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Chinese Dissident Wins Nobel Peace Prize; China Outraged
Imprisoned Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo won the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize today for "his long and non-violent struggle for fundamental human rights" - a prize likely to enrage the Chinese government, which had warned the Nobel committee not to honor him.
Liu Xiaobo Thorbjoern Jagland, the Norwegian Nobel Committee chairman, said Liu Xiaobo was a symbol for the fight for human rights in China and the government should expect that its policies face scrutiny."China has become a big power in economic terms as well as political terms, and it is normal that big powers should be under criticism," Jagland said.
Unlike some in China's highly fractured and persecuted dissident community, the 54-year-old Liu has been an ardent advocate for peaceful, gradual political change, rather than a violent confrontation with the government.
In China, broadcasts of CNN, which is available in tourist hotels, upmarket foreign hotels and places where foreigners gather, went black during the Nobel announcement and when reports about the award later aired.
China's Foreign Ministry did not immediately comment, but a spokeswoman said recently that choosing Liu would go against the prize's aims.
"The person you just mentioned was sentenced to jail by Chinese judicial authorities for violating Chinese law. I think his acts are completely contrary to the aspirations of the Nobel Peace Prize," said spokeswoman Jiang Yu.
It was the first Nobel for the Chinese dissident community since it resurfaced after the country's communist leadership launched economic, but not political reforms three decades ago. The win could jolt a current debate among the leadership and the elite over whether China should begin democratic reforms and if so how quickly.
The Nobel citation said China's new status a big economic and political power must entail increased responsibility.
"China is in breach of several international agreements to which it is a signatory, as well as of its own provisions concerning political rights," it said, citing an article in China's constitution about freedom of speech and assembly.
"In practice, these freedoms have proved to be distinctly curtailed for China's citizens," the citation said.
The document Liu co-authored, Charter 08, called for greater freedoms and an end to the Communist Party's political dominance. It was an intentional echo of Charter 77, the famous call for human rights in then-Czechoslovakia that led to the 1989 Velvet Revolution that swept away communist rule.
"The democratization of Chinese politics can be put off no longer," Charter 08 says.
Thousands of Chinese signed Charter 08, and the Communist Party took the document as a direct challenge.
Police arrested Liu hours before Charter 08 was due to be released in December 2008. Given a brief trial last Christmas Day, Liu was convicted of subversion for writing Charter 08 and other political tracts and sentenced to 11 years in prison.
In a year with a record 237 nominations for the peace prize, Liu had been considered a favorite, with open support from winners Archbishop Desmond Tutu, the Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama and others.
When the Tibet-born Dalai Lama won the peace prize in 1989, both the Chinese government and some of the public were angry - the exiled Buddhist leader was endlessly vilified in official propaganda as a traitor for his calls for more autonomy for Tibet.
The son of a soldier, Liu joined China's first wave of university students in the mid-1970s after the chaotic decade of the Cultural Revolution.
Liu's writing first took a political turn in 1988, when he became a visiting scholar in Oslo - his first time outside China.
Liu cut short a visiting scholar stint at Columbia University months later to join the Tiananmen Square protests in Beijing in 1989. He and three other older activists famously persuaded students to peacefully leave the square hours before the deadly June 4 crackdown.
Liu went to prison after the crackdown and was released in early 1991 because he had repented and "performed major meritorious services," state media said at the time, without elaborating.
Still, five years later Liu was sent to a re-education camp for three years for co-writing an open letter that demanded the impeachment of then-President Jiang Zemin.
President Barack Obama won the Nobel peace prize last year.
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147 Comments so far
Show AllCongratualtions Mr. Liu. Actions speak louder than awards.
And Chinese government, if you want to play on the world stage, you're going to have to learn to accept criticism. Blocking the awards to your own people is so.....ineffective, and makes us realize even more, how much Mr. Liu deserves this award.
Please find a single post here that was not critical of human rights in China, before deconstructing why Liu in particular, among all the other the imprisoned dissidents around the world, got the prize.
