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Buffett: Tax Me and My Mega-Rich Friends
WASHINGTON -- Billionaire investor Warren Buffett urged U.S. lawmakers Monday to raise taxes on wealthier Americans to cut Washington's huge budget deficit, saying the move would not dampen investments or jobs.
Billionaire investor Warren Buffett urged U.S. lawmakers Monday to raise taxes on wealthier Americans to cut Washington's huge budget deficit, saying the move would not dampen investments or jobs.
(Rick Wilking/Reuters) In a New York Times opinion article, the chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway proposed a tax increase on Americans who make at least $1 million per year and an additional increase on those making $10 million or more.
"Our leaders have asked for 'shared sacrifice.' But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched," Buffett wrote.
"While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks."
The man known as the "Oracle of Omaha" said his federal tax rate was 17.4 percent last year, while some investment managers were taxed just 15 percent on income reaching into the billions. He then noted that the middle class is taxed up to 25 percent in its income bracket, along with "heavy" payroll taxes.
In contrast, Buffett recalled "far higher" taxes rates for the rich in the 1980s and 1990s, and yet nearly 40 million jobs were added from 1980 to 2000.
"You know what's happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation," he said.
"People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off."
Americans are losing faith with Congress's ability to tackle the country's financial woes, Buffett warned, calling for "immediate, real and very substantial" action.
A protracted partisan battle between lawmakers culminated in a last-minute deal on August 2 to raise the $14.3 trillion US debt ceiling and narrowly avoid a US default.
"My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress," he added. "It's time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice."
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77 Comments so far
Show AllOne would think that this is a big news story - a veritable "Man Bites Dog", but a google check shows zero coverage in the US media.
And of course, the argument that higher upper income taxes discourabes hiring is just preposterous. Employees - i.e. payroll expenses - are a tax deduction! So, one would think that higher marginal income taxes would actually encourage hiring.
And, of course, it is not like taxes just go into a big black hole - they go, in their billions, to vendors and contractors for government supplies and services - and to living-wage jobs for the government employees - both things that rather help the economy (yes I know that far too much of it goes to a war machine, but that's a different topic).
What this "higher taxes on the rich business class discourages hiring" really is an old capitalist trick - the claim of an iron-bound economic law-of-nature (the "law" being fabricated as needed) as a thin-veil for threats and blackmail of the working class... and that ALL that it is!
I had the opposite reaction - I saw it all over the news, in fact everywhere I looked, and my observation was that when a large majority of the population wants something it does not get much coverage, but when one billionaire suggests it, there is wall-to-wall coverage.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44143776/ns/business-personal_finance
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/15/news/economy/buffett_tax_jobs/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1111874406001/grapevine-warren-buffett-on-taxes
Whatever Buffet pays in taxes , he gets back 10 times over in Policy changes his lobbyists pressure the Government to make.
The going rate for political "investments" is closer to 1000 to 1.
Your comment seems more than a bit petty. Buffet could have simply shut up and continued to enjoy the inequities of the tax code favoring the wealthy and the corporation. But, when he steps up and speaks to the unfairness, as he has been doing for decades now, you decide to slap him for something you believe but do not know.
If you cannot recognize an ally when he stands right in front of you what hope is there for you ?
Methinks the Buffett protesteth too much.
Methinks you do not think. You certainly do not inform anyone of your position with silliness.
Buffet is no ally. Buffet is theprivate sector's version of a self-elected FDR. His entire mission is to ensure that the right to skim off labor for massive profit continues undisturbed. Obviously if you're someone who generally supports that economic framework (but thinks it's jsut a touch corrupt now), then Buffet might appear allied. But for those of us who think the problem isn't tax policy but a system of gross exploitation in general, he's just a medic trying to keep the golden goose alive.
Care to show any factual proof for your opinion? Can you show specifically how Buffet "skims off labor"? You might understand that Buffet has taken no monies from Berkshire Hathaway for years now, stating that he has enough personal wealth already.
Buffet's two billion dollar donation to the Gates Foundation came with the proviso that it be spent, in its entirety, within a five year period, its in the contract. Anyone you know given that much to charity? Charity, by the way, that helps the working class families you claim Buffet harms.
