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A Year Later, Iowa Raid Still Marks a Flashpoint
POSTVILLE, Iowa - If there is an epicenter in the shifting, emotionally charged debate over U.S. immigration policy, it is here, amid some of the richest soil on Earth.
A GPS monitor on her ankle tracks Nohemi Hurtado as she waits for a decision on her residency status in Postville, Iowa. Daughter Jocelyn Bustamante played at her feet Monday. (photo: Keith Myers) That alluvial black dirt nurtures corn, beef cattle, chickens and turkeys, which require massive slaughterhouses. And that in turn nurtures a lively trade in the illegal immigrants willing to work in them.
All that ended in Postville a year ago today, when two government helicopters and some 900 immigration agents descended on this town of 2,200 and rounded up nearly 400 illegal immigrants working at a nearby meatpacking plant.
Believed to be the second-largest workplace immigration raid in U.S. history, it cost taxpayers $5.2 million, according to one estimate; it terrified workers and their families; and it left economic devastation in its wake.
“I am not angry at the people who do not want us here,” said a weeping Nohemi Hurtado, who is from Mexico and earned $7.50 an hour cleaning the hair from beef carcasses at nearby Agriprocessors. “It is their country, but I just ask God that I can stay.”
Hurtado and the others — mostly Guatemalans — were prosecuted for violating U.S. immigration laws, then scheduled for what the government now calls “removal.”
“I am disturbed that local religious leaders in Postville seem to think it is immoral to arrest people who violated federal laws,” said Roy Beck, president of NumbersUSA, a group that believes in limiting immigration.
Beck said he believed the detainees were being treated humanely despite claims from local religious leaders to the contrary.
While the raid answered the prayers of millions of Americans on the anti-immigration side of the debate, it fed the passions of millions of others who are lobbying for leniency toward undocumented workers.
Indeed, Obama administration officials are now pushing a national immigration policy that will target the employers who hire and sometimes abuse illegal immigrants, more than the illegal immigrants themselves.
“Postville will one day be remembered as a dark chapter in U.S. history that served as a catalyst for reforming our nation’s immigration system into something we can take pride in again,” said Ali Noorani, executive director of the National Immigration Forum, a nonpartisan, pro-immigrant advocacy group in Washington.
Whether that reform will ultimately lead to amnesty for the 12 million illegal immigrants already in the United States, or guest worker programs for those who follow, remains to be seen.
But either way — as with most preceding swings in U.S. immigration policy — the question is more likely to be decided by politics and passion than by economics and common sense, observers say.
Ever since the raid, pro-immigration groups, including the Catholic church and other religious and political lobbies, have used it to illustrate what they argue is the basic unfairness of punishing illegal immigrants seeking a better life.
To make their point, today they are staging a prayer vigil, news conferences, a blessing for the town and a symbolic march to the Agriprocessors plant.
“We are working hard to raise the national consciousness about the devastation of this raid,” said Sister Mary McCauley. “We are calling for complete immigration reform and an end to the raids. … We can never be proud of what happened here.”
Some 50 other rallies are planned in cities nationwide, including one at noon in Kansas City’s Washington Park, across the street from an office building where immigration court is held.
But the Postville plant, which produced kosher meat products, hardly escaped the government crackdown unscathed. It is operating under the supervision of a bankruptcy conservator, who is looking for a buyer.
“We now have the opportunity to start over and do it right this time,” said Postville Mayor Leigh Rekow.
The New York-based owners of the plant, which is still operating at reduced capacity, also have been prosecuted for alleged violations of civil rights and labor laws.
Employers don’t like current policies any better than the workers do, said Mira Mdivani of the Mdivani Law Firm in Overland Park, which represents employers.
“The only reason employers hire illegals is because there’s no way to hire them otherwise,” she said, adding: “There’s simply no legal category of visa available for nonskilled or semiskilled nonseasonal labor.”
Employers have been put in a near-impossible legal position, Mdivani argues. But others say the legal hammer fell hardest on the workers themselves, some of whom spent five months in detention.
Of the nearly 400 arrested, 290 already have been deported, some leaving family members behind. Many of the remaining workers are unemployed and unable to leave. Some have requested visas contingent on their willingness to help the government prosecute the company for various offenses.
But too many who were allegedly victimized, including women who say they were sexually harassed at the plant, already have been deported, said Sonia Parras Konrad, an Iowa lawyer representing some of the workers.
“In our urgency to punish people here … we missed a lot of people who were victimized and who could have been extraordinarily helpful in the prosecution of the company,” Konrad said. “I hope the Obama administration can learn from what happened in Postville. We need to make sure our government screens these workers for potential victims and not be so quick to remove them.”
There had always been an uneasy coexistence between the Agriprocessors plant and Postville, which bills itself as “Hometown to the World.” Then in 1987, a group of Hasidic Jews purchased the non-kosher slaughterhouse and refurbished it according to Hasidic law.
Agriprocessors once employed as many as 900 workers, and over the years Postville saw an influx of workers, including Ukrainians, Russians, Mexicans, Filipinos and now Guatemalans.
Disagreements occasionally arose with Postville officials over taxes and other issues. But it was last year’s raid that crippled the town economically.
The deportations hit the rental and real estate markets hard, forced the closings of at least four Hispanic businesses and left several local companies holding debt from the now-bankrupt packing plant.
And there’s the human fallout, such as Hurtado and her 2-year-old daughter, Jocelyn.
Hurtado, 27, wears a GPS ankle bracelet that keeps track of her whereabouts. She is not allowed to work or leave Postville. She is unable to send money home to other family members. And since the raid, she and her daughter’s father have separated.
