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Published on Saturday, October 31, 2009 by GRITtv
Phyllis Bennis: Israel Discourse Has Changed
Phyllis Bennis of the Institute for Policy Studies and the Transnational Institute wants politicians, particularly President Obama, to know that criticizing Israel is no longer political suicide. Despite Republican fearmongering, 78% of Jewish voters supported Obama, and the rise of the new, pro-peace J Street lobby, which held its first convention this week, did not happen in a vacuum.
The discourse, she notes, has changed and Americans no longer wholeheartedly support militaristic policies in Israel. There is room for debate on these issues, and politicians should fear hiding from it more than they fear addressing the issues.
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41 Comments so far
Show AllA voice for truth! Now, the myth of a two-state solution must also be exposed. The world cannot afford to have "Jewish" states or "Muslim" states or "Christian" states. Religious states are inherently anti-democratic. Furthermore, Israel is hiding behind the "Jewish" state in order to brand its critics as anti-semites whenever they criticize that state's policies. If Israel were simply a sectarian state, any criticism of it would be simply that--criticism of a state. Just as we criticize China, India, or Russia, we should also be able to criticize Israel without the anti-semitism smoke screen. Israel gets a lot of mileage out of its Jewish statehood, and then uses it to perpetuate war crimes around the world. A one-state solution, with all religions equally respected and all ethnicities having equal rights, will be the only hope for peace and justice in the Middle East.
"donna"
You make a point that I would wish to elaborate upon.
But for sake of argument I would propose that what you term as 'religious state'.
These entities you write of are simply 'plutocratic oligarchy dressed in robes', in every single case they also represent the 'Patriarch v Matriarch' conflict that monotheism promotes.
According to the current scientific evidence, members of The "Jewish State' of Israel, are 99.9% related to their Palestinian 'hosts'--.
The "Jews" being monotheistic hold themselves to be the 'Chosen ones' (actually a very old hunter gatherer concept, and in most 'tribal languages' the 'tribal name' refers to the members calling themselves 'the people' or 'the human beings' or some other distinction---my own Tribe is as guilty as any other in that regard.)
The "Jews" are no more a 'chosen people' than any others they simply have been able to convince themselves and a few others of the 'myth'. While they have been very good at helping to create the "Plutocratic Oligarchy" over the centuries, they as the others who would control it, often 'loose it for awhile' only to pick it back up again. The Holocaust of WWII is an example of the 'Jewish PO' loosing control, for awhile,but then now they have it and they are of course using it---and abusing it. They are being financed in a major part by another 'nation of chosen one's P.O.'---who make the Jews of the old Testament and now look like amateurs in the area of Genocide,War Crimes, broken promises and blind stupid greed---the USA. In fact if not for the USA modern Israel would simply be 'a dream in the minds' of the "wandering jews'". (Makes you wonder about a 'God' that 'needs so much help' from a nation of liars, thieves,bandits and mass murderers---the USA).
If humanity can get past the myths of a "God"---and put that stupidity behind them, the excuses of so many others in the past and present for their abuses upon others----will fall away. If humanity can keep from blowing itself and most of the other life forms into 'cosmic dust', they may last longer.
One thing is for sure, science having recently 'destroyed' the 'current definition' of 'race'---with facts; it is only a matter of time where they can do the same for the 'God Myth'----
"If Israel were another nation the USA would invade Israel to keep the world safe; and they would be justified."
donna November 1st, 2009 9:46 am
"The world cannot afford to have "Jewish" states or "Muslim" states or "Christian" states."
Or Palestinian states?
"Palestinian" isn't a religion. I think the point being made was an objection to theocracy. Or theocratic purity. Anyway "Palestinian" is a catch-all label applied by Israelis to "other-fy" (sorry, a real word escapes me just now) indigenous, who are ethnically more diverse than that term would indicate. This makes bigotry much easier.
Yes, of course there are Palestinians, but it's an ethnic-local identity not a religious one. Maybe something about having lived in Palestine for 7000 years uninterrupted....
Tell that to the Kurds...
You're clearly confused.
