Subscribe to Common Dreams News Updates
Most Popular This Week
Popular content
Today's Top News
Bush Administration Torture Policy May Face Probe From A.G. Holder
Attorney General Eric Holder is leaning toward launching a probe into the Bush administration's torture policies, it was reported Saturday.
US Attorney General Eric Holder (pictured on July9) is mulling appointing a criminal prosecutor to probe if CIA personnel tortured terrorism suspects after the September 11, 2001 attacks, according to The Washington Post.
(AFP/Getty Images/File/Chris Mcgrath) Sources told Newsweek that Holder, after months of careful consideration, appears likely to appoint an independent prosecutor to investigate whether top Bush lawyers twisted the law in authorizing torture techniques.
The official decision could come in a matter of weeks. If Holder opts to investigate, it will almost certainly increase tensions in a White House that has insisted it wants to focus on the future.
"I hope that whatever decision I make would not have a negative impact on the President's agenda," Holder told Newsweek. "But that can't be a part of my decision."
The development comes three months after it was revealed 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in March 2003. After Holder read through the reports, he reportedly told a colleague it "turned my stomach."
53 Comments so far
Show AllI hope Holder has the courage to go after the criminals in the government who were and are torturing people in our name. It certainly would be different than the spineless Barack Obama, who seems to have forgotten what he told us in campaign speeches prior to the election.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I recall, even during the campaign he was quite vague on that matter. I don't remember him having promised anything concrete about it. Instead, he just repeated that 'look forward' crap.
I could be wrong and/or I only saw what I wanted to see, but I recall him being quite specific about transparency in government, ending the wars and following the rule of law.
What I got after the election aint what I voted for. I've come to believe that Obama is simply another con artist, much smoother than W Bush, but not much different than Bill Clinton.
He just says whatever he thinks will get him elected.
That, you're absolutely right.
With these promises, he was saying what the people wanted to hear: that he wasn't Bush.
It's understandable that many are disappointed with him, I am a little too, but for my part, I keep in mind that the other choice back then was McCain/Palin.
So? You ended up with McCain/Palin anyway. Worse still, Obama's able to get away with much worse than McCain would've, don't celebrate sh*t.
I do not disagree with you. One can hardly expect real change when on election day he is given the choice between just two parties that are practically one and the same (except maybe with the slight differences that the Repubs are more insane and the Dems are spineless cowards). Still I can't help but think that Obama was the lesser of two evils, although one had to be a fool to have high expectations for him, to believe that he would make every progressives' dreams come true.
It should be an open-and-shut case. Cheney and Rummy ordered it, Bush signed off on it, Addington, Yoo and Gonzales wrote the legal wrapper, Powell, Rice, Myers and Tenet implimented it, the victims (the ones that survived) are talking, the memos are leaking, one good investigator with clearance could wrap this up in a week.
Cheney bragged about authorizing torture on Tv! How hard can it be to indict that?
As posted elsewhere on CD...
It is sad to see what we as a country and collectively as a people have become.
Torture,secrecy,and the shame of brutality has become the norm. Obama ignores, by looking into the future, the trashing of the rule of law because as a senator he never stood up against such policies. His actions now and then reveal the great flaws in him that he would not wish to reveal because it would illuminate the emptiness of hope and change.
Legal memos supporting torture are debased in themselves but they were only ignorant and poor advise. We the people and the rest of the world know however that our past president and his morally challenged administration created and implemented torture policies and in their shame did so in secrecy.
Clear enough GW Bush in communication with his God was the decider.It was his policy that he ordered and carried out that has dragged what honor our country had through the mud.
The spirit of justice is blindfolded so that the law can not see those with power and those without. She can not tell the rich from the poor or the color of one's skin. Without that blindfold the rule of law stumbles, falls and no longer exists.
The patriotic warrior becomes the mercenary. The banker thief becomes to big to fail and is rewarded. Humans in business suits hide in corporations and becomes the murderer of people and destroyer of the earth.
There can be no hope for a future without change of our past.
alas, friend, the past cannot be changed.
