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TechnoratiJust How Dumb Are White Males?
Let me now defend white males. We can't possibly be as dumb as the polls showing we are John McCain's most reliable voting base would indicate. Do we white men believe for an instant that a vote for McCain would not represent more of President Bush's failed economic policies at home and costly military adventures abroad? If we don't hold such a belief, why are a majority of us expected to vote against the positive change that Barack Obama so clearly represents?
Most of us know how to read, and can even Google, so why would we think that GOP candidate McCain, who has supported Bush on every one of his economic initiatives, is now the anti-Bush? What exactly did McCain mean when he said, referring to his Democratic opponent during a campaign speech in Ohio on Monday, "We both disagree with President Bush on economic policy"?
Is McCain unaware that he consistently voted for the red ink run up by the Bush administration, or was he having a senior moment when he said that same day, "We cannot spend the next four years as we spent much of the last eight: spending ourselves into a ditch, and hoping that the consequences don't come"?
The only time McCain took issue with Bush's economic policy was in his short-lived criticism of the tax cut for the rich—a strategy he now defends. But if McCain doesn't increase taxes for someone, just how does he plan to pay for the enormous Iraq war debt, now vastly compounded by the banking bailout? On Monday McCain gave his answer: "I will freeze government spending on all but the most important programs, like defense, veterans' care, Social Security and health care, until we scrub every single government program and get rid of the ones that aren't working for the American people."
Is he kidding? If he doesn't curtail those programs, which make up almost the entire federal budget, then he's talking about chump change in possible cuts. There just isn't enough money in those earmarks that McCain goes on about to make a dent in the massive national debt.
President Bush's treasury secretary, Henry Paulson, left our collective credit card on Wall Street, where the bankers are once again to be trusted to regulate themselves. Are there any white males out there still so in the dark that they don't know that the radical banking deregulation legislation that McCain pushed so aggressively is what legally enabled those he condemned on Monday as "the Wall Street bankers and brokers who got us into this mess"? Have they never heard of Phil Gramm, the man McCain picked to co-chair his presidential campaign, who sponsored the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act—both of which made legal, for the first time since the Great Depression, the credit swaps and hybrid instruments at the heart of the Wall Street scams?
Call me naive, but I think white males, startled by job cuts and the devastation wreaked upon their retirement savings, are finally getting the point: Someone's got to pay for this mess, and better those who got rich off the stock market theft than the rest of us.
Can you imagine the uproar now if the McCain-Bush plan to privatize Social Security by linking it to stock purchases had become law? And have you noticed that the Wall Street crooks are not using the bailout money to ease credit but rather to line their golden parachutes? They know how to take care of their retirement.
I don't think McCain gets that the rest of us could use a bit more lift from the government safety net. That's the same federal support that GM CEO Rick Wagoner asked about when he went, hat in hand, to Washington on Monday to lobby for a $10-billion gift to keep his company out of bankruptcy. Or is the CEO of GM just another tax-and-spend socialist?
157 Comments so far
Show AllHow dumb are white males? Some are definately dumber than fuck.
Could it be time for the Daily Mirror to dust off it's 2004 headline:
"How Can 59054087 people be so DUMB"
I hope not, but ya' never know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There's no such thing as a winnable war, it's a lie we don't believe anymore."
Sting, Russians, 1984
...no group is "dumber" than the next, just may show (but not generally) some bias.
Charlie Jackson
Texans for Peace
http://www.texansforpeace.org
The Reptiles have been successful in portraying every civil rights gain among women, gays, african-americans, and latinos as an assault on white men. Forced to abandon the traditional racism, they simply used the new template of civil rights to allow white people to deceive themselves into thinking that they were now the victims of "reverse racism", an which allows an ignorant power-hungry git like Palin & the horny arseholes who think she's articulate & intelligent to cry "sexism!".
Likewise, the whole term "Western civilization" gained currency once the defeat of the Third Reich permanently destroyed its antecedent, "white civilization." The term is different, but the meaning is the same.
John J. Coghlan
Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.
John F. Kennedy.
What we are all going to be asked to do, is to pay our country's bills.
The Republicans have always accused the Democrats of being a tax, and spend,
tax and spend. The Republicans while cutting taxes for the rich, have continued
to spend, spend, spend, and the country has gotten poorer, and poorer, and
deeper in dept. One does not have to be an economist to see that you can't
cut taxes, and than spend more, without eventually winding up in the situation
that we are presently in. If the US Government were a private organization, it
would have gone bankrupt years ago. The Bush Administration, and a crooked, and
corrupt Congress have put this nation 10.2 trillion dollars in debt. Most of the
money was not spent on anything worth while, it has been squandered, pissed
away, and stolen.
The United States has not got one thing from George Bush's War. The only
people who have benefited have been war profiteers. The war has cost tax payers
550 billion dollars,and it is continuing to cost 12 Billion a month. We
don't have this kind of money to spend on the War,and George's other
projects, so we have been borrowing it, mostly from China. It is costing us 406
billion for just the interest payments on those loans.
As the total cost of the war passed 450 billion, the cost for the Iraq war
reached approximately $1500 per person in the United States. If the Iraq war
were to wind up costing 1.9 trillion dollars,as predicted, the cost would be
over 4.2 times higher ($6,300 per United States citizen.) This would put the
expense at $25,000 for an average family of four, or $32,000 per family if
Afghanistan is included. As a comparison, with this money we could have built 8
million houses, paid 15 million teachers, paid for the child care of 530 million
kids, And paid for the scholarship of 43 million students. Figures Provided by,
Gene Simmons,Founder, National Debt Awareness Campaign (NDAC).
Federal Budget Spending and the National Debt
At the present we are only spending 15 Billion on Education. Compare that to
the 406 Billion that we are spending on interest payments on money that we have
borrowed.
Most of our governments revenue comes from taxes. Obama's plans are to
increase revenues, and decrease government spending, and live more within our
means. We are going to have to start paying off the bills of the Bush
Administration sooner or later.
