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Israel's Lieberman Rules out Return to '67 Borders
JERUSALEM - Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman on Sunday ruled out a return to Israel's 1967 borders, as its largely right-wing cabinet rebuffed calls to remove Jewish settlements built on Palestinian land.
"A return to the borders of '67 today, as we are being pressured to do, would not end the conflict, would not guarantee peace or security," Lieberman told reporters ahead of a government meeting.
Israel's Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, seen here, has ruled out a return to Israel's borders of before the 1967 war, saying it would not end the decades-long Israeli-Palestinian conflict. (photo: AFP) "It would simply move the conflict to within the '67 borders," he said, referring to Israel, as the cabinet met for the first time since Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's talks with US President Barack Obama in Washington.
During his trip, the hawkish Israeli premier was told repeatedly by the administration and Congressional leaders that the Jewish state must stop settlement activity in the occupied West Bank, one of the main stumbling blocks in the halting Middle East peace process.
But on Sunday, most ministers in the right-leaning cabinet criticised the idea of dismantling any settlements, including so-called outposts -- those the Israeli government itself considers illegal.
Lieberman said that dismantling the outposts should come in the framework of the international 2003 "roadmap" for Middle East peace, a step-by-step plan that foresees the creation of a Palestinian state.
Under its first phase, Israel committed to removing outposts and the Palestinians undertook to halt violence.
But Lieberman, known for controversial statements, said the plan may have to be re-examined.
"Removing outposts should be part of an overall policy and cannot be patchwork," Lieberman said, referring to Israeli settlements in the West Bank that were not authorised by the Israeli government.
"The correct outline is the roadmap, which we might have to re-adopt on all its stages," he said. "And if it is necessary within the framework of the roadmap to remove outposts, we will do so."
His position was largely echoed by other ministers in Netanyahu's hardline cabinet that was sworn in on March 31.
"We shouldn't accept diktats and we shouldn't dismantle (settlement) outposts," said Interior Minister Eli Yishai of the ultra-Orthodox Shas party.
"I don't see any reason to dismantle outposts before we decide on a unified policy. Nevertheless we should not get into a clash with the Americans."
Defence Minister Ehud Barak, whose Labour party is the most liberal member of the Netanyahu cabinet, backed the idea of removing outposts, but spoke of 22 such structures -- a number several times lower than that of watchdog groups.
"We should deal with the remaining 22 (outposts) in a responsible and correct way," Barak said. "First by talking and if that doesn't work then unilaterally."
Under the "roadmap" plan, Israel undertook to dismantle all outposts in the West Bank constructed after March 2001. An Israeli commission later determined there were 26 such structures.
The Peace Now anti-settlement group, however, says that more than 50 outposts were put up since March 2001 and that at present the West Bank has more than 100 outposts.
The international community considers all Israeli settlements in the West Bank illegal.
- Posted in
111 Comments so far
Show AllWow, what a surprise. One of the most racist, bloodthirsty and callous people on the planet wants to steal more land?
I see this is from AFP, let's see if the story makes the US MSM.
The story will never get beyond Common Dreams in America.
He's right, though. Withdrawing to the 67 border will not result in peace. The Arabs want victory in the form of a 'return' ie transforming Israel into an Arab country demographically.
Remember the Palestinian protest over Sharon's unilateral withdrawal from Gaza? They were ticked b/c the Palis couldn't negiotiate any political victories. The Israelis just left.
What do you propose to do with the Palestinains (whom you refer to as "Arabs") who outnumber the Zionists? So far, you have been clearing them and killing them. What is the final solution for the Palestinians? It seems you will have to kill all of them like Liebermann has advocated. What is the most efficient and rational way to do this?
Wow, that was low.
My attitude is simple. I would support Palestinian peace if it was a sincere desire for peace and not some bait and switch approach to reversing Israel's existence. That is to say, one state for Jews and one state for Arabs. Not arab 'return' or economic warfare on Israel to pressure it into submission.
Honestly, I am a fan of the three state solution. That is, Gaza goes back to Egypt. Israel and Jordan split the West Bank and portions of Israel based on demographics. This 'Palestinian' game has gone on long enough. Arabs are Arabs, and Palestinians are an invention as a means of pressuring Israel. Honest Arabs even admit this.
So, since I opened up, you recipricate. Why do you cover for Arab strategy towards its long term goal of eliminating Israel?
You know Mossad, If Israel gets all of Judea, they will still find more enmies to expand their land theft. The problem with Israel today is that it is ruled by Khazars, not Jews. LIEberman is a prime example of a Khazar with not a drop of Jewish blood in his veins.
Israel will find every possible way to not stop fighting,m threatening, murdering, stealing, and committing apartheid. That us their nature and that will never change.
