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Now Arizona Wants to Allow Concealed Guns on Campuses
Arizona's weak gun laws could reach a new low this spring.
When the Arizona state legislature reconvenes today for the first day of the new session, two gun bills will be on the table for debate.
One bill--H2001--will allow faculty members to carry concealed weapons on campus.
The other bill--H2014--will prevent educational institutions from stopping a person from carrying a weapon with a valid permit.
In the blazing summer of 2009, Gov. Jan Brewer passed a law that allows Arizona residents to carry concealed weapons into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.
Last spring, Brewer took Arizona one step further when she signed the "Firearm Freedom Act" that permits certain weapons and ammunition manufactured in Arizona to be sold without following any federal registration or regulations.
Brewer declared: "Politicians in Washington should not attempt to get between Arizonans and their constitutional rights."
More infamously, Brewer also signed another bill last April that allows Arizonans to carry concealed guns without a permit.
In the case of the tragic Tucson shooting yesterday, alleged assailant Jared Loughner fired 31 shots from a Glock 9-millimeter, a semiautomatic pistol he purchased legally in Tucson.
Pima County Sheriff Clarent Dupnik has been a long-time critic of the bill to allow weapons on campus. In a 2008 oped for the Tucson Citizen, he recalled a fatal shooting incident on the University of Arizona campus that led to chaos. Dupnik wrote: "Enacting legislation to allow people to carry concealed weapons on school campuses is not the solution to this problem. The reality is that such actions will further endanger innocent bystanders in these situations."
Nearly a year ago, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence ranked Arizona as one of the weakest states in the country for gun control. The Brady Campaign gave Arizona only two points on a scorecard of 100.
"Since Arizona does not require Brady criminal background checks on all firearm sales, including those at gun shows, gun traffickers don't need to leave the state to funnel illegal guns to felons and gang members," said Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Campaign. "Arizona officials have done nothing in the past year to stop the flow of illegal guns within the state, including closing the loophole that allows dangerous people to walk into gun shows and buy guns without background checks.""Passing any one of these proposals would make the state even more dangerous," Hildy Saizow, Executive Director of Arizonans for Gun Safety, warned last year. "At a time when citizens are deeply concerned about budget cutbacks and jobs, this legislature is placing priorities on easing gun laws where there is little or no public support."
For state Rep. Daniel R. Patterson (D-Tucson), a gun owner and hunter, and an NRA member who earned a B-rating from the gun organization, the debate over H2001 bill to allow concealed weapons on campus "is a decision better made by regents and university presidents. They are in a much better position to decide what is safe." Patterson added: "I oppose this political meddling from the capital on campuses across the state. We need to get serious about balancing the budget and getting Arizona's economy on track."
Will Gov. Brewer and the state legislature listen now--or continue Arizona down the path of gun violence?
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162 Comments so far
Show AllThe inevitable result of a capitalistic system: My stuff must be protected no matter what the cost; I ME MINE and to hell with you
What if half a dozen people had guns at the time and showed up at different times? One guy gets the shooter but is still pointing the gun. Another guy comes around the corner and shoots that guy thinking he is the shooter. Then someone shows up and thinks that guy is the shooter and gets him. The more guns, the bigger the possible shoot out. Look what happened in the Iraq square where the millitary and the mercs opened fire on each other.
If H2014 passes, perhaps no one will go to schools of higher learning in Arizona any more, for fear of a campus "going postal" event.
Maybe that's the idea: keep the people as uneducated and uninformed as possible so that they join the Empire's military.
Carrying guns on campus will give the cariers the power position. If it is the right wingers who carry them and they are debating issues in class and are raising their voice on a heated issue with a side arm attached to them it, could certainly put constaints on the persons who are on the opposite side of the debate.
For a good idea on what's ailing Arizona, see this article: http://harpers.org/archive/2010/07/0083023
The state gave birth to the Goldwater movement and also was the last to recognize MLK Day.
Many many evil people of corporate/government wrongdoing are given/rewarded upper management "education" jobs in this country to keep an eye on all of those other liberal teachers who have to "tow the capitalistic line" and brainwash the next generation of our kids.
