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TechnoratiIsrael Tests 'Doomsday' Response
Israel has begun its largest-ever defence drill, testing the response of its emergency services to a "doomsday scenario" of missile attacks, bombings and natural disasters.
![[Israel will test its response to simultaneous attacks from Lebanon and Gaza [EPA]]](http://www.commondreams.org/files/article_images/israel-2_0.jpg "israel-2.jpg")
The five-day national exercise got under way on Sunday, with defence
officials playing down any connection to recent and growing tensions
with Iran.
The drill simulates simultaneous rocket strikes from the Gaza Strip and Lebanon and missile attacks from Iran and Syria.
It will test the way rescue services deal with attacks, including conventional, chemical and biological strikes against large population centres.
The exercise will also simulate a wave of Palestinian suicide bombings.
"We will be exercising the doomsday scenario of simultaneous strikes against Israel on all fronts and by different means," Shlomo Dror, a defence ministry spokesman, said last week.
Simulated attack
On Tuesday, air-raid sirens will sound across the country and Israelis must scramble to shelters, in some areas within seconds and others within no more than three minutes.
The so-called "exercise turning point 3" will also simulate the conduct of rescue and medical services during earthquakes and epidemics.
There will be simulated cabinet meetings in which ministers will weigh their response to the drill's scenarios.
This is the third consecutive year Israel has conducted defence drills.
The manoeuvres began in the aftermath of the July-August 2006 war with Hezbollah in Lebanon, which revealed major weaknesses in how Israel dealt with the rocket attacks on its territory.
"The Second Lebanon War revealed that the homefront was not well prepared for war and citizens found it hard to adapt to the special situation," Dror said.
'Sabre-rattling'
Jacky Rowland, Al Jazeera's Jerusalem correspondent, said that while Israel claimed that the drill had "no special significance", it would likely be seen in the context of "Israel's sabre-rattling towards Iran and also towards other neighbouring Arab countries".
"It was only a couple of weeks ago that Prime Minister [Binyamin] Netanyahu was in Washington and he was really pushing the question of Iran and its perceived nuclear threat really to the top of the agenda of his talks with President [Barack] Obama," she said.
"So although Israel is saying that this is a defensive drill and its really practising its ability to defend its civilians against attack from outside, inevitably it has to be interpreted by Israel's Arab neighbours - and indeed the Palestinians of Gaza and the West Bank - as a warning, a not so subtle warning, of Israel's offensive capacities to strike should these circumstances arise."
The drill comes just two weeks after the air force wrapped up a four-day exercise testing its ability to defend against strikes from Syria and Iran.
Israel believes Iran is developing nuclear weapons and has not ruled out a military strike on the country in response.
Iran says its nuclear programme is only for energy production.
74 Comments so far
Show AllIsrael will founder not due to a massive attack but as a result of it's own internal degredation. As an apartheid nation they cannot every really survive will all citizens as equals. Already there is racism expressed between the Sephardic Jews, the Ashkenazi and the largely secular russian jews.
Without the Palestinians or Arabs living among them they will have no choice but to abuse each other. Since the IDF is already practiced at torture and ritualized sodomy you can bet that is the form it will take.
All the violence and the threat thereof is so vulgar!
"I believe the technical term is work."
I agree this....
Sujja
------
Automating FTP
http://www.sysax.com/ftpauto/
NJ Man Fined for Giving Secret Documents to Israel
NEW YORK (AP) -- A judge spared an 85-year-old former U.S. Army engineer any prison time for passing secret documents to the Israelis in the 1980s but said it remains a mystery why such a grave assault on national security took 23 years to prosecute.
U.S. District Judge William H. Pauley III on Friday scolded Ben-ami Kadish for letting the Israelis steal classified documents between 1979 and 1985 from the Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center at the Picatinny Arsenal in Dover, N.J., where he worked.
``What you did was a very grave offense,'' the judge told Kadish, who hobbled to a lectern with a metal cane to deliver a short statement before he was fined $50,000 but was given no prison time and no probation.
Kadish, who seemed to fall asleep while his lawyer argued for leniency, apologized.
``It was a mistake. It was a misjudgment,'' he said. ``I thought I was helping the state of Israel without harming the United States.''
The judge told him that it was difficult to dismiss his conduct as a simple error in judgment but that it would serve no purpose to send him to prison since he was so old and in poor health and because the government had drastically reduced the seriousness of the charges, which initially could have been punishable by death.
``This was not one mistake,'' the judge said. ``This was over many years.''
At the start of the sentencing hearing, the judge demanded that the government tell him why it took until 2008 to prosecute Kadish.
``Why it took the government 23 years to charge Mr. Kadish is shrouded in mystery,'' he said.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Iris Lan said the government waited because the FBI wasn't able to assemble enough evidence until then.
Later, though, the judge praised the government for bringing the case at all.
``When someone jeopardizes national security, they should understand that no matter how long it takes -- even 23 years -- the government is going to seek them out and bring them to the bar of justice,'' he said.
In December, Kadish, of Monroe Township, N.J., admitted passing the documents to the Israelis by letting Yossi Yagur, an Israeli government agent who had requested them, photograph them in the basement of his home. He pleaded guilty to a count of conspiracy.
The judge called Kadish's crime ``stealthy and sustained'' and noted that Kadish remained friends with Yagur for decades, even visiting him in Israel in 2004. He questioned how Kadish earned more than $100,000 in 2007 even though he hasn't had a job in years.
Kadish's lawyer, Jack T. Litman, said his client had nearly $1 million in securities that generated substantial revenue.
When the $50,000 fine was ordered, Kadish said, ``No problem.''