Judaism was never an "ethnicity". Zionism, which is a 20th century ideology, perverted Judaism so as to turn it into an ethnic-like collective.
As for your assertion that "in the US being Jewish first and foremost means following Judaism", that is absolutely not the case. The vast majority of Jews in the US see themselves as Zionists first.
The small number of Jews who practice Judaism in the theological sense don't view Israel or Zionism as something holy like Zionists often do. And those are the Jews who are truly Jewish for they follow the Torah, not Hertzel's manifesto.
I'm a pro Israeli Jew. I join Phyllis Bennis in speaking the truth. I support Israel's right to exist along side of a separate Palestinian state. But the Apartheid policies of the Israeli right are suicidal. Settlements on the West Bank must end or be relocated within Israel proper. Jews and Palestinians must learn to live in peace and mutual respect.
Shach, your words bring tears to my eyes. I learned about peace from Jews, and, for the last eight years I have wondered why my Jewish friends, especially in the states, have been afraid to speak out about the horrors of the right wing in Israel, as if Israel were somehow different from the rest of the world with respect to those who exercised brutal punishment to those who had little power. If Israeli Jews can't figure out that it is their peace loving people who must lead the way, what can be left? Netanyahu and Likkud, and Hillary, especially Hillary, are not helping anyone and the scars they are leaving will only wreak more chaos on all the people around them. Israel can still prove itself to be the leaders in the desert, instead of simply postponing the day when the entire world looks at them as the ogres they seem to be now.
...................................
ILLEGITIMATE, ILLEGITIMATE , ILLEGITIMATE:
israel HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST
...................................
http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/10/16/alan-hart-israels-right-or-not-to-exist-the-facts-and-truth/#...
By Alan Hart
On Monday 12 October, Prime Minister Netanyahu opened the Knesset's winter session by blasting the Goldstone Report that accuses Israel of committing war crimes and vowing that he would never allow Israelis be tried for them. But that was not his main message. It was an appeal, delivered I thought with a measure of desperation, to the "Palestinian leadership", presumably the leadership of "President" Abbas and his Fatah cronies, leaders who are regarded by very many if not most Palestinians as American-and-Israeli stooges at best and traitors at worst.
Netanyahu again called on this leadership to agree to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, saying this was, and remains, the key to peace. And he went on and on and on about it.
"For 62 years the Palestinians have been saying ‘No' to the Jewish state. I am once again calling upon our Palestinian neighbors – say ‘Yes' to the Jewish state. Without recognition of the Israel as the state of the Jews we shall not be able to attain peace… Such recognition is a step which requires courage and the Palestinian leadership should tell its people the truth – that without this recognition there can be no peace… There is no alternative to Palestinian leaders showing courage by recognizing the Jewish state. This has been and remains the true key to peace."
As Ha'aretz noted in its report, Netanyahu's demand for Palestinian acceptance of Israel as a Jewish state is for him "a way on ensuring recognition of Israel's right to exist as opposed to merely recognizing Israel" (my emphasis). This, as Ha'aretz added, is the recognition which Netanyahu and many other Israelis see as the real core of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
In the name of pragmatism, willingness to "merely to recognize" Israel – meaning to accept and live in peace with an Israel inside its pre-June '67 borders – has long been the formal Palestinian and all-Arab position. Why does it stop short of recognizing Israel's "right to exist", and why, really, does it matter so much to Zionism that Palestinians recognize this right?
The answer is in the following.
According to history as written by the winner, Zionism, Israel was given its birth certificate and thus legitimacy by the UN Partition Resolution of 29 November 1947. This is propaganda nonsense.
In the first place the UN without the consent of the majority of the people of Palestine did not have the right to decide to partition Palestine or assign any part of its territory to a minority of alien immigrants in order for them to establish a state of their own.
Despite that, by the narrowest of margins, and only after a rigged vote, the UN General Assembly did pass a resolution to partition Palestine and create two states, one Arab, one Jewish, with Jerusalem not part of either. But the General Assembly resolution was only a proposal – meaning that it could have no effect, would not become policy, unless approved by the Security Council.
