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White House Defends Targeted Killing Program
The Obama administration was preparing a request on Friday to block a lawsuit over the scope of its targeted killing program for suspected terrorists, in a case that challenges the government's powers in its war on terror.
U.S. officials say national security is threatened by Yemeni-American Islamist cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, whose fiery sermons are a major draw for anti-American jihadists on the Internet. Mr. Awlaki, a U.S. citizen, is believed to be targeted for extrajudicial killing for his alleged involvement in terror plots against the U.S.
A terrorism task force led by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in San Diego for years has been building a case against Mr. Awlaki, according to people familiar with the matter. Obama administration officials have recently weighed whether to bring an indictment against him, these people say.
Last month, Mr. Awlaki's father, with the aid of U.S. civil-liberties groups, filed suit in District of Columbia federal court seeking an order to stop the government from killing Mr. Awlaki unless he posed an immediate threat. The suit also asked the court to force the government to disclose the process it used to determine that a U.S. citizen can be executed without trial.
The government was scheduled to file its response to the suit late Friday. A U.S. official said the government would challenge Nasser al-Awlaki's standing to bring the suit on behalf of his son, who is believed to be hiding in Yemen. The government doesn't admit or deny whether it plans to kill Mr. Awlaki, or disclose any details of the targeted killing program. But the official said it would argue that Mr. Awlaki, as a U.S. citizen, would have access to the courts if he wants to surrender peacefully.
The filing was set to argue that it is not for the courts to decide whether it is legal to kill an American in Yemen, far from the actual battlefield in Afghanistan, where the U.S. is fighting al Qaeda. Congress and the president should determine that question, according to the filing.
As a fallback argument, the U.S. was planning to say that even if a court decides to allow a case to proceed, the government's state-secrets privilege would prohibit the suit because classified programs could be exposed.
Vincent Warren, executive director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, said: "Targeting a person for assassination without due process is exactly the question for the courts to answer."
The center and the American Civil Liberties Union are representing the elder Mr. Awlaki.
Asked whether the father has standing to bring the lawsuit, Mr. Warren says: "The fact is, Mr. Awlaki cannot take steps to legally protect his life without endangering his life. Even communicating with lawyers risks exposing his location, potentially leading to them killing him."
U.S. authorities have alleged links between Mr. Awlaki and several recent terrorist plots, including communications with Army Maj. Nidal Hasan, who is charged with killing 13 people in a shooting at Fort Hood, Texas, last year, and with Christmas Day airline-bombing suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. The Treasury Department in July designated Mr. Awlaki a "global terrorist."
The Awlaki case raises broader issues of how far the government can go in its efforts to pursue terrorists. Robert Chesney, a University of Texas law professor, said: "What this is really about is the overarching question: Is the battlefield really limited to Afghanistan or is it the whole world?"
The Obama administration has expanded the use of targeted killings, mostly in drone attacks carried out by the Central Intelligence Agency or the military. Most of those attacks have been in Pakistan and Afghanistan, where al Qaeda planned the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
The administration has cited the laws of war and a post-9/11 congressional authorization for use of military force as the legal grounds for many of its counterterrorism moves.
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71 Comments so far
Show AllIf this murder attempt happens, then the USA is no longer a soveriegn nation, a moral nation, a democracy, nor is it supported by Constitutional law
AND YOU WILL BE NEXT...
for non-payment of outrageous taxes, interest, utilities...
for gathering to support any ideaology or belief...
for smoking, drinking, whoring, gambling...
unless you belong to the elite upper 1% of the world's rich bastards...
who don't pay taxes, do enslave nations, do murder innocents, do rob banks, and pretend to be an ideaology that they have forced you to believe with their media controlling sacks of crap ...andoh BTW...
destroyed your Constitution
Read Taylor Caldwell..."The Devil's Advocate"
Yes, claim the powers of judge, jury and executioner and justify it by branding your targets of assassination as terrorists. It worked for Hitler. It all nicely compliments the "I was just following orders" defense too.
Keep on "spreadin' freedom". USA! USA! USA!
And I am sorry to say, every politician has bowed to the power of money, including Obummer. And so have you, sucking up the news, the TV blah lies... Think of the media clamoring over tea parties and the rest of the madness...and how we all play right into it, by buying the goods advertised during the media screech...oh fer cryin out loud people
WAKE UP.
