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Published on Thursday, July 15, 2010 by WKRG.com
BP's Live Stream From Sub at Oil Geyser Site
Watch live streaming video from wkrg_oil_spill at livestream.com
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Show AllDon't believe a word on the OIL DRUM SITE !!!!!
would an internal pipe cutter be helpfull?
The diamond blade circular saw/grinder they used to cut part of the riser would have worked fine (3-4 hours) if they had cut the bolts holding the two flanges together. They need to take the non containment thing off the top of the blowout preventor and cut the bolts that are holding the last of the riser pipe to the top flange of the blownout prvntr. Then put an open valve on with screw clamps. Once secure, shut the valve. Can anyone tell me why it is harder than that?(at least for the case of the top of the blownout blow out preventor which supposedly is where the majority of the oil is spewing from)
The would need to cut the flange bolts, plus cut the riser off once they try to remove the top half of the flange.
If you are going to do that; why not take the BOP off, and drag all the pipe out.
Go back in with a stinger on the bottom of a 36" plug, run on 21" pipe. (stinger guides the plug in the hole) The pipe has the valve up from the plug so when you pour cement on top, the valve remains above the sea surface. You need the valve to keep the pressure from building up while you are working on the well.
Once the cement sets you can close the valve.
The riser is the piece of pipe that was running between the drill ship and the top of the BOP. They cut the riser out of the way. The drill string would not be in the way since you could see that the cut they made included the drill string if it was present. Remove the last bit of the riser pipe that is connected by a flange with bolts to the top flange of the BOP then put on a valve. The BP executive Allen said: "...we want an absolute seal, where you put two pipes together with flanges, and you bolt it so there's absolutely no way where anything can escape." Why didn't they do that after they cut the broken riser out of the way? Instead of attaching a valve to the top of the BOP with bolts or clamps, they pushed an un-sealable steel housing which seems to be only pulling less than 10% of the oil from the BOP. To me it doesn't seem to have slowed the gusher by even that much.
Yes, especially if it's used to cut the pipeline of campaign contributions .....
It's still flowing ...
How ironic that this gov't, in its desire to appease big oil for the sake of its campaign contributions, and to recoup it's "royalties" (interesting term, don't you think?) from continued pumping, is perpetuating the non-healing of this open festering sore, that, with any kind of justice, will bring it down ....
It is never politically wise to allow the results of such unmitigated greed, as evinced by both political and private actors, to be continuously so obvious to so many ....
But then criminals are seldom wise ....
It is worse than ever now.
I think when they close the vents on the top Hat it increases the pressure and it starts to gush from the bottom of the Well head and maybe the Sea Floor.
Also there is a reported second leak that they must be hiding.
also hiding BP payoffs to US government:
http://www.truthout.org/bp-and-halliburton-
build-legal-teams-attempt-to-buy-off-government
-officials60165
Wow, another person who figured it out by simply doing the math and some common sense.
Good Job! I wish there were a few reporters out there unafraid to just do those numbers, and ask Gibbs the damn question.
A week into this, I did the per second breakdown of the 5,000 BPD NOAA estimate, which comes out to be 2.43 gallons per second, all leaks combined.
I was so shocked by how bloody obvious it was that the estimate just had to be wrong, and that was before the first video was released.
The latest estimates which you highlight are just as bogus, and the cap installed by BP probably isn't even collecting the amount of oil equal to the extra oil output that has resulted from them cutting the pipe.
What a phucked-up Administration.
Just pretend it's not happening, and it will go away.
This Son-of-an-Oil-Man is going to foul the whole Eastern Seaboard!
(Obama's Step Father was a Cheveron Executive).
What a bastard!
TJ
Sounds right.... with Oil and CIA in his background his class was in the same old Bush league for grooming Chiefs of the War Machine.
Yeah Jim,
Background is everything. If we are going to understand why certain bodies and individuals are committing treason against their own country and people, we have to follow their conditioning and exposure to easy money.
