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Today's Top News
Kucinich to Force Vote on Withdrawing Troops From Afghanistan
Anti-war Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) says he will force a vote on a hard date for withdrawing U.S. troops from Afghanistan on the heels of reports they could remain there at least through 2014.
Kucinich said Wednesday that he will force a vote via privileged resolution at the beginning of the next Congress on ending the war in Afghanistan by the end of 2011.
"The withdrawal of our troops must be driven by Congress, not the corrupt president of Afghanistan," the Ohio congressman said in a statement.
His announcement comes after The New York Times reported that the Obama administration has stressed that it will leave troops in place at least through the end of 2014 in an effort to persuade Afghans and the Taliban the U.S. intends to complete its mission.
That troop commitment would far exceed the July 2011 date set by the administration last December as the time when troop withdrawals will begin.
Liberal Democrats in Congress have become increasingly frustrated with the progress of the war against the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan, expressing concern over the cost of the war, the loss of American lives and instability within the country.
"The Obama administration must withdraw our troops now. Our presence there is counterproductive, it keeps our troops in harm's way and it opens to the door for the expansion of the massive corruption of the Karzai regime," said Kucinich.
Kucinich introduced a resolution in July that mandated the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Pakistan, which was handily defeated.
Republicans, who largely support U.S. engagement in Afghanistan, take control of the House next year.
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187 Comments so far
Show AllI should have added, "I HOPE". More hope, ya know?
GW 6:15 Here Here
It's "Hear! Hear!"
Or perhaps more appropriately in this case, it's "hear here" ....
"Thus it MY opinion that if he truly is a man of principle, he would LEAVE the Democratic party and work with other progressives in forming a truly viable third party."
Once again, GW, you nailed it ....
At least Kucinich's conscience is clear. he has no control over the conscience of the other members of congress. Let the people in power who support the war without end rot in hell.
Remember Congressman Dennis Kucinich's :" A Prayer For America" It was beautiful but he is not perfect. Cut him some slack.
"...but he is not perfect. Cut him some slack." (genie)
That sums it up and why I got embroiled in all this back-and-forth crap on here I now apologize for and regret starting.
People on here and elsewhere D.K. is bashed, berated, and battered, expect that PERFECTION genie mentioned. Geez, Folks! We are stuck in a corrupt, broken system; we got SOME health care reform because of D.K.'s vote; he is constantly working FOR "We the People" and not making us second class to the upper class; he speaks from the heart and not a teleprompter; he takes ABSOLUTELY NO CORPORATE DONATIONS; he stood truly alone in his attempt to impeach Cheney and Bush; he admitted, ADMITTED to seeing a UFO. (As an ex-air traffic controller I can tell you THAT takes courage!)
The point being: he is the best HERO that we have right now, in my opinion and I am flabbergasted that alleged Progressives continue to pick him apart because he isn't "PERFECT", in YOUR opinion.
My Gawd, let's focus on the positives sometimes, eh? When there are so many Pluses on Kucinich's tote board and so minuscule the minuses, why are you digging, digging, digging, at the man?
Maybe the problem with the system is expecting too much from those elected and those who write on these pages to do anything but hunt for ways to pick apart EVERYTHING that isn't PERFECT. Well, this is my last comment on this long thread. Ever notice Kucinich threads have been historically long? Think about it....
"and regret starting."
I can understand why you would, it did nothing but give the "critics" further opportunity to cement their case.
"we got SOME health care reform because of D.K.'s vote;"
This is what you fail to comprehend - it is not that he voted for an "imperfect" bill, it's that he voted for a lousy bill, one that will, in fact, set back the movement for real reform ...
"he is the best HERO that we have right now, in my opinion"
Well, what can one say to that, except that if we can't do better than that, we are screwed .....
"Maybe the problem with the system is expecting too much from those elected"
Au contraire, IMO the problem with "the system" is that we don't expect enough and continue to defend them when they fail to stand up for what is necessary.
"this is my last comment on this long thread."
Is that a promise?
"Think about it..."
Good advice .....
More political theater from the fraudulent Kucinich and I see many idiots once again swallowing it whole.
Kucinich is a sham designed to keep the left thinking that there's some sort of hope for the Democratic Party. He always ends up supporting a pro-corporatist policy or pro-war Democrat for president like he did in 2000 or 2004 or 2008. He has absolutely no credibility, he talks a good game but talk means nothing as far as Democrats are concerned.
The only way one would take this con-man Kucinich seriously is if he resigned his corrupt party and ran as an Independent, exposing Obama, Pelosi and Reid for the mobsters that they are. The Democratic Party is rotten to the core as much as the Republicans, they always have been, there's absolutely nothing anyone can do to remedy it.
