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Tough Bill Advances in Arizona on Undocumented Immigrants
LOS ANGELES - The Arizona Legislature gave preliminary approval Tuesday to a proposal that would allow the police to arrest illegal immigrants on trespassing charges simply for being in the state.
A woman marches with a pro immigration sign during a rally for immigrant worker rights and for social justice in 2009 in New York City. (AFP/Getty Images/File/Spencer Platt) The provision, which opponents and proponents call a first in the nation, is part of a wide-ranging bill whose sponsors say they hope will make life tougher for illegal immigrants.
The House bill must be reconciled with a version passed by the Senate, something that may be done within the next week or two. Both include measures to outlaw the hiring of day laborers off the street; prohibit anyone from knowingly transporting an illegal immigrant, even a relative, anywhere in the state; and compel local police to check the status of people they reasonably suspect are in the country illegally.
Immigrant advocates call the bill some of the harshest legislation they have seen in a state where battles over immigration are particularly sharp edged.
Its sponsors said Gov. Jan Brewer, a Republican facing a primary competition from conservatives, has indicated her support, though her spokesman said she would not take a position until the final bill reaches her desk.
State Senator Russell Pearce, a Republican and the chief sponsor of the legislation, brushed aside concerns raised by civil libertarians that the law would open the door to racial profiling. The local office of the American Civil Liberties Union says the bill is unconstitutional.
Mr. Pearce said the bill gives the police another tool and compensates for lax enforcement of immigration law by the federal authorities. The police, he said, do not have to arrest every illegal immigrant on trespassing charges, but it gives them that discretion.
"American citizens have a constitutional right to expect their rights and laws to be enforced," he said in an interview.
Several police chiefs and sheriffs have criticized the bill, calling it burdensome and impractical and a tactic that will scare immigrants out of cooperating with investigations and reporting crime.
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24 Comments so far
Show AllIf Obama tries to push through an Amnesty bill, such as the one Grahm and Shumer are working on, this will more than likely look like a slap on the wrist to what will happen.
Business is going to have to learn that we can't/won't subsidize their labor anymore.
Look at the picture if you want a clue to whats wrong. Nicely printed isn't it? Who would be passing out such nicely printed signs? And it say's "immigrant" Nobody raids immigrants, they raid companies for illegal immigrants. Immigrants have nothing to fear.
All business will then do is move their businesses to where the cheap labor is. After an electrolux plant in the eastern US was raided and the "Illegals" rounded up, the compnay just shut down the plant and moved to Mexico.
Corporations the World over are already buying up farmland in other countries. It will not be long before they decide it cheaper to import fruit and vegetables from abroad because American workers want too much money and there too many enviromental hurdles that get in the way of profits in the USA.
This problem is systemic and it systemic with what we Call Capitalism. Were every Illegal Immigrant deported tomorrow within a decades time wages would once again collapse and jobs would once again be lost. The underlying issue is poverty and an inequitable distribution of the Worlds wealth. The poverty in Africa and in Haiti and in India DOES have a direct bearing on the well being of Americans and Canadians. As long as those people are kept poor, the vast majority of the Worlds people will become poorer.
The only countries that will do well in the developed world will be those like Australia and Canada and Russia that are rich in resources. Once those resources gone, they too will race towards the bottom in an attempt to compete with 1 dollar a day wages.
That's not correct. The illegal migrants in the U.S. are mostly doing jobs that can't be outsourced: meat-packing, construction, janitorial, landscaping, etc.
Last year 1200 illegal-migrant janitors were fired by a company in Minneapolis following an ICE investigation. As a result, 1200 U.S. citizens were hired within two weeks.
All of these jobs are predicated upon having a LARGE healthy Middle Class inside a country. The Capitalist system depends on CONSUMPTION. There a finite number of "Janitors" and "Meatpackers" and "Construction workers" that can be supported within a given economy.
The Construction Industry in the USA is moribund this even WITH all of those illegals because the Construction of new homes has plummeted. This can not be pinned on illegals.
Run the gamut of the "White collar jobs" and nearly all of them can be outsourced meaning more and more people will be pushed DOWNWARDS on the wage scale and will be "Competing" for those 10 or 12 dollar an hour jobs.
Under the Capitalist system this will lead to more downward pressure on wages. I mentioned the timeframe of a decade for a reason. That reason is that within a decades time Capitalism will have outsourced more of those high paying jobs and those high paying jobs help pay for many of those jobs you mentioned can not be outsourced.
