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Hillary Clinton: Afghanistan Vote Legitimate Even if Abdullah Boycotts
Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State, has said the Afghan elections would be legitimate even if Abdullah Abdullah boycotted the run-off poll, leaving President Hamid Karzai unopposed.
Following widespread fraud in the August first round, Dr Abdullah and his backers have demanded a list of anti-fraud measures.
This handout picture released by the Associated Press of Pakistan shows US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton gesturing during her visit to the historical Badshahi Masjid in Lahore on October 29. Clinton said on Saturday that a boycott of the run-off election in Afghanistan by runner-up Abdullah Abdullah would not de-legitimise the poll. (AFP/HO/File)
His supporters
have said he will boycott the November 7 second round if measures he
has called a "minimum" needed to avert a repeat of pro-Karzai
vote-rigging are not enacted.
Mrs Clinton's comments came amid signs the coalition is no longer expecting a second round to take place and is instead seeking to resolve the political limbo gripping Afghanistan as quickly as possible.
The Abdullah camp said it would announce whether their candidate would pull out of the run-off at a 9.30am (5.00am GMT) Kabul rally on Sunday, but an official added: "We will not participate in an election which is not transparent and fraud-free."
Diplomats have told the Sunday Telegraph they estimate the chances of a second round proceeding to be less than half and falling.
London and Washington are hoping Dr Abdullah will retire "graciously" as an angry boycott would instead risk ethnic violence as his Tajik backers refuse to recognize the result and order their supporters onto the streets.
A two-man run-off was ordered after the disqualification of nearly a million fake Karzai votes meant neither had crossed the 50 per cent threshold marking victory.
Mrs Clinton said the withdrawal of a candidate would not be "unprecedented" and would not affect the legitimacy of the vote.
She said: "We see that happen in our own country where, for whatever combination of reasons, one of the candidates decides not to go forward.
"I don't think it has anything to do with the legitimacy of the election."
Afghanistan's supreme court may be called to rule on whether a second round would be needed in such a case, but few doubt the Karzai-appointed court would back his victory.
Dr Abdullah had demanded the sacking of Azizullah Ludin, chief electoral organiser, the suspension of three ministers and closer scrutiny of polling and counting.
However, none of his key conditions have yet been met and international officials have said the second round is likely to be just as tainted by fraud as the August 20 poll.
The Karzai-appointed Independent Election Commission (IEC) has refused to sack staff and has said it will open more polling centres in the second round, despite UN and international requests to stick to fewer, better-observed stations.
Dr Abdullah had accused Mr Karzai of using the state apparatus to swing the vote.
One election observer said the limited concessions made to prevent further fraud were "ludicrous" and a second round would be a "pretence of a free and fair election" He said: "Stand by for the chorus of 'Afghanistan is not Sweden.'"
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41 Comments so far
Show AllShe said: "We see that happen in our own country where, for whatever combination of reasons, one of the candidates decides not to go forward.
"I don't think it has anything to do with the legitimacy of the election."
-- If a candidate pulls out in protest over the non-legitimacy of the election, then it has everything to do with the non-legitimacy of the election.
Duhh!
Hillary Speak. A born politician that can spin faster than a speeding top.
Karzi is Hillary's legitimate corrupt, drug dealing, thug and that oxymoron is true!
About the only things you can count on with the American government are its corruption and its stupidity. And that's soup to nuts.
Is that her Zombie costume?
I guess Abdullah would boycott running in the USA for the same reasons.
Let these Afghans be and stop attempting to manipulate them for imperial purposes.
Wicked Witch of the Mid-East?
Wicked Witch of the West Wing?
Seriously, that's an interesting combination of West and East, lads, & I doubt she wears it for the American public. That cloth around the head echoes traditional female attire over most of the spread of the Indo-European languages, central Asia in particular.
Would the policy were anything but cover and shill for rape and murder, torture and theft:
That's not Hillary Clinton dressed as a witch; that's the Witch of the West dressed in the image of a woman Clinton hopes Central Asian women might relate to in some way -- not bound by Sharia law, but not mindless of the distinct engagement of a woman with the polis.
Would it all were anything but cover and shill for rape and murder, torture and theft.
