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The Law that Turned Arizona into a Pariah State
Draconian new bill to target suspected illegal immigrants is instead driving away tourists.
They were looking forward to a busy weekend at the Arizona Inn, a historic boutique hotel set in 14 acres of lush gardens in central Tucson. Genteel holidaymakers typically pay upwards of $300-a-night to lounge by the sun-drenched pool, drink tea on the patio, or dine under the desert stars, enjoying the delicate tinkle of a grand piano. But then the angry emails started to arrive.
Demonstrators protest over the new bill to target suspected illegal immigrants. (Getty image) "We cannot come to Arizona any more," declared Joy Mann, who had been planning a road trip from her native Idaho. "I am of Mediterranean heritage, and very concerned. I don't carry papers that indicate I am an American citizen, as I was born here... this is a very scary situation. The police can now come up to you for no reason and ask for papers. My son is a construction worker and very suntanned, I would fear for him."
In all, 20 guests have so far cancelled stays at the upmarket hotel, citing either fears of, or anger about, a draconian new law which aims to combat illegal immigration from Mexico. They are part of a growing consumer boycott that aims to turn the Copper State into a modern-day equivalent of Apartheid-era South Africa. And if they were hoping to worry the locals, they have certainly succeeded.
"It's just upsetting to read these e-mails," says Will Conroy, the hotel's president, who says he started receiving cancellations last Friday, a matter of minutes after Arizona's right-wing governor, Jan Brewer, signed a contentious new immigration bill into law. "People love the Inn, but they are putting their feelings about Arizona first. And they won't be coming back, they say."
The new measure, Senate Bill 1070, instructs police across the state to stop and question anyone they "reasonably suspect" of being an undocumented immigrant. If that person cannot provide documents proving they are entitled to be in the US, they will be arrested and fined. If their immigration status cannot subsequently be confirmed, they will be swiftly deported.
Supporters of the bill - a comfortable majority of Arizonans - believe it is the only way to deal with an estimated 460,000 foreigners estimated to be living illegally in their state. Opponents say it smacks of racism, will legitimise police harassment of the Hispanic community, and destroy a grassroots economy that relies on undocumented workers to clean Arizona's swimming pools, mow its lawns, pick crops, and support its fast-food restaurants and neighbourhood supermarkets.
The spiralling row has sparked nationwide soul-searching, and brought thousands of protesters to the State Capitol in Phoenix. Yesterday, they were banging drums, saying prayers, in Spanish around a makeshift Catholic shrine, and brandishing placards with slogans like: "Stop the hate," and "Work is not a crime."
"Under this law, I will live in fear," said demonstrator Enrique Diaz Martinez, who has lived in the United States for 25 years. "I have an American wife, and children who were born here so are US citizens. I work hard and pay my taxes. But now, if I'm driving to work and the cops stop me and ask for my papers, and I don't have them, I will be committing a crime. This will destroy families."
High-profile critics of 1070 include Barack Obama. He says the draconian law underlines the importance of fulfilling his election
pledge to reform the immigration system, which has left America with an estimated 10 million illegal residents. The US President has called the Arizona law "misguided", said it will lead to racial profiling, and has ordered lawyers at the Justice Department to review whether it is constitutional.
His Mexican counterpart, Felipe Calderon, said this week that 1070 will "open the door to intolerance, hate, discrimination and abuse". The Latino singer Shakira is due to declare her opposition at a speech in Phoenix today, while the Reverend Al Sharpton is rumoured to be coming to town this weekend, and has already likened the battle against the bill to the Civil Rights struggle.
"Most undocumented people here are of course from Mexico, or look like they're from Mexico, so the police are going to focus their efforts on Hispanic people," says Daniel Pochoda, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union, which is challenging the law. "You're going to see a lot of people, who are legally here, being detained for walking down the street, just because of the colour of their skin. What could be more totalitarian than that?"
Hard-scrabble Arizonans are happy to endure a bit of condemnation, particularly from the political Left; but they are less willing to be hurt in the pocket. And that is exactly how opponents of the illegal immigration law are now hoping to overturn it. On Monday, San Francisco's Mayor, Gavin Newsom, suspended all travel to the State by city employees. LA's city council is considering a formal boycott of Arizona businesses. Mexico has advised its affluent citizens not to holiday there.
These are ominous moves, because hotels and conference centres are Arizona's biggest single economic engine, providing jobs for 200,000 people. The Hotel and Lodging Association said yesterday that most of the state's upmarket golfing venues and spa resorts are now reporting a small, but growing trickle of cancellations. In Phoenix alone, at least six planned business conferences have been axed.
