What inhumam creatures are capable of this atrocity?...ORDERS OR NOT? What do they say to their families when they go home and someone asks, "How did things go today? Incapable of sleep, they must live in their nightmares and in dark place no one may enter.

It's also known as the "water cure."

A fluid (not always water) is forced down a victim's throat. The victim, who must drink or drown, often passes out, is beaten, reawakened, vomits (or is forced to vomit), and the torturer begins again. The usual result is death, unless the victim is very lucky and/or the torturer tires of it.

See the February 25, 2008 New Yorker Article "The Water Cure" and the Wikipedia article for more details.

The torture doesn't seem to have had legal approval in the U.S., as one Army judge suspended and fined a Major for using the torture during the Spanish-American war.

However, it appears that Theodore Roosevelt did approve of it, considered it "mild," claimed that its origins were Filipino, and justified its implementation by saying that "the Filipinos had inflicted incredible tortures on our people." But according to one soldier who assisted in torturing 160 Filipinos, only 26 survived.

Here are some accounts (from the Wikipedia article):

Lieutenant Grover Flint during the Philippine-American War:

"A man is thrown down on his back and three or four men sit or stand on his arms and legs and hold him down; and either a gun barrel or a rifle barrel or a carbine barrel or a stick as big as a belaying pin...is simply thrust into his jaws and his jaws are thrust back...

In the case of very old men I have seen their teeth fall out... He is simply held down and then water is poured onto his face down his throat and nose from a jar; and that is kept up until the man gives some sign or becomes unconscious. And, when he becomes unconscious, he is simply rolled aside and he is allowed to come to...A man suffers tremendously, there is no doubt about it. His sufferings must be that of a man who is drowning, but cannot drown."

In his book The Forging of the American Empire Sidney Lens recounted:
A reporter for the New York Evening Post (April 8, 1902) gave some harrowing details. The native, he said, is thrown on the ground, his arms and legs pinned down, and head partially raised "so as to make pouring in the water an easier matter".

If the prisoner tries to keep his mouth closed, his nose is pinched to cut off the air and force him to open his mouth, or a bamboo stick is put in the opening.

In this way water is steadily poured in, one, two, three, four, five gallons, until the body becomes "an object frighful to contemplate". In this condition, of course, speech is impossibly, so the water is squeezed out of the victim, sometimes naturally, and sometimes - as a young soldier with a smile told the correspondent - "we jump on them to get it out quick." One or two such treatments and the prisoner either talks or dies.[2]

More than a hundred years later and only the names of the protagonists have changed.

well, monday morning, folks, and this whole thing gets more disgusting by the day. jay bybee and john rizzo, now that the noose has clearly been shown to you, how's it feeling? bush and cheney, feeling the monday morning shakes? if not, you'd better start preparing yourselves. this is not going away, and anyhow, we're not gonna let it. the drums beat louder.

and thank you, mr. obama, for seeing to it that all of the figures in the memos were not blanked out. brilliant move. let's see what happens.

Note the CIA reasoning: We got some useful information, therefore the means were justified. Completely absent for their "logic" is any judgment of the means. According to their logic, allowing all the ethnic cleansing to be completed in those nations where the victims were of no material value to the US would be justified because the means gets rid of a problem. After WW-II we hung Nazis for less.

It cannot be true, Bush said we do not torture. What would Jesus think?

I find it sick that they had to waterboard someone that many times. You'd think they'd realize it wasn't working after the first 10... or one hundred or so...

"... we also understand that a medical expert..." let's get him/her/them too.

that's someone we really want back over here in our health care industry.

comment retracted

A Diary at Daily Kos:

Prosecution Conundrum Worsens: Immunity for Torture Lawyers? How About a Pardon for Truth Lawyers?
by Jesselyn Radack [Subscribe]

Share this on Twitter - Prosecution Conundrum Worsens: Immunity for Torture Lawyers? How About a Pardon for Truth Lawyers? Mon Apr 20, 2009 at 05:26:38 AM PDT

On Friday, my diary discussed the moral absurdity created by the Spain court's decision not to prosecute top officials involved in torture because they "weren't there," coupled with Obama's grant of blanket immunity to the CIA operatives who actually carried it out.

