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Quagmire, Phase 2: The Invasion of Pakistan
The United States has just invaded Cambodia. The name of Cambodia this time is Pakistan, but otherwise it's the same story as in Indochina in 1970.
An American army, deeply frustrated by its inability to defeat an anti-American insurgent movement despite years of struggle, decides that the key to victory lies in a neighboring country. In 1970, the problem was the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Cambodia. Today it is Taliban and al-Qaida bases inside Pakistan, which the United States has been attacking from the air for some time, with controversial "collateral damage."
George W. Bush has now authorized independent ground assaults on Taliban and al-Qaida targets in Pakistan's Tribal Territories, without consultation with Pakistan authorities. These already have begun.
This follows a period of tension, with some armed clashes, between American and Pakistani military units, the latter defending "Pakistan's national sovereignty." Pakistan public opinion seems largely against "America's war" being fought inside Pakistan.
Washington's decision was made known just in time for the seventh anniversary of the 9/11 attacks that opened the first phase of the "war on terror," after which "nothing could ever be the same." We no doubt have now begun phase two.
The eventual outcome of the American intervention in Cambodia in 1970 was Communist overthrow of the American-sponsored military government in that country, followed by genocide. The future consequences in (nuclear-armed) Pakistan await.
There is every reason to think they may include civil protest and disorder in the country, political crisis, a major rise in the strength of Pakistan's own Islamic fundamentalist movement and, conceivably, a small war between the United States and the Pakistan army, which is the central institution in the country, has a mind of its own and is not a negligible military force.
In Afghanistan, American and NATO forces have been complaining for many months that victory over the Taliban was impossible so long as there were secure Taliban bases in Pakistan's largely inaccessible Tribal Territories.
Pakistan's former president, Pervez Musharraf, was told by his American allies to clean the Taliban out of the Territories or the U.S. Army and NATO would do it for him. U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama made the same threat. John McCain concurred. Musharraf had been looking for a negotiated arrangement with the tribesmen.
Pakistan's military intelligence services created the Taliban while they were collaborating with the CIA to form the mujahadeen that drove the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan. Many in the service still support the Taliban as a useful instrument against India, and to keep Afghanistan out of the hands of more dangerous enemies.
Musharraf was forced out of office. The U.S. brought in exiled former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, expected to be cooperative. She was assassinated, presumably by Islamic extremists. Her widower has been elected to take her place and declares himself an enemy of terrorism. However, the United States has already taken the matter into its own hands.
In the Vietnamese case, the American military command held that it could win the war by invading Cambodia to cut the so-called Ho Chi Minh Trail, along which supplies and arms for the Viet Cong Communist insurrection were being transported. The argument made was that cutting this route would starve the Viet Cong of supplies.
Initially, the unhappy Prince Sihanouk of Cambodia, desperately trying to keep his country out of the Vietnam War, was persuaded to turn a blind eye to U.S. bombing of the trail. A military coup followed in 1970, installing an American puppet general. B-52 saturation bombing ensued, without the desired military effect, but killing many Cambodians.
The joint U.S. and South Vietnamese "incursion" to cut the trail came in April 1970; it simply pushed the supply operations deeper into Cambodia. Richard Nixon said he acted to prove that the United States was not "a second-rate power." "If, when the chips are down, the world's most powerful nation acts like a pitiful helpless giant, the forces of totalitarianism and anarchy will threaten free nations and free institutions throughout the world."
The native Cambodian Khmer Rouge subsequently defeated the American-backed military regime in Phnom Penh. Genocide followed, the "killing fields," on which the United States turned its back, condemning the triumphant Vietnamese Communist government when it later invaded Cambodia to stop the killing.
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89 Comments so far
Show AllNo evidence of that whatsoever. What we do have evidence of is Bush 41 meeting one of the Bin Ladens on 9/11 in a Washington hotel and both enjoying the carnage on CNN.
No. after 9-11 Bin Laden denied involvement.
After the US invaded Afghanistan, while searching through the rubble in Kabul, they just happened upon a video. And the video just happened to show a man purported to be Osama, although he looked different, and "Osama" just happened to take credit for 9-11 on this video that the US just happened to find.
What a coincidence!