All this "leaning" means nothing. What holds them up from taking steps beyond "leaning" is the fact that they are leaning against the pallets of money supplied by their true masters.
Yea he's 'leaning.' Just like I'm 'leaning' toward cashing that $175,000 stimulus check Goldman Sacks authorized the Treasury to send.
Well.
Nice to see the Attorney General of the United States "leaning toward" the U.S. Constitution.
Such a tilt, in the 21st Century, has become an extremely radical position -- which the White House, the corporatist majority in con gress and the Assimilated Press will now shriek to us in no uncertain terms. I'd love to be wrong, but this has the feel of a doomed venture.
Do we actually have to hear Bush and Cheney say "HERE WE ARE.....WE DID IT....WE TORTURED AND ENGAGED IN ALL KINDS OF ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES....COME GET US IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS!!!" to get the Attorney General Holder to investigate and file charges????? Jesus!!!
What a bunch of WIMPS the Democrats are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If ever there was a time to make a call, send an e-mail or send a letter, now is the time.
Here is the AG's contact info:
(from http://www.usdoj.
gov/contact-us.
html):
Office of the Attorney General - 202-353-1555
e-mail: AskDOJ@usdoj.gov
Correspondence to the Department, including the Attorney General, may be sent to:
U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530-0001
Below is the letter I wrote. Below that is a link to the full text of the 1996 War Crimes Act.
>>Dear Attorney General Holder,
You have said that waterboarding is torture. You took an oath to uphold the law in this country, saying "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"
You know that torture is forbidden under US law, including the War Crimes Act of 1996, and under the Convention Against Torture and Geneva Conventions.
Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney have admitted to ordering the waterboarding of prisoners.
Now you are said to be considering a special independent prosecutor to investigate the admissions of Bush administration officials.
I hope you do.
The establishment of the rule of law in our country requires it. Your oath necessitates it. Justice demands it. Please, therefore, do it!
Sincerely,>>
War Crimes Act link (split to get by CD filters which, for some reason, won't allow posting links):
www2.uakron.
edu/low/War%20Crimes
%20Act%20of%201996.doc
Nothing's going to ever to come out of this, save this post. No serious investigations, no arrests, no prosecutions.
Democrats were in on torture from the beginning, Pelosi, Reid, etc. Holder is just putting on political theater (written and directed by Bush and Cheney themselves) to keep the idiots on Democratic Underground (IQ = zero) happy. Lesser Evilists and Dem Kool-Aid Drinkers are very easy to fool.
Agreed. This is just political song and dance/smoke and mirrors. Operating the global US military resource grab empire by any means necessary is the first and last order of business for the Dims and Repugs as agents of the ruling elites. It is minorly interesting that Holder and the big O now feel it is necessary to offer a few crumbs of distraction of "leaning toward".
True Obusha.
-NOTHING IS GOING TO EVER HAPPEN TO BUSH & CO. PERIOD.
Obama already said he is looking to the future. This is a classic piece of "news" specifically designed for sap consumption. Millions of barely informed sheeple will read the headline and believe that Obama is actually going to uphold the constitution. It's not like we haven't read this articles before saying the Democrats MAY impeach Bush.
This is about SAVING FACE and kicking a can further down the road in order to appear like they are really considering something that will NEVER HAPPEN IN A MILLION YEARS.
The next stage will be the hand-wringing stage in which they will claim the trials would be too divisive and what's called for at this critical time is: UNITY.
Remember Obama said no Red States and no Blue States. Just one big, happy, corrupt, corporate family state.
Touche. This is just a little bit of theater to appease the brie eating, Volvo driving, Jim Lehrer watching liberals, who will now all cry in unison, "Ah, see, the system WORKS! There will be accountability after all." But there won't be. The Mafia dons who run the system will make sure that the real perpetrators face no serious consequences. At most some lower level functionary will be reprimanded or sent to some country-club "prison" for wealthy operatives, the Dems will engage in the usual hand wringing, and the corrupt decrepit corporate horror show will continue on . . .
