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TechnoratiGun Sales Soar Amid Fears of Barack Obama Weapons Ban
President Barack Obama may never have fired a gun but he is turning out to be one of the best firearms salesmen in American history.
"I've sold probably four times as much in the last six months as I have in 20 years combined," said Cliff Hunter, owner of Tommy Bronson Sporting Goods in Memphis. "Hand guns and the tactical weapons, they're absolutely off the charts."
Most of his gun sales used to be for hunting, or personal protection in a city riddled with crime. But just before the November election, anxiety that Mr Obama would win and enact a radical programme of curtailing gun rights began drove business right up.
"Obama's a liberal socialist and I think he's proven quickly how extreme he is," he said. "When they get through healthcare, guns are on the table. They're not talking about it but it's going to happen."
The FBI recorded a 49 per cent rise in gun background checks during election week compared to the same week a year earlier.
"Sales have been up 50, 60 per cent sinces Osama got elected," said Jay Hill, owner of the Classic Firearms gun store in Cordova, just outside Memphis, smiling as he deliberately mixed up the name of the US president with the leader of al-Qaeda.
"He speaks with a forked tongue. I don't trust him a bit."
Crime would always mean there was a demand for gun, especially in a state like Tennessee which is in the South and where permits to carry a concealed weapon are available.
This week, a travelling jewellery salesman who was ambushed by four men, at least two of them armed, pulled out his pistol and shot two of them. The other two would-be robbers fled as the wounded men lay moaning on the ground.
"Bingo," said Mr Hill. "They're in critical condition in hospital last time I heard. He had a hand gun and a legal carry permit, so he's back at home having dinner with the kids. Mark one up for the good guy."
While Mr Hill does not believe an outright ban would be attempted, he suspects that a "backdoor" attempt to limit gun ownership might be on the cards.
"What they want to do is limit the amount of handguns you can buy, assault rifles, things like that. The constitution doesn't say you have the right to keep and bear ammunition. A car's no good without gasoline so one way you can get to banning or controlling guns is by attacking the ammo."
Sales of high-end collectible rifles, which cost several thousand dollars, have fallen as the recession has deepened. But the value of military-style rifles such as the AR-15, a variant of the AK-47, had increased by at least 25 per cent.
This has made modern rifles a potentially lucrative investment. Some people are banking on Mr Obama introducing gun control legislation, a move that would lead to a hefty profit as demand soared and people scrambled to beat a ban on purchases.
A week before the election, Mr Hunter bought about 20 Sig .556 calibre rifles. "I'd probably sold six or eight of those in 20 years. I placed one call to an investment firm here in Memphis and within 45 minutes every one had been pre-sold.
"People are afraid they won't be able to get them in the future. Everybody's guessing what they [the Obama administration] are going to do. People are stockpiling ammunition. We're just starting to see more inventory on that but ammo is not slowing down." Americans, he said, would not allow their Second Amendment right to bear arms to be taken away from them.
"The country's divided but this is something that's dear to a true American's heart. It goes way back to the cowboy days when a gun was a man's most prized possession."
Jason Hart, 31, who was buying ammunition from Mr Hill's store, said: "I was raised not to have a gun. My mum told me to stay away from them. But we get four or five murders a day here in Memphis.
"Everybody else has guns, especially since Obama came in and people got afraid and started buying. I've been in a lot of situations where I was able to fight my way out because I'm a martial artist. But everybody has a gun I didn't want to be the only one without one."
149 Comments so far
Show AllIf only Obama were in fact a "liberal socialist." I think at least most of us here can agree on that.
"Except they are perfectly willing to die fighting "terrorists". How strange."
I don't buy that they are. I think they're only willing to fight given they're getting paid for it, have superior weapons, and basically have the odds greatly stacked in their favor. Those are the gung-ho ones. The majority of those actually serving in the military are there because they need the money, the health coverage, the GI Bill, and don't know what else to do with their lives. They're joining the Army for some of the same reasons others join gangs. Security, direction.
You are a creep. Say that to any of their faces.
Is that all you can come up with? Don't know about rocky but for me, I have and some hate it while others actually admit it. I wasn't scared to reveal the truth regardless.
So to be a protestor on the side of progress means that you must be willing and prepared to die, be seriously injured, or go to jail for the rest of your natural life.
I don't see the right-wingers willing to go that far, and at least some of them seem to be awfully willing to pick us off like sitting ducks.
They're the ones in the police and military forces, and are oh-so-willing to do the killing instead of the dying. Except they are perfectly willing to die fighting "terrorists". How strange.
"Americans have elevated fear to a sport. We now have whole industries, and well as moronic shills trolling on blogs, who fan fear then try to pull the wool over our eyes as to the results."
True. But we should be afraid. We're just afraid of the wrong things. We're not afraid of the right things.
Yeah, dem dirty, lousy, sholling, blogging trill morons! Dey ain't pullin no wool over our asses!
Can't help but think that this "scare" was perpetrated by the gun manufacturers and dealers themselves...$$$$$.
