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Today's Top News
Israelis Reject US Loan 'Threat'
Israeli officials have shrugged off a suggestion that the US could withhold loan guarantees to pressure Israel over the Middle East peace process.
An Israeli bulldozer is seen stopped at a new housing project in the West bank on December 2. The European Union has criticised Israel for listing some Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank as special zones, saying the move is against the spirit of a freeze on settlement building.(AFP/File/Jack Guez) The finance minister said Israel did not need the guarantees, while the prime minister accused the Palestinians of holding up peace negotiations.
US envoy George Mitchell said this week the US could withhold loan guarantees to extract concessions from Israel.
The guarantees allow Israel to raise money cheaply overseas.
'Doing fine'
Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz reacted by saying the Israeli economy was doing well.
" Under American law, the United States can withhold support on loan guarantees to Israel "
George Mitchell US Middle East envoy
"We don't need to use these guarantees," he was quoted by Israeli media as saying.
"We are doing just fine. But several months ago we agreed with the American treasury on guarantees for 2010 and 2011, and there were no conditions."
In response to Mr Mitchell's comments, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office said: "Everyone knows that the Palestinian Authority is refusing to renew the peace talks, while Israel has taken important and significant steps to kickstart the process."
Palestinian officials say Israel must completely halt settlement building in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, which it occupied during the 1967 Israeli-Arab war, before negotiations can resume.
Since he came to office in 2008, President Barack Obama has focused closely on trying to get Israeli-Palestinian peace talks moving, but with little success.
Mr Mitchell, who is due to return to the Middle East this month in his latest attempt to restart negotiations, was asked on Wednesday in an interview with America's PBS how the US could bring pressure to bear on Israel.
"Under American law, the United States can withhold support on loan guarantees to Israel," he said.
Precedents
He noted that support for the guarantees had been reduced in 2003, but added that no sanctions were being considered and that he preferred persuasion.
Former US President George W Bush's administration whittled down backing for the guarantees after Israel built part of its security barrier inside the West Bank.
In 1991, $10bn of loan guarantees were withheld under former President George H W Bush to pressure Israel over the peace process.
The Israeli comments on the loan guarantees came after US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton signalled a shift in the US approach by saying that agreeing the borders of a future Palestinian state would deal with Palestinian concerns about settlement building.
Both sides should resume peace talks as soon as possible and without preconditions, she said.
But chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat played down the chances of peace talks, citing settlements.
The Israeli government has refused Palestinian demands for a complete halt to settlement building.
It has limited building work for 10 months in the West Bank, but not in East Jerusalem.
Comments
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61 Comments so far
Show AllWhat else to do with the great terrorist state of Israel but to join the DIVEST, BOYCOTT AND SANCTION against ISRAEL FOR IT'S ONGOING WAR CRIMES AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!!!! I have never felt such contempt for a nation as i do about Israel.
A white Christian Canadian
The U.S. is running a close second.
--An American
What is "white Christian Canadian" supposed to mean? I suspect you're a fraud. I think I can state with confidence that phrases like this one are not wanted by the greater part of the CD blog's readers.
Whut??
You think "White Christian Canadian"s aren't Politically Correct to speak up on CD? And what poll gave you such an authority to speak on behalf of "the greater part of the CD blog's readers"? - Count me out.
- A White (actually more like pinkish-beige) culturally christian westerner too
Beg your pardon, smartly. It's just that, when scratching the surface of someone declaring him or herself to be a "white christian", one generally finds an anti-semitic (Muslim or Jewish) racist. I simply assumed that the correlation would apply to Canadian "white christians" as well. What does being a "white christian" have to do with boycotting Israel, which incidentally, is an act I can wholeheartedly support?
The US will not do anything and Israel will continue its settlement building as well as the bombing of Gaza. Israel intends to take over every square inch and they seem to have no compunction about killing every Palestinian who may be in the way of their plans. Genocide anyone?
Let's see how well the Israeli economy does with no US help whatsoever, including the billions in military aid.
After all, the IDF has put a great deal of effort into the plan to eliminate all economic competition for Israeli businesses from the region.