Holder needs to get on this and start cleaning his own shop by prosecuting former DOJ lawyers who wrote memos that advocated breaking US and international law. Then lets see where that leads.
Cheney and Rummy are not young men.
>War Crimes Act link (split to get by CD filters which, for some reason, won't allow posting links):
www2.uakron.
edu/low/War%20Crimes
%20Act%20of%201996.doc
You're right, but if you put it on one line, highlight, copy and paste it, it'll work:
http://www2.uakron.edu/low/War%20Crimes%20Act%20of%201996.doc
>You're right, but if you put it on one line, highlight, copy and paste it, it'll work:
Or better yet, read it here. It's short.
War Crimes Act of 1996 (as amended)
18 U.S.C. § 2441. War crimes
(a) Offense.--Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death.
(b) Circumstances.--The circumstances referred to in subsection (a) are that the person committing such breach or the victim of such war crime is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or a national of the United States (as defined in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act).
(c) Definition.--As used in this section the term ‘war crime’ means any conduct--
(1) defined as a grave breach in any of the international conventions signed at Geneva 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party;
(2) prohibited by Article 23, 25, 27, or 28 of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, signed 18 October 1907;
(3) which constitutes a violation of common Article 3 of the international conventions signed at Geneva, 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party and which deals with non- international armed conflict; or
(4) of a person who, in relation to an armed conflict and contrary to the provisions of the Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Devices as amended at Geneva on 3 May 1996 (Protocol II as amended on 3 May 1996), when the United States is a party to such Protocol, willfully kills or causes serious injury to civilians.
Thanks for posting, Lyfeform. It is an Important law.
The Holder Investigation will be the equivalent of driving a Model T at the Indianapolis 500. It's not even a question of finishing last; it won't even finish at all.
I done humbly opined months ago that SLOWLY pulling this Sword out and Slowly inserting it into the beating heart of the GOP would be Obama's most prudent move politically. This would insure dramatic subpeonas and prosecutions transpiring squarely in the election cycles.
The GOP would be eviscerated, gutted. Given Obama turning out to be a liar for the corporations, the impact of this is debatable, but not the effect.
See Yoo on the stand on TV, then people go cast ballots?
Carville's wildest dreams come true. And BO's.
What the heck call Holder at 202-353-1555 and ask him how many War Crimes does it take to prosecute a politician?
Pulling the thread on this sweater could lead us down a very rocky path as all the official lies of the Bush years come tumbling out.
I'll be glad to see a special prosecutor going after lies that led to war with as much passion as they went after a presidential blowjob
which proves there is no such thing as a just blowjob.
If this ever gets to court, where will they find a jury that hasn't already reached a verdict?
You either know these mofos are guilty or you're in denial.
Dear vdb
I am afraid that you wildly overestimate the interest of the American people in politics/governance. I am convinced that a true jury can be impaneled from the people that attended the eulogy-party for Jackson. The overwhelming majority of these people were and are still infected with Jacksonitis which destroys important cells of the brain. Hence they do not care a hoot about what ex-Vice Cheney or ex-President Bush did.
Seeing as how the Democratic Congress didn't step up to the plate...
One would think the Obama administration would seek to increase confidence in government. They've tried to pull every feel-good rabbit out of the hat for the past few months but no matter how visually enchanting it is, there's a stink still filling the room.
On the left we have: people freaked out by a decade of McCarthyism x 100 + rampant torture and human rights abrogation.
On the Right: people buying guns because they think the end is near. And they don't even have a serious case of the loves for the Bush legacy any longer.
Normalcy is something this government and Congress should strive for.
We need assurances that protection from abuses extends into the public sphere where technology is concerned--an overview of all communications programs, in study or in use should be undertaken immediately.
We need assurances that war is not an excuse to get all Khmer Rouge on anybody and everybody's asses in light of our failures to properly conduct intelligence operations and warfare.
This should not be a political issue. It's about keeping the country from falling apart.
Does the law have to be obeyed only by "lesser" people and not big shot leaders??