Obama is a Harvard University grad the same as GWB was. Both Obama and Bush's family were involved with banking; Obama through BIC Bank and the Bushes through hrough the Walker side of the family: Harriman Brothers which become Harriman and Brown which became KBR (Kellogg Brown and Root) when it merged with Haliburton. These are the biggest profiteers of the wars and why they will never end.
Is the CIA involved? Sure. Both Barry and GHWB (shrubs father) worked for known CIA front companies. As you already know, Barry worked for BIC Bank, a known CIA front company, and George H. W. Bush (Bush I, Sr.) was director of CIA under Ford and before that president of Zappata Petroleum a known CIA launching pad for the Bay of Pigs Invasion off Bush's Zappata oil platforms.
See:
http://planetliberty.wikidot.com/bush-crime-family
I'm sure there's a lot of chit we don't know connecting these Secret American Royalty all the way back to the Bank of England. I've found one historic connection with the Brown Brothers Harriman (Prescott Bush ran the Board of Directors) which had a brother William of the family who was a member of the Royal Family, IIRC.
The first American investment banker: Alex Brown, an English Linen Merchant of 1800 railroad banking fame had a son: William Brown who founded William Brown and Co. of Liverpool, England. He was knighted Sir William. Connections after that are hard to follow but they clearly lead to the biggest oil families of Texas.
The descendants of these early robber barons are the true "men behind the curtain" now.
All of the above are just my opinions only.
TJ
My family was pretty radical, and the crimes of this Skull and Bones/Bush circle for war profiteering is familiar to me.
It is all too much for this thread here, but anyone can look up what I witnessed on the Educational Forum's JFK assassination debate.
Baboon:
I think you are right about a gusher on the sea floor separate from the BOP gusher. Several friends of mine saw the same footage that you saw, although I was not watching at that time. Time will tell for sure.
The well has tapped into a vast reserve of oil and gas which some say may be 200 miles by 100 miles, meaning 20,000 sq. miles in size, although it may not be continuous. The pressures involved could be over 100,000 psi. The sea floor geology in that region is not solid rock, but a relatively soft formation.
It is entirely possible that the gas and oil coming up the hole drilled has so much pressure and volume that it has taken an alternate route through the sea floor.
This may be a primordial abiotic reserve from deep within the earth being more like volcanic magma than what is usually thought of as an oil reserve. The peak oil idea is a scam as there are huge quantities of hydrocarbons deep within the earth. Using abiotic oil science, the Russians now outproduce Saudi Arabia.
Regardless, the situation is much worse than anyone responsible is willing to admit, both BP and our criminal Federal government that allowed such risky drilling without meaningful regulation or safe standards. BOP technology is completely inadequate for what they are doing.
Deregulation of the financial industry gave us the biggest financial crimes in world history and now deregulation of Big Oil has given the world the greatest single environmental disaster in history.
$3 Trillion for Iraq to give Big Oil access to Iraqi oil.
$1 Trillion for Afghanistan and Big Oil pipeline plans.
And Now...$1 Trillion (or more) in damage for the Gulf.
Just put in on the card and let the next generation pay.
This whole thing is too horrific to comprehend.
When you put a cap or a plug on a leak and it doesn't stop the leak, then you take what didn't work back off and try again. Cut the bolts between the flanges on the top of the blowout preventor then you have a good flange to connect a valve onto, which you could then shut off. I know there are large gate valves that could be set in place by those rov's then tightened down with screw clamps. Once tightened, shut it off. Do they have some reason for not doing this?
Good idea.... according to scientists, they don't know the extant of the damage and are afraid the unknown added back pressure of a tight fix would blow out more, and if it blows out the sea floor around the well, it could release a volcano compared to a gusher.
I reason that is why they are closing the vents on the top hat so slowly now or maybe stopped closing them.?
That is just my guess... but if they had confidence in the condition of the well to double or triple the back pressure, if they could, why not try?
I think they are just playing for time until the relief well and that will be a wishing well or two.
I notice the video underwater feed has been dark for a while.