"Our members are getting a lot of feedback about this," said a HLA spokesman. "It couldn't have come at a worse time, to be honest. We really suffered during the recession, and were starting to see some green shoots of recovery. Now this. The irony is that a boycott particularly hurts the Hispanic community. General managers of hotels aren't going to lose their jobs, their hourly workers are. They're the ones whose shifts are going to be cut. Our industry is one of the biggest employers of minorities and by boycotting us, you hurt them."
Many hoteliers can still recall an eerily-similar tourist boycott which hit Arizona in the late 80s and early 90s when the state's then-governor refused to pass a law creating a public holiday on Martin Luther King Day. The protest cost the local hospitality industry hundreds of millions of dollars and prompted the NFL to move a planned Superbowl to California. Eventually, in 1992, the state backed down and now MLK's birth is celebrated in Arizona every 18 January.
An occasionally-ugly history of race relations is largely an accident of Arizona's geography. Its largely-unfenced southern border is one of the best-trodden routes for immigrants from Mexico to cross to the more prosperous US. As a result, around 30 per cent of the state's population of 6.5 million are Hispanic. The Department of Homeland Security says roughly 460,000 of those are thought to be illegal immigrants
- although the recession has seen their number decline by 100,000 since 2008.
Most studies conclude that undocumented aliens contribute as much, in tax, as they cost to support. But populist right-wingers still blame them for increasing the battle for places in public schools, and clogging up free beds in emergency wards. They also moan about new arrivals failing to integrate by learning English; many of the advertising billboards in Phoenix are written in Spanish.
The big issue, however, is crime. Mexico's spiralling drug war has seen a huge rise in kidnappings and murders linked to the Hispanic community and spawned endless ugly headlines about Latino gangs. Tensions spilled over last month, when a white rancher whose property sits near the Mexican border was murdered, apparently by illegal immigrants.
"The public wants something done. They're tired of it," said state Senator Russell Pearce, who sponsored 1070, which also makes it an offence to carry an illegal immigrant in your car, or to hire one as a day-labourer. "They've seen the ineptness and the malfeasance on the part of the government, and they're frustrated."
It is no coincidence that Senator Pearce's bill was timed to take effect in roughly 90 days, just before the state holds what are expected to be closely-fought elections. The bill has high-profile supporters in local resident, Senator John McCain, as well as Joe Arpaio, the self-styled "toughest sheriff in America" who just happens to be considering a run for governor.
Mr Arpaio presides over Maricopa County, which includes much of Phoenix, and has been a constant presence on the airwaves in recent days, arguing that enforcing draconian immigration laws needn't be a drain on resources.
Yesterday, he boasted that a "posse" of his officers had just arrested 22 people at a fast-food restaurant. "I just opened 22 jobs for people here legally," he declared, gleefully. Most locals have been smiling with him. But if the consumer boycott starts to bite, and 1070 starts costing Arizona jobs, hunting down illegal "aliens" may not end up being such a vote-winner.
- Posted in
63 Comments so far
Show AllLast night I learned from an interview of Jonathan Turley by Keith Olberman that it is far from certain that the new Arizona law, which my common sense tells me is unconstitutional, will be so ruled by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Perhaps the time has come when the number of legal-sense professionals on the Supreme Court should be limited to two or three with the remainder filled by common-sense people such as housewives, medical doctors, carpenters, farmers, soldiers etc. In other words by "we the people". After all, section 1 of Article III of the constitution does not specify who should sit on the Supreme Court
I feel you here, but I am thinking that part of our problem is that the Supreme Court justices are nominated by the sitting president, and we have done so very poorly in seating presidents.
Congressional oversight has become so much less reassuring than it was, whether from continued experience or successive Congresses.
I wonder how we might broaden that process.
the law profession certainly takes care of its own...like a cancer...
And I thought my Texan politicians were stupid.
"Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the shadow"
People will laugh and think you are being ironic. I'm gay, and I'm old enough to remember sexual stereotyping in the 50s and 60s by the police. In those days you could find yourself in an insane asylum or in a hospital being given a lobotomy. It's not so funny if you are a member of a minority.
I wonder how many of the people camcelling reservations or announcing a boycott of Arizona belong to the Tea Party movement. If this law isn't an example of "big government" then what is?
[Yesterday, he (sheriff Joe Arpaio) boasted that a "posse" of his officers had just arrested 22 people at a fast-food restaurant. "I just opened 22 jobs for people here legally," he declared, gleefully.]