Me thinks they are getting a bit nervous, being so "EXPOSED".
America: the country that has lost the ability to learn anything.
Seriously, NOTHING can be used in this country anymore as a teachable moment.
Stolen elections, domestic terror/false flags, hurricanes, oil spills, economic crashes, rampant shootings etc etc
We as a country have not responded to a SINGLE incident that could be included above with a shred of having learned a single lesson - not one.
Instead America consistently will choose not just the wrong choice but the choice that will actually make the original problem worse.
In fact, we should have a new national motto.
Instead of Aristotle's "We cannot learn without pain."
Simply:
The United States: WE CANNOT LEARN.
That's too harsh. You learn.... You juraw seem to always draw the wrong conclusions.
While others would make access to guns more difficult in response to shootings (see Australia) you put them in everyone's hands.
Maybe Americans should look at the 'solutions' that pop into their heads as response to problems and then do the opposite....
Boycotts work. If everyone who is the slightest bit upset by Arizona's current rush into insanity makes it a point to avoid spending any money in Arizona (Arizona businesses, travel, etc.) and tries to influence any organizations to which they belong to do the same, the Arizona Chamber of Commerce will begin to howl. I have never heard of a GOP official anywhere who does not bow down to the wishes of the C of C.
Good point, but too many people want to come here to golf in the winter. On the other hand, other states are trying to copy Arizona's laws. This country didn't stop being divided just because the Civil War ended.
Rather than ganging-up on Arizona, it seems like more states want to join the gang.
Sad.
I'm glad AZ students will be able to bring their guns to school. Maybe AZ can go the full Monty and outlaw textbooks...
I'm all for concealed weapons on the floor of the Arizona state legislature.
----Post-Constitutional America
Just insane.
Brewer declared: "Politicians in Washington should not attempt to get between Arizonans and their constitutional rights."
LOL!
Yeah, all Constitutional Rights except: 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27
Sit down Brewer. You're another right-wing fool who's destroying freedom in the name of Right #2.
Ms. Brewer seems hell-bent on killing off her constituents.
withdrawn by commenter
The good thing about the death penality in Texas
--fewer Texans --- G. Carlin
Arizona is becoming a magnet for rightists--and maybe that is OK. If they are in Arizona, they aren't in California or Oregon or Michigan. The country is becoming polarized and that has its advantages. Progressive solutions to problems can be tried out in states like Vermont, for example. The other states can muddle along with their Bush-Obama trickle-down economics theory and their private health insurance model. I, as a progressive, would consider moving to Vermont. I will never move to Arizona, Oklahoma, or the South. Rightists can run their states and force the rest of us to pay for their foolishness in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, and wherever, but they cannot intrude upon what we wish to do within the borders of the states we control. Let Arizona be as far right as they want--they are simply taking in the worst crap out of the cesspool.
You are aware that Vermont has even MORE firearms freedom than Arizona???
Different type of people and situations. Most of Vermont is not large cities, it's very small towns and rural districts. Out there, like in all kinds of places in the western states, it makes sense to have a gun for all kinds of reasons. That isn't the same as living in downtown Phoenix or Tuscon. You don't have many wolf or coyote attacks in downtown Tuscon.
And last I checked, Vermont wasn't in the lead of gun related homicides, even in the big towns.
"And last I checked, Vermont wasn't in the lead of gun related homicides, even in the big towns."
Which is, of course, my whole point. Firearms freedoms and a low, declining, crime rate tend to go together. You want to see astronomical murder rates, you need to go to somewhere where the people are forbidden to defend themselves, like Washington, DC, or Chicago.
Maybe if this country would stop declaring war on itself with every single problem, and get into something OTHER than militaristic euphemisms for everything, we could see a different solution. But we have a war on drugs, a war on welfare, a war on this, that and the other thing. Is it any wonder that the ONLY way we seem to be able to look at things is across the barrel of a gun, even if it's metaphorical?
