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Carson Soldiers Say Iraq Horrors Led to Crimes
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - Soldiers from an Army unit that had 10 infantrymen accused of murder, attempted murder or manslaughter after returning to civilian life described a breakdown in discipline during their Iraq deployment in which troops murdered civilians, a newspaper reported Sunday.
Some Fort Carson, Colo.-based soldiers have had trouble adjusting to life back in the United States, saying they refused to seek help, or were belittled or punished for seeking help. Others say they were ignored by their commanders, or coped through drug and alcohol abuse before they allegedly committed crimes, The Gazette of Colorado Springs said.
The Gazette based its report on months of interviews with soldiers and their families, medical and military records, court documents and photographs.
Several soldiers said unit discipline deteriorated while in Iraq.
"Toward the end, we were so mad and tired and frustrated," said Daniel Freeman. "You came too close, we lit you up. You didn't stop, we ran your car over with the Bradley," an armored fighting vehicle.
With each roadside bombing, soldiers would fire in all directions "and just light the whole area up," said Anthony Marquez, a friend of Freeman in the 1st Battalion, 9th Infantry Regiment. "If anyone was around, that was their fault. We smoked 'em."
Taxi drivers got shot for no reason, and others were dropped off bridges after interrogations, said Marcus Mifflin, who was eventually discharged with post traumatic stress syndrome.
"You didn't get blamed unless someone could be absolutely sure you did something wrong," he said.
Soldiers interviewed by The Gazette cited lengthy deployments, being sent back into battle after surviving war injuries that would have been fatal in previous conflicts, and engaging in some of the bloodiest combat in Iraq. The soldiers describing those experiences were part of the 3,500-soldier unit now called the 4th Infantry Division's 4th Brigade Combat Team.
Since 2005, some brigade soldiers also have been involved in brawls, beatings, rapes, DUIs, drug deals, domestic violence, shootings, stabbings, kidnapping and suicides.
The unit was deployed for a year to Iraq's Sunni Triangle in September 2004. Sixty-four unit soldiers were killed and more than 400 wounded - about double the average for Army brigades in Iraq, according to Fort Carson. In 2007, the unit served a bloody 15-month mission in Baghdad. It's currently deployed to the Khyber Pass region in Afghanistan.
Marquez was the first in his brigade to kill someone after an Iraq tour. In 2006, he used a stun gun to shock a drug dealer in Widefield, Colo., in a dispute over a marijuana sale, then shot and killed him.
Marquez's mother, Teresa Hernandez, warned Marquez's sergeant at Fort Carson her son was showing signs of violent behavior, abusing alcohol and pain pills and carrying a gun.
"I told them he was a walking time bomb," she said.
Hernandez said the sergeant later taunted Marquez about her phone call.
"If I was just a guy off the street, I might have hesitated to shoot," Marquez told The Gazette in the Bent County Correctional Facility, where he is serving a 30-year prison term. "But after Iraq, it was just natural."
The Army trains soldiers to be that way, said Kenneth Eastridge, an infantry specialist serving 10 years for accessory to murder.
"The Army pounds it into your head until it is instinct: Kill everybody, kill everybody," he said. "And you do. Then they just think you can just come home and turn it off."
Both soldiers were wounded, sent back into action and saw friends and officers killed in their first deployment. On numerous occasions, explosions shredded the bodies of civilians, others were slain in sectarian violence - and the unit had to bag the bodies.
"Guys with drill bits in their eyes," Eastridge said. "Guys with nails in their heads."
Last week, the Army released a study of soldiers at Fort Carson that found that the trauma of fierce combat and soldier refusals or obstacles to seeking mental health care may have helped drive some to violence at home. It said more study is needed.
While most unit soldiers coped post-deployment, a handful went on to kill back home in Colorado.
Many returning soldiers did seek counseling.
"We're used to seeing people who are depressed and want to hurt themselves. We're trained to deal with that," said Davida Hoffman, director of the privately operated First Choice Counseling Center in Colorado Springs. "But these soldiers were depressed and saying, ‘I've got this anger, I want to hurt somebody.' We weren't accustomed to that."
At Fort Carson, Eastridge and other soldiers said they lied during an Army screening about their deployment that was designed to detect potential behavioral problems.