Hey, Sheriff Joe! Why the hell didn't you arrest the fricken owners/managers of the restaurant for employing them as well? Couldn't be that they were white could it? Somehow I doubt that hiring people who don't have documentation is legal...
I genuinely feel for people in Mexico (or anywhere) who want to come to the United States, the VAST majority are decent folks just trying to make a better life for their family and themselves...
(here's where I'll likely be called a conservative troll)
...but that doesn't mean that anyone and everyone can just enter without regard for immigration laws.
Is the immigration system flawed? YES. Should there be easier and more fair ways for people who want to work to enter the country? YES. I'm all for increasing immigration, as long as it's done within a legal framework...be that work visas, a new temporary worker program, streamlined process for citizenship, whatever. Hell, the system is so broken I don't even care at this point what the framework is
The REAL answer is the federal govt needs to step up and control the border effectively, and business/employers who hire illegal workers need TOUGH enforcement. Since that hasn't been done, I can't really blame Arizona for trying something to fill that void.
[business/employers who hire illegal workers need TOUGH enforcement. Since that hasn't been done, I can't really blame Arizona for trying something to fill that void.]
No one would be screaming about this if the law did target the employers who hire the illegals. But this law doesn't do that, it just tries to imprison the guys who are the easiest of targets. Kinda like how the 'War on (some) Drugs' targets the small time dealers and the users who don't have the ability to make deals with the cops (or bribe the judges).
I'm not the brightest bulb in the bunch, so I may be really off base here, but wouldn't Arizona enacting tough enforcement for businesses/employers who hire illegal workers face the same constitutional scrutiny that the current proposed law faces?
My understanding of a lot of the challenges being proposed is that the state/local govt doesn't have the authority to enforce federal law (immigration in this case). If that's the case, couldn't it be said that the state can't punish one entity (the business/employers) for violating a law they don't have the authority to enforce in the first place?
Not saying I agree with that logic, just wondering.
[ but wouldn't Arizona enacting tough enforcement for businesses/employers who hire illegal workers face the same constitutional scrutiny that the current proposed law faces?]
I doubt it, mind you I'm not an expert at us law either... But I'd think that employing people who aren't legal is going to raise issues of taxation. Did the company collect employment taxes for these people? Did they pay that money to the Government? That sort of thing.
Saturnalia
The State governments cannot go after employers because of interstate commerce rules in many cases and Federal law oversll. These laws have all been on the books since 1986 but the Federal govermnment has refused to enforce them.
The rerasion is quite evident and those that benefit are as plain as day.
The legitimacy of "wanting to do something" does not legitimize doing just any fool thing. So far I have encountered no criticism of Arizona based on the idea that it wishes to do something, only that it has done something vicious and stupid.
In practice, solution tends to be multiple and partial, but clearly they involve removing American military and black ops threats over the hemisphere so people can negotiate for living wages in their respective countries. Of course, that may conflict with the efforts of a few Americans to sweep the produce of those lands and peoples into their own pockets.
One cannot keep most all goods and services in one place and most all those who create those goods and services in another without violence.
The Tao addressed this many years ago:
Do not treasure rare objects, and no one will steal.
Do not display what people desire
And their hearts will not be disturbed
The sage rules
By emptying hearts and filling bellies
By weakening ambitions and strengthening bones
.
What else is new, eh?
bardamu says "So far I have encountered no criticism of Arizona based on the idea that it wishes to do something, only that it has done something vicious and stupid. "
I wouldn't quite say that. I've had far too many conversations with people whose opinions lean toward an "open boarder" policy that rejects pretty much any and all restrictions on movement over boarders.
They aren't the majority of folks though, so I'd have to agree with you overall.
The "REAL" answer is for the US to stop screwing over the people of Mexico so they can live decently in their own country (and that goes for the rest of countries immigrants come from). This is just fallout from the imperial economic warfare on the rest of the world.
Even though the law has seemingly turned Arizona into a whipping post, it will force legislators to address the bigger issue of national immigration policy. Whether they will make the problem better or worse remains to be seen. If the root cause(s) of the problem are not addressed they will only make it worse. Arizona is only the first to enact such a controversial law, but there will likely be more states to follow (if not this law than an equally unpalatable one).
It is unreasonable to expect Arizona and other border states that are already in crises to provide for an ever-increasing immigrant population. Seems more logical to go after the business who employ and benefit from their labor and make them pony up. Those employers will have to be an integral part of any path to 'amnesty' that might be proffered, if it is to succeed, meaning they will have to pay more and take responsibility for these people.
