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Upside Down Flag Has Vet in Fight for 1st Amendment Rights
Dispute Over Flag Protest Erupts in Wisc. Village
WAUSAU, Wis. - An American flag flown upside down as a protest in a northern Wisconsin village was seized by police before a Fourth of July parade and the businessman who flew it - an Iraq war veteran - claims the officers trespassed and stole his property.
This photo provided by Susan Willems taken July 5, 2009 shows an American flag being flown upside down, a day after it was removed by local police, in Crivitz, Wis. The flag being flown upside down as a protest in a small northern Wisconsin village was seized by police before a Fourth of July parade. The businessman flying the flag claims police trespassed and stole his property. (AP Photo/Susan Willems) A day after the parade, police returned the flag and the man's protest - over a liquor license - continued.
The American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin is considering legal action against the village of Crivitz for violating Vito Congine Jr.'s' First Amendment rights, Executive Director Chris Ahmuty said.
"It is not often that you see something this blatant," Ahmuty said.
In mid-June, Congine, 46, began flying the flag upside down - an accepted way to signal distress - outside the restaurant he wants to open in Crivitz, a village of about 1,000 people some 65 miles north of Green Bay.
He said his distress is likely bankruptcy because the village board refused to grant him a liquor license after he spent nearly $200,000 to buy and remodel a downtown building for an Italian supper club.
Congine's upside-down-flag represents distress to him; to others in town, it represents disrespect of the flag.
Hours before a Fourth of July parade, four police officers went to Congine's property and removed the flag under the advice of Marinette County District Attorney Allen Brey.
Neighbor Steven Klein watched in disbelief.
"I said, 'What are you doing?' Klein said. "They said, 'It is none of your business.'"
The next day, police returned the flag.
Brey declined comment Friday.
Marinette County Sheriff Jim Kanikula said it was not illegal to fly the flag upside down but people were upset and it was the Fourth of July.
"It is illegal to cause a disruption," he said.
The parade went on without any problems, Kanikula said.
Village President John Deschane, 60, an Army veteran who served in Vietnam, said many people in town believe it's disrespectful to fly the flag upside down.
"If he wants to protest, let him protest but find a different way to do it," Deschane said.
Congine, a Marine veteran who served in Iraq in 2004, said he intends to keep flying the flag upside down.
"It is pretty bad when I go and fight a tyrannical government somewhere else," Congine said, "and then I come home to find it right here at my front door."
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144 Comments so far
Show AllUsing a recognized distress signal for a political statement is pathetic.
Doing something that is not illegal is not the same as license to do it.
I recently saw a picture of the coward Bill Ayers standing on the American flag. It was in an alley, which was approproiate for him, legal...yes....but you won't see him do it in front of a bunch of Americans.
My father (another Marine earned this Marines right to fly that flag upside down, but he would have been ihe first to have kicked his butt up between his soldier blades.
And if anyone here doesn't know the difference here, shame on you.
If you find it offensive don't look at it, or grow the hell up. There's nothing shameful any citizen of this country can do that ousts what our "representatives" have already done. If I owned a flag I would most surely hang it upside down in disgust for this countries actions, but buying one would be a waste of time.
I'm fairly well grown up little fella. Dishonoring my countries flag has nothing to do with the corruption of our government. Its simply the action of small people.
Forum Suggestion:
If you want to read a blowhard troll's comments about his personal overreactions to a veteran's distress signaled in a free speech manner or dissin the flag (according to him) keep reading Henry8 comments. If you read the 20+ threads you will not be anymore enlightened by his comments that the above comment. My suggestion? Skip Henry8 and just read the folks before and after. Oh and I agree with commentators who say the service status of the flag flyer is irrelevant. We all have inalienable rights, regardless of military service or not. Peace out, minnow
odoco
Henry8 - I notice you say your father served - but you don't mention your service. . . .
The flag is now nothing more than a colored piece of rag to me. It no longer represents the reality of this country, if it ever really did. If anything, it represents a false ideal engineered by the elitist, right-wing, corporate hegemony now ruling this country. And I fully support the Iraq vet's right to do as he pleases with it.
When this country's leaders decide to obey the law, when they prosecute war criminals, when they actually abide by Constitutional restraints, when they begin to legislate for the PEOPLE instead of the corporations, when they stop using the 'flag' to emotionally justify their illegal invasions of other countries - then and only then will I again respect the flag.