Does the law have to be obeyed only by "lesser" people and not big shot leaders??
The problem with indicting Cheney & Bush is that it will impede important legislation, including health & environmental reforms, as had the Lewinski scandel. This is what the right wing wants, and it will provide them with the oourtunity to blame the current administration for the resulting failures of importatnt legislation.
Hence congress should be barred from involvement in such action, even if this impedes the investigation.
congress was involved in the perpetration and an involvement by them in any investigation is what could impede the truth being acknowledged.
I'm afraid the right wing will get what it wants anyway. Even if there were no distractions by Bush Cartel crimes the right wing will impede any real progress. As it is, the US Government continues to be a right wing engine of empire and tool of Big Money.
The dems are moderate right wing and the repubs are radical right. Anyway you slice it liberalism is not a factor in US Government operations.
The Bush/Cheney crimes will go unpunished and Obama will not revisit his FISA Amendment betrayal. He is a corporatist. That's how he got the job, and that is what he must be in order to keep his job... and keep alive.
Here you have it folks: The Real McCoy, a dyed in the wool DPA tool of the PTB.
Bobforreform: "The problem with indicting Cheney & Bush is that it will impede important legislation, including health & environmental reforms, as had the Lewinski scandel. This is what the right wing wants..."
-Oh hogwash! As if trampling on the Constitution and then crapping all over it was a trivial matter and could be equated with a blowjob and simply forgiven in the name of expediency.
As if these scoundrels, the Replutocrats, would do anything other that what their corporate masters instruct them to do.
So, if we just give them a pass on all their illegality and criminality maybe they'll throw us a crumb? Huh Bobforreform?
they investigated the NIXON white house - and National matters were still taken care of .
so - this is not an excuse, whatever the outcome. the point is:
as some writers said:
"UNLESS AMERICA HONESTLY and FULLY FACES UP to ITS responsibilities for war crimes and other related matters - America will NEVER achieve Catharsis".
one can BURY a corpse all one wants - it is STILL a corpse.
if this is so i hope holder appoints patrick fitzgerald as
special prosecutor. this guy is a human black hole nothing
escapes him gets past or gets by him. if you look at his
work in ill. you will see what i,m talking about. he
has never lost a case either .THIS IS THE MAN FOR THE JOB.
i was relishing the thought of him having cheney on the
stand in the valerie plame case before bush's dogs called him
off.he would have taken that sneer off cheney,s face in a micro
second. folks please pray that he's our guy in this matter.
without shackles he will take them all down.
Nothing escapes Patrick Fitzgerald? Did you forget KKKarl Rove? Cut the bullshit.
A special prosecutor would find evidence not only against Bush The Chimp & Darth Cheney, but also against their partners in crime, their aiders & abettors, their accomplices Obaminable, Peloser, Hitlery etc. Not gonna happen, stop dreaming fool.
this is fundamentally what I also fear is the real problem.
to be sure : a truly honest, professional, ethical prosecutor armed with good intelligence and courage to seek the truth CAN and WILL probably find what needs to be found. there is enough evidence - and if long-ago murders can be traced - if geologists and biologists can talk to us about mosquitoes in the pleistocene era - "retracing steps" is a matter of following them - whereever they lead.
BUT as pointed above by obusha - this whole charade amounts to NOT JUST A FEW - like bush, cheney - even if they were the ones directly involved in the criminalities and executing them..
the whole thing really becomes an indictment of the ENTIRE system : the CIA, NSA, sundry other secret organizations that ALL have been the foundation of US policies which have been aided and abetted and CREATED by the US leaders themselves ..and promoted or maintained, funded, "secreted", etc.
even if the "search" was more narrowly limited to JUST the criminalities during the BUSH administration - the PRESENT CONGRESS and leaders and institutions are PART of the whole thing in one way or another because THEY create and maintain american policies.
it is the Congress that STILL voted for the policies as "reported" to them by the bushies - and their own lack of attention ITSELF will be spotlighted.