The Bush administration has put us 10.2 trillion in debt. It has made the
rich, much richer, and the rest of us much poorer. We are on the verge of
another Great Depression. Is there any working person that would be so stupid,
as to vote for more of the same?
We need to step back a bit here.
1) How dumb is the entire country in seeing the other corporate party -- which got MORE money from the bankers, etc. than the Rethugs this time around -- as a viable alternative to ruinous corpo-fascism? From the looks of things, it'll be the same message after Bush's departure, just a different messenger. No single-payer, no real change in foreign policy, no serious investigations into the outgoing administration, same military industrial complex running the country.
2) Maybe males/females aren't dumb so much as teachable. That is, they've "learned" well, it's just that the lessons themselves were faulty. The massive onslaught of propaganda and framing from the corporate media and public radio alike. They've learned quite well, in a sense.
3) Basic game theory. Most people at some point need to cash in, to weigh gains/losses. It could be that people are counting their blessing -- a job, home, etc. Maybe they work for a hardcore Rethug boss/company, and by putting a McCain sign in their yard, being active in the Rethug party, etc. they get some sort of perks/karma from it that actually provides a short-term and direct benefit to them. That short-term benefit may come at later cost, cost to their children's future well-being, or their whole country's, but there is a certain logic to it as well.
Just How Dumb Are White Males?
How sexist of you! White females, at least here in rural Texas, are at least as ignorant as white males. Some are even more ignorant. Shame on you!
Obama's Dirty Tricks on the Internet
One of many low points on this thread is the Obamabot riddimboy pretending to be a "Nader supporter" in order to promote Scheer's race-baiting article.
At October 29th, 2008 5:11 pm riddimboy replies to one of my comments: "Im a mixed race Nader supporter (since we are doing 'true confessions' today), but i find your post to be truly offensive. This is probably your attempt at satire (which i doubt), but is more likely your own sick inner self bubbling up like putrid bile ..."
At October 29th, 2008 8:49 pm the "Nader supporter" riddimboy returns: "Whats the matter asswipe ... you sound like your panties are all bunched up."
There's not quite enough grammar or orthography in those comments to convince me that riddimboy is really a "Nader supporter," so I googled his pseudonym, and surprise! Right here on Common Dreams, but on a different thread, there's riddimboy preaching for Obama:
http://www.commondreams.org/dncblog/subtext-race-0
"We can at best mitigate it by holding our noses and voting for a candidate (Obama) who may not be as compulsive a war-mongerer as the Republicans. One can only hope. But somehow claiming moral superiority by voting for Nader and trashing Obama translates directly to voting for McCain."
And on the same thread: "Yeah ... and electing Nader or some other candidate will work ??!!! Incredulous. Nader has a snowballs chance in hell of being elected."
So there's riddimboy, the "Nader supporter," urging everyone to vote for Obama!
This is an unusually blatant example of Obama's tools trying to shut down all discussion that doesn't conform to Obama's race-baiting general strategy, but Obama's little thugs have been trying the same dirty tricks since the beginning of the primaries.
Because if we stop talking about "race," we might notice that Obama has sold out the whole progressive agenda!
Obama often praises Ronald Reagan, but the Republican President he most resembles is Richard Nixon, with his "dirty tricks" at Watergate and elsewhere.
It would be bad enough if Obama were just a regular roll-over-for-Bush/Cheney Democrat, but Obama is a completely unprincipled sociopath, and his covert campaign to pillory Hillary and Bill Clinton as "racists" in the primaries was already evidence enough, even before he demonstrated an absolutely unprincipled to sell out anything for a few more votes.
Obamabots will quickly object that this is "just one isolated case," and let's forget how Obama's thugs completely suppressed discussion on Daily Kos and most of the rest of the blogosphere, and by the time anyone could put together a legal case about Obama's dirty tricks, the sociopathic con-man Barack Obama will already be President of the United States, and nothing anybody says on the internet will matter.
Obama's general election campaign is nothing but a continuation of his race-baiting performance in the primaries, but we don't really have to choose between the sociopathic con-man Barack Obama and the psychotic dinosaur John McCain.
http://www.votenader.org/issues/
Jacob Freeze
Ok asswipe ... now you should try and spend all the spare time that you obviously have in organizing a united front against the two parties, but instead you choose to vomit over the boards as usual. You are a racist prick using your support of nader as a cover for spreading your virulent racist hate speech.
Good Lord, did the trolls roll out today en masse? It looks like someone told all the trolls to head over to Common Dreams and post their crap.
And of course the Obamabots are also here with their usual insubstantial and insulting comments.
"Troll!"
If Obamabots somehow miraculously forgot that word, thay wouldn't have much left to say.
Thanks for illustrating what Obama's support is really all about, Chazz27. You have a few empty slogans, like your master, and that's the end of you.
Jacob Freeze
Thank you for your remarks here. Regardless of who gets our personal votes, practically everyone who visits this site feels unease about the new regime. We need to drop our anger and defensiveness toward each other and get busy to pressure our representatives.
Activists need to focus on our individual Congressional Districts for the next two years. That organizing shouldn't wait until next spring, otherwise we will be playing catch-up again.
Obama/Biden should get the bigot vote. Obama is only half black so they have a 3/4 WHITE MALE ticket. McCain/Palin is a half female ticket.
Perhaps all that winking and the phony Minnesota accent makes them think she will 'do' them.
I think white males would be just as stupid for voting Obama. Actually, maybe it's not stupidity, maybe it's the fact that white males have - for a long time now - all the power. Electing McCain would ensure that we keep it, electing Obama would pretty much ensure that we keep it, however electing a third party (in the right direction) would mean giving up some of this power. This is unacceptable.
http://www.ryanhartman.wordpress.com
Scheer notes: "And have you noticed that the Wall Street crooks are not using the bailout money to ease credit but rather to line their golden parachutes? They know how to take care of their retirement."
It is astonishing how this Cat rightly attacks the Bill, but never imports Obama as a sponsor of it. He accurately drops McCains and Bush's name, but ignores all the Dems who joined the effort. Man, are all you progressive wannabes really that naive? If the legislation created loopholes, it seems to me that ALL those who voted for it are responsible including Obama.