Deport 12,000,000. Given no changes I can all but guarantee you 12,000,000 more high paying jobs are outsourced and lost and you are really no further ahead.
When the US economy was booming and Unemployment at 4 percent it was a FACT that companies were suffering labor shortages and especially for those lower paying jobs. Now there is a much larger pool of unemployed. "Citiznes" are now willing to compete with "Illegals" for those lower paying jobs. This is a sign that there something fundamentally wrong with the structure of the economy and the "Illegals" become a convenient scapegoat.
There are lots of things wrong with capitalism as currently practiced in the U.S. One of them is the recruitment of migrant wage-slaves in foreign countries, and all the negative results that flow from that.
Your "FACT" of a labor shortage is nonsense. Sounds like just another justification for slavery.
>>Your "FACT" of a labor shortage is nonsense. Sounds like just another justification for slavery.
It hardly a justification of slavery. I know for a fact that when Canadas economy was booming fruit and berries by the hundreds of millions of dollars worth was allowed to rot because no one was available to pick it.
I know for a FACT That during Albertas boom retailers had ads out to hire people to serve starbucks coffee at 12 bucks an hour and had no takers. I know for a fact that in Ft Macmurray Alberta stores and retailers find it next to impossible to hire help because the Plants will hire someone out of high school with no education at all for 26 bucks an hour.
I know for a fact that Canada AND the US have an aging population and that without immigrants will suffer severe labor shortages within the next decade.
This is not myth. Japan, Russia and even China are all concerned about an aging population and a looming labor shortage.
The last time I was in Ft Macmurray virtually all the stores had self checkout stands...some would think this just a means of saving money on paying staff but I knew some of those storeowners. They could not keep staff. They could not afford to train staff and then see them hired away by one of the plants at double the wage. If they raised the prices of goods too much then people just drove down to Edmonton to buy goods.
The point I am making is that this is a MUCH larger problem then one of "Illegal Immigration" The problems are structural and fundamental. The problmems of the War In Iraq and Iran and 800 billion a year spent on arms, and of the enviromental destruction of North Alberta with the tar sands and of Illegal Immigration are all LINKED. They are SYMPTONS and not a cause and we are only playing whack a mole if we try and treat the symptons all the time.
Ending the war in Afghanistan is certainly desirable but it is a SYMPTON of a problem much larger. Not having to deal with 12 million Illegal immigrants is desirable but it a SYMPTON of a problem that is much larger.
When we treat just the symptons we create MORE symptons. Imagine if 12 million Mexcian workers went home. No more income. Remittances to Mexico from workers in America are the single largest source of income for some 40 million more Mexicans.
All of a sudden they are all broke. There social breakdown and chaos. How long before the USA "sends troops to Mexico" to keep the peace and how many hundreds of billions a year will THAT cost?
A coupe of points:
There are far more than 12 million illegal aliens in our country.
Canada with hardly a larger population than my state is hardly a fair or true comparison to America.
You are correct about their aging populations, but we have well over a million legal immigrants a year plus far more work permits than that. We do not have a labor shortage nor will we be short of young people.
We are not responsible for supporting Mexico. Nor is Mexico nearly as poor as most make out.
>>We are not responsible for supporting Mexico. Nor is Mexico nearly as poor as most make out.
No your responsibility ends when your Military and Government supports coups in these countries, assassinates their political leaders or invades them in order to put in Puppet regimes whenever one of those Countries tries to introduce policies to helps their poor.
You responsibilty ends when your military plants mines in their harbors, arms terrorists with weapons in return for drugs and trains their military in the fine arts of Torture.
Your responsibilty ends when through the World Bank and the IMF you force upon these Countries the "Capitalist Model" wherein they are forced to roll back labor protections and help for the poor or face sanctions or the risk of Default.
See John Perkins expose.
See the US support of the Coup in the Honduras and their having helped topple Aristide.
See the USA in Columbia wherein your own Military boasts of bases that can now project Military power against "unfriendly nations".
One more time Sweden turned from a POOR nation that saw millions of its people emigrate because they adopted Socialist policies that redistributed wealth. Sweden was left alone by the USA because it is in North Europe and was not considered in the USA's "Sphere of Influence" nor did Sweden of a History of US Corporations taking over its resources and industry.
Swedes are not "genetically superior" to Hispanics. Everytime a Latin American leader rose to prominence in order to address the issues of Poverty as the Swedes once did, the good old USA sponsors a Coup.