Delia is spot on.
Throw the baby out with the bath water again? The Dems suck! We all know that BUT if D.K. is going to continue to serve "We the People", he can't do it if not elected. What, pray tell, would be his chances of getting elected if he went Green?
Maybe sometime in the future but NOT NOW! Use logic, please, instead of emotion and anger at the wrong target.
Always, always the promise of "the future". Just wait. Just be patient. Just work hard. Eventually a few crumbs will trickle down. Well, some of us are just too damned TIRED of WAITING for those stale crumbs. We've been WAITING for things to get better since the Eisenhower administration. So, I guess maybe in another 50 or 100 years things will get better. Just wait. Be patient. Trust in your "heroes".
Dkshaw,
Well stated.
You're delusional. Kucinich is a sham, did you even read what I wrote? Keeping reelecting him is like reelecting Republicans or their clones, the Democrats.
"if D.K. is going to continue to serve "We the People", he can't do it if not elected. What, pray tell, would be his chances of getting elected if he went Green?"
What's the point of getting him elected if, when he is, he doesn't serve "we the people"? if all the "progressives" like DK ran as Greens and brought their faithful followers like you with them, their chances would be considerably better ....
"Maybe sometime in the future but NOT NOW!"
MLK might have said, if not now, when?
"Use logic, please, "
It is "logic" such as yours that has left us in this mess for so long ....
P.S. I thought you weren't going to make any more comments? Or are you taking a cue from DK and doing what you said you wouldn't?
I am assuming his constituents recognize his name by now.
the label "Democrat" no longer is a boost to his career, the brand has been tarnished.
And I suspect that if he did run on a, say, Green ticket, very likely at least SOME of his constituents would say "oh, he's with Green now? OK, I'll vote for any Green on the ballot, they must be better."
To paraphrase DK: The withdrawal of our troops will not be driven by Congress or the corrupt President of the United States or Israel. Karzi has nothing much to do with anything except to do what he has been told to do and Congress is soooo corrupt that it is beyond repair. Dennis, I believe you are a man of integrity; now prove it! By leaving all the criminals in your party behind and get the hell out!
concur!
time to walk the talk.
DK was just on msnbc a few minutes ago railing against proposed cuts in social security and medicare. He did not once mention cutting the military budget. I wonder if he'll dig his heels in and adamantly state that he will NOT vote for cutting those "entitlement" programs. I guess we'll see, eh?
Well it all depends on the dynamic - if the party leadership, including Obama, decides to vote yes, and they need his vote to get there, my prediction is, as in Obamacare, he will vote yes. If, on the other hand they decide to vote no, he will be safe to go along. What his healthcare vote told me, and why i changed my previous favorable opinion of him, is that he will, if "called" upon, sacrifice principle for party .....
Precisely. Party first. The people and the right thing are always secondary.
Democratic Theatre -
In March 2010, the House overwhelmingly rejected to pull out of Afghanistan by the end of 2010 with 189 Democrats voting to reject the pullout.
In July 2010, the House voted overwhelmingly to reject to remove US forces from Pakistan with 209 Democrats voting to reject the removal.
In July 2010, about 75% of the House voted for $59 billion more to fund the Afghanistan war, with 148 Democrats supporting the funding.
Bottom Line: Kucinich had a chance to make a difference with his health care vote and he caved. These other votes are for show as the Democrats don't pay any political consequences for the votes. The Democrats know since both parties vote for wars and most Americans don't vote third party, they won't pay any political consequences.
Not one person posting here has the slightest clue what Dennis is really up against and how much he has done for America.
oh we know what he's up to, getting on Air Force One for free and caving to corporate America after each ride.
Go apologize and make excuses for cowardliness some place else.
I would like to know what the dem o rats told Dennis on that Air Force One ride. Sounds to me, like the Mafia taking one for a little ride. The only way I could forgive DK is if they threatened his family, but if that happened to him then, if he had any principles, when he got off the plane, he should have said he was resigning from Congress and told them to take their job and shove it!
Indeed.
During the Vietnam war Amerikkkans took Viet Cong prisoners of war up a few thousand feet in helicopters and threatened to throw them out if they didn't give information about their troop positions, numbers, etc.
That whole intimidation charade that Barry and Rahm subjected Kucinich to reminded me of the above mentioned Vietnam scenario. In this case they only symbolically threatened to throw Kucinich out of the plane, but in an administration that uses torture and murder to complete its agenda, Kucinich probably had good reason to be fearful. After all, look what happened to Minnesota Sen. Paul Wellstone after he bucked the military industrial kkkomplex.