The truth is that the General Assembly's partition proposal never went to the Security Council for consideration. Why not? Because the U.S. knew that, if approved, it could only be implemented by force given the extent of Arab and other Muslim opposition to it; and President Truman was not prepared to use force to partition Palestine.
So the partition plan was vitiated (became invalid) and the question of what the hell to do about Palestine – after Britain had made a mess of it and walked away, effectively surrendering to Zionist terrorism – was taken back to the General Assembly for more discussion. The option favored and proposed by the U.S. was temporary UN Trusteeship. It was while the General Assembly was debating what do that Israel unilaterally declared itself to be in existence – actually in defiance of the will of the organized international community, including the Truman administration.
The truth of the time was that the Zionist state, which came into being mainly as a consequence of pre-planned ethnic cleansing, had no right to exist and, more to the point, could have no right to exist UNLESS … Unless it was recognized and legitimized by those who were dispossessed of their land and their rights during the creation of the Zionist state. In international law only the Palestinians could give Israel the legitimacy it craved.
And that legitimacy was the only thing the Zionists could not and cannot take from the Palestinians by force.
No wonder Prime Minister Netanyahu is more than a little concerned on this account.
Israel's leaders have always known the truth summarized above.
It's time for the rest of the world to know it.
.
[But the Apartheid policies of the Israeli right are suicidal.]
Both the left and right in Israel fully support apartheid policies. Every Israeli government has expanded the settlements. Israel is an apartheid state just like South Africa was. The only just and sustainable resolution is to readmit the Palestinians to humanity and their homeland.
The Zionists used European guilt for the Holocaust to extort Israel's 'right to exist as a Jewish state' from the UN after WW II. There may be some question as to the extent of that terrible guilt, google holohoax 101 for a different perspective.
"Jews and Palestinians must learn to live in peace and mutual respect"
shach November 1st, 2009 10:20 am
=========================================================
It's not about learning to live together in peace!!!!!
Before that happens:
Jews MUST give ALL the STOLEN land of PALESTINE to it's RIGHTFUL OWNERS, the PALESTINIANS
ALL Palestinian refugees MUST be allowed back HOME
You do that, then come and talk to us about living together in peace
GIVE JUSTICE GET PEACE
Is it that hard to comprehend this simple equation !!??
.
I am a pro-Jewish, anti-Zionist critic of Israeli policies of aggression, oppression, and expansion. While the US and UK have some economic and military power left, the two of them who created Israel and sponsored Israel's expansion and illegalities should force a two-state solution. The window of opportunity is closing. Not too far into the future, the US and UK will be shadows of themselves, and will no longer be giving the weapons, money, and political protection that have made Israeli what it is: a rogue nation with an arrogance all out of proportion to its real resources.
Separation of church and state is the law of the land here and it should be a requirement of any country that receives U.S. aid of any kind. Discrimination is inherent in a religious state. In Israel, separation of synagogue and state holds the most hope for peace.
THE CALL FOR A TWO STATE SOLUTION IS TOO LITTLE TOO LATE:
One must question the morality and ethical grounds upon which “Israel” was founded.
When the Zionists adopted Palestine as a home land for all the Jewish people they ignored the fact that Palestine had already its own native Palestinian inhabitants, with a very small Jewish minority of 2.5%.
The early Jewish refugees did not come with olive branches in their hands; rather they came with tanks and machine guns, they engaged in extensive terror attacks on the native Palestinians, they were building their armed forces ever since until it became the forth most powerful state in the world today.
Israel’s recognition as a state (by the United Nations and the International community) was conditional to Israel abiding by UN resolutions including the right of return of Palestinians; which were never implemented by Israel.
And as we have seen from Alan Hart's article: "the General Assembly's partition proposal never went to the Security Council for consideration..... while the General Assembly was debating what do that Israel unilaterally declared itself to be in existence – actually in defiance of the will of the organized international community, including the Truman administration......the partition plan was vitiated (became invalid)"
The other extremely serious implication of asserting “Israel’s” right to exist as a Jewish state, next to a Palestinian state, is that the Palestinians must give up completely on their right of return; because if that right was to be implemented, It will spontaneously erode “Israel” as a purely Jewish state, and that would contradict the precondition of Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state.