Food, clothing and health care for the detainees have cost St. Bridget’s Catholic Church as much as $80,000 a month, but the costs have gone down with only about 60 detainees remaining, according to church officials.
“My lawyer tells me my case is moving very slowly,” Hurtado said through an interpreter. “We are just thankful that people here can help us.”
The Star’s Dan Margolies contributed to this report.
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56 Comments so far
Show AllThis raid was a forerunner and test run of procedures to be implemented in the future for mass roundup and incarceration of individuals who are deemed dangerous to the state.
In the future, it may not be just illegal immigrants(after all they will work for a pittance) but also protesters against war spending or demonstrators against bank bailouts or.......
Remember, we have all those KBR-built concentra...er, illegal immigrant detention camps to fill.
To: curmudgeon99 WOW!!! Very interesting comment. I completely agree.
I could not have said it better.
Do you have any website research suggestions related to this topic & your comment?
Any red blooded American want a job cleaning hair off cow carcasses for$7.50 hr? What's happening at all the other large agribusiness plants out on the plains? Where does our food come from and who makes it possible for us to have our hamburgers? Where's the beef?
I'll bet that if "red blooded Americans" were paid $15.00 to clean hair off of cows plus medical and pension benefits there would be a line at the plant door looking for those jobs.
Paying foreigners low wages does not help the American worker, only the stock holder/rich.
So which side are you on?
hoytdouglas, you're totally missing doinit's point. Not a single American WOULD want the position at $7.50 and no benefits. In fact, in my neck of the woods, I doubt that an "American" by virtue of his or her parents' good luck or fortune to BE an American, would want the job for even $15 an hour plus benefits.
Yes, you are correct about Big Agriculture and their motives. However, BigAg isn't going to get caught with its hand in the cookie jar, is it? No! The blame is being directed to the migrant workers who are the ONLY ONES who will PROVIDE us with our food! Doinit's point.
I am on the side of the migrant worker. Have problems with that?
>>I am disturbed that local religious leaders in Postville seem to think it is immoral to arrest people who violated federal laws,” said Roy Beck, president of NumbersUSA, a group that believes in limiting immigration
I wonder what Mr Beck things about the arrest of GW Bush, Dick Cheney and crew for violating federal laws.?
Oh wait...laws are for the little people
I remember when those packing plants all paid top wages to union employees - and legal American-born people worked in them. Then came the Reagan Fascist Revolution. Those workers now make about half of what those jobs paid way back in the '70s - put that into your calculator and tell me what fortune you find.
I'm against 'illegal aliens' - migration is a normal habit for many species, including humans. But unilateral disarmament is suicide. What we need is a world where ALL immigration is LEGAL unless you're a convicted felon. That means Americans could go to any other country, for any reason - as well as immigrants coming here. There is no such thing as an 'illegal' person, no matter what silly law gets written. People are not 'illegal' - laws make them criminals. That's wrong. And let's not forget that all but a handful of natives are immigrants to this country!
Part of the devastation of our global economy comes from the free 'immigration' or 'emigration' of capital, but strict controls on the workers - if one is restricted, then the other must be as well, and to a far greater degree, because capital only takes a keystroke to move from one country to another - it's not as easy for human beings to relocate and/or retrain.
My brother's wife was murdered by a hit-and-run driver who had no license - and no immigration papers - allowing her to legally drive in this country. Maybe his wife would have lived, if that woman wasn't afraid of what would happen to her because of her 'illegal alien' status - maybe she would have called an ambulance. Maybe even if she had a driver's license, she might have stopped and called the accident in - but that will NEVER happen when a person's own life is threatened. This horrendous 'accident' brought the 'illegal allien' problem home to me - and destroyed my brother - his life, his career - everything shattered.
We've got to learn to treat the disease - not just put band-aids on the symptoms, or nothing is going to change. If you get into this country, by any means, then you deserve human rights - without intimidation, which is causing havoc for all of us. If you bring money into or take money out of this country, there should be stipulations regarding its effect on the economy - it's no different than all those migrants pouring over our borders. They're only reacting to all that money pouring into theirs, and driving them out by displacing their jobs. NAFTA, CAFTA, and the rest of the alphabet-soup deals and agencies need to go the way of the dinosaur - they're not appropriate for our century, considering the consequences to both people and environment.
I may be a conservative - but I want the 'good life' we all once had. And I want it for everyone in the world - not just a privileged few, or we're facing wars and revolutions without end. And that's not good for anything but the arms business - and war is always bad business.
"What we need is a world where ALL immigration is LEGAL unless you're a convicted felon."
"If you get into this country, by any means, then you deserve human rights - without intimidation, which is causing havoc for all of us."
Which is it? Universal human rights or exceptions for those who are branded as felons by their own government?
It is possible that someone was wrongly convicted or their former homeland used the criminal law as a tool of control and oppression.
Capital is global. Resource destruction, pillage, and stealing are global. BUT .... labor is not permitted to be global by the scum, evil elite of the earth. I really wish there were a hell. For them.
"Employers don’t like current policies any better than the workers do, said Mira Mdivani of the Mdivani Law Firm in Overland Park, which represents employers."
“The only reason employers hire illegals is because there’s no way to hire them otherwise,” she said, adding: “There’s simply no legal category of visa available for nonskilled or semiskilled nonseasonal labor.”
wow - total denial. armybrat is exactly correct. the meat packing plants refuse to pay decent wages to the workers - remember the documentary about the hormel workers who went on strike in the 80's who went on strike up in austin minnesota. their union was destroyed - the wages plummeted , the community was shattered.