That is their nature. They are the definition of Hypocrisy.
You employ many thinking errors. Read this please. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion
All things that the Arabs and Jews do in this conflict has a functional reason. You make many passionate assertions that simply lack any credibility. Statements like "that is their nature" is by far the most racist comment I have ever seen on common dreams. B/c ur implying they are subject to an inherent 'nature' that you are not. The Jews and the Arabs will live in peace when both sides want peace. And as long as the Arabs want victory, there can be no peace.
And you are spouting facts? Isn't this prick LIEbernman a Russian born zionist? Isn't the Khazars from that region? I am willing to bet he has NO jewish blood in his veins.
Now you blame the arabs for the zionists stealing their land? You are rich! you zionist pricks have made it an art to blame the victim for your own atrocities!
as long as the arabs(sic) want victory???!!!
What are Jews doing in Palestine anyway, especially in a Jewish State? Why shouldn't 'Arabs' want this 'State' to go away? Is your assumption that Israel has a right to exist a 'thinking error'? I wonder.
George Markley "What are Jews doing in Palestine anyway, especially in a Jewish State? Why shouldn't 'Arabs' want this 'State' to go away?"
On the same racist token, one might say: What are Arabs doing in Judea anyway, aren't they belong to 'Arabia'? Jews should be in Judea, and Arabs in Arabia.
Now seriously, both Jews and Arabs have rights and historical linkage to the land. Here is a short summary of the conflict:
- Before the first Zionist congress in 1897, 1/4 of the population of Palestine was Jewish.
- Between 1897 and 1947, many Jews legally immigrated to Palestine, and many Arabs also immigrated to Palestine (A smaller number though).
- By 1947, the percentage of Jews has increased to 1/3 of the people.
- In 1947 the UN decide to divide Palestine to a Jewish state and an Arab state. The Jewish yeshuv accepted, the Arabs rejected UN resolution 181, and went to a war (and lost).
These whack-a-mole comments have been discredited so many times, you'd think they wouldn't appear any more.
Israel is nothing but an immoral and illegal invasion, and I have no problem with those who wish to resist the genocidal invaders. The entire world as a whole would be better off if Zionism had never existed.
If you think anything I said is wrong, please bring evidence. A real evidence.
Show me proof that in 1897 the Jews were not ~¼ of Palestine’s population.
Show me proof that in 1947 the Jews were not ~1/3 the Palestinian population.
Show me proof that in 1947 the Arab league accepted UN resolution 181.
Show proof that the Arab league did not initiated a war of annihilation against the Jews of Palestine in 1948.
Proof. I’m sure the concept if foreign to the likes of you. But you can Google it.
My words had not been discredited by any evidence but empty swear words and name calling, Wanderer.
It's hard to talk peace with the people who stole your country. Ask any Native American.
Who stole the country?
Jews immigrated legally to Israel / Palestine (the land of their ancestors) and bought land from Arabs who put "for sale" signs.
Then in 1948, after rejecting UN resolution 181, the Arabs went to a war of annihilation against the Jews of Palestine, and lost. That’s why they lost land.
[Jews immigrated legally to Israel / Palestine (the land of their ancestors) and bought land from Arabs who put "for sale" signs.]
Just like those good germans who bought land in Germany when the Jews put 'for sale' signs on their property back in 1935...
Not exactly.
Shlomo Gravetz of the Jewish National Fund says: "Throughout the history of land reclamation by Jews in Eretz Yisrael, the Arabs have always claimed that the Jews were throwing them off their land. In 1932 the High Commissioner appointed the Bentwich Committee to investigate these claims, and out of 700 purchases of Arab property, the committee did not find one case in which the Jews had acted immorally."
http://www.palestinefacts.org/
pf_early_palestine_zionists_land.php
When the foxes were asked to hold an enquiry into who broke into the chicken coop, they did their work dilagently but found no evidence that the foxes acted in any way immorally.
I take it you mean 1952?
Letto's got you, I'm afraid. Most of the land in Palestine was owned by absentee land owners. The Arabs who lived on this land were sharecroppers. These sharecroppers were evicted when the absentee landowners sold their land to Zionist settlers. Not exactly land theft, in fact not even close.
Also, it is not even on Letto to prove the negative. It is on you to prove the positive. Care to try?
How lovely, defending Lieberman and genocidal policies
You have not answered my question: how do you propose do take care of the Palestinian Problem? What is the most efficient method for extermination? Lieberman wants to exterminate every last one of them.
Nice try by both putting words in my mouth and giving me a false dilemma. I have already told you the solution I support. Gaza goes back to Egypt, Israel and Jordan split the West Bank and some parts of Israel based on demographics. The 'Palestinians' should be freed from their camps and allowed to assimilate into their respective Arab countries.