Remember Bhutto was indicted for $2B in embezzlement from when her father was in power, and many think Benazir was given the choice of running against Musharraf, or going to prison. So she bravely soldiered on to her programmed demise, which effected Musharraf's removal, and installed Bibi's billionaire widower Zardari in her place.
We have a Pakistani:US proxy in government now with Zardari, but at the same time, we lost a backchannel with Pakistani military, since unlike Zia al-Huq and Musharraf, both high-level military men themselves, Zardari is another crook and con-artist like Bill Clinton, and mark my works you can expect a Pakistani version of the PNAC coming out of the Pakistani military after this Swat and Waziristan house cleaning operation is over, unless, and it's probably the case, Zardari is massively bahkshishing the generals not to stage a coup, which may be where the missing $5.6 BILLION in US aid disappeared to, and why we will have to keep pouring massive 'aid' into Pakistan.
That she would be so transparently shallow just chills me to the bone, considering the millions, tens of millions of lives at stake. She's another Madeleine Albright, and on the whole, I think it was worth it.
First, demanding that a country hold an election in the middle of a violent occupation by foreign forces and with thoroughly inadequate electoral safeguards is ludicrous. Next, insisting that it be held a few weeks after the revelations of massive vote fraud without allowing time for a thorough public discussion in Afghanistan about the implications of this is inappropriate.
Thus, the new election is guaranteed to be a sham. The Obama White House clearly is anticipating the negative worldwide reaction to the vote--and so they are preparing the US public to accept the results anyway.
All of that being said, there must be a back story to this situation; the US must be applying pressure behind the scenes to impose some changes in the personnel or policies of the Afghan government. After all, Karzai is not an effective client, and the situation in Afghanistan looks to be spinning out of control.
We are definitely not getting the whole story here. Hillary Clinton's comments are a message delivered by a grocery clerk.
DepSecState for Management and Resources Jacob Lew said on C-SPAN that STATE/USAID is 'surging' 974 new embassy staff into Kabul from Treasury and Justice, and contacts in government there says the plan is to 'box Karzai in' and effectively seize control, while leaving him as a defacto dictator with the ANA:ANP jackboot on the throat of the Afghan people. A contact in business there shared US:ISAF memos saying that Karzai has notified US:ISAF that there is now only one State-approved media monopoly in Afghanistan, and US:ISAF went along with that, cancelling all contracts effective immediately with existing private Afghan media operations. Newspapers are being shut down and advertising is being defaced, billboards toppled, the State media arm is owned by Abdul Qayum Karzai, a Karzai brother living in the US. Clinton supported UN SecGen Ban Ki-moon sacking SE Peter Galbraith for insisting the elections were fraud, and privately wrote, 'can't we just go forward to the 'victory' speech'? In fact, contacts in government there said Karzai floated his victory speech at the end of August, when the polls showed only 40% of the vote, but his speech claimed 53%. So he can't say he wasn't aware of the ballot stuffing, and Clinton can't say she supports fair elections, because SA Holbrooke flew to Kabul the next day after Karzai's draft speech and engaged in a screaming match with him that giving the appearance of an Iranian voting fraud would mean he wasn't 'legitimate and certified', which is all they care about.
http://afghanistanpetroleum.com and now we're supporting a narcostate dictatorship.
So, is the NEW Progressive strategy to wait for Santa Obama as he waits for NATO which waits for legitimate elections which probably can't and won't happen?
That's DAFT.
Listen to what Ms. Merkel says this week.
"Liebes Gott! I can finally come here and not get molested by an American President."
www.assistavideos.com.br/video/1060/Bush-Molests-German-Chancellor-Merkel.html
The US military in Afghanistan has called for tens of thousands more troops.
The UK has already promised to surge 500 more troops into Afghanistan (a pittance, but an escalation).
Now Germany will be asked for its commitment, its levy of troops and money. What Ms. Merkel says during her visit will give an indication as to Germany's and NATO's surges, if any.
NATO is said to be waiting for legitimate elections which haven't happened yet and probably won't any time soon.
Translation: Hey we have rigged elections in the US all the time now and our people accept it, so can you..
America's (official) blithe acceptance of this transparently corrupt and illegitimate situation is a reflection of the same situation inside the U.S. itself.
Another 'Diebold' election? It's impossible to tell one gangster from another without a program.
Can one even begin to fathom the cost to the American taxpayer in the security apparatus used to protect the murderous harpy from assassination?