After his lawyer asked the government to return his passport, Kadish pressed him to also ask prosecutors to return stamps he had received from Yagur but that were seized by investigators.
Kadish was born in Connecticut but was raised in British-controlled Palestine from age 4 on a farm. He fought in the British and U.S. armies in World War II.
The government has said he let Yagur photograph documents about nuclear weapons, a modified version of an F-15 fighter jet and the U.S. Patriot missile air defense system.
Israel responded to Kadish's arrest in April 2008 with a statement that didn't deny the accusations.
``To remove any doubt, since 1985 there has been much care taken to observe the directives of the prime ministers not to engage in any activities of this type in the U.S.,'' Israel Foreign Ministry spokesman Arye Mekel said then.
TM & Copyright 2009 CBS Radio Inc. and its relevant subsidiaries. CBS RADIO & EYE Logo TM & Copyright 2009 CBS Broadcasting Inc. Used under license. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. TheAssociated Press contributed to this report.
I saw an Israeli woman interviewed on cable ranting that "It is none of Obama's business what we do in regard to the settlements." Really? Then please hand back the mulit-billions of dollars you receive every year to prop up your economy and militarism. They aren't "settlements" any more than the Puritans "settled" Native New England---try discussing all this with the word COLONIES instead and see how long the Israeli position lasts. And guess why American "religious" groups are always asking for funds to help transport Russian Jews to Israel. For their "dream of the homeland"? Crap---It's to provide Israel with reasonably skilled cheap labor to replace the imprisoned Palestinians. Every day I am more angered and outraged and repelled by Israeli hypocrisy and brutality. Cut off even some of the funding---and watch how fast they turn to the negotiation table. What the hell except hell do we get out of this? A better illusion of ourselves as "Chosen" too...
I would not be surprised if this same Israeli woman in another rant states "The Western Nations abandoned the Jews to The Nazis and did not lift a finger to help!!"
I thought that theocracywatch.org and Project for the New American Century (PNAC) newamericancentury.org indicated that the Jews were to be offered the chance to convert to (their version of) Christianity before they were all destroyed. Is it time yet? If so then this show won't help and if not then this show is pointless. It's nothing but a 'trade show' for the Merchants of Death.
Why only Gaza and Lebanon - Israel has already illegally destroyed them. What about the rest of the world? What about the widdows and orphans from Israeli destruction of American Liberty? Corrie?
Hurry up with the doomsday for the zionists and the right wing nuts of USA.
The Zionist State Couldn't Care Less About Its People
"Based on?"
"Its Masada fanaticism."
"Which is?"
"Our way or doomsday."
"For example?"
"The tens of thousands of Jews who ended up in gas chambers on account of the refusal of Zionist leaders to allow endangered Eastern European Jewry to take sanctuary in the West - 'Get thee to Palestine or die', was the essence of how much Zionism cared.'"
"And should a catastrophe hits Israel today, are the Jewish settlers willing and ready to die?"
"They won't have a say."
"Just as East European Jews had no say when Zionism's head honchos decided not to allow them to escape to England and other places West."
"The answer being?"
"That Jewish colonizer and colonized Palestinian sit down together and work things out."
"Based on?"
"One equals one."
"Anything else?"
"Liberty and justice for all."
Israel is one very, very sick puppy (with nukes). Masada, here we come!
""We will be exercising the doomsday scenario of simultaneous strikes against Israel on all fronts and by different means," Shlomo Dror, a defence ministry spokesman, said last week."
"Doomsday" is not a good word to use in association with Israel.
Israel has nuclear weapons. Iran will probably have them soon. A balance of terror also known as mad will emerge. Then a two state solution will become the only option. BOTH Israelis and Palestinians should learn to live side by side in peace.
If Iran is developing a nuclear weapon and if they have ONE in five years without being bombed or nuked first.
How is One nuke going to be parity with 200 nukes of one the the most ruthless and well trained militaries in the world?
Odd that a defensive exercise would be redefined as unnecessary or even aggressive in intent.
Expansion in Israel's case is a reasonable response to military provocations, as opposed to empire building simply because it can.
Zionists need defensive exercises Gaza may throw chunks of concrete and Lebanon may hurl back a few cluster bombs.
You know a Zionist is ignoring reality when he substitutes semetic for zionist.
Semetics are not a problem but greedy demented zionists are along with their USA enablers.
Thanks to the unwavering support of the US Empire you mean!
The poor Israelis with their nuclear weapons, racist imperialist policies, Apartheid Wall, War Crimes. They are the imperial aggressors, not victims. However I do feel sorry for them.
israel is the doomsday machine. we have the off switch, now lets use it, before it is too late.
Rest assured, Israel will prevail. God will not be mocked.
That's right, God will not be mocked, and that's why Israel will not "prevail."
Unless you mean that Israel will repent in time and turn away from the path to destruction they have chosen.
The Old Testament is the story of the Jews mocking God by ignoring His commandments and refusing to heed the warnings of His prophets. The outcomes were never good. There is no reason to think it will go better this time.
No. God won't be mocked. And that's why Israel will not prevail because they have broken every law of God that ever was, and always posture so self-righteously that they are the victims and nobody likes them.
Israel's leaders are projecting sick stuff which is really about who they are and what they do, which is attack and grab and give no quarter.
Just had to read some snippets of the TALMUD and the journals of a few of the early leadership, and the word I came up with is VILE.
And in writing this, I do not include all Jews, just those who seem not to know the meaning of Judaism and its own evolvement in humaneness, justice, fairness.
If they still are stuck at the Adam-and-Eve level and Leviticus ... my God.