Because oil is lighter than water, the column in the pipe going up to the ship has less pressure at the wellhead than the surrounding water. Meaning any leaks at the wellhead will draw a vacuum if they can get enough oil in the pipe going to the ship. The pressure of the depths forces water into the pipe. Too much water will kill this effect as the column of water and oil going up the pipe increases in weight.
Yep, So who knows that the explosion or series of fissures in the Blowout could have Sea-water mixed in with the oil and gas too, much lighter than oil.... there are so many unknown variables here that it is all an experiment in Corporate Damage control and they got us suckered into their scam... our minds are being toyed with BP propaganda and government's inherent hostage to Corporate interests.
The pipes they used were not even up to gauge thickness to take that high pressure... the investigation is showing a circus of events that caused this.
Well see.... literally
now I see the video feed is back and it looks worse....
A tight fit would have happened if the BOP worked correctly. They didn't seem concerned about creating a pressure problem when they tried to make it work several times after the initial failure. Also, if anybody was worried about pressure build up from shutting down the flow from a well then blow out preventors wouldn't be used.
It's call the riser in the middle! Take the top flange off and you have more riser exposed!
Do you mean the drill string is still in the middle? A riser is the pipe that goes up to the surface from the top of the blow out preventor. It wouldn't matter if something was in the middle since a gate valve acts like a sluice type closing mechanism (compared to a ball or stop or butterfly valve).
Why not cut the bolts on the top flange of the BOP (which is now covered by the "containment" thing) in order to expose the good flange still connected to the top of the BOP. Then put an open, flanged gate valve on top of the BOP. Connect the valve in the open position with screw clamps or flange bolts. Then shut off the valve. Is there a reason this wouldn't work? Is it harder than basic pipefitting? I didn't look like it, but you really can't see anything since they put that non-containing (10% or less contained?)hunk of nothing onto that bald, badly cut pipe.
Get the top half off, and yes you could clamp another flange on top. How about the steel ring that seals it? It's got to fit in the groove for the flange to work.
Steel or rubber, it could be attached to the valve's flange with clips or integrated onto the flange itself. Screw clamp or bolt the whole thing down, turn it off, then clean up and go home. Connect a pressure relief valve with a riser pipe if you are worried about pressure build up (put a gauge or better yet a meter on the whole damn thing and start charging BP correctly).
It seems like standard operating procedure to me:
1. Cut the bad pipe out of the way. (yes)
2. Cut the bolts to remove flange connected to badly cut pipe.
3. Now place 20" gate valve in open position on top of good flange.
4. Bolt or Screw Clamp it tight.
5. Shut the valve. Check the gauge and the relief valve.
6. If OK, then go eat lunch.
I saw the same thing on one of the ROV cameras as Baboon last weekend. I saw a plume of oil gushing from what looked like a crater on the ocean floor. There was no pipe, no BOP , nothing - just a lot of oil (hard to judge the scale)
gushing straight from the ocean floor. I have not seen this since , nor have I seen it mentioned or discussed anywhere else but here - but I know what I saw. I think the government needs to take an independent look at what is really happening down there. I think this thing may be much bigger than anybody is letting on.
Yes, I saw it too.
That is my point on why they are playing with the pressure question... they saw that blowout from the floor too.
It looks bad but it's hard to really tell what is going on from those camera shots. We need a wider view too as there seems to be no scale to really take any account. No doubt this stuff is toxic. The local officials should be closing the beaches before they get sued as well as them suing BP.
check BP's site for an animation and video of what you are looking at:
http://bp.concerts.com/gom/lmrp6_060310.htm
http://bp.concerts.com/gom/successful_install_lmrp_cap_060510.htm
Notice that in the animation oil is flowing through vents at the top, not from around the bottom. And the rate of flow in the animation is much reduced.
In the video:
http://bp.concerts.com/gom/successful_install_lmrp_cap_060510.htm
Check out the flanges connected with black bolts on top of the blow out preventor, just below where most of the oil is spewing from. Cut those bolts with the diamond blade grinder or circular saw they first used to cut part of the riser(not the wire saw). Then, remove the top flange and connect an open, flanged, gate valve. Connect the valve to the remaining, good flange on top of the BOP with bolts or screw clamp bolts, then close it. Tell me why it won't work. An executive named Allen at BP said: "...we want an absolute seal, where you put two pipes together with flanges, and you bolt it so there's absolutely no way where anything can escape."--BP website
I can see it now. Sweet Christ.