Galactic stupidity comes to mind. Obama offered an Oscar winning performance last night. The problem is, of course, how does he change the "status quo" by being married to it?
I read last year before, the no banker left behind act, before retroactive telcom immunity, before people knew Obama was intent on continuing war, 80% of Americans were already considering voting for a 3rd party. The media, including commondreams, is portraying this election as close, so people feel obligated to vote for Obama. McCain has been throwing the election since day 1, "My fellow prisoners...", Corrupt Bible Nut Caribou Barbie as a running mate... He's not just been throwing the election but doing his best to seem threatening that people will vote against him, rather than for a quality candidate.
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
Blame for the disasterous Bush policies lies on Bush but on those who helped the Supreme Court plant him in office by voting for him. His first act was to reverse our aid to family planning to appease a radical religeous right. His team has fabricated science to wage unprecedented war on the environment. He neglected the warning signs for 9/11, and then executed character assassinations against those who opposed his policies--remember Senator Cleland, a triple amputtee Viet Vet who was labeled unpatriotic and unseated because he sponsored an investigation into the causes of 9/11 which Bush opposed. His deception to drag us into a ill conceived and unnecesary war which now has stirred up a powder keg in the Mideast may ranks as our worst foreign policy blunder in history. The list goes on.
AFTER THESE UNPRECEDENTED ABUSES, HE THEN WON A SECOND TERM--THIS DEFIES LOGIC(even though that election was also stolen). The age old expression "we get the government we deserve" applies here, and includes even those who voted against Bush for standing by and tolerating such unprecedented abuses to our government
I used to think Americans, for the most part, were of normal human intelligence. And then I watched Nixon get re-elected in a landslide (after the truth came out re: Cambodia); I found out just how many Chia pets were sold in this country; I watched more and more people run into churches and other magic places with funny costumes whle rejecting science because they just KNEW they were better than monkeys (ergo, Darwin was wrong - didn't even have to read the book or study the science); I watched Bush not only get enough votes in 2000 to steal the election, but to do it again in '04; and I watch people consistently walk into the same wall over and over while grasping their illusion of electoral choice, casting for (D) or and (R) while ignoring other candidates who actually reflect their positions.
Go figure.
("no gods, no masters" --m. sanger
I live in the eastern West Virginia panhandle, and the "all most white males care about is beer, sports, t & a, pickup trucks and deer hunting" is pretty well accurate. Even the local college educated school teachers drive pickup trucks and go deer hunting. One of them stabbed his wife to death several months ago and another local school teacher was caught having sex with one of her 15 year old students. The other day some honor student/Boy Scout pled guilty to murdering his entire family--his father, his mother, and his two younger brothers. That wasn't quite in this area but it was close enough to make the local corporate ad-rag. But in terms of dumb redneckiness, I'd put this area up against anything Texas has to offer. At least Texas HAS progressives.
Yes, and WVA has Robert Byrd and Nick Rahall, maybe not progressive but pretty darn good on a lot of things anyway. I'd sure rather have Sen. Byrd than either or both of the Texas senators put together.
Robert Byrd was on the front page of the local newspaper the other day sitting at a press conference beside the president of the big local depleted uranium "defense contractor" with his right hand up in a clinched fist salute celebrating the awarding of yet another s**t-load of federal money to that particular company. I can't speck for Nich Rahall, but Jay Rockefeller is about as conversative as you can be while remaining a Democrat, and that WV Democratic Congressman Alan Mollahan has always voted for everything progressives are against and is so damned arrogant he doesn't even have a published e-mail address.
I also live in the Central Valley of California and there's loads of all nationalities who love Bush-McCain here. It's no secret some groups like "Hispanics" or "Latinos" and definitely my Phillipino friends are devoted Catholics who totally vote based on the abortion issue. They don't hide it. I remember a Fillipina friend of mine mocking me the day after Kerry lost the last time.
Plz. quit bashing so called "white" folks. It just divides us like they want us to be divided.
What is White? I prefer "Honky" myself. I'm voting Obama, (though he's flawed) but all this labeling of race is crap. Race is at best a vague biological term. Half these "colored" people have "white" blood in them too. Notice how lately they ask if you're "Non-Hispanic or Hispanic white"? That's because they finally figured out there's no difference. It's a slow admission that we're all one Human Race. Soon they'll ask "are you non black or black white?"
Ethnicity is real and that's self ascribed. Check the data people.
I drive a motorcycle mostly, and a four cylinder Ford Ranger when it's needed. But my "black" next door neighbor drives a huge Diesel Ford King Ranch truck on a daily basis to his desk job at the school district. I guess he's hauling books. Yeah, he's got the Obama yard sign going too, but he votes Bush-McCain every time he fills up, and that's what they care about the most.
If America doesn't Change their lifestyle then Obama won't be able to bring any changes.
HERE'S A BIT OF SCHEER EARLIER IN THE YEAR WHEN HE WROTE WITH PROPER OUTRAGE. IT IS EMBEDDED IN A PIECE IN COUNTERPUNCH WRITTEN BY MATT GONZALEZ, WHO IS RALPH NADER'S RUNNING MATE.
As Robert Scheer, a noted columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle, noted on July 23, 2008, shortly after Obama voted for the FISA bill, ***“Barack Obama is betraying his promise of change and is in danger of becoming just another political hack.”*** And Scheer made these remarks before Obama decided to support off-shore drilling, denounce a Supreme Court death penalty decision, and before he voted for the Wall Street bailout.
http://www.counterpunch.org/gonzalez10292008.html
So, Mr. Scheer, are you an insurgent or an apologist? Or do you also work both sides of the street, as so many others who are published here do?
I think Willie Nelson's beautiful song "Don't Give Up" describes the situation of some white men, and it will be more so as the economy sinks toward the bottom.