The continuous existence of such a state (as defined by the hegemony of one particular group “the Jewish” over the rest of its citizens) is morally unacceptable; as by definition “”Israel” is a Jewish state; in order to maintain its exclusive “Jewishness” it denies millions of exiled Palestinians the right of return to their homes and their families ignoring their basic human rights.
When Hitler called for a purely Arian state the world got up in arms against such an exclusive racists regime.
How can such a state demand the right be recognized and to be secured when the very foundation on which it was established are immoral? How such a state should continue to exist when by its very definition it is insular, exclusive, and racist?
This entity that was established by TERROR, sustained by TERROR, and can only exist by practicing barbaric acts of TERROR
This zionist entity was established on the ruins of 531 annihilated towns and villages, and built-up on the flesh, blood and bones of hundreds of thousands of innocent murdered people, and maintained by the agony of millions of refugees who still languish in refugee camps in Gaza and elsewhere
This ILLEGAL entity has NO RIGHT TO EXIST in a world that aspires for peace and justice
As a Palestinian I assert:
There is no other solution for the restoration of peace and justice, than the reinstatement of PALESTINE, the return to pre 1948, and the return of ALL Palestinian refugees
If that should mean an end to a RACIST EXCLUSIVE Jewish state so be it.
.
nahida November 1st, 2009 12:48 pm
"THE CALL FOR A TWO STATE SOLUTION IS TOO LITTLE TOO LATE....
As a Palestinian I asser-"
Nah - Palestinians want Israel to get out of the West Bank and split Jerusalam.
You're not a Palestinian.
On 10/28/09, The Daily Show with Jon Stewart did what the mainstream media has failed to report about-the rapidly growing global nonviolent solidarity movement of resisters to the occupation of Palestine, by hosting a Palestinian politician and American Jewish scholar and activist author.
The News Media should be interviewing Dr. Mustafa Barghouti & Anna Baltzer, Jon's job is to entertain us, but once again, he lead the mainstream media to where many of US already are.
Jon also performed under duress from 'friends' who put him under pressure to censor the highly anticipated appearances of Dr. Barghouti and Baltzer. As of this writing on October 31, 2009, The Daily Show forum conversation regarding the BB show has attracted 21,059 reads to its first page and over 500 messages.
One of mine says:
The morning after Anna Baltzer wrote:
Dear friends,
Last night Dr. Barghouti and I were on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart talking about Palestine.
The show was overwhelmed with angry emails and phone calls prior to the appearance, and up until the last minute it seemed like they might cancel. During the taping the show had its only heckler in 11 years. The entire staff were very nervous and may come to regret the monumental decision (and not make it again) as they will surely be inundated now that the show has aired...
Regardless of the cuts, this was a huge step for the movement (and Dr. Barghouti's left-in parts were excellent, in my opinion). If you agree, do make your letters positive, even if you decide to mention the disappointing discrepancy between the full interview and what was aired…I believe the interview wouldn't have happened 3 years ago. Times are changing. Keep on keepin' on...Anna
An audience member at the taping of the show wrote:
Jon Stewart made it clear to the audience that he was UNDER TONS OF PRESSURE. Lots of his pro-Israeli friends [called] up and were trying to force the cancellation of the show.
But Jon stood tall and allowed the show to be taped; HOWEVER...
http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1473&Itemid=225
Yeah, Harriet Beecher Stowe was a "liar" too - "Uncle Tom's Cabin - Life Among the Lowly" didn't happen as she wrote.
Too bad her lies became the best selling novel of the 19th century, and influenced how people looked at slavery after that. I hope the lies of Anna Baltzer and Barbara Lubin don't change how people look at the wonderful conditions in Gaza.