If you really want to see illegal immigratin issues addressed the fact your Corporations and Government and Military are all joined at the hip HAS to be addressed first.
Chiquita banana hired Goons to KILL labor leaders for gods sake and received a slap on the wrist.
In your original claim you related your "FACT" to the "US economy." Now, you're talking about Canada. I don't dispute the facts related in your first two paragraphs. But, those are exceptional circumstances and not true of the overall job market.
As to seasonal harvesting, studies indicate that mechanical harvesting is available and the technology would be much further advanced and affordable today, if not for the decades-long availability of, and tolerance for, slave labor, making mechanical harvesting economically undesirable.
As to the oil patch in remote Alberta, the U.S. has had similar situations in Alaska during oil boom years. Of course, busts always follow booms at some point.
Your other "facts" are opinion.
No one disputes that there are fundamental problems with the U.S. economy other than migrant slavery—military spending, corporate socialism, job outsourcing, the list goes on.
Yes, remittances from Mexicans working in the U.S. to their families in Mexico are huge—about $40 billion a year, I think. But, that is money that should stay in the U.S., to be spent by U.S. citizens in their local economies, where it will circulate between three and seven times and help lift retailers, their suppliers and the overall community. (Remittances to all countries total about $60 billion/year, and taking the multiplier effect into account, that's a $180 billion/year to $420/billion a year drain on the U.S. economy.)
Helping people in other countries is a noble cause, but it doesn't justify taking the bread from the mouths of the families of our own citizens. Nor does it justify the taxpayer subsidies of corporate labor costs. Nor does it justify the mistreatment of vulnerable migrants by abusive, scofflaw employers.
>>I think. But, that is money that should stay in the U.S., to be spent by U.S. citizens in their local economies, where it will circulate between three and seven times and help lift retailers, their suppliers and the overall community. (Remittances to all countries total about $60 billion/year, and taking the multiplier effect into account, that's a $180 billion/year to $420/billion a year drain on the U.S. economy
I suggest that the amount of remiitances to all countries from inside the USA is LESS then the amount of profits and wrested out of these same nations and sent back to Corporate interests in the USA. I would also suggest that the Enviromental destruction wreaked upon these nations by these same Multinationals vastly exceeds 400 billion a year.
United Fruit Company is not in Guatemala because they are "losing money" there.
Now the difference between this back and forth cash flow is this.
The Poorest of the Worlds poor are sending money out of the United States to help the poorest of the Worlds poor.
The wealthiest of the worlds wealthy are shipping far more money back the other way to help the wealthiest of the Worlds wealthy.
You seem to think that stealing from working-class Americans is justifiable, because of the crimes of multi-national corporations. That's just wrong. I'm sure corporations in your own Canada have committed many injustices and crimes against the indigenous peoples there. Are you personally responsible for that? Would that justify your employer firing you? Should you lose your job, your home and your family simply because you are Canadian?
Your idea that Mexicans are "the poorest of the world's poor" may be romantic, but it's far from the truth. Compared to the world's poorest nations, Mexico is robust and wealthy.
And, your idea that people in the U.S. are "the wealthiest of the world's wealthy" is also inaccurate. One in four children in the U.S. don't have enough to eat. Many European nations have higher living standards than the U.S. Perhaps Canada does too.
It seems that your opinions stem from a bigoted, hateful attitude towards the U.S., and little else.
You make straw man arguements . I am not suggesting "wage slavery" I am not suggesting that one wrong is addressed by another. I am stating and have stated that the problems are SYSTEMIC and until the UNDERLYING CAUSES are addressed dealing with mere symptons only creates OTHER issues.
I am not saying I am "responsible" for what Corporations do In Canada. I "AM" responsible for recognizing that as a Citizen and working towards ending the system of Corporatism. I am responsible for trying to enlighten other people as to how Corporatism and Capitalism exploits the peoples of the World so we are not playing "whack a mole" as we try and address the symptons. The peoples of the USA continually elect one of two CORPORATE parties to power and the peoples of America are more responsible for that then I am.
The system that is Capitalism and wage exploitation and the theft of resources in other countries MUST BE ADDRESSED FIRST because THAT is the underlying CAUSE of peoples desire to emigrate.
The rest of your response is quite frankly idiotic. You take to attacking the messenger when your own arguement fails.