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/01/29_galballye_hormelstrike/
Nearly 20 years later, the Hormel strike lives on, Erin Galbally, Minnesota Public Radio , January 29, 2004
the film 'american dream' by barbara kopple documents this story.
IMDb user comments for American Dream :
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099028/usercomments
...peace...
...continued
there is a running article about the postville plant raids in my local paper. what's appaling to me as i follow the story, is the complicity of the landlords and small businessmen in postville who profited from the exploitation that was occuring - especially the hassidic community in postville.
Postville decimated by immigration raid one year ago
By Orlan Love - 5/9/09
www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090510/NEWS/705109994
{"The word he uses to describe the litter sounds incongruous coming from a learned member of the town's Orthodox Jewish community, but Menahem can hardly be blamed for letting slip the occasional epithet. He's lost a fortune in the year since federal agents raided kosher meatpacker Agriprocessors Inc.
His 3-1/2-year-old business, GAL Investments Ltd., generated monthly revenue of $192,000 before the May 12, 2008, raid that plunged Postville into an economic recession months ahead of the rest of the nation. Now, with just 19 of his 129 rental units occupied, Menahem took in $16,000 last month — a fraction of his expenses."
-------------------------
"A year ago it was impossible to buy a house in Postville. Now there are 228 houses for sale out of 700 total," said Menahem, who describes the town as "a sinking ship."
Mayor Leigh Rekow, who was appointed in April after Robert Penrod resigned, said the city has struggled financially since the raid and the subsequent virtual shutdown of Agriprocessors, which employed more than 900 full-time workers a year ago and now has about 350 part-time workers."}
...
since the locals won't work for such wages, the town has been replaced by opportunist from outside postville who prey on these migrant workers (i know it's the same phenomenon that's occurring in imperial valley, CA - yakima valley WA etc..)
after the latin americans were rounded up, they replaced them w/ somalis (a little ironic - muslims working for slave wages in a jewish meatpacking plant - it didn't work out b/c they stopped work to pray 7 times a day - seriously). instead of paying living wages these folks will scour the face of the earth to find people to exploit.
i have no sympathy for these clowns who run these operations and bring in out of state opportunists to prey on the poorest of the poor (latin american immigrants).
i hope they go to jail. the workers should receive US citizenship for having to tolerate the abuses that they incurred at the plant.
the same situation is playing out at swift meatpacking plant in marshalltown, iowa. locals won't work there - so they 'recruit' workers (african american) from the south side of chicago, pay them $8 an hour and cloister them in segragted communities. they don't have cars so they're basically trapped on their island - like the guatemalans were in postville.
welcome to america - land of the free...
...peace...
correct link for mpr hormel update from 2004...
news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/01/29_galballye_hormelstrike/
...peace...
Keep the workers - deport the Corporate gangsters that ran Agriprocessors.
myths about immigration and immigrants
http://www.neighborhood-centers.org/en-us/content/Immigrants+and+Immigration.aspx
I. Simply put, if you're here illegally, get out!
II. If you want to be an American, do so legally, learn the language and learn the culture. Yes, there is a standard American culture which ebbs and flows around the many diverse cultures which thrive here. Practice personal responsibility, responsibility to others and civic responsibility.
III. Stop breeding with 2 kids.
IV. Let the corporations hire Americans or go out of business.
BTW, I am married to a legal immigrant who is disgusted with illegal immigration.
it is a priveledge to be rich.
myths about undocumented immigrants.
http://www.neighborhood-centers.org/en-us/content/Immigrants+and+Immigration.aspx
it is not illegal to be human
regarding your III statement.
i can have as many kids as i want too.
by the way, i am american.
I. you really are so lucky to be 'legal' aren't you?
II. to what 'culture' are you refering? are you speaking of the culture of affluence and greed? or the culture of ignorance and pettiness?
III. nice to see your views on human reproduction, i shudder to think of what you think of sexuality in general
IV. The corporations don't care about Americans vs. non-americans, is that too hard for you to understand? can you get that through your obviously troubled viewpoint(s)?
my suggestion to you...
read a book, something like aldous huxley's Island or Klein's Shock Doctrine,
then come back with an argument that could hold some water.
oh, by the way, just wondering, do you think America's cup is half full or half empty? please elaborate for me ;)
The cruelty and exploitation that goes on in these plants are beyond comprehension.
Here are some facts that are not mentioned in The Kansas City Star's love kiss to big Ag.
LOW WAGES AND NO BENEFITS
The Star's Mike McGraw claims a distraught "Nohemi Hurtado, who is from Mexico, earned $7.50/hour" at the AgriProcessors slaughterhouse before the ICE raid, but the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported workers made just $6.25 to $7.25 an hour. And, they worked 12-14 hours a day, "frequently standing in boots in knee-deep water, their hands cramped and swollen from shifts salting chickens or loading meat onto trays . . . with 20-minute meal breaks and, they say, often no overtime pay."
According to a May 2006 report in The Jewish Daily Forward, several industry experts described AgriProcessor's wages as "the lowest of any slaughterhouse in the nation."
"I have not heard of a six-dollar wage since I started working in Nebraska in 1990," said Lourdes Gouveia, director of the Office of Latino Studies at the University of Nebraska, where she studies working conditions in the meat packing industry.
In addition, employees were "shortchanged on paychecks regularly" and "asked to bribe supervisors for better shifts." The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission investigated in 2003, but "Hispanic workers were too afraid to speak with the EEOC."
The United Food and Commercial Workers union, which tried to organize the workers, says supervisors bully workers into buying cars and renting apartments from them in exchange for better treatment or getting relatives hired.