Here's a nice counterweight to the street legends of Gaza:
HUMAN RIGHTS IN PALESTINE AND OTHER OCCUPIED ARAB TERRITORIES
Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf
I'm sure millions are interested in the *facts*, just like the people that welcomed the facts about slavery in "Aunt Phillis's Cabin; Southern Life As It Is".
Snatch,
Listen and listen carefully, I have dealt with a good number of trolls like you and your whoring is transparently obvious. Your trolling here is not welcomed. Your perversion of facts and reality is disgusting and your arguments are horrid. So take a hike and never come back. You got that?
Regarding J-Street: Martin Luther King stated the problem well in his letter, From A Birmingham City Jail:
"The Negro's greatest stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to ‘order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice."
J-Street proposes the usual "two-state solution" which has been floated for years in the so-called "peace process" which has gotten nowhere - for good reason. The two-state model is one of segregation, ignores the question of equality, recommends a "negotiated settlement" of the refugee question and settlements rather than compliance with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and multiple UN resolutions, implies a symmetry in negotiating power that grossly misrepresents reality, and would leave the apartheid system within Israel unchanged. This two-state model would also threaten the 20% Palestinian/Israeli citizens who are viewed as a fifth column and have over 20 laws discriminating against them. They would face involuntary "transfer" to the new state-let, contributing to Israel's on-going strategy of nishul, Hebrew for displacement.
Any “two-state solution” for the Israel/Palestine impasse based on the Geneva Initiative is deceptive in intent, projecting an image of fairness while designed to protect Israel from its perceived, “demographic, existential threat” by preserving a Jewish majority. It is unfortunate that many Israelis, including most of the so-called "Israeli Left" and Israel supporters in the U.S. see legal equality in the Holy Land the same way as the racist white supremacists/segregationalists of our own Jim Crow south.
Israel has long hoped to isolate Palestinians within an Israeli-approved mini-state with limited autonomy and to forever deny their U.N.-declared right of return to their homes. The words justice and equality are conspicuously absent from proposed two-state solutions, and, as our own Supreme Court determined, separate is never equal.
One often hears the racist proposal that Palestinian refugees could "be absorbed by other Arab countries” (as though all Arabs are culturally interchangeable) These refugees are Israel’s responsibility alone, and return to their stolen homes was a condition of Israel’s 1949 admittance to the U.N., which they have never honored.
The "population exchange" myth is another Israeli attempt to negate the right of return for the Palestinian people. Most emigration by Jews from Arab countries was voluntary and in response to Zionist recruitment and false-flag operations to encourage immigration to Israel. Expulsions of small Jewish populations in Arab countries were in direct response to the Zionist onslaught in Palestine as Jews and Muslim/Christian Arabs are not historic enemies. Egypt, Iraq and Morocco have publicly invited return of former Jewish citizens.
Instead of J-Street, consider supporting the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network (www.ijsn.net)the U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation (www.endtheoccupation.org) and Zochrot (http://www.zochrot.org/) an Israeli organization dedicated to the right of return, one democratic state, and an end to Nakba denial and memoricide.
Excellent commentary!
"memoricide" - there's a good, Orwellian word.
Hasbara classes any one ??
You can get them free, on line, now :-)
http://www.israelactivism.com/training
Just watch how they train their hasbara soldiers to lie, and lie and lie even more, until it seeps out of their ears and noses!!
*********************
Truth and lies
Lies like to be groomed
To be prepared in advance
They are artificially manufactured
Laughable, not in a funny way
Incoherent, pitiable and frail
Unpleasant to the ear as much to the heart
...
Truth however, is spontaneous
Honest and natural
Breathtaking with its splendour
Like a waterfall;
It flows gracefully from the heart
Needs no training for her to shine
Powerful, relentless, elegant and beautiful
Alhamdulillah
.
This is what Jonathan Tasani had to say on the issue on DemocracyNow! on Friday:
JONATHAN TASINI: Sure. Let me start with my personal connection to this. I am a Jew. My father was born in what was then Palestine and fought in the underground, the Haganah. I lived in Israel for seven years. Half my family was from there. I have family members who have been killed, both in wars and in, if you will, terrorism, in civilian attacks in that conflict. And for that reason, I have—and I was involved in the—then the peace movement in Israel in the 1970s, which was then very, very small. And for that reason, I have been a very, very strong supporter of a two-state solution. We have to have—the Palestinians must have justice, and it is good for Israel to have a strong Palestinian state that is secure, that is independent and that is thriving.