Sergeants sometimes refused to let soldiers get PTSD help or taunted them, said Andrew Pogany, a former Fort Carson special forces sergeant who investigates complaints for the advocacy group Veterans for America.
Soldier John Needham described a number of alleged crimes in a December 2007 letter to the Inspector General's Office of Fort Carson. In the letter, obtained by The Gazette, Needham said that a sergeant shot a boy riding a bicycle down the street for no reason.
Another sergeant shot a man in the head while questioning him, lashed the man's body to his Humvee and drove around the neighborhood. Needham also claimed sergeants removed victims' brains.
The Army's criminal investigation division interviewed unit soldiers and said it couldn't substantiate the allegations.
The Army has declared soldiers' mental health a top priority.
"When we see a problem, we try to identify it and really learn what we can do about it. That is what we are trying to do here," said Maj. Gen. Mark Graham, Fort Carson's commander. "There is a culture and a stigma that needs to change."
Fort Carson officers are trained to help troops showing stress signs, and the base has doubled its number of behavioral-health counselors. Soldiers seeing an Army doctor for any reason undergo a mental health evaluation.
- Posted in
49 Comments so far
Show AllSo we've created who knows how many psychopathic killers and then brought them home and turned them loose.
The military could do psychological screening to keep the unstable ones out but they don't. So now we have walking time bombs in our midst.
War destroys lives in every possible way lives can be destroyed. But the rich get richer and that's all that counts.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
"The military could do psychological screening to keep the unstable ones out but they don't."
By definition, stable people can't join the US military.
Actually stable people can and do join the military. But the training to become a soldier who will shoot at anything that moves when threatened makes you just a little more than unstable when you get out.
I'm reminded about a comic I once read as a kid, it's stuck with me thru the years as the most horrific of thoughts. It was a tale about how to deal with murderers, they removed the brain placed it into a cyborg and the body was used for transplants/medical research. The cyborg was then used by the army to fight a never ending war. The brain was protected enough that destruction of the machine didn't kill the brain...
I guess that depends on how you define "stable".
But voluntarily picking up a gun to fight in any of our wars is not what I'd call stable.
Someone so poor that they have no chance at health care, and no chance to go to college unless they join the us military...
I'm not sure, I joined the Canadian Forces (and got out right quick when my contract was up) and we didn't fight any wars when I was serving. In fact, when I joined, I was dead certain that there was little chance that Canada would be fighting in any wars. (or if there was one it'd be a nuke war between the usa and the ussr, and being in the forces would mean that I'd be one of the lucky sob's who died quickly)
"Someone so poor that they have no chance at health care, and no chance to go to college unless they join the us military... "
BS.
You might as well use the same excuse for gang members or hitmen.
I grew up poor. I did not need to join the US military. I got by.
Money, healthcare, and college do not justify over 1,000,000 dead Iraqis.
War has only one justifiable rational and that's self defense.
Our wars have not met that requirement since 1812 or the Civil War.
And then let's not forget all those who join the military for reasons other than poverty. You know, true believers, like Charles Graner.
I'll add that there's a HUGE difference between the Canadian military and the US military.
I actually agree with everything you wrote. But not all of the people who joined the poverty draft were/are like Charles Graner, some of them were decent folk.
For all we know, Graner was "decent" and just horribly confused. "Decent" is such a relative thing. I don't care to comment of whether people in general are "good" people or "bad" people. For example, imagine the brainwashing the Bush children must have endured. Most "bad behavior" has a clear causation. But I think it's appropriate to condemn the action of serving the US military. A person's actions are something they can (hopefully) change.
That being said, if people break free of the indoctrination that led them to the military in the first lace, they might turn out to be the next Howard Zinn or Kurt Vonnegut.
I don't mean to sound like those in the military are worthless human beings (everyone has equal worth in my view). They have just made some devastatingly bad choices. I'm willing to forgive anyone, but only after they admit what they've done is wrong. In fact, soldiers who turn against the war tend to make some of the most convincing peace advocates.
When you train kids to kill people and act all macho, and then those kids see what high explosive does to the human carapace (it turns us into red snot) and what high velocity bullets do, it should not surprise you that they get a little out of hand. Boys will be boys, as the Bushites would excuse it. Too bad those innocent Iraqis got in the way, eh.