I was interested in finding out more about Liu Xiaobo, and I found his Charter 08 by going to Wikipedia Charter 08 and looking in the external links. I don't agree with the harsh way the Chinese government has treated him, but his stated goal is to replace the present Chinese system with good old robber baron capitalism. Even to having an unregulated banking system such as we have here in our capitalist utopia.
if the chinese authorities see fit that it is threatening to THEIR priority of NOT BEING COERCED by the west to 'change' -- after THEIR long, centuries- long experience of western coercions that nearly destroyed china (you may not have known it, but from the turn of the century : 19th-20th) countries like england, USA, Japan, Russia, Germany, Netherlands, Portugal CONNIVED against china ...and divided HER up into their "respective spheres of influence" IMPOSING on the chinese "treaties" in which any treaty "agreed" to by china with ANY single of those foreign countries china had to apply it for the others..which MEANT: LOW WAGES, "china is NOT to pass laws protecting" china)...because those countries, many of them the SAME ONES behind these "liberalizing china" demands PRETENDING as "concern for human rights"...then why SHOULD the chinese authorities who DON"T FORGET what was done or attempted against their proud country and people by westerners and japan...even PRETEND to TOLERATE such things?
TRY such things on AMERICA...what do americans do? they HOWL:
even when Russia was NO REAL threat to them: they howled and howled and howled:
"THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING. they are going to destroy our way of life!!"
even when CASTRO only wanted self-determination for his people and KICKED OUT THE AMERICAN-backed Fascists and oligarchs -- what did the americans do? they howled and howled and howled:
:CASTRO is going to INVADE US with his COMMIES..and destroy our way of life!!!
so -- why SHOULD CHINA or its leadership - backed by thousands of years of proud history and with ITS own experiences in struggles and conflicts internal and against foreigners - ACCOMODATE the wishes of westerners that have BEEN the vanguard of INTRUSIONS into China's affairs?
this is LESS about the "freedom of the chinese people" -- it is ALL ABOUT "the freedom of the" western world to IMPOSE its "freedom" on another country...a BIG ONE at that, so that the west can make a GO at once again coercing china into being their willing accomplice
AT CHINA"S EXPENSE...as they always have tried to do!
case in point, and CONNECTED to "politically freeing china?"
THE USA's DEMANDS for "reform" and YUAN ...which is just another way for the USA
to MAKE CHINA PAY ADDITIONALLY for the USA's OWN profligacy -- and then making CHINA OPEN ITS LEGS so the USA can RAPE CHINA, just like it has raped other countries , under, always, the banner of "reform, freedom, democracy" and the point of a gun, threats, intimidation and other nefarious, dishonorable tactics!
the REAL BARBARIANS and UNCIVILIZED folks here are NOT the "chinese authorities" ....it's these HYPOCRITES , posing as civilized nations....all the way
All the way and across the way , from WASHINGTON DC to OSLO and STOCKHOLM...
what HYPOCRITES!
my personal opinion is NO , he should not be put in jail.
but that remains the Chinese government's business.
as it also remains the business of the US government to put in jail dissidents against American Empire, Torture, War, invading other countries with Lies, destroying countries left and right....
few if any , CHINA COMPARES to the USA.
now - question back to you:
for DISSIDENTS criticising the US Government and America FOR SUCH THINGS like WAR CRIMES,invading countries with lies for their resources, basically STEALING them, and torturing people all over the world....disrespecting sovereignties..causing mayhem, destruction, bombing civilians, causing the death the destroyed humanity of american service people.....
for dissidents SUCH AS CINDY SHEEHAN....
she should go to jail?
for WIKILEAKS exposing to the world that the USA hides embarrassing secrets about torture, and war crimes....Wikileaks should be PROSECUTED as the US justice Department threatens..?
I also have another question for YOU:
SHOULDN'T WAR criminals like George W Bush, Cheney, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Petraeus, OBAMA....KISSINGER, REAGAN...etc...ALREADY HAVE BEEN IN JAIL ?
what about Neo-cons like Bill Kristol and his ilk? what about the American FINANCE and BANKS and MILITARY'INDUSTRIAL'MERCENARY War Criminals and WAR PROFITEERS? what about the American DOCTORS and NURSES and PSYCHOLOGISTS practicing Human Experiments, Torture etc...
shouldnt' THEY have been in jail already? what about AMERICAN CIA , NSA assassins and Spying on everyone///shouldn't THEY have been in jail already?
no -- i said my personal opinion is he should not be in jail. THAT was a CLEAR ANSWER TO YOU.
why do you repeat your question?
