast
"The Intelligence & Terrorism Information Center reports on terrorist Palestinian rockets and mortar shells fired into Israeli cities for the past 8 years, including this chart showing the rapid increase in attacks since Hamas took power in Gaza."
http://current.com/items/89677916/eight_years_in_revew_palestinian_rocket_attacks.htm
God so much BS I don't know where to start.
Lets start on self defense, if you killed my son does that give me the right to kill your family and neighbors? In my country that would still considered murder and not self defense.
American has conspired in the destruction of Cuba, does that then give Cubans the right to kill American civilians? Not in my mind, that would be wrong as far as I am concerned.
By the follow statement I imagine you are an American "We have had to live through a single terrorist attack".
So may I suggest you leave the following statements to the people who have the experiences you commented on, if you really want to know what its like to live through what you describe, then go visit and talk to real people rather than just watching TV.
"Imagine living in fear for 60 years. Never knowing if the bus you travel to work on will be bombed, or if your child will die in a homicide-bombing at some disco or pizzeria. Never knowing if today will be the day when the Iran or the Arab States make good on their promises to wipe Israel off the map".
Now as a comparison to a genuine peace process I would look at the current agreements that the UK government has with the IRA, that seems to be working more effectively than bombing and starving the local civilian population, however such agreements are of no use when what you really want is land.
I agree. Last I checked, Obama's cabinet was teeming with Neocons "lite," except for Rahm Emanuel, who's more like a neocon on steroids, while waving a few false flags of domestic social pseudo liberalism to fool the gullible. But maybe we should drop the "neo" and call them all CONS, in both the English and French senses of the term.
Neoconservatism is alive and kicking very well I hate to say here in America and all over Israel. Dream on Mr. Cole !
Professor Cole, can I have some of what you're smoking please?
And it is not a "war." It is genocide.
I won't beleive in the death of neoconservatism, until I see the neocon's buried with a wooden stake in their chest.
Mr. Cole: In the second paragraph of your excellent post, you mention far-right Likud politician Binyamin Netanyahu, who had just been elected Prime Minister. Uhh...isn't he expected to be Prime Minister again, very soon? Doesn't Israel still have a cod lock on American foreign policy? And didn't Obama select the same old gang of Zionist suck-ups who aren't about "change"? Wish you were right; but, a grinning, slick-mouth neocon, and a scowling, thundering neocon are both...neocons.
Terrific post. Thanks.
Neoconservatism is dead! Long Live Neoneoconservatism, the New and Improved Neoconservatism, Neoconservatism With a Human Face, Neoconservatism enforced not by the dead man who tried to hustle the east, but by the new gang of well spoken PhD think tankers who secretly read Mickey Spillane, Ian Fleming and Doc Savage and have their copies of Guns and Ammo delivered to the anonymous p.o. boxes they rent.
According to neocons if one is against the free market, one is destined to fail. Their neo-Darwinist war machine is monopoly capitalism which is against a free market, so neocons are destined to fail.
Read closely - the conflict is still about nothing more than good, old-fashioned stealing of land and water. As to the method of theft:
Here is the closing statement of an op-ed in today's times by Rashid Khalil
"This war on the people of Gaza isn’t really about rockets. Nor is it about “restoring Israel’s deterrence,” as the Israeli press might have you believe. Far more revealing are the words of Moshe Yaalon, then the Israeli Defense Forces chief of staff, in 2002: “The Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated people.” "
Rashid Khalidi, a professor of Arab studies at Columbia, is the author of the forthcoming “Sowing Crisis: The Cold War and American Dominance in the Middle East."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/opinion/08khalidi.html?_r=1&ref=opinion
But I could be wrong !
I thought it was an occupation, not a war.
Usually a war is between two sides with somewhat equal power.
Then again if you remove the tanks and missiles the Israeli army is incredibly weak.
They can use children's schools as a bathroom(including the walls) and use palestinians as shields as they knock on doors, and bait children to throw stones(which apparently are so dangerous to frail israelis that they have to shoot back).
In fact, according to the BBc Israelis are mentally inferior to Palestinian arabs since they suffer from shock if a rocket falls 10 miles away, but apparently arabs are much tougher, rockets can kill their family and they never count for shock according to the BBC.
No. Sorry. War isn't "fair". War is NOT between two sides with somewhat equal power. That is a ridiculously idealistic view of war.
This is completely untrue. The IDF are arguably the best equipped, best trained, toughest and focused armies on the planet. Remember, they are fighting for what they think is their land, something America has not done since the Civil War. Do NOT underestimate the IDF. In equal-strength exercises with US forces, they make Americans look like old women.
The IDF's arm's-length tactics are based on a policy of zero-casualties, and to account for all dead. As is demonstrated at length in Iraq, this policy is actually seriously damaging to the ability to prosecute. In war, soldiers are always expendable, and until the US and Israel wake to this fact, they will never again leave a battlefield with honor.
I'm sorry if these words sound harsh, but war sucks, and this is just one of the reasons why we should always avoid military conflict.