Joe
pardon my french, but what the shit does this have to do with naive white males? perhaps i'm a dumb white female, but it seems to me that plenty of americans are "startled by job cuts and the devastation wreaked upon their retirement savings." this is a race-agnostic and gender-agnostic problem; all points made are universal, and i suspect that the author chose the title and theme purely for sensationalist value because it's a hot hook and a sticky title.
don't get me wrong - i'm a left leaning democrat and i agree with the basic points vocalized here - but i disagree with the angle. i think it's bogus and unnecessary. it smells of local fox news bylines.
arguments and points should stand on their own merits; not on the stickiness of a title. get a real job. or get a real angle, at least. peace out. mary.
MKRIO
Hey, this election is the easiest thing EVER!
You want to wind up on the street?
You want your children's teeth to rot?
You want to look after your unbelievably BROKE parents in
their last years?
You want to have no retirement funds? Or even safe savings?
You want your kids not to have a chance at a decent education?
You want to wind up in a bad hospital that leaves you to die in
a hallway?
You want your wife to have no choice about what happens to
her body?
You want 10 kids?
You want to never have sex, then?
You want to never have anything to fall back on?
You want to not have a minimum wage?
You want to not get unemployment insurance?
You want to have zero access to birth control?
You want to let corporations poison your food because
of their profit margins?
You want to believe the US has the best health care in
the world ... when we are 28th on the list of infant
mortality rates? Behind every civilized country?
You want your sister never to finish school?
You want your son to go to the war zones with inferior armor?
You want him, when injured, to go to some useless Army hospital
where they let you sit in your own waste all day long?
You want to believe that if there is a natural disaster in
your home town, such as Katrina, or Galveston, or the mid-western
floods, that some FEMA moron will help you?
You want to believe that 9-11 was inevitable and that the officials
of our government really were paying attention when that warning in
August, 2001, said that "Bin Laden determined to stike the US" was
a credible threat?
You have no problem with a president who spent more time on vacation,
playing cowboy/ranch hand instead of protecting you?
You want to have no protection against toxic agents at work?
You want no discrimination laws to protect you?
You want your mother to not be able to have a mammogram?
You want your father to not be able to get a colonoscopy?
You want your kids to not have after-school programs?
Or lunch?
Or a glass of milk?
You want to wind up at 70, without a job, without retirement,
without healthcare, without any possibility of a dignified death?
OHHHHH. You're really worried about gay rights, gay marriage.
Or you're really worried about people who might not go to church?
Or you're worried about people who aren't the same color or ethnic
background as you.
Or you're worried that we will have to accept defeat in Iraq when we
are already defeated.
Or you don't even know that Afghanistan and Pakistan are the real problems.
Or you are too dumb to know how manipulated you are by the GOP and have
been for the last 29 years.
OK. Then you know exactly what to do:
VOTE FOR MCCAIN/PALIN
You will be in HEAVEN with those two.
It's a slam dunk.
There is only one, possibly two, posters on all of CD who are voting for John McCain. Almost everything on your list is still possible with Barack Obama as President. The problems are SYSTEMIC and won't change until we get rid of our one (so-called two) party SYSTEM.
Just How Dumb Are White Males?
Not much more dumber than all other males ... or all other females. I have come to the conclusion that most people are incapable of critical and objective thinking. Most people are like sheep. Sorry.
How Dumb Are Latino Voters?
According to Mr. Scheer's "logic," Latino voters are even dumber than white males, because Latinos voted for the evil, racist, hate-mongering Hillary Clinton over the wonderful, wonderful, wonderful Barack Obama by...
73% for Clinton and only 25% for Obama!
So according to Robert Scheer's "logic"...
Latino voters are (almost) twice as dumb as white males!
...because white males are giving Obama about 43% in the polls, which is more than they gave Carter, Dukakis, Mondale, Clinton, Kerry, or Gore.
(White males also split for Obama in the Democratic primaries, apparently because sexism temporarily overwhelmed their racism and general stupidity.)
So, in general, I think we can all agree...
Anyone who isn't at an Obama rally right now is a scabby, drooling, ear-flapping moron!
Jacob Freeze
Indians - which is what most "Latinos" actually are, the latter being a horribly wrong label, if you investigate who they are - have a long tradition of not exactly getting along with blacks. Some US Indian tribes had black slaves, after all.
And Indians are generally feeling superior to blacks.
So no surprise either. In that case, it's just simple racism. But of course nobody talks about that in America.
There are simply not enough Indian people in the country for that 1% of the population's racist biases to amount to much. Being a mixed-blood Cherokee also of Pakistani ancestry, I got a lot of grief from Indians who had their "blood quantum" cards. I also heard a lot of Navajos say a lot of mean things about black people, white people, Mexicans, other Indians, just about anyone not them.
'Tis true, all people are racist, it's just a matter of whether one chooses to embrace it or overcome it.
Yikes. In NY Latinos are from many classes, many countries and all kinds of ethnicity: Euro, African, Indian and mostly mixed. Any overall characterization of the permanent politics of such a diverse group would tend to be wrong, because differences within the group are too great and the generational differences are fluid.
But I guess the article, with its tendency to make sweeping generalizations sets the stage.
Joe
What do you call Latino, then, if this includes Africans????
Hi - Latino is a made up category of convenience and as such is subject to complications. Mexican Americans have little recent history in common with Dominican Americans, and yet they are all lumped together.
I was thinking about Spanish speaking people who now live in the 50 states. Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and Cubans, for example, are often of mixed race ancestry - including European, African, American Indian and sometimes Asian. In New York, as I was growing up, the only place I could go to a mixed race party in my neighborhood was in a Puerto Rican home. The family often included white and black members and had friends from all racial groups.
Joe
Wow. You're painting with such a broad brush, I can't even see the other side.
I just want to point out that ALL the extreme right-wing parties, including the Neo-Nazis et al which are successful in elections in European countries have ONE common denominator: Uneducated - particularly younger - (white of course, we're in Europe) MALES are their most important group of voters.
In a country as semi-fascist and as undereducated as is a huge part of America: Are you honestly surprised? I am not.
Yeah, they are that dumb.
After all, even if 60% are voting for McCain, then something like another 35% are voting for Obama under the silly belief that he means 'change'.
