EMAIL SIGN UP!
Most Popular This Week
- Transcript: Today's Live Q&A With NSA Leaker, Edward Snowden
- 'Tip of the Iceberg': Senators Warn Far More Data May Not Be Safe
- Playing the Obama Bumper Sticker Game
- Intentional and Evil: Court Marshall Sexually Assaults Woman, Then Arrests Her When She Protests
- David Brooks, Tom Friedman, Bill Keller Wish Snowden Had Just Followed Orders
- Transcript: Today's Live Q&A With NSA Leaker, Edward Snowden
- Remembering Satyajit Ray’s Hirok Rajar Deshe: On Edward Snowden, Resistance and Inverted Totalitarianism
- Pentagon Bracing for Public Dissent Over Climate and Energy Shocks
- Bank of America Lied to Homeowners and Rewarded Foreclosures, Former Employees Say
- The Terror Con
Popular content
Today's Top News
Fukushima: It's Much Worse Than You Think
Scientific experts believe Japan's nuclear disaster to be far worse than governments are revealing to the public.
"Fukushima is the biggest industrial catastrophe in the history of mankind," Arnold Gundersen, a former nuclear industry senior vice president, told Al Jazeera.
This photo shows the damaged No. 4 unit of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex in Okumamachi, Japan, Tuesday. White smoke billows from the No. 3 unit. "Fukushima is the biggest industrial catastrophe in the history of mankind," Arnold Gundersen, a former nuclear industry senior vice president, told Al Jazeera.(Tokyo Electric Power Co. via Kyodo News/AP) Japan's 9.0 earthquake on March 11 caused a massive tsunami that crippled the cooling systems at the Tokyo Electric Power Company's (TEPCO) nuclear plant in Fukushima, Japan. It also lead to hydrogen explosions and reactor meltdowns that forced evacuations of those living within a 20km radius of the plant.
Gundersen, a licensed reactor operator with 39 years of nuclear power engineering experience, managing and coordinating projects at 70 nuclear power plants around the US, says the Fukushima nuclear plant likely has more exposed reactor cores than commonly believed.
"Fukushima has three nuclear reactors exposed and four fuel cores exposed," he said, "You probably have the equivalent of 20 nuclear reactor cores because of the fuel cores, and they are all in desperate need of being cooled, and there is no means to cool them effectively."
TEPCO has been spraying water on several of the reactors and fuel cores, but this has led to even greater problems, such as radiation being emitted into the air in steam and evaporated sea water - as well as generating hundreds of thousands of tons of highly radioactive sea water that has to be disposed of.
"The problem is how to keep it cool," says Gundersen. "They are pouring in water and the question is what are they going to do with the waste that comes out of that system, because it is going to contain plutonium and uranium. Where do you put the water?"
Even though the plant is now shut down, fission products such as uranium continue to generate heat, and therefore require cooling.
"The fuels are now a molten blob at the bottom of the reactor," Gundersen added. "TEPCO announced they had a melt through. A melt down is when the fuel collapses to the bottom of the reactor, and a melt through means it has melted through some layers. That blob is incredibly radioactive, and now you have water on top of it. The water picks up enormous amounts of radiation, so you add more water and you are generating hundreds of thousands of tons of highly radioactive water."
Independent scientists have been monitoring the locations of radioactive "hot spots" around Japan, and their findings are disconcerting.
"We have 20 nuclear cores exposed, the fuel pools have several cores each, that is 20 times the potential to be released than Chernobyl," said Gundersen. "The data I'm seeing shows that we are finding hot spots further away than we had from Chernobyl, and the amount of radiation in many of them was the amount that caused areas to be declared no-man's-land for Chernobyl. We are seeing square kilometres being found 60 to 70 kilometres away from the reactor. You can't clean all this up. We still have radioactive wild boar in Germany, 30 years after Chernobyl."
Radiation monitors for children
Japan's Nuclear Emergency Response Headquarters finally admitted earlier this month that reactors 1, 2, and 3 at the Fukushima plant experienced full meltdowns.
TEPCO announced that the accident probably released more radioactive material into the environment than Chernobyl, making it the worst nuclear accident on record.
Meanwhile, a nuclear waste advisor to the Japanese government reported that about 966 square kilometres near the power station - an area roughly 17 times the size of Manhattan - is now likely uninhabitable.
In the US, physician Janette Sherman MD and epidemiologist Joseph Mangano published an essay shedding light on a 35 per cent spike in infant mortality in northwest cities that occurred after the Fukushima meltdown, and may well be the result of fallout from the stricken nuclear plant.
The eight cities included in the report are San Jose, Berkeley, San Francisco, Sacramento, Santa Cruz, Portland, Seattle, and Boise, and the time frame of the report included the ten weeks immediately following the disaster.
"There is and should be concern about younger people being exposed, and the Japanese government will be giving out radiation monitors to children," Dr MV Ramana, a physicist with the Programme on Science and Global Security at Princeton University who specialises in issues of nuclear safety, told Al Jazeera.
Dr Ramana explained that he believes the primary radiation threat continues to be mostly for residents living within 50km of the plant, but added: "There are going to be areas outside of the Japanese government's 20km mandatory evacuation zone where radiation is higher. So that could mean evacuation zones in those areas as well."
Gundersen points out that far more radiation has been released than has been reported.
"They recalculated the amount of radiation released, but the news is really not talking about this," he said. "The new calculations show that within the first week of the accident, they released 2.3 times as much radiation as they thought they released in the first 80 days."