Now, you answer my question.
You have no question.
Yeah - if what you say is true WHY DO ZIONISTS OPPOSE THE RIGHT OF RETURN? Because they, just like the rest of us, know that this massive land thievery was overt and apparent.
Israel is an immoral, genocidal, illegal invasion and nothing more or less. The oppressed have every right to resist the invaders.
Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that the Arab countries also refuse to accept the right of return to the Jews who were expelled from Arab controlled land.
Saturnalia “I take it you mean 1952?”
No, read my comment again. I was talking about events before 1948.
In 1948 all cards were off the table when the Arabs started a war of annihilations against the Jews and lost. As a result of the 1948's war, there was land stealing by both sided. (Though the number of Jews expelled and the property they left behind was slightly larger)
Ahhh, that's an interesting rhetorical trick. I think I was clear enough that I was talking about the post-48 period when talking about how the Israeli's emulated Hitler's tactic of stripping assets from the Palistinians.
Also, just because other countries pulled the same stupid stunts by stripping land/property/wealth/lives from one minority or another doesn't justify anyone else doing the same thing. During '48-49 far more people were killed, robbed and forced to emigrate when India and Pakistan were formed.
If the Zionists didn't steal, then why do they have such a problem with the right of return?
It's all so sleazy - it's the old, "What are you going to believe - me or your lying eyes?" Disgusting.
Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that the Arab countries also refuse to accept the right of return to the Jews who were expelled from Arab controlled land.
A non-answer.
Irrelevant.
Since you don't have a pertinent answer, then the obvious answer stands - Israel stole the land.
You said Israel is an evil entity that shouldn't exist because Israel did XYZ.
I showed you that many Arab countries did XYZ.
The relevancy is that if Israel should not exist than also all these Arab countries should not be permitted to exist
The relevancy is: One rule to all.
I suggest you research the demographic profile of the majority of Israelis today, they are Sephardim. A majority of them are descendants of or are those who were expelled from various North African and Middle Eastern countries such as Morocco, Libya, Syria, Iran, etc. (after being robbed of their property, possessions, & money by the respective governments on their out, of course). Not coincidentally, their arrival heralded the rise of Likud to power & the hardening of Israeli attitudes towards Arabs...as they had been persecuted by them for nothing that they had directly done, but instead as a form of collective punishment for the mere existence of Israel. Avigdor Lieberman, while he is Ashkenazi, speaks to them as well newly arrived immigrants from the former Soviet Union.
The Zionists come out of the woodwork. Dr. Schlomo Sand says what you say is complete BS.
Let us not stray from the point: Lieberman, he has called for the elimination of the Palestinian people. What is the best way to take care of the Problem? What is the final solution for the Palestinians? Slow piecemeal extermination or maybe it would be better to use a more efficient method? What does Lieberman want?
Schlomo Sand is merely one academic with a highly suspect theory that you have desperately latched on to for the purposes of this debate. His work is as valid as a oil company's scientist's is on global warming.
Then, of course, you fail to address the main point of my post, the majority of present Israelis are those of Middle Eastern and North African descent, and who's families had lived those various places for many generations (for instance, the cave dwelling Jews of Libya, expelled in 1970, had been there since 400 AD). Their persecution began once Israel came into being, leading to expulsions. Unlike the Ashkenazim, they really have no place to go & hate the Arabs with a passion, since they persecuted them, their parents and grandparents. They are thus a ready audience for Lieberman and helped propel him to where he is today. What Lieberman wants is power, pure and simple, and is playing a similar card to attain it that Slobodan Milosevic did in 1991.
thanks for dispelling the Zionist propaganda, however these folks are programed to divert from the core issue with their mythological mumbo-jumbo. Rather than get bogged down with the details of their myths, we need to call them on their racist callous attitudes. Lieberman has called for the extermination of the Palestinian people and they come out of the woodwork to defend him. Wow, talk about "Beyond Chutzpah"
Funny that you blame others for diversions. You are a master of diversions, socialist.
I once said that Jews have historical linkage to Palestine / Israel. Your reply: Anyone who says such is a racist rightwing who support killing of woman and children. (I don’t recall all your swear words, but they were colorful)
In another case, I said that the situation in Gaza is not "occupation", but a blockade, since there are no Israeli troops inside Gaza. Your reply: (Yea, you’ve guessed it right)"Anyone who says such is a racist who support killing of woman and children."
By the way, each time I’ve asked you to provide proof that I support the killing of woman and children, you, socialist, kept silence. And someone named Wanderer soon showed up to created a diversion. (In the form of swearing)
Wanderer – if you can read this, please reply in a different thread. I want socialist to reply to my question without diversion.
Socialist, can provide a proof that I support the killing of woman and children?