Yep, 95% of white males are even dumber than you think.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
If you doubt that, remember that Obama also supported the privatisatoin of social security early in the primary campaign. Since he always changes his position based on what his audience wants to hear, he dropped this rather early after realizing it was a lead balloon in the Dem primaries.
My guess is that with all the Wall Street money in his campaign accounts, that this privatisation of social security will come back to life as an Obama proposal once he's president.
Yes, that's just a guess. But since the Democrats believe they can make up fictional positions that he's not talking about now but will implement once elected, then I feel free to also stop and think about what I think Obama will really do. And those millions of dollars of Wall Street money in his accounts tell me he'll be looking after their interests. So, I do expect Obama to try to prop up his Wall Street backers once elected by trying to give them our Social Security money.
Remember also that many Democrats were ready to support the Bush plan last time around. Right after Bush proposed it, there were lots of Democrats in Congress making favorable noises about sending our money off to Wall Street. It was more when the polls came back with a resounding Hell No from the American people that the idea died. Before that, the Democrats were showing their usual signs of being spineless in opposition of Bush (and their own contributors on wall street) and going along with this.
Plus remember, these are the same Democrats who just led the charge in giving $800 billion of our money in the 'bailout' to the same wall street crooks.
So, yeah, my guess is that one of Obama's surprises once elected will be that he'll resurrect this privitasation of social security idea.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
Samson October 29th, 2008 7:12 pm: "If you doubt that, remember that Obama also supported the privatisatoin of social security early in the primary campaign. Since he always changes his position based on what his audience wants to hear, he dropped this rather early after realizing it was a lead balloon in the Dem primaries."
Samson, I have read Obama's website and heard many of his speeches going back to when he was a State Senator in Illinois and I never once read or heard him advocate the privatization of Social Security in any form. Since you're making this fantastic charge, I challenge you to provide a reputable source for it.
I believe that he will try to privatize social security. It is in his nature to do so. He's always trying to prove how "tough" he is, I suspect because he doesn't feel so tough inside himself (not realizing he doesn't have to). The fact that someone would vote for someone who isn't unequivocal on this one issue is enough reason to despair and be afraid of Obama supporters.
NOT! it is bad enough ppl are uneducated and fail to realize, but if you want to know Obama, read his books. or the website, please don't post partial ideas from repubs and put on Obama.
OBAMA/BIDEN '08!
In McCain's campaign: “Dark sarcasm in his campaign”
Its damn funny to me how many folks here criticize elitism, lies, hate and racism and turn around the next moment and practice it.
There you go again Scheer, thinking. Typical White males have become walking beer distilleries whose interests are limited to sports, t&a, pickup trucks, and deer hunting. McCain is a red meat republican and therefore gets their vote. They would vote for Cheney if he were running. Their homes have wheels and their trucks often don't. They will defend the flag at the drop of a pin, then support Fascism at home. Intellectual white males are often considered effeminate and boring, and held in contempt. They will not be bothered by politics except to reinforce each others viewpoints. They fear that a black president will eliminate their jobs and give them to blacks, latino's, etc. They have no clue how republicans have slowly drained their wealth. They believe in the red, white, and blue, not the red, black, and blue. They often threaten to leave the country is Obama is elected. They have a high opinion of themselves and the girls love them. Their beliefs are generational and will not modify. They are sitting ducks.
Wow, you think entirely in stupid, simple stereotypes, don't you?
Are you really so dumb as to think that you can lump about 70 million people into one simple description?
And what does it do to your simple stereotype thinking to realize that Ralph Nader is a white male? Do you think the above applies to him?
Or how about this, Paul Wellstone was a 'white male'. Do you think the above is a fair description of Paul Wellstone?
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
Was the article about dead people? Hmmm... Stereotypes? Nah, this is how it is where I live. It must be how it is in the rest of the country too since the majority are voting for McCain. And just like McCain they are always throwin' mud (in their liddle'boy 4x4's.) It's as if maturation just "stopped" when they turned 20. Kids in men's bodies. Future "Brown Shirts" I would guess and greedy to a fault. When their beer soaked bodies make it home they kiss the dog and kick the wife. Then the pass out on the couch and snore and out-gas the rest of the night. Then they get up in the morning and do it all over again. Just another run of the mill republican. It's what makes this country great!
Nah, Nader is Lebanese, isn't he?
That makes him an "Arab" and a "secret Moslem" doesn't it?
guess ppl still don't know you can be an Arab AND a christian, i am.
matthew loughran
nycartist,
former NYer living down here in tx. (5 years so far). Living in Galveston TX. Miss NY alot and coming up there for the christmas hoildays to visit family out on LI.
the thing i can say is there are more than enough white knuckleheads down here that i have seen these few years living here. The white southerners live for their priviledge even if it has been at the expense of African Americans,Hispanics. White southerners get some money and so called respectablity and they run for office supporting the death penalty, more war, gutting social programs that help many, many people in this state. I guess this could also be true for many other areas of the country too.
Tom Delay is the perfect example of a troll that ran for office and a red neck asshole also.
I will be voing for Cynthia Mckinney and will help her tour Galveston Island when she comes here tomorrow. The Green Party is the real alternative in this country.
"I guess this could also be true for many other areas of the country too."
How kind of you to say that in defense of us poor old dumb Texans.
"Tom Delay is the perfect example of a troll that ran for office and a red neck asshole also."
Thats about the only truth in your whole statement. I'm sure that if you met a Mongolian or two in Ulan Bator, you'd know everything about Mongolians. As Texas offends you so much. I wonder you don't slither on back to New York. That bastion of non racism.
Being a white southerner and a Texan too, I just thought your stereotypical diatribe shouldn't go unanswered.
matthew loughran
Wrong there thomas. slither back to ny? i will stay here for now. sorry if it offends you so much about your dear old texas but the truth hurts.
when you have a state that executes more people than many countries and white texans proudly support that shit i have say alot of Y'all are pretty screwed up down here. White texans seem to to enjoy using the prision police state to solve social problems instead of more drug treatment programs, better access to healthcare and others.