USer: "Tell me why it won't work."
No could knows for sure what would happen with the scenario you have described, but in the past huge blowouts when sealed, have actually blown well casing and blowout preventers together right out of the sea floor through the water and into the sky.
Even if the BOP and casing were only destabilized by increased pressure and seepage, the flow would increase.
And then there is the issue of a gusher on the sea floor off to the side of the BOP location.
This is a monster. Even the secondary well they are drilling might not solve the problem.
The Coast Guard Obama spin guy just got caught on TV with his lies over the new flow rates. The Feds are representing BP and trying to reduce their liability.
I would expect the so called criminal and civil investigation by Obama's Holder will be designed to appear to be doing something while doing as little as possible and setting precedent to reduce BP's liability.
Then why did BP spend 3 days and several attempts to make the blow out preventor(BOP)work? Doesn't it function as a hydraulic powered gate vale? Why have a BOP at all if stopping the flow meant a more serious leak somewhere else? The explosion occurred on the drill ship from the gas/oil gusher, then the riser pipe fell from the ship and broke open but stayed connected to the BOP, and that is where BP says the majority of the oil is coming from. If the pressure were so huge then wouldn't it blow the containment cap off since it seems to only be sitting on top of the badly cut pipe above the top flange of the blow out preventor?
typo:
No one could know...
So, are the environmentalists still wackos and alarmists to the right wing controlled circles of Florida , now that your beaches , tourism, businesses, lively hoods and land values have been threatened by the very capitalistic drill baby drill solutions you were screaming for a few months ago.
But here is a solution for all right wing republican God and country crowd, just go church every Sunday and pray to your God that the oil does not end up on our beaches, and while your doing that ,, ask him if he will give back the leadership of our country to people who care about our future, and getting off oil by putting Americans to work manufacturing solar and wind technology products before the Chinese sink another 50 billion in investments for doing the same thing that we should have done 30 years ago.
Thats right , the Chinese have already committed over 50 billion in developing and manufacturing solar and wind technology.
It might be too late FOR THE USA TO compete in this arena , so I guess we will have to buy these products and be happy with just getting the installation and maintenance.
30 years too late , 50 billion short, and still the largest oil burning country in the world.
BRILLIANT LEADERSHIP PAID FOR BY BP,CHEVRON,EXON AND MOBIL.
I have posted these sources with other articles, but there are many new readers. The full articles are worth the read. Enjoy !
And nice post bornfreemen. The situation is so sick I have to laugh. Idiots, imbeciles and amoral morons run the corporations and Washington. All rotten to the core and corrupted by cash !
from: http://pesn.com/2010/05/23/9501654_Gulf_gusher_size/
Just how big is that gusher in the Gulf of Mexico?
"Many people have discussed the issue of simply closing the top of the well. This is the famous “Junk Shot” and many other solutions. It all sounds nice. Imagine 3 miles of oil coming at you at high velocity (Several miles per hour) and under this pressure. You slap the valve closed after the mud is out of the well and the ram force may well slam the well casing, BOP and all several miles into the sky. It has happened in the oil industry before. In Libya in the 1950’s it was actually photographed that at least a mile of well pipe and equipment on top was blown into the sky all at one time. At these pressures a well without mud is out of control. At the velocities of the oil coming up this well, there is a fair question if the mud can be successfully reinserted."
And:
from: http://pesn.com/2010/05/02/9501643_Mother_of_all_gushers_could_kill_Earths_oceans/
Mother of all gushers could kill Earth's oceans
"First, the BP platform was drilling for what they call deep oil. They go out where the ocean is about 5,000 feet deep and drill another 30,000 feet into the crust of the earth. This it right on the edge of what human technology can do. Well, this time they hit a pocket of oil at such high pressure that it burst all of their safety valves all the way up to the drilling rig and then caused the rig to explode and sink. Take a moment to grasp the import of that. The pressure behind this oil is so high that it destroyed the maximum effort of human science to contain it."