My mother used to say it, "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar." Vinegar, thy name is the Israeli government's plans and actions that reap a harvest of destruction and increasingly, the world's enmity.
The arrogant behavior and pronouncements and cruel actions of the Israeli Zionist government and the military says it all. For an allegedly intelligent group of people, this leadership is pure-d stupid because they can think and see only in the tunnel of their own other-destructive and self-destructive vision and UTTER SELFISHNESS. JEWS are not superior to everyone else, regardless of what the TALMUD says, and certainly that is an attitude that does not win friends and influence people.
And if you mean by "prevail[ing]," the statement of one of Israel's leaders: "If Israel goes down, EVERYBODY IS GOING DOWN!" ... that sounds more like a horribly disturbed junior high boy who is a closet TERRORIST.
GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED. You better believe it, Goldi May. And catch up on some Zionist history since the mid-1800's.
/cm
Blasphemer!
The True Faith is C of FSM! Besides, according to the Christian mythology, Israel will be destroyed.
Those who advocate imperialism, racism and Apartheid will simmer in an everlasting pot of marinara sauce for eternity, that includes the US Empire and its "mini me" Israel. Praise be to Pastafari!
Yep, Native Son starting to sound like the movie Dr. Strangelove more & more all the time. The Hopi Prophet long ago saw this land pretty much being burned off the face of the earth by man made fire. Even though the Hopi saw this thing they didn't go out to seek the worldly knowledge to invent such things as they would think anyone who would invent such things to be pretty stupid.
I have pondered if inventing such things are a perversion of Creator's atomic structure & perhaps an abomination before Creator?
The prophecy of the Book of Revelation talks about Creator will put into the minds of men to burn Mystery Babylon in one hour as Mystery Babylon is an utter abomination before Creator. That prophecy sounds very simular to the Hopi prophecy. Many prophetic researchers consider the U.S. to be Mystery Babylon. They may be right for all I know?
Wouldn't that be paradoxically strange is they were right with paradox being a very strange thing? That would mean Creator doesn't have any love for the U.S. at all, & that the U.S. is an utter abomination before Creator.
Even Jesus did not go about killing people like Religions go about killing people. All Jesus did was warn people. Creator loved this world enough to warn them.
Life is good. What an experience! It's always best to forgive.
Judge Shadow Dancer,
Hello Better Than, how are you? I stopped reading your posts because of the JUDGEMENT!, your RESENTMENTS. Like only YOU know pain?
I kept my white mouth shut as you JUDGED, but now you insult NATIVE SON, call him "stupid"-I read his post. It's NOT out of bounds.
Insult the country ENDLESSSLY you live in as you declare yourself superior as you do. But if you insult people on the threads, then wrap it in Jesus's teachings as you try to in this post, you are a hypocrite. And you defile Christ's words.
Goodbye Judge, if you did not "always convict" people left and right, you would not have to "always forgive" them. How complex is that? I'll help you,
It is NOT always best to forgive-It is better NOT to judge in the 1st place. that is what Jesus taught, have you ever heard of him? Shadow Dancer You are STUPID. You like being called Stupid Shadow Dancer? Or do you just like calling NS that ugly word? Tell me? Forgiving is up to Jesus and his Father ("Stupid"), check this, "As you judge, so shall you be judged."
Are you following the 2nd commandment in the words of your post?
Or do you take Sundays off? Are you following the 2nd commandment YES OR NO?
I've been attacked a lot on CD in the past, and I don't like to see it, it does nothing positive. You wanna do something positive?
protest4peace@hushmail.com August. San Francisco. No. More. War. Civil Disobedience, the time for talking is done. Come meet me in person and you can judge me. And I will look into your eyes and down into your soul and know you. I can do that. Always. It is a gift, I learned it while in fires you have never known. Quit feeling sorry for yourself. And start following the 2nd commandment if you are gonna wear a big cross, carry a bible, and stand on the corner with trumpets so all may know Your Glory.
Joe, must be good stuff, where can I get some?
I think you need to re-read Shadow's post. Imho, He did not sleight anyone but the makers of the atomic bomb. Native Americans do not live in our country, as I understand it. That's why they were able to put up casinos before anyone else. The Rez is considered a sovereign nation of sorts. I used to do work for the tribes and got to know some of their elders. They consider themselves an occupied people of a dying nation.
This is why we shouldn't support Israel: it's a repeat of the US Trail of Tears.
Your posts on Gaza were good.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
ThomasJefferson, ca va, erudite one? Thank you for your advice, it's the 1st sentence that got to me earlier. I thought SD did not like NS's anti-Christian soliloquy motivating him to the Dr. Stranglove comparison. As a devotee of Christ's words myself, I know they're not everyone's truths, as Christ knew they would not be as well. Too, SD chooses to share on CD his contempt for this country et al. Judgement. Then separates himself from US crimes because he is Native American? Anyone who lives in these borders, uses this electricity, pays taxes at the pump, the market, anywhere-is part of the machine, is helping kill. And that includes me.
No one gets a free pass. I don't recall too many black friends of mine saying they are not culpable for US crimes. We are all brothers now. In love and complicity too.
TJ, your posts are always good, and I read every one I see.
I tried to communicate with SD but he never replied to me
or maybe I would know him better.
Drop by anytime TJ, you can get some 'good stuff' from me!
But the ability to look into people's eyes I earned with
1,000 LSD trips and then dying. But I had young kids then.
So I rose from the dead so that I could raise them. And that
process sharpened an edge in me until now? I can see for miles
and miles and miles when I look into another's eyes.
protest4peace@hushmail.com SF, August, one day. No. more. war.