Could this be like the passport that drifted down on the streets of Manhattan, surviving a fiery plane crash and the explosion of a 110 story building- to be found to credit the story of Muslim terrorists?
Or the luggage that didn't make the connecting flight, with flight manuals and Atta's will?
How then, did he fly that plane, without the flight manual in his luggage? And how were people to carry out his will, if he expected to die on that plane with his luggage?
Cute, but naive in your comments. Do you watch Fox News much? Let me guess your favorite news reporter is Mr. Fair and Balanced Bill 'O Reilly?
First off did you go to the FBI website and see what I was talking about? If you had, you would have read from the horses mouth itself that Bin Laden is not wanted for the events of 911 because the FBI has found no evidence that Bin Laden had anything to do with 911.
So maybe you and Bill 'O Reilly can make a phone call and update the FBI that they have been wrong all along....
Quite simply, you are mistaken. Neither Osama nor Al-Qaida have claimed responability.You are a victim of disinformation. Then, again, that is typical for you...lizard
Russia is more of a worry than Pakistan? You silly person. The US is the one everyone worries about. If you lived anywhere but the US you would know this. Your attitude is the reason the US is so dangerous, its people see the whole world as hostile, while history shows that the US and England are the greatest aggressor of them all. Your attitude feeds the ones in power and cause misery in the world...............lizard
Sorry Lizard Dude, I did not mean out of all of the countries in the world to worry about. What I a meant is that out of the two most recent places the US has decided to start a ruckus, I am more concerned about Russia than Pakistan.
My attitude is not the reason the US is so dangerous, people like you who take everything out of context make huge leaps to conclusion are.
I agree that the US and England is totally out of whack, where did I ever justify what they are doing.
Some recommendations would be to try the decalf next time!
Concerned about what? How is Russia dangerous to you? Out of all the countries in the world? What do you mean, that there are many more countries to be worried about? Why? Mosty countries mind their own business. It seems you share the view that the US is an angel living in hell and therefore has to be on its toes. Is this a realistic assesment or a product of indoctrination? You should not be concerned about Russia or Pakistan, you should be concerned about England and the US. I didn't se you worry about that. I am not concerned about Russia, I am delighted that they have stood up to us. If you are worried about their defending themselves then how about stopping the attack? lizard
I do not share the view that the US is an angel living in hell. The US has made the world a living hell would be more of what I think. I am glad that Russia stood up to us as well, as I have posted in many other areas on this site. Am I worried that the US will attack Russia, or another country. You are simply twisting what I am saying because I am not focused on the one thing that you are.
There are many things going on in the world at this time. I am not happy, nor have I ever supported the invaison of Afghanistan, Iraq, or Pakistan. In fact I see no reason for wars at all unless it is a defensive measure. If someone invaded the US, then I think as an American I should help defend my country, and therefore would support war. Otherwise I do not support war at all.
Thing is, I say that as an American I am more worried about Russia than Pakistan. I do not say I support what we did in using Georgia to attack and kill innocent people. I am not saying that I do not support the fact that Russia stepped in and did something about it. I am not saying I approve of any Empire Building by the US anywhere. All I am saying is that Russia is NOT THE COUNTRY TO PISS OFF.
You should stop reading things into what people say. You have accused me of being the same thing as Bush and Cheny and all the Neo-Cons.
I have no more control over what my government is doing than you do. So stop blaming me for what others are doing. Stop twisting what I am saying. Stop accusing me of things I have never said, or posted, or even thought.
Instead maybe propose ideas that will help.
You are right, that is not what I thought were saying. I am sorry and pleased at the same time....I will seriously consider your advice. I think you are right there too.....................lizard
http://twocanpete.blogspot.com/
You have two choices in a situation like this, high altitude bombing or leave. It's pure stupidity to engage in a ground war under thes conditions. Unless of course your real objective is to make a big show about saving the world for democracy while the only thing you really care about is enriching the defense contractors that you happen to be in bed with.
I disagree...you can insert small Teams into his backyard and they can leave their calling cards till he realizes he's no longer safe where he thought he was
Enriching Military Contractors?...hmmm...I'm a Contractor...wheres my check?
To argue that something is acceptable on the basis that you can do it is to argue for amorality.