The U.S. sends hardened kids to massacre and exploit littler, browner people. What do we expect?
"as the Bushites would excuse it."
Ahem! You mean, "as the Bushites and Obamaists would excuse it."
I hope the citizens of Colorado are happy now. They got what they wanted when they voted for Bush.
And Obama...
Remember him?
I hope the citizens of Colorado are happy now. They got what they wanted when they voted for Bush.
OK, so since Bush won 52% to 47% here, that means what exactly now?
What do you expect when sociopaths are in charge modeling utter corruption and bloodthirstiness? The trickle-down theory doesn't work in economics but it sure does work in terms of behavior.
The way the U.S. citizens are just accepting these wars which go on and on, is partially a result of the successful U.S. block out of the media.
There are few images of the horror of actual dead and maimed people.
Most humans are born with a natural aversion to killing. The military is conditioning soldiers to overcome this aversion.
Is this the society we want to live in?
Actually, I thought the Democracy Now story on this had it more correctly. A soldier was quoted as saying in effect:
"First they teach you to kill, kill, kill, then they send you to a place like Iraq for repeated and extended tours where you are expected to kill, kill, kill, then finally you are sent back home where you are suppossed to go back to being normal and it isn't that easy to make that transition."
The very acts of waging war and the training to do so are a kind of socially sanctioned insanity--until "the game" keeps on going off the "field of play".
Poet
Some people in the military need the instruction "kill, kill, kill" in order to get over their aversion to killing. For others, their own personal urge to "kill, kill, kill" is why they joined in the first place.
We have sown the wind. Now we are reaping the whirlwind.
Beware the sorrows of empire. They are many and last for decades in the ruined lives, minds, emotions of the perpetrators and their countless victims. The US ruling elites care nothing for the lives and sanity of either side, seeking only to clear the way to profits and power. They have already ensconsced themselves in protected lairs, equivalent to the ruling king's castles of old and from there they direct a global regime of pillage, murder, torture and mayhem. When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn? When will sufficient numbers of we the people ever learn and resist, rebel, revolt and end the rule of the criminal oligarchs?
Ray Berthiaume
I don't see how any true Christian can join the military.
This true atheist joined the military 43 years ago. I remember the "kill, kill, kill" part of basic training. I thought, "This is crazy and disgusting!" I prolly wouldnadone well in combat.
one old atheist never met a "true" christian. Jesus says sell all you have and give to the poor and that those who don't clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned, feed the hungry and tend to the sick go to hell. When I see a christian do those things, I'll think it's something othere than a blowhard hypocrite and liar.
Ray Berthiaume
I don't see how any true Christian can join the military.
Ray Berthiaume
I don't see how any true Christian can join the military.
There are 2 kinds of Christians. The first kind live their lives according to that subversive credo: WWJD (what would Jesus do). The others believe that all they have to do is say "Jesus Christ is my Savior" and they will go to heaven, no matter what sins they commit. I call the latter Anti-Christians, or true Satanists.
Reminds me of a few of the news reports I heard as a child where returning Viet Nam vets were dumped back onto American streets after prolonged periods of killing and seeing others being killed. Many could not adjust to life back in the states it often ended up with the mentally tortured and armed vet barricading himself inside his home until the police came and shot him. Then of cousre we hailed the "brave" police for putting down the dangerous criminal like a mad dog. Now out vet is dead and would have simply gone to jail had he refused to fight and kill in the first place. Just more history to repeat itself for the American people. I feel that this will be mutitudes worse than returning Nam vets as soldiers fighting the current glorious wars for American empire have been subject to these horrors for prolonged and repeated tours. Coming to your neighborhood sooner than you think.
Coming to your neighborhood sooner that you think, not just as a damaged returning vet we all expect to deal with, but as a preferentially hired cop, "to protect and serve the public" like a Crowley, Mr. Gates' friendly officer. Or redeployed from some other division to NORTHCOM, in violation of Posse Comitatus. And I worry that's if we're lucky, being hired puts them in authority but keeps them occupied. How long is it going to take for these folks to lash out if they don't get themselves tied up for 9 or 10 hours a day with the status building distraction of a job?