I posed to YOU a question you have NOT answered, in turn:
why are NOT bush, obama, cheney, etc...ALL US WAR CRIMINALS NOT IN JAIL?
if you ask me whether the chinese dissident should be in jail..and I say NO....what was YOUR opinion on him? if you IMPLIED in your question to ME that he should NOT be in jail for criticizing his government...
then why are you NOT ANSWERING MY QUESTION whether CINDY SHEEHAN should NEVER have been jailed. along with MANY other US dissidents against AMERICA's WAR CRIMES POLICIES?
or are you just wanting to see the chinese dissident be OUT of JAIL after criticising his government's INTERNAL POLICIES which are NONE of the USA's business through its BOYS and GIRLS in the NOBEL prize committee....
but you are OK with CHENEY, BUSH, OBAMA , KISSINGER and plenty of other US WAR CRIMINALS being OUT OF JAIL?
I ask you again..note the time of the post:
Do you think Obama and Kissinger , who are known the world over as War Criminals, should be in JAIL instead of holding NOBEL PEACE PRIZE awards in their houses?.
Do you think Cindy Sheehan , who is a dissident against the USA's Criminal Wars of Conquest and Resource Grabbing while destroying countries and peoples and economies under the pretext of "war on terror" , should EVER have been in jail?
Do you think that these American "leaders" who are clearly perpetrators of the American STATE TERRORIST WAR MACHINE all over the globe should be in jail instead of being in office?.
bush would be in jail if YOU did your duty.
most surely. he has committed the gravest crime of all: crimes against humanity.
if "aiding and abetting the global fascist terrorists" is not a crime deserving imprisonment, what is?
stealing a loaf of bread out of hunger?
there you go..
if that is the kind of "self-expression and freedom of assembly and democracy" he is dreaming about...has he not considered that what might in principle be beneficial or desirable: "individual rights and freedoms"...is the same path that has led to ...ultimately the TYRANNIES that the western "democracies" have for eons , currently under the umbrella of "free market" corporatism and fascism, EVENTUALLY REACHED through "democracy" -- the kind of democracy that HE espouses?
if that IS indeed what he espouses -- he is nothing more than a "chinese citizen that is UNHAPPY THAT HE CAN"T BE MORE LIKE THE WESTERNERS"....a PURE COPY-CAT WANNA-BE-"free"NEOLIBERAL himself who is , at the very least, rather than a "chinese patriot simply wishing for freedom for his fellow chinese"....actually just a Dyed in the Wool SELL_OUT to western imperialists who have tempted him with the "siren-call" of "democracy"
even as THEY themselves can't even hold that torch of "freedom and human rights" STRAIGHT in the wind without dropping it and having it flame out...depending on what's convenient to them.
so -- in the end -- what's HE all about , if indeed, that is the kind of "freedom" he is talking about?. he appears more like a STOOGE for the western imperialists led by the USA that can't stand the fact that CHINA -- a civilization far , far older than any of them, has its own characteristics which INCLUDE a DIFFERENT concept of "freedom" and has different PRIORITIES within its national realities and what china , in its national and cultural and historical paradigms, considers as its SOLE right to evolve according to that reality...no different than ants or bees evolve according to their characteristics.
i wonder if he has forgotten that his own country's , rightly so whether as "dictated by" the Communist Party which itself came into being BECAUSE of previous FOREIGN intrusions, or by national ethos tolerating or supporting or in line with the "ONE-PARTY DICTATORSHIP" ethos that is characteristic , perhaps, to china's own culture regardless of what others might think , has as its highest priority
the DEFENSE against FOREIGN INTERVENTION and DEFENSE of its "CHINESENESS" above all...
which has been emphasized by history itself owing to the SAME WESTERN COLONIALISTS that invaded, or coerced or tried to turn china into a "market" and Vassal State...namely by such countries as the USA, ENGLAND .....etc..the VERY SAME ONES that NOW demand that china
"open herself up" TO THE SAME ONGOING western imperialist project that they FAILED to impose or maintain on china since at least 2 centuries ago.
does he perhaps forget that PARAMOUNT to his country's leadership IS their CHINESENESS and to be "NOT A WESTERN COUNTRY" by proxy?
as some of the leadership of china had repeated a few times over the last few years:
"WE shall accomodate things that we find as good for our country...but we will NEVER be a Western country..we shall remain as we always have been: CHINA".
