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Highly Radioactive Concrete Is Latest Scare for Fukushima Survivors
Radiation fears have since become part of daily life in Japan
The Japanese government announced today that radioactive concrete has been used to construct new apartment buildings in the Fukushima Prefecture, housing evacuees from a town near the site of the multiple nuclear plant meltdowns.
NHK/Screenshot NHK (the Japan Broadcasting Company) is reporting Monday:
The Japanese government is investigating the distribution of crushed stones that may contain radioactivity from the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. It has found that concrete made of the stones has been sold to more than 200 firms.
The probe comes after radioactive cesium was detected in a new apartment building in Nihonmatsu, Fukushima Prefecture where the concrete was used. Readings of up to 1.24 microsieverts per hour have been recorded inside the building which is higher than outside.
“We thought we could finally settle here. I have no words,” said a resident, who told broadcaster NHK she moved to the apartment with her husband and young children, to escape radiation. “I just feel so awful for my kids. I feel like I’ve failed as a parent.”The gravel comes from a quarry in Namie that was designated as an evacuation zone in April.
The quarry operator says it shipped more than 5,000 tons of crushed stones to 19 firms in the weeks after the accident. The government has set no limit on radiation in stones and sand used for construction even after the nuclear accident.
The company president told reporters on Monday that he never imagined that stones from his quarry would cause such a problem and that he wants to apologize to residents of the building for their exposure to radiation.
The economy ministry says 2 of the 19 firms sold concrete made of the stones to more than 200 companies. It believes that the concrete was used in housing construction and on roads.
And Japan's Kyodo news service reports:
FUKUSHIMA — High levels of radiation have been detected on the first floor of a newly built condominium complex in Nihonmatsu, Fukushima Prefecture, the municipal government said.
The quarry operator says it shipped more than 5,000 tons of crushed stones to 19 firms in the weeks after the accident. NHK/ScreenshotCrushed stones used in the building's concrete foundation came from the exclusion zone around the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant, local government officials said.
A quarry firm said Monday it shipped some 5,280 tons of crushed stones from Namie, Fukushima Prefecture, to 19 contractors after the nuclear crisis started last March 11, including some 1,065 tons distributed to a concrete maker that provided the material for the Nihonmatsu building's foundations. [...]
The city conducted the checks after a junior high school girl living on its first floor logged an exposure reading of 1.62 millisieverts during a three-month period from September, the local authority said.
Agence France-Presse reports:
NHK/ScreenshotJapan's government was Monday investigating how an apartment had been built with radioactive concrete in the latest scare from the country's ongoing nuclear crisis.
Radiation levels of up to 1.24 microsieverts per hour were recorded in the building in Nihonmatsu, Fukushima, 55 kilometres (35 miles) from the crippled power plant, local authorities said Sunday. [...]
Radiation fears have since become part of daily life in Japan after cases of contaminated water, beef, vegetables, tea and seafood were discovered.
The government has consistently been at pains to stress the lack of an "immediate" health risk, but has been faced by scepticism from the public.
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79 Comments so far
Show AllNothing to see here folks! Let me run some numbers, see, your odds of being killed by this concrete fade into the background of your statistical odds of dying from a hundred other things, so i can play a game of "pretend this ongoing spread of radioactive materials is virtually safe!"
Then i can take it to the next level and play a game of "you are a bunch of alarmist and hysterical fear-mongers!" (Of course i'm not speaking face to face with anyone actually exposed to this concrete...)
See, reasonable rational people frankly celebrate the "good news" as industrial accidents spread radioactivity through our environment. In my book you've got two options: You can be a reasonable rational person, or you can be an alarmist and hysterical fear-monger. (Like those Japanese businessmen who apologize for spreading this stuff: Irrational fear-mongers! Why would they think they have anything to apologize for?)
But if i DID play these games, i would not then have the GALL to claim that i am an OPPONENT of nuclear power. "We who oppose nuclear power..." Whoops! Did i say that?
I do believe one such as you have described that plays that game has shown up here ~web~... He's a very serious player too.
@ "The government has consistently been at pains to stress the lack of an "immediate" health risk."