It's all by design just as Naomi Klein and others have outlined. To paraphase NativeSon on other threads,"good luck, America, we'll need it."
A page posted at Uruknet yesterday for this AP article included copies of and links to two of the Gazette.com articles, parts 1 and 2 of "Casualties of War", by Dave Philipps, July 24th. These are not very long, but considerably longer than the AP article, and they include a video for a soldier who I guess is one of those who committed these crimes or another who's threatened to commit some serious crimes.
I haven't yet viewed the video, but there's a warning provided for it saying that there's some ... serious language content, say. The initial image, which is the same for the embedded videos in both parts of the article, which tells me that it's likely the very same video, is for an interview with an evidently convicted soldier. I haven't viewed it yet and haven't read this two-part article, either, but will get around to it and am only posting the links for readers who would like to have them.
"Casualties of War, Part I: The hell of war comes home",
http://www.gazette.com/articles/iframe-59065-eastridge-audio.html
Part II is for "Warning signs".
http://www.gazette.com/articles/html-59091-http-gazette.html
Can we say that the rogue US government and its ruling "elites" making wars ... of aggression and sending troops to brutal, genocidal, ... wars destroys soldiers? I think we can say that quite realistically; for [many] soldiers. Suicides, becoming violent once back home, severe health problems due to the toxic pollution caused by US, UK, ... wars, etc. Yah, we can say it destroys many soldiers, citizens who become soldiers; most of them unwittingly doing this based on LIES.
Rogue? No. ROGUE government (and its ruling "elites")! ROGUE as [hell].
Actually, in starting to view the video I learned that it's not a video; but it is an audio recording of "Eastridge interview", parts 1 and 2. It's accompanied with the photo. of an evidently convicted soldier though.
I just listened to the first clip of the "Eastridge Interviews" and it's unfortunate, for myself anyway, because the sound, voice communication is not clear enough to be able to understand much of what's said.
The host also strikes me as a kiddy sort of clown .... I'm editing out this initial text, for listening to the second clip and being able to hear, understand the host's words more clearly, he seems okay; although I'm at the start of the second clip, presently.
And I also just finished reading part 1 of the Gazette.com article, which seems to bear some U.S. war propaganda of deceit; f.e., when claiming or repeating claims of how U.S. forces operating anywhere in Iraq, regardless of whether it was the worst areas of fighting, or not, was justified or right. The whole damn war has been criminal all along and will continue to be that way until the US withdraws and withdraws its puppet regime in Baghdad; and more.
I guess, however, that those parts of the article are simply saying what the US Army and some Iraq War veteran soldiers say and think, so the war propaganda aspects of the piece can't be blamed on the Gazette.com writer; I guess, think (?).
wordpress posted an edit and its original
Perpetuation of propaganda disguised as direct reporting is still no excuse. Frame is everything, especially now as critical thinking skills have been engineered out of schools with NCLB. I found myself actually starting to yell at the tv set last night, when rationality kicked in and I picked up the phone to dial the complaint number for PBS. I've not liked some of their "Worldfocus" news before but to blame obviously starving people who are forced to eat from garbage heaps night after night IN IRAQ, saying it was "due to poverty AND IGNORANCE"...GRRRRRR.
That line was in there 5 or 6 times. The frame of the report " look at those silly brown people, don't they know eating in garbage heaps, drinking out of old Pepsi cans is going to make them and their children ill. Some of them know and they do it anyway, imagine that." If you just landed from RedState you'd be shaking your head in affirmation, 'Yup, George had it right, we had to go in there to save them from themselves'
After I told the PBS message machine the specific story which had earned my wrath and why, I also informed them that they had "managed to get $35.00 out of me 10 years ago but until they cleaned house from those years and got real news feeds back, they wouldn't be getting a nickel. That the internet and local word of mouth was going to be what I relied on for my take of the world."
Thirty years ago, if you had told me I would be relying on the AMISH for news in 2009, I would have told you,"put down the water pipe". Live and learn.
Go to Iraq and kill women and children and you're a hero, but you come home and shoot one cop...