if anything, imperfect and even Brutal as the authorities can and have been , his own country, he should remember, has been RATHER SUCCESSFUL in adapting to realities -- as PART of what has allowed his own civilization and people, whether IN china or traveling and establishing themselves elsewhere, to be the world's longest continuously surviving nation..apart from india. THAT adaptability balanced with a CLEAR concept of what "Chineseness" is , despite their internal struggles and conflicts, IS the very reason that HE and his country ARE CHINA.
so , for him to try to IMITATE western "democracies" is almost tantamount to betraying HIS own civilization that has, as much as it has to learn from others, also as MUCH TO TEACH...and not least , on how to balance individuality and social cohesion to have even survived for as long as it has , as closely as possible to what it BECAME , china, thousands of years ago.
where are NOW -- the "roman empire?" reduced to its tiny original collection of provinces called "italy"...
where is NOW - GERMANY and the THird Reich? reduced to its tiny concentration of German ethnics in the "prussian" region..
where NOW is the BRITISH EMPIRE? reduced to its origins of "england"
Compare that -- he ought to think and remember about his own country -- china is now largely what it WAS thousands of years ago. and WHY is that?
because INSTEAD of hubristically trying to FORCE other nations to "BE CHINESE"...his own people were clever or realistic enough that "BEING CHINESE" was ENOUGH!!!
and that part of it is to adapt while retaining their essence.
and HE wants to follow the western exhortations of RUSHING his own civilization to "become LIKE" the USA, NORWAY, ENGLAND...etc.?
does he have NO RESPECT for his own chineseness, anymore than the WESTERNERS that tried to DIVIDE CHINA AMONG THEMSELVES generations ago had ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT for his own country?
as they CLEARLY show , with this "criticism" of china, hypocritically as they show, exposes that beneath their supposed "respect for human rights" and demanding china "improve human rights"
is really THEIR WESTERN "IDEALS" of wanting the world to be ordered according TO THEIR own ne0-colonialisms?
he is basically asking his own country to give up its sovereignty in order to be "shaped" by the USA and western nations ...which is simply , behind all the talk about "democracy" which they themselves can BARELY live up TO, just another excuse and facade for "picking up where they left off" generations ago:
TURN CHINA into their willing vassal state.
Here is an excerpt from Nobel's will on who should receive the Peace prize.
"and one part to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses"
Not sure about Liu because I know so little about him. But Obama? I'm not even sure that Gore's raising awareness of climate change was an appropriate reason to give him this award.
Mandela, on the other hand, deserved the award (1993) for his work in breaking the South African apartheid state; however, he didn't receive it until after serving 27 years in prison and having been released for a few years and had finally led to a multi-racial democracy. It still took til 2008 for the US to remove him for the terror watch list.
guess who else was the staunchest supporter of the apartheid regime up to the very last mimute: Israel.
There's a lot of sympathy expressed here for the murderous thugs running China.
The fact that murderous thugs also run the US, and the fact that the US runs a heinous empire, do not mitigate the fact that China is a criminal regime. It puts peaceful political dissidents in prison, and their spouses in insane asylums. It destroys the cultures of its ethnic minorities. It colludes with rich nations of the West to set up sweat shops that enrich local officials. It props up insane, vicious regimes in North Korea and Burma. It pillages rain forests of Southeast Asia. It poisons communities in countries where it runs industrial operations.
The US is also guilty of such atrocities and, due to its power, is probably the most destructive force in this world at present. But to allow this fact to create sympathy for China, or to distract from the atrocities China commits, and from the danger it poses, is folly.
The fact that the Nobel Prize has become compromised by the stupidity of its award to Obama, and by Norway's affiliations with the US, does not detract from the threat posed by China. Its role as an up-an-coming World Bully, or its role as a whipping boy for the Top Bully, does not make it less of a threat. Ask anyone from Tibet or Xinjiang, anyone who's been locked up for something they posted on the Internet, or anyone who's had his or her house and property violently confiscated for a commercial development project. Also, China is ~not~ socialist _ it's effectively a fascist state run by the wealthy. In the same way we should not let US 'China bashing' distract from the atrocities of the US, we must not fall prey to a reverse strategy.
what "atrocity" are you blabbering about? the atrocities by the neo-fascists who fund Xiaobo?
The atrocities you've committed in Tibet, Xinjiang, Mongolia & Guizhou, and what you do on a daily routine basis to your own people. Using the infantile word 'blabbering' doesn't cover the fact that every word written here is accurate. It's an old propaganda tactic. It won't work here.