Unfortunately Frank, too true. From my perspective, and although I agree with her posts most of the time, I am afraid Miggy is delusional on this one. But I would love to be proven wrong!
I save my hope for the weather.
When you read stuff like this you know we’ve gone fascist:
“Vincent Warren, executive director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, said: "Targeting a person for assassination without due process is exactly the question for the courts to answer."
Gee, I thought it was outright illegal to go around murdering people—no need to ask the courts. That people think this is a matter for intellectual debate astounds me. How have we come to this state of lawlessness?
This is a surely a turn for the worse. Not that we are assasssinating people, but that we’re being open about it. At least lil’ Bush came up with lies to excuse his atrocities, feeble as they were.
What’s next is truly dire, and although I want to believe I’m paranoid I fear I’m not.
NY Democrat Pete King was on CNN the other day saying that our ridiculously bloated Homeland Security is totally out of control and even referring to its intentions as “thought control,” and I wonder why this problem has gotten such short shrift on progressive sites such as this. The point of Homeland Security is clearly not to save us from Muslim terrorists, if it ever was (and given I don't believe the official 9/11 fairy tale, I don't buy that excuse). The point is to monitor veterans, anti-war activists, animal-rights activists, those who would prefer state or local governance garnering more power, etc. etc. As we write these comments on CS, many of us have a queasy feeling we are being tracked.
According to the agency, their main concern is right-wing groups, particularly veterans who feed into them—you know, like Timothy McVeigh. Never mind that you have to be an idiot to think that McVeigh was responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing, given that the MSM reported that one detonated and two undetonated bombs were found in the building (I mean, duh. It’s not a wild conspiracy notion—it was on the news, for God’s sake). Never mind that I’m starting to get why right-wing groups are stockpiling weaponry, although I hardly sympathize with their bloody solution or their ideology.
We’ve been on the road to tyranny for a long time, and slowly, slowly, this fact is brazenly announced in more alarming ways. I think most people have sensed that we are being lied to constantly, at least on some level, for some time. It seems to me that for many, there’s a sort of unconscious deal: I’ll accept your bullshit if you provide me a nice materialistic life. What’s going to happen as our economy continues to devolve and that trade-off no longer works? How many times will people bear hearing that the Constitution is just a piece of paper and rights are a joke as they lose their jobs and homes and what little safety nets we have? Are people going to continue to be complacent, or will they rise up? How bad will it have to get before they rise up? And if they do rise up, what will be awaiting them? I’m afraid the answer is pain rays for crowd control and FEMA camps.
I tell myself I’m being paranoid, but then I look at history.
Excellent response, Miggy!!!
; - ))) LOL, Miggy -
I was reading your post, and kept saying, "Atta, girl." And then I smiled as I recognized a few phrases I've used.
And then, lo and behold, 'twas MOI saying much of this, along with your added comments.
Here's an underscore for what has been happening for a long, long time. Unfortunately the man who got it all together in a visionary way on so many things the last year he was in office and courageously chose to speak the truth never had a long enough chance to overturn the rotten apple cart. However, his last speeches are a legacy for all of us who are interested in the truth and choose to envision a different kind of world and a different way of "doing business" with the rest of our brothers and sisters on this small, finite orb that we call home:
"For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless CONSPIRACY [my emphasis] that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations."
-President John F. Kennedy- and one of several reasons he was assassinated. He knew. And with those words, he decisively threw the gauntlet down. And that unfortunately was the end of JFK. [Using the word "conspiracy" sure makes him sound like a "Troofer." Those who denigrate and make fun of us "Troofers" and "Conspiracy Nutz" take note, please.]
What are the chances that enough of us throw our own gauntlets down and either organize massively or perhaps, more effectively and more safely, simply withdraw en masse from those things we abhor in order to reclaim our nation? To do this latter, it requires conscientiously and consciously changing our life styles from stuff-filled complexity to a much simpler way of living and not supporting those or that which causes us and others harm, and that's a long list, but one you can make on your own or with a few others, and follow it.
Realistically, what are the chances of that? And what will it take to bring us to that point?
peace, cm
P.S. Thanks for the high compliment, Miggy. I do enjoy reading your posts which suggest that you have acquired fire in the belly and the eye of the tiger.
CM,
Do you have a source for the comments by JFK. As they stand as quoted he could have easily been talking about the "Communist/Soviet" monolith. With out the rest of the speech to put those words into context I reserve judgment on whether they mean what you are interpreting them to mean.