If the US Army wanted to apply the same standards of justice to this brigade that it does toward Iraqis and Afghans, it would need to send the brigade back to the war zone and call a few air and/or artillery strikes.
But, the Army (and Navy, AF, Marine) brass goes on with the fiction this makes us all safer in the US.
The US is going to git "Blow Back" an its comin to a town near you when "Johny comes marching Home".
The American Heroes and mercenary thugs who have been involved in all that killing mayhem in Iraq are coming home back to the good olde USA.
The ones who are not crippled will be joining the Police and security companies or just going homeless so better behave yourselves folks they will be protecting us at home after their wonderful efforts at protecting us in Iraq.
While doing so might not mean a veteran of this Iraq War is homeless he or she could alternatively join up with IVAW, instead of trying to become a member of a police force or "security" cies.
Let's hope that most join up with IVAW.
"Soldiers from an Army unit that had 10 infantrymen accused of murder, attempted murder or manslaughter after returning to civilian life described a breakdown in discipline during their Iraq deployment in which troops murdered civilians"
A 'breakdown in discipline' or a direct result of discipline?
or following orders, or trying to keep up with the latest revision of the "rules of engagement"--hey, it's all good until you "mess up" and then it is your fault.
Poet
Following orders is to follow discipline, just that in this case the orders were criminal, so it's a very bad form of discipline, to follow such orders.
Saint-Just wrote, "A 'breakdown in discipline' or a direct result of discipline?"
Both. It's breakdown, because, f.e., the first oath of all U.S. military members is to adhere to, uphold, and defend the U.S. Constitution, and this whole war on Iraq has been against the Constitution, wholly so. However, it's also discipline, because the soldiers who followed criminal orders were ordered to do so and surely dumbed down into believing that they had to obey their military "superiors", regardless of how inferior they really are. For example; say.
We are in error to blame the young people who joined the army for how going to war effected their personalities and sanity. They joined because there are no jobs for them at home. All the jobs have been 'out sourced' to places that have lower wages. With no job and little chance for higher education, the kids join the army in hopes of getting a chance to go to college and get training that will allow them to get a good job----but---get out of college, hang your degree on the wall and hope you can say "Do you want fries with your burger?" nicely enough to keep the part time minimum wage job.
The anger of the people coming home after the horrors of war are only a small part of the masses of us who are losing our jobs and our homes. Our savings are gone, our pensions are gone and so is our health care. There are a lot of us who are mentally unstable. We are told it is their own fault. The ecomomy is improving!! Be happy and cheerful! Here, take these prescription drugs, or if you can't afford a shrink just drink away your pain.
I am working hard to try and get people active to try and get our Representatives to listen to us. It's worth a try and we must all do it...............but, the corruption is so deeply installed that it may be too late. We gotta get over the fiction of the lesser of two evils. Both corporate parties are for helping the rich get richer. They get paid to do that.
Our elected officials have sold out for nice perks and prestige. We must get out in the streets don't bother getting a permit to march nicely to a park on a weekend afternoon. We need to be loud and angry and bother the businesses. No business as usual! We need to stand together and make the top 1% to get scared. Very frightened.
We have been too complacent. Turn off that damn picture box in your home. Get out and live your life. We need to talk to one another and figure out how to share the wealth of this nation and live in peace with all the people of the earth.
GREAT POST, wantrealdemocracy. I hope by putting it last it will be the biggest part of your post that people take away.
Get out and Live your life.
I've been guilty too, but for the last 7 1/2 years saw what my complacency linked to millions of others was doing. Some people look at the 7 1/2 years number and say "Ah yes, GWB was recently installed then, was he not?"
True that but more shockingly, I rediscovered an inherited "Household Encyclpedia" from 1946. It had all these great tips on cleaning and money saving steps and practical childrearing using words (not spanking)and everything. It included etiquette, the different ways one socialized at home, in associations, extended family. Included: how to pitch a new roof, rules for family games, advice on how to resolve disputes with neighbors, vegetable gardening. etc. The eye opener was the role of TV then. TELEVISION was discussed in this 1946 marvel. They were not against tv viewing but noted its mesmerizing effects, especially on children. Their advice, view as a family with limits, on nights that weren't booked with church, neighborhood obligations, etc. They even suggested that if one was unexpectedly at loose ends, try to strike up conversation as an alternative to "seeing what is on" first. Great advice.
