Thanks for the invitation, Seventhson....I will do so a little later!

I am thinking of a whole article, however, i will post a comment here....

Sioux, Thank you. I will write to you.

Yes, pluto is in leo...And what you are saying is true. And i am dramatic as well.

A sag. sun i might add!

First let me say, I may be an atheist and you are spiritual or whatever term you would prefer, but I suspect we are both Humanists. In other words, though our beliefs are different, at least they lead us to the same conclusion, which is that what is important is the earthly need for peaceful co-existence.

"can you truthfully say that what you are opposing is the magnificent possibility of a Divine Order"

Yes.

Of course, ANYTHING is possible. Therefore I CAN"T be an atheist, right? I must be an agnostic. Well, I disagree. It is just as POSSIBLE that Donald Trump controls the entire universe as it is that there is a "divine order" (and I assume you don't mean the scientific method of discovering order in nature). However, no one is expected to seriously believe that Trump is God. You are allowed to reject that belief, after all, it's completely ridiculous. But since all these religious, superstitious, mystical or spiritual claims ALL lack evidence to support them - all things being equal - I reject them all. I reject these beliefs not because of the history that surrounds them, not because of the mindset of followers, or the principles of the particular religion (although I easily could) but simply because they are all irrational claims drawn out of thin air. L. Ron Hubbard showed exactly how easy it is to create a mythology and get people to believe it.

I reject the concept of faith. I want proof. I know I'll never get it. In the objective world of wars, wmd's, and torture, it is extremely dangerous to believe anything on faith. My existence here on earth is defined by my knowledge and experience, I'm happy with that. I'm already completely awestruck just to be alive. Life is a beautiful mystery. It doesn't need to be anything more than that.

Science seeks only to explain what it can. It admits that it does not understand the universe. Scientific fact is always a best guess based on observable and predictable results. The jury is always out on science. Every year there are new scientific ideas that replace old ones. I would argue that science is little more than an exploration of the world we live in a manner as objective as human beings are capable of. It demands results that can be examined by a people of any religion. In no way should science limit our sense of wonder. If anything it should remind us of how very little we know.

Religious or mystical systems of belief try to do the exact opposite. They are literally defined by their attempts to define what cannot be.

"why limit the Limitless"

I'm not.

I'm not the one trying to codify or explain the unexplainable. I'm the one doing the exact opposite, so I really don't understand your point.

Siouxrose -

I've noticed you make a huge contribution to this site, and I've enjoyed reading your pov's for a couple of years now. I just think you're too hidden here, that a blog would open up more space for you and widen your influence.

Those two giant lobsters are green, by the way. I forgot to mention that.

I'm opposed to Guy-in-the-Sky theology, but I do believe in a certain kind of "divinity", not a theological kind outside ourselves, but a spiritual attitude of respect, even reverence for our brothers and sisters and the Earth, our mother. I'm moving the locus - away from the mountaintop (nasty volcano god removed from nature) into our heart, where it belongs, which can reconnect us with nature and each other in a more creative, less destructive way.

It's unbearable for me to watch the heaped up toxicity of warmongering for profit "justified" by that sick apocalyptic eschatology. I'm ready to horsewhip Luther for creating the fallacy that every common man (and it's usually a man) is qualified to interpret the bible, a disgusting, repugnant screed in the best of hands in need of very careful reading by experienced scholars.

BB

Part One response to TJ:

The Music of the Spheres
Gee thanks for the comforting head pat Tom. A silver hammer in a velvet glove is an entertaining style.

I've been practicing astrology since 1969, and worked at the American Astrologers behind the Library of Congress in 1971 and 1972 before they moved to Tempe and written way in excess of a million words on astrology on the internet since 1990 and had this argument posed by thousands, always unsolicited and wanting to soothe my pointed little head (they perceived filled with delusions) with their rational logic. Because that rational logic is often based upon flawed causality and zero scholarship when discussing astrology, I always win, because I am standing on the shoulders of giants and the other argument is always a variation on Papal themes promulgated by the Italian Catholic propagandist, Pico de Mirandela who spent his days fighting the scientific logic of the Renaissance scientists. The same church taught misleading arguments have been plagiarized for 5 centuries. The catholic Church killed astrology all by itself in the west. It is only in the west that astrology is maligned and astrologers are ostracized and placed upon the rack of public ridicule. China accepts astrology. India accepts astrology. Arabia accepts astrology. Much of Europe accepts astrology as does south America. There is not a single emerging or ancient culture anywhere on earth which did not develop an astrological system. The systems of the Aztecs and the Mayas were similar. The systems of Bejing and Hanoi and Saigon are similar

Astrology, however, has nothing to do with God. It is an acknowledgment of the extension of awareness of the environment in which we live. The renowned naturalist John Muir said that you cannot separate anything from the environment because everything is connected to everything else. Chaos Theory states that indeed a butterfly can flap its wings in Montana and set forth chains of reactions which can produce a storm on the other side of the world. There are no isolated elements in the universe. Neurological research at the University of California at Berkeley has shown that vibratory effects on the synaptic pathways in the brain cause changes in behaviour. Musicians playing together start to duplicate the patterns of their group members by tuning their mental processes to the others by means of brain frequencies mirroring the music they are playing.

Planets also have vibratory frequencies (music), their individual motions represent very low sounds. If you take the orbital period of a planet and step it up 34 octaves you get its frequency in the normal audible spectrum of music.