ABUSIVE TREATMENT AND SQUALID CONDITIONS
The Star gratuitously claims the ICE raid was a sop to "the prayers of millions of Americans" who are "anti-immigration," yet fails to mention that AgriProcessors was, and still is, a nightmarish sweatshop. Numerous other publications have reported:
• Sanitary conditions at the plant were appalling (USDA had mandated recalls because of unsanitary conditions).
• Guns were being bought and sold on the kill floor.
• Drug use was not uncommon.
• More than 9,000 violations of child labor laws — including children as young as 13 working on the kill floor — are now alleged by the State of Iowa.
• The U.S. Department of Labor had fined the company for repeated workplace safety issues.
• Virtually no safety training was provided — an anomaly for an industry in which the tools are designed to cut and grind through flesh and bones, and which has the "highest levels of injury of any manufacturing industry" according to a 2005 Human Rights Watch report.
• After PETA released a video documenting animal abuses in the slaughterhouse in December 2004, their undercover investigator said AgriProcessors gave him just one hour of safety training with a supervisor who did not speak Spanish — though the other trainees, all of whom were Hispanic, spoke no English.
• Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) records reveal more than five amputations and dozens of other serious injuries such as broken bones, eye injuries and hearing loss between 2001 and 2005.
• One worker lost a hand in 2005 when a machine he was cleaning suddenly whirred to life. He later returned to the plant and worked half-time in hopes of paying off his debts back home in Mexico.
• OSHA tagged AgriProcessors with six violations in 2006 — more than half the violations in all Iowa meatpacking plants that year.
• The 2005 UFCW organizing campaign began to unravel at about the same time workers in the plant said supervisors were having meetings at which they threatened to fire workers or refer them to immigration officials if a union was formed.
• UFCW says one worker had his eyes duct-taped by a supervisor and was beaten with a meat hook. The worker did not come forward for fear of losing his job.
(continued below)
More facts:
CORPORATE GREED, ARROGANCE AND FRAUD
Before the raid, AgriProcessors was the nation's largest kosher meatpacking plant. According to The Jewish Daily Forward, "AgriProcessors' final product — sold under the nationally popular Aaron's Best brand — is priced significantly higher than standard meat. Its kosher seal gives it a seeming moral imprimatur in an industry known for harsh working conditions." (It's nonkosher brands are reportedly sold through retailers including Wal-Mart and Trader Joe's.)
"The company's business model has been economically successful. While AgriProcessors has been expanding steadily, its closest competitor, Empire Kosher, fired employees and cut back operations in 2006. Union leaders at Empire Kosher said that the cutbacks were necessary because Empire pays its lowest-ranking unionized employees close to $3 more an hour from the outset than AgriProcessors' lowest employees, and provides full benefits."
Scott Frotman, a spokesman for UFCW, calls AgriProcessors a "rogue employer that really does drive down wages and working conditions not only in their plant but, by extension, for all workers."
Still, plant manager Sholom Rubashkin, who is the son of the Brooklyn-based owner, having built a fortune on the blood, sweat and tears of migrant slaves, had the gall to say in 2006 that the failure of the UFCW union drive was evidence of his workers' "contentment."
"Spanish-speaking community leaders in Postville said [the 2005] union drive failed for the same reason that the grievances have not been made public before: The workers have a well-developed fear of being fired or deported."
WHO WORKS AT THE POSTVILLE SLAUGHTERHOUSE NOW?
Since the 2008 raid NPR and others have reported that wages at the plant were raised to about $9/hour. Outside labor contractors hired by AgriProcessors first brought in homeless people from Texas, with little success. The Iowa Independent reported that "Labor Ready, a multinational staffing firm with a branch in Waterloo, cited health and safety concerns as the reason it pulled roughly 150 workers out of the AgriProcessors plant 10 days after they started employment there. Another group of workers from the company's Nebraska plant opted to return west, claiming the working conditions in Postville to be far inferior to their original location."
Then Somalis (legal immigrants) came from Minnesota by the hundreds. But the Somalis, some of whom had worked in other meatpacking plants, quickly recognized the lack of worker safety at Postville and most have since quit or been fired.
Other workers from around the Midwest have been recruited, but complain they are cheated and treated "like illegals." They are crammed into staffing company-arranged housing: run-down trailers and apartments where they sleep on mattresses on the floor, with no electricity, hot water, working showers or furniture. For this, $100/week rent is deducted from wages, and more is deducted for travel and cash advances. Strapped local food shelves and churches subsidize the low wages.
Palau islanders (8000 miles from Iowa) have been the latest recruits. They can legally work in the U.S. and are reportedly industrious and hard-working. However, many of them have already moved on to other meatpacking plants in the region where they can make $12-$13/hour.
(continued below)
More facts:
FEDERAL INDICTMENTS
The owners and managers of the Postville AgriProcessors slaughterhouse not only knew they were hiring illegals, they had recruited them and facilitated the procurement of their illegal identification.
On November 21, 2008 federal prosecutors indicted AgriProcessors managers on charges including "conspiracy to harbor undocumented aliens for profit, harboring undocumented aliens for profit, conspiracy to commit document fraud, aiding and abetting document fraud, six counts of aiding and abetting aggravated identity theft, and two counts of bank fraud." Named in the indictment are former AgriProcessors Chief Executive Sholom M. Rubashkin, 49; plant Operations Manager Brent Beebe, 51; former plant Poultry Manager Hosam Amara, 44; former plant Poultry Manager Zeev Levi; and former plant human resources employee Karina Freund, 29.
Hosam Amara and Zeev Levi fled following the ICE raid and [as far as I know] are still wanted by federal authorities.