And the relief well could become another blowout as the BOP technology used in these situations is known to be inadequate.
From: http://www.alaskadispatch.com/projects/gulf-spill/5498-gulf-oil-spill-the-technology-oil-executives-dont-want-to-talk-about
Gulf oil spill: The technology oil executives don't want to talk about
"A mini-study done for the MMS in 2002 and a lengthy "Shear Ram Capabilities Study" completed two years later had concluded that some of the new higher-grade steel being used in drill pipe couldn't be cut and sealed by existing rams. The study also noted the inability of existing rams to cut and seal pipe if there were tools inside, or slice through welded joints where sections of pipe were joined.
These inherent weaknesses in existing blowout preventers were the reason many Arctic nations -- although not the U.S. -- required oil companies to keep a second drill rig on location when drilling in case a relief well was needed to seal a blowout. BP, it should be noted, did not have a second rig on site in the Gulf of Mexico."
The first link is from a software engineer? That's the expert? The second link is about the unreliability of the BOP to shear through the drill string. Neither says anything about the pressure being too high to shut off with a valve.
There is no "slamming" shut a gate valve, it gradually slides a large steel gate across the bore. Again if the pressure and "velocity" of the oil is that high why isn't the LMRP "containment" "cap" being blown off the top of the BOP? Why did they try to activate the BOP several times if it was going to make things worse?
I've seen higher velocity flow coming out of big pipes before and you might be amazed what thick steel valves can shut off and the pressures they can withstand. You could pipe up a valve with a pressure relief valve connected to it. That way, if the pressure did get too high you could relieve it. It seems to me (13 years as a pipefitter) that there are plenty of alternatives to letting the oil spew till fall.
That's the last anyone will have to hear from me on this.
Yes this isn't anything the top kill the magic pump the top hat the cone dressing the LRPM the LPRM the LMPR the MPLR all those have yet to be tried and failed we have many more efforts to undertake we will not be moved our representatives serve us well we are doing our level best and we only want the best for all look at our gusher and know all's well that caps badly or never our lawyers our press agents our people in the field our Obama your brains on oil derivatives sock puppeteer pundits consoling you or riling you up all the same remain asleep doing nothing we have it all under control you can't do anything anyway but we can which is nothing day after day and you like it if you only relax into it don't worry Obama is on it have a cocktail think about Mardi Gras or something throw a party it'll all work out and we'll profit from this just like we do in every disaster what do they call it disaster capitalism of yeah that's it how catchy pour me a double.
Good laugh Ephraim,
What was that anyway, George Orwell "Doublespeak"?
You forgot:
governor says come on down to Mississippi play some golf enjoy the beach catch a fish....
Good laugh Ephraim,
What was that anyway, George Orwell "Doublespeak"?
You forgot:
governor says come on down to Mississippi play some golf enjoy the beach catch a fish....
Good laugh Ephraim,
What was that anyway, George Orwell "Doublespeak"?
You forgot:
governor says come on down to Mississippi play some golf enjoy the beach catch a fish....
BP is claiming it is now capturing 10,000 BPD, and Chief Schmuck Thad Allen is so very happy to agree. In fact Thad thinks this represents real progress.
Anyone who has been watching this feed - comparing the flow before and after the 'cap' installation - can tell that the flow of oil gushing out of that well has not visibly diminished.
Now Thad is going to claim, that BP is capturing almost half of the oil since Thad's FRTG bogus estimate is at most 19,000 BPD.
Broken down into output per second, Thad would have you believe, that with BP siphoning oil from the gusher, that the video you are witnessing above is gushing only about 5 gallons per second.
Of course that is rubbish, but broken down, you can see just how ludicrous it is.
But no one in MSM, and in fact hardly anyone in left leaning media are going to go after this.
hue:
Obomber works for BP and Allen works for Obomber.
The discharge estimates will determine BP's pollution fines.