"Yep, Native Son [, it's] starting to sound like the movie Dr. Strangelove more & more "
Yeah, I had to read it twice also. I think he left out the word "it's" or at least a period. Run-on sentence. Changes the whole meaning no? But your big clue Joe, was that one Native American is not going to attack another Native American here on CD. A thousand years ago, they would have scalped each other to death over a minor insult, but not anymore. Now, their big enemy is the Federal Government. Something that strikes a real cord with me. Something we all come to realize sooner or later. Big anything is always bad.
Hopi, means Shadow Dancer is probably a member of the CRIT tribes, some of the most wealthy indians in the world. They own most of the land up and down the Colorado River and used to lease the land back to white farmers. Now their water rights are worth gold since the severe water shortages keep hitting the West.
Hey, "We all have to protect our bodily fluids, don't we?" - SAC Group Commander, Dr. StrangeLove
Cheers All,
TJ
Oh, ThomasJefferson I have one for you now! I was halfway through Torturing Democracy when I stopped to get high, but then to pray to Jesus Christ as is my wont and though warm and intimate and smile inducing as always I did not make it more than a moment before Christ grabbed me by the throat and said, hey Joe, I'll tell you where you're going with contrition in your hand, and twas to here and now to say I Love You Shadow Dancer, I was a jack-ass. I was wrong.
And from my heart those words flow.
It is not that I would not have died for SD at the time I wrote the post, I knew I was speaking to a great man, but I hesitate not to elucidate my feelings in real time and it slipped into cyberspace. I hate bullies with a passion and feel I was bullied on CD over a long period of time and never once did anyone tell my assailaint to lay off. So......that context is real too, and my initial perception was NS was being hassled.
You're kindness in taking time to help me understand SD is making me smile and respect you deeply. Not all intellectuals have corazon de alma, but some do use their minds to cultivate spiritual journey, hello TJ, and they are our teachers.
Again to Shadow Dancer I am sorry and My Love to you. You are my brother. It makes me laugh to think how you may percieve me, come to SF in August and I will honor you, protest4peace@hushmail.com 50 people in concert w/ a Chronicle photographer might be interesting. Now back to praying, then Torturing Democracy.
Peace ThomasJefferson, most peace of heart.
Like I said Joe,
You've got to get me some of that stuff..... I'm not kidding.. As you can tell, I need it!!!!! :-)
Sorry I picked on you hard in the past. But it was for your own growth bro.
Sorry about Obama. I did not want him to fail. He still does some good. But campaign contributions never lie.
And a lot of what you say about Nader is true. But he never knowingly took a dollar from the dark side. The man is poor by Republican Standards... and don't think they didn't try to buy him off after he killed the Corvair. Ralph has done more damage to Corporate Ivory Towers than any American in History. He caused the FDA (back when it actually provided food safety.)
Of course, you are right that he will never galvanize a party because he cannot compromise. But let's not take cheap shots at a fallen warrior for the little guy, O.K.
That was my only beef with you. And I mean what I say about the great posts you have started putting out.
Cheers Joe,
TJ
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Good Morning TJ,
Well.....as far as that stuff, are you a Californian? We have too much fun out here! I read and interact with the threads for two reasons, I enjoy it and I learn. Sources shared but mostly ideas-and they change me, most notably CD has hastened my critical perception of BO. Listening to other's concerns here.
I humbly share this. When I got attacked personally re Nader it turned it into more/less than it would have been. It went on forever and became vitriolic. I endeavor to be easy to communicate with but difficult to engage via aggression. Acquiescence, understanding or seeing other's point's of view are discarded in arguments and fights.
Golden Mean has touched my heart, one or two others, re communicating on CD, pointed to the Wisdom of Love, foolishness of anger.
(Once my most vituperative hassler disappeared a few weeks ago, I was able to read Ralph's articles without having my character flayed on his threads before I even got to them. And from my heart I've praised them since then-it came naturally. The qualified exception was RN's article on Corporate Liability, and I did, carefully, question investing in what he criticizes. But I recall saying he was a good man, praising him, just gently questioning one aspect of his world. And no one minded, at least that spoke up that I recall.
As I look for BO's descent, with the gloves off, I'm now focused on looking for the good in RN, you guys were right about BO, maybe RN too. Shadow Dancer a case in point, I'm quick to admit a mistake and change, actually I'm always seeking to. Except on days I'm perfect? To introspection and change!
Best ThomasJefferson, my best to you.
"Israel is self-destructing."
Yes, it sure is. I wouldn't give it more than 3,000-5,000 years max. If that. What a funny thing to say.
"(where the hell did they get all that money anyway?"
I believe the technical term is "work."
"Anybody else getting very tired of Israel, and its shenanigans?"
No, not really. A few uninformed, uneducated malcontents maybe, but no one people respect or pay attention to. But nearly everyone who believes in human rights, women's rights, property rights, gay rights, the rule of law, and is against imperialism is solidly on their side. Note that not a single nation in the world supports the anti-semites demand that Israel be boycotted, but virtually every one continues to support the blockade of Palestine. Even the Arab Muslim nations such as Egypt.
I find the way the anti-semites just make up facts very amusing. Sad and pathetic, but amusing. The reality is that Israel is doing very well, extremely so, has defeated all of her enemies, and is in an excellent position. No real threats at all on the horizon, despite a lot of political posturing and red herrings. A lot of words and hot air, but words don't count for anything. Sure, there are problems, but when haven't there been problems? But nothing compared to what the Jews have overcome in the past, and certainly nothing that could threaten the existence of Israel.
"The reality is that Israel is doing very well, extremely so..."
I suppose this is why they're practicing a doomsday scenario. How about if they take a time out for a day and practice a World Peace scenario? Shucks, I'd be happy if they tried one hour, even 5 minutes.