And before you ask, I served under the 'flag' at Chu Lai, Phu Bai and Bien Hoa - as a volunteer in that misguided and falsely justified war. it was a lesson I will not forget, and I will never again use that flag to justify the inhumanity inflicted upon other peoples so we might pursue and secure 'American interests.'
odoco
I also fully support his right to do it free of any interference from the police or any other government entity, but as I pointed out above, as soon as we had dispatched the police, either one of us would have indeed kicked his ass for him for dishonoring it. Or tried anyway....though I have no doubt my Dad would have done it.
I certainly honor your decision not to honor our flag, thats your right, again defended by many. But I maintain you nor anyone else has the right to dishonor it, legal or not. Thats the way I feel and thats the way I would act if someone did it in front of me.
"When this country's leaders decide to obey the law, when they prosecute war criminals, when they actually abide by Constitutional restraints, when they begin to legislate for the PEOPLE instead of the corporations, when they stop using the 'flag' to emotionally justify their illegal invasions of other countries - then and only then will I again respect the flag."
I understand exactly what you are saying here and I respect your right of course to view it that way. Allow me to suggest that our flag and the people it represents are not the same as ones you suggest are trying to misuse it in exactly the way you say. Those cowards always do. You know having seen combat yourself the chickenhawk that would be waving that flag from the RE saying "go get em boys" You are speaking of those same cowards here at home. Wasn't the bravest soldier you met at a bar in the rear or in the States?
You know full well none of us were out there waving flags or fighting for Democracy or any of that stuff. We were all just trying to stay alive till our tour was up. Picture a shortimer grabbing the flag and hollering "come on boys" lets get em for President Johnson and America! Happened all the time! (lol)
"as a volunteer in that misguided and falsely justified war. it was a lesson I will not forget, and I will never again use that flag to justify the inhumanity inflicted upon other peoples so we might pursue and secure 'American interests.'"
Ha! Got you there! They had to draft my sorry rear. I spent 14 months in combat, mostly in the Que Son Mountains and the Arizona Valley some. And I will certainly agree with your feelings about war and all the other things we both know that many here will never know, can't know and if they had any sense wouldn't want to know..... my feeling is that has nothing to do with our flag nor the people it truly represents.
Every time I see disrespect shown to that flag I think of the ones that came home under them, the ones I handed to such young girls.......I feel I have to defend them and our flag from that disrespect.
My thanks for your thoughtful and civil response.
So let me get this straight, Henry. You're saying if you'd been there, you and your old man (a man too old to get in a fistfight, I bet) would have stuck around until the police left and then you would try to kick this guy's ass, or your old man would definitely kick his ass. And this would be okay, because he did something you think is rude.
With all due respect, Henry, I think you're a blowhard. How typically American of you to think you have a right to go around kicking the asses of people you don't even know and who've caused you no threat, simply because you disagree with how they do things. Most likely this fantasy scenario of yours would have played out a lot differently in reality than in your imagination; it probably would have ended in serious injury or death for someone, would have involved police, emergency personnel, and later on lawyers and judges and perhaps even a prison warden. Sometimes it's best to mind your own business, especially if you are incapable of foreseeing the consequences of your actions.
Henry8 sounds like an American (probably christian) version of the Taliban or al-Qaeda. Replace all of the "pro-America" words he spews with "Islam" or "Muslim" and he sounds no different than any of the so called "Islamo-fascists". Henry8 would take a US citizen's rights and replace them with his version of "amerikanism". He probably thinks the US Constitution is just a silly, antiquated piece of paper that serves better as toilet paper or fire fuel, but, would use it to deny rights others, just like Taliban or al-Qaeda, because, you know, that's just the way he feels about it. Yes, folks, the Taliban are alive and well and in the US, wrapping themselves in a US flag like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Maybe Henry8 should rename himself Mullah Osama bin Henry8...
Doing something which is not illegal is certainly the same as license to do it -- unless in your delusion you think that the right of free speech requires a license. Do you not know what a 'right' is?
As for your father, if he had kicked someone butt like that, he would have been guilty of battery --- which IS illegal.
You are hardly someone to lecture anyone on what the 'differences' are or what 'pathetic' is, when you don't even understand the very basics of the law, democracy, freedom, or constitutional rights.
Do you feel its alright to do whatever you please because it is yourt "right" when you are violating someone else's right? You live by a mighty double standard then.