These folks are easy to understand. Just stretch you imagination and think of the most dishonest thing they could possibly do under the circumstances and that is more than likely their course of action in addition to acts of infinite stupidity.
I hear you, and well said. Even the so-called left media hasn't exactly been all over that very point. That the video feed from after the riser was cut, to after the cap was installed, shows NO visible difference in the amount of oil and gas gushing out.
The media, left and right, as allowed BP over the last week, to keep upping its claim (along with BP's Chief ___ sucker Thad Allen) of how much oil they are capturing, yet again, no discernible difference.
scribe: Same thoughts exactly.
It's like plumbers in your basement fixing a water leak by using a wet/dry vacuum, telling you they are going to be there till fall, and that you should be happy they are sucking up a tenth of the water that could be ruining your house, but you think they might even be lying about that.
I'm starting to wonder how much dispersant they are spewing into the oil stream from the "Dispersant Ops" ROV's we are getting close cropped video from now. Isn't that stuff more toxic than the oil? You could see the spray gun and something spraying out of the end before, now they have such a close up you can't see what the rov is holding or what is going on. (good work BP PR?) There was a good few minutes of video of the rov flying down to the bottom to pick up the sprayer.
Why don't they show the top of the "cap"? I have yet to tune in and see the "vents" at the top of this monstrosity. It looks like the same amount is coming out just as steady only from around the bottom. BP exec Allen had said they wanted a tight seal around the leak, so why aren't they doing that. This LMRP is not working, and I don't think we can wait till fall or have to.
Why not bolt down an open, 20" flanged gate valve on that blow out preventor, tighten it onto the existing flange of the BOP, and then shut the valve off?
(Don't tell me the pressure is too high because the flow rate I see there is not high pressure. If it was that "containment" "cap" wouldn't stand a chance. If you are worried about pressure build up, then connect a pressure relief valve as well, piped to the LMRP)
"Why not bolt down an open, 20" flanged gate valve on that blow out preventor, tighten it onto the existing flange of the BOP, and then shut the valve off?"
It is entirely possible there is such much oil and gas pressure that sealing the BOP and pipe could blow the pipe and preventer right out of the sea floor up through the water and into the sky. This has happened before with offshore wells.
At the very least sealing the BOP could rupture the pipe beneath assuming that has not already happened. The sea floor discharge that so many saw before it was censored is coming from somewhere beneath the BOP.
And it is anybody's guess what will happen with the so-called relief well.
If it is any consolation, shares of BP stock today reached a 14-year low, and still could plummet. Even though BP has deep pockets, investors are worried the company could go bankrupt. Good, bankrupt the greedy twits!!
That cap is bouncing around all over the place, which I haven't noticed such movement since it was installed.
The gushing oil seems to be at an even higher rate.
Could be, the innards of the BOP are breaking down.
You guys should all read this. Best, (and horrible) and most in-depth reporting I've seen on this catastrophe.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news
/17390/111965?RS_show_page=0
Why is it "offline"? Is CD's attention span as short as the public's?
I wish Common Dreams could put a link to this 'historical' thread, so it isn't necessary to scroll miles down twice to post a message relative to the current situation.
That current situation is, that the cap is off. Back to a fully gushing out of control well. Ostensibly, BP claims it is due to some accident by one of the robot subs, however, given that a few days ago, it has been confirmed that the entire 400, 50 ft high, BOP is leaning at twice the angle of the Tower of Pisa. BP is claiming that the riser has been leaning this whole time, should be taken not with a grain of sand, but with a barrel of oil. The leaning BOP could be indicative of an eroding seabed, which has been suspected for weeks now, because of the likelihood that the pipe casing below the BOP is ruptured and gas and oil has been eroding channels in the seafloor, which was the most plausible explanation as to why the Top Kill didn't work.
So, if indeed the leaning is a recent development, and direct evidence of the worst case scenario happening, it is likely the cap was intentionally removed as a desperate attempt to free up any downward pressure at all, so as to try to buy more time for the relief wells.
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/06/22/leaning-tower-oil/
One thing I just noticed, is the irregular edge of the pipe.