Let's give that aid to the Palestinians instead and then see what the zionists have to say.
q
Cut them off!!!
We are rejecting loan guarantees--for Israel? I'm tellin' AIPAC. They will set Obama's mind straight--in a hurry. No question about who really runs this country.
The fact that the BBC chose to refer to a U.S. 'threat' (their quote marks) to withdraw loan guarantees is remarkable, given the generally pro-Israeli orientation of this news agency. They betray the same skepticism of people everywhere (including within the Israeli government) that any "threat" to Israel will be carried out, given the AIPAC stranglehold on American government, especially its Congress which will condemn, with insignificant opposition, the carrying out of any "threat" against Israel. And please note, the "threats" refer to loan guarantees which (correctly or falsely) Israel says it does not even need; and not to the massive military aid (with a stipulation that Israel buy its arms from American suppliers) upon which Israel absolutely depends to carry on its aggressive actions against Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank as well as to sabre-rattle against Iran---and on which the U.S. defense industry absolutely relies on for its profits. Maybe any U.S. threats to do THAT should be labelled as ""threats.""
Amen to Phoenix. If we truly value democracy and human rights, we need to stop all military aid to Israel.
I find Hillary Clinton's urging both parties to resume negotiations "without conditions" hypocritical. We all know that Israel will continue its illegalities with or without any such agreement, and so do the Palestinians. Agreeing to resume negotiations without conditions placed on Israel's conduct would be to give Israel permission to carry on as it is now.
Signs of Hope? There is a strong peace movement within Israel and in the U.S. And the J-Street think tank has connected with many members of Congress and gained support for its struggle to achieve peace for Israel WITH JUSTICE for the Palestinians. (See www.jstreet.org)
How about stop buying them the bullets they use to shoot Palistinian children?
Jeevee
What right do WE have to talk about shooting children?? Look at the statistics about the other illegal wars this country is waging. If only we'd mind our own business and stop trying to run the world!
Obama can easily act to Israel's detriment without the involvement of Congress - as Commander-in-Chief, he can direct that any spare parts for Israel's various planes, helicopters, etc. be withheld.
This doesn't sound like much, but within weeks much of Israel's armaments would be inoperable.
If we are to have real peace in the mideast we must stop AIPAC from determining our foreign policy there. We must better understand the connection between our occupation and fighting in Muslim countries and the terrorism we face.
AIPAC is very much an arm of the Likud party and does not represent the sizeable minority of Israelis who support a two state solution. American politicians who do the bidding of Likud should read Ha'aretz daily in order to get a sense of how real and many-sided the debate is within Israel. The secular and socialist founders of Israel continuously fought against the rightwing fanatics of the Irgun, like Netanyahu's role model Menachim Begin, who took European fascism as their model - and the fight for a humane and socialist Israel continues to this day.
AIPAC does more than support Israeli policies at the expense of the US. It stops debate cold, which ensures that there is no discussion within the US of Israels behavior.
AIPAC is now a strategic threat to the US. It is one of the reasons the jihadis are trying to kill us.
AIPAC is able to get Congress to vote overnight on bills it sponsors. This probably includes YOUR Congressperson. Call and complain!
AIPAC is a threat to our security as a nation, and it is time to call it what it is, the agent of a foreign government.
The Finance Minister is only being honest here. Israel is no longer the vulnerable state it was in 1948 or 1966 or 1973, when its very existence was threatened by Arab armies. The economy is strong and there is no threat from any of its neighbors - and that includes Iran. This makes a two state solution more likely within the coming ten years or so than it might seem.
If you read Chomsky, Pappe, Finkelstein you'll quickly realize how silly your post is.
As I said above, reading Ha'aretz offers a balanced and hopeful view of the ongoing dialogue within Israel. I also suggest that reading Amos Oz, both his fiction and his political essays, is a better guide than angrier voices, with which I am also familiar.
Here's a sample of what can be found in a major Israeli newspaper that could never be found in US mass media dominated by the AIPAC/Likud agenda:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1141442.html
Many Israelis are fed up with a regime that caters to religious extremists and their voices are growing louder. They don't like their self-destructive crazies any more than we do ours.