I understand them quite well because I've been where they aren't. Obviously you haven't.
Flying the flag upside down is not violating anyone's rights. No on has the right not to be disagreed with, or not offended (if they choose to be offended).
You would use physical violence to put down those you disagree with, and claim you have a right to do so. That's really warped. That's the attitude of dictatorial coountries, where law menas nothing compared to having power -- and that's what this country has largely become because of people like you defending such violations of law and civil rights. You want to be 'the decider'.
No, Henry8, you don't understand this at all. (And you have no idea where I've been or what I've seen.)
Oregoncharles
"Using a recognized distress signal for a political statement is" ..... a really good idea!
Anti-Viet Nam war activists used to do it all the time. Upside down flags hung in windows, on front porches. It was, to a substantial degree, those feisty late 60s rebels that helped get the US out of Viet Nam. Someone had to step up to the plate and they did.
If it offends your sensibilities, look the other way. Better yet, wear blinders.
Are you really trying to say that only veterans or people who serve in the forces have the rights mentioned in the Bill of Rights? Perhaps you should reconsider the idea that only vets have the 'right' to do something that is, in your opinion, unthinkable to them...
In the end any flag is a hunk of cloth. I always thought dubya used that flag to cover a stinking pile of manure when he used it to cover his war of aggression against Iraq, not to mention the other war of aggression against Afghanistan.
if you look at the pictures of bush in that classroom on 11sept2001, you will see that he wasn't wearing his ubiquitous magic stars'n'stripes lapel pin.
No wonder his super powers failed him that day.
Why not wear these pins upside down, as I suggest below.
If enough do it, the message of a Republic in distress could not be ignored.
I'm sorry you have no respect for your country. It must be a very empty feeling.
I suppose in the worlds of the henry8ths respect for ones country is accomplished by LYING to a nation and then sending troops overseas so one can kill "Commie Gooks" or "terrorist Iraqis".
Just as long as you respect that fricking flag.
This apparently gives him a sense of "fullfillment".
That unworthy of you. You know exactly what I am really saying. Tryiong to reduce it to some tierd old idological clichés.
As for the personal insult, shame on you.
I grow quite tired of your double standards. You insult everyone who does not agree with them, suggesting they have empty lives and are pathetic but when your own words are broken down into their REAL meaning you take umbrage.
Suggesting people MUST honor the flag is the oldest "Ideological Cliche" there is.
"That unworthy of you. You know exactly what I am really saying. Tryiong to reduce it to some tierd old idological clichés.
As for the personal insult, shame on you."
What is this? A World Federation Wrestling Interview? I've never read such trailer-trash primer. Go to college or find a NASCAR or Rodeo board to dribble on.
I'm not a citizen of a country that worships its flag. I'm Canadian.
One would think that if you did really respect your flag and what it's supposed to stand for you'd be far more upset about the lack of prosecution for the crimes of the bush era, let alone the other eras of us history. If you're rich it's a great country, but if you're poor...
'enryHate posts:
"I'm sorry you have no respect for your country. It must be a very empty feeling."
the empty feeling comes from the country not deserving respect any more . . .
Are you really trying to say that only veterans or people who serve in the forces have the rights mentioned in the Bill of Rights
Of course not.
In the end any flag is a hunk of cloth. I always thought dubya used that flag to cover a stinking pile of manure when he used it to cover his war of aggression against Iraq, not to mention the other war of aggression against Afghanistan.
No the flag was used to cover my friends and that of the friends of my father. Both those that came home and those thast stayed behind.
Henry - shame is something one can only apply to one's self.
Have you ever felt the cleansing power of it?
warning repeat :Forum Suggestion:
If you want to read a blowhard troll's comments about his personal overreactions to a veteran's distress signaled in a free speech manner or dissin the flag (according to him) keep reading Henry8 comments. If you read the 20+ threads you will not be anymore enlightened by his comments that the above comment. My suggestion? Skip Henry8 and just read the folks before and after. Oh and I agree with commentators who say the service status of the flag flyer is irrelevant. We all have inalienable rights, regardless of military service or not. Peace out, minnow
Hey Henry,
Did you ever put your life on the line for your country?
