BLITZER:
Because I remember, [Cheney] was the defense secretary during the first Gulf
War. I was the Pentagon correspondent. And there -- afterwards, for a long time,
throughout the '90s, he strongly defended that decision to liberate
Kuwait and then stop -- not
go all the way to Baghdad to get rid of Saddam
Hussein.
So what
changed in his mind, because he and Colin Powell were -- who was chairman of the
Joint Chiefs, as you remember -- pretty much strongly opposed that throughout
the '90s?
HAYES:
You're right. Vice President Cheney gave a speech when he was finishing up his
term as secretary of defense in 1992 in Seattle in which he walks through the
reasons, very carefully, very meticulously, why.
BLITZER:
Because he was criticized for that.
HAYES: He
was criticized for it. At the time, there were a lot of second-guessers saying
we should have gone. We should have removed Saddam Hussein
--
BLITZER:
Finish the job, yes.
HAYES: --
when we had the opportunity. And he was arguing for a limited
mission.
BLITZER:
So what changed?
HAYES: I
think September 11th changed him. The nature of the threat
--
BLITZER:
But did he really believe that Saddam Hussein and the Iraqis had anything to do
with 9-11?
HAYES:
I think initially that, you know, he and the
president both thought there was a possibility that Saddam Hussein had had some
role in the September 11th attacks. But, really, beyond that, it was more this
broad threat of Iraq, on the one hand, a state that he thought -- and pretty
much everybody thought -- had weapons of mass destruction, and these terrorist
groups that were, in some cases, had overlapping relationships with Saddam and
his intelligence -- and his intelligence
services.
BLITZER:
So it's fair to say he was pretty much
surprised at all the post-mortems that have done -- that have occurred in more
recent years, that there was no Saddam connection to 9-11, no weapons of mass
destruction?
A
lot of the stuff that's come out pretty much, I assume, in the conversations you
had with him, he acknowledged that he was pretty much
surprised.
HAYES:
Yes. I think he -- you know, he, like
everybody else, or most everybody else, thought certainly that we'd find
stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction. So I think it's fair to say that that
was a surprise.
BLITZER:
And does he look back and try to, you know, get some lessons learned from his
own involvement?
Because
as you point out in the book, and as others have pointed out, he was deeply
involved in all the details going into the war and the immediate
aftermath.
HAYES:
Yes, he said that to me, actually. I put that exact question to him. And he
said, you know, one of the lessons here is not to underestimate this kind of an
undertaking, which is, you know, a tacit admission that they did underestimate,
in certain respects, what would be needed to keep Iraq
together.
BLITZER:
The book is entitled Cheney: The Untold
Story of America's Most Powerful and
Controversial Vice President.
The
author, Steve Hayes.
Thanks
for coming in, Steve.
HAYES:
Thanks for having me.
###