To some extent, the whole damn country is guilty of those things, Matt. BTW, though I live in NH now, I'm proud to be a native Texan, unlike our dear prez, who is from your (our?) neck of the woods, CT.
Being progressive and growing up in Texas means being tested. Alot. So we grow a whole different kind of progressive down there. More folksy, less snooty. Think Jim Hightower, Bill Moyers, and the the late, great Molly Ivins.
Lots of folks in Texas are just as, if not more, appalled by what goes on in Huntsville than anywhere else in the country. And because we know the many attributes Texas has to recommend her, we're even more hopeful in seeing her change those things-- like the death house in Huntsville-- which are are a blight to her good name.
I'm just anmazed that a person of your caliber would want to stay here among such trash as you say we are.
Yes, you were offensive.
I don't care whether he was "offensive" I care that he was inaccurate.
I'm from Sugar Land, TX.
Tom DeLay was my Congressman.
To say he is a "troll" may be spot-on. But to call him a "red-neck" makes it seem that Sugar Land is some kind of "country" place.
Sugar Land is a suburban "bedroom community" of Houston, with several subdivisions and a population around 100,000 -it is a city in all respects but having relevant commercial and industrial centers.
My high school (W.P. Clements) was only 40% "white", yet only 10% "black" or "hispanic", who were the other half? Asians! Chinese, Vietnamese, and Indian mostly.
Why were these Asians in Suburban Houston? OIL! Their parents were engineers. Fluor-Daniel corporation has a "sub-headquarters" in Sugar Land, and Houston of course has many other energy companies.
This is the constituency that voted Delay in, time after time. A lot of "red-necks" but also a helluva a lot of middle-class recent immigrants with technical degrees.
Spend some more time getting to know Texas before you start acting like you know the place, that's my advice to my "fellow matt".
So Matti,
Is your real problem legal immigrants taking your job? People of color? Or is it that it justifies whatever 'progressive values' you like to spew that aren't.
I would like to see a reputable breakdown of voting on that statement.
Molly Ivins was a proud Texan.
President Lyndon Johnson was a white male from Texas who implemented the most progressive legislation we've seen in this country in the last 50 years.
Jim Hightower is a white male from Texas.
I'm offended by stupid, shallow, simplistic thinking, no matter where it comes from.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
OK... How about this for dumb?:
Progressives have 2 candidates in the presidential race, Nader and Mckinney. By definition, they are running AGAINST each other.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see either one in the White House, and in fact I campaigned for one of them enthusiastically in 2000. Never thought he'd win... wasn't what we were going for. We were going for 5%, so as to qualify for federal matching funds, and thereby build the party.
Don't really have that as reason now, since progressives can look forward to splitting LESS THAN 3% of the vote this time around.
How stupid am I? How stupid are we?
It's just so pathetic.
You know... being a progressive.
Being "right" (or "correct," or whatever) is little consolation.
Look, I'm not a Kool-Aid drinking Obamabot. I expect very little out of him in terms of true progressive reform. I didn't vote for him in the primaries. (I live in NH, so I had 8 choices, not 2).
But he WILL BE PREFERABLE to McCain/Palin, for reasons I shouldn't have to explain to posters on CD. And there will be no 3rd Party to build this time around.
So, it'll be off to the polls holding my nose, and I'll be doing so with eyes wide open.
The reason I cannot vote for Obama is not because I need to be "right" but because there is a bare minimum that a candidate must meet: as a peace activist, I will not under any circumstances vote for a pro-war candidate. I am also completely anti-nuclear power. The list is actually quite long. Fear based voting never gets us what we want.
progressiveparty October 30th, 2008 5:19 am: "The reason I cannot vote for Obama is not because I need to be "right" but because there is a bare minimum that a candidate must meet: as a peace activist, I will not under any circumstances vote for a pro-war candidate. I am also completely anti-nuclear power. The list is actually quite long. Fear based voting never gets us what we want."
There were once groups of people who wouldn't 'under any circumstances' vote for a candidate that didn't perfectly meet their every whim. These groups warred with each other as their democracy slipped away and another unified party stepped in to take advantage of the various schisms between the factions of the progressive left and democratic moderates. Of course I'm talking here about Germany during the Weimar Republic of the 1920s when the various parties that might have stopped the Nazis -- the labor unionists, socialists, Christian Democrats, etc. -- fought with each other and allowed Hitler to conquer. By the time they woke up to the dangers of the fascist Nazis -- even though they had been warned many times -- it was too late and they were being taken away to labor camps where most of them died an early death. The Nazis were a minority party in Germany that were able to assume power by keeping the opposition at war with itself over 'ideological purity.' Had they all united behind one candidate and formed a strong government before it was too late, they could have easily kept the Nazis a fringe party.
In 2000, I enthusiastically supported Ralph Nader and we got Bush. Not many predicted then how bad it would get under Junior, who was seen as a moderate-conservative by most, including SC Justice Sandra Day O'Connor who later regretted her vote for the Crawford Dauphin in Bush v. Gore. Now we're in two wars; our Constitution and civil liberties are hanging by a thread; our Justice Department operates as a political arm of the GOP; we torture our prisoners; four members of our Supreme Court believe in the Unitary Executive theory that the president (read 'dictator') cannot be restrained by Congress or law in time of war; we're verging on an outright Christian theocracy, and our economy is ruined. This election may be our last chance to move in a different direction from the path to fascism the GOP has been steadily pursuing since Bush was illegally installed as president.
I can guarantee you one thing: Should McCain be elected he will continue the destructive policies of Bush and, from all indications, be more of a warmonger than Cheney. If you're the peace activist you claim to be, that should bother you. Another frightening thing to think about on this Halloween: If McCain dies in office, likely for man his age who's prone to cancer, Palin will become president, a woman endorsed by the Christopublican Right who believes in a Christian theocracy, the 'Rapture,' and has never read the Constitution.