Thanks,
OYE
FC,
Thanks for the link! Just what I was looking for.
I do disagree with you and CM. My take on it was just what I originally thought when I read the stand alone quote. After reading the whole speech there is no doubt that JFK was referring to the USSR in that paragraph.
And although JFK said he did not believe that we needed further security classifications and that it was the right of the press to determine the "rightness" or "wrongness" of printing whatever they print, he clearly stated (at least in my reading of it) that the press "just maybe" (my quotes-not his exact words) restrain themselves, e.g., self censor. So to imply that this quote from this speech would be enough to set the various secret organizations to assasinate him is a long stretch, or worse totally at odds with the whole speech.
As one who remembers where he was on that fateful day in Nov 63-3rd grade class in a Catholic school when the principal came on the intercom to inform us of the news-I do not believe the lone gunman, Oswald, story. Too many things happened that don't jive with the "official" report. To use this speech as "evidence" against said report is incorrect.
OYE
Geez, Oye, we must be the exact same age.
It was a bit more confusing in MY third grade parochial school class, because the elderly principal didn't know how to use the intercom properly. Apparently she intended to put the microphone by a radio in her office to directly broaden the "breaking news" broadcast to all the classrooms.
So the intercom, which had NEVER been used previously, suddenly erupted in fits and starts of squawks and static and fragments of the broadcast, with the principal's voice weaving in and out incomprehensibly. It was scary enough-- like a primitive version of "Revolution #9".
I think she finally got things under control enough to turn off the radio and tell us what happened. Either that, or she sent messengers around to break the news in low-tech form.
I remember my brother, the smartest kid in the eighth grade, telling me later that he was instructed to go to the principal's office as quick as he could get there to provide technical assistance.
Thanks for the reminiscence. Next time I see my brother I'll ask if he remembers it the same way.
Wow, you two remember where you were when Kennedy was killed, but George Bush Sr, soon to be named as head of the CIA, says he doesn't remember where he was.
(considering I was not yet born, my memories are rather vague)
Here's another quote, OYE, and another reason why JFK was killed, and again he was not talking about the Soviets. What he said would have incensed the military-industrial complex, especially the KLEPTOCRACY of the very wealthy and powerful, who make oodles of money from armaments manufactured for wars and make oodles of money from conquered peoples whose nations' resources become fair booty.
[The Higher Case emphases are mine.]
"I have, therefore, chosen this time and this place to discuss a topic on which ignorance too often abounds and the truth is too rarely perceived — yet it is the most important topic on earth: world peace. What kind of peace do I mean? What kind of peace do we seek? NOT A PAX AMERICANA ENFORCED ON THE WORLD BY AMERICAN WEAPONS OF WAR. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living, the kind that enables men and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children — NOT MERELY PEACE FOR AMERICANS BUT PEACE FOR ALL MEN AND WOMEN - NOT MERELY PEACE IN OUR TIME BUT PEACE FOR ALL TIME.
JFK'S Address at The American University, Washington D.C. (10 June 1963)
JFK and Jackie even came up with a plan to alleviate poverty and easily curable diseases across the globe. As JFK said, if plans could be made and carried out to go to the moon, we could do the above.
That was not good news for the exploiters of humanity and their stocks and bonds and cold hard cash.
BANG!
What? ... a world-peace-seeking President? BANG!
What? ... a President who really would like all people to have security and level the playing field as much as possible across the globe? BANG!
General Smedley Butler: WAR IS A RACKET!
Got news. The RACKETEERS are currently winning.
When a President doesn't play ball with the C.I.A. and with the KLEPTOCRACY and instead starts to become a visionary for a world at peace and with people from all walks of life being treated fairly and equally: BANG! BANG! BANG!!!
Making money wherever and whenever you can is the definition of SUCCESS and POWER in this country, is it not?
Might explain why our current President is such a go-along with the rich, sub-human slime balls who are really controlling things. He'd rather leave office rich than dead. Either that or he is a psychopath among other psychopaths ... or maybe both.
Either way, we citizens have a large problem on our hands and in our hearts. And with such policies as arbitrarily killing people who are suspected of whatever and wherever, we know that our problems are getting more dire by the day.
/cm
Excellent Cee,
Warning (with advice): If you suspect that an American is following you home, call Homeland Security immediately.