Probably the most attractive thing for most people posting on CD is the anonymity.
You can right just about anything you wish, and with a few exceptions, the readers have the choice to "read or not to read"---.
Your posting, under the pseudonym of "Mikep", I found particularly interesting since it shows a certain 'intelligence', yet it also reveals a very well defined 'indoctrination' in the 'Zionist' mindset, propaganda, and bias.
You also speak of the "Jews' overcoming 'problems' then use the term "Jew" interlacing it with Israel.
Your lack of factual information is directly reflected by the information you seem to dispatch, but you are far from factually informed---and I believe it was the Profit Mohammad who is credited with stating "Ignorance is a steep hill with many perilous rocks at the bottom"--- (not verified with citations*)
You will of course share with the readers the "facts" that the "anti Semites" make up,(your words) and counter those with "citations" or with a *disclosure for the lack thereof.
So here are some FACTS for you to consider, hopefully you may learn something from these citations---and in doing so show the 'world' that ignorance is a "treatable condition", and the prescription is "information based upon facts". I'll be your "Medicine Man".
1. Flavius Josephus wrote extensively on the Roman war with the Jews---you might wish to read his translations. (the Jews lost it, and since the Romans could not tolerate the breaking of three treaties, they pillaged Jerusalem and expelled the Jews from their capital---the Jews lost their homeland for 1940+ years, and the only reason they did---'return'---was the United States and the UN.---the only reason----"Jehovah did not 'come to the rescue' in '79AD' and the Romans survived for some time after the defeat of the Jews. In addition, the USA alone is willing to 'admit' to more than 10 billion in 'aid' annually to Israel----while it remains to me an amazing fact that the USA actually has "hungry/homeless children and elderly and should actually use that money for domestic programs.
2. The Jews, cannot prove their antiquity any farther back than the Hellenistic era, and they were not a very well defined threat to Alexander since they have very little notes mentioned about them by his historians.
The Egyptians do not mention them, the Persians do not mention them, nor do any other historical documents----not written by the Jews themselves in the form of The Mosaic, or Talmudic texts. If one takes those documents at face value, then the Jews have an extremely blood thirsty history----and if taken literally that alone should keep them from enjoying "nation hood status" ---'those people' are very dangerous. The only reason they did not 'out kill the Nazis' is most likely due to the technological variances and nothing else----so its a good thing they didn't have gun powder until recently---ya know. And since they now have modern weapons---including 'Nucs'--it appears from their recent behavior that they are working very hard to 'catch up to or top the Nazis'----or better yet, the Christian/Europeans---who are directly responsible for the deaths as many as 50 million- 200 million inhabitants of the Americas and other "corners of the earth".
3. If even in the dullest if intellectual circles it is perfectly acceptable to displace one people (the Palestinians) in favor of giving the same territory to another people (the Jews/Israel) based on fictional (the Bible)rights to occupation, written by the usurpers and only partially accepted by the main allies of the usurpers (the USA) who have a very bad reputation in regards to 'displacement geography', and 'illegal occupation',as well as double standards, lies, etc---(actually the Americans make the Jews seem like 'rank amatures', but that is another story).
4. If however, you do agree upon the doctrine that Israel has 'legal' title to its presently illegally and very violently occupied territories: based on the Old Testament and the current propaganda, then the same logic would apply to your "home" here in the USA. If this be the case, I will be most happy to help you contact the Native American tribe (if they survived) who once occupied your "land"----and you can give it back to them.
5. If you do reply in the positive to no. 4 above, please accept your new membership in the '12 decent americans organization' and we can call them "the 13 decent Americans organization'--------------------
6. I will not be betting any money on you taking no.5, but will be happy to bet any fool out there who wants to bet on you-------
If ignorance is 'bliss' then you must be one of the most 'blissful" out there, and typically American, you would not want to "piss on your bliss" with something so mundane as 'facts'--------------------
Good Luck, you rally need it.
Native Son, hello, you stated re Jews "the Persians do not mention them," maybe I did not understand, but I thought Shah Abbas whose rule ended in 1629 made Jews wear "badges on their clothing and distinctive headgear," that thay were persecuted and forced underground. And, that following his rule this practice ended and Jews were allowed to practice their religion once again.
Of course this would reguire the Persians, "mention them," ad infinitum....Did you mean another time period, or are my facts wrong? I'm no expert, and I know this may the case. ergo the clarification sought, thank you and hope you be well, joe.
The definition of antiquity in this case would be prior to the Roman era.
or roughly 3000 years ago.
To promote an antiquity that is not collaborated by outside documentation, i.e. "stories of those people told by their enemies"---is fraud.
The Christians still cannot reconcile the fact that the "Gospels" cannot pass the "hearsay rule" and be admitted as evidence in any US court (or anywhere else for that matter). The 'Gospels' were not even written by anyone who could have possibly been an eye witness. And since "jesus" left no writing behind--like you know a letter to 'dear ol dad' or 'a mother's day card for Mary'----there is absolutely no proof that jesus christ ever existed---except in the imaginations of some very dangerous people--who have left a very well documented history of their atrocities against humanity and just about every other life form on the planet.
Christian history is much bloodier than the Jewish history and it can be documented where the 'documented' Jewish atrocities are only in the past 60 years. Both use the same excuse for those atrocities----'God said we could do it---its in the book we wrote---so read it'
The Jews have gotten away with it---successfully now---for slightly over two thousand years and that was simply by accident. If Constantine had not accepted Christianity and promoted it as the 'state religion', the early Christians would have simply been lost with time and the Jews along with them.