According to Gundersen, the exposed reactors and fuel cores are continuing to release microns of caesium, strontium, and plutonium isotopes. These are referred to as "hot particles".
"We are discovering hot particles everywhere in Japan, even in Tokyo," he said. "Scientists are finding these everywhere. Over the last 90 days these hot particles have continued to fall and are being deposited in high concentrations. A lot of people are picking these up in car engine air filters."
Radioactive air filters from cars in Fukushima prefecture and Tokyo are now common, and Gundersen says his sources are finding radioactive air filters in the greater Seattle area of the US as well.
The hot particles on them can eventually lead to cancer.
"These get stuck in your lungs or GI tract, and they are a constant irritant," he explained, "One cigarette doesn't get you, but over time they do. These [hot particles] can cause cancer, but you can't measure them with a Geiger counter. Clearly people in Fukushima prefecture have breathed in a large amount of these particles. Clearly the upper West Coast of the US has people being affected. That area got hit pretty heavy in April."
Blame the US?
In reaction to the Fukushima catastrophe, Germany is phasing out all of its nuclear reactors over the next decade. In a referendum vote this Monday, 95 per cent of Italians voted in favour of blocking a nuclear power revival in their country. A recent newspaper poll in Japan shows nearly three-quarters of respondents favour a phase-out of nuclear power in Japan.
Why have alarms not been sounded about radiation exposure in the US?
Nuclear operator Exelon Corporation has been among Barack Obama's biggest campaign donors, and is one of the largest employers in Illinois where Obama was senator. Exelon has donated more than $269,000 to his political campaigns, thus far. Obama also appointed Exelon CEO John Rowe to his Blue Ribbon Commission on America's Nuclear Future.
Dr Shoji Sawada is a theoretical particle physicist and Professor Emeritus at Nagoya University in Japan.
He is concerned about the types of nuclear plants in his country, and the fact that most of them are of US design.
"Most of the reactors in Japan were designed by US companies who did not care for the effects of earthquakes," Dr Sawada told Al Jazeera. "I think this problem applies to all nuclear power stations across Japan."
Using nuclear power to produce electricity in Japan is a product of the nuclear policy of the US, something Dr Sawada feels is also a large component of the problem.
"Most of the Japanese scientists at that time, the mid-1950s, considered that the technology of nuclear energy was under development or not established enough, and that it was too early to be put to practical use," he explained. "The Japan Scientists Council recommended the Japanese government not use this technology yet, but the government accepted to use enriched uranium to fuel nuclear power stations, and was thus subjected to US government policy."
As a 13-year-old, Dr Sawada experienced the US nuclear attack against Japan from his home, situated just 1400 metres from the hypocentre of the Hiroshima bomb.
"I think the Fukushima accident has caused the Japanese people to abandon the myth that nuclear power stations are safe," he said. "Now the opinions of the Japanese people have rapidly changed. Well beyond half the population believes Japan should move towards natural electricity."
A problem of infinite proportions
Dr Ramana expects the plant reactors and fuel cores to be cooled enough for a shutdown within two years.
"But it is going to take a very long time before the fuel can be removed from the reactor," he added. "Dealing with the cracking and compromised structure and dealing with radiation in the area will take several years, there's no question about that."
Dr Sawada is not as clear about how long a cold shutdown could take, and said the problem will be "the effects from caesium-137 that remains in the soil and the polluted water around the power station and underground. It will take a year, or more time, to deal with this".
Gundersen pointed out that the units are still leaking radiation.
"They are still emitting radioactive gases and an enormous amount of radioactive liquid," he said. "It will be at least a year before it stops boiling, and until it stops boiling, it's going to be cranking out radioactive steam and liquids."
Gundersen worries about more earthquake aftershocks, as well as how to cool two of the units.
"Unit four is the most dangerous, it could topple," he said. "After the earthquake in Sumatra there was an 8.6 [aftershock] about 90 days later, so we are not out of the woods yet. And you're at a point where, if that happens, there is no science for this, no one has ever imagined having hot nuclear fuel lying outside the fuel pool. They've not figured out how to cool units three and four."
Gundersen's assessment of solving this crisis is grim.
"Units one through three have nuclear waste on the floor, the melted core, that has plutonium in it, and that has to be removed from the environment for hundreds of thousands of years," he said. "Somehow, robotically, they will have to go in there and manage to put it in a container and store it for infinity, and that technology doesn't exist. Nobody knows how to pick up the molten core from the floor, there is no solution available now for picking that up from the floor."
Dr Sawada says that the creation of nuclear fission generates radioactive materials for which there is simply no knowledge informing us how to dispose of the radioactive waste safely.
"Until we know how to safely dispose of the radioactive materials generated by nuclear plants, we should postpone these activities so as not to cause further harm to future generations," he explained. "To do otherwise is simply an immoral act, and that is my belief, both as a scientist and as a survivor of the Hiroshima atomic bombing."
Gundersen believes it will take experts at least ten years to design and implement the plan.
"So ten to 15 years from now maybe we can say the reactors have been dismantled, and in the meantime you wind up contaminating the water," Gundersen said. "We are already seeing Strontium [at] 250 times the allowable limits in the water table at Fukushima. Contaminated water tables are incredibly difficult to clean. So I think we will have a contaminated aquifer in the area of the Fukushima site for a long, long time to come."
Unfortunately, the history of nuclear disasters appears to back Gundersen's assessment.