Who flexed his muscle and said he would intervene in Pakistan?
Here's a hint: his favorite word is "change".
For once Obama got something right
Bill from Saginaw - great post. A couple of other errors from Mr Pfaff:
Benazir Bhutto was indeed exiled (along with her husband - they fled after charges of corruption were laid), but she wasn't "installed" by the US; Musharaf's position as both president and commander of the army (he seized power in a coup in 1999) had become untenable. Also, while Musharaf was President, Bhutto had been Prime minister (twice) - a very different position in a country that supposedly has a parliamentary democracy. Bhutto's widower, Asif Zardari, is now the new President (elected by parliament, not the public). Benazir's father was also Prime Minister in the 70s. He was assassinated. So were both her brothers. So was she. Pakistan is a very unstable country. Probably more dangerous than Iran.
Nullius,
“Pakistan is a very unstable country. Probably more dangerous than Iran.”
But certainly not as dangerous as the USA.
Won't be "Invasion" of Pakistan...WILL be "Incursion" (we're already doing it)
until we have neutralized every HVT we can find...till they are looking over their shoulder everytime they step out to take a piss...
and the Paki's won't lift a finger to stop us
I realise Americans have a long held tradition of sanitising history with fairytales, but still wonder why so many from within the supposed independent media continue to perpetuate the myths of those they supposedly oppose.
RE: "Pakistan's military intelligence services created the Taliban while they were collaborating with the CIA to form the mujahadeen that drove the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan."
- Rubbish! The Ruskis pulled out of Afganistan in 1989. The Taliban did NOT exist untill U$ DoD funneled Unacol $ponsorship through Pakistani ISI, starting mid 1995 and ending mid 2001. During which time U$A double crossed their former Mujahadeen allies.
RE: "The native Cambodian Khmer Rouge subsequently defeated the American-backed military regime in Phnom Penh. Genocide followed, the "killing fields," on which the United States turned its back, ..."
- More rubbish! U$A along with its ideaological nemisis, China, armed and financed Saloth Sar's/Pol Pot's genocidal regime via Thailand.
Another favourite myth of the U$ propaganda machine is their boogeyman Usama bin Laden, who's name they can't even get right.
How do you expect to catch a guy who had his Wahabi burial/funeral in late 2001?
Wahabis traditionally have unmarked graves, so you're NEVER going to find the monster of your own creation. You'll just create ever increasing hoardes who desire "Death to America".
Taliban, Al Qaeda, terrorists, Muslim fundamentalists, etc are probably of less importance to the Bush regime than nuclear bombs in Pakistan. Bush aims to create turmoil and chaos in Pakistan, and at the right time send the Special Forces in to steal the nukes.
The west in general does not want Muslims nations anywhere to have nukes because it makes it easier for the west to bully them, as Israel is doing it with the Arabs. If the CIA is unaware as to where the nukes are, which is improbable, then a couple of US friendly, Pakistani generals will oblige, and then live in the US happily ever after.
Great posts Bill, Nate , Nullius etc. As for SnowWolf it seems the smaller your penis the bigger your mouth !! Its no wonder we got our asses kicked from vietnam to iraq. Our bark has no bite and we come back wimpering like SnowWolf and pretend we are big bad wolves on ... the internet !!!
ajada September 13th, 2008 9:33 am
I realise Americans have a long held tradition of sanitising history with fairytales, but still wonder why so many from within the supposed independent media continue to perpetuate the myths of those they supposedly oppose.
An exhausted, bored, fearful, uncaring, ignorant nation driving itself to the landfill of history has only fairy tales left to comfort itself on the trip. Almost no American alive can imagine, much less admit, that we are coasting downhill toward a cliff that drops a thousand feet into an inferno. They still think the hill will level off and we will eventually be on our way up again. Hasn't it always been so? Here's a recent story from the San Francisco Chronicle: a car thief on Telegraph Hill was cornered by the police. The thief saw a wall, ran toward it and hopped over, not realizing that on the other side was a 200 foot drop. The thief, naturally, fell to his death. That's the United States.
This article is a must read. Pakistan and the U.S. are joined at the hip.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JI13Df01.html
Shahzad, unlike his American counterparts, is an investigative journalist who has spent enough and more time with the Taliban and others in the heart of Waziristan and other border areas.