You seek to broaden the topic to an indictment of capitalism in general, using Buffet specifically. Thus, anyone defending Buffet for his actions and statements must, perforce, be defending capitalism. Disordered thinking is the curse of solution.
Considering how your post droned on aimlessly off topic I think you are aptly named.
"You seek to broaden the topic to an indictment of capitalism in general, using Buffet specifically. Thus, anyone defending Buffet for his actions and statements must, perforce, be defending capitalism. Disordered thinking is the curse of solution. "
No, it's not.
Maybe you've heard the phrase "Charity is not justice..." Then again, maybe not. Thanks for making me like Buffet and your fellow capitalists even less than I did before reading your shit. I'm sure it's safe to assume a reciprocal sentiment on your part.
"While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan"
So here's an idea to please both the rich and the poor--raise taxes on the wealthy by a large percent, with the understanding that the wealthy will refuse to pay those taxes as a form of war tax resistance. The rich don't have to pay any more in taxes and the focus on cuts shifts to the murderers instead of social security and medicare.
"My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress." Buffett then adds (in the NY Times), "Most wouldn’t mind being told to pay more in taxes as well, particularly when so many of their fellow citizens are truly suffering."
Unfortunately, Buffett's claim that his "rich friends" are willing to pay more taxes fails the smell test. Our current tax laws clearly reflect heavy lobbying by the rich for lower taxes. Either Buffett's "friends" are unrepresentative of the rich, or he doesn't know very many other rich people. It's laughable to believe that Congress cuts taxes on the rich on its own initiative, without lobbying from the rich.
His op-ed in the NY Times sounds like another clever PR con job by Buffett ...
It's not so much the rich vs the poor. It seems more like the pro-human vs the anti-human factions, which cuts across all lines of culture, politics, economics, philosopies, etc...and there is MUCH deception involved (mainly the anti-human faction having to camoflage themselves very well, but also the pro-human faction having to protect themselves & their peeps).
If Buffett is serious, he would contribute hugely to the Treasury voluntarily instead of saying things like "the rich need to pay more taxes" or "I pay less taxes than my secretary", Talk is cheap, ante up Warren, and lead by example!
Buffet might give his fortune away to the poor but not to the filthy rich through the U.S. treasury.
Correct. Buffet gives more the Gates Foundation than does Bill Gates himself. His initial contribution was two billion dollars, and the contract stipulated that it all had to be spent within a specified period of time.
For those who would post the lie that this gifting is a tax shelter please dont, the facts are on the net, easily googled, so do the research before making an ill advised assumption. In fact, the contract itself is available to those interested in truth rather than on criticizing everybody and everything.
Great Warren; godspeed, tally-ho, and so forth. But the real trumoil is not about balancing the budget it is about destroying the progressive remnants of a once semi-enlightened society. A politically astute and effective populace is an impediment to planetary rape.
Put your money where your mouth is. You have spouted this same BS before and taken no action. Cut a check to the Treasury for the tax you should be paying. We could use the money. Maybe you will start a movement among the Plutocrats. (:- chuckle, chuckle :-)
Even better. Start investing in American companies that employ citizens, don't outsource and pay taxes. In theory you will make less profit. Consider the forgone profit the tax you say you are willing to pay.
I've heard your, I a good billionaire, schtick before Warren. I'm calling you out! You are a smart guy. Do some good in America. Create jobs here or keep your phony BS to yourself.
PS: Hire a new image consulting firm. We see you.
In fact, Buffett has committed to giving away 1/2 of his considerable wealth to various non-profit charities (rather than just pass it on to his children) -- and lobbied hard to get other billionaires to make similar commitments. He may not be a saint (easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle), but he's less full of B.S. than 95% of politicians.
Putting his wealth in a charitable tax free trust is another tax dodge. Warren's and Bill Gates' wealth should be taxed at death and the proceeds put toward funding the commons. In a democracy the people vote on how to distribute funds in the commons. The proposed tax free charitable trusts will fund right-wing agendas for centuries with no voter input. ex: - Bill Gates has championed charter schools to the detriment of public schools and unionized teachers.