Thank you. For those hoping and wishing (rightfully so) for the US to collapse, let me remind you that China's anxiously waiting in the wings to take charge of each and every American atrocity, right where the US leaves them off.
Zell,
Well stated.
C :)
"murderous" you say? talking about the US and its allies such as Israel?
'"murderous" you say? talking about the US and its allies such as Israel?'
Yes. If you read the post, I said in the next graf that the US is murderous and runs a heinous empire, which certainly includes Israel too. The fact that the US does it does not negate the fact that China does it, too, which is exactly what you're trying to do.
Your attempts to obfuscate the issue, by implying some hypocrisy & racism when there is none, tip your hand easily. It's an old Chinese operative tactic, and you're probably on their payroll, my guess is maybe Xinhua.
are you suggesting that you on mossad payroll, in order to intimidate someone?
Nonsense. You know the argument is hollow, so you're attempting to distract from the topic with all this crap _ typical China gov't strategy.
For openers it's ludicrous to have a peace prize named after the inventor of the dynamite (Alfred Nobel, 1863). The prize has NO credibility. Never did. And especially after last year's award of a peace prize to a war criminal and profiteer, Obama. Wasn't Hitler also nominated for the prize in 1939?
Didn't Kissinger win in 1973? This prize's a complete and unadulterated sham.
Xiaobo is one of the many shills on the global capitalist fascists' payroll. the Chinese govt recognized the treason as what it is and took proper measures, unlike ours. good for them.
Human Rights Watch, which has been touting Xiaobo and other shills as "heroes", are of course one of the tools for the global overlords, as proven over and over again.
giving o-bomber the peace prize last year was no mistake: it was the committee taking the global capitalist side and letting the world know that when they say peace, it means war against any resistance to the new global fascist order.
Please cite evidence that Xiaobo is on the "global capitalist fascists payroll".
go read his "08 charter" and if you can't tell who funds his activities, go do some real reading beyond the official 5th grade history book.
Relax, China.
They gave Obama the prize too.
It's a JOKE! Get it?? FUNNY!!!
The peace prize is given to make something happen-- in the case of Obama it was a celebration away from Bush-Cheney and a hope for the future which has not been completed as of now- only two years later- too early to tell-- but that peace Prize will keep him motivated.
The Chinese peace prize was EXCELLENT -- just the right man got it! Someone who went out of his way to go to Tinnamen Square and try to prevent violence got arrested but still kept at it.
tinanmen square protests were mostly against corruption, which there was and is more than enough in china as in any other country.
your global capitalist masters would love to have you believe that chinese people were revoltingagainst communism itself, though.
hence the recruitment of like-minded individuals like Xiaobo, who would sell their soul to the highest bidder in a heart beat.
The art of pointing fingers at others is a potent political tool. especially when that tool is used as part of a tool to routinely assault and bludgeon other nations and people. Is there any other nation on the history of earth with a distinguished history of invading other nations, fostering foreign coups and murdering foreign leaders than the US?
Its sort of like Al Capone prosecuting you for tax invasion or Jeffrey "the cannibal" Dahmer judging you for spanking your child. You, know it is difficult not to notice the hypocrisy.
If nations are not held to the standard by which they are strategically judging and killing others, what then is the point. There is a name for it called is called corruption. In truth, the law of the jungle is silently advocated by those cabals who wield global power and possess the sundry machinery of death,
By the way is racism not predicated on that assumption of double standard. No wonder, in the US declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson could conjure the " ..all men are created equal..." sales pitch while he simultaneously was personally enslaving legions of other fellow humans. That is what happens with pretended tunnel vision
Too many posters here seem to believe "my enemies enemey is my friend." Hence all the pro-China posts.
who pays you for shilling? lemme guess...
You've already made your contrarian views known. If you aren't pro-China than you are a neo-fascist.
you insult yourself all on your own.
and you've shown your Stalinist leanings.