"With Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, and now with Fukushima, you can pinpoint the exact day and time they started," he said, "But they never end."
Comments
Note: Disqus 2012 is best viewed on an up to date browser. Click here for information. Instructions for how to sign up to comment can be viewed here. Our Comment Policy can be viewed here. Please follow the guidelines. Note to Readers: Spam Filter May Capture Legitimate Comments...



204 Comments so far
Show AllGood thing the EPA has gone back every 3 months radiation monitoring.
These sociopaths we have running the gov and economy are batshit crazy and won't be happy just killing off humans - but fuck while we're at it let's just irradiate the place for the next 20'000 years.
These fascist sociopaths have been dealt with multiple times thruout history: tarred and feathered during the revolutionary war, guillitined during the french revolution, the russians stood them up at thr nearest wall and filled them with lead, the Allied Forces hung them from the nearest lamppost.
Nowadays we elect them to President.
In this case, they are endangering even their OWN children and grandchildren with a toxic radioactive world. Radiation knows no boundaries based on class, wealth and privilege. We need to stop the war mongers and corporate psychos.
Thank you Al Jazeera. Will this story be carried in the US news or is it less important than Weiner's hijinks?
"Will this story be carried in the US news?"
GE, the maker of the Fukushima plant, owns something like 49% of NBC, which in turn is linked to msnbc.com. Westinghouse, another nuclear contractor, owns CBS. The point is, the nuclear industry and the big news houses are interlinked (when you get down to it, this is true of almost all of the large corporations running the US). As mentioned in the article, Obama received large contributions from nuclear, and in turn offered up a $50 billion stimulus package for nuclear construction.
One of the huge weaknesses of the US currently is that the corporate elites march more or less in lockstep, with little dissent permitted throughout the society.
Whenever the Japanese nuclear disaster is covered here, it is often with a lot of finger-pointing at the Japanese government, or the failure of TEPCO, as if their shortcomings are to blame, as if only they had done things right, this never would have happened. It never points a finger at GE, and rarely calls into question the very existence of nuclear power.
Yes. Lurking in this disaster is the mother of all class action lawsuits against General Electric and that's why their man in the White House has clammed up and had the EPA shut down the monitoring of radiation, and why there is zero information on how much plutonium hit the United States.
Epidemiologists need to keep an eye on the West Coast over the next couple of decades. My guess is there is going to be an enormous spike in bone, thyroid, lung, stomach and intestinal cancers.
Your guess is right.
A former Soviet commisioner lady looked into the Chernobyl data while the USSR was imploding. She took advantage of the chaos to get her hands on a secret report to the politburo dated May 12, 1986. The report stated that, as of that time, 10,198 people had been hospitalizd in Hospital 6 (a hospital dedicated to treat Acute Radiation Sickness) The government was saying everything was hunky jake publicly as Japan, the WHO and the pro-nuke liars are saying now. The soviet government urged thousands in Minsk to participate in mayday celebrations knowing they would receive huge radiaiton doses. The cover up was massive then as it is now.
Since it took until November to stop the radiation output with over 600,000 soldiers, scientists, miners and engineers, it was irresponsible and criminal to deny that the end result would lead to nearly one million dead.
The deformities caused by this Chernobyl disaster are horrendous and ongoing. The Chinese nuclear tests caused thousands of deformities along the silk road near the test sites as well.
In addition to hundreds of thousands of slow and painful deaths, the Japanese and many people in the world will see horrendous birth defects.
The dismissive attitude of the pro-nuke greedsters towards the ecosphere destroying phenomenum of nuclear power plant radiation is monstrous and unforgivable.
The following documentary was made in 2006 with never before film and photos taken during the Chernobyl crisis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o&feature=player_embedded
Sorry for the caps, but EVERYBODY SHOULD WATCH THIS, SEND IT TO YOUR FRIENDS, YOUR ALLEGED REPRESENTATIVES, the nuclear CEOs!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o&feature=player_embedded
I am a nuclear veteran, I've suffered radiation poisoning and, so far, survived, but many of my shipmates are long dead, of horrible cancers, mostly. Birth defects, miscarriages, etc., were common. The nuclear shills should watch this. Perhaps they would revise their scripts, though I doubt it.
The same government lies that were used at Chernobyl are being used at Fukushima, and the actual cost in human lives may be even worse. We've seen the same lies here in the US. The area around Chernobyl is considered uninhabitable for three to six hundred years! Longer than the Dark Ages lasted. The sarcophagus that was to safely seal the reactor's melted core forever is collapsing. They are building yet another, to cover that.
Who knows what they'll come up with to "finally" seal up the Fukushima reactor cores, but that, too will no doubt break down. Radiation changes things, it weakens them. The nuclear industry knows this, but that does not worry them, as the CEOs are far away from the sites and there are a lot of people to throw in the fire. The profits go on and that is all that counts.
Watch this film, look at those kids, look at the faces of the survivors, living their lives through one disease after another, one cancer after another. That is OUR future if we keep feeding the dragon.
Coolrelation is not causality. Radionuclide exposure in these cities may be casue for concern or may not be. But unless how the infants died is consistent with radionuclide exposure, it can be coorelated to anything - the economy, the unusual weather - anything.
Fukushima is certainly an enormously disruptive and expensive disaster, and in a statistcal sense some loss of live can be attributed to it, (but porbably not enough to even depress average life expectancy) Is everyone forgetting what a real industrial catastrophe looks like? Anyone heard of Bhopal?