My beef with the right-wing "political" gun owners is that they concern themselves too much with "the last line of defense" against crime and not enough with the "first line of defense": economic opportunity, racial equality, anti-gang programs, and the rest of the crime-prevention agenda.
They all "know" that PBO is out to "get their guns" (somehow), butI wonders how many of them could name all the members of their city council?
What is your proof that this is $$$-driven corporate conspiracy? Who started it, when and how? And how come you are so bright to not fall for it but millions of gun-owners did? How come the manufacturerers did this even though they had to hire more people, add shifts and get more machinery and they still can't keep up with demand? How come the anti-gun track record of Obama and the Dems in Congress is suddenly irrelevant now that they can pass any gun bans they want to?
Oh wait - you said that you can't help but think it is so. Then you are admitting you jump to conclusions and are perhaps even prejudiced, facts and reason be damned.
It'd be nice if we can get the rest of your comrades on this site to make the same confession!
Both the Second Amendment and the mythology of gun ownership have roots in the American Revolution. But a closer reading of that story (see "The First American Revolution", by Ray Raphael) shows that the real power that made us a nation was our unity. When the "Day of the Pitchforks" comes, and its coming soon, it will come in the form of first thousands, then millions of outraged activists from every popular movement, joined by millions of people from all walks of life, peacefully acting through civil disobedience to shut the country down, shouting "No Business as Usual!"
From the environmentalists to the local labor activists, from the "single payer" health reform movement to the financial reform movement, the movement to restore the rule of law to the antiwar movement and many others, activists are reaching the same conclusion, that none of the reforms and programs that Obama promised are going to happen, and that despite overwhelming support for them from the American people, the political system has become too corrupt to bring them about through the normal legal channels.
Activists are concluding that the situation is urgent. The economy continues to collapse, state and local governments are failing, savings and pensions have been wiped out, health care is melting down, millions are losing their homes and going hungry, and the misery and anger of the people is soaring. However the failure to enact needed reforms will result not in the election of more and better Democrats in 2010, but to a Republican resurgence. This leads to the perception that it's now or never for the reforms that Obama promised, even if that requires going to jail.
Where does this fit with the gun issue?
The only people I know who have controlling guns as a top priority are ghetto mothers whose children are getting shot and local police who live with fear every time they make a traffic stop or knock on a door. Yet many working people at union and political meetings keep bringing up an imagined threat to gun rights as their top concern, because they have come to see owning guns as the only power that the ordinary people of this country have left. When the "day of the pitchforks" arrives and they see that our real power comes not from guns but from unity, as it always has, perhaps this will shift.
Were the farmers of the Whiskey Rebellion armed with guns? That was pretty much the first "Day of the Pitchforks".
ChrisHorton, no one can predict the future with certainty, and your powers of reason are honed.
But the last sentence of your 1st paragraph contradicts
A. The teachings of Karl Marx, no big deal, but also
B. History.
Never in recorded history have the "haves," given up what they had without a bloody fight. A war. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I mean a class of society voluntarily redistributing it's amassed wealth downward. And by non-voluntarily Marx and I mean it only happens like 1917, or France, or Cuba, or the American Civil War. By violence.
Paradoxically, Peace!
It doesn't look good for getting through this without violence, but that has to be our stand. Our goal must not be to overthrow the government, but to coerce it into restoring the constitution and our rights and liberties. If violence comes it is we who will be defending the Constitution - and the legacies of our revolution and all the other struggles for peoples rights that it encodes - against those who want to trample it in the service of the corporations.
(Incidentally, the title of Ray Raphiel's book that I mentioned, "The First American Revolution", refers to the non-violent revolution of 1774 when the common people of Massachusetts, acting firmly together, ran all the British courts and officials out of all of the colony except for the city of Boston - along with those few Tories who would not renounce their appointments by the puppet government Britain had set up in Massachusetts earlier that year. The libertarians and right-wing patriots who toot about the Revolution stay with the official school-book version that it began at Lexington and Concord in 1775 as an uprising, but in fact what happened there was the successful defense of what amounted to the free Republic of Massachusetts against the first British attempt to reconquer it.)
Where this puts us in relation to the militias - I don't know, but there are a lot of good working-class people in them whose gut commitments and values are the same as or overlap ours, and others who are so driven by racism and jingoism, or so under the control of stalking horses for the great corporations such as the NRA, that we never will. We need to think hard about how to win over the one while neutralizing the other.
As for levels of violence, that matters very much. It could range from some assassinations, incidents of troops firing on crowds or isolated firefights all the way up to a civil war fought with nuclear weapons. Whatever we do, if we can't prevent all violence, we certainly need to keep it at the low end of the spectrum. So no contradiction. Our stand has to be for peace with justice, but
Peace.
Chris Horton,
Your stuff is so good, it deserves to be positioned on a dedicated webpage. These CD comment pages are good but are of a momentary existence whereas a webpage with your talent could display your insights for a longer period of time. I have one, but am slow in putting it up, and have not yet hired talent to run it.