Yes Tom, " Kucinich probably had good reason to be fearful ". But then he should have exposed the evil rhetoric that he was told on Air Force One, instead he said nothing.
Yeah, we just LOVE when Dennis caved and voted YES on Obama's health insurance cartel "deform" bill.Good going, Dennis!!!!
I can hardly wait to be FORCED to buy into the insurance cartel! What joy!
And how about those capped Big Pharma drug prices?
Oh that's right--we did not obtain capped drug prices as every other country in the world has. Oh well, that sucks but I guess Obama et al doesn't have a "magic wand" to pull this off. Aw shucks......
Dennis 'ol buddy, keep up the good work/window dressing for the corporate DLC Dems!
I'm so impressed with you.
Not.
There are a few but they are being overwhelmed by the nay-sayers, perfection-seekers, and anger-mongers. When this man disappears from office, as predicted by another "positive poster", then where will the voice of reason, truth, heart, and rightness come from? Ah, what's the use....
There's that word again-- "perfection."
It sounds very Obamabot-like.
Expecting an improved Medicare to be open to ALL who want to enroll and for Americans to obtain capped drug prices is NOT seeking "perfection."
Get a clue, it's what most civilized countries have already done.
It's seeking normalcy.
I would get over being an apologist and see just how far we rank against other countries in delivering health care.
It seems to me that you are more interested in sticking up for Dennis than you are sticking up for the morals of health CARE as a human right.
I think defending Medicare for all superseeds any importance on towing the Party line or members of the Party.
The Democratic and Republican Parties--are FAILURES and Dennis Kucinich has done NOTHING to change that.
If Dennis were serious about real reform, he'd leave that cesspool of the Democratic Party and go Independent--and he certainly would not have voted for Obama's health care shit.
Chelsey,
You nailed it, said it better than I, that IS the bottom line .....
"then where will the voice of reason, truth, heart, and rightness come from?"
Ah, so there's your problem, you have limited your search for "reason, truth, heart, and rightness" to the Dem party - big mistake .....
There are a whole lot of folks who speak for those things outside that party ....
the zionist war criminals are doing their best shilling job, trying to skew the left's self perception by trolling in progressive sites.
standard sleazy tactics. a few can leave a bunch of non-sense under multiple alias trashing the sites.
Please enlighten us.
I know what Dennis has done.
He gave us hope and then stabbed the American people in the back when he voted for Obomination health care deform.
Gee, thanks!
It won't be too long before Dennis abandons this position when his seat is threatened. Like all the Democrats in office, he puts his career before his principles. Then again, Democrats generally have no principles. The "big tent" and election victories are far more important that being a strong, committed opposition.
I used to like Kucinich, but not anymore and never again. He's a joke to his own party and a joke to the whole nation. His buddies in the Democratic Party hate the Left. We're all "idiot liberals" and "the Professional Left" to them. Kucinich is irrelevant all around. No one cares what he thinks... unless you count his mindless groupies on the Internet. It seems these days that what passes for politics is merely blind loyalty to individual politicians or a political party.
I know some of you will get pissed at my comment. So what? You offer nothing meaningful or relevant, except your tired and pointless personality cults and partisanship. Even your bullshit "political activism" is going nowhere slowly. In the end, I guess all that matters is that some people can pat themselves on the back!
another neo-nazi shill. obviously these neo-nazi zionists are peeing in their pants.
Oh goodness! Get over yourself! So I'm a neo-nazi because I see through Democratic Party hypocrisy? I'm sorry to see your such a shallow and ignorant person.
And by the way steve, I'm glad you support the pro-war, pro-torture, pro-corporate agenda of the Democratic Party without holding them accoutable or questioning their motives. They always need more spineless, amoral herd-followers like you!
"it seems these days that what passes for politics is merely blind loyalty to individual politicians or a political party."
Yup, more's the pity. it is our failure to get really serious about the political process and use it for what it could be used for that, imo, has been our downfall .....
"Kucinich said Wednesday that he will force a vote via privileged resolution at the beginning of the next Congress on ending the war in Afghanistan by the end of 2011."
Is the congressman unable to introduce a privileged resolution during the lame duck session?
Perhaps he wants to avoid subjecting his Democratic colleagues to the embarrassment of showing where they really stand on the war. Waiting until the Republicans are in control will provide the cover under which they can cast their wholly symbolic and meaningless votes for peace.
Other then the fact that this war cost us a $hit load of money I feel that it's necessary to stay in Afghanistan.