Now my family has a larger garden, I ran for school board, my husband ran for Common Council, my 4 children play in 7 bands besides the ones at school,the kids all work and have at least B-/C+ GPA's( one valedictorian;-) we work on our own cars more, remodeled our home faster. We have true neighbors, the neighborhood has new associations like the Pond Association and a rejuvenated Library Association. Not just because we joined but because our lives are contagious. When I started going to school board meetings,a couple of friends got curious. One dropped out... to join the Scrapbooking Club! When my kids' bands got word of mouth, so did "playing music" as a pass time. When my hubby and I work on local issues, we stress the common values that led us to settle in our little rural city to raise our kids. I frequently invoke the old Common Council minutes, why reinvent the wheel, if you already have round ones?
By forging these connections in our leisure, these bonds were there in our distress. What distress? 4 different involuntary unemployments in 6 years, 1 major hospitalization and several lesser ones, a murder victim in our family, and now an unintended but beloved (1st grandbaby) pregnancy due in Nov.
GO OUT and LIVE YOUR LIFE>
Are these American soldiers home from Iraq now in Colorado Springs ? ? ?
"Iraqi taxi drivers got shot for no reason, and others were dropped off bridges after interrogations, said Marcus Mifflin, who was eventually discharged with post traumatic stress
In the letter, obtained by The Gazette, Needham said that a sergeant shot a boy riding a bicycle down the street for no reason.
Another sergeant shot a man in the head while questioning him, lashed the man's body to his Humvee and drove around the neighborhood. Needham also claimed sergeants removed victims' brains".
_________________________________________________
And these psychos may now be in your town or city and as after Vietnam expect praise for protecting the US from its enemies.
"And these psychos may now be in your town or city and as after Vietnam expect praise for protecting the US from its enemies."
Those who haven't yet been arrested for violent crimes in the U.S. might be on the streets, in the neighbourhoods, ... of the USA, but surely not those who've been arrested, who I expect to be in detention somewhere in the U.S
The two-part Gazette.com article I provided links for might have this sort of precise information. I'm just starting to read part 1 now.
Actually, that Gazette.com article does have some of the information about some Iraq War vets who've committed crimes in the U.S. being jailed, but while I have only read Part I of the article, so far, it leaves me with the impression that there's plenty being withheld by the US Army and therefore White House, since "the buck stops at (or with) the President" and the Administration "team".
Part I says that the U.S. Army has said that it doesn't keep records older than two years old, which is a scary reality; but I think we probably can also consider this in the above respect. The U.S. Army and therefore the White House are rather clearly not living up to their social obligations in the U.S. In Iraq, it's hellishly clear that they're not living up to their social and legal obligations; they've only been acting wholly against these obligations ever since ... even before the war was officially launched. But they clearly are also endangering society in the U.S.
The article definitely provides for the realisation that the Army is very, extremely criminal. Its spokes persons pretend that the Army does not know this that and the other things that the Army should and surely does know about, but is working to keep critical things we should know about covered up.
It's sad to see how these U.S. soldiers have no or else virtually no remorse at all for what they did in Iraq, and that they are not bright enough to realise that there's nothing honourable in what they did, not being able to realise that the whole damn war has been thoroughly criminal all along and continues to be criminal on the parts of both the U.S. and its puppet regime in Iraq.
If they can't realise the latter, then it's not surprising that they wouldn't have remorse, or that they'd have very little of it. BUT the U.S. military members first oath is to the Constitution and these soldiers don't realise this, while the US Army superiors surely know that they're acting un-constitutionally and, therefore, as actual enemies of the USA.
We need not look further for the enemies of the USA. They're all from within.
Anyway, it seems that many soldiers are likely deserving of being placed in secure detention, but not as punishment. Those who are guilty of violent crimes should be in detention for this reason, as well as mental health, rehabilitation; while others, besides those with enough conscience and will to join IVAW, f.e., could be placed in detention for mental health care for ... a couple or few years, say. They could then be released if they've been capable of living reasonably enough during these years.
Murderers, even if they're Iraq War vets, definitely should not be released after only two years in prison, but one or more of the soldiers the Gazette.com article tells readers about has received such dangerously light time, detention.