You wrote, "Fear based voting never gets us what we want." Well, that's just not true. If the various liberal factions of Germany's brief democracy had solidly united against Hitler in the late '20s out of fear of fascism, he never could have seized power in 1933. And if you aren't afraid of what is going on in this country these days, then you haven't been paying attention. If McPalin is elected, and you are arrested and hauled off to a camp somewhere as 'a domestic terrorist,' perhaps you'll appreciate the utility and wisdom of 'fear based voting' and wish you had done more of it when you had the chance.
Obama may not be perfect, but he's a step in the opposite direction from the path of fascist theocracy the Republicans are set on.
Read "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45" by Milton Mayer for further info. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11845.htm
Thanks for the reply. But I'd beg to differ with you on at least one point: The Supreme Court. You SHOULD be scared at the prospect of McCain making the next one to three appointments.
Have you looked into WHY Nader split with the Greens?
Its a bit of a story, and has a lot to do with the 2004 "election".
No, I haven't. But whatever reason it is it still serves to underscore my point that the progressive movement is so beset by in-fighting that we're going to have 2 candidates squabble over less than 5%.
This is just sad and pathetic. It's laughable and sad at the same time. We should be able to do better because our ideas are better than this. We need a candidate and a party that can appeal to the majority of Americans, because I really do believe that the majority would support a progressive agenda if it were presented in a palatable fashion by the right candidate.
As much as I truly admire Ralph Nader, and as hard as I worked for him 8 years ago, he's not that candidate, and neither is Cynthia McKinney.
A white male called to raise money for a non political group and went off on the Dems as the only ones who f--ked up the country - I told him I was voting for the Black Guy and he had a blank moment and slammed the phone. DUMB WHITE GUY!
matti:I just found this one from you re French. I had a grandfather who was French, and a Jew. I never met him. Thanks for the laughs. You had some good points,too although I don't agree with all you've said.
I usually ignore the haters, as in why encourage them. And I won't be baited by some. Scheer's been on DemocracyNow quite a bit, I think. "Over and out" as they say.
matthew loughran
nycartist,
former NYer living down here in tx. (5 years so far). Living in Galveston TX. Miss NY alot and coming up there for the christmas hoildays to visit family out on LI.
the thing i can say is there are more than enough white knuckleheads down here that i have seen these few years living here. The white southerners live for their priviledge even if it has been at the expense of African Americans,Hispanics. White southerners get some money and so called respectablity and they run for office supporting the death penalty, more war, gutting social programs that help many, many people in this state. I guess this could also be true for many other areas of the country too.
Tom Delay is the perfect example of a troll that ran for office and a red neck asshole also.
I will be voing for Cynthia Mckinney and will help her tour Galveston Island when she comes here tomorrow. The Green Party is the real alternative in this country.
I just read the the Headline and thought "Pretty f*k*g dumb. I'm still laughing!!! That's a real question? You gotta be kidding.
I just read the the Headline and thought "Pretty f*k*g dumb. I'm still laughing!!! That's a real question? You gotta be kidding.
I'm a white male with a couple of graduate degrees, but when I take off my white collar work duds and kick back in the backwoods of northern Michigan, I can blend in pretty well with the NASCAR loving, gun toting, good old boy locals. I did exactly that a couple of weekends ago at a tavern in rural, economically depressed eastern Mason county. I kept my mouth shut and opinions to myself, but here are some of the sentiments I encountered.
Hand painted lawn sign in a farmer's lawn by the side of the road: "Obama for President. He is half white. That is good enough for me."
"Obama is okay, he's one of the good ones. You know what I mean. He don't have that ghetto in him."
"I'm so mad at them sonsabitches, I may just vote for the colored guy this year before I'll let them get away with any more of this bail out shit. Maybe I am just a dumb redneck, but I ain't that dumb."
I am sure the crowd I was hanging out with would be unlikely to recognize the name Henry Paulson or Phil Gramm, and certainly had never heard of the Gramm-Leach-Briley Act or the Commodities Futures Modernization Act. Rather than Mr. Sheer's question "Just how dumb are white males?", I sense a more important breaking news line of inquiry should be "Just how racist are white males"?
Disturbingly racist, apparently, but nonetheless very creative in fashioning and articulating a rationale that may result in more votes for Barack Obama out in Limbaugh Land this election cycle than expected, no matter how bizarre the internal reasoning processes may be.
He's okay, because he's white.
He's okay, because he's a qualified, non-threatening black man who can't do any worse.
He's okay, because these Republican sombitches need to get the message that they can't just play me for a fool.
In particular, if that last strain of "dumb white male" reasoning is emerging into play with six days to go before election day - if race is sometimes getting trumped out in the boondocks by economics and/or a growing awareness that shallow, mean spirited sloganeering is pretty much all that McCain/Palin is offering to the working class portion of the GOP base this campaign season (while their buddies are looting the public till) - then this may be a change on the horizon that is really worth believing in.
Bill from Saginaw
Some excellent thoughts Bill from Saginaw. Your information about Phil Graham is quite true and it would be difficult to try to convince a typical redneck from anyplace in the US of the economic damage to the country. You should also know that his wife was on the Board of Directors of Enron, on the audit committee and look what happened there. In Arkansas, I point out to some of these folks that if McCain gets into office that their sons and grandsons will wind up in the Army Infantry without volunteering. For all their flagwaving, most of them don't want their kids going into harms way and this is the only argument that makes them think. Also read an article from Politico.com "Racists for Obama",which explains that the economy has trumped racsim.
Your experience lays bare how askew with reality this propaganda article is. It's a piece to lead people to believe they must throw away their votes on Obomber, rather than voting for the Greens. Nader is in the pocket of The Plaintiff Bar, the richest lawyers in America, who are surely voting for continued corporate domination. He's had a mutual backscratching lucrative relationship with them for decades.
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
Shit. As much as this kinda freaks me out, I'm glad to hear it.
I'm still voting for Cynthia McKinney, however. I live in Utah and our electoral votes are going to those shallow, mean-spirited sloganeers whether I like it or not.
Did you point out to them that Obama was FOR the bailout?? All this tells me is that since Obama is in actuality a closet Republican (really a Republicrat) that these folks can feel comfortable, since we will still get more aggresive imperialist endless wars... oh, why bother? Obama supporters just don't get their complicity.