Your thoughts?
Cheers,
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Well put, Chris.
If I need a gun to protect me from gun-toting conservatives, does that make me one?
That's the only reason I would ever consider buying one.
And that's reason enough guys, right there.
Just like the original thirteen colonies, if we want to get free of this horrible government oppression we're experiencing, we're going to have to find some common ground with the right wing crazies. Buy a legal gun. Lock it in a safe and forget about it. Next time a Bubba hillybilly with no teeth and dried grits on his chin starts babbling "Rush-the-Druggie" nonsense, agree with him. Tell him you've got a AR-15 in a safe. Tell him those Corporate Communists (the ones who socialized Freddie and Fannie Mac, and socialized all our banks, aka the Bushmonkey, Paulison and Bernache), can have your Bill of Rights when they pry it from your cold dead fingers. Then ask him how the hell do you field strip it and clean it?
You will have instantly made a friend for life, and if you can put up with the Skoal breath, you may be able to go to the shooting range with him and discover the arcane addiction to making holes that all gun nuts share.
This is a very American thing to do. Could 300 million armed Americans beat the Hydra? No. Could they influence the government? Absolutely. Because who wants to find out the answer to that one?
Nobody.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Good idea. Unfortunately, at present, I can't afford a suit to get a Hill job, never mind a semi-auto combat rifle.
Another assinine sterotype from a prejudiced, anti-gun shitbag who is too lazy or stupid to learn how to dissamble a rifle on his own. You anti-gunners are such self-righteous, ignorant slimes.
See Class? I must have hit pretty close to home there.
This is my case in point. Billy-Bob is not upset that I made fun of the tobacco stains on his T-shirt, he's upset that I don't know how to release the clip, unlock the safety, pull the bolt back, stick my small finger into the chamber to ensure there's no round in there, release the bolt action sliding it backwards along the housing, pull the firing pin and spring out, release the barrel off the front end, remove the stock......
Actually, I have a lot of guns and clean them all the time. This is where a short stint in a community college can really serve you well Tom. English reading and comprehension is what I recommend for you. If you re-read my posts slowly, out loud to yourself, it may dawn on you that I am PRO-GUN. If you had anything going on upstairs, you would know that I am trying to get Liberals to BUY GUNS.
That's right Tom. You can do it if you try. You can read!
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
You didn't hit close to home. Don't give yourself that much credit. I'm just tired of reading idiocy like that.
Hey jerk, I'm not a 'Billy-Bob.' I don't want to go on about myself, but I'll say that I have degrees in philosophy and English and know three languages. I don't think 'Billy-Bobs' do.
No, I don't read all of your posts or what's in them because before I get through them I can take only so much nonsense then I move on. (Ditto for 90% of what's on here.)
You are pro-gun? Great. Maybe a member of the 'pro-gun' AHSA?
Are you done being condescending?
Country after country, I noticed that a nation where citizens cry for guns and more guns are often the ones more fleeced financially by the government and corporations. Do you gun toters posting here really think that owning all the firearms will help you at all?
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
"Do you gun toters posting here really think that owning all the firearms will help you at all?"
Many of them do.
The military is 27 steps ahead of them, and these thickwits think they will come to our rescue with their pop-guns. In the meantime, while the rest of us have been doing what we can to improve things, they've been going to gun shows and masturbating to the latest issue of Shooter's Bible.
Ted, funny as that last sentence is, this sadly what my fellow hicks in LA have been doing for decades. This, my friend, is where the road to Louisiana's most corrupt legislators begin at. They count on getting the gun toters and bible thumpers. Everyday in the state, at least a few gun violence incidents are reported on the local news. One can only wonder if and when this madness will ever end. The gun toters and bible thumpers are next to impossible to reason with and many of them are the same kind who'll shout "commie" in one's face when trying to discuss the need to spread the wealth, repeal tax cuts for the wealthy, put forth universal healthcare, etc ... Plus, most of them are strongly pro-war. I'm considering moving with my wife to Florida where she grew up although I hear that the places near FL Keys where she used to grow up are more expensive to live it and there's just as much rightwing madness.
Bennett, Miller
Shreveport, LA
No wonder Bobby Jindal got elected there.
Yes, that's part of it. Unfortunately, LA has moved too far to the right and the Democrats in power for so long have the corruption scandal stain for decades. I can't say that even if Obama had visited the state that he would have come close to taking it unlike Bill Clinton who won it handily twice.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
"So you're the only one waiting for a bus who gets angry stares?"
It's not just me, and it's certainly not every passerby. Just maybe one in ten.
I could be me just being paranoid. I do not trust conservatives or cops, especially anymore.
Oh btw, as I've mentioned before, I am a city-dweller, and we have the regressives here too. They aren't just in the 'burbs.
I worry about a lot of angry people and lowlifes. They always seem to find me. They come in all colors, and I hate to admit this, but at times I wish they'd all burn. I am not Bruce Lee, I have no superhuman powers. I just have my fists and my wits. With the economy tanking, there's just more animosity also, people scapegoating each other.