Bobby had the guts for follow in his brother's footsteps. That took courage.
Is Obama lacking in courage or morality?
OYE,
Checked my files. Unfortunately the quote I used stands alone in a separate file without reference. However, others I copied at the same time came from LET THE WORD GO FORTH, The JFK Speeches, author/editor - David Pitts, which may contain the quote I used.
I also go directly to the Presidential Libraries for quotes and commentary information. Interesting stuff in those libraries because of various personal remarks in correspondence now available to the public.
Also have a file on exchanges regarding Ben Gurion and remarks on Israel from:
careandwashingofthebrain.blogspot.com
/2009/04/who-murdered-our-beloved-president-jfk.html
Don't think the quote I used was about the "Communist/Soviet" monolith, you mention, or about JFK's exchanges with Zionist Israel's various leaders or his "take" on Israel's plans and policies. Ben Gurion hated JFK.
Nikita Krushchev and JFK got to respect and understand each other when the Cuban Missile Crisis was really hot. I believe Bobby suggested JFK call Krushchev directly, which he did, I'm pretty sure. Turned out that Nikita only PLAYED the buffoon and was both intelligent and definitely against a nuclear exchange between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. Between the two of them, JFK and Nikita, they cooked up the "saving face" idea of the U.S.S.R. withdrawing their missiles in Cuba and the U.S. withdrawing its planes and nukes from a base in Turkey.
Later when Jackie and JFK visited the U.S.S.R. to meet Nikita and his wife and other dignitaries, Nikita was absolutely charmed by Jackie. She sure was a great asset on these State trips. Fun/interesting photos are available, likely on the JFK Library site.
I think JFK was talking about the "conspiracy" he had come to understand which includes the Bilderberg Group, the Council on Foreign Relatons, the Tri-lateral Commission ... the whole package, and maybe members of the C.I.A. with its ties to Skull & Bones members of Yale University. Many familiar names in that organization.
It's all about those whose plans include going for a One-World Government/Empire ... of, for, by the rich and powerful, a very long-term plan that has almost been realized.
At least from what I've read and researched, that's my strong take on where we are right now and what definitely was on the drawing boards for years already when JFK became president.
Follow the Money; follow the most powerful because of that MONEY they personally have and the rest they have access to and/or control themselves or conjointly with others.
I'll be tracking down specifically where I got that quote myself, but not tonight. Likely it is from one of the sources I gave you above -- David Pitts or the JFK Library itself.
JFK was no dummy, but perhaps he would have been smarter to play his cards closer to his vest. That large, turbulent, fascinating, monied family he came from may have felt like enough protection, but obviously it wasn't in this instance. And his family was in no way "Old Money." They were just a couple of generations or so away from "Lace Curtain" Irish.
Treacherous world this, and especially now for the little guy/gal in the U.S. of A. as the torch of our Lady Liberty flickers in the descending night. And we best believe it and come to grips with it.
peace, cm
Miggy - There's a list I saw recently in a very lengthy essay about the total insanity of the mega-bureaucracy of HOMELAND SECURITY and the mega-information they gather at various offices within HOMELAND SECURITY. I didn't copy the essay, and I've been looking for it again. It was very disturbing to find an astounding number of words and phrases listed that are used to identify people who are considered troublemakers. Those words and phrases used to be considered patriotic, and many of them derive from those we consider heroes in our history or they derive from particular historic time periods that are considered important to our rise as a fully independent to superpower nation.
Can't have that anymore as the population begins to get increasingly restless in some quarters as "the troubles" get more troublesome for the majority.
Dangerous times, for sure.
It does remind me of NAZI Germany and Mussolini's ITALY, and I am old enough to remember.
peace, cm
I think it would be good if you started writing articles for Common Dreams
Miggy, RE your post above: Easily rises to among the most masterful anywhere.
Miggy, you are completely right in your righteous anger.
One correction --if I may: These aren't fools. They are calculating, dangerous criminals capable of anything. Anything.
"So where does that leave us? Do we run out to purchase AK -47's or 57's, or whatever the models are now, and start tracking and shooting all these criminal bastards to save ourselves and our nation before it is too late and we have become a fully fascist nation like Germany and Italy were under Hitler and Mussolini, respectively?... But to me, when this President, as his predecessor did, makes decisions that clearly violate our Constitutional protections as citizens and as human beings, a message is being sent that is the wrong message, and that is WE ARE A NATION WITHOUT RESPECT FOR THE LAW; A NATION WITH LAWS THAT CAN BE VIOLATED, especially if one has power, position and enough money, and enough corrupt idiots in Congress. AND THE HELL WITH YOU.