Immediate? __ How abut after ten months?
"Highly Radioactive" vs. "no immediate health risk". Too simple on both sides of the debate, when neither explains what sort of risks are involved and with what incidence rate. It would be helpful to the people involved to know specifically what the numbers are.
One corrective action, other than condemnation of the building, would be to disallow occupancy on the ground floor or put a 1"-2" thick sheet of lead over that floor which would cut the exposure rate by a factor of 10-100X. The graphic accompanying the text shows the dose rates on the second and third floor to be 1/3 to 1/10 that on the ground floor. So between shielding and occupancy control it could be ameliorated.
Mr. ~RFinston~ is thare any danger to people if they should inhale or injest any cesium 137 or Pu isotopss that exist in the air, soil, water, or food they consume. How many isotopes of such radioactive poisons woud be harmful,, two,, ten,, twenty, a hundred,, or more? ... Less than a hundred? ... How many less?__ I am certain with your vast knowledge of radiation hazards you could tell us.
Your amazing and thought provoking suggestion of putting a layer of lead on the first floor of the buildings is a very interesting thought,, an incredible thought actually, something I never would have considered., but then I'm not real smart like you are.
Perhaps the Japanese government could put a 1" to 2" inch think layer of lead over the entire contaminated land areas in Japan and the buildings roof tops, etc.?
WayneWR, this is an off-topic/facetious question, and you very well know that and nontheless persist in your cynical repetition of it. You've asked/I've answered many times. You seem to know the answer you are looking for to your own satisfaction, so I won't take your 'bait'.
As to your idea of covering the land areas with lead, that of course is impractical as you recognize. But when you have a fixed souce of contamination in concrete flooring of a new multi-story building it would be worth investigating that alternative. The government is gearing-up to decontaminate the dirt in the exclusion zone using high-tech machinery.
Discussing inhaled or injested human created, deadly radioactive poisons, which come from nucler power plants is an "off-topic/facetious" question?
What!!! Of topic to whom? __ I certaily did not expecct you to answer such questions, but rather hoped you would do so and post some of your incredible information that such poisons are not a health hazard.
Yeah, sure, the Japanese are going to "de-contaminate" their country, all of the mountain forests, the water, the crop lands, the roads and houses, the office building's roof tops, etc... Uh-huh... Are they going to "de-contaminte" the ocean waters' too? __ How about here in North America, are they going to come here and decontaminate?
Oh,,, that isn't a question.. And how about the rest of the hundreds of tons of concrete which has been used by 200 companies? They don't purchase it to look at it.
Your "lead" bull is what is OFF topic Mr. RFinston..
There are trillions of cesium 137 and plutonium isotopes all over Japan and far beyond from the melted down nuclear plant and it's not just in concrete.. It's in the air, in the soil and in the food and water. So talking about it is very relivent.
Of course you claim there is NO danger of anyone inhaling or injeting those deadly isotoes of human created poisons... You are not being very polite either...
Cesium elsewhere is relevant but not to this news item; You'll get your chance later I am certain. And there you go again quoting me out of context in your persistent misleading manner. I won't call it lying if that makes you feel better.
I appreciate you don't term me a liar... And I do not find it necessary to term you a liar, as your posted comements here for the past 10 months are self evident.
you would need 4 inches of lead per floor (2 on the top of the floor and 2 underneath) every inch would increase the loading on the floor by some 2.75 kPa (4 inches would yield 11kPa)-- and the floors are likely only designed to carry 5 kPa live load so while shielding may would work to reduce the radiation risk, the building would be under designed structurally. Considering the not so insignificant earthquake risk in the area, reducing the FoS by 2.0 wouldn't be a good idea.
nope, they gotta jackhammer the foors out and replace them or just board the place up and start over.
you have to cover both surfaces of the floor -- the radiation also goes down, the first floor is the basement's ceiling too-- so if 2 inches are needed to shield, then it is 4 inches total. if no one ever goes into the basement you could leave it off, but that is still a lot of extra load for a slab.
this is the problem with their (the Japanese govt) attempting to ignore/downplay the issue. if they had just required all product exported from the contaminated areas be tested, then this aggregate would have been stopped, the building would be fine, and people would have a place to live. Now they have to face the prospect of demolishing a perfectly good structure. its not like they don't know where the contamination is. it is in the big pink swath shown here plotted using their data:
http://www.nnistar.com/gmap/fukushima.html
this head-in-the-sand PR "strategy" is just making things worse. they have to buck up and follow the first rule of decontamination: contain the contaminant.