Xiaobo is one of many on the global neo-fascist financial capitalist payroll.
google and read the "charter 08" which Xiaobo signed and Human Rights Watch is touting as a great human rights document. i hear wikipedia has it for you to read and weep.
you might as well call it "Goldman Sachs charter", as it champions deregulation of financial industry and freedom to exploit and kill for maximum private profit for the elites. just like what we have in the US and the West.
those who ask whether it's justified to punish such a thought with imprisonment, ask yourselves:
what other crimes deserve punishment more than such a thought as what Xiaobo peddles for his fascist backers? stealing a loaf of bread out of hunger? suicide-bombing out of total despair and against injustice?
ask yourselves: has Xiaobo represented a grave threat to the sovereignty and wellbeing of the entire Chinese people and beyond? does he have the "human right" to commit injustice?
it all boils down to whether we as humanity agree that there is the right thing and there is the wrong thing, whether anything is as valid as anything else. philosophically, morally, politically, and legally. is it a right thing for one to exploit and kill another for monetary gains and private power? does a human being have such a right?
the post-modernists and the post-structuralists have been telling you college educated fancy pants that KKK's idea is as valid as MLK's idea, the capitalist idea is just as good as the communist idea, that no one can prove one is wrong, that we should and can all just get along.
guess what. KKK does NOT want to get along. the neo-Fascist capitalists do NOT want to get along. they want to have it all and have made it abundantly clear that they will do away with you if you don't cooperate with their project. they have shown you that they are more than willing to wage and perpetuate war on justice and peace. which part of their statement do you not understand?
go tell your zionist friends and relatives that nazism is not a crime.
go tell the families who lost their jobs and houses and pensions to wall street thieves who fund Xiaobo's activities: the heist is all legal.
a handful of neo-fascists and their professional shills have invaded CD, for all to read about their patriotism.
they saw the writings on the wall: their days are numbered, thanks to their own inhumanity.
repression of what is the crux of the matter. but that is lost on you, of course. "repression" is BAD. anything goes. right?
so who do you think should be "repressed" for what crimes?
who do you think are rotting in your prisons for what crimes?
look what fine examples of righteousness are strutting around freely as your LEADERS and MASTERS! "repressing" them would be "dictatorial"!
projecting yourself onto others, as usual.
is that what you do, running to wall street or DC wagging and drooling, on your payday?C
Tiananmen Square Protest was against corruption, not against communism. and there is corruption in china, more or less than any other country.
of course the global capitalist overlords would love to have you believe that the chinese were crying out for the US-style capitalism.
shills like Xiaobo are useful tools for that predictable propaganda.
In a 1988 interview with Hong Kong's Liberation Monthly (now known as Open Magazine), Liu replied to a question on what it would take for China to realize a true historical transformation:
"(It would take) 300 years of colonialism. In 100 years of colonialism, Hong Kong has changed to what we see today. With China being so big, of course it would take 300 years of colonialism for it to be able to change to how Hong Kong is today. I have my doubts as to whether 300 years would be enough..." unquote
This guy isn't talking about communism or the government! he's talking about the Chinese people and culture! This guy is ashamed of being Chinese....!
Also clearly implied is his approval of colonialism! It made the H.K. Chinese better after 100 years. And it will take more than 300 years to do the same for a much bigger China...!
This Nobel Prize was awarded to a person who's ashamed of his own ethnicity and is in favour of colonialism...!!!!
After Obama the farce does indeed continue....!
"may you live in interesting times"
zell
*The fact that the Nobel Prize has become compromised by the
stupidity of its award to Obama, and by Norway's affiliations with the US, does not detract from the threat posed by China. Its role as an up-an-coming World Bully, or its role as a whipping boy for the Top Bully, does not make it less of a threat. Ask anyone from Tibet or Xinjiang*
hmmm, china the next "evil empire" ?
such "narrative" wouldnt be amiss on the page of washington times, war street journal and the likes, i notice it seems to be propagated on progressive sites lately too.
the difference is that on right wing rag like wt, its evil china vs virtuous usa. on progressive sites, the tune is more sophiscated, it goes like this "no doubt amerikka is bad, but china is just as evil or even worse. ! "
can mr zell enlighten me on china being the upcoming "world bully", for a start ?
You don't need my information, if you work for them.
Your English syntax and usage give you away, as does your training in cheap rhetoric and Cultural Revolution-era propaganda.
hell i ask u for evidence of alleged "china as world bully" mr zell
apparently u've none ? ;-(
so china is a "world bully" coz mr progressive zell here say so buahahaha ?
*You don't need my information, if you work for them*
i see, whenever u lose a debate, default to personal attack !