Warren's class just refuses to pay taxes, even at death. They have figured out how to take it with them. They will be dictating policy to our children's children from the grave based on the moral judgements of the elitists controlling their trusts. The rich know best how to rule is Plutocratic to the core. God made them wealthy to lord over us peons don't ya know 'cause we need all the help we can get.
'Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle ...' is misunderstood. The needle is not anything like today's sewing needle. There is a picture of one at: http://www.simplyislam.com/iteminfo.asp?item=60237
The needle was a gate in an ancient wall made to restrict traffic. It was like a speed bump. Camels would have to be unloaded before going through them. Therefore: a rich man could go to heaven with some effort. It was not impossible as is believed by many today.
Warren Buffet seems to be right on the mark. What about he runs for president on the GOP side? It's all about the money anyway. That would put a stop to the Koch brothers as well. If not that then he should be prospective running mate for Ron Paul.
I don't know who the "you" is here, It sure isn't myself, as you don't know one thing about me. Maybe when you become a founding member of ProgressivesUnited which will probably never we can talk about how "far right." somevbody is. Other than that how about this Tea Party president we've got right now? Yeah, "alright!" Go fake Democrats for a fake America. How about we get some real Democrats such as Norman Solomon in?
I don't know who the "you" is here, It sure isn't myself, as you don't know one thing about me. Maybe when you become a founding member of ProgressivesUnited which will probably be never we can talk about how "far right." somevbody is. Other than that how about this Tea Party president we've got right now? Yeah, "alright!" Go fake Democrats for a fake America. How about we get some real Democrats such as Norman Solomon in?
Re: "eye of the needle". I'm not going to pretend I have any expertise on this topic, because I don't. But I do recall this particular explanation being laid on me in Sunday School when I was about 10 years old ... and even at that tender age it sounded to me suspiciously like a sly attempt to work around the actual gospel message, to try to convince us that in Jesus' eyes it was really OK to be rich, just a little bit of an extra burden. Who knows.
For what it's worth, Wikipedia is skeptical. They say the following:
"The "eye of a needle" has been interpreted as a gate in Jerusalem, which opened after the main gate was closed at night. A camel could only pass through this smaller gate if it was stooped and had its baggage removed. This story has been put forth since at least the 15th century, and possibly as far back as the 9th century. However, there is no evidence for the existence of such a gate.
"Some claim that "camel" is a Greek misprint; that kamilos (camel) was a misprint of kamêlos, meaning "rope" or "cable". That would resolve the mixed metaphor problem while still stating the impossibility for someone with worldly wealth to enter heaven."
The latter sounds more credible to me. But it doesn't really matter. Either way, the Bible is full of errors and contradictions and editors' biases, and should only be treated as such.
You are absolutely right about the whittling of the estate tax, and the emergence of ever-bigger tax dodges on the estate tax, including ever more varieties of charitable trusts. So-called "legacy trusts" are now allowed in certain states "in perpetuity". This is expected to indeed create a new aristocracy.
You are also absolutely right about Warren's class. You may not be aware of the opinion of Warren himself, however. From Reuters, Nov. 14, 2007:
-----------------------------------
Billionaire Warren Buffett on Wednesday endorsed the estate tax as a check on wealth accumulation....
... Buffett, the second-richest man in America after Bill Gates, according to Forbes magazine, said recent tax law changes have tended to benefit people like him.
"Dynastic wealth, the enemy of a meritocracy, is on the rise. Equality of opportunity has been on the decline," Buffett said. "A progressive and meaningful estate tax is needed to curb the movement of a democracy toward plutocracy."
Buffett, the chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway (BRKa.N) questioned any effort to further cut taxes for the wealthy.
"Further shifting of this burden away from the super-rich is not the way to go," he said.
"In a country that prides itself on equality of opportunity, it's becoming anything but that as the gap between the super-rich and the middle class is widening."
---------------------------------------------------
Again, I am not defending the enormous wealth accumulated by Mr. Buffett. But the man is on record as advocating positions that I am in favor of.
In an ideal world, there would be some way to leverage his support of wealth redistribution into something meaningful. If we had a president or a major political party who cared about the populace, he/they could point to Buffett's position and declare that taxes need to be reinstated on the rich.