The number U.S. attack helicopters massing and whirring overhead must have blotted out the Afghan sun!
–(Jill Bains)
What a wonderful opportunity to further lower the standards for what is considered a "legitimate" election. It is difficult for me to imagine what will pass for a "legitimate" election in the US in or after the year 2016.
We're spreading Freedom and Democracy, whether you like it or not!
Now, hold on here!
In Amerika, where money is freedom, our newest and most enduring commitment is to hold the best elections money can buy!
It's just this golden standard that put Madam Secretary in the position she's in today!
Can Amerika demand anything less from the Governments Sitting in Darkness it has affectionately and altruistically taken under its wing?
· Yr Obd't Servant
Because she sez so
Her indigo outfit stands out like a sore thumb, an easy target for a sniper. We don't need any more excuses to bomb and invade.
JERUSALEM – U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Saturday that Israel is making "unprecedented" concessions on West Bank settlement construction — a position clearly at odds with the prevailing Palestinian view.
Hillary's on a roll but how her teeth must ache!
I know that Bill's pardons bought her Senate seat but still....
Surprise_witness writes:
"First, demanding that a country hold an election in the middle of a violent occupation by foreign forces and with thoroughly inadequate electoral safeguards is ludicrous. Next, insisting that it be held a few weeks after the revelations of massive vote fraud without allowing time for a thorough public discussion in Afghanistan about the implications of this is inappropriate."
To the extent there is ANY legitimacy in an Afghan election (which I doubt), probably the main excuse for speeding up the second round runoff is their brutal winters. Many fewer would show up to vote if it were put off, thus further compromising the result.
***
Amfortas wound writes:
"Can one even begin to fathom the cost to the American taxpayer in the security apparatus used to protect the murderous harpy from assassination?"
When I saw that picture, those gestures, and that outfit I had this image of Benazir Bhutto, on whom years ago I had a crush. Never felt the same about Hillary though! I suspect that her handlers were using Bhutto images and want to place her as America the Martyr. Given our National Debt it could actually sell!
Meanwhile, is anyone actually BUILDING an oil or gas pipeline through Afghanistan or are we taxpayers just spending billions for consultants to design one?
Also, a friend of mine tells me he knows a guy in Bloomington Indiana who is writing a new opera: "Taliban in Crawford." Part of the theme is a back story about the Afghan opium trade to China and to Turkey for processing heroin for Europe.
Karzai is first and foremost an oilman, as his CV makes clear, just as was Condi Rice (who truth be told has a penis and a grand piano).
Apologies if my sense of humor puts you off, but this article just amuses me. If my home town were under attack by men armed with machine guns and grenades and carrying 150 pounds of materiel on their backs, would I care who was running for the next Town Council election? How much more surreal can things get? How about this: a WINTER Taliban offensive in Kabul!
After all, they have already hit really major military targets in Pakistan. Meanwhile, where are our FRIENDS, the Saudis, in all this kabuki?
Finally, a simple question: who the hell is smoking all that Afghan opium and shooting up that Turkish heroin that is allegedly subsidizing by billions annually the Taliban (who opposed opium growing a few short years ago). T'ain't me! Although I sure could use some right now. The poppy is a really beautiful plant cross-pollinated for thousands of years by humans. Too bad Big Pharma has such a hard time copywriting and patenting it.
Mark my words: at least half the war in Viet Nam was a drug war. Same in Afghanistan. Not sure about Iraq. Seems more "civilizational." In any case, as one who has spent half a century reading and writing about this stuff and participating in it, I am convinced that we have no business being there, in no small part because the American people are just plain ignorant about "foreign affairs," being too busy working to try to pay off their threatened foreclosures and the daily commute to their useless jobs in their fucking fancy cars during "rush hour" when snorting coke at a red light is the thing to do in anticipation of the day ahead. Pump yourself up and think of the governor of California on steroids. It's a good thing he is not native born, unlike Obama! The bastards have us just where they want us. Ignorant and delusional. How did this happen and what will it take to raise up this country to what it promised SO LONG AGO?
And God Bless America. And God Bless the Congress of the United States for the wisdom of its forthcoming Health Care Plan. Are we a Nation of Cynics yet? And God bless America for bailing out those big banks that were too big to fail. Why am I too small to fail? Consider the inverse. What feeds the Big Banks? Little people like me. And you.