Why are some of those Isreali conscripts refusing to serve as occupation forces in that part of the world? They've spent the last 50+ years trying to teach the 'sand niggers' a lesson by being more violent than the Palistinians have been. How's that worked out so far? Do you really believe that this war crime will make the Gazan's turn into drug addled hippies singing kumbaya? When all the other lessons of violence in human history show us that reacting to violence with more violence begets even greater violence, why do you think the IDF is able to avoid that end?
BTW, the Gaza strip is not their own soil. They stole it from the Palistinians, just like they stole the land on which Isreal now sits. Damn shame the allies didn't carve Isreal out of occupied Germany in '45, we'd have been spared most of this bushit today.
"BTW, the Gaza strip is not their own soil."
If you had actually READ my post, you will see that I stated "[The IDF] are fighting for what they think is their land...".
Sigh. Amateurs.
"Why are some of those Isreali conscripts refusing to serve as occupation forces in that part of the world?"
Did you read what I said???
Sigh, illiterates. (did I spell that wrong? grin)
Not all Isrealies who are being asked to kill for the rightwingers in parliament are buying the war rhetoric. And really, fighting for, or on, your own land doesn't make you a better or more effective fighter. It might make it easier for you to convince your population that fighting is the right thing to do, but it doesn't give that much of an edge to the people who are doing the actual fighting.
Herr Webber your Aryan hatred for Jews is once again showing. "In fact, according to the BBc Israelis are mentally inferior to Palestinian Arabs" Really can you prove this? I think not. If any group has shown toughness it's been the Jews. Having been all but decimated by your countrymen 60 yrs. ago they rose from the ashes within 5 yrs. ( literally) and defeated 5 Arab armies without planes or tanks and went on to build a modern state in a wasteland. A wasteland the Arabs had done nothing with for a thousand yrs. Now your calling them mentally inferior to whom? Excuse me Sir but your full of shit as usual.
Actually, the Zionist settlers, including those joining them after WW2 in Europe, had been stocking up on arms for years, smuggling them in in preparation for the showdown they knew was coming when the Mandate expired in 1948. It was the Palestinians who were unarmed and, while the surrounding Arab countries (themselves still under mandates from the League of Nations and therefore hardly in charge of their own countries, with very little knowledge of modern warfare) tried to defend them they were no match for the well-trained graduates of Irgun and its years of guerrilla warfare against the Palestinians and the "peacekeepers" of the British mandate as well as the new arrivals, many of whom had fought in the European resistance during WW2.
That and a few well-chosen massacres of unarmed villagers, photographed by Irgun and the ghastly pictures dropped on other villages "pour encourager les autres" was enough to ensure that the Zionists could claim a good chunk of Palestine.
Rainborowe
I always thought that the US and Europe were both responsible for the plight of the Palestinians.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
B L U T O D O G
The news did report several ( unsettled settlers ) Israelis suffering from shock, after Hamas rockets landed nearby. That is the facts reported in the BBC.
¿ Do you deny that reality ?
The humor, herein is that many of the 1.5 million Gazan Palestinians are too worried about actually dying, to have reported being in a state of shock.
The honest truth is that MOST Israelis have a much smaller likelihood ( ~ 1/1000 ) of ANY injury ( psychological or physical ) -- in this current terrorist aggression by Israel in Gaza -- than any Palestinians do.
Apparently, more Israelis are dying in this last week -- of friendly fire -- than by Palestinians, so perhaps the Israeli's shock is from looking into their mirrors ?
In all honesty, anyone not in shock having bombs dropping near them -- is likely already dead -- so the difference in Israelis vs. Palestinians is about the visible reporting of the condition of "shock".
Just because the BBC fails to mention that Palestinians are ALSO in SHOCK, does not prove that they are 'stronger willed' nor less susceptible to the horrors of war.
I would hope that you might admit feeling a trifle foolish now, after accusing "Herr Webber your Aryan hatred for Jews is once again showing" ( when he was just making a bit of fun about those terrified Israelis ), but then again -- HOPE SPRINGS ETERNALLY ( that you and others like you can possible see humanity in other humans ).
¿ Do you ever give anyone ( other than Jews ) any slack ?
Namaste
Ok, I think one could argue that neocon policies have lead to disaster after disaster in the ME. Nevertheless, all I hear from the left is an equally un reasonable position that only enhances the Arab resentment, hatred and belligerence toward any form of Israeli State no matter how it's constituted. I also continue to hear this fantasy belief that if Israel would just transform itself into some version of So. Africa the Pals would then live and let live. I think they forget this is the middle east were talking about. Maybe, they should take a closer look at the other intractable ethnic conflicts going on in this region. Darfur, Kurdistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, & Iraq and on and on u go none of which have a Jew or Israel involved but are every bit as violent and intractable in their own right as the situation in Israel/Palestine today. After the left does this analysis I think it will realize that projecting "our" humane values onto these tribal situations is laughable instead of laudable.
Darfur is in the same "region" as Pakistan? That's a broad definition of "region".