The Pakistani Military cannot survive without American $$$. These two entities U.S. Govt and Pakistan Military/ISI have been aiding and helping each other for the last 60 years. Our fundamental Pakistan policy has not changed. We keep OUR dictators in line for the most part and there are occasional spats but they get ironed out.
Case in point:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080913/ap_on_re_as/pakistan
Life goes on. We get to have our way with them. The Paksitani Military in turn gets to have its way with the Pakistani people.
Might be true on a certian level, but then I would ask is this what America is really about?
Putting in our Dictators, making arms deals (funding and arming both sides), killing innocent people for money, power and greed. Is this what America is about, is this just, is this what Americans want?
Let me guess, the family that wants to immigrate to America wants to be apart of something like this? People around the world see this as ok?
I know you are just stating how things are seen from a politcal/military perspective, but in a way your comments seem to justify it? If I am wrong, then I am sorry to suggest this, but otherwise I feel offended as an American to think this is ok, or Taboo.
At the "issues" section of Obama's website, you can write truth about things that the Bush administration and their neocon buddies and "realists" have taught Congress to believe: RUSSIA is at fault. CHAVEZ and MORALES "hate America." ISRAEL is the victim in the Middle East. Et Cetera.
If we want Obama and Biden to overcome the lies, we need to educate them as to the truth.
And, today's topic: PAKISTAN was told of the change in methods but "stubbornly" insists that it is a sovereign nation and that the US has no right to invade its country without permission and to kill civilians in our zeal to "get" Al-Queda. Well, guess what it is a sovereign nation and we are in violation of international law when we cross its borders. The International Criminal Court will prosecute war criminals whose own countries refuse to call them to account. Sounds good to me and may be the only way Bush/Cheney et al. (many et al.) will ever receive their due.
I hate to say this, but congress knows more about what is really going on than everyone on this site combined. They don't need an education, they need a moral compass.
How do you remove things from the constition like "Impeachment"? Nancy P is famous for her "Impeachment is off the table" comment?
The reason is that our congress is just as corrupt as the current administration. It is why the wars keep getting funded, it is why our civil liberties are gone, it is why the torture bill, surviellance bill, and half a dozen other illegal bills have been passed.
These people don't need and education, they need a fricken pink slip!
If this is a progressive site there really is no hope. Embedded in these comments are militaristic, chauvinistic and ignorant comments that show that the sickness of the American mind extends throughout the country. I am very disappointed to see the degree of immaturity evident in this thread. DISGUSTING. Even those who seem to understand don't seem to be able to help themselves from slipping into this attitude of using force to solve all problems. This is not serious thinking, this is amateurish.And this is supposed to be the best we have to offer?...........very sad............lizard
Perhaps you can spare some wisdom, oh noble one?
Yes,
Stop the belligerence. Learn to speak without threatening to hang people, or pass a law to force people to do what you want. Learn to speak without insults. Lets see an end to fuck this and that. Curb your anger. Spare me the sexual comments on Palin, they are assinine. Stop being in love with your gun, both of them...Above all, be less ignorant. Stop sharing the belief that you have to save the world and realize that it is the world that is going to save you. Stop thinking of the world as dangerous and adversarial, the Russians tried really hard to be nice and yet they are treated as dangerous. It was the US that betrayed Russia and reneged on its commitment not to expand Nato. Realize that we can't be policemen of the world because we don't stand for anything good. There is too much talk about how the US can shape the world and very little about how to join it as an equal partner. Stop bad-mouthing Pakistan and India and China and Russia and Muslims and whoever you seem to want to criticize to make yourselves feel important. We are not leaders, we are an anchor that retards world development, so why dump on countries like China that are lifting millions out of poverty, or Putin who took back what the friends of Yeltsin stole. How about a little praise for this act from a man who was with them and could have been super rich but chose his people instead? Do we have someone like that here? lizard
Excellent, simply excellent. In a phrase, Cease American Exceptionalism and cut ties with all that promotes it.
There are millions of Americans that feel the same way as you do. Sure there are a lot of people who are not good at expressing themselves, but just because our Government is doing wrong, does not mean every American supports them, or wants them to do what they are doing.