I just hope the 99% don't start warring with each other.
"The US may very well become the greatest basket-case nation of violent chaos that the world has ever seen - marauding armed extremist thugs that will make the death-squad era of El Salvador look like Disneyland."
And those people are acting as vigilantes (dupes) on behalf of the ruling class.
"I am now entertaining fantasies of me or my wife getting gunned down on our electric scooter because someone will view us environmentalist-therefore-socialist-mortal enemies. People in Colombia have been killed for much less. I already get occasional catcalls and derisive mocking as it is."
Welcome to my world. I've already had right-wing kooks at work with threaten to shoot me for my views. You wouldn't believe how many people hate me simply because I don't drive a car. I get angry stares from people just when I'm waiting for a bus, as if owning and driving a car is safe and dirt-cheap. These people think that they were born to pollute and spoil and think that being in debt up to their asses is a sign that they have arrived.
I don't own a gun. I don't fault people for owning ONE gun either. I can see why some people might feel the need to own ONE gun. The people I worry about own are the ones who own about 10-20. We're talking semi-automatic weapons too, not a single handgun, and they love to pose with them.
I'm certainly not going to shut up and try to fit into a mold, but I'm watching my ass as of late too. I'm not becoming a martyr.
So you're the only one waiting for a bus who gets angry stares?
I own more than 10 and six are semi-autos, so you are free to commence worrying about me.
You sound more like a restless crybaby who think guns solve everything. Our state of LA is already dead poor thanks to gun toting madness which in turn leads to electing corrupt officials.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
If gun-owners are wrong about the government's intentions, so what? They have more guns and ammo to shoot on the range or keep in their closets. Big deal.
If, however, in the future there is major gun-control by Obama and the Dem congress, who here would be willing to take back their nasty comments about "paranoid, racist, anti-gov't" gun-owners? What if the future shows that gun-owners are right?
Besides, don't you people advocate banning guns? It bothers you that you might not get away with it, that gun-owners are one step ahead of you. How dare they!
Dude, calm down. (kafir? I thought that was a racist term) You people? Do you see everything in black and white? Aint nobody coming after our guns (I am a gun owner). This is moot point.
Besides, guns did not help us when the banksters ripped off the taxpayer for trillions, did not help us when the elections were rigged, will not help us when the health insurance profiteer parasites drive us into bankruptcy and early death and prevent any reform, will not help us fight against helicopter gunships and predator drones.
'Kafir' is Arabic for 'infidel.'
That is all besides the point and does not answer my question.
And guns did not help against the Patriot Act and whatever other right-snatching the Bush people did. Gun ownership is practically your last right in this country.
Excellent point zmann. I used to bring that up with the rightwing hicks in my state only to get a lot of frothing and hissing at the mouth. Tell them about the "Patriot" Act and they should "PATRIOTISM" in my face and try to tell them that they'll lose freedoms other than their guns and they refuse to listen. With gun control which LA seriously needs, they yell "commie" ! They'll always say that their guns are more important to them and that if Bush was taking away their freedoms that he's somehow doing the right thing to win some war on terrorism. It's hard to make them listen and learn.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
It became painfully obvious to me during the DNC/RNC protests last year that we long longer have our rights. Once we choose to actually exercise them, we lose them.
Another non-answer to my question.
I suppose I shouldn't hold my breath waiting for anyone to answer it.
I did address your question.
"If, however, in the future there is major gun-control by Obama and the Dem congress, who here would be willing to take back their nasty comments about "paranoid, racist, anti-gov't" gun-owners? What if the future shows that gun-owners are right?"
My answer was that all of your rights besides the right to own a gun have already been taken away. And guns did nothing to stop it. So what use are guns against the government?
Enjoy firing several over your more than ten semi-autos at the M1 tank you're so afraid of coming down your street.
No, that does not answer the question.
I'm not afraid of M-1's coming down the street because I don't have paranoid fantasies.
Kafir is also the South African equivalent for the N word, by the way.
What is your question? You never asked me one. Try to calm down and cut the hystrionics and you might be taken seriously.
My question is at the start of this little thread we are now in, in case you have overlooked that. Scroll up a little bit and read it.
And I am perfectly calm, I'll have you know.
Gee, you could have fooled me.
I already answered your "what if" and it aint gonna happen. No one is coming to take your guns, so just relax. You should be worried about much more serious threats to your freedom, or have you not been paying attention. I have not seen you comment on other issues
Okay, anti-gun laws won't happen under Obama and the Dems. I will remember that I heard it here first.
Your irrational hysterical outbursts have gone beyond entertaining now. Either seek help for your paranoia or move to Idaho.
How about I move in with you and you can give me threrapy being that you know so much about my mental states. That would be the brother's-keeper thing to do.