J Street was started because, for too long, American policy has been influenced by AIPAC, and legislators across the political spectrum have been forced to, I think, see a one-sided solution to that. And J Street, I think, is—will be effective. Its notion is that—its goal is to bring about a two-state solution. And I’m very optimistic. It was huge energy in that room. There were over 1,500 people that came from all across the country. There was a lot of excitement that finally there will be a voice that will contest that—what I think is a wrong and very small-minded approach to the solution in the Middle East.
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/10/30/tasini
J Street is just another wing of AIPAC. The Zionists like to define the bounds of the discussion and then to dominate the entire spectrum of allowed discourse. The best example is Tikkun, representing the really far 'left' wing in AIPAC's allowed spectrum of discourse. Democracy Now favors the left wing of Zionism, and is sham critical of the right wing, but you'll never see a non-Zionist on the show. It's difficult to think of any media or political figure who is not a Zionist. Pat Buchanan? Paul Craig Roberts? Maybe. Definition: a Zionist is someone who supports the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, that is, who supports the two-state solution.
J Street just threw the Goldstone report under the bus because they didn't have the courage or the will to do so.
J Street is a diversion aimed at muzzling all those well-meaning morally outraged individuals.
So, instead of wasting time and energy working with or supporting J Street, join the global Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement.
It doesn't require anything more than boycotting Israeli companies and products.
It's that simple.
Exactly!
I have always felt JStreet was rather reactionary.
And a two state solution? Please......
This one here makes a good point and brings in J Street as well-- right on the mark!
AD
The far right's stranglehold on American politics is loosening, little by little. Which is why we are seeing so much hysterics from the far right. (What's more the entertainment news media sees all this as enlivening their nightly shows.)
The far right is proving that it has much to fear in Obama, who, simply by being rational and sane, is a great threat to them. Their best hope is that his administration will be a catastrophe. They are not doing much to conceal this is their great hope by being "the party of no."
Well, what does the White House know that the rest of us don't know? That regarding the "Lobby" it's still business as usual? They appear to be behaving that way, conceding continued settlements to Likud while "negotiating" for peace. The Palestinians understand all this quite well. While negotiations continue, and time passes, the Israelis can steal more land. So who's laughing up who's sleeve?
But Obama's comparative "rationalism" will eventually wear the Lobby's influence away. As well as the giddier aspects of the American far right's fantasy world. Is it that the administration doesn't have confidence in this outcome? Or is it that they fear immediate repercussions from the Lobby? And still fear the Lobby's power? Or are there powerful spokespersons for the Lobby in the White House?
What has obama done? I don't quite understand your position here.
I guess i am sensing that you are possibly implying that obama is a great and noble human being, and anything untoward that happens while he is president, can't possibly be because of what he is truly about.
I aplogize if i misrepresented your position. Honestly. I am just so tired of this man being a big projection screen who never needs to pony up to a darn thing. He has more teflon than reagan had!
Good luck with UN votes if the US decides to withdraw its unconditional support - Iran and Cuba aren't the only countries that can be strangled by "sanctions".
If the US stops giving foreign aid to Israel, and as you suggest, *all* countries, to save money for health care, then the American Century is over. Don't expect the US to further anger its international trading partners to protect Israel with UN vetoes and Congressional votes on UN reports (like the Goldstone report) once it has to worry about new superpowers like China and the European Union. You can only be an @$$hole when you are overwhelmingly rich and powerful, not when you are competing for contracts and income in a new economic order.
Do not engage the troll snatch. Ignore it.
Speak for yourself, haircut.
Future US support for Israel in the UN is very much on topic when talking about Phyliss Bennis and Israel. Read her book "Challenging Empire: How People, Governments, and the UN Defy U.S. Power" (Interlink Publishing, October 2005)