According to The Iowa Independent, "the company faces numerous fines in conjunction with the charges. On five charges — the conspiracy to harbor, the harboring, the conspiracy to commit document fraud, the aiding and abetting document fraud, and aiding and abetting document fraud -– the company faces a fine of the greater of $500,000 or twice the pecuniary gain from the offense. Since the company was charged with six counts of aiding and abetting aggravated identity theft, the company faces the fine on each count. In addition, the company faces a fine of the greater of $1 million or twice the loss caused in relation to the bank fraud charges."
"The individuals also face hefty fines for their alleged wrongdoings. The individuals, unlike the company, however, also face prison time."
"The possible maximum penalty on charges of conspiracy to harbor is 10 years in prison, a $250,000 fine and three years of supervised release. Charges of harboring and aiding and abetting document fraud carry the same possible maximum sentence. Conspiracy to commit document fraud carries a possible maximum five years in prison, a $250,000 fine and three years of supervised release. Aiding and abetting aggravated identity theft carries a mandatory consecutive two years imprisonment, a $250,000 fine and one year of supervised release."
The Independent reported on April 4, 2009 that "former AgriProcessors Human Resources Manager, Elizabeth Billmeyer, 48, pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to harbor undocumented aliens for profit and one count of knowingly accepting false resident alien cards. Billmeyer was charged on March 31, following information that she had conspired for more than five years with two other employees at AgriProcessors to employ illegal immigrants for commercial advantage and private financial gain. She faces a possible maximum sentence of 20 years in prison, a $500,000 fine, a $200 special assessment and six years of supervised release following any prison term."
CONCLUSION
The Kansas City Star has mislead it's readers so completely, it's nearly impossible to catch a hint of the truth in their article. Except perhaps for this:
"The only reason employers hire illegals is because there's no way to hire them otherwise," said Mira Mdivani of the Mdivani Law Firm in Overland Park, which represents employers, adding: "There's simply no legal category of visa available for nonskilled or semiskilled nonseasonal labor."
In other words, employers such as AgriProcessors only hire foreign wage slaves. Paying prevailing wages and hiring U.S. citizens would never even cross their minds.
In an odd way, the Pottsville, Iowa meat packing plant is separated from the corporate crime depicted in Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" only by the space of years and the make up of the labor force. In almost ever other facet, the parallels are truly eerie.
This issue is so loaded, and so ingeniously used to divide, and pit poor people against poor people that I am loathe to even add my two cents. Yet here I am. I will try to make my points, and try to do so in a way that reconciles rather than divides.
1. We have a 'Global War on Terror' which most of us know is utter bullshit, but which is now so entrenched that it seems useless to even struggle against it. That said, IF we want to be consistent in such a war it only makes sense to secure our borders, and DEFINITELY stop selling off control of U.S. ports to foreign interests.
2. Illegal immigrants protested in the U.S. for fair treatment. Had there been such strenuous protests for fair wages and treatment in Mexico there quite possibly have been no reason for them to come to the U.S. for jobs. That said, I recognize the fact that without help from U.S. business interests and covert/black marketeers the Mexican government may have long ago have cleaned up its own corruption.
3. If there were better paying jobs in Mexico, and if American citizens were willing to work for slave wages we would be seeing organized crime working hand in hand with corporations to supply cheap American illegal immigrant labor to Mexico. It will not end until there is something done about the problem of inequality on both sides of the border. As it stands now, U.S. corporations gain threefold through illegal immigrant labor - a. they get cheap labor (slave wages), b. they break U.S. unions, and c. they can then suppress wages on a national level.
Now we have a situation in which all of the gains of the labor movement in the U.S. are undermined by the partnership between Organized Crime which supplies cheap (slave) labor and Corporate America. These gains are further undermined by 'Free Trade' agreements which further ship American Jobs across the borders, lay waste to the environment of other nations, and rob those nations of their publicly owned resources - and if they try to prevent that, or worse - try to regain some kind of economic sovereignty, they are called 'communists' and our military goes in to put them down.
Far be it from me to give one more ounce of military or policing authority to our government. There is no justice in this country any longer as we can see in the current financial bailout debacle in which Wall St. is extorting our tax dollars to cover up their own corruption and fraud, while threatening that if we don't pay up they'll drop the ball and collapse the whole house. As I see it the immigration debate is just a sweet way to get half the poor to shoot the other half, while the honchos laugh and do 'boat drinks'. Fuck that. It's time to join up, call bullshit on the drug war, the war on terror, publicly burn the cold-war nonsense (which holds no water philosophically speaking - when govt owns industry they call it communism, but when industry owns govt. they call it fascism? Six in one hand, half dozen in the other. Bullshit, in other words), and storm Wall St. and Pennsylvania Ave.
P.S. If I hear one more time that 'They perform jobs that Americans don't want' I'm going to vomit. If corporate (and the family farms who have to compete with them) farms paid wages that people could live on, and raise their families, Americans WOULD want those jobs. I would pick apples all day long if it could do that for me.
If the minimum wage had kept pace with CEO compensation it would be $22 an hour according to a May 2007 report from the Wharton school.
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1727
Everyone here is an illegal immigrant. Only the Native American Indians are true Americans. Just cause we have bullets & they only had arrows....Now we are the true Americans? NO.
I THINK WE SHOULD ALL STOP PAYING TAXES, & STOP BITCHING.
We are basically mad that "illegals" don't pay taxes, SO LETS ALL BE THE SAME AND STOP.
By the way if you are self-employed: Not only do you not pay taxes, but other people's tax money is given to you. FOR REAL.
I think that anyone who wants to live in the US should be allowed to if they can make it here.