The Israelis have not, are not, and will not accept a Palestinian state. Only a willfully blind person would not recognize that the war criminal administrations of Israel are only interested in making life so miserable for the Palestinians that they will leave.
My one fervent hope is that the Israeli people will in the future be treated with the same merciless viciousness as they have shown to the Palestinians.
History showed us that the Palestinians were the ones who rejected the idea of a Palestinian state alongside Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal-Weizmann_Agreement
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_peel.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit
Letto you always post revisionist history....Go take up your grievances with Egypt for "your" land and Rome for kicking out your sorry, cowardly behind 2000 YEARS AGO!!!
Israel's conduct is a blight on humanity.
With the complicity of USA and the rest of the West. Done in my name, too, even as I strongly object. - It makes me sick.
"Everyone knows that the Palestinian Authority is refusing to renew the peace talks, while Israel has taken important and significant steps to kickstart the process."
Who is everyone? Clue us in on these "significant" steps!
Gail: "Clue us in on these "significant" steps"
Israel had agreed to a Palestinian state alongside Israel. -This is something that the Israeli right wing had never agreed to before 2009.
In addition, Israel had agreed to a 10 month total freeze of all settlements in the West Bank, (not including East Jerusalem.) - This is something that no Israeli Government, ever, agreed to.
I'd like to see some references for your "facts," especially since I've challenged this kind of hasbaric lie in previous threads and received no substantive responses.
q
Sure, quickstepper, here are the references you've aked for:
1. Right wing PM agrees to a Palestinian state: (The Israeli Left had agreed to that long ago)
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1092810.html
"The truth is that in the area of our homeland, in the heart of our Jewish Homeland, now lives a large population of Palestinians. We do not want to rule over them. We do not want to run their lives. We do not want to force our flag and our culture on them. In my vision of peace, there are two free peoples living side by side in this small land, with good neighborly relations and mutual respect, each with its flag, anthem and government, with neither one threatening its neighbor?s security and existence."
2. 10 month settelment freeze:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1130636.html
The Israelis push the Palestinians off Palestinian land and then turn around and say "we do not want to force our flag and culture on them" so now they must accept apartheid.
Well isn't that about as considerate as a racist can be.
Can you show us a link to an article where an Israeli leader say the Palestinian must accept apartheid?
I don't need a link. It is happening on a daily basis right in front of the world's eyes.
I know you don't need a link or a proof of any sort. Only a strong zealots faith in your righteousness.
I, on the other hand, am open minded, and open to criticism based on facts. And facts alone.
You're as open minded as a robot with its motherboard and circuits splattered all over as it's getting a weekly maintenance check. Now that's what passes for OPEN mindedness in your world.
I know, because I have figured you out months ago. In fact, you are so transparently fake and hypocritical, there are no words to describe that behavior. If the stereotypical used car dealer label could somehow be amplified to the Nth degree, it would still not capture the essence of your two-faced, psychopathic, and deceptive behavior.
And for the record, it is transparently obvious that you are the zealot. Projection makes you look even more ridiculous.
PS: What's the point of your hijacking every discussion with that historical revisionism of yours on every thread that deals with the Palestine/Israel issue?
Are you not up to speed on current events? Did someone brainwash you at a young age with lies and spin that all you know how to do now is pass them off as relevant facts?
If you're trying to distract people from the crimes being committed by Israel on a daily basis, then I'll have you know that many people - contrary to your own perceptions and personal abilities - are capable of doing both at the same time, that is discussing Israel's current violations of international law and dispelling your incessant lies. It's really not that complicated. It's just that not everyone has the patience or the time to literally babysit you and address your nonsense every time you burp.
"The truth is that in the area of our homeland, in the heart of our Jewish Homeland, now lives a large population of Palestinians..."
"in the heart of our Jewish Homeland"... (Gaza & the West Bank)? Is that the Jewish homeland he is talking about, having a large population of Palestinians?
Sounds like European settlers talking about the western U.S. and it's population of native inhabitants!