Perhaps we should grant amnesty to them if they are willing to do so--amnesty from jail-time an/or severe penalties. Time to bring all aspects of the problem out into the light. Anything short of that, IMV, is doomed to fail.
Arizona did not enact this law suddenly without cause; it did so because it is experiencing severe difficulties, which have been building in that state for quite a while. Any honest discussion must take this into account, and workable alternatives provided.
Popular myth aside, immigrants generally provide for themselves and others besides. They work hard, work well, and receive little. Moreover, they pay more in taxes than they cost in services, nationwide.
However,
having an ethnic underclass readily employable within the States does give American labor real problems, a bit like African Americans unwillingly undercut Irish labor in the Antebellum South. But current problems of this nature are dwarfed by the problems to labor caused by the enforcement of national borders and by American military depredations abroad, which allow employers to enforce poverty in isolated regions, then play one region of workers off against the other.
American workers do their cause ill service when they fail to recognize their natural solidarity with workers elsewhere and imagine that they will find surcease in Nation and in Race.
Sooo, many new workers have no effect on labor and/or wages overall? How does that work? Oh, yes, they take those jobs no else can do or are qualified for, even given a 10% official unemployment rate. Arizona is only imagining it has a problem. In fact it's a myth. They enacted this law simply because they hate immigrants. Sadly, many seem to share this fantasy.
You misread me badly. Of course immigration has all sorts of effects: they are not those you imagine. Having the workers in the States actually means paying them more than does sending the jobs south, so the effect in these cases and those impacted by these cases, even indirectly, is quite different than what you appear to assume.
Importantly, making workers more marginalized does not make them more able to require decent wages; it only makes it easier to exploit them. That aggravates the problems of those who would compete with immigrants for jobs, if not those of who employ them.
Arizona does not imagine it has problems; it imagines it understands them. Some in Arizona spin myths of race and ethnicity, perhaps attempting to understand.
Not understanding and hating immigrants go hand in hand. But let's mention hating races and classes as well, since this targets not just and not principally immigrants, but most explicitly anyone who might be "reasonably" suspected of immigrant status: the dark, the poor, the accented, the unemployed.
You mistake me in imagining I claim that all those who support this bill are racist. It does not take a lot of imagination to recognize that those who are racist will likely support it, but to classify the law and to classify the supporters are different things.
This law is racist whether those who support it are or are not, and for what it's worth I suspect that that is split. It is elitist, too, which might not be a smaller thing. It does not just authorize but mandates profiling by law enforcement officials.
It will be interesting to see what happens to that 10% figure with the divestment that must happen even if people do not see fit to protest. Since Arizona sees fit to withdraw welcome and rights of passage to those Americans who might be reasonably mistaken for foreigners or who might be associated with people who might be reasonably mistaken for foreigners, we have little choice but to divest from any commitment that might involve crossing through the state.
In my case, I might do so as an act of protest anyway, despite my feeling that my friends and most (not all!) of my relatives in Arizona do not deserve the problems that are likely to come out of this. But in my case it's a no-brainer. I have no need to pay taxes on land I cannot occupy. I have no desire to serve people who will not allow my wife or children to be with me.
I have no reason to deny that problems exist in Arizona. But some of you-all are just too hard to do business with.
bardamu
"That aggravates the problems of those who would compete with immigrants for jobs"
They aren't immigrants, they are illegal immigrants and not the same thing. And I would like to point out to you that it is the people you are talking about that are hurt by your advocacy for illegal immigrants.
"I have no need to pay taxes on land I cannot occupy. I have no desire to serve people who will not allow my wife or children to be with me."
I simply fail to understasnd why its so hard for you to understand that people do NOT want "you" here. Business weants you here, not American citizens as they have made quite plain. And yes, "you" cost our local taxpayers money, you are not an economic plus. Those facts are quite clear.
I have no reason to deny that problems exist in Arizona. But some of you-all are just too hard to do business with.
There is no business to do on this problem, no Amnesty again, no legal status again, period. We bought this canard in 1986, never again.
"I simply fail to understasnd why its so hard for you to understand that people do NOT want "you" here. Business weants you here, not American citizens as they have made quite plain."
It is said that the illegal immigrants do jobs that US citizens will not take. Construction has traditionally provided relatively good paying jobs. Many construction jobs are now held by illegal immigrants willing to work for a third of the wages formerly paid to American workers. I have seen some of this construction in Pennsylvania where I live. It is shoddy beyond belief, and the poor quality can be seen from some distance. Up close it is horrid. Plumbing that does not work. Walls an inch out of plumb. Floors an inch out of level. Roof ridges that remind one of the back of a camel. Do the builders who employ these people producing such shoddy work charge any less for the houses they build? I think you already know the answer to that. Illegal immigrants are taking jobs formerly held by Americans because the employers hire them and pay them a lot less. Hey, it's just savvy business practice, right?