BUT at the same time I think legal persons should be hired for a job before others. (But that is only up to the Corp.)
ARE TAX DOLLARS JUST BAILOUT PRIVATE CORP. ANYWAYS!
SO LETS STOP PAYING TAXES AND I THINK A LOT OF PROBLEMS WILL DISAPPEAR....LIKE.....
The War, Welfare (Should get help from your church anyways) , Bad public schools (make kids gangstas), and of course the (I'm jealous illegals don't pay taxes problem.) Non of U.S. want a shit job anyways do we??!!!
I THINK WACHOVIA, AIG, FORD, CHEVY, SHOULD ALL PAY OUR TAXES NEXT YEAR!!!!!!!!!!
Actually, "illegal aliens" do pay taxes--sales taxes, property taxes if they rent or own, Social Security taxes which they'll never benefit from and in many cases payroll taxes as well. That's why many believe they add more to our economy than they take.
(1st off I want to make it clear that we are all equals and all created by the same God and should be able to go anywhere on the earth we wish without being called "illegal" and should be allowed to automatically work and pay taxes and be apart of that society.)
(What I do have a problem with is that the people who do pay taxes, have their tax dollars going to pay medicaid and other social programs for people who DON'T PAY TAXES & ARE ILLEGAL.) or (ARE LEGAL & LAZY AND DON'T WORK).
The people who are hispanic that pay taxes are usually not "illegals" they are here on a work visa or are a legal resident, or even a citizen.
Trust me the true "illegals" DON'T PAY TAXES, cause if they did the INS, Immigration of National Services would DEPORT THEM, cause they would know where they are at, when they get there tax return to pick it up. If no number is attached to you cause you hopped the fence or river, you don't pay taxes cause there is no number to file it under. I use to work as a bartender at a mexican night club, it would get raided by the INS, and they would deport people right out of the night club.
I am married to someone from Nicaragua, and I work at a 95% hispanic business, doing taxes, insurance, and travel arrangements. I see a lot of things :)
EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IS TREATED DIFFERENTLY.....
Example: If you are from Ecuador it is very hard to come here legally, becuase the country of Ecuador is a paradise and has no political problems. I dated a girl from Ecuador, anyone from Ecuador is either illegal, or very rich & legal. This girl and her family lived here for 9 years and when there visa expired they didn't want to go back, cause now they have a life, and a house, and a good job, and grand kids. So now they are "illegal".
Example: If you are from Coloumbia, you can come here poor or rich. All you have to say is that Cocaine dealers have been trying to kidnap you for ransom money and you automatically get in the USA.
Hispanics are slicker than grease, and smart, trust me they get by on everything.
I know a guy who has illegals working for him. He pays them cash, no taxes. He himself is legal and works for a huge succsesful auto dealer. This guy washes the dealer's cars and makes $180,000 per year, of which he also pays some money to his workers, but the point being is that he pays taxes, but his illegal workers DON'T.
I also use to work at a fancy steakhouse and some of the hispanic cooks in the back told me themselves they get about $12.00 and pay no taxes. When you are truely "illegal" there is no number for you to have taxes attached to you!!!!
So what happens is this: The "illegals" don't want to be discovered and deported, so they find these jobs where no one cares that they are "illegal" and keep them. Then they bribe anyone to marry them for money, so that they can become "legal" and stay here. If they are ugly & broke, and no one wants to marry them OR they already fell in love with another "illegal" they just save there money from there job that they DON'T PAY TAXES ON, and take all of there savings and go back to there home country and start there own business, and buy a huge house. FOR REAL!!
I had a lady friend at Taco Bell, and she showed me a picture of her home on a dirt street in Mexico. Her house looked like a house out of Miami Vice.
JUST TRUST ME, IF THEY ARE HERE THEY NEED TO BE ALLOWED TO STAY HERE TO LIVE AND BE IDENTIFIED BY NUMBER JUST LIKE THE REST OF US.
I guess you are unaware that many undocumented workers have false social security numbers, which is why large companies like meat-packing plants can hire them. They have taxes deducted like anyone else, but they can't get refunds or collect Social Security. They also pay sales taxes and property taxes if they own or rent homes.
blessthebeasts,
exactly... these immigrants pay taxes but receive no benefits or legal protection. plus, they're recruited by people who provide them w/ the documentation. everyone is exploiting these people - the landlord, the clerk at the quickie mart, walmart and maybe the local bar - oh and the churches of course.
...peace...
Bless the Beasts, Yes you are Right!! There is no escape from sales tax, property tax, etc.... for anyone.
But when they do pay income tax it is because they STOLE SOMEONES IDENTITY.
Which is why I think they should be allowed to stay here and get there own id number so they don't ruin someone elses life and credit just to survive.
They DO get refunds, I work in a tax office that is completely hispanic with many illegals, and I've seen the checks, they do get refunds.
At our office which is entirely hispanic, we do taxes, insurance, and travel arrangements.
They do get aid from social programs as well, you need to work at least 48 quarters of fileing income tax and yes they will get Social Security Benefits.
I write the letters myself, to help them get such benefits. Cause hey, they pay cash, and I have to eat each day.
This whole situation is why a company called Pre-Paid Legal Inc. is now the only company that does Identity Restoration. Not just alert you that your identity was stolen, but fix it for you. THIS IS BECOMING A VERY LARGE PROBLEM.
Just a sad note: I know business owners that own a Mexican Resturant and make good money and want to BUY Blue Cross Health Insurance....But can't....Blue Cross will not allow you to purchase their product without a social security number. These people are willing to pay themselves for the product, but can't. Even a tax ID won't work.....So these people are forced by our system to get a fake social security numbers in order to get health insurance, or (they the "illegals") told me they will just give a fake name, fake address, fake phone number, get fixed and never pay a single hospital bill.