What we have is a country that never grew up past the childish infatuation with weaponry and violence. We were STARTING to change that, starting to come together as a country, even if it was in down times, and then came Reagan. Told us all that is was our RIGHT to hate whoever we wanted, and that we should only care about ourselves and to hell with everyone else. That is the surest way I know of to destroy a country from the inside. And everyone getting along and working together for the good of the country really pissed off the right. They saw it as a sign of weakness, first off, and sign of solidarity among the rabble, which they had to stop. It's far easier to rule over a divided people, and that is exactly what they wanted. They have done that and done it with a passion. And it's no surprise to me that we are now in a place where we have NO respect even for ourselves. The money has done it's job, and done it very well. They appealed to the lowest in each of us, and millions bought into that, thinking we could still have a society that way. What a shame to see that we were so easily fooled, even though lots of us tried like hell to stop that from happening and took lots of abuse for saying so.
I can't say that everyone having a gun is a good idea, and I can't say that everyone should have access to a gun, either. I know LOTS of people I would never consider giving a gun, or any weapon, really. The fact is that some people are NOT going to be good candidates for weapons, and if you're going to protect anyone you have to accept that as fact. There are so many factors in any of this that I don't think you can say it's the number of guns that makes anything safe at all. How do you say that society is safer because of them when we lead the world in gun violence? When our children are FAR more likely to die in a gun related issue in their own home than in any other country in the world?
Granted, the gun in and of itself is not the real issue, though there aren't many other products that cause the same level of death, other than cigarettes. Perhaps we should really be looking at the basic maturity level that we lower ourselves to in this country. Over the last 30 years, we have become a very selfish, childish country. That is due to our "leadership" working actively to MAKE us that way. There is NO attempt to make ourselves better people, and there is NO call for it from the top of our country, either. Kennedy called us to do the hard things, to make the world a better place, to use our talents to improve the lot of mortal man. The right says that is bullshit, we don't NEED a national goal of any kind, just go shopping. Which do you think leads to a better, more mature society? Having lived with BOTH of those ideas, I know which one *I* prefer. And it doesn't involve shooting anyone.
BTW, we could shut down the manufacturing of guns today and it wouldn't matter. There are FAR more guns already than we could ever use, and every man woman and child could have at least 5, from the stats I've seen. Do we REALLY NEED more guns?
Hmmm...and what about countries that exert gun control--like Germany and England, for example. If I am not mistaken, they have far fewer gun-related deaths than the United States. An inconvenient truth for the gun folks?
The violent crime rate in the UK is WORSE than in the US. Switzerland, on the other hand, is MUCH more heavily armed than the US, and the violent crime rate is LOWER.
Inconvenient truths?
And the Swiss are highly trained in the military, which is a requirement of citizenship there. They are well trained in how to use a gun, and understand it's use and the consequences of it's use.
We, on the other hand, have NO requirement that people actually learn how to use a gun properly, be aware of it's proper use, and even it's consequences. We let each state control itself, by and large, and that leads to a patchwork of regulations that can be overrun just by going to another state. The guns used in NYC, for instance, to commit crimes frequently come from Virginia, which has some of the loosest laws on the eastern seaboard. They just recently put a limit on the number of guns you can buy at one time, for instance. Our "system" is essentially NO system at all.
The examples of European countries don't hold that much water, because they have their own issues, some of which we have no examples of our own. But they are at least smart enough to not declare war on damn near every part of their society and to keep using militaristic terms to describe EVERYTHING. We have wars on our bad habits, our financial situations, our health care, EVERYTHING. And all this military talk is NOT good for what is SUPPOSED to be a peaceful, civil society.
The Swiss mainly use their guns to shoot holes in the cheese.
WJM: I hit the reply (to your comment) button by mistake. It was meant as a reply to T_F. Sorry.
>>Inconvenient truths?
Bald-faced lies is more like it. Gun ownership in US households is almost double that of Switzerland. Handgun ownership is well beyond that. Cities in the US with a million people have more murders than all of the UK combined with a population of 60 million. Furthermore, having lived in a large urban area, I can assure that most crime goes unreported.
Please, take your lies, obfuscations and distortions to some other site. A tea bagger like yourself has no business being here.