The Christians were 'obligated' to maintain the 'jewish fraud' in order to legitimize themselves. The Jewish concept of 'the chosen ones' is in reality a very old tribal attempt at 'claiming exclusivity and unique origins'. An excellent example was the discovery of the Anthropologists, late in the 19th century that almost every single Native American tribal name could be translated to "the people".
Even though those 'people' of North Central and South America (with exception of the Inuits) all share a common DNA and Blood Type (all Native Americans fall within the "O" blood type group)------there is no exclusivity except in the mind of the believer.
The "jesus myth' is not unique, the ancients all had 'culture heroes' most of them were born of 'virgins' and or with similar 'mystical powers', and many of them were killed or 'decided' to 'depart' with the "return trip" sometime in the future---and 'any day now'---is a good time to expect the return/resurrection/reform/ so lets all jump a 'cloud' and go to heaven.
Oh, by the way, its always 'ok' to kill all of those 'non believers'---even the babies of the 'nonbelievers' or make slaves of them or steal all of their lands and possessions; 'cause that's the way it goes with humans'-----------
As soon as humanity outgrows the need for a "God" they will know true freedom, and there will be no stopping their progress toward a better life for all human beings and the other life forms on the planet; not just the believers----in heaven.
Humanity might wish to hurry up to accomplish this, they now have the weaponry to exterminate all of the 'non believers' and then when the "culture hero' does not return, the 'survivors' will have nothing left to eat while they suffer from Radiation sickness along with the other life forms on the planet. When that is the case, you might wish be on of the 'non believers'---your death will be much swifter than those 'believers'-----.
It most likely is simply a matter of time.
O-kay Native Son....so you meant Persians had not referred to the Jews prior to 3,000 years ago....? Thanks.....Now I think I'm right where I need to be re this data. Because you wanna talk about gospels hearsay rules and eyewitnesses 2,000 years ago.....to point out the sketchiness of "known," facts then. Which is logical. But to then jump a further 1,000 years back in time, 3,000 BC to clarity and relevance? Thank god I'm not educated, at least I have an excuse for losing the threadlines of logic here.
According to yourself NativeSon, "to promote an antiquity," you must have outside documentaion for what you said or you "are a FRAUD," okay. You promoted the antiquity that Persians did not mention Jews in their writings. I pressed you for a timeline. Okay 3,000 years ago then. Just curious, what is the documentation prior to that point supporting your initial statement regarding (non)references to Jews by Persians? I don't doubt it exists, I'm just curious to what you refer.
So, to a better mind I defer. But what documentation? You got me curious.
wow,
Great stuff. And so true. I saw a documentary on ancient papyri scrolls and Sumerian clay tablets, some pre-Christian and some pre-Hebrew, and the same Savior story was told over and over again, but by different faiths. As you said: Virgin Birth, Magic healing powers, Killed by enemies and then rose from the dead but with different names. It was almost a franchise operation throughout time and geography, just like Mcdonald's.
A big spurt of these occured 2,000 years ago with the appearance in the sky of "The Three Wisemen" which were documented by ancient Chinese? astronomers as three celestial objects that showed up prominently in the evening sky in the mideast. The prophesies foretold a Saviour would come; and boy were there a lot of applicants! Some "Banned from the Bible" books found at the Dead Sea spoke of Jesus's brothers who had the same supposed powers as he. Indeed there were many "Messiah's" walking around just like polititians do today, promising everybody what they wanted to hear.
The refined ability for Homo Sapiens to deceive his fellow man is absolutely astounding. Which is why the founding fathers were so against established religion getting mixed up in the government.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Great post, Native Son, Masterful.
I wish I could rebut some of it, but I can't. All I can do is point out the unpleasant reality that "might makes right." The problem is Tribes. The Clovis people, who Native Americans descended from, and the Palestinians became targets for the land they used to own. What's right and Wrong depends entirely on your tribal point of view. The Oil tribe wants domination in the middle east and they are going to get it. The MIC tribe wants eternal war and arms races and, so far they are getting it. The Israelis want nothing but money, so they are going to manufacture grave threats and wars to justify raping the US Treasury. "Another dangerous firecracker attack from teenagers in Gaza!"
The Bankster tribe? They want everybody mired in hopeless debt, homeless, destitute.
and Politicians from the political tribe? They all want to be King.
Reminds me of the Bruce Springstein? song:
Poor man wanna be rich,
Rich man wanna be King,
and King ain't satisfied till he rules everything...
Americans? They want the slice of Freedom that their forefathers had: Instead of plantation slaves, they have Industrial and Electronic slaves (which are pretty usesless things in the shadow of Robber Barons.) But the US taxpayer doesn't have a tribe. He thinks he does, but he doesn't.
We need a massive Progressive Tribe
The only answer my friends is education followed by mass civil disobedience. But, until everybody's homeless that's not likely to happen. Stand by......
Tj
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
"I believe the technical term is work."
Agreed, by the US taxpayer.
The CIA gives Israel 10 years, max.
And where does Israel get the money? Let's start with $15 million U.S. tax dollars per DAY in direct aid and "loan" guarantees (the "loans" are never repaid) to Israel.
No one who cares about human rights and is against imperialism supports the terrorist regime called Israel. The Boycott, Divest, and Sanction movement is growing internationally by leaps and bounds. Buy nothing from Israel, the apartheid nation! (Is it any surprise that Israel supported apartheid in South Africa?)
Egypt, renowned for torture and other human rights abuses, is paid handsomely by the U.S. to be Israel's sidekick and accomplice in the oppression of the Palestinians. Other Muslim nations, such as Saudi Arabia, also known for corruption and human rights abuses, are also paid off by the U.S. to look the other way while Israel continues its ongoing theft of Palestinian land and water resources, and ongoing kidnapping, torture and murder of Palestinians.