What I'm seeing is that if this keeps up, and the people of this slumbering nation ever stop watching the insipid, untruthful television news and wake up at last because what is happening all around, including to each of us individually, can no longer be ignored, then our hearts and our minds and our bodies may have to be put on the line.
And that's the bottom line, whether we like it or not."
Miggy, you just articulated the reasons why a Civil War is almost inevitable in the US in the very near future.
The FBI has initiated the whole-sale, large scale intimidation of progressive social activist and anti-war activists, behaving as though good ol' J. Edgar hisself had risen from the grave, and was back to roust the last of McCarthy's Communists. Police are raiding organic Farmers Markets and co-ops, as well as behaving with gleeful brutality against citizens on a daily basis.
My question to you is: When is too much too much for you? How much brutality and corruption do you have to witness before you either become a refugee (internal if nothing else) or a rebel?
Non Serviam - I will not serve.
"...targeted for extrajudicial killing for his alleged involvement..."
so much for the rule of law.
The tragedy of America (which appears now to be run by an out-of-control crime syndicate) is that it forces the population in general to follow their example.
"Extra juducial killing!" Good grief, what next? Training kids just out of high school how to kill? Sending robots to execute SUSPECTED terrorist leaders? Sending other humans to countries where they can be tortured in private? Enter your home or monitor your correspondance without a warrant? Put people in prison, indefinitely, without charge, because a military officer advised it? Good thing they don't allow gays to tear the moral fabric of this righteous cloak of freedom.
"Good grief, what next? Training kids just out of high school how to kill?" CHECK.
"Sending robots to execute SUSPECTED terrorist leaders?" CHECK.
"Sending other humans to countries where they can be tortured in private?" CHECK.
"Enter your home or monitor your correspondance without a warrant?" CHECK.
"Put people in prison, indefinitely, without charge, because a military officer advised it?" CHECK.
All of these things have come to pass. The Constitution, it turns out, IS just a piece of paper.
"The Constitution, it turns out, IS just a piece of paper."
That would explain why they have been wiping their behinds with it since 1980.
Hate to say it, but it has happened here.
Joe
I hate to have to agree with you Joe. If Sinclair Lewis were alive today, he would have to re-write a sequel to his book, from it can't happen here to it has happened here!
Why is Obama seeking so tenaciously to establish a precedent of state murder?
Every day we wade through countless articles attempting to justify or excuse Obama’s reactionism on the basis that he is merely “spineless,” or “clueless,” or ill-served by his advisors, or whatever the official alibi of the day happens to be.
Obama’s relentless efforts to legalize state murder prove him to be a forceful leader when he chooses.
Unfortunately he chooses to preside over the liquidation of the last of our civil liberties and the American middle class.
the American MUDDLE Class.
" Most of those attacks have been in Pakistan and Afghanistan where al Qaeda planned the September 11, 2001 attacks ". Excuse me WSJ and your pressitute Evan Perez you have no proof of this!!! This is nothing but another dogmatic statement and lie that the whore MSM uses to brainwash this BS to the sheeple over and over again. I would say to you Evan, there is much more proof that 911 was planned in Israel than Pakistan or Afghanistan. This is written as a fact when anyone that takes the time to study 911 knows it is a pack of lies. But of course we know you need to prostitute and bow and scrape or you could lose your income as a columnist for the WSJ. Shame on you!
It was probably planned at the flying school where and by those young men who were there learning to fly...my guess. Talk about going down swinging.
Yeah, that one hijacker, according to the official conspiracy theory flew 77 into the Pentagon.
This flight school failure was banned from flying a Cessna, because he was so pathetic during his small plane flight training.
Yet, miraculously, he not only flew a commercial airliner in a tight spiral quick descent maneuver, but managed to fly it just several feet above the ground into the Pentagon. (wreckage/damage anomalies aside)
It is incredible to me, just how effective this brainwashing has been to people on the right, or on the left.
You, and others who refuse to question the shadow government on 9/11, are going down swinging all right, but swinging at the wrong people. Meanwhile, those who have systematically trashed the Constitution, and slaughtered Americans and civilians by conspiring to fight resource wars, are the ones taking you down, but essentially without them even having to fight.