already - they are fighting (ex: pelosi against cia) - and pointing fingers at each other. regardless of the extent of individual knowledge by those that claim they were "out of the loop" - this kind of behavior by government leaders could NOT have been possible without SOME tacit "approval" BEHIND the theatre of "dissent". ..........BECAUSE THEY ALL AGREED after 9/11: the PARAMOUNT thing was "SECURITY".
and at least SOME are complicit beyond bush and cheney- one way or another .
since the ENTIRE structure is CORRUPT _ part of the
"CORPORATE.MILITARY/CONGRESSIONAL" as Eisenhower put it -
an investigation into ONE becomes - in all honesty and truthseeking - becomes an investigation into ALL.
bush/cheney and company are just the "tip of the iceberg"....
perhaps the WORST of them - but still ATTACHED to what gave THEIR actions birth and nurture. ..and THAT is the US leadership itself. bush/cheney are merely the OVERT practitioners of "secret" evils - where the evils were ALWAYS practiced LESS overtly before Bush and Cheney.
take JANE HARMAN for example -- one of the Democrat warmongers AND seemingly a war hawk and a supporter of very tough "interrogations"......where does SHE fit into this?
as a writer quipped about other matters - like the US "capitalism" : it's not about JUST goldman-sachs, or those collapsed hedge funds or banks or what-not - it's the ENTIRE financial structure...it's not JUST a few "bad insurers" - it's the STRUCTURE of "private insurance" for health ITSELF that is rotten. it's NOT just "GM motors" - it's the CULTURE of CARS guzzling oil like there's no tomorrow for the sake of a few "highs" on the road...it's not just bad mortgage with people without the money or credit for it - it's about DECLINING wages making people UNABLE to afford what THEY produce and therefore resorting to fanciful , risky , harmful schemes of "ownership".....
"IT's NOT about the FEW rotten apples === it is about the BARREL of ROTTEN apples "
investigate ONE or two rotten apples and one finds most of the apples are ROTTEN. a BARREL-FULL of rotten apples.
Exactly.
isn't the common saying:
"ALL AMERICAN?" or "AS AMERICAN AS APPLE PIE"?
well -- there you go:
list them, just a FEW of uncounted matters that are deemed so "american".......
EMPIRE -
WARS, Corporatism ruling every single thing in life, Destabilizing "uncooperative" countries that happen to make the MISTAKE of thinking they are INDEPENDENT of america in their decisions, MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL,CORPORATECONGRESSIONAL COMPLEX that eisenhower warned about, the CORRUPTION of LANGUAGE that George Orwell warned about that results in such fancy LIES such as :"clear skies initiative" standing for POLLUTING some more, "ENHANCED interrogation" standing for TORTURE , "lawfulness" standing for LEGALIZING CRIMES against humanity, "freedom" standing for IMPERIALISM, "accountability" standing for SECRECY where it's convenient,
"national security" standing for placing ARMY all across the globe , "MORALS" standing for selective Morality, "Prosperity" standing for a policy - domestic and foreign - of "BEGGAR THY NEIGHBOR", "free market" - standing for MONOPOLISTIC practices helped by MANIPULATIVE "hidden hand of the market", ....
these are AMERICAN as APPLE PIE - all the claims, are they not?
welllllllllll.....ALSO as AMERICAN as APPLE PIE with THESE claims is the HYPOCRISY of it all.
it's so rotten it makes one's hair stand contemplating the SHAME EVERY american OUGHT to feel if they really KNEW the FULL brunt of the evils perpretated cleverly based on the MYTH of "american greatness".
obusha July 12th, 2009 9:49 pm...........This is an open forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I see no need to call anyone a fool. Please be respectful to other posters.
the problems i see here are:
1) even if holder manages to exercise what he is empowered to do : appoint someone, say, fitzgerald, who did seem to be "above ground" and true to his profession's ethics - the prosecutor can be charged with investigating only within certain limits...enough to result merely in a "general" statement or finding that "MISTAKES WERE MADE" -- but never criminal "enough".
after all - when fitzgerald investigated some bush doings there were certain strictures which resulted in Karl Rove , etc...getting off since Fitzgerald's "arm" was prevented from reaching them in the truly significant ways.