Very well. It aggravates the problems of those who would compete with illegal immigrants and with legal immigrants - and with other laborers.
Clearer?
I suspect we both have similar ideas as to which people we're talking about.
Under current circumstances, "this problem" includes any business done in Arizona, and most certainly not by my design.
Half of Arizona is brown. It has the largest percentage of Latino Police Officers of any state. If this is about hate then why do Latino police officers hate Latinos?
Just in:
CASA GRANDE, Ariz (KGUN9-TV) A Pinal County Sheriff's Deputy was shot by drug smugglers along Interstate 8 near Casa Grande Friday afternoon leading to a multi agency manhunt for the shooters on the ground and in the air.
Lt. Tamitha Villar( a Hispanic) with the sheriff's office says that the deputy was shot after investigating a load of marijuana in the desert around 4:30 p.m. Friday. A short time later the deputy transmitted to his dispatcher that he had been shot by illegal immigrants who confronted him with AK-47 rifles.
(They are making a political point by calling them immigrants instead of criminals. However it is serious.)
Officer has been found and air-evacuated to the nearest hospital.
AK-47's should tell you that Arizona has problems and if you are not part of the answer then get out of the away.
The law mirrors federal law so what is the problem. Will you lose your source of cheap labor. That is real hate.
How about an open border and totally destroying Mexico like we have been for 24 years. Want to take a trip there? Do you?
My University won't let me go to Creel and finish 10 years of study of the Tarahumara Indians. (They hate the Mexicans) There are few men in town. No one to stand up to the Narcos and they have taken over and murder who ever is in there way.
We are destroying Mexico by taking the best and brightest and leaving nothing but money for the corrupt government and money for the military.
Stop thinking about yourself for once and think about the people in Mexico and what we have done to them.
"Popular myth aside, immigrants generally provide for themselves and others besides. They work hard, work well, and receive little. Moreover, they pay more in taxes than they cost in services, nationwide."
That is an absolute and total lie. You arte simply repeating talking points. If you take ONLY Federal Taxes into account and only consider the portion of illegals that pay Federal Income tax its pretty much a break even. But for Styates and local communities it is a staggering deficit cost.
If you want to know the truth, its not hard to find out at all, just look at the costs that are not reimbursed to local communities and states for the benefits, medical care and education costs that are spent on illegal aliens.
If you do this you will not make this false claim again. If you do claim that they "provide for themselves and others besides. They work hard, work well, and receive little. Moreover, they pay more in taxes than they cost in services, nationwide." then it will be clear you did not research your claim and find out its not true. Any State can provide the information for you.
You have to look at taxes and illegal immigration over a long period of time--many years. The kids that are educated "free" will eventually find jobs that will pay into Social Security and state taxes. I don't know how you would calculate a profit/loss statement--it would be too difficult. Of course, then you could like at the kind of labor that immigrants do--the kind of labor that truly connects with producing valuable goods--agricultural products, roofing, meat processing, small factories, etc. Wages are low, and taxes collected are low, but that may have more to do with the way the rich screw the poor in this country. I don't think the economics of profit and loss are as easy as you make out.
You're not checking the Feds, SS taxes, sales taxes, taxes paid by other parties on profits created by foreign labor, or some combination of the above. This is actually extremely verifiable.
chessgames56
"Perhaps we should grant amnesty to them"
Not going to happen. We did it in 1986 and this is the result. Over 80% of all Americans of all ethnicity's oppose illegal immigration at this point. The only real question is how far will this go.
It could result in even legal immigration being shut off. There is real danger here when people try to fly in the face of reality.
The cherished myths of the radical left about the make up of illegal aliens, what is really happening our borders, who benefits from their presence, who actually is funding the advocate groups and what the real costs of this problem are could very easily blow all the rest of their agenda into the void for far into the future.
This regime and this Congress are busy marginalizing us as we speak and I'm damned if I've ever seen so many blind people, so many that refuse to leave their Luddite positions before.
These are real folks with real problems looking for real solutions that are portrayed here as racist, stupid, unenlightened boobs, xenophobic goons and compassionless exploiters. Its enough to sicken a reasonable and honest person.
"Seems more logical to go after the business who employ and benefit from their labor and make them pony up"
The State cannot go after the employers which is the solution to the problem. They are restricted by Federal law doing that. They must do what they can as long as business is successful in selling their propaganda and people accept sound bites and talking points as truth.