This a typical Zionist tactic attributing critiques of practices that are unacceptable to "bigotry and hate". It is NOT bigotry to point out that hiring people to kill labor union activists in Central America is wrong. It is not bigotry to suggest that a more equitable distribution of wealth worldwide needed. It is not bigotry to suggest that "Poor Americans" or "Poor Canadians" or "Poor mexicans" have MORE rights to a halfways decent life then "Poor Haitians" . In fact it is the very opposite.
There is no "straw man" or "attack the messenger" argument in my post. I simply responded to the comments you made, with facts and logic.
One can oppose corporatism and capitalist exploitation, as I do, without accepting one of the worst such activities: recruitment of illegal migrant wage-slaves in foreign countries to take the jobs of American citizens. My viewpoint is consistent; yours is inconsistent.
On the issue of straw-man arguments, you are making one when you suggest that I said you are bigoted because you defend the poor. That's not what I said. I said you are bigoted because you cling to notions about the U.S. that are demonstrably false, and you base your arguments and opinions on those falsehoods.
You attempt to justify, yet again, hurting working-class Americans by claiming that "the peoples of the USA continually elect one of two CORPORATE parties to power" and are therefor "more responsible" than you, a Canadian. Yes, the U.S. has done that, but so has Canada. When did Canada do something different than that?
As I said before, Canada has committed many despicable crimes against it's own indigenous peoples—not the poor in other countries, but the poor in Canada itself! You didn't respond to that. Nor did you respond to my suggestion that you take a dose of your own medicine, and give up your job and home to one of those wronged and impoverished Canadians. That's your prescription for Americans. Why not you?
We have had no labor shortage. Not with the economy booming or unemployment at 4%.
Scapegoating? Hardly. Capitalism isn't outsourcing any job. Our Transnationals are using the government to accomplish it.
Mentioning "Deportation" again is an identifier of a business shill or a racist organization like La Raza or an advocate of exploitive labor. I happen to know you are none of those, so I find it puzzling you'd bring it up again.
All economies depend on "Consumption" Every single one or you have no economy.
Illegal aliens are not responsible for our recession. What they are responsible for, as clear as I can make it, is taking jobs from Americans, depressing wages for American workers, saddling state and local economies with astronomical costs to maintain them and depriving American children of better educations and medical care.
Its fairly simple. No need to go into the costs of the criminal element or the border problems now.
It is your MILITARISM and your CORPORATIONS that are the roots cause of these Ills NOT the workers.
It is the system YOU cheer on called Capitalism wherein the excess profits off a persons or the excess profits off a Countries resources are all funneled into the pockets of the CAPITALIST class.
900 billion a year spent on a Military to kill POOR people in Afghanistan and Iraq does a lot more to drain the wealth of Americans then does any mumber of "Illegal immigrants".
If Capitalism was not stealing the resources of the peoples in Central America, and Mexico in order to fatten the bottom line of Corporations in the USA then these workers could stay home and make a living.
How many Illegal Immigrants do you have coming from Sweden? Sweden was once a major source of immigration to the USA...why did they stop emigrating?
It was because Sweden built an economy that more equitably distributed its wealth.
None of that has anything to do with this problem. Of course Iraq and Afgahnistan are drains and another particular problem. But they are exactly that, other problems.
I'd check Swedens situation before I held it up as a template for perfection, The Europhile Nirvana is not exactly what its presented to be.
No one I know blames the guy who comes across the border illegally, anyone does what is best for himself and his family if allowed. The blame rests with our government, politicians, racist organizations and religious leaders who hope to gain power from the "voting bloc's" they believe they are creating. But the largest share belongs to the business's who are the base of all these efforts.
Do you believe for one minute that illegal aliens would be allowed entry if they didn't supply a steady stream of cheap laor? Of course not.
This has nothing to do with Capitalism, this is strictly about greed and exploitation.
By the way, the cost of illegals is far more than both wars combined and its a continuing cost.
>>None of that has anything to do with this problem. Of course Iraq and Afgahnistan are drains and another particular problem. But they are exactly that, other problems.
The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are NOT unrelated problems. They are directly related to the system of Capitalism that seeks to exploit those nations resources and peoples so as to fatten the bottom line of the Corporations and the shareholders of the same in the United States of America.
This same "process" Impoverishes the peoples of Mexico and Central America forcing those people to flee those countries looking for work.
United Fruit compnay as example lobbied the US GOvernmnet to invade Guatemala in order to protect "Their assets" when a Socialist Government was elected there. Arbenze was going to address the issues of POVERTY by breaking up the United Fruiot Companies Plantations and distributing the lands to the poor. He was also going to introduce labor protections and minimum wages.