'As I read the article and the graphic there was no mention of a basement here, just 1st, 2nd and 3rd floors, so putting 2 inches of lead on the concrete 1st floor should take care of all three floors of occupancy. But maybe you know something about a basement? If there was why wasn't the dose rate in the basement also listed?'
I'm wondering whether lead shielding might do more harm than good. Please note that the dose rates mentioned are about three times normal background in continental US. Hundreds of thousands of people in the world continuously receive higher equivalent doses. I just did a Google search on "lead bricks", and couldn't find any info on the radioactivity of the lead used. When I worked in the field 50 years ago, we used lead from sunken ships. SInce the mining operation had occurred decades before the lead was sold, the lead-210 content was reduced considerably.
John
furthermore , even a slab on grade is designed for 5 kPa, an additional 5 kPa still overloads the floor.
I'm just pointing out that the simple quick fix proposed is not that simple. What about my other point? Are you saying the Japan govt hasn't FUBARed this?
What an insane world! This is like steering the life boats that a few Titanic survivors managed to scramble on to, back into the suction vortex of the sinking ship.
If contaminated rubble is making it's way into building materials, you can also be damn sure contaminated food is being relabled, disguised, diluted, into the human and pet food supply chain. There's just too much money to be made by covering up and selling contaminated raw materials.
Corrupt government officials in the pockets of the nuke industry, plus Yakuza gangster capitalism is a bad combination and doesn't bode well for Japan.
GE- "We bring mutated things to life" .
Well, popular culture has recently had a fetish for living in a post-apocalyptic world, whether it's a nuclear wasteland a la 'Fallout 3' or the wildly popular 'zombie apocalypse' meme.
I guess we can ask the population of Japan what it's like to be nuked both in wartime and peace... and sort of live through it.
Thomas Jefferson ~TJ~, posted these two links on the other first page Fukushima thread here … Apparently the last aftershock earthquake on Jan 1st, has caused a meltdown of one of the spent fuel rod ponds at the Fukushima plant.
That lying “cold” shutdown announced by the Japanese government is now hotter than ever and radioactive isotopes of cesium and Pu are spreading around the world again.
http://enenews.com/report-spent-fuel-pool-4-lost-water-began-boil-after-70-new-years-quake-plant-worker.
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/net2/Philadelphia-PA-Real-Time-US-Radiation-Monitoring-Graph.aspx.
Where can I get a cheap radiation meter for my sushi?
You don't need one ~eze~... RFinston and John Iannetta have fully explaind that injesting or inhaling (any amount) of radioactive poisons such as cesium 137 or Pu won't hurt you... They explain that we all revceive far, far more natural radioactive atoms from cosmic rays and from the food and water we consume on a daily basis.
John Iannetta wrote ("we all have about 250,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms of radioactive potassium-40 in our body") , so enjoy your sushi ezeflyer.
At the local organic food market we shop at, they no longer have any of the short grain shshi rice to sell... I wonder why?
search for "radiation" in the catalogue seach.
the RAE Systems units are combined detectors and dosage accumulators. the NeutronRAE unit detects both gamma and neutron radiation. the others don't detect neutrons.
you'd probably raise a few eyebrows scanning your food tho. especially when the detector starts to buzz..
http://www.epa.gov/radiation/understand/calculate.html
There is natural radioactive radiation from cosmic rays and in the food and water we consume... Natural radiation is in rocks and soil and we are born with it in our bodies...The key word there is NATURAL.
There is no NATURAL cesium 137, or any but (perhaps) trace amounts on Earth, as is true of plutonium... Cesium 137 and Pu are deadly poisons, created when using uranium for fuel in a nuclear reactor and it kills people when it enters our enviroment and or our bodies... The PRIMARY point is,, we do not need nuclear energy or any coal fired power plants either...