I know as sure as I write this that Barmadu is not a racist, not a bad person or anything but a good person and yet he still refuses to consider that he may be wrong, his points are straight out of LaRaza's playbook and haven't changed for 25 years. He and others like him are the ones that worry me. The racists, bigots and haters of America concern me not at all.
And to top it off, there is absolutely no hope of passing any kind of Amnesty or legal status legislation and the politico's know it. All this is strictly political posturing. I believe they have already put it on the back burner already.
It looks as if we are all going down with the democratic ship. Opposing over 75% of the American people on every issue is not the way to success.
And yes, the ignorance displayed here on this issue has depressed me and I apologize for my long rant. But it is depressing. The result of these attitudes are going to damage the illegals far more than needed.
I believe we should grant amnesty to the ones here without granting them legal citizenship until they can pass the same exams as those that must be passed by legal immigrants. Of course that would require fluency in English. This could be accomplished by intensive spoken and written English education for all of the "undocumenteds", which wouuld help all of us, including them. In addition to that, the military should be used to simply close the border which can be accomplished without, or with minimal, violence.
Amnesty with NAFTA and current American foreign policy in place are certainly not an answer.
Though that would be better than AZ's incipient racist police-state, it would indeed result similarly to Reagan's hijinks in the '80's. Until the US quits driving people north of the border by its depredations elsewhere, the pretentious gestures of so-called homeland security are just a very nasty form of labor management.
Apparently some people imagine that such things are done to help American workers. Certainly some of its popular support is based on such ideas. But I doubt the administrators behind this miscalculate so drastically. This is calculated to disenfranchise workers, most likely along the lines described by investigative reporter Greg Palast, who documents his opinion that this a further effort to take Hispanic citizens from US voter rolls in Behind the Arizona Immigration Law:
GOP Game to Swipe the November Election at Truthout.
Whether his is correct in full, the language of the law is clearly directed at mandating profiling to keep people actually resident within the state from enjoying full rights of residency and citizenship. Being in Arizona without papers is no more or less legal with or without this law. What changes is that law enforcement officers are mandated to profile people by race and income.
They get to terrorize one part of the workforce then use them to bust strikes in the other. If they decide their market needs an adjustment, they'll issue amnesty, just like in the '80's. But I would not expect that to be structured to favor workers or immigrants or immigrant workers now more than it was then.
(By the way, we're having it out over all this, but I do appreciate the care you and Chessgames 56 and some other have shown my posts over a heated issue. )
These business would pay the amnesty costs and higher wages (equivalent to what they'd pay anyway if it wasn't for their cheap labor). Additionally, they would be required to pay ALL naturalization costs, including lawyers to fill out the forms, etc. If they tried to 'fire' these workers they would have to face a special board (at the unemployment office, which they would jointly fund), and justify their actions. That same board would serve as a safe haven for illegal immigrants to secretly report their illicit employers.
My guess, is that if 'amnesty' was granted under these conditions, it would go a long way to stemming the problem because it would cost employers more than if they hired legal residents, including heavy fines and jail time. And those immigrants already here could come out of the shadows.
This new law would have to have teeth, though, and I don't see it happening anytime soon.
"You're going to see a lot of people, who are legally here, being detained for walking down the street, just because of the colour of their skin. What could be more totalitarian than that?"
Oh, I don't now, maybe your government doing the same thing in other countries, like Iraq or Afghanistan, perhaps? If you can shoot people on sight at random Iraqi check-points there, what is the big deal about the police asking you for your papers? Could it be that your democracy is dying in installments, with hardly a whimper?
What can wake up the deluded masses in amerika to the fascist/ racist regime that rules amerika ! Its coming together as an oppressed people against inhumane laws by fascist government ; state or federal !
aldelante para La Gente !
tioche, Mexico
The sign says "We Are Human". Yes, you are, no doubt. You are also here illegally.
Pres. Obama could immediately end our stupid, expensive, hateful "war on drugs" by just decriminalizing all illegal drugs. This would reduce drugs to common agricultural products of little cost and so the drug dealers would go out of business and crime associated with drug dealing would end. I guess that actually solving the problem would be too easy for Pres. Obama. Note that most European nations have successfully decriminalized illegal drugs and have seen crime rates drop.
In TRUTHOUT, Greg Palast claims that the law is intended to take Hispanic voters from the Arizona voter rolls.
The link in my email appears broken, but Palast's title is "Behind the Arizona Immigration Law: GOP Game to Swipe the November Election."