In fact, one of the reasons the U.S. is hated in the Middle East is that the people resent our support of the dictators there whom we are helping to stay in power, against the wishes of the people of those countries.
By stealing so much Palestinian land, Israel has made a two-state solution impossible, and will end up with a one-state solution, with equal rights for Palestinians, who will soon outnumber the Jews. This will be the end of the "Jewish" state with special rights for Jews and subjugation and misery for the indigenous people of Palestine/Israel. It will be a glorious day for the whole world.
A good way to keep up with Israel's activities against the Palestinians is to read the website of the International Middle East Media Center, imemc.org.
Israel continues to fuel most of the problems of this world.
Don't be so modest. We are the big bully. Israel is our mean little sidekick.
Joe
lol
no, you're wrong
you are the big bully alright, but you are Israel's big bully
bought and owned.
Ariel Sharon said it a couple of years ago and I quote (in English, my Hebrew leaves a lot to wish for):
"don't worry about the Americans.
America rules the world, but we rule America.
and they know it"
if Israel says jump, you just say "how high"
pathetic, really, when one thinks about it.....
Along with its criminal enabler, the Empire, of course. How many billions extra weapons for Israel is Congress going to give?
How America can support such extreme people as the Israeli's is beyond my understanding. They are expansionists, practice ethnic cleansing, and are seemingly messianic just as are the extreme moslems. They are a terrorist state yet we support them. I firmly reject the beliefs in world dominion, religious or otherwise. The Israeli's will likely spark a nuclear exchange believing that yawah is on their side. Hurbis!
Israel is getting reading for their next Radical Expansion. The coming attack on Iran will cause retaliation-
To this israel will respond by pushing it's borders outwards, once again. This is The Big Plan. Expansion. Land. That is what they prepare for.
In the picture, the caption says Israel prepares for attack from Gaza. Pathetic Tripe. Did the Nazi's prepare for attack from Dachau?
Expansion. Land. They are getting ready to steal more of their neighbor's land-the formulae works so well-attack your neighbor, they defend themselves then they are occupied for Security Reasons. The Rockets.
Occupied people need to lay down and die.
Great insight Joe. I'll bet you're right.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
but hey, if you didn't want to participate, it's a great time for robberies............
I find it interesting that Israel is drilling with plans that are based on "attacks" from the very nations that Israel has attacked so ruthlessly over the years.
Guilty conscience, perhaps?
Note: "Where did they get the money?" I assume that is a rhetorical question. They get a guaranteed three billion plus of our tax money every year to use in any warlike way they wish.
Just ask Obama. He is now the surrogate run by AIPAC.
Minitrue: "I find it interesting that Israel is drilling with plans that are based on "attacks" from the very nations that Israel has attacked so ruthlessly over the years."
-----------------------
You should call yourself nanotrue or, better yet, zerutrue. why do you put attacks in quotation marks? Do you deny that Israel was, is and will be attaked from the day one of her existence.
Do you think that being part of this pack of Jews haters allow you to disregard truth and logic?
v.purto,
My best friends are Jews, and I love them; they are wonderful.
They, and I hate Israel. We believe that all support of that fascist state should end immediately. Of course we felt the same way about other religious fanatics who were ruining the world and bankrupting the US Treasury: The Shrub Administration.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
People here think the world would be better off without ZIONISTS most CDers love JEWS.
It is only the rabid materialistic ZIONISTS that habitually and purposefully equate Jews or Semetics with the outcast ZIONISTS, otherwise the ZIONIST lunacy and violence would have no "flag" to wrap itself in.
This is so sad and so tragic.
God help us.
And God help the Obama administration, Hillary Clinton and all the peace makers who are working to stop this insane dissent into Hell.
What is it about the Middle East that drives people to commit suicide? (rhetorical...but I don't understand it.)
Anybody else getting very tired of Israel, and its shenanigans? The current leaders of Israel are such ass-holes, it's very hard not to paint all Jews with the same brush. That's probably a little latent anti-Semitism coming out. Our leaders are just as bad.
"it's very hard not to paint all Jews with the same brush. That's probably a little latent anti-Semitism coming out. "
I don't feel that way. Religious Jews are as crazy as any other religious types. The problem here is Zionism. The other problem is that Jews have placed themselves in a category like no other where they conflate religion, with ethnicity, with nationalism, with a mythological biblical history. Of course, not everyone feels this way. Plenty of Jews reject Israel. Plenty of others are not religious, share no common language, culture, or ancestry with other "Jews", yet still call themselves "Jewish". i.e. "the Jewish People".
Now we're supposed to pretend that Jews as a vast majority don't support Israel.
This is called avoiding responsibility. Jews, as a whole, have supported Israel through the worse atrocities.
Shameless.
Read "John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt: The Israel Lobby".
Many self proclaimed "Jews" obviously do support Israel. But many others don't. How it breaks down statistically I don't know. Also, I'm sure you would acknowledge that among "Jews" there are various degrees of support for Israel, from those who don't support the existence of Israel (a clear minority), those who didn't support it's founding but now support it's existence, to those who are simply highly critical of their policies towards their neighbors.
Personally, I reject the concept of a "Jewish State" as racist (which is entirely bizarre as Jews are in NO way a "race") and support a single state solution. Surely the Palestinians have a stronger claim to the "right of return" than Zionists.
Here's my problem with the Jewish community. I know what a religious Jew is. But what is this mythical "Jewish People"? Can anyone define what that means?
OK - Jews aren't a race, so let's just say the Jewish State is discriminatory and biggoted.