Correlation does not prove causality. True. But when there is a dramatic change in one factor followed by a related change in results, it is probable cause. This is not a controlled laboratory experiment but a huge event that has dire implications for life on earth.
BTW - where are the "pro-life" people on the spread of radioactivity and other toxins in the environment? Fetuses are especially vulnerable to genetic damage from teratogens in petroleum products and to the effects of radiaton.
Your first and third sentences are mutually contradictory.
Yes, there's a smoking gun in my hand and a bullet in the victims head, but there's no reason to think these facts might be related, Officer.
Not really. Probable cause or preponderance of the evidence or a scientific level of proof are not the same things. But each has its place in decision making. Can we wait for incontravertible proof when we have so much evidence over time that radiation exposure causes problems with fetal development?
There is clearly already more than enough evidence as to the dangers of radiation releases to abandon nuclear power forever. But the fact that there was a spike in infant deaths on the US west coast that corresponded to the time frame of Fukushima-- well, there are more questions that would need to be answered before we could establish cause and effect, no? Could there not be other reasons for such a spike? Also, such a spike may be random-- we would want to know the standard deviation of infant mortality over as many years as there are records. I don't want to split hairs. But things can be more involved than we may think initially. The path to truth is difficult. I'm not an epidemiologist. I'm willing to wait for a more detailed analysis on this particular event on the west coast. But I'm darn sure opposed to nuclear power.
The real damage from Fukushima will be apparent in ten or twenty years. Given the amount of radiation released, this would seem to be unavoidable. I have no doubt that will be an ongoing tragedy. In a just world, news of this would not be hushed up. One wonders how well and how objectively it will be studied.
And of course, the bioaccumulation in fish will be a daunting challenge for all of Japan. They don't have vast farm fields where they can raise protein for a population of 127 million. How can you assure the safety of fish when, as the article points out, a small bit of radioactivity can easily be fatal over time?
I appreciate your scrupulousness about drawing conclusions. (I am not being sarcastic). We should keep in mind things like standard deviation and random blips, lest we are later to be proven wrong on a detail that undermines the larger general picture.
I think that with the BP spill, the Niger delta, and the Fukushima event that we will observe many disturbing little changes in life and nature over time all over the world. We will not know what each one means. Each one will unfold quietly and mysteriously, as though we are in a horror movie. The government and industry will issue soothing statements. The ending has not been written yet.
Your insistence upon critical thinking and refusal to join the mob running screaming off the cliff is admirable. But I fear your wise words are lost on the adrenaline fueled junkies here who make much noise but seldom make sense. The thirty second sound bite and the ability to reset the video game thus negating all that death have combined to form a perfect storm of a population, so willing to allow the fox to rule the henhouse.
with all due respect to everyone, we have, unfortunately, the opportunity to continue to observe, as these particles will be entering us for quite some time, yet...
like, my lifetime, my kid's lifetime...his kid's? don't get me started...
one may question the early returns, but I don't feel the overall trend is in question, do you? I mean, this is physics...these particles destroy the human body from inside...that is a given...infants being more vulnerable than others...
I wholeheartedly anticipate further news of similar significance, whether further evidence of increasing raw numbers of infant deaths, or fetal malformation, or other diseases in the general populace...
the next 10 weeks should go far in addressing the questions being raised within this thread...
provided information is made available, of course...not a small factor in our thinking...
while I appreciate caution in drawing conclusion, this is beginning to sound like questioning whether or not it got dark because of the earth's natural, daily spinning in regard to the sun...
of course, one could have an eclipse, once in a while, but, come on...
The overall trend is not in question, as you say.
You know how infants typically die? Dehydration from diarrhea. What causes that? Toxins in water. Water on the West Coast was highly radioactive post-Fukushima. So you had these infants drinking bottle after bottle of radioactive formula (made with boiled tap water typically). Note that infants drink 4 or more bottles a day - the equivalent in body weight to you or I drinking a dozen two-liter bottles of the stuff.
Thing is, the ones who dIed may be the lucky ones. The rest are headed now for bone, thyroid and intestinal cancer.
Fukushima may be the single biggest disaster in human history, and our media want to talk about some Congressman's dick instead.
I wil try a more blunt argument:
Radionuclides of Cesium Iodine or Strotium while radioactive and present elevated long-term cancer risks at if ingested or inhaled in very small amounts, are not al all acutely toxic in the small amounts that the infants could have ingested. Therefore, Fukushima being the cause of such an immediate infant mortality spike is about as close to impossible as I can imagine. Also, the pregnancies of these babies preceded the accident, so we also have to reject a hypothesis of fetal mutation - related birth defects from radionuclides ingested by the mother.
Considering the rather small sample size ( a hundred or so) it is probably just a statistical fluctuation - with the increasingly dire state of US healthcare acccess among the poor (and it is almost a guarantee most of these babies were poor) being a big contrriburting factor.
Some of the stuff nuclear power opponents put forth can make AGW denialists's claims look reasonable.
Yes, the shitty industry you lobby for will never admit to any of the deaths and illnesses it causes. You can always hide behind the delay between exposure and death and the fact that radiation doesn't have a monopoly on being carcinogenic.
My whole family was sick in the weeks that followed Fukushima - stomach problems, headaches, nausea. Maybe a coincidence, but right now you have absolutely ZERO knowledge of how much radiation we on the West Coast of the United States have been and are being exposed to our air, food and water.