Well, maybe if enough of such violent crimes continue to occur in the U.S. and the public becomes adequately aware of this, then maybe Americans will muster enough moral strength to focus on demanding full stop to these GWoT wars and to maintain this focus with energy until the government does as it must do.
In weightlifting there's the clown expression of, "No pain, no gain", which is moronic in physical training, for pain is then a sign of excess stress and that maintaining it or exceeding it, going further will likely cause injury. Socially, however, some people are dumb enough to need very serious pain before they wake and grow up.
Part I of the "Casualties of War" article I posted links for in ... I believe my first post in this page refers to Pat Dollard and his documentary, or that he is a documentary filmmaker, so I did a Web search to see what this would turn up for information about a documentary (the title not being specified in the article) on this war in Iraq, U.S. soldier units operating there, and found it.
The official Web site for the documentary, "Young Americans" is the following one.
http://patdollard.com
There are also video clips at Youtube for this documentary and the clip found with the Google search is the following one, while doing a search of Youtube turns up plenty of links for additional clips.
"Pat Dollard - Young Americans Intro" (4:34), Nov 11, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGeWfmqE2HY
Executive producers apparently include Tony and Ridley Scott, according to the text with this above Youtube clip.
QUOTE:
While still running a management company, representing Soderbergh and helping to service Soderbergh and George Clooney's production company at Warner Brothers' (Section 8 Films), Dollard decided to do a side project for a few weeks in the three worst combat zones in Iraq: Fallujah, The Triangle of Death, and Ramadi. The project began as a 2-4 week quickie documentary, but eventually grew to include a 7-month stay in Iraq with a Marine unit and over 200 hours of footage. The resulting documentary, Young Americans, is not yet finished, but nearly an hour of footage has been released on the Internet and clips have been shown on television. According to the November 17, 2007 issue of the Online magazine Politico, "Young Americans" has been acquired by Showtime as an 8 part documentary/reality series, and will begin airing in April, 2008.
According to other press reports, directors Tony and Ridley Scott have come aboard as the series' Executive Producers.
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Dollard
END QUOTE
I haven't viewed the documentary and the above Wikipedia page on him says that he was "a strong proponent of both the Bush administration and the Iraq war", so I don't know what to expect of the film; however, we might be surprised to find that it reveals enough of the truth about U.S. infantry operations in Iraq, maybe.
However, I just viewed the above short Youtube clip and if the whole documentary is much like this above clip, then this is surely not going to be a film MANY people will want to view. I agree with the soldiers' expressed views regarding how if and when they return to the U.S., go to a party, some people there inquire about them having served as soldiers in the Iraq War and say how they find it cool, how they'd love to have done this, been there, that they'd do bla bla bla badness too; well, the soldiers referring to that kind of attitude have an understandable perspective, which is of telling such other Americans "F*ck You!", with full emphasis. However, while that's understandable, the clip also tells me to expect that this is a documentary showing a lot of extreme violence, and letting us know that many of the soldiers in this film can probably thought of as cold-blooded murderers, idiots who can't question orders, following orders blindly and then once in the war zone, breaking every law they're supposed to uphold and defend. A LOT of violence, I expect to appear in this film. The short clip, alone, already shows what I consider to be real, cold, dark, ... war crimes happening as if being viewed live.
Nonetheless, since I've never seen this film mentioned before I may as well mention it now. If people respond to this post, then maybe they'll have seen the film and be able to provide some useful information or views about it.
Actually, adding this bit after the initial post, the Wikipedia page says the following about Pat Dollard.
QUOTE:
Perspective on the Iraq War
From Dollard's Maxim article "Angel of Death" ([12]):
"I could give two f***s about WMDs. There were much more important reasons to topple Saddam—terrorism being one of them. The root causes of terrorism are the lack of capitalism, the lack of democracy, and the lack of modern education. What has stood in the way of those things has primarily been the regimes of Iraq, Iran, and Syria. We just got one of them out of the way."
END QUOTE
He's clearly someone in dire need of [real] education, certainly not someone to look to for philosophical or social views or morals. But I'll leave this posted nevertheless; it might generate some useful responses or discussion. And it's not bad to know who the warmongering fools or fool warmongerers are.