UK is a violent society compared to many other countries but according to Richard Wilkinsond and Kate Pickett it has a much lower violent crime rate than the US. In their book they point out that the US is well ahead of Europe in general when it comes to homicide.
em-y, could you please explain why you think that the "UK is a violent society compared to many other countries".
Can you name these "other countries"?
What is this statement based on?
Have you ever visited the UK and been affected by violent crime?
Maybe in the US, the media portrays the UK as a violent place, where you are in danger of being shot or stabbed, every time you go out of the house. Maybe it suits the US media to concentrate on another country's problems rather than admit to its own, which are far greater in comparison.
I'm not at home in the US and can't really tell how the US media portrays the UK.
My comment was based amongst others on statistics quoted by Richard Wilkinson in 'The Spirit Level'. The 'other countries' are Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Australia, Spain to name a few.
I didn't mean to say that one should be scared to leave the house when living in the UK and I'm quite certain that I didn't say it.
Cheers.
See below
Why stay in America? Go to Paris or Berlin and check out their crime rates. Or how about Australia? Here too - as in Europe - people are 'forbidden to defend themselves'.
Let's see if I understand this.
Crazy Person A goes to the supermarket with a concealed weapon and shoots a congressperson and several others. Neighbor B has a concealed weapon and in this ideal scenario comes in with guns blazin' and shoots crazy person A. In the presence of deadly violence, adrenaline pumping, only a fraction of a second to think, things start to happen, and happen quickly. Meanwhile, neighbor C comes in with her concealed weapon, finds a room of dead or wounded citizens, finds neighbor B standing over the carnage, and in a reasonable assumption, shoots neighbor B assuming that person is the felon. Meanwhile, neighbor D comes in with her concealed weapon, finds a room of dead or wounded citizens, finds neighbor C standing over the carnage, shoots neighbor C assuming that person is the felon. Meanwhile, neighbor E comes in with her concealed weapon...
Put another way, when you start shooting in a public area, how are you going to know that you are really shooting the right person? and if lots of people feel empowered to start shooting, how are even the police going to figure out what is going on when they turn up? Sounds like those who want to stay alive better stay far away from Arizona.
Wiliardu
Excellent observation in an, unfortunately, all too likely scenario that could very well happen in gun happy America.
Thank God for Arizona: the Mexican drug cartels have an endless supply of military grade weapons. Those republicans sure know how to drum up business. Amen.
Yep. Thank God that in Arizona you can buy military machine guns, RPGs, and hand grenades (The Mexican Army had confiscated over a thousand grenades in the last year) at your corner 7-11.
Oops? You CAN'T? But, but, but, what about all the progressive propaganda? Were they lying???
"Firearm Freedom Act".......simply stunning.
Dear RMG:
and, if they add "stun guns" to the list, it really will be" stunning."
Those of you talking trash about Arizona's gun laws likely live in a nice kush area with white fences and leave your doors unlocked at night. There are serious crimes taking place every day in Arizona. Sex Trafficking, Kidnapping, Rape, Murder, Drug trafficking, etc due to many illegal immigrants entering and leaving the state as they wish. What are people supposed to do when the government does not secure our own borders and protect the US citizens that live there? Currently the US is spending borrowed money on building roads/schools/embassies in the middle of nowhere Afganny, yet they don't seem to give two shits about what is happening around the borders.
As far as Hildy Saizow, the comment "At a time when citizens are deeply concerned about budget cutbacks and jobs, this legislature is placing priorities on easing gun laws where there is little or no public support" lacks merit. I am actually surprised this was posted considering this website is supposed to be backing up their articles with facts. Saying there is no support is not only false but is equal to the bowlshit fed daily on FOX news.
The people who hate on these laws are mostly the people whos states aren't having the same issues that other states are having. Those states who want to follow in Arizona's path probabaly have similar issues that the government turns a blind eye to.
I know most people are going to BLAST this post and frankly I don't care. Those people don't know what it is like to live day to day in a hostile area. Go call your kids to come home for dinner, they are out playing around the safe neighborhood.