The ONLY reason for ANYONE to put their life on the line for their country is if their country is invaded. Like the Iraqis. Like the Afghans. Like the Vietnamese. Putting your life on the line for your country in the USA means putting your life on the line for high profits of the MIC. I've never been in the military but when this country is invaded I will be the first to pick up a gun and go after the invaders.
as General Smedley Butler said (1933 Marines) -
"WAR is a Racket of big Money, Big Banks, Big Corporations..i believe in a strong defense around our coastlines - no more than 500 miles away..and nothing ELSE..for 30 years I served the INterests of our Chamber of Commerce and the Racketeers of Big Money..there is no Money Corruption that the US army is blind to - ..Al Capone has nothing on me. i could have taught him a trick or two...his racket is only in Chicago and a few american cities....MINE was in Three Continents...and for 30 years I suspended my own conscience , knowing that what we do abroad is Evil...and i will have nothing more to do with it"
I hear your dislike of an individual flying the flag of our nation legally as a expression of his constitutional right in the distress mode.
Where is your indignation for the use of that flag being flown over our troops as they illegally invade three countries and kill a million people and displace 4-5 million more?
Where is your indignation to the flying of our flag over a military base illegally obtained from a foreign country and set up for the soul purpose of illegally detaining, torturing and killing people?
"for the soul purpose of illegally detaining, torturing and killing people?"
I know it's a typo - but that should be either SOLE purpose or SOULLESS purpose.
your choice, friend.
peace and justice will be.
The american flag should be flown upside down because this country is in distress!
And please, no more "they're fighting for our freedom" when in fact most activity by US military is and has been for some time about imperialism, not protecting america or americans. Our "freedom" (as so aptly outlined in this article) is not threatened by Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Honduras, Somalia, etc.
"We" are fighting them there so "we" don't have to fight them here. We need to beware of the vast Iraqi, Afghan, Iranian, Honduran and Somali air, naval and ground forces. They could mount a sneak attack and invasion at any time.
Yeah that's another good line...lol
"we are spying on you over here so you won't spy on us over there."
EKATON & baruchzed
None of that has anything to do with dishonoring our flag which is what we are speaking of here. and the folks that died under it. Its really that simple. To do it is bad manners and disrespects everyone else.
BUT FLYING THE FLAG UPSIDE-DOWN IS NOT "DISHONORING" IT!
Sorry to shout, but I think you and everyone you are suckering into pointless, free-floating argument needed it.
Please note:
The man flying the U.S. flag in "distress" position IS a veteran of the Iraq war himself. He served "under the flag", was instructed as to its honorable use, and is using it thusly.
Not that I really believe your whole "patriot" act or whatever you want to call it.
I'd say its more likely that you live under a bridge, if you know what I mean.
Firstly, a flag is a piece of cloth, it's a symbol. You may dishonor or honor what it stands for, but in and of itself it is simply cloth, like money is only paper and metal (and plastic).
Secondly, The guy in the article was displaying the flag upside down for personal monetary reasons and because he felt fucked with by the government. That is arguable in terms of appropriate use of the symbol of the upside down flag.
I do think that it is a legitimate form of communication to hang the flag upside down when your country is ruled by crooks, liars, and murderers.
All of that has everything to do with dishonoring the flag. Flying the flag over countries illegally invaded and occupied terribly dishonors the flag and makes it a symbol of shame.
They died for a lie. Every single one of them.
More so than any religion, patriotism should be abolished.
No matter what anyone thinks of Congine's choice to fly his flag upside down, DA Allen Brey and Sheriff Jim Kanikula knowlingly and blatently broke the law when they ordered the trespass on Congine's property and took his flag. Congine has a constitutional right to protest, even if the people of Crivitz, WI, think it is disrespectful of the flag or disagree with him in any other way.
I am surprised at all the people posting before me for not standing up for Congine's constitutional right of free speech under the First Amendment.
All the commenters here on CD protest Bush's many violations of the Constitution and now Obama's continuation of the violations, but nobody seems to realize that the more ordinary people of the US violate others rights in many ways on a daily basis. No wonder the majority of the population does not rise up when presidents ignore the Constitution, because they permit the same behavior by their local sheriffs and police all the time.
"This flag thing is typical of the behavior of pinheads"
lapel-pinheads!
turn em all upside down!!!
"These are the god, America, and apple pie people who can't handle dissenting viewpoints."
What arrogance. The only typical pinhead behavior is saying something like that.
>>My father (another Marine earned this Marines right to fly that flag upside down, but he would have been ihe first to have kicked his butt up between his soldier blades
So your father obviously did not believe in Freedom of Speech. For what other reasons would he have kicked the butt of fellow citizens up to their shoulder blades?