2) AMERICA NEVER admits "wrongdoing" -- ONLY "mistakes". it is the same old "USA only makes mistakes, but she is NEVER WRONG".
3) investigating to the extent of prosecuting cheney, bush, rice, powell, rumsfeld, wolfowitz as part of the "findings INTO the Bush administration" is already being treated BY OBAMA under whom the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT is empowered, with barely disguised distaste - and who clearly is seen in the democratic party as someone as BIG as REAGAN was to the GOP - where obama's "wishes" will be followed in terms of ANY investigation INTO the affairs of government which MIGHT catch DEMOCRATS along the way is a big NO NO to the ruling party who's "TURN" it is - they wish - to be the PERMANENT MAJORITY - why would they sacrifice that for the sake of JUSTICE or TRUTH?...and of course there JUST might be actions and decisions of the bushies and cheney that OBAMA HIMSELF WISHES to RETAIN . POWER 'never abdicates'. it seeks to ADD more and MORE unto itself.
4) HOLDER is doing this merely to give the APPEARANCE of being ethical in the administration and "independence" but eventually -- "too many concerns" about the CATCH PHRASE of the obamaites and democrats will rule the day : WE MUST MOVE ON...
it is more like an exercise in "we TRIED but there are too many BIGGER PROBLEMS"..and it will be allowed to fade away
i will be surprised if Holder actually goes ALL the way..or the investigator and prosecutor goes all the way or is allowed to -- where the OBVIOUS is finally executed:
prosecution and admission that the leaders of the USA COMMITTED - INDEED , DID CONSPIRE and COMMIT atrocities against Iraq - against prisoners without due process, torture, lies to convince the american people to support corrupt plans, shredding the US constitution . etc...
IS THE USA REALLY GOING to go that far - to ADMIT that IT is - by the nature of its own leadership - become a ROGUE NATION as easily as Nazi Germany, or those that the USA points fingers at?
ACTUALLY INVESTIGATE and PROSECUTE the USA's PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT
concerning PROGRAMS and POLICIES that the USA - under obama and the democrats CONTINUES as a matter of "divine right?"
LAWFULNESS can not possibly COMPETE with LAWLESSNESS in this case....guess which ONE the USA leadership will REALLY "uphold".
i will be VERY surprised if things go as far as Holder SEEMS to promise or suggest.
let us not forget that in ONE thing the USA has been VERY adept at - and increasingly so - it is in THEATRE and ACTING and PRETENSE.
one only has to NOTE:
OBAMA in AFRICA berates the "tyrannies" in africa.....
SHOWING the BUSH and CHENEY and company HAVE BEEN TYRANTS is the LAST thing obama and the USA want the world to see on display through a PROPER , TRUTHFUL, HONEST, NO HOLDS-BARRED investigation and prosecution "no matter where the road leads".
the usa has a "reputation to uphold and regain : JUSTICE" ....u know........it can't be allowed to be DISTURBED by the inconvenience of showing its OWN LEADERS have been among the worst OFFENDERS against Justice and Truth. ...while obama is lecturing the world about THESE things!
TRUTH is HARDLY of any importance here.
Good post. Your first paragraph says it all:
..the prosecutor can be charged with investigating only within certain limits...enough to result merely in a "general" statement or finding that "MISTAKES WERE MADE" -- but never criminal "enough".
-ding!
obusha please get your facts straight. fitzgerald had his hands tied in this.they limited the scope of what he could do.
bush wanted to fire him but couldn't.
Stop making excuses for the man, he's a clown. Millions of dollars of taxpayers money spent investigating the obvious and all Fitzgerald could come up with was a ridiculous lying under oath charge against Libby and a commuted sentence, when treason against the US had been committed.
I'm not here to defend Fitzgerald, but it was Bush (ie, Cheney) who commuted Libby's "sentence".