Venus for example has an orbital period around the Sun of 224.6954328 days. There are 1440 minutes in each day and 60 seconds in each of the minutes. So by the following calculation: (224.6954328 X 1440 X 60) equaling the number of seconds in the orbital period; then taking the reciprocal by dividing that resulting number of seconds into 1 you get the vibrational frequency in one second of the planet. Then by using the standard formula for an raising an octave which is 2 to the power represented by the octave you want to raise it to, in this case 34; you come up with the actual tone (frequency) of Venus which is 442.47 Hz (or cycles per second). If you play piano you now that this is very close to A 440 which is the A above middle C on the piano. Many of my fellow bluegrass players actually tune higher to 442 because the sharper tone is perceived by their brain as crisper and feels better to their ear. Venus is the planet of the Art and entertainment and in world music the A is the most important note of reference.

Now the interesting part/point. The brain uses relatively low sound frequency to locate files in its vast storage because there are no wires or circuits in the brain. The cortex is very sophisticated and uses sound to access certain areas of synapse collections which hold particular classes of information. When information is stored in the brain it is done through musical sounds and their derived harmonics which particularize the information for the cortex, stamp it with a sonic identity, and allow it to reside near the neural pathways which lead to the more articulated responses of the body. Then when cortical activity requires information it sends out a signal with harmonic overtones to access the information. This is why we may often make mistakes with information which is very near in quality to what we are seeking. Words nearly the same in sound or meaning can be accessed in error. In a sense it is like information is stored in adjacent and slightly different harmonics. Environmental interference does this can disturb the harmonics and cause a false result.

Interference (at minimum) includes 60 hz. that generated by our AC electric power which surrounds us in the US. In addition, loud noise, stroboscopic light, barking dogs, screaming interrogators, etc.. They over-ride the brain through interference. People who live in the country on farms have experimented with turning off their power at night to see what happens when they eliminate these frequencies. The results are clarity and increased mental acuity. People in most of the world have 50 cycles per second so they perceive things differently due to their own unique interference.

part two follows this

Part Two:

The first neural pathway frequency discovered at Berkeley was 35 hz. and published last year in the journal National Association for the Advancement of Science, Science. To raise this pitch to the piano you keep doubling it (power of 2 again) until you get to notes you can play on the piano. Ergo 35::70::140::280::560 . 560 hz is in the middle octave of the piano.

What planet frequencies equate to these results?
560 hz is a nearly perfect middle Db at 554.37hz.
Mercury falls at 565.09 hz and the
Earth comes in at 544.41 hz.

Now from the Earth the Sun is orbitally inseparable. In other words if the Earth is considered the static center of the universe the Sun moves around it in 365.2421987 days. If the Sun is considered the static center of the solar system then the Earth revolves around it in 365.2421987 days. It really doesn't matter if you are looking at a Ptolemaic (Geocentric) or a Copernican conception (Heliocentric). Modern astrologers study both systems realizing the advantages of each system and the fact that the philosophical and religious prejudices influence the backgrounds and limitations of their listening audience and therefore determines the way they present the material to non-astrologers and those who have been purposely confused by self-serving astronomers who often assume incorrectly that we make buckets of money practicing astrology. Not.

To finish up:

So looking back into historical times and learning what the ancient astrologers found their analysis of the empirical observations of the relationship of Sun and Mercury:
"
Sun/Mercury
...
+ practical thinking, a clear mind, consciousness of objective, understanding and knowledge of the world, the ability to organize, circumspection and prudence, a busy occupation.

- lack of clarity, absent mindedness, aimlessness
...
"
information is quoted verbatim from "The Combination of Stellar Influences by Reinhold Ebertin page 72. copyright 1940.

Tom, if you are truly the man of integrity which your nom de plume suggests and your postings confirm, then post your true accurate birth data:

place of birth,
date and year and time (if known)
current location

I will tell you about yourself right here on CommonDreams. If the thought of this challenge bothers you, then maybe you possess a subliminal belief that there IS something to astrology and you just would rather not know because you have embraced a prejudice and are too proud to admit it. That's OK if you decline. I started the same as you as a cynic about astrology and stopped trying to figure out where "God" lives in my teens. I am an atheist now and gave up counting angels on the head of a pin a while back. The only angels I am concerned about are the LA "Anaheim" Angels of the American League.

It is personal, I agree, but your aloof attack on my implied jejune credulity is also personal. So Tom, what's it going to be, can you handle the truth and will you be able to acknowledge it in this public forum? The ball is in your court my friend.

Oh and guess what? The Sun is right next to Mercury in the sky today at 6:32AM Pacific Daylight Time when I began this post this morning. There are no accidents. Everything in the universe runs on schedule. The Sun and Mercury are right at their shared mid-day position in the center of the sky to the south when I completed this post and committed it to CommonDreams. I didn't have to plan it is just happened today this way because it was my task in this great universe today at 1:00PM PDT.

From my internet book: "Changing from motion to a state of rest. The resting body. Consciousness focused on specific things. Little exercise. Ending a motion. The body at a standstill. Driven in a vehicle. Sedentary mode of life. The mind and thoughts are busy with the soil.

After taking a bus and checking on my social security check I will get off my ass and do some gardening. C U later.

michael jordan

http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
http://joshuaproject.blogspot.com/
http://transbay.net/~ballgame/