I see many criticizing Michael Moore, well those that do only expose their own stupidity. Michael Moore has exposed more corruption and criminal activity in the USA than any police department, including the FBI and CIA both of them and most of the others more criminal than cop. Just a couple of days back the industries attack on "SICKO" was exposed, the banks have all your money and the automobile companies are dividing up whats left. Go look in your mirror, you will see "that one born every minute" character. Too damn stupid to realize that the government is PISSING IN YOUR FACE and telling you that it's raining, the truely sad part is that you believe them.
tmbluesflat, hey hey! MM walks on water in my world if I may, but from afar, through time and space, I fear I feel you trepidate, I fear I feel your heart race...it is easy to frusterate, look about and hyperventilate at the chaos of it all....so I'm gonna get stoned for you on pot I grew, but know we are not one nor merely two....,
On CD, you are hanging out with a gang. not just voluntarily, by your choice.....but maybe because you are lucky also, ergo comrade, it's all good in this hood., with afreaktion, an old man.
I see many criticizing Michael Moore, well those that do only expose their own stupidity. Michael Moore has exposed more corruption and criminal activity in the USA than any police department, including the FBI and CIA both of them and most of the others more criminal than cop. Just a couple of days back the industries attack on "SICKO" was exposed, the banks have all your money and the automobile companies are dividing up whats left. Go look in your mirror, you will see "that one born every minute" character. Too damn stupid to realize that the government is PISSING IN YOUR FACE and telling you that it's raining, the truely sad part is that you believe them.
You all can't seem to see the actual events forest for the propaganda trees.
Let me help with a emphasized quote:
'A week before the election, Mr Hunter bought about 20 Sig .556 calibre rifles. "I'd probably sold six or eight of those in 20 years. I placed one call to an INVESTMENT FIRM here in Memphis and within 45 minutes every one had been pre-sold.'
This isn't about "rednecks" fearing "gun-control", this is about those who became wealthy off scamming their fellow Citizens looking to protect their air-conditioned suburb-castle lifestyles from those that they screwed over.
You really think a bunch of working class Southerners have the scratch to fork over $1,500 or more a piece to stock up on military-grade rifles right now? You did catch where he'd only sold "six or eight of those in 20 YEARS" right? As in from now back to '89 or so. As in during all of Clinton and the whole "Brady bill" thing. As in when bans on such weapons were ACTUALLY under consideration.
Stop getting fooled by the "culture wars" already, Dangit!
This is about the new "haves" guarding their crap from the new "have-nots", period.
Deepa
ReadL
"Guns take pride of place in US family values"
Despite the spiralling rise in the daily number of shootings in the US, its arms culture has a firmer grip than ever, reports Paul Harris in New York.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/
2007/oct/14/usa.usgunviolence/print
What is sad about all these purchases, is these asshole racist rednecks won't use the weapons on themselves.
WHY do gun lovers ALWAYS love baseball, chevy pick-ups, NASCAR, budweiser, hate minorities in the US and all non-whites abroad, except Arabs, who they revile and want dead?
It's from watching sit-coms, fox and jerry springer in between hunting shows. Peel their heads and their little brains look like clam chowder.
I'm 52 and have not met a gun lover yet I could not whip.
Because you fight w/ you b***s, and gun lovers BECOME gun lovers because they have none. F*** guns.
You lost me on this one, Joe.
Ted Markow, 'tis nada, just tweaking the nose of the gun lover, my equivalent of watching TV, or shooting guns come to think of it. plink. plink.
TM, while I may have lost you on this one, you gained me if I may the other day on the thread where you corrected my Tillson (sic) error, and were just so darned gracious about it. anjali.
Well, I'm glad we're together, but honestly, I don't remember responding to the Tillson error. I think you're confusing me with another brother poster.
I'll take the compliment tho, and pay it forward.
Well I am a gun owner and I hate baseball and NASCAR, I do not drink beer or drive chevy pickup and I am Native American so I guess I am a Minority. I have had many Arab friends in my life, so there goes your theory! I do not like Jerry Springer either. As for whipping me, well I do not know about that.
dagger, I note you see yourself as a "gun-owner," it was gun lovers I have noted in my life were spineless and said I could whip to a one.
My point was this-gun lovers act macho, like the moron above, the SAME a****** who insulted matti at the top of the thread by the way....they talk of killing, I have always said you like to kill? Throw down your gun and do it. I wrestled my way into a college which paid my tuition. I've studied marial arts for decades. I fight for fun, I love it, BUT hate guns! And dare any gun lover to put some gloves on with me. Or leave them off.
But you dagger sound like a good person, real human, not a "gun lover," I please accord you ALL my respect. All.
Gun lovers are guys that wish their 22.'s were bigger, that like to pull their own triggers. Frued would just FREAK! cordially, joe.
And you're not acting macho, Mr. "I love to fight"?
If a gun-owner talked like Hong-Kong Fooey here, you anti-gun nuts would be all shouting how guys with his attitude is the reason guns should be banned!
I can't get over the all the rampant craziness in these comments on this site.
kafir, Good men are good fathers if they have children. They are those who treat others well and mother earth well. Many are pacifists. I'm not. But I have children I raised mostly alone who respect me, I know women are the better sex, and I like to fight. On mats, in rings. Once a week now studying jui-jitsu. With a teacher.