And for the record, there is no safe amount. Your filthy, evil industry needs to be shut down. People have had enough of indulging your spin, dodges and lies while we all stand here inhaling your cancer-causing "fuel fleas". Fucking die you sicko.
This accusation of people who have differing opinions from yours as being paid by this or that industry is getting a bit old, isn't it?
You know what's gotten old? The arrogance of shills for nuclear power. Right now everyone who has ever championed it should be on their knees begging forgiveness for poisoning half the planet.
Yet here you stand, smug as ever. Get your ass off this comment board and over to Fukushima and start cleaning up your staggering radioactive mess, shill. Failing that, do us all a favor and die you lousy amoral fucker. Die. And may your last thought be, "I can't believe those hippies were right all along!"
Thank you. SO well said.
Yeah, you imbeciles use that one on me all the time... particularly when I'm shining the light on your own dark motives. The opinion that considers human well being differs substantially in moral content from the one that unabashedly backs big industry, even when said industry is (especially given its recently granted status of "personhood," by our "beloved" Supreme Court) guilty of manslaughter (or worse) on an epoch scale.
For persons to speak out against the various travesties threatening human and aquatic life is hardly the same thing as having a problem with differing opinions.
There IS no moral credibility, neither economic nor practical, in the views you hold, and are quite likely PAID to hold. Attacking your positions on their lack of merit doesn't meet the standard of an ad hominem attack, either. Although your thick-headed indifference to the suffering that presently remains hidden in plain sight makes you a loathsome individual, one difficult NOT to dislike, or worse.
rose (pseudonym: “Siouxrose") (in response to pjd412) wrote:
“Yeah, you imbeciles use that one on me all the time... particularly when I'm shining the light on your own dark motives.”
- - - - -
rose (pseudonym: “Siouxrose") (in response to pjd412) wrote:
Attacking your positions on their lack of merit doesn't meet the standard of an ad hominem attack, either.
* * * * *
My Reply:
rose,
You are right attacking someone’s positions for lack of merit is not the same as an ad hominem attack.
But calling someone an imbecile and questioning that person’s motives are ad hominem attacks.
Questioning someone's motives may nevertheless be both justified and helpful when done in an informative manner rather than just as an insult.
Calling someone an imbecile, however, serves no useful purpose in my opinion.
Rest assured all the rest of us who read Comments here are quite capable of coming to our own conclusions regarding the intelligence of people who post here.
- - - - -
Regarding Fukushima: the enormity of the disaster is heart rending and mind boggling. I am glad to see that more and more people are turning against nuclear power in Germany, Italy, Japan and in other parts of the world.
We need to find another way.
You wouldn't be the first industry-paid sockpuppet to post on the internet. Several years ago I unmasked an oil-industry sockpuppet who was posting on Gardenweb, arguing that global warming was a myth.
Different day, different issue, same ol' sh*t.
-- Paravani
I think the name, "Fukushima baby" is a phrase we are going to hear of, at increasing rates.
Someone says the obvious thing. I know that NUCLEAR POWER ICKY is one of this website's articles of faith, but Bhopal killed thousands to tens of thousands. Surely that counts as "worst"?
What makes you prescient? Do you have a final death toll from Fukushima? You do know plutonium is radioactive for 500,000 years, right? Do you know how many human beings are going to get cancer as a result of Fukushima over the next half million years? You do know people on the West Coast have been breathing it now for months, right? You do know it's going to show up all over the food chain from produce to tuna fish, right? You do know that it takes only a single particle to give you cancer, right? How many birth defects will result? How many stillbirths? How many thyroid cancers? How many lung cancers? How many bone cancers? How many stomach and intestinal cancers?
Do tell, smart ass.
Maybe Fukushima will kill you. It may have already, and you just don't know it yet. If it hasn't, there's a salad, a breath of air, a piece of fish or a glass of water that will do you in months or years from now. Your cancer isn't going to have a signature on it that says, "remember that tuna sandwhich you ate five years ago? Yep, Fukushima."
People are so naive. So, so naive about the nature of this disaster and how it is going to hit them personally.
I respect and appreciate your passion, Fake French. There is a decided effort on the part of some in this forum to LIE about all sorts of evidence. It would seem that apart from the instructions given to them by their bosses, there's a peculiar need to keep the public under a number of illusions... likely to insure that no massive awakening fills the streets, demands accountability of the leaders and payback from the corporations who have decimated our quality of life while profiting all the way, and the eventuality of an essential storming of the Bastille.
Since very real lives are at stake in all this obfuscation, like you, I have little tolerance for those who would so willingly muddy the waters. It's the same amoral stance that has climate change deniers still posting here, along with shills for GM "food," and nuclear power plants. It's not enough that these creeps are part of an establishment that already wields FAR too much power, and FAR too much influence over media content, thereby keeping the public confused (or in the dark), they have to show up here to also wreak havoc, divide the forum, and plant the deadly seeds of deception.
Maybe they are true believers in the way that Erik Prince thinks he can kill brown skinned people for Jesus, possessed of some kind of Divine impunity. Maybe they really don't get it at all. Yet it's hard, for all the abundant evidence CD generously publishes, day after day, to grant them that benefit of the doubt, with so much plainly on view, added to what's so indubiably at stake.
I still think there's a small window of opportunity for lifestyle changes, helpful ways to adapt, if enough people were in possession of The Truth. These imposters in our forum are committed to insuring that that never prove the case. Aren't they just swell. Maybe they think End Times is a good thing.