I cannot vet it yet, but if we qualify it and say it's a partial cause, I'd say his argument's pretty good.
Mr. Palast might be full of BS. Non US citizens cannot vote anyway, and I bet the latinos who are citizens will definitely go to the polls in larger numbers than ever.
Read his "Best Democracy That Money Can Buy".
As a New Mexican I can attest to a trend of rampant disenfranchisement. Remember here, as in Arizona, a great portion of Spanish speakers have been US citizens since the Treaty of Gaudalupe Hidalgo. All the Bosses have to do is what Rhenquist did and hasta la vista democracy.
Fight the Bosses not the People.
" Remember here, as in Arizona, a great portion of Spanish speakers have been US citizens ".
That's fine. However, what i noticed with USAns is that they have little civic knowledge. A lot of americans think that if you live here you are allowed to vote. That is not true. You have to be a US citizen (born in the US, naturalized etc) to vote. If you don't do it, you're just not exercising your right. Legal permanent residents (green card holders), guest workers (H1B, L2 etc) cannot vote in elections. So the law in AZ should have no effect whatsoever on voter turnout. Judging by the hoopla that's going on right now, my guess is that voter turnout will actually be higher in the next election, on both sides.
I think the last thing people who know me would call me is a right-winger.
Let's look at it this way. I am 70 years old, my only source of income is Social Security benefits and I have Medicare A & B, for which I paid $1,146.80 in premiums last year.
We will just put aside those items partly covered under Medicare B (doctor & ambulance service) and concentrate on Medicare A.
Last October, I had a mild heart attack, which necessitated a stay of approximately 2 1/2 days in a local hospital. THe hospital billed Medicare $75,200, of which $9,400 was paid to them. I am responsible for the Medicare A deductible amount for 2009 which was $1068, which I will be paying in installments of $25.00.
If I was an illegal alien, without Medicare or any form of insurance, the hospital would write off the entire amount and probably wouldn't even waste a postage stamp sending a statement.
How do I feel about the new Arizona immigration bill? If Governor Brewer were here right now, I would plant a big kiss on her wherever she wanted it.
He didn't blame illegal aliens for anything. He just brought up a fact. You could cut YOUR resentment with a knife...LOL
Arizona is not a Pariah State to the people in Texas for the larger extent.
The college campuses are debating this very thing and the opinion runs: 75% favor Arizona and 15% against Arizona and 10% undecided or does not care.
My truck has been hit 5 times over the last 18 years, four times by uninsured Illegal Aliens. Anyone can have an accident. To not take responsibility and even fleeing is a character test.
I absolutely don't understand people who dislike Hispanics. Very common in California was total acceptance of Hispanics when I grew up. Migrant workers had green cards and other professions applied for citizenship. Juan Ramirez, my best friend growing up, parents were from Mexico. You can find his name and mine on the Virtual Wall on the internet. He died in 1965 and was proud of his country.
I was always proud of him.
Just a BTW by the US GOvernmnets own figures the number of "Illegal Immigrants" in the United States has dropped significantly since 2007. They claim that with the downturn in the economy a number of voluntarily left the country.
Many were employed in the Construction industry as example which is all but dead.
In any case the drop in said numbers was well over 10 percent. In theory and given the numbers people like Veritas tosses around, this should mean a decrease in spending in the States with the highest population of the same.
This is clearly not the case. The number of unemployed has not budged to any great degree, wages have not climed, and states are running ever larger deficits.
How can this be with a shrinking population of "illegals"?
I don't know. On the news they showed a clip of hundreds of people still streaming across the border in Arizona...there was not even a break in the line! It's really a a sad sight to see, but there it is. If it was your state or country, you could not ignore it.
What is the ultimate answer to this issue? I cannot say, but don't be surprised if, before long, Canada sees the same thing with USA'ns!
Canada DOES see the same thing and does stop you and asks for proof of citizenship.
I would love to live in British Columbia. I could still do my Anthropology way up thar... However unless I have a skill they need and cannot produce themselves you have to marry a Canadian or be a political refugee.
Like I mentioned in another post that when I work in Creel, Mexico, I would see 4 or 5 freight trains a day going north. Each train depending on it's size would have 50-200 migrants hanging on. The train will junction at Brownsville Texas but you can change trains to another direction. The Mexican government, in fact all Latin
American governments allow this. You need to know when to disembark to avoid the Trolls under the bridges, (GANGS)to make from Brazil.
I have4 witnessed this for ten years and just do the math and the number is staggering.
Mexican cities tend to have fewer males than females by a large margin. We have destroyed Mexico with our open border .