Al Capone was big on targetted killings too -- for about the same reasons. This should be expected since the US is being run by gangsters. (But even Capone opened soup kitchens -- Obama is forgetting his roots in Chicago politics, I guess.)
"During those years, I had as the boys in the back room would say a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents ". General Smedley D.Butler
I don't think Obama has forgotten anything. He's helping to expose this shit done under Bush one and two, no?
Whaaaat?
He is helping to expose acts taken by the Bush Administration, by doing them himself? Logic?
You got that right bluepilgrim. The gangsters who run the place are the 5 families of the Corporate Mafia and the MIC is one of them of course. We can debate on who is the most powerful family: MIC?, Big Oil? or maybe the Banksters?
Motto: "hey, nothin' personal, this is just business"
"just business"
one of the most loathsome conceits ever!
there's nothing just about it.
This is exactly the type of action that the Founding Fathers warned about, especially Jefferson and Madison. Adams spoke eloquently and often about the problem when the executive / judicial and legislative branches are either combined into a singular chair, or in this case, simply ignored.
The States' Secret doctrine is a scam / sham, invented to cover up an Air Force catastrophe decades ago - research it.
For many in the world - the US is the terrorist nation, and this view will not change until we begin abiding by the rule of law.
good point, and Canada too unfortunately, a terrorist state.
Anytime you come upon a guy wearing a suit and a smile (excluding the mandatory cheap-treads required of the working slaves) . . . do what you think is best.
I, myself, quickly clutch my billfold with my left hand, place my right hand over my ass-unit, do an about face, and run.
What's this "extrajudicial killing" crap? The word is MURDER. And the editors of the WSJ know that very well.
truth
As Einstein once said, It must be relative.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/regional/item_KJXdKMwZqBgHPdXXdGWnEP;jsessionid=45C20B7CCE3B7941E53E704CD828A607
Some very good comments above. Regarding writing for CD, that is a very iffy proposition. I used to submit articles. Never even an acknowledgment of receipt. To my surprise, they did publish two of them. "What has happened to my Country?" and "Brownshirts Dressed in Blue."
I finally gave up and found another venue.
As to the subject at hand, now that we have such government classifications as "homegrown terrorists,: and "domestic supporters of terrorism," along with the National Security blackout of information "for reasons of National Security," we may soon see the chickens come home to roost. For years, as I have protested the continuing encroachment upon our civil liberties, people have said and written, "What are you worrying about. If you obey the law, you have nothing to fear."
My answer to them has been, "What happens when they change or reinterpret the law?"
What is going to happen when, say, the ACLU or the American Friends Service Committee is classified as a homegrown terrorist organization? Anybody who has contributed to them over the years becomes a homegrown terrorist, subject to confiscation of their home, possessions, bank accounts and perhaps disappeared into one of the camps or gulags.
Just read over the Executive Orders sitting in a drawer of the Oval Office desk, awaiting the proper moment for signature.
http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1062
About the only hope I see is when the dry rot progresses to the point where the billionaires start fighting amongst themselves as to who gets to keep the whole pot. That might distract them enough for us to reassert control, but I rather doubt it. Frankly, I think before too long, we will dissolve into a number of small nation states. I wouldn't even try to predict the type or types of governments they will have.
Agree. I find it disgusting that in my town, that when we try and protest or hold up signs for a cause, the police often find excuses like obstructing the sidewalk or hanging a sign on public property (not the case) or you need a permit (e.g, if more than 6 people showup) to stop the protests. It seems the police are very selective in the groups (messages) that they choose to enforce these rules (if they are real rules). On the other hand, if I would own a megaphone media entity like Fox, I could spout all the lies and misleading information I want.
I hope that we do dissolve into a number of small nation states. I can't try to predict the type of governments they will have; maybe we could get some democracy. Maybe we can return to the Articles of Confederation. Democracy can only exist in smaller groups of people. We are too big now to have any control of the government by the people.
What we have now is an evil empire moving into Neo Fuedalism. Evil domestically and evil in foreign affairs. The breakup of this corrupt government would be a great improvement on what we have now. The coup detat in our nation took place on Nov. 22, 1963. The day they killed John F. Kennedy.
"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."
---Pastor Niemoller
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
I can't wait until Cheney and Bush Jr. are out of office.