Apparently you didn’t comprehend what is written in the entire article Mr. Rfinston.
The article also mentioned many other things besides (one building). Such as,,,, > (“The Japanese government is investigating the distribution of crushed stones that may contain radioactivity from the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. It has found that concrete made of the stones has been sold to more than 200 firms.”).
And,,, > (“Radiation fears have since become part of daily life in Japan after cases of contaminated water, beef, vegetables, tea and seafood were discovered.”)
Now as to sealing the cement floor of a building... In Japan they use a woven mat on their floors, which concrete dust could easily work it's way up therough the padding from walking sitting or playing on the floor... The mats are replaced when worn and when pulled up the raioactive concreted dust loaded with cesium 137 or Pu would enter the air in the rooms.
Btw Mr. Rfinston, I have never misquoted you about anything… Like you're not comprehending all of what is clearly published in this article, you display a problem of a reading disability and you just imagine others misquote you... Anything you write is (*your*) writing, not I putting any words in your mouth.
I also find it (extremely) ammusing of your far out suggestion of putting (*lead*) in a house or any buildings... Here in the US at least, if a house or any building has any traces of lead in it and is up for sale,,, the lead must be removed by a liscened contractor who has been certified by government officials to do that work.... LMA Off.
And you ignored this paragraph from the article,,,> ("Radiation fears have since become part of daily life in Japan after cases of contaminated water, beef, vegetables, tea and seafood were discovered.").... But you always have to nit pick and reply to something.... BTW what would a 2 inch thick lead floor in a condomenium building weigh?__ LOL again... And GottaGetOffTheGrid is correct,,, you are not.
'I also find it (extremely) ammusing of your far out suggestion of putting (*lead*) in a house or any buildings... Here in the US at least, if a house or any building has any traces of lead in it and is up for sale,,, the lead must be removed by a liscened contractor who has been certified by government officials to do that work....'
Here in Philadelphia, I think that one can find many homes that have lead piping for their cold water services. And any home with cast iron sewer pipe has lead in the joints (2/3 okum and 1/3 lead as I recall). I use 60/40 tin/lead solder. And a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) in a home may use a lead-acid battery.
But lead is the most widely used shielding material for gamma rays and X-rays; it is cheap and effective.
John
The fall of the Roman Empire has been blamed on lead poisoning and brain damage of the elite, who not only had lead lined aquifers, the 1%ers also used lead plates and cups, it caused insanity in the Roman leaders.... There is a lot of lead in the water in Washington DC too,,, really.
Perhaps you should distill your drinking water John,,, you know, then after awhile maybe you wouldn't post so many stange comments... Just a suggestion.
Now if RFinston is correct,, the Japanese should put two inch thick lead plates all over their land and their roof tops, highways, river beds and such... Kinda slippery when wet though.
The initial problem is actually the nuclear power reactors and the obvious threat of more earthquakes.... Right?
I notice you two guys usually get real active with your comments on a nuker thread after it has left the CD front page.
Why don't you deal factually with one solution I offered to the specific issue of external radiation at ground level in a new building that was the focus of this news item? You make fun of people who are trying to be constructive about this unfortunate accident in Japan. I oppose nuclear power, but your ridiculing approach is an insult to anyone with intelligence, such as to discredit your stated purpose. At your age...you should have matured out of this juvenile behavior.
The highly contaminated areas should have been and should be quaranteend. This is like selling dirt from the Love Canal as fill for a new subdivision. The Japanese govt has completely FUBARed this
I am the one who stated if you are going to protec the Japanese people from radiation with lead plates, you might as well do it right and cover all of the contaminated areas with lead plates.... Actually I was making fun of your silly nonsense Mr. RFinston.
A person conceived, born, and living a lifetime on the first floor would have about twice the risk of developing cancer as normal, if risks shown at much higher exposure levels are extrapolated linearly to this low dose situation. People living in higher natural background areas have prospered in regions where radiation levels are similar to that in this building.
A pro-nuke shill like Roland Finston successfully does his job when he successfully distracts you and wastes your time and takes up space and derails the comment threads with pointless arguments over ridiculous debating points. Like lead sheathing over radioactive buildings!