Two billionaires were sitting on a fence discussing tax avoidance. One billionaire said to the other that he had an army of accountants, operations all over the globe and paid no tax at all. The other billionaire said that he did also and, "When I die I'm going to make things right by placing my money in a charitable trust to benefit all mankind".
Which one paid more toward the support of the commons? They were both deadbeats still paying no tax. They were still alive and just speculating.
Talk is cheap. Buck up now Warren. Start investing in American companies that employ citizens, don't outsource and pay taxes. In theory you will make less profit. Consider the forgone profit the tax you say you are willing to pay.
We don't want your charity. We want you to pay your fair share of the cost - now, like the rest of us.
How about the cost of the military which is not defending America it is making the world free for Exxon, GE, and Warren to do business. Our military is too large to be considered defensive. It is offensive. Exxon, GE and Warren should at least pick up the tab for military spending but they are freeloaders who want to stiff granny to pay for missiles.
I heard that he's in favor of the estate tax, making part of your statement unfair and inaccurate.When he was quoted on it, he said something about wanting to avoid "an aristocracy of wealth."
Talk is cheap. Obama is a good example of that. Warren has the ability and opportunity to do something. He has not to date. Warren and Bill are the two billionaires you would like to have a beer with. Is our image of them real or the result of work by image consulting firms. Look at their publicity pictures. They each have a smile and a slightly cocked head. Their images are disarming. How could you not like Warren and Bill?
If Warren really wants to help American, let him put his money where his mouth is.
Let him start investing in American companies that employ citizens, don't outsource and pay taxes. In theory he will make less profit. Consider the forgone profit the tax he says he is willing to pay.
I like Warren also. Actions speak louder than words. Keep talking Warren but, let's see some action or you are just another Obama type liar playing US.
In my view, the comments pillorying Warren Buffett for his utterances here are ill-considered. Were he to unilaterally donate money to the government, it would not solve the problem, merely exacerbate it. There would be less pressure for meaningful reform, not more. Other fat-cat gazillionaires, the Kochs and DeVos among them, would smile happily at the sucker, and go on their merry way. Sure, let the crazy liberal millionaire contribute out of his pocket!!
The problem is structural. Buffet and others are well aware of this. Make no mistake, I don't defend Buffett's investments in Coca Cola and other corporations whose damage to society and environment are egregious. And for myself, I would have no interest in stacking up the boodle he has accumulated-- it seems like, oh, say, a few dozen million should be enough for the greediest among us.
But in this case, his statements are to be applauded. Who the heck else among the superrich is standing up for tax justice? I don't think he deserves a diss today.
"But in this case, his statements are to be applauded." ====
His statements seem oblivious of the role of the rich lobbying for lower taxes in reaching this point. If you read it, he implies that Congress acted on its own initiative to cut taxes on the rich. Do you believe that?
Again, I am certainly no defender of the wealthy. But I wish CD readers would direct their ire at more worthy targets. This is the man who in 2006 said: "There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning."
That doesn't sound like he's blaming the huge and growing class inequality in the US on Congress to me, but placing it squarely at the doorstep of the wealthy.
thank you for saying that, Hymenaea courbaril!
although, i feel the root source of our problems isn't just about money, at least buffet's acknowledgement of obvious inequality of our tax system. whatever we think of the man, that's one idea we can run with. money in and of itself accomplishes nothing. results come from how that money is spent. we've had enough of vitamin B short term attempt to make it look good, but table the problem till....
we would all be wise to maintain a healthy skepticism, yet at the same time keep an open mind. our fractured society needs to swear off painting one another with a broad brush based from externals.
Buffet's views on taxes and inheritance are an improvement over the usual Wall Street line. On many other related topics however, he seems to be pretty standard for his class, including bailouts, and probably including "debt reduction" / entitlements. If he's an improvement on those items, he needs to make it much plainer ...
Hymenaea,
I agree with you. The man is trying to convince other extremely wealthy people to do the right thing. He's also trying to shame all of the politicians who refuse to raise taxes on the rich for phony reasons. I'm sure he has made some of his money by investing in businesses that have been ethically challenged. Frankly, I don't know if there are any businesses that don't do some harm to the earth and living creatures. Haven't we all made some decisions and taken some actions that have done harm to the common good? If we want to blame something, how about blaming capitalism! I would like to see people living happy comfortable lives in a system that doesn't exploit the earth and the beings living on it. But getting back to the point of the article -- at least he's telling the truth.