Another sad note: I sell every kind of insurance there is, and the DMV will not let you renew your drivers license if you don't have a social security number. You use to be able to use a tax id, but not anymore. Why? I really don't know why. But it's still the TRUTH. So now these folks are driving around with no license even though they use to have one. This again is our system making unneccesary rules that cause really BIG PROBLEMS. Cause now when there is a car accident, they flee the sceen cause they don't want to go to jail for driving without a license. And they just might leave someone bleeding to death, instead of calling in the accident.
I work with "illegals" and "legals" but 95% hispanic and I'm glad to help them they are a lot nicer than some of the people who have been here for over 400 years and came over on a boat unwillingly and just willingly robbed me and my customers last week at our office, by gun point.
I have never heard of the transactions you describe. I'll take your word for it that they exist. I do agree that people resort to such things because they're forced to, out of desperation.
Thanks for sharing your first-hand information and perspective. One question: what part of the country are you in?
i'm really getting a racist vibe from your post,
it's not worth a 'reply' (and i really don't care if you're married to a latina). your comments have a racist 'flair'.
in the last 2.5 years i've worked as a manual laborer in iowa. i've worked w/ african american refugees from america's urban jungles and i've worked w/ billy ray jimbob's kids from rural america as i've worked with undocumented workers from guatemala, houndouras, el salvador, mexico, the sudan, and nigeria, as well as the 'documented' workers described in the article and comments from such countries as somalia.
these experiences occurred in the 'heartland' (center) of the united states. you're wrong sir. after the flood of 08 in cedar rapids i worked w/ all of these people through a nebulous subcontractor for a sketchy national contractor based out of dallas (BMS) that always shows up on the scene after a national disaster - my supervisor was relocated to buffalo after the airplane crash, i met 3 bms supervisors who were at 911, 36 hours after the attack (friends of the bushes - no doubt).
anyway, as an interloper i worked w/ all the aforementioned ethnic groups. i can tell you w/ 100% certainty - the latin american workers i worked with (i speak spanish and tried the best i could to decipher their stories) were organized, hard working, bright, astute, and courageous (give me a break - how many americans would travel 3,500 miles over land for a better life - answer, their too stupid and lazy from f''ing tv and junk food).
the folks from the inner city - did have a difficult time completing a project, but that's because they recognized the entire flood recovery contractor system was a scam - they responded accordingly - never bow down to the master (did you ever have that experience ian ?).
billy ray jimbob was pretty confused (over the course of my 9 month project working to clean up after the flood in cedar rapids). by billy ray jimbob, i mean local iowan's whose families migrated to the city from small agricultural towns who were absorbed by agro-corporate america years ago.
to be honest, the latin americans were much better workers, smarter and willing to endure challenging situations. they also worked as a team, collectively. something alien to the white american workers. i enjoyed the central american's camaraderie and willingness to do what had to be done.
the locals - iowans - couldn't work as a unit, a cohesive group (of say 35 people). the latin americans naturally worked as a unit (husbands, wives, children and friends addressing one project in one afternoon and completing the project).
i liked them b/c personally i'm the kinda person that likes to hang from a rafter 15 feet off the ground w/ a crow bar in one hand ripping out ceiling tiles - the mexicans also got shit finished.
billy ray jimbob (anglo-white america) - very lazy and unproductive. ianplank, you're on planet nine man ... you don't know what your talking about ... in the big picture, america is going down b/c of it's own betrayal of a decent work ethic (very ironic) and b/c of it's own denial of the exploitation that has transpired across the globe in america's wake.
good luck - b/c you're wrong, the undocumented immigrants i've met in my life (from poland, mexico, guatemala, el salvadore, houndouras, argentina, australia, switzerland, germany, ireland, korea, vietnam - and many more countries) - are some of the most amazing people i've met (and i've worked in over 40 states in america) and they pay taxes - sales tax as one example.
ian, get out a little more - please talk to some of the people you see as criminals. you might be surprised.
...peace...
iowa black bird :
Did you even read what I wrote?
What did I say that was racist?
I help people of other creeds and colors everyday.
You are way to quick to judge.
And you don't have to belive a word I say.
"Example: If you are from Coloumbia, you can come here poor or rich. All you have to say is that Cocaine dealers have been trying to kidnap you for ransom money and you automatically get in the USA.
Hispanics are slicker than grease, and smart, trust me they get by on everything."
-------------------------------------------
who's to blame here the worker or the employers who recruit and then exploit these workers ?
...peace...
IOWA BLACK BIRD
There is no doubt that the large Corporations. are to blame for low wages and bad working conditions. Before 1900 there were horrible conditions for workers of all types in the pig slaughter houses. I read an entire book on it in school. The discription of the working conditions were discussting, and very dangerous.
____________________________________________________________________________________
IOWA BLACK BIRD: you said you got a racist vibe from the following.....
"Example: If you are from Coloumbia, you can come here poor or rich. All you have to say is that Cocaine dealers have been trying to kidnap you for ransom money and you automatically get in the USA.
FUNNY THING IS I DIDN'T SAY THIS MYSELF, A COLUMBIAN FRIEND SAID IT TO ME (THAT IS HOW THEY GOT OVER HERE)...AND NOW I'M TELL YOU ABOUT IT.
Now I did say......Hispanics are slicker than grease, and smart, trust me they get by on everything."