And of course, many also once said that racial reconciliation was impossible in South Africa. A fantasy.
You clearly have very little acquaintance with Palestine or Palestinians (or the Middle East in general for that matter)if you think there is any useful analogy with Darfur, Kurdistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq. Darfur is mostly a conflict over water and land use between nomadic pastoralists and agrarianists, exacerbated for political ends by the Sudanese government. Afghanistan is a place whose troubles have largely been visited on it by ambitions colonialists of various stripes going on for centuries. Pakistan was a misbegotten country carved out of India at Independence and suffered the greater disaster of being used by the USA as a repository for rockets aimed at the Soviet Union until the collapse of the S.U. left Pakistan prepared for nothing but the kind of nasty, successive dictatorships which were quite convenient in the Cold War. Iraq was actually a success story, not in its dictatorships but socially. Again, its main problem was too much interference by outsiders; surely you remember the US urging it on to make war on Iran and arming it to do so until a change of government here decided to obliterate it in order to "save" it for the neocons?
None of these situations cast a great deal of light on Palestine, although colonialism does tend to be a more-or-less constant.
Rainborowe
Speaking of Pakistan, I hear that the US easily supplies them plenty of WMDs although not quite as easy as they do to Israel. On India, for every "aid", there's always harsh strings attached such as religious concessions, restrictions, sanctions, etc ... Furthermore, it's given in bits and pieces while Israel and sometimes Pakistan get their aid in lumpsums and in the case of Israel with no strings attached or even the need to pay back. It's sad that Pakistan like Egypt and Saudi Arabia is another US/EU backed dictatorship and the West actually rewards them for being pro-terrorist. The militants control Pakistan yet you'll never hear folks such as blutodog, bligh4, goose4, etc ... discuss that issue. Pakistan has been a menace to India and most of all Afghanistan and yet the US and Europe gleefully look the other way and blame the Afghans and the Indians rather than the real culprits, the terrorist groups who happen to reside in Pakistan. I often wonder what the folks in Israel are thinking these days.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Grow up already. Your extremely 1 sided and rose colored galsses view of all these conflicts is so far from the reality it's pathetic. In your view these wars , civil wars , etc. are always someone else's fault never the parties involved. The ME is filled with tribes and groups that hate each other for reasons that have little or nada to do with colonialism or Israel. I find the left in particular has this Rousseauian view of this area that is laughable. These folks aren't any more noble then anyone else, but they do act like savages toward each other for the slightest of reasons. The examples would fill this whole site and I don't have enough time to even begin to list them. Israel is an easy target because it's not Arab nor is it Muslim two favorites of the left.
I am as left as they come and I know perfectly well that Rosseau's noble savage is a fantasy. Human nature is universal. Which means that if you were in the same situation as the people of Gaza, blutodog, you might just feel like firing some rockets at the SOBs who've slaughtered your children.
Hamas is not the problem; it is a symptom. Treating it as the problem only prolongs the crisis. The problem is political and historical: the dispossession of Palestinians and the ongoing Israeli occupation of their land. Until that fundamental problem is resolved -- and the hour when it can be resolved by a two-state solution may already have passed -- Israel and America's attempts to bludgeon Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims into submission will only generate more hatred, more violence and ever more extremism.
And the other conflicts in the ME, such as the Kurdish question, have EVERYTHING to do with colonialism and the way the British encouraged sectarian and tribal divisions. That plus drawing lines on the map that had nothing to do with the reality on the ground but which helped to carve up the ME into statelets and princedoms that the British imperialists could control. The American republic used to be hostile to imperialism as against everything the USA stood for, but having taken the British Empire into receivership after World War Two the Beltway upper class began to go wrong and was seduced into copying the same old corrupt, cynical and short sighted policies from the Brits.
Whether you are a principled libertarian of the Ron Paul stamp or a leftist it's time to say loud and clear that America must GET OUT of the Empire game and restore the Republic. Otherwise it will bankrupt itself and invite more 9/11s. As Chalmers Johnson says Nemesis is checking out the neighborhood.
Israel is a nuclear power with one of the strongest militaries in the world - they are quite capable of defending themselves. We should tell them that if they can't clean up their act they are on their own. If the AIPAC mob continue to bribe and bully Congress to put the interests of a foreign country above America's national security they should be denounced for the traitors they are.
Bravo sir! I very much would like to see a Libertarian Green "isolationist" coalition along the lines of the old early 1900s anti imperialist league"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Anti-Imperialist_League
Rainborowe lives in Israel. Do you? Apparently not. You're just sitting at your computer typing spoonfed zionist nonsense. It's pathetic that you're so one sided and yet accuse the other side of being one sided which they never are.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Pals huh? How would you like it if I use the word "kikes" to describe Jews you bigot?
Neoconservatism may be dead in Gaza, but I suspect it will be kept on life support by the incoming Obama administration. To support my suspicion I offer just two words: Dennis Ross. (Google him if you don't already know who he is and what role he has played in Obama's quest for power.)