Let's see, the Israelis steal 78 percent of Palestine and then is willing to grant a disjointed apartheid (checkerboard) state plus a 10 month (not permanent) freeze on settlements, and you use these as examples of "significant steps" by Israel?
How about I occupy you and your family's house for 40 years and make you go through my checkpoints if you want to move from room to room?
Any suggestions as to what significant steps I might take to rectify my crime?
I hope it's not too rude to ask, but I have a few questions to you, aremagen.
Which country are you from?
Where are your ancestors from?
Who owned the land your house is build on, before your ansestors came there?
My ancestors came here after the land was settled but more importantly, unlike Israel, it was settled long before there were established international laws against such types of foreign aggression.
Nor did my ancestors commit crimes against those who were here before us or those who came later.
Nor do I or my family continue to commit the crime of ethnic cleansing in the present.
If what I said has no influence on your thoughts then please refer to the numerous UN resolution votes over the past decades which would have overwhelmingly condemned Israeli atrocities had it not been for a US veto.
aremagen: " the Israelis steal 78 percent of Palestine"
Until 1922, Palestine included Jordan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine
That means one can also say that Israel is only keeping 20% of Historical Palestine.
---
aremagen: "My ancestors came here after the land was settled but more importantly,
unlike Israel, it was settled long before there were established international laws against such types of foreign aggression."
First of all, before 135 AD, Jews were the majority in the land (At that year they were expelled by the Romans). That means that the Jews of Israel are people who return to their homes after many generation in exile, and not some foreign invaders similar to the Europeans who came to America.
Second: Before the creation of Israel, by large, Jews immigrated legally to Palestine, they legally bought land at asking price, from people who put a "for sale" sign. This is NOT stealing.
The only large scale "stealing" happened during Israel's war of Independence (1947-1949). That war was initiated by the Arab side, who seek to massacre the Jews of Palestine. The Arab lost, and Israel did took land by force during that war.
Please note that the Arabs were the one who initiate the war. Nothing like that would have happened if they would have accepted UN partition plan (Resolution 181).
Please also note that more land property was stolen from Jewish communities throughout the Arab world. (There communities, virtually became extinct.)
---
aremagen: " If what I said has no influence on your thoughts then please refer to the numerous UN resolution votes over the past decades which would have overwhelmingly condemned Israeli atrocities had it not been for a US veto."
The UN is a political organization, without any appropriate safety checks over its own operation. The reason why the UN is over obsessed with Israel, why the victims of Israel received, on average, 3,000 times more attention than the average victims on this planet, is because UN's platforms are cynically manipulated by small politics, and local interests.
You can learn something about UN bias against Israel, and how some UN bodies violate UN charter, here:
http://www.unwatch.org
Pay special attention to the UN Human Right Council, that since 2006, more than 80% of their country specific resolutions were against Israel, and less than 20%, were against the rest of the world combined.
Check also the wikipedia article: "Critisism of the United Nation"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_United_Nations
Look for the "Attention given to the Arab-Israeli Conflict", and for the "Allegations of anti-Zionism and antisemitism"
Please refer to the excellent MERIPs primer on the history of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict (Middle East Research and Information Project).
In the year 1900 according to records from the Ottoman empire there were about 10,000 Orthodox Jews in Palestine. That's all.
There was immigration of European Jews after the Balfour declaration of 1917, which coincidentally took place one month after the Russian Revolution of 1917.
Prior to the 1948 war Israel was able to purchase only about 7 percent of the land needed for an Israeli state.
During the war Israel conquered (stole) 77 percent of the land that was Palestine. By the way, what does the year 135 A.D. have to do with anything. Are we all to set all borders back to 135 A.D. in order to give credence to Israel's theft?
Yes, the Arabs did initiate the war because they believed the influx of Jewish immigrants was merely a "settlers colony", not the beginnings of a Jewish state which the Arabs would have resisted much earlier.
Finally, you can slice the UN anyway you want to but when the world consistently hears of votes concerning Israel (not Palestine) where 170-190 countries vote against Israel then it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. Those kinds of numbers make your statement that the UN "is cynically manipulated by small politics and local interests", quite laughable.
aremagen: " In the year 1900 according to records from the Ottoman empire there were about 10,000 Orthodox Jews in Palestine. That's all."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine
In 1890, 43,000 Jews lived in Palestine.