THAT IS BECAUSE I WORK IN A TAX & INSURANCE OFFICE WHERE WE HELP THEM........GET BY ON EVERYTHING. I'VE SEEN A LOT OF SNEAKY THINGS THAT THEY HAVE TO DO IN ORDER TO STAY OVER HERE. (I just don't tell on them.) THATS JUST REALITY, MAN!!!
.
ian,
i reread the posts above, i'm glad you work w/ - help the hispanic community, it sounds like you do a good job.
fair enough, i'm sorry i made a anti PC comment, the slicker than grease comment rubbed me the wrong way. please understand that a lot of the criticism i hear of latin american workers is from anglo-americans who are angry and project their anger on the immigrant workforce. the anger is mis-projected (in the sense that the meat packing workers themselves lost battles that created the circumstances that enabled them to exploit workers from other countries).
the suggestion that workers need to find an excuse to work to send remittances to their families (thus they have to resort to slick methods of circumventing the law) does bug me. have you ever spent time w/ a person starving themselves to send money back to their family ? (i have). would that person be a slick character if they tried to find an ulterior explanation for their right to work, anywhere ?
yeah, i think the immigration laws need to be reformed - that people should be allowed to freely migrate and work wherever they please. i do think you make some assumptions that may not always be true.
ianplank May 14th, 2009 5:07 pm
"But when they do pay income tax it is because they STOLE SOMEONES IDENTITY."
-- really, using the agriprocessors model; it looks like the recruiters and the primary employer stole people's identities not the workers.
also - many americans don't pay their income tax, but as you noted they all pay sales tax, and the businesses that profit from these migrant workers (quickie mart, walmart, the diner on the corner) also pay taxes. these workers are woven into the american fabric - every time they spend a dollar.
the question raised by the postville story is, will these workers (irrespective of their nationality) be entitled to legal rights (like a class action civil lawsuit) that would be granted to any other american worker ?
i mean the landlord, priest, quickie mart clerk, walmart clerk, and school teacher, insurance agent, accountant who all understood the status of the workers. as you yourself noted.
"I write the letters myself, to help them get such benefits. Cause hey, they pay cash, and I have to eat each day."
-- glad your human, what's the difference between you feeding yourself each day and a person traveling 3500 miles to feed them self and their family in honduras ?
i believe the immigration laws should be reformed - granting amnesty to workers who already are in the US. in the mean time the onus should be placed on the businesses (large and small) that exploit these workers.
...peace..
I think everything ianplank said about illegals and taxes is accurate. And, honestly, I didn't see any racist comments in his posts. I even went back and re-read them after reading your comments. . . . unless you think "slicker than grease and smart" is racist. I don't.
I don't think your comments were racist either, but you certainly came closer by saying that whites are "very lazy" and Latinos are "better workers and smarter." Anytime you classify people based on race, rather than judging them as individuals, you are on shaky ground. The "billy ray jimbob" thing would probably also be found offensive if something similar was used to describe a minority group.
I find both ianplank's and your posts accurate and reasonable. Both of you have unusual access and personal experience, which is valuable. I appreciate the comments from both of you.
I would like to hear you explain how self-employed people a. don't pay taxes, and b. are given other peoples' tax money.
Cause I did it myself. I am self employed and no taxes come out of the money I make. If you pay for everything with your check card it makes it easy at the end of the year to deduct for business expenses. And since my whole life revolves around working to survive, just about everything I spend money on is an expense. And so, at the end of the year I got money back (FOR 1ST TIME IN MY LIFE OF 29YRS :) Basically you just play the bankers game and you can win!!! But you have to know how to play first. Even at 15yrs old making $4.75 per hour at the end of the year the IRS said I owed $50.00 and every year since I have owed as well, so I decided to change things myself (without Obamas help).
Employers should be charged - one count for each person-day illegal immigrants worked for them. That way the burden would fall on the biggest employers.
Joe
In this case, they HAVE been charged. Some managers have already plead guilty, and one of those faces up to 20 years in prison. The CEO/owner's son has been sitting in jail since November. The company faces millions of dollars in fines. Two plant managers have fled (one to Israel) and are currently at large and wanted criminals. More indictments are likely.
Of course, the article CD chose to publish didn't mention any of these facts. Nor did it mention any of the other most important facts about this story.
But, I did. See FEDERAL INDICTMENTS in my post above.
naturally,
your comment yesterday was one of the best i've read at CD, it flows - it's accurate and it raises a legitimate question. i think the iowa independant's coverage of postville is more detailed than the KC star article - and in a sense more honest. are you lynda waddington ? thank you for tracking this story.
http://iowaindependent.com/
i wish CD would publish more independent local news coverage in the 'news' column. although i always appreciate the cd readers deconstruction of the news presented, it helps all of us think more clearly.
thank you for reminding me of the details - for the devil always lives in the details.
...peace...
You are welcome. Yes, The Iowa Independent has been doing a good job covering the story, but so have other organizations I sourced. Just Google a few relevant words and you easily come up with them. I was struck by the avalanche of information I found.
It made me wonder how many news stories CD had to sift through before finding one that was 100% public relations for Big Ag.
Thanks so much. I was in a rush before and did not read all the comments, which were very informative. You and Iowablackbird seem to know a lot about this. Is there any literature contrasting Empire Kosher and Aaron's Kosher brands? Or can I use the facts in your posts? I would like to give out this information in Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods in Brooklyn. It is the women who buy meat, and some of them will care about the working conditions.
Joe
That information came from the May 2006 article in The Jewish Daily Forward, which played a significant role in getting the federal investigation started. Don't know if there is more on Empire specifically, but check the link below.
http://www.forward.com/articles/105674/