*Your English syntax and usage give you away*
lol,
english isnt my 1 language , so what wiseguy ?
*as does your training in cheap rhetoric and Cultural Revolution-era propaganda*
cultural era propaganda....omg !!
can u elaborate ?
all i did was asking u to substantiate ur accusation
who's the one long on rhetorics but short on substance here
mr progressive zell ;-)
Your tactics won't work here.
None of your distraction can cover the fact the Chinese government _
_ Imprisons its citizens for their peaceful, written criticism of government policy
_ Methodically weakens and destroys minority cultures
_ Drives tanks over university kids & shoots them in the back as they run away
_ Forcibly confiscates homes with no compensation for development projects
_ Commits dissidents' families to insane asyulms as deterrent
_ Props up brutal dictatorships in North Korea and Burma
_ Does business deals with the likes of Mugabe & Gadhafi
The US government also does much evil. You won't find anyone here arguing with you there. But that will not negate the fact that China's government is equally as heinous, and dangerous. You can't hide behind your ethnicity, and claim legitimate criticism is a racial attack, or hypocricy. Your tactics might help whip up some Nationalism at home, but they won't work here.
*Your tactics won't work here.
None of your distraction can cover the fact the Chinese government _ *
distraction ha ?
i ask u a simple question....substantiate ur accusation of china the "world bully".
if u cant , at least have the cojones to admit it.
_* Imprisons its citizens for their peaceful, written criticism of government policy*
u mean liu xiaobo ?
he is a master mind of the ned sponsored tam rebellion
u know what ned does for a living i presume ?
in certain democrazies, he is liable to be shot for treason
_* Methodically weakens and destroys minority cultures*
tibet for exemple, is exempted from taxes and heavily susidised in economy and education.
china's minorities are exempted from the one child rule
can u show me where on earth, besides china, has such preferential policies to the minorities...?
_* Drives tanks over university kids & shoots them in the back as they run away*
u're parroting the neocon propaganda zell
http://tinyurl.com/28s8h4p
*_ Forcibly confiscates homes with no compensation for development projects*
quite possibly but hardly unique
this happens in "democracies" like india too, where land grab by big corps are even worse.
why are u singling out china for such virulent diatribe
_* Commits dissidents' families to insane asyulms as deterrent*
source please
*_ Props up brutal dictatorships in North Korea and Burma
_ Does business deals with the likes of Mugabe & Gadhafi*
brutal ?
who're u to judge ?
http://tinyurl.com/3344nol
*The US government also does much evil. You won't find anyone here arguing with you there. But that will not negate the fact that China's government is equally as heinous, and dangerous*
what planet are u on zell ?
ccp on its worst day still cant hold a candle to amerikka
http://tinyurl.com/5oygdv
http://tinyurl.com/d2xxc9
http://tinyurl.com/27klr5f
http://tinyurl.com/37s3dh
.* You can't hide behind your ethnicity,*
wtf are u talking about ?
* and claim legitimate criticism is a racial attack,*
show me the offending remarks
* or hypocricy.*
listen for yourself
your prez preaching on hr n rule of law buahahaha
nobel peace laureate, hussain obama
*the Nobel Committee has chosen someone who has been an eloquent and courageous spokesman for the advance of universal values through peaceful and non-violent means, including his support for democracy, human rights, and the rule of law.*
http://tinyurl.com/22kjmgx
signing off
hope to be back....barring unforseen circumstances ;-)
I've repeatedly said that the US is also guilty of atrocities.
My point is that those atrocities don't negate those committed by China.
Your arguments above are entirely focused on personal attack, and can't cover the truth.
China by its own admission has thousands of missiles pointed at Taiwan. They are not for defense. If launched, they would wipe out millions of Men, Women & Children.
I've seen exactly what China has done to Tibet and Xinjiang, as has much of the world & anyone who's traveled there.
China acknowledges its support for the government of North Korea.
China acknowledges its support for the government of 'Myanmar.'
China openly engages in business with Mugabe & Gadhafi.
China rams peaceful commercial vessels with military craft in international waters, often violating international arrangements aimed at maintaining peace by constructing military facilities in areas whose jurisdiction is vague.
No amount of listing US atrocities _ posting under multiple names _ can distract from what China is doing. Calling for 'proof' is absurd. Tanatamount to asking for 'proof' that slavery existed in the US or that Israel has abused Palestine.