It should be self-evident by now, shades of "the lady doth protest too much," that YOU take umbrage with this,issue more than anyone else it would seem. Now why is that? Yet you have on many occasions elected to personally attack me for such items as my name, or what books I read... what would cause a poster to remain dedicated to that objective? I would say it's that YOU are one of the persons here with a dubious agenda. And you use and have used other screen names for all your purported testimonies to being truthful and upright, while seeking to damage my credibility.
So, in answer to your question, I will not give it a rest. So long as we still have a semblance of free speech, the Homeland Security state hasn't confiscated my computer, and the McCarthy hearings and book burnings not yet begun, I will speak out. And I ACCUSE you!
I have watched how the group embedded in this site takes turns. They play good cop and bad cop emulating our fake democracy and fake 2 party system. When I go after one, in this case Sabocat who now has sought to distance himself from that name by using PJD, that rather than HIM respond directly to the allegation, a different poster, seemingly unrelated, will show up to try to discredit me essentially doing the dirty work for him. Since the people who do this have a HISTORY of attacking me, any notion of coincidence is tossed aside by the evidence.
I am ONTO you. You have played these tricks for over 2 years and guess what, I am still standing. You have not managed to silence or intimidate me. And while there have only been a handful of posters repeatedly targeted on this site, as one of them, I know of what I speak. Should I publish how many from your little group have contacted me via my personal email system? I have kept all the emails... and have a BODY of evidence for the time when the current conservative tide swings back in a more HONEST and lawful direction. If I don't have my day of reckoning with all the bullies who spent MANY hours trying to sully my reputation and undermine my years of dedicated work, the lords of karma will act on my behalf. Of that I am 100% certain.
Good day, fraud.
scribe,
Thank you for your statement regarding the desecration of Lakota spirituality and the link to the declaration of Wilmer Stampede Mesteth, Darrell Standing Elk, and Phyllis Swift Hawk.
"there have only been a handful of posters repeatedly targeted on this site, as one of them, I know of what I speak."
"... the lords of karma will act on my behalf."
Growing a little paranoid in those statements, Fake Sioux. - Should watch that.
In all friendliness, you're seriously on the edge there.
To get back on topic: did radiation get ya? ;-)
Ive no idea why Rose has suddenly taken this turn to the dark, or more likely I have simply missed her previous diatribes. She seems to accuse everyone, myself included, who "dares" offer a differing opinion, however mildly stated, of being a paid troll or otherwise engaging in some sort of nefarious mission here.
I only speak out because I rather enjoyed much of her efforts here, at least prior to this latest incarnation of her as harpy.
Well the comments section here has definitely been overrun by a rats nest of shills, finks and provocateurs. What they all have in common is a demonstrated desire to blunt the impact of the articles posted. As you indicate, the problems are indisputable at this point, and in fact the solutions are so obvious that if we made any random 8 year-old girl dictator of the planet for twenty minutes she could solve the world's problems through simple common sense.
It used to bother me that the comments section is hidden for anyone not logged in (or let's say, randomly hidden as I have no idea what the site operators are doing when it comes to obfuscating the comments to web passers-by). Now I think they may as well be hidden. Let the articles speak for themselves. They paint an accurate picture of a declining civilization brought low by greed, fear, corruption and stupidity. Let the shills squawk away. They and their loved ones won't be spared these historic forces any more than the rest of us.
The only thing worth doing now is throwing it back in their faces. When the day comes and they get their cancer, or their home is flooded or repossessed, their job outsourced, their health care denied, their friends or families bombed or shot, we'll be there in the back of their minds and they'll be left thinking, "oh shit.... maybe those people at Common Dreams were right!"
We're right, assholes. Count on it.
Well in all the comments I've posted I've tried to keep the focus on Fukushima. I'm ambivalent about SiouxRose, as we've run hot and cold over the years and I well know she can carry a grudge around. All I ever try to do here is call it like I see it. I agree with most of SiouxRose's political insights, though I firmly believe astrology to be pseudo-science.
As for engaging shills in general, the thing is, I find their stupid lies to be perfect invitations to drive home the actual progressive message with full emphasis, so I don't find it to be a waste of time even though they themselves are cartoonish phonies and buffoons that can never be swayed and are often being paid to misunderstand. They're so obviously and embarrassingly on the wrong side it's a great joy to rub their noses in it.
Hey, winning friends and influencing people! Man, do you sound like a total prick. Why don't you take your patronizing crap and your weirdo, hyper-politically correct Sioux-phobia and shove them up your ass?
Hey wait, are you some sort of meta-troll!? Good one! Now I'm not talking about either Fukushima OR progressive politics! Nice going dickhead!
You played THIS number how many times now, trying to discredit me for using a name I identify with on a spiritual level? Regardless of explanations about the continuity of the soul and the spiritual fact that I (and likely others in this forum) have lived previous Indigenous lifetimes?
In all likelihood you pulled this crap up a year ago using the screen name of Ekzile and many people, including Bill from Saginaw, tried to show you that you were way out of line, repeating your aversion to my name in more than 8 different posts, thus overdoing it.
You try to damage my reputation but then accuse me of paranoia.
FAKE FRENCH: I recall your posting a compliment that I found very moving, comparing one of my post's logic to what you then related to the potential utility of astrology. If you need to define the field as pseudo-science, never having studied it, that is your own affair. However, I have seen amazing congruences in over 40 years of working with the system, and what's published (sun sign generalities) in magazines is NOT authentic astrology.