The same happened in Haiti in The Honduras and in countries too numerous to mention.
These actions have led to masses of those people living in poverty and forced to look elsewhere in order to survive.
You have a fundamental inability to see the larger picture of what goes on in this world. To you everything is an isolated and seperate incident. This is both illogical and contrary to SCIENCE.
This has EVERYTHING to do with Capitalism to ANY people who understand HOW Capitalism works. Capitalism is predicated upon one class (The Capitalist) profiting off the labor of another class (The Worker) due to the fact they have Capital and all the worker has is his or her labor. This EXCESS profit extratced from the Worker funnels to those who already have Capital.
Greed and exploitation is what drives Capitalism as witnessed by the total mess the United States of America is.
Your last statement is an outright falsification. Please cite sources.
"Greed and exploitation" are certainly what drive the recruitment of foreign migrant wage-slaves by corporate employers. It is one of the ugliest facets of unfettered capitalism.
As to U.S. military actions and wars, you may think that every American is complicit, but that's not true. Many of us have worked hard to change our government's policies, and we continue to do so.
George W. Bush was a disaster, and we now follow him with another disaster in Obama. I see them as the two worst U.S. presidents in modern history. I apologize on behalf of all conscientious Americans, for the deeds of these war-mongers and the party-first jackasses who blindly enable them.
GwNorth
"All business will then do is move their businesses to where the cheap labor is"
And I want them to. But at the same time if our markets practice the trade policies other countries use, our market will no longer be open to them. So, in essence most of our problem arises because of our poor trade and tax policies that favor Transnationals.
"Corporations the World over are already buying up farmland in other countries. It will not be long before they decide it cheaper to import fruit and vegetables from abroad because American workers want too much money and there too many enviromental hurdles that get in the way of profits in the USA."
Other than it will possibly help the poor nations in the short run to have that investment (these turds can't pack up a farm and take it home with them nor the training and education they will have to give those employees)
I'm not sure how I feel about the land buy up though. Good or bad? Just not sure. Sure its not good for the small farmer of course. Just like NAFTA killed the small corn farmer in Mexico and raised the price of tortillas.
There will always be an unequal distribution of wealth and there will always be poverty...the trick is to spreasd the wealth as far down as it will go instead of the reverse which is the system we are practicing now. A good education is the only sure help for poverty, that and equal access to opportunity.
Deportation is absurd. The only ones you hear talking about it here are the ones that favor illegal immigration. Most that oppose illegal immigration would oppose a systematic policy of deportation. Its the wrong thing to do.
Without the cheap labor wedge, without fresh waves of that cheap labor their exploitation and abuse doesn't work. Can't work. Without the subsidization of their illegal labor force by the state and local community it can't work. And without that continous stream of cheap labor...IF you fix the tax and trade policies, a living wage will return. Once again, it will depend on who wins for control of our country and the Civil War has begun. The democrats have just declared war on 70-75% of the country.
Remember, you MUST have a viable and lucrative market to sell your $1.00 an hour labor's product to because your $1.00 an hour labor can't afford to buy it.
Bravo Arizona. If all the states would follow their lead, the illegal-migrant low-wage replacement workers would go home, and others would be discouraged—rather than encouraged—from coming.
That would sure go a long ways towards putting U.S. citizens back to work, lifting wages and benefits across the board, and strengthening the entire economy from the bottom up (trickle-up actually works). It would also reduce the number of people on various welfare and subsidy programs—both illegal migrants and poor U.S. citizens. All of which is helpful to local, state and federal budgets.
Illegal aliens should not be tolerated and the people that hire them should be punished severely.
Unbeliveable! how the language gets distorted. No body I know of has any problem with immigrants!
Illegal Immigrants or as I prefer (INSURGENTS) are the problem. lazy vermin that won't learn english or french. Trash talk us on their spanish language stations when the think el blanco aint looking. These vermin need to be rounded up spayed/nutered and deported! they have no legal existence, no rights, and must be removed as quickly as possible. so we can allow REAL IMMIGRANTS from Mexico and So America that have been waiting years patiently to come to America and Canada legally.
illegal immigrants - does that mean invading Europeans like Colombus and Cortez?
Or does it mean the invading Yankee "settlers" in the occupied Northern territories of Mexico?
Nope, it means anyone who entered this country or resides here without a legal permission under our law. Its quite simple.