Now he is reverting to his standard trope: that none of this radioactivity is actually dangerous when compared to a hundred other things, and that other authors and posters are hysterical fear-mongers; see my opening post in this thread.
He does not have to actually successfully convince anyone of anything in order to be successful at his work here. His point is NOT to convince you of anything. His point is to derail the comment threads. Not only to waste YOUR time, but also to turn the comment thread into an ugly mess for any other reader who happens to come along. But also to waste YOUR time by keeping idiotic "debates" going long after an article has dropped off the front page and no one but the person whose time he is wasting is still here.
Everyone should look at whether their responses to Roland Finston are supporting him in his strategy or not. Yes i'm talking to you.
'A pro-nuke shill like Roland Finston successfully does his job when he successfully distracts you and wastes your time and takes up space and derails the comment threads with pointless arguments over ridiculous debating points. Like lead sheathing over radioactive buildings!
Now he is reverting to his standard trope: that none of this radioactivity is actually dangerous when compared to a hundred other things, and that other authors and posters are hysterical fear-mongers; see my opening post in this thread.
He does not have to actually successfully convince anyone of anything in order to be successful at his work here. His point is NOT to convince you of anything. His point is to derail the comment threads. Not only to waste YOUR time, but also to turn the comment thread into an ugly mess for any other reader who happens to come along. But also to waste YOUR time by keeping idiotic "debates" going long after an article has dropped off the front page and no one but the person whose time he is wasting is still here.
Everyone should look at whether their responses to Roland Finston are supporting him in his strategy or not. Yes i'm talking to you.'
Me? You're talking to me? Well, I don't claim the power to read one's mind; but I strongly suspect that RFinston's "strategy" is to infuse some level-headed science into the discussion. I don't know what's "ridiculous" about discussing using lead to shield the occupants of a building. We're talking about lead INSIDE the building. If his posts about lead shielding have made readers aware of how effective and cheap lead is for shielding gamma rays and X-rays, he may have done a service. And if I may add my own contribution, don't use lead to shield high-energy beta radiation. The resulting bremsstrahlung will likely INCREASE the health hazard.
John
Please note: His response to me is NOT intended to produce discussion. His response to me is intended to provoke a response, to which he can respond, with the intent to produce another ugly pointless thread.
i'm going to not respond. i recommend everyone think hard about doing the same.
("webwalk wrote: 'A pro-nuke shill like Roland Finston successfully does his job when he successfully distracts you and wastes your time and takes up space and derails the comment threads with pointless arguments over ridiculous debating points. Like lead sheathing over radioactive buildings! Now he is reverting to his standard trope: that none of this radioactivity is actually dangerous when compared to a hundred other things, and that other authors and posters are hysterical fear-mongers; see my opening post in this thread. He does not have to actually successfully convince anyone of anything in order to be successful at his work here. His point is NOT to convince you of anything. His point is to derail the comment threads. Not only to waste YOUR time, but also to turn the comment thread into an ugly mess for any other reader who happens to come along. But also to waste YOUR time by keeping idiotic "debates" going long after an article has dropped off the front page and no one but the person whose time he is wasting is still here. Everyone should look at whether their responses to Roland Finston are supporting him in his strategy or not. Yes i'm talking to you.' Me? You're talking to me? Well, I don't claim the power to read one's mind; but I strongly suspect that RFinston's "strategy" is to infuse some level-headed science into the discussion. I don't know what's "ridiculous" about discussing using lead to shield the occupants of a building. We're talking about lead INSIDE the building. If his posts about lead shielding have made readers aware of how effective and cheap lead is for shielding gamma rays and X-rays, he may have done a service. And if I may add my own contribution, don't use lead to shield high-energy beta radiation. The resulting bremsstrahlung will likely INCREASE the health hazard. John
~RFinston wrote,,, ("uh...I think you just did respond, Webwalk. What about the facts of this news item. ").
I write,,, ("So?").
There are no safe levels of cesium 137 or Pu whihc has emitted into the atmosphere from a nuclear power plant.
There are no safe levels of ihaled or injested cesium 137 or Pu