Most likely you would not "blend in pretty well."
I find the article offensive. I grew up as a white male who was not Anglo (with a name not of the UK) in a portion of the country dominated by Anglo whites. As a child, I was constantly harassed and ridiculed because I was not an Anglo white. My father once ran for a state political office, as an FDR Democrat several decades ago, but lost as his opponent made fun of his non-Anglo name and roots. Then when I grew up, all of a sudden I was supposed to pay the price for all the privileges that white males held for all those years, though I never received any of those privileges and neither did my father or his father. I felt I was paying for a crime I did not commit, simply because I had some superficial characteristics similar to those of some who in the past had received undeserved rewards.
Why can't we just tone down the racism and sexism and build support for values we can all share?
"Why can't we just tone down the racism and sexism and build support for values we can all share?"
Why not indeed? Perhaps there are too many with too much invested in the racism industry?
I don't know about that, but I would hope that at least on a progressive website we could leave such problematic divisiveness behind.
CommonDreams = Main Stream Media
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
kivals: Have you ever read Tim Wise (on antiracism)? I can't tell what your ethnic background is and that's your business.
Doesn't Wise admit he is some sort of privileged Anglo white male? I do not admit to being similarly privileged. From possessing the seemingly minor handicap of having an Eastern-European last name in an Anglo world, I was able to recognize that there are an unbounded number of types of discrimination, but only the most common get much attention. There are countercurrents and countercurrents to those countercurrents. I had the good fortune to learn that as a small child getting roughed up from time to time by groups of boys because of my surname. Actually, the majority of my friends when I was a child were Mexican-Americans, who saw nothing wrong with my surname (there were virtually no African-Americans or Asians where I lived).
I learned that there are an unbounded number of ways that people can group themselves or that others can group them, and many of those groupings could lead to unfair discrimination, but that the groupings most likely to become popular, and to have the grievances of the members of such groups addressed, were those with power from numbers (e.g. women) or from money or some combination of both (e.g. wealthy well-educated women).
kivals:I can't recall where you grew up, if you said. My family (Jewish) comes from E. Europe (mostly Poland,and Russia),so you know what their names are/were. Tim Wise is half-Jewish (last name). He thinks anyone white has some privilege in this society. There is now, as well as childhood,too.
I have a good friend who is Catholic from East Europe and grew up in a Republican world of upstate NY. Very aware of being a kind of "outsider". Please, please expand for me on wealthy well-educated women. I don't know more than one.
I grew up in South Texas, and my surname is from Moravia. I must confess I do not know that much about Wise, but I doubt that the name "Wise" would have caused him any problems in his youth with Anglos or any other group.
The reference to "wealthy, well-educated women" was partly a shot at Hillary, who could cast herself as some sort of victim, with grievances, in spite of possessing almost all the privileges imaginable. She was female, obviously, and that puts her in a group that has been historically discriminated against, but she was also white Anglo, physically attractive, healthy, a US citizen (that used to be more of a good thing than it is today), currently wealthy and from the upper middle class, with caring parents who supported her ambitions, with opportunities to attend the best schools, and with a marriage to someone highly successful. Those other attributes could form the basis for groupings that, while generally attractive, would not have done much for her politically.
kivals:when you said lots of Latinos, I figured maybe TX, but I have that NYC view of geography. I didn't think of Hillary C. when you said that. I actually once had a rich boss (art job). Take a look via google at some of his stuff. There are ways people benefit by virtue of whiteness, now, as an adult, even if grew up poor and outsider. I will look up Moravia. It's tough to be an "outsider". Sorry about your childhood experience. I know that as a result of my father dying when I was 10:he was a disabled WWII vet (he'd enlisted when I was a baby and had to get an ok from my mom) and I was the only kid I knew without a father.
I'm a Kucinich supporter. Once he gave up his antiabortion position. I have been against HIllary C. since she voted for the war resolution. I do like how upset she made/makes the Republicans. She's good on some issues. I voted for Obama. I am angry at my Congressman for not supporting the kind of bill Kucinich was for. thanks for your thoughtful replies.
Thank you for your polite and informative discussion. By the way, I really like Kucinich too (and also have settled for Obama), but I knew from the start that the corporate media would never give him a fair shake. Some at CD never seem to accept just how big a role the corporate media plays in our elections.
Kucinich is as much a corporate shill.
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
Just how dumb are white men?
About as honest and humble as liberal Jewish West Coast pencil pushers, I guess....
This white male is smart enough to see that "the positive change that Barack Obama so clearly represents" is all in the author's mind. Moving the soldiers from Iraq to Afghanistan is "positive change"? Bailing out Wall Street is "positive change"? Creating a health care system that leaves the avaricious insurance companies in the loop is "positive change"?
Yes, I know how to read. How about you, Mr. Scheer? Try reading Obama's voting record where he approved funding for Bush's wars. Read his voting record where he voted for FISA and okayed retroactive immunity for telecom companies that illegally spied on American citizens. Read his voting record where he voted to bail out his corporate donors on Wall Street. Read a listing of who his largest donors are--75% corporate.
Mr. Scheer is apparently planning a sequel to his article, extending his brilliant insights about the retards who aren't totally committed to Barack Obama to cover Asian-American voters.
How Dumb Are Asian-American Voters?
Surprisingly, or not, some recent polls indicate that Asian-American voters are almost as dumb as white males!
"A major new survey of Asian American voters shows good news for Barack Obama supporters: Obama leads by double digits among Asian Americans, with 41% of Asian American likely voters favoring Obama to 24% for McCain. But the survey also shows that we have a lot of work to do before Election Day, as more than a third of Asian American voters (35%) remain undecided."
35% undecided!
But it's so incredibly obvious that Obama is infinitely better than McCain!
Isn't it weird that so many Asian-American voters can't figure it out? What are they thinking, or not thinking?
How Dumb Are Asian-American Voters?
Robert Scheer wants to know!
Jacob Freeze
jacob freeze:you know "retard" is offensive. I won't even bother replying to the rest. Sometimes men are just "bad little boys".