Also, I use astrology in less than 10% of my posts... therefore anyone who makes that the central core of my contribution to this site is purposely trying to undermine my credibility due to the public's ignorance on this subject. My detractors use comments like, "zombie astrologer," or "go back to your tarot cards," or "consult your ouija" to purposely play on the fact that most scientific/logical/intelligent types hold a prejudice towards this area of inquiry.
It should be obvious that I am highly intelligent, well-educated, and quite up to date on the issues. I read up on a wide array of subjects, am (and have been published) for over 25 years, and my accomplishments in a world as antithetical to my preferred field of study as America's Christian theocracy happens to be, deserve at least some respect. Barring that, those who insult me and repeatedly seek to invalidate the value of my contribution could pass my posts by... if their intent was not one based upon HARM.
As such, I will and do react. Sioux Rose is my professional name and unlike 90% of those posting, it means my persona is on display. The ones most likely to throw poison barbs are slick cowards who hide behind multiple screen names. In fact, scribe accused ME of that, a typical tactic of projection. His motives towards me and my work are toxic... if he were fair-minded, he would just let my work be. Instead, he constantly attacks me, then suggests I suffer from paranoia. And these attacks, combined with those that target the majority of writers published by CD convince me that there is a clearly orchestrated campaign to discredit persons of potential influence. I am unsure of the reasons why I managed to get on their shit list, apart from reading that one tactic deployed by these spies involves "Isolating the radical so as to neutralize the conversation." Astrology, feminism, and being anti-war may qualify me as that radical. In any case, The day "Scribe" comes clean, perhaps announcing his REAL name so he can be similarly scrutinized, will be the day Obama ends war.
rose (pseudonym “Siouxrose") (in response to scribe) wrote:
It should be obvious that I am highly intelligent, well-educated, and quite up to date on the issues. I read up on a wide array of subjects, am (and have been published) for over 25 years, and my accomplishments in a world as antithetical to my preferred field of study as America's Christian theocracy happens to be, deserve at least some respect.
* * * * *
My Reply:
rose,
I admit that occasionally you can be rather poetic and even insightful. But this is not one of your more insightful posts in my opinion. In matters of spirituality humility is generally more becoming.
fake_french (in response to pjd412) wrote:
You know what's gotten old? The arrogance of shills for nuclear power. Right now everyone who has ever championed it should be on their knees begging forgiveness for poisoning half the planet.
Yet here you stand, smug as ever. Get your ass off this comment board and over to Fukushima and start cleaning up your staggering radioactive mess, shill. Failing that, do us all a favor and die you lousy amoral fucker. Die. And may your last thought be, "I can't believe those hippies were right all along!"
- - - - -
fake_french (in response to scribe) wrote:
As for engaging shills in general, the thing is, I find their stupid lies to be perfect invitations to drive home the actual progressive message with full emphasis, so I don't find it to be a waste of time even though they themselves are cartoonish phonies and buffoons that can never be swayed and are often being paid to misunderstand. They're so obviously and embarrassingly on the wrong side it's a great joy to rub their noses in it.
- - - - -
fake_french (in response to scribe) wrote:
Hey, winning friends and influencing people! Man, do you sound like a total prick. Why don't you take your patronizing crap and your weirdo, hyper-politically correct Sioux-phobia and shove them up your ass?
Hey wait, are you some sort of meta-troll!? Good one! Now I'm not talking about either Fukushima OR progressive politics! Nice going dickhead!
- - - - -
Gerald (in response to nohobear) wrote:
And no, I doubt that you really "know who the shills are," as many provocateurs are compartmentalized and very often take on progressive ideas to make the appearance of having and then building greater credibility, and to influence others in their otherwise hidden agendas.
It is often too fine a line to draw, that some posters are actually helpful about say anti-nuclear news reports, and responding to more obvious shills -- but their sleeper agent status is sometimes revealed in their inconsistencies between explicitly stated and implied beliefs.
And while it is " emotionally satisfying to call them on their B.S., " there is more a stake that just ( some of ) their "primary purpose" and desire to "derail legitimate debate."
* * * * *
My Reply:
fake_french,
Somehow, judging from the evidence of your comments at least in this thread I don’t think you have been able to “drive home the actual progressive message with full emphasis” at all effectively.
In fact, if I were concerned as Gerald apparently is about the possibility of deep cover “sleeper agent” shills and tolls, I might suspect that you were one.
But I am not and I don’t.
Please try harder at presenting your arguments on their merits and dispense with the ad hominem attacks.
Thank you.
Pretty rich, you reality-challenged sociopath. You bash the name I use as a writer. You make light of the sources I share in this forum. You just accused me of trying to sell astrology books, as if I were not possessed of an altruism committed to raising consciousness (while your buddies, you know, the ones you so frequently tag-team with, have discussed me like little gossip queens into the wee hours of the night), but it's all just my imagination, and I suffer from paranoid delusions. The question better asked is why do you and your little group find what's evidenced in my posts SO TROUBLING? For surely if it held neither truth, nor merit, the fine citizens and intelligent minds of this forum would have the discernment to figure that out on their own, without you so redundantly calling attention to my messages.
I hope others see through you the way I do. Dishonesty is a serious karmic offense. And since my motives are pure, and my posts reflect my genuine beliefs, to attack me with an intent to damage my credibility is a serious charge. You can hide behind your anonymity here like any other cheap coward, but you cannot hide from the Lords of Karma. And I could give a flying f--k if you challenge that premise or otherwise, because JUST like gravity, it hardly requires your arrogant consent.