I think you nailed it. He is a coward. He still answered responded to my challenge even though I accepted his.
Gimme a break you wannabe macho killers;
I ask you again how will you take care of the Palestinian Problem tough guys?
Are you lilly livered weaklings willing to help out Lieberman in his heroic extermination program? Or, quite typically, you will let others do it for you?
I have answered your question twice on my proposed solution. Further, I cannot find a quote in which Lieberman says he wants to exterminate the Palesinian people. I have found a quote where he stated he wanted Arab Israelis to swear loyalty to Israel. I have found a quote where he stated he wants Arab population centers in Israel to be turned over into a Palestinian state. I even found a nasty quote, the closest to your claim, where he said he wished Gaza would be nuked.
But alas, no quote saying he wanted the extermination of the Palestinian people. Your strategy of putting supporters of Israel on the defensive appears to have a very short shelf life.
Now answer my question. Why do you lie to cover up the Arabs long term goal of reversing Israel's founding?
Lieberman takes genocidal policies as far as he can, and you "...cannot find a quote in which Lieberman says he wants to exterminate the Palesinian (sic) people."
It would be the equivalent of a KKK sympathizer asking to us to prove there's a quote from the Grand Wizard of the KKK that he was a racist.
Are we supposed to "prove" something that is right before our eyes.
Zionism is based in bigotry and hate, and does a good job of spreading that throughout the world. No quote needed.
Socialist asserted that Lieberman SAID he wanted to exterminate the Palestinian people. If Lieberman did not SAY that, then Socialist is a liar. Remember, it is on him to prove the positive, not on me to prove the negative.
[Egyptians have been outraged to read in their newspapers that Lieberman has talked of drowning Palestinians in the Dead Sea or executing Israeli Palestinians who talked to Hamas. [...] I covered the bloodbath of Bosnia in the early Nineties and I can identify Lieberman's language – of executions, of drownings, of hell and loyalty oaths – with the language of Messrs Mladic and Karadzic and Milosevic.]
From
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-avigdor-lieberman-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-happen-to-the-middle-east-1647370.html
["We must continue to fight Hamas just like the United States did with the Japanese in World War II," Lieberman added.
According to reports in Israeli media, he said the US nuclear strikes had rendered an "occupation of the country … unnecessary."
From
http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&Do=&ID=34924
But, I couldn't find a source that actually had a quote from him saying exactly that. Lots of quotes for him telling the Egyptian president to go to the winds (hell), and that he argues that Egypt is drooling over the idea of deploying more troops to the Sinai...
Then we agree that Socialist is a liar. Also the quote about drowning Palis was in reference to prisoners. Not justifying it, just point out that socialist, again, lied.
Actually, the quote about using nukes against Gaza is in the BBC and the Jerusalem Post. A.L. advocated fighting the Palistinians like the yanks fought the Japanese, that does mean few, if any, prisoners and finishing the war with an atomic bombardment. You might not call that genocide, but I would. So, Socialist is not a liar. So, Mossad, are you in favour of such a war? Nuking all your enemies might be a bit cathartic, but in the end you'd have to use enough nukes that you'd be dead from the radioactive fallout. Not to mention the rather negative consequences using nukes would bring.
Wow, do you ever need to brush up on your reading comprehension. If socialist asserted that Lieberman SAID that he wants to exterminate the Palestinians, and if he did not say that, socialist is in fact a liar.
Your explanation of reading into another of Lieberman's statements via subjective intepretation does not substantiate a quote. Especially since the US did not 'exterminate the Japanese'.
Calling someone a coward - astounding coming from a Zionist.
Wanderer, you can add to your list that I call you anti-semite.
That's because you said that most Jews always, throughout history, always wanted wars.
Never said it and you know it.
But if by anti-Semite you mean someone who believes in the respect and dignity of the Palestinian people, who opposes immoral and genocidal oppression, who is against illegal invasions...
then by all means, you can call me anything you want.
Wanderer "Never said it and you know it."
You clam you never said that most Jews, always, throughout history, always wanted wars?
How about here?
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/05/11#comment-1201566
Wanderer May 12th, 2009 9:24 am
There's no majority of people in Israel that want peace. Never have been.
There's no majority of Jews in general that want peace. Never have been.
That's the reality starting point here...
oharu9 "Pack your bags and forget the illegal nation of Israel, chum. There has been a group of troublemakers kicking around since way before the Bible was actually written."
Thank you for supporting the Zionist cause by implying that the Israelis have historical linkage to Israel since way before the Bible was written.
Some people in this forum deny such a linkage. As a pro-Israeli, I felt I wanted to thank you for your comment.
Nice try, don't evade the question: Lieberman has called for the extermination of the Palestinian people. Since you support him, tell us exactly how you will exterminate them.