"There are serious crimes taking place every day in Arizona. Sex Trafficking, Kidnapping, Rape, Murder, Drug trafficking, etc due to many illegal immigrants entering and leaving the state as they wish. What are people supposed to do when the government does not secure our own borders and protect the US citizens that live there?"
Exactly how many of your State, County, and various civic LEOs have retired, quit or been let go due to the ongoing economic crisis/Collapse the entire US is suffering? I mean, budget cuts and tax breaks for Corporations and the wealthy Elite have to be made, so sacrifices have to be made somewhere, right?
Non Serviam - I will not serve.
There are times when I just take a deep breath and wonder just what kind of nation America is.
I cannot in my wildest dreams conceive of a situation where anyone (bar the police force) would need to carry guns of any description on a University campus.
And yes we do have our share of serious crimes but we choose not to exacerbate the situation by enabling people to buy guns easily.
That said by an Australian, born in the UK.
Too right, Mate. They are all mad over here in the United States of Asylums.
A nice time to have a gun on campus is when someone is attacking you.
You should go to college somewhere else. Some place that isn't infested with nitwits who bring carbines to class and defective egos. Hint: not Arizona.
Geneviève Bergeron, civil engineering student
Hélène Colgan, mechanical engineering student
Nathalie Croteau, mechanical engineering student
Barbara Daigneault, mechanical engineering student
Anne-Marie Edward, chemical engineering student
Maud Haviernick, materials engineering student
Maryse Laganière, budget clerk
Maryse Leclair, materials engineering student
Anne-Marie Lemay, mechanical engineering student
Sonia Pelletier, mechanical engineering student
Michèle Richard, materials engineering student
Annie St-Arneault, mechanical engineering student
Annie Turcotte, materials engineering student
Barbara Klucznik-Widajewicz, nursing student
Let's see if I understand this.
Scenario 1. Student A has been drinking. Is a bit late on an assignment, the significant other is seeming distant, job prospects seem bad, maybe its the foreigners who are taking the jobs. Maybe it's a frat house. A sometime friend B, diss's Student A over any number of things. Student A, with impaired judgment, who hasn't really had enough life experience to truly judge consequences of every action, gets into a fight, throws a blow, gets a blow, gives a black eye, gets a black eye, staggers home. Next morning, wakes up sober, calls up B, says we shouldn't have fought, and they get together later for dinner.
Scenario 2. Student A has been drinking. Is a bit late on an assignment,... Has a concealed weapon. Feels bad about his life, feels he is being attacked, threatens the other kid B, with a gun which may or may not go off. If it does go off, then that will certainly be a life-changing experience for both of them. Even if it doesn't go off, then A should be arrested and put in jail for threatening someone with deadly force. If I were on the jury I would certainly be the first to convict him. No nice dinner the following day!
Have you ever been on campus? have you ever been around students who have been drinking? doing any other mind altering, judgment degrading substances? or when you think you're girlfriend or boyfriend is being threatened, stolen from you, etc. have you ever seen such people get unreasonably pissed off, perhaps in ways they might regret the next morning? Happiness is a warm gun, eh?
Nice fantasies willardu. You didn't address the issue I brought up. How about the scenario of a student at a university like La Salle or Temple, both located in dangerous parts of north Philadelphia. Maybe a student about to be robbed (or worse)would like to have a gun to defend themselves.
Not to mention that it has actually happened that armed students have stopped a crazed killer on campus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting
The disarmed students couldn't stop one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre
Surely someone was packing heat at the shopping mall. What happened? Nice society we have where lunatics carry assault weapons. All for the sake of gun manufacturer profits. Even the most grizzled wack job sees the need for some sane regulation. As it stands, the gun industry is having their way with us and the results are fatal.
It's not the gun manufacturers that have their way with us, it's the govt. Just look at how much money we fork over to them because of the organized robbery they call taxes.
"Government: If you refuse to pay unjust taxes, your property will be confiscated. If you attempt to defend your property, you will be arrested. If you resist arrest, you will be clubbed. If you defend yourself against clubbing, you will be shot dead. These procedures are known as the Rule of Law."
--Edward Abbey