Jews have systematically destroyed our political system by making sure that anyone with integrity isn't elected.
They have illegally and immorally invaded Palestine, and engage in oppression and genocide.
They have destroyed careers of honest people who support the rights of the oppressed.
There's no ducking responsibility now.
if youre responding to my posting.. my post was simply to refute the above comment. to say none.. means there is no hope of anything changing.. that no one has any prayer of ownership/ responsibility.
I cite 2 people.. because that is what I can with assurance, comment on. I could say i know hundreds, or many. or anything.. but I do not * know* with the assurance of what a lawyer could prove..
but it does demonstrate that it is possible. I will guess that other people may also know jewish people who do not hold with the majority opinion.
be well
TeriD,
Thanks for your response. Shall we say that based on the data available, one Jew knows of two Jews who reject Israel? Or we need at least 29 responses to draw a conclusion? Even if the rest of the responses are negative then statistically about 7% of the jews reject Israel. Does it sound right? If TeriD rejects Israel too, then it will even be close to 10%. So based on this scientific study!! we should not be looking forward to the Jews to solve this problem all by themselves,provided there is a solution, even if that 10% becomes vocal. Any statistician in the audience?
"Plenty of Jews reject Israel".
Have never seen one. Have you?
well.. my nephews, for 2.. who at 13.. even commented ( after bar mitzvah's).. israel shouldnt even be a state... granted.. they are pretty savvy and smart...
but still.. there are some out there who are capable of seeing the bigger truths...
be well
I'm sorry, but the first thought that came to my mind is that quote from Dana Carvey's Church Lady . . . "Well, isn't that special!"
My second thought is, may Goddess help us all.
Tongue in cheek though it is, I hope someone can explain why "goddess" is any less sexist than "god".
The drill makes it seem real!
It brings everybody into the same line of thinking!
Thinking the threat is real, whether it is or not.
Everybody participates!
Israelis live in a garrison state that is spiraling ever deeper into survival anxiety. Hysteria lies just below the surface.
What Jews are emigrating to Israel today? Only the "jihadi Jews". Those who want peace and do not care to scramble into shelters on a moment's notice, are leaving. What sane person would want to live this way? The option of peaceful co-existence with the Arabs no longer exists in the wake of the brutal attack on Gaza.
The Israelis have created a ghetto mentality. Individuals who retain their sanity should get out while the getting is good before they succumb to the mental contagion.
Israel is self-destructing.
Good riddance.
the state that calls itself "israel" is a bloodclot in humanity's heart, and a soul-devouring cancerous tumour in the spiritual body of the jewish people, in a way similar to another false messiah, sabbatai zvi...
..although almost all nation states and international corporations can be seen as similar bloodclots in the human body or circulation system, this one is right in the heart.
"spiritual body of the jewish people"
?????????????????????????????????????
"spiritual body of the Aryan people"
??!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
"spiritual body of the Catholic people"
!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!
It's Israel's "largest-ever defence drill," but it has "no special significance," we are told by Israel.
I suppose it's one of those things Israelis love to do every once in a while -- maybe like giving one's car a good wash every so often?
I am surprised that Israel would go to such trouble and expense (where the hell did they get all that money anyway?)
to "protect themselves" against the attack of those they have stolen and cheated so much from.
After all. If you "really" are "the chosen ones" why would you worry at all. Wouldn't "God" "Bid Daddy", the "Holy Ghost" just place a "magic shield" around the whole lot of them, you know, like a "Holy Force Field" to keep them safe?
Or, perhaps the "chosen ones" lack the faith of their convictions and live in fear that the 'opposition' will finally realize that the "chosen ones' are simply a "nation of liars, thieves, cheats and bullies and cowards' who deserve little in the way of respect, and have worked very hard for their own extermination.
"Oh ye of little faith"
Just a thought.
Good Luck Israel, you really need it.
On a personal level; I would worry about a "God" that could create the entire universe in just six days, and all of the life on earth, and all of that 'stuff ' out there in the universe that we know about (and even the 'stuff' we don't know about)----and THEN, that GOD need so much help from so many human beings.
I think it was George Carlin who said: "If God is so great, why does he always need money from us?"
I know Native Son that you know where Israel gets the money for these stupid paranoid games - The US taxpayer! Israel is largest recipient of US aid in the world.
America bails out its client states as well as its failed corporate elite.
agreed. but then it is always the oppressors tendency to villianize the victim..
someday we may learn to play nicely with others. unfortunately there is not a global " time-out chair".. many countries might benefit from a few rounds of silent seating;)
and also agreed on feeling compelled to implement God's will. IMHO it very much denotes an absolute lack of faith in their God and what God wants. I think that if there were true faith.. one would put down arms and walk away.. and trust that God will place the item in their hands. The situation reminds me of the old smother's brothers.. dad always liked you best.. yada yada... and trying to prove who is the favoured son.. by winning the cherished prize.. :)
and I again go back to another posting comment.. if Israel had ever reached out a hand in gratitude, back in the early days.. they may have had a very different landscape than the one they have created for themselves... where they are an island amidst a sea of animosity..
be well
Perhaps Israelis are the 'Chosen Ones'. And really 'God' will protect them. America is 'Big Daddy' and the 'Holy Ghost'. Our Military Support and Aid is their 'Magic Shield'. They don't even need Faith. We've moved past 'Faith' and on to 'Hope'. Oh...and the 'Hope For Change'.
Nader 2012!!!
excellent reasoning native son.............i like it. made me laugh.....
and i also wonder, how these medics etc are going to respond if everyone is supposed to run into shelters...........do the medics not get to do that?