I cultivate dichotomies, ying/yang. gentle parent, work out too.
Goodbye little butterrfly
Your yingy-yangy poeticalishness touches me, gives me goose bumps and tears my eyes...
Where do you get this crap from? Talk about prejudiced! I cordially invite you to come "whip" this gun-owner, Laughing Boy!
How long before one of the NRA/Republican gun nuts takes a shot at Obama, and is responsible for the crackdown they fear?
And what if said gun nut is successful, and kills Obama? The 'progressives' and Obama faithful will turn on the Republicans and hard right like rabid pit bulls going after a toddler, touching off the 'race wars' so many of the hard right have wet dreams about, but actually have no idea what they are getting themselves into...
Didn't anyone learn anything from watching from Michael Moores 'Bowling for Columbine'? What about the abandonment of gun crime stats by the various police agencies and FBI?
This is not happening in a vacuum. Someone, or several someones are pulling the strings behind the scenes to touch off a domestic 'terrorism' incident that will allow the US federal government to use the full police state powers granted by the Patriot Act.
You have been warned.
Walk in peace.
You "learned" from Michael Moron? ...I don't know how to say this gently, but that doesn't speak highly of you.
And gentleness aside, your comment does not speak highly of you. But it does indeed speak and tell us something about your lack of faculty where reason is concerned.
Lack of faculty is putting it mildly. Trolls lack everything but bullshit, which is what they run on.
Since when does 'troll' mean 'someone who disagrees with you'? What did I say that's bullshit? I'm sticking to the topic and I asked relevant, substantive questions that have yet to be answered.
Too many people here are long on insults, nastiness, prejudices, and paranoid conspiracy theories and are very short on facts and reason.
kafirTom July 11th, 2009 11:20 pm
"If you want figures then go find them. You ever hear of 'search engine'?"
"Why do you have a hard time facing facts?"
kafirTom July 12th, 2009 10:37 am
"You folks sure can dish it out - but you can't take it, though!
Poor babies :)"
kafirTom July 11th, 2009 11:01 pm
"You might sorta kinda wanna try knowing just what you're talking about before you start smearing a large group of people. I think the words for that are 'bigot' and 'prejudiced.'"
kafirTom July 11th, 2009 10:50 pm
"Yeah, you know what the hell you're talking about. The basket cases are the paranoid "progressives" (sic) in these comments!"
kafirTom July 12th, 2009 5:54 pm
"Okay, one more non-answer to another of my questions. Thanks for nothing."
kafirTom July 11th, 2009 10:46 pm
"You people are anti-gun bigots."
kafirTom July 11th, 2009 10:53 pm
"You "learned" from Michael Moron? ...I don't know how to say this gently, but that doesn't speak highly of you."
kafirTom July 11th, 2009 10:43 pm
"Where do you get this crap from? Talk about prejudiced! I cordially invite you to come "whip" this gun-owner, Laughing Boy!"
kafirTom July 12th, 2009 1:53 pm
"I can't get over the all the rampant craziness in these comments on this site."
kafirTom July 12th, 2009 2:45 pm
"Your yingy-yangy poeticalishness touches me, gives me goose bumps and tears my eyes..."
kafirTom July 12th, 2009 4:49 pm
"Another non-answer to my question.
I suppose I shouldn't hold my breath waiting for anyone to answer it."
kafirTom July 12th, 2009 8:23 pm
"Yeah, dem dirty, lousy, sholling, blogging trill morons! Dey ain't pullin no wool over our asses!"
kafirTom July 12th, 2009 3:24 pm
"Wow, a gnat-swatting rebel! Cool!
I like him. He's silly :)"
Classic troll taunts from a classic troll.
You're silly. :)
Yeah, and what are those quotes responses to? They are responses to just what I'm talking about.
Fear is the prevalent human emotion. It sells guns as well as slavery.
Americans have elevated fear to a sport. We now have whole industries, and well as moronic shills trolling on blogs, who fan fear then try to pull the wool over our eyes as to the results.
"He's coming for your guns!!" seems a particularly easy sell (with a Black President) to these bigoted morons.
You people are anti-gun bigots. Nevermind that Obama and the Dem leaders in congress have consistent anti-gun voting records. It seems that for the likes of you it is easier to just blanket-smear gun-owners than actually know what the hell you're talking about.
The guns I own are from my childhood. My Dad and I used to hunt, small game mostly. He tried to kill a deer once but he couldn't pull the trigger. Now I can't kill anything. I bring bugs like spiders and beetles outside and try not to step on ants. If I have to dig a hole I apologize to the worms I may cut in half.
But I still have the guns, mine and my Dad's. I've tried to get rid of them several times but I don't. Sometimes I look at them and they creep me out, and sometimes I think that I'm glad I have them, if things get nuts.
I have no answer to the gun problem in this country. Maybe it's not about guns.