The international financial system has to collapse. It is killing the planet and thus you and me. See if you can find data on how much oxygen versus nitrogen versus CO2 or methane you can afford to breathe on a daily basis before you die.
We need a massive global Repudiation of the existing system. I suspect Gorbachev would agree. Putting off the global energy revolution will only make the inevitable more painful.
There. I've finally said it!
I hope this is a contribution to the DEBATE!
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OleManRiver, I had not thought of Hillary in the image of (or channeling) Benazir Bhutto, until you mentioned it.
Do you think. perhaps, that Hillary is herself planning to run for President of Afghanistan (or Pakistan, for that matter).
That would be simply smashing --- bloody smashing (as they would say in the days of the British Empire).
Instead of Lawrence of Arabia riding a camel, we might be treated to 'Hillary of Afpak' riding a donkey.
Alan
Yes She does look like a Bhutto look-a-like.
Perhaps Pakistan will send us a Howdy Dody -- I mean Ronald Reagon -- imitator.
Afgha Nam
The Afghan minister of counter narcotics says foreign troops are earning money from drug production in Afghanistan.
General Khodaidad Khodaidad said the majority of drugs are stockpiled in two provinces controlled by troops from the US, the UK, and Canada, IRNA reported on Satruday.
when asked about the karzai- abdullah matchup, Malalai Joya said "same donkey, different saddle" which will apply in any u.s. run election in Afghanistan.
It also applies in any US election
Same ass, different saddle
Of course, Mr. Hillary would go asny ass, bareback preferable
This whole Afghan election bruhaha reminds me of the healthcare debate: much ado over a contest that is a "heads I win, tails you lose" proposition for those who make it their business to be in charge of everything..
Brand Kharzi is now so 10 minutes ago that he must be replaced by brand Abdullah who will assume the position and do the will of his multinational and CIA handlers regardless of what anybody else thinks or (especially) what the Afghan people want (to be left alone so they can fight it out to see who will rule what part of that moonscape will be ruled by which of the many different ethnic clans that inhabit them).
Poet
She's showing her claws, just like the other Neo-Cons.
'Legitimate and certified' they chant around the Pentagonal Crucifix altar, 'certified and legitimate'.
It could be Bugs Bunny in Kabul, as long as they can tie a pen to his certified and legitimate paw in time to sign the oil and gas leases that have already been auctioned off, and are set to sign on or before February 5th, 2010.
http://afghanistanpetroleum.com
$100B's in oil and gas ... gone. Copper reserves the largest in Central Asia ... gone. Iron and coke reserves the largest in Central Asia ... next on the auction block.
And NOT ONE WORD in the US:UK or US:UK leaders, even though their expropriation of $100B's in Afghan natural resources are the largest projects in this region's history.
http://i38.tinypic.com/2v2z7sl.jpg
Chip 1:42 ----- Funny Post! Sad but True
abdullah is just another bad choice, people like RAWA are left far away in the background. No matter who wins the afghans lose.
In case you haven't seen this:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/u_s_condemned_for_pre_emptive_use
Joe
the good news?
as was the case with albright and rice, the Secretary of States' washroom didn't need remodelling for clinton either.
the urinal stayed.
Fire Hookery "Rodham Klanton and tell her husband to get back to his job of being honorary head of the Klan in Arkansas,
AD
Fire Hookery "Rodham Klanton and tell her husband to get back to his job of being honorary head of the Klan in Arkansas,
AD
The German poet Goethe wrote the famous poem "the sorcerer's apprentice". It was set to music by Paul Dukas and used for a cartoon by Walt Disney. With regards to our occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan and the berating of the government of Pakistan by Mrs. Clinton I have come to the conclusion that this administration is a political sorcerer's apprentice. Lots of running around with buckets of money but no end in sight. The scary fact is that there appears to be no sorcerer to come home and stop the idiocy.
crow 6;58 -------- excellent post
The return of satrapy.
The end of the American Experiment can't come soon enough.
Between this and the last post, the opposition has chosen not to run. De facto Karzai. So now we have a "legitimate government" in Afghanistan like we have in Iraq.
Good word, satrapy. I looked it up just to make sure. 19th-century Brit empire word.
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