How did he earn himself that RIGHT?
Is it your contention that rights must be EARNED predicated upon behaviour YOU find acceptable?
Having to EARN ones rights by service to the State, or gaining the privelege of kicking anothers butt up to around their shoulder blades because they do not "properly" honor the trappings of said State, are practices of Fascist States.
This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Its a man who chooses to dishonior others by using a signal for his own selfish reassons. Freedom of speech does not contain the right to scream "fire" in a cowded theater. Nor does it give you the right to violate the rights of others in exercising your own rights.
I have seem many comments here about the flying of the Confederate Battle Flag here, but there wasn't anyone defending those folks freedom of speech. I guess there are different rules though the two acts are the same.
My contention is simple, if you exercise bad manners don't expect them to be accepted simply because its legal.
He earned it in the South Pacific. He earned it by surviving which few of his brothers did. He earned that right by leaving many of them on an Island he is not allowed to visit because of a bunch of cowardly bastards in Washington. QAnd their fellow travelers.
No one is required to honor "trappings" but you are required not to dishonor them. Any other view is simply pathetic.
>>No one is required to honor "trappings" but you are required not to dishonor them. Any other view is simply pathetic.
You belief system in a nutshell.
To be blunt, were I to adopt YOUR beliefs I would be dishonoring my own forbears who FOUGHT against Fascism.
That one was in battle KILLING an enemy does not give a person MORE rights.
Margalo July 11th, 2009 12:37 pm
I do not believe that anyone here does not understand the criminal activities of our government from GW Bush to the local cop that put up freedom squares during the RNC.
What makes us throw up is the Rush, Bill o', and religious right toadies that foam at the mouth patriotic slogans that our government uses to control the world and the people who live on it. It's called propaganda.
Almost all of our bill of rights has been or is being shredded with full agreement from Obama.
Check out www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23009.htm
for a little piece of the corruption and illegality.
Yes indeed, the flag is nothing more than a piece of cloth. But, there are MANY American flags and the United States Flag is just one of them. The Canadian flag is another American flag. A Google of the the flag code in the USA will show that the statute is about how to handle the Flag of the United States of America, not the "American flag".
Henry. There is nothing "illegal" about flying the United States flag upside down. And by the way, I did put my life on the line for my country, but most importantly, I put my life on the line to defend the U.S. Constitution, which by the way includes the right of the people to express themselves. Yes, even by flying the US flag upside down.
The police invaded Cogine's property without cause. They stole his property. They violated Cogine's constitutional rights. People supporting the authorities are what makes fascism possible.
Excellent points.
In fact, the people that USAns call "Latin Americans" rarely use the term among themselves. They call themselves "Américanos" and those in the US are called "Norteaméricano" or "Estadounidese" or, abbreviated, USAn. Pronounce it as you like.
- USAn
Indeed. Jose Marti wrote about it in his book, "Our America", a phrase who makes reference to the Yanqui subversion of the term, "America".
You missed my point that I said that it is not illegal, simply that it is offensive to use our flag as a distress signal that way.
But an oops here....I forgot to say the police had absolutely no right to take it down or interfere in any way with his right to fly it however he wanted to. "The police invaded Cogine's property without cause. They stole his property. They violated Cogine's constitutional rights." Absolutely correct.
What I was saying was that my father (and myself) would have been offended. And we would have stood sholder to sholder with him against the police. But man to man, after we had gotten rid of the police, either of us would have kicked his ass (if we could) for insulting our brothers who gave their lives, The flags on my brothers coffins were never upside down.
In the end, its just damn bad manners.
My thanks for your civility
What is "offensive" is in the eye of the beholder. Oh please, about "kicking ass", and "insulting our brothers who gave their lives". In fact, your "kicking ass" would have insulted your brothers for they fought and died precisely for the right of expression which includes flying the flag upside down. You see, as a veteran I am not offended. Why would I be, as it is someone else's choice of expression.
Both my father and mother fought the Nazis in WWII and they understand full well where such "kick ass" attitudes can lead to. They lived through the ultimate manifestation of it, including the equivalent of Purple Hearts. Bad manners are also in the eye of the beholder. Sounds to me that there is a fair amount of patriarchy here. Then again, besides being the last refuge of scoundrels, that is what patriotism is.