"rebelnow
I have no answer to the gun problem in this country. Maybe it's not about guns."
I created an account just because of this statement. I'd like to explore this more. I for one believe it is not about guns at all, but a feeling of powerlessness, as the world moves past them.
Has anyone here seen the HBO Documentary "Right America Feeling Wronged"? If not go out and grab it, its really good. There was one part of the movie (North Carolina I think) where the interviewer was talking to a group of self identified "Rednecks". One guy broke down in tears and his buddies all kind of shied away from him. Anyway he was lamenting about the country as he sees it. I wrote up a quick transcript. The exchange takes place around 26:50:
Pulosi - "Are you disappointed in America right now?"
guy - "Yes. Yes I am real disappointed. Used to be one time yah... We was top dog. Now we're nothin' no more. Illegal immigrants come here, and they get all the rights. We got nothin'. Try asking the government for help, they go and tell you to go fuck yourself. But let a foreigner come....it all comes down to them. They all get it. Nothing but one big gigantic rip off. Used to be a hell of a good country at one time. I just don't know what the hell happened."
It was powerful and sad. To me it spoke of the massive identity crisis that is going on in the rural and small towns in "Flyover Country". Most of these towns were in they heyday during the late 20th century (jeez I am speaking of it as if it was thousands of years ago). They were the steel mills and the textile plants. Now the world has moved past them, they feel resentment. Of course their elected officials betrayed them, it is much easier to blame it on the liberals from the 60's and call it a day. To make matters worse as the guys said, maybe unconsciously, he sees how others, that is non-majority whites are now moving up, garnering positions of power. I can only imagine the amount of cultural shock that is having on many men and women who believe or rather had been taught that being white and showing up was all they needed to do to succeed and have a place of position and power within the community.
I think that President Obama, then candidate Obama, was correct when he stated that many folks in small towns were clinging to their guns. They cling because they've been sold out by their business leaders and political leaders, and their guns are the only thing of "power" they have left.
The bad thing is that this type of split usually results in massive violence at some point.
What split and massive violence? That can't happen because we elected to the presidency the great unifier - right?
>What split and massive violence?
The violence that usually ensues when one group, feeling oppressed (or being oppressed) is incited to violence by various demagogues within the society. As an aside I believe that the inciters are merely using this faux populism to rouse these people for elections, and to give cover for blocking passage of various legislation and government programs their contributors do not wish to see Americans have.
>That can't happen because we elected to the presidency the great unifier - right?
I'll ignore the sarcasm. However Lincoln was killed for reuniting the Union by force. Just because there are many in our country who wish to move forward together does not mean that everyone wants to do that. When I am trying to determine intentions it is always important to follow the money.
I will however always have a hand out for my fellow Americans. When they are ready to accept what we need to do, and where we need to go, I'll be there to help them up when they stumble.
I'm not being sarcastic!
We heard over and over for two tears that Barry is a great uniter! I'm taking that claim at face value - like I am expected to - and I applied it to the above comment. It's simple logic: if he is a great uniter and there's splits in the populace, then Barry can unite us. I'm sure he'll get to work on it soon :)
You still have not commented on the central point in my statement, but instead choose to address some vague notion about "Barry the uniter".
I am interested in what you think about my observations.
Yes, demagogues can incite violence - and that usually happens on the left. "No justice, no peace" comes to mind. As for government programs and legislation, the less the better.
The phrase "No justice, no peace" does not, in and of itself, incite to violence. Regardless if people in the past have used it as such. That is what demagogues do (is another definition in order here?). By what measure are you implying that "the left" generally feature demagogues that incite violence?
"No justice, no peace" means that we will not sit idly by while our rights are trampled on - we will protest. "No justice, no peace" means we will not be quiet and assume "our place" in the society as if nothing is wrong. "No justice, no peace" means we will not keep up appearances.
This does mean that "No justice, no peace", gives license for those with grievances to use violence.
Again you still have not address the main point of my argument.
Okay so you are not being sarcastic.... I have not heard the Barry was the great anything. I HAVE heard people say that that wanted to both sides of the political spectrum to come together to solve our problems. I HAVE heard President Obama, and formerly candidate Obama state that he wished to work with both Democrats and Republicans to solve America's problems. If you consider that to mean "Barry is the great uniter", I disagree. Perhaps you are confused as to the meaning of the word sarcasm?
Noun
Singular
sarcasm
1. (uncountable) A form of humor that is marked by mocking with irony, sometimes conveyed in speech with vocal over-emphasis. Saying something that is opposite of what is intended to be meant.
2. (countable) An act of sarcasm.
>It's simple logic: if he is a great uniter and there's splits in the populace, >then Barry can unite us. I'm sure he'll get to work on it soon :)
No its not simple logic -- its simplistic logic. There are differences, and I decline to provide a definition for that word/phase.