No one thinks of this. By our greed we take the best that Mexico can offer leaving behind the dregs or society. Offering amnesty had already struck a blow to the family units in Mexico and we don't care as long we can hire them at $4 or $5 bucks an hour.
We should all be ashamed.
Let's stop trying to solve the illegal immigrant problem in this forum. The point of AZ 1070 is to force the state and local police to enforce Federal law. Since AZ abuts the state of Sonora the majority of undocumented are from Mexico. The real problem with this bill is that it permits racial profiling. Granted the bill does say that it doesn't but, trust me, AZ law enforcement personnel do it now. Joe Arpaio makes sweeps through Latino neighborhoods and routinely rounds up undocumented people with no probable cause to search them. Yesterday my daughter (who lives in Phoenix) told me of two Mexican/American women (both natural born US citizens) being stopped and asked for proof of citizenship (remember AZ 1070 is not yet in force). When asked why they were stopped the officer said that their trailer hitch partially obscured their license plate. This constitutes probable cause? If anyone believes that the police will not use profiling based on skin color and will not create "probable cause" doesn't live in AZ. They can and routinely do stop people for no reason whatsoever. There is no way that AZ 1070 can be enforced without stopping people merely because they are brown. This is the great problem with this law. This erosion of my right to be safe from unreasonable search is another step towards a totalitarian state. If we can do this to the brown folk what is to stop it happening to another group? Can't you people see that this type of law is as dangerous to freedom as any attack on the 2nd amendment? I live in Tucson and do not feel threatened by Mexicans (here legally or not) but do feel threatened by these steps towards a police state. I write this as a card carrying member of the NRA and the ACLU.
Hispanics are the ethnic majority in Arizona. That certainly creates a problem as the police forces in Arizona are largely Hispanic and would be racially profiling themselves? I don't think so.
As the article states a boycott of Arizona hurts the Hispanics the most.
At this University of Texas campus there is much support for Arizona. Go online and read the Shorthorn. Read all the college newspapers and see what young people think.
Learn in stead of reacting. I constantly revise my opinions as I learn new things.
I keep an open mind, watch, and listen to those around me.
Our own government has become the OPFOR.
Why do we think we can dictate to the lives in Arizona. We don't live their lives and know what they have endured.
A person with Mediterranean features should feel right at home. I study Native Americans in the Southwest and Mexico and spend a great deal of time in Arizona now with their large populations and reservations. 5% of Arizona's population. They favor this law. They are constantly reminded of what the Spaniards did to them and frankly dislike any illegal squatters on their land.
I live in Creel Mexico for 6 months a year as I am with the Tarahumara Indians Anthropologically. There is a major rail line that passes through the Copper Canyon area and extends into the United States and throughout Latin America.
Four Freights a day travel towards America and four return. Every train heading north has between 50 to 200 people riding these trains sometimes just hanging on.
Rarely do you see a soul heading South. This is the way migrants travel from as far as Brazil. Now think about this going on for the ten years I have spent in Creel.
I cannot return as the State Department recommends all Americans evacuate the vicinity. 13 members of one family that stood up to the Narcos was killed last August. While celebrating a birthday 3 truckloads of assassins entered the hall they had rented and shot for 10 minutes. Their sons were not their to help protect them as they had gone to America, for adventure I think.
Mexico has been culturally raped by the loss of men that is obvious in every town.
The Mexican government wants the cash that is sent back home and is corrupt.
The American government has made this possible to create a source of cheap labor at Mexico's expense. To encourage this is to help further destroy Mexico and it's fine people whom I love.
American Imperialism at its best.
"Remember, remember always, that all of us - and you and I especially - are descended from immigrants and revolutionists."
Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1939, to the Daughters of the Revolution...
Legal immigrants!
My grandparents came here legally, learned to speak English and became citizens.
Having pride in your grandparents is a wonderful thing.
Being taught what is important is a gift from parents and grandparents.
All religious philosophies include respect for and seeking wisdom from those who know the most...our elders.
Anyone who wants to know anything will find answers here first.
I am proud of you for stating your case so eloquently.
That statement applies to every human on earth. What use is it? Of course we are all descended from some somewhere. Native Americans are mongoloid and their DNA resembles Siberian DNA.
The one thing you leave out is some of us were taken captive and forced to go somewhere or were like the Armenians who survived the the genocide in the Ottoman empire perpetrated by the "Young Turks" who wished to wipe out all Christians and have an Islamic Empire.
Refugees! There is no such thing as a second generation refugee as it is not heritable. They had to make it somehow.