In 1914 94,000 Jews lived in Palestine.
I don't know where you get your statistics from, you might want to consider a more reliable source.
---
aremagen: "Prior to the 1948 war Israel was able to purchase only about 7 percent of the land needed for an Israeli state."
I'll assume that when you wrote "Israel was able to purchase" you meant "Jews were able to purchase..." (Israel didn't exist before 1948, and besides, not all Israelies are Jews.)
Saying that in 1948 Jews privately owned 7% of land is true, but it could be misleading, because Palestinian individuals didn't own 93% of the land.
How much land was owned by Palestinians? More than 7%? Less than 7%? How much was owned by other minorities, churches, foreigners, government, no one etc?
---
aremagen: "During the war Israel conquered (stole) 77 percent of the land that was Palestine."
You are exaggerating. 50% of Israel was desert, which was owned by no one. 7% was owned by Jews. Those Palestinians who remained in Israel (20% of Israelis) still own their land. 22% was occupied by Jordan and Egypt.
Show me the math. How did you get to the number 77%?
Also, please don't forget that Jews who fled Arab countries left behind private land bigger than private land left behind by Palestinians.
---
aremagen: "By the way, what does the year 135 A.D."
It means that Jews have Historical link to the land.
If you say that History means nothing, surly 1900 also means nothing.
---
aremagen: "Finally, you can slice the UN anyway you want to but when the world consistently hears of votes concerning Israel (not Palestine) where 170-190 countries vote against"
Show me one resolution where 190 UN members voted against Israel. I kind of suspect that this number is somewhat inflated.
In most of the numerous anti-Israel votes, most of the democracies voted with Israel. Unfortunately, the UN consists of mostly non-democracies. Moreover, the 56 member of the Islamic block (plus their many allies) will ensure an automatic majority against Israel unrelated to who is right or wrong.
A simple DNA test would determine where the Jews in Israel come from. They are not semitic. This puts to rest your mindless and inaccurate revisionist history. Wherever WE come from, the issue remains that Israel behaves as an apartheid, racist, brutal regime. There is no honest existential excuse, nor argument, for the state of Jewish Israel. The experiment has failed. Miserably.
on and on...
the zionist rats crawl out of their holes, baring their broken and bloody teeth...
I like this thread. The blind,
revisionist, thick BS
by Letto is
thinning
to
a
s
l
i
m
y
d
r
i
b
b
l
e
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.
"I hope it's not too rude to ask, but I have a few questions to you, aremagen."
****************************
This guy is hilarious. His delicate sensibilities do not allow him to ask "rude" questions, but he has no qualms with ethnic cleansing or historical revisionism and lies, and propaganda and dishonesty and the justification of occupation.......
Gosh darn it, "If I wasn't before, NOW I'm offended", should be the reaction to that "rude" question.
Gosh, I'm impressed. Now, when will they lift the blockade and stop killing Palestinians?
"Israel had agreed to a Palestinian state alongside Israel."
Wonderful! Where do the ownership border lines fall? Do they plan on withdrawing from the West Bank where approximately 500 thousand Israelis have settled?
Hey Zahyin,
Why do you lie about "Israel agreed to a Palestinian state alongside Israel", when Netanyahu and his minions have clearly said that they will only recognize a sovereign Palestinian economic entity that is unarmed and demilitarized?
Was it your intention to lie, or do you have a reading comprehension disorder?
camus13
Obama just, under cover of darkness, signed up for $30 billion to Israel at $3 billion per year for 10 years.
The best part, the money is for military equipment, and 75% of the money must be spent with US arms dealers.
In other words WE THE PEOPLE are spending our tax money for Israel's military equipment.
This deal is ongoing and in the past Israel has found ways to go around the buy US clause and spend it in Israel. It's not that I'm all for our arms (death) dealers they all can go to hell, including Finestein's husband, but.........
Could this money be spend on a single payer health plan?
If not, why not?
Stop giving away our money to those damn zionists!