I would also note that any adult (I am assuming you are an adult) who has ever interacted with another human being should understand that it is possible to be united (standing together for a cause), but to have differences of opinion about a range of issues both related and non-related to the issue at hand. So the idea that, because President Obama is in the charge of the current administration, the legislators of the "opposition" party, as well as their supporters must agree with his policies is absurd. I will again assume sarcasm.
Speaking from my own experiences in my marriage, I am united with my wife -- however I disagree (vehemently) with her refusal to allow my purchase of a motorcycle (Honda VTX1800). Nevertheless we are still united, and I still don't have my bike...
signed,
cod3fr3ak "The Not-So-Great Uniter"
You're no fun! :( I was disguising my sarcasm - in more sarcasm! There you made me say it - and that takes the fun out of it...Lighten up!
But my sarcasm does have a point, all the same.
I think that I could lighten up - if it were not a very serious issue. Our media mis-frames issues all the time. I suspect that the frame of "great uniter" highlights just one instance.
We all have a stake in addressing this issue. The fractures between the people at that rally in that clip, and the rest of the nation, highlight a very real danger to our nation.
Somehow I don't think that anyone has to worry about you rebelling now.
I forgot to mention that I still swat gnats, especially that rare annoying breed of kafirtoms from the swamps of Trollintown.
Wow, a gnat-swatting rebel! Cool!
I like him. He's silly :)
Hey, what do you have against gnats all of a sudden?
I am a progressive, Obama supporting, former New Yorker. i have spent most of my life working in communities where violence is rampant.(ie NYC's most left behind and besieged neighborhoods).
I lived in NY 37 years. For the following 10 years,i resided in several different communities including a Pennsylvanis small city surrounded by a county with one of the highest concentrations of white supremacist groups in the nation, on or near two different Indian reservations in New Mexico, Appalachia, and a small rural area of Upstate New York...
Because of my work with families reamed by violence, and with individuals seeking to leave it behind and support a new lifestyle, i have a birds eye view so to speak of the etiologies of violence in USA and how to combat same.
The first is that violence is a learned behavior, and often becomes an addictive substitute for power in the lives of the deluded, degraded, debauched, exploited, victimized and powerless.this is so irrespective of socio-econmics or class.
The second is that violence is increasing in severity as the black market global oligarchy that has reached out and touched most communities in America manufactures criminals who depend upon that economy of victimization and exploitation just to stay alive.
A violent person will hurt you with anything they have or can make: be it acid, a knife, (HUGE PROBLEM IN ENGLAND RIGHT NOW IS Explosive PROLIFERATION OF KNIfE and all forms of VIOLENCE, including guns)homemade explosives, a club, or sheer overpowering physical force, or what have you.
A gun is a great equalizer. A gun is a tool that efficiently and effectively provided for self protection. A gun in the hands of a licensed sober citizen is not to be feared but a great protection.Guns are beautiful items to collect and to use in sports, such as mounted cowboy/cowgal shooting.
Those who are afraid of liberal gun laws need to do their homework and stop relying on the Brady Bunch who lie outright and have been called by their own researchers for fudging and misrepresenting stats. You cannot solve social problems with lies.
The first thing to do is protect democracy, including second amendment rights. the second thing to do is protect home and family from criminals. the third thing is to work in violencee prevention.
treatment need to be readily available for victims and eyewitnesses of violence, especially the children of abusive families, which enables them to heal.opportunities must be developed and made available in multiply besieged communities without industry, to survive without selling drugs or pimping, ending the glorification of such blood money enterprises that should be obsolete by now...
Ending social darwinism and making the workplace a place that is supportive and based upon TQM based management styles rather than hate-fueled dog eat dog practices that fuel mental illness and also ineffeciency and defeat practical idealism. A proliferation of the arts sports and humanities among children and adults. these are some of the the things that counter violence.
All limiting guns from sane sober responsible people and citizens does is place our entire democracy at risk and also make those of us who responsibly want to protect ourselves,either reluctant criminals or prospective victims.
The statistic may be somewhat old by now, but I recall hearing that most people who own guns will either kill themselves or someone they know with their weapon.
Personal defense against criminals is a rare use of a gun. What's being defended with the gun is more psychological than physical.
Notice the emphasis in this article of defending against "socialism." Obama is precisely the opposite of a socialist. He's more in tune with the capitalist class than even George Bush was - if that's possible.
Probably, the rubes mean to say that they want to defend themselves from Stalinist-style communism, which is just an anachronistic absurdism. They aren't getting poor here in the United States because of socialism or communism. These folks just can't handle the truth.
Ironically, the only hope for the country is if red-state rubes finally do embrace socialism and reject funneling their tax dollars to wasteful militarism, which hasn't done a thing for them but has killed many hundreds of thousands needlessly.
Socialism simply means taking care of everyone's basic needs. While defense is part of that, it's not everything. The United States spends as much for defense as nearly the rest of the world combined.
It's a rube's world we live in.
-TIA
Your statistic about people being shot in the home is bogus anti-gun spin to begin with. It applies to ex-cons and the like, not the general public.
By the way, by what right do you decide that I must be forced to "taking care of everyone's basic needs"?