If you go to the Charlie Rose website, Buffett was on the show Monday night. He does endorse greater tax and income equity in a general sort of way. But he also endorses the Simpson Bowles Committee and its cuts to entitlements, and other uber-capitalist views such as banks that are "too big to fail" (like his Wells-Fargo). He's very much a lukewarm supporter of common people when business calls ...
Hasn't stopped from him from continuing to accrue wealth at the expense of the masses.
That would be worth more than giving a portion of his ill gotten gains back to his victims.
Warren Buffet is possibly the example Ralph Nader referred to in his book "Only the Super-rich Can Save Us" (I haven't read it). I trust Nader more than most. Would Buffet, a Democrat, be willing to challenge Obama for the Presidency? Seems like a shoo-in.
For some reason, this comment chain is suppressing my paragraph breaks.
This should be in a separate paragraph ...
You would get the impression reading the comments so far, that the writers are opposed to taxing the rich, opposed to a wealth tax, a graduated income tax and an inheritance tax. Otherwise, why are they trashing Warren Buffet who has spoken out on these issues before? Or are they just pissed off because he's very rich, and therefore, by some twisted logic, he must be a hypocrite? True, he's the exception to the rule, but so what? At least he's making some noise.
That's right
Agree. We are better off for his words, than no if no words were said at all. Some of the posters may be Republican trolls and some may be personally frustrated and lash out at everything but anarchy.
I think I'm undertaxed. Given the clear inequalities of the society I live in, and the massive borrowing binge that our country has embarked on (charging everything to the national credit card), and the ease with which I'm able to meet the basic necessities of life (food, transportation, comfortable housing, public libraries, public education, public lands, and emergency services), I'm a rather surprised by the many legal tax breaks I'm allowed to take advantage of. But then I'm probably in a higher income bracket than many of the posters on this site. (Still, though, I'm nowhere near Mr. Buffett! ;-)
I'd rather give it to various nonprofit organizations and political causes who work for the values I believe in (and that's what I do). If I gave the money to Uncle Sam, 30% (I'm guessing at the figure, but that's probably about right) would end up funding the Pentagon and their overpaid contractors and various past and future war costs. No thanks. Let the workers at Raytheon and McDonnell-Douglas pick up that tab.
Wouldn't it be interesting if each taxpayer could decide where his share of taxes would go to?
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
Thomas Jefferson
Not many CDers are in the top 5 percent of income-earners. That is the point of the article. To see, on a state-by-state basis, how taxes shake out across the nation, go to www.itepnet.org. Do not use the drop-down to select a state; instead, click on the state in the map. Then choose the second link. You will see a graph that depicts the taxes paid as a percentage of income by various groups.
The lowest income group invariably pays the most, percentage-wise, in terms of taxes. The top 1 percent invariably pay the least. This is what Buffett is pointing out.
The tail-off in percent on taxes for the top 1 percent of the population has huge financial consequences. Obviously, if you lower by only 1 percent the taxes paid by this highest tier of the socioeconomic spectrum, you short the treasury a considerable amount of money.
Thanks to another CD poster, a month ago, for the point-out to the www.itepnet.org site, which is really quite good. How does your state measure up?
Yes I am under taxed! But it is by choice. I refuse to pay Amerikan taxes that are spent on War. I am so fervently against paying bloody Amerikan taxes that I left the country 18 years ago. I just couldn't C N n anymore. All the main stream media lies, not just Fox news.
When I read this article, I thought lets see how the cranks on CD would find a way to trash Buffett.
Boy, they sure did.
I agree with Hymenaea .Courbani and Recardohead.
Give Buffett a break, and wish we had more like him.
That makes Buffett a f*cking communist! Totally unAmerican.
Maybe our buddy Pete King could even make a case that Buffett is a national security threat.
You need to stop listening to The drugster, Limbaugh is the only one that writes, or says such shit. My wife says far right people post shit like yours for fun. Have you ever read about communism? Do you know what Socialism is? Fox news lies, where are the jobs republicans?, destroy America to make Obama look bad? Thumb up your ass obstructionist republicans? Tea party unpatriots.