BTW: I am not the only person who notices the presence of shills in this forum. Ones like Horace and Mark Abram are only the most obvious, there to give the more subtle manipulators like YOU cover... which is why my posts hit a nerve and cause your knee-jerk reactions. You GAVE YOURSELF away, pal. Nice work!
Even with the media blackout we have been aware of weather patterns and Berkeley has its radiation meter running. We are in the SF Bay Area. The rain was full on radiated it made our skin burn. They told us there would be lightning storms - that was enough to keep most of us indoors during some of the most toxic rains. We have stopped eating fish altogether. Our DHA oils are from pre 3-11. We get our milk products from Sonoma County which has some radiation not as high as some. It is already worrisome and this is WITHOUT WARNINGS. My son had his physical in April and his doctor only said to eat foods high in iron. I thought the doctors must know and they don't want to scare anybody, but here it's been business as usual.
I hear rich people have plans to live in caves and underground extravaganzas. We live in a thin apartment and can hear the baby next door crying as I type.
There is a sense of nowhere to hide. Nowhere for protection from radiation. From the beginning, Fukushima, BECAUSE of the media silence and mounting evidence, I suspected is a horrible disaster for Japan, but also a Global event of terrible proportions. I knew while watching the local news and the satellite weather motion cam showed the wind pattern blowing from Japan to the West Coast and them shutting the camera off! There has been an accumulation of moments like those.
"personally - and I don't have any kids to worry about.."
How fortunate for posterity, should it be sustained.
scribe,
Last time I was in the Bay area I got a chance to spend more time in San Francisco. I like the city. I have a sister who lives further south on the peninsula.
Some time ago I read somewhere of small increases in radioactive isotopes as far east as Boston. I image people living in Tokyo or anywhere in Japan must feel violated, a deep sense of loss and grief, and that everything has changed.
Bhopal killed tens of thousands. Chernobyl may have killed a million. Fukushima apparently will, or perhaps already has released far more radiation than Chernobyl. At present, it looks like Fukushima will be the all time champion in the industrial nightmare contest, but we need to give it time.
But getting hung up on the question of which is THE worst is pretty ridiculous - as if to imply that if Fukushima turns out not to be the absolute worst, then that makes it OK.
Nuclear radiation is sinister in a way that nothing else is. Subjectively, for me, no chemical accident will ever match it in that respect.
The silence in the US around Bhopal was truly stunning. It was a preventable mass murder and Union Carbide walked away with a slap on the wrist.
You actually sound serious (PJD 412).
Here are some facts you may wish to consider... Cancer rates in children have risen by mort than 2,000% since we have had numerous nuclear power plants in operation and three major nuclear power plant accidents. TMI, Fermi 1 and Chernobyl. Now we have Fukushima added to the mess.
More than half a million people died of cancer in the US last year, down slightly from 2008 and 9... Millions more are being treated for cancer and they aren't just elderly people, a good percentage are young children, teens, young adults.
Just a coincodince huh pjd? Indeed there are other reasons for cancer than from being exposed to human created radiation, or inhaling microscopic specks of cesium137. The fact is, cancer is epidemic now and that medical malady has esculated (ever since) we bagan splitting atoms to boil water.
The deadly radioactive emissions from Fukushima will continue unabated and likely grow worse as the months pass by, they don't have a clue of how to stop it... It could continue for years, let us hope not.
The seeming high cancer rates are refective of two main things:
1. Successful treatments have been developed for many other diiseses that used to kill people first - notably heart disease.
2. The presence of numerous carcinogens in the environment from manufacturing and agriculture and even consumer products - the vast majority of them being chemical, not radiological - for example the BPA and Phtalates in food containers and plastic products or Formeldahide in wood products. The one radiological cancer risk that is significant - radon in dwellings, is naturally ocurring. Oh, and possibly cell phones.
P: Your first point is ludicrous if it's intended to counter the cancer rates impacting young people. As for your 2nd point, I harp on this idea that the environment of EPA deregulation (or toothless acts at best) has led to so MANY toxic offenders, that any attorney's task of establishing a verifiable link with ONE component amid an epidemic of disorders is vastly undermined.
You argue FOR the climate of trespass, just as you argue FOR the official authorities and their narrative as per 911. It's rather curious how you're always found on the "pro-establishment" side of so many equations, a purported engineer who's so successful that his days are spent on these threads? His information, frequently of a deflective sort, since the indefensible proves damned difficult TO defend. I notice how you neither confirm nor deny that you are Sabo, plausible deniability... wonder where that reflex comes from?
PJD,,, You ignore the (fact) that cancer rates, especially in children, have risen to such abnormally high rates ever since we bagan using nuclear energy.
And you wrote the following... (" The seeming high cancer rates are refective of two main things: 1... Successful treatments have been developed for many other diiseses that used to kill people first - notably heart disease.")... There is nothing "seeming" about it. Forty years ago cancer in children was pretty rare,,, not anymore and there were many cancer causing chemicals in our atmosphere and waters 40 years ago.
So what on Earth has that comment you wrote have to do with half a millio a year dying from cancer in the US, million more being teated for cancer and cancer rates in children have soared beyond belief since Chernobyl and TMI? That is a Strawman tactic argument from you (pjd) and is not even a good one at that.. In fact it's silly nonsense.
Than you Siouxrose, very well said.
And my point #2?
And can you provide some citations to support your claim about childhood cancer?