This fool needs to stop pretending like his forced vote is going to do something, and work on the economy. If we withdraw now, then we will abso-f'n-loutly have another attack on American soil.
I am in noooo way a irrational die-hard-conservative that would side with Wolfowits or the moves indoctrinated to our new republic (IE patriot act, tourture, or drone warfare: even though killer robots are pretty cool!)
However, we have been lucky with the cards we have been dealt. The table has been tilted in our favor and to take advantage of that is our only means. These people (Islamo-fascist) don't care about their lively hood.. in fact they are willing to die for it due to some b.s. religious rhetoric they are spoon fed by wahabisim. The only way we can solve this radical threat is to have the rational... super cool and non-aberrant Muslims convince their own people to settle the Fk down. Exert pressure on them... castrate them from religious participation... etc.
Because we all know there are plenty of great and awesomely respectable Muslims out there who don't deserve the stigma that they have been dealt since this (once again religious war) has started.
That sounds nice West. So why aren't you in Afghanistan? Well, we know the answer to that: you're another gutless, bloodthirty, racist chickenhawk. You love the idea behind "the White Man's Burden" and bombing innocent Afghan civilians to smithereens, but you don't have the courage or integrity to go over there and do any of the dirty work yourself. This war is like football to you. You're happily cheerleading it from the safety of your bedroom while not being affected by it at all!
Save your phony "humanitarianism" for your next Republican block party. Unless you end up going there yourself, spare us your bullshit.
Where does race fit into this? How am I blood thirsty? you don't think I would rather spend the (little) resources we have on education, infrastructure, and healthcare...
well let me tell you, you're wrong... and from what I can surmise from your incoherent rambling / jargon about the "white mans burden" you must be a class act yourself.
What have you done? Are you just another smug activist? In fact I voted for the democrats across the board in the last presidential election and within my congressional district so gettt off it.
Ohh, and as for going over to serve, I just completed my ROTC training, but you know everything about me and are the largest of intellects... so I must be a hawkish brute ready to destroy civilizations and drink the blood of our "non-white" enemies children.
"I just completed my ROTC training, but you know everything about me and are the largest of intellects... so I must be a hawkish brute ready to destroy civilizations and drink the blood of our "non-white" enemies children."
Are you looking forward to killing people? Why do you want to kill foreigners? Surely you don't think your mission will be "in support of our freedoms"? I don't know if you are a 'hawkish brute' YET, but your brainwashing will lead you to become one. Please, for your own sake, and for others', stay out of the military. You will destroy others and you will pay for it with your own self destruction. You will not be able to live with the things you have done. It will haunt you for the rest of your life. Please don't do this.
"In fact I voted for the democrats across the board in the last presidential election and within my congressional district so gettt off it."
Ah, so THAT'S the problem, you believe in the (other) party of war .....
So why did you join ROTC? Do you really think this is "serving the country"? Do you know who is really being "served" by this war? Why don't you talk to a few anti-war vets?
Race comes into this because you clearly look down your nose at the Afghan people. You believe that our country has the right to occupy and abuse the Afghani people however it pleases. You not only think our nation is entitled to occupy Afghanistan, but you somehow believe that the Afghan people are unable to fix their own country, that they need ignorant, condenscending assholes like you telling them how to live at gunpoint.
If you really knew what was going on, and you don't, you'd see that our country is doing more to destroy Afghanistan than help it. We're not building infrastructure, health care or education over there. All our military has managed to do is further destroy their nation and put it in the hands of drug dealing warlords while we murder and torture Afghan civilians. And clearly you have no problems with that.
And who gives a shit that you voted for Democrats? They're just as pro-war as the Republicans! They're supporting the same war crimes and atrocities. They don't care anymore about the Afghani people than you do!
So yes, you are a hawkish thug. Your ROTC training doesn't mean you've actually been in the military or seen combat. You're going over there as either a soldier or Marine, who will be ordered to torture and kill Afghan people indiscriminately.
You don't care nor do I think you ever have cared about Afghanistan. You are indeed ready to destroy the lives of innocent Afghan civilians while patting yourself on the back for being their supposed heroic American savior.
"am in noooo way a irrational die-hard-conservative that would side with Wolfowits or the moves indoctrinated to our new republic (IE patriot act, tourture, or drone warfare: even though killer robots are pretty cool!)"
No indeed, you are no such thing.
You are an absolute idiot.
The USA is slaughtering Taliban and Pastuns who never had any intention of harming anyone outside their borders until a greedy savage invader attacked and occupied their nation.
And yet they still seem mostly to desire only to drive the stormtroopers from their nation and be left in Peace.