He's in dire need of real education, but he got something right.
In the article, "Casualties of War", by Dave Philipps for the Gazette.com, the article referred to in the AP article of this CD page and linked in my first or second post in this CD page, it says the following about Pat Dollard's view on a particular battle front in Iraq.
QUOTE:
...
Satan’s throne
The violence started to take root in Iraq’s Sunni Triangle, where the brigade landed in September 2004.
Ramadi, where Marquez landed, had a population the size of Colorado Springs but had no dependable electricity, let alone law and order. Sewage ran in rubble-choked streets. The temperature sometimes rose to 120 degrees.
And when roadside bombs blew civilians to bits, soldiers said, packs of feral dogs fought over the scraps.
Pat Dollard, a documentary filmmaker embedded in the area at the time, wrote that it looked like “Satan had punched a hole in the Earth’s surface, plopped down his throne, and set up shop.”
Marquez was assigned to hunt terrorists in the city. ...
END QUOTE
The reason for making this quote is because of Dollard's reference to Satan. Just before the war was officially launched, Saddam Hussein said that launching this war on Iraq would be like opening the Gates of Hell over Iraq, which I fully agreed with. I had posted several times in discussion forums that the Bush administration had no real intention of bring peace, democracy, justice, ... to Iraq for Iraqis, or to anywhere else for anyone else, but that the reality of this war as that it was going to bring HELL to Iraq. Well, Saddam Hussein, myself, and many millions of other people were opposed to the launching of this war that we all knew to be wholly unjustifiable and many of us already knew or else seriously discerned to be based on LIES. But even pro-Bush administration and pro-Iraq War filmmaker Pat Dollard came to describe the war or at least a very serious part of it as being of Hell's sort of making.
He might not have meant that the U.S. was causing this "throne" establishment in Iraq, may have been thinking it was Saddam Hussein's fault, but nevertheless got the Hell's making part right.
And this is the ugly truth, the one that the corporate war machine tries so hard to hide. The one that Americans try so hard to ignore so they don't have to feel guilty or accountable. This is what the world denies. Here's America at its best!
Look on Americans! This is you! Your children, your brothers, your husbands! Rejoice in what you have created, funded and supported! Take pride in what your tax dollars have accomplished! And look away and tell yourself that it's not your problem or that they deserved it because after all, they're Arabs and 'the enemy' - Go ahead, live with yourselves!
Oh they know, why do you think there are so many antidepessants, anti anxiety meds prescribed? It is impossible to stuff down the collective guilt enough to stop feeling the effects. Better to just stop the behaviors that lead to the self- anger.
The problem with that idea is...I'm not sure how to get the behaviors stopped. Voting hasn't done it, protesting might if it were more massive, a Jen-r-l sTeee-ryke might especially combined with discretionary spending boycott and essentials purchases delayed by one or more days. I'm angry and bitter too,and want to hold myself and others accountable. But direct the accountability in a way that makes the madness stop. I don't want to give OBaMA "a chance", the new Congress and the office of the President need to jump and perform now, sadly because of the opportunity costs of especially GWB and prior Congresses.
I don't see it happening yet, 6+ months in, so I and others have pretty well written off the next 1 1/2 years (3 1/2-Obama) on a national level, to focus on the state and local levels now. It's piecemeal, I agree, but it seems to be the only levels of success progressives are enjoying right now. Look at the victory for local water rights in Maine this week. If only Mountain top removal could be addressed the same way.
You're right to call it the CORPORATE war machine. I hate war as much as anyone, but I think the focus Nationally needs to be on rescinding the myth of "corporate personhood." A person without a conscience is a terrible thing to build. Right now Psycho/Socio -pathological beings, corporations, are built into the system. It might be time to consider a new system instead of patching up the old one. That might be the only way to rid the world of this man-made hell, to find USA dissolved.
I used to think I'd mourn that passing, but now I know it was a myth anyway. Like how I got over finding out about Santa Claus.
Maybe those doggies should pay a visit to their old commanderscum-in-chief at his two multimillion dollar homes in the Dallas suburb and smoke him and his deucebag wife! Get some (Ace of Clubs)...