I agree with your comments. Thing is most folks that are on this site actually feel the same way you do. You have just jumped to conclusion that everyone who is American is ignorant, and supports what is going on.
To be honest with you, if you read many of the posts on this site you will see that folks are glad that Russia (including myselft) stepped in and interviened. It is good to not see other countries bullied around by the us. As an American Citizen, I am ashamed of what my government is doing, I am so upset that you have no idea.
But if I protest, I get arrested, charged with being a terrorist, and beaten. If I write letters to my congressman or women, I get nothing back. I like millions of Americans are not being heard in Mainstream Media. So we come here to voice our opinions.
Rather than pointing out what our goverment thinks, and assuming that all Americans are behind it, point out a way that we as Americans can put an end to this madness.
Again you are right. But that's why I said "embedded". I certainly see a lot of people who understand on CD. If I am too effusive it is because I still haven't recovered from discovering that what I learned in school was a mirage. I truly believed.
How to put an end to this madness? Perceptions must be changed. The women's movement changed our perception of women and their role in society. The civil right s movement changed perception of black people. Perhaps neither of these results have been perfect but perceptions did change. What perception must be changed? The perception that America is a force for good. A movement to make the population aware of this would be extremely difficult and dangerous given the present mentality. Marches with this message would provoke hostility. Then again, maybe that is what it takes.
At the very least, there must be an attempt to lead people to alternative news. Billboards, T-shirts. Financial support of the alternatives.
We must not be afraid to object when we hear imperialistic talk, even if that means problems in your relationships. Sometimes you may even attack the wrong people, but oppose one must, or be complicit.
Likewise, I think to vote for Obama or McCain is complicit. One has to be true to principles. It cannot be OK to vote for war criminals.
Awareness of the meaning of war crimes and how it applies to the behavior of the US congress is likewise essential, hence impeachment was essential. Too bad that's gone.
I might add that promoting secularism and opposing religiosity is needed too, but I'm probably asking for the moon.
Because the task is so enormous I think the only catalyst that can produce it is a serious decline in the standard of living of Americans. Our easy lives allow us to not care and let things be.
lizard
Settle down a moment.
I agree with you that some comments (sincere ones, as opposed to trollish) reveal disappointing or counterproductive assumptions. Nevertheless, it is erroneous to suppose that everyone is at the same point of political thought or to suppose that everyone will end at the same point. We're dealing with process and continuum.
Also, bear in mind that some posters may *actually* be immature. The forebrain keeps developing into the early twenties, I think. Maybe another poster with a background in neurology can jump in and help me here. In a textual environment, you can't know for sure how old a writer is; all you can do is make a best guess. I want any young people who may be reading and participating to stay and develop habits of critical inquiry. Just the fact of their presence here instead of on myspace or in front of a Nintendo is a good sign.
The best that we have to offer will ultimately be in the example that we set.
Javier:
Well there are several sites on the web that are better. Myself I have cut back and don't miss it at all.
One site I get a kick out of is CBC or www.cbc.ca/news you get the same stories as cd but remember this goes right across Canada not just a web site it is also a news station and regular station. Some stories have up to 1700 postings. Without the CBC Canada would have sent troops to Iraq for that illegal invasions that the US has paid a heavy price.
"for that illegal invasions that the US has paid a heavy price."
Well ... 1 Trillion dollars, 4000 dead marines, 1 Million dead Iraqis, 2 Million displaced Iraqis in exchange for control over half the oil in the middle east. And an american population thats so war crazed we are getting 8 more years of the same shit. What heavy price ? Its fun and games. Join the freak show or curl up and die. Its war time baby and mama palin's packin heat... yooohoooo !
Thank you I will check it out
Also, I think Chretien deserves credit for staying out of Iraq. We don't do regime change he said, and instantly gained my respect..............lizard
Thank-you....I joined and posted my first comment. So far I am very pleased by the postings.I like the recommend feature.It's fun........lizard
The Vietnamese War to help our little yellow friends was a splendid engagement.
We would have won except that the liberals and the left wing media prevented our marvelous victory.
Now we are repeating that dreadful error. At least McCain and Obama are not fooled by the mob in this country.
There is virtually no difference in the war plans of Obama/McCain those that think there is should explain it.