Some of you suggested that Obama was leaving the door open to prosecution of the top perpetrators. Wrong. As Kossacks have already blogged about over the weekend, Rahm Emanuel said that President Obama opposes any effort to prosecute the Justice Deartment lawyers who drafted the heinous memos devising, authorizing and justifying torture.

And to think that I was mad that Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility was giving John Yoo and his ilk special treatment. Disappointment does not begin to express my despair that--taking a page straight from the Bush playbook, which characterized those seeking a torture investigation as being out for "revenge"--the Obama administration painted anyone seeking an inquiry as being out for for "retribution." Contrary to what the MSM would have you believe, this is not a middle ground. It's a free pass.

Jesselyn Radack's diary :: ::
First, the MSM is pushing the notion that the White House has struck a "middle ground" after the release of the torture memos by granting all the players immunity. This is not a "middle ground." The usual transparency and open government advocates "won" the release of long sought-after memos that were in the public's interest to see. The torturers won immunity. The tragic choice here is not the torture. It's the decision to willingly blind ourselves to U.S.-sponsored brutality in order to "look forward"--an absurdity on its face.

Second, there is a difference between retribution and justice. There is a difference between retaliation motivated by spite or vindictiveness and justice motivated by lawfulness. Shame on President Obama for deliberately conflating the two when he knows better. Investigation (with the possibility of prosecution) forces a democratic society to confront the evil of torture in an open way. Otherwise, brutality operates off the radar screen of accountability in an extralegal "twilight zone."

Finally, I would like a presidential pardon for Thomas Tamm (who revealed warrantless wiretapping), Matthew Diaz (who revealed the names of those being held on GITMO), myself (who revealed the first known instance of torture and government misconduct post-9/11), and anyone else who helped expose the illegalities of the prior administration. If the President of the United States is going to grant immunity to everyone from the telecoms to the torturers, then pardon those of us who have been criminally investigated, bankrupted, blacklisted, and are still suffering the personal and professional fallout of what really was pure "retribution" for doing the right thing.

ACTION: * Go to http://www.whitehouse.gov/... and share your outrage.

* D.C. Office of Bar Counsel: (202) 638-1501
has authority to investigate Yoo, Bybee and Bradbury, but is still investigating me. Anyone can file a complaint.

* Call American Bar Association (312) 988-5500

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FastEddie75: Rahm Emmanuel's rambling response to George St's question on ABC's weekend news talk show is basically incoherent. Go back and read it again.

Granted, the bottom line message appears to be (according to Rahm) that President Obama has decided to give a pass on criminal prosecution to the torture policy enablers and top official decision makers of the Bush regime, similar to how Obama announced last week he had decided not to prosecute the lower echelon CIA interrogators who had directly engaged in torture during this "dark and painful" period of America's recent history. But what is Rahm really saying?

Since when does the President of the United States announce a decision about launching or abandoning a war crimes prosecution by means of a garbled aside from his staff subordinate on a Sunday morning TV chat show? It's not like people in Spain, Great Britain, Iraq, Afghanistan, the wider Muslim and Christian worlds, and the UN human rights community aren't following the issue of America's use of torture.

If this is in fact Barack Obama's decision, then he owes the American people one of his trademark policy discourses, stepping up to the mike to explain his rationale and reasoning process. Personally, I think either that Rahm is playing a shallow DC beltway power politik mind game of some sort, or else the White House is testing the wind with this murky trial balloon. Either way, pissed off people should yell straight at the White House.

Greatbear25 - You are absolutely correct on your equal protection of the law approach to dispensing the healing balm of pardons and promises of immunity from prosecution. Also, I strongly endorse your suggestion about pressing disciplinary action against Yoo, Bybee, Bradbury and others (how about Alberto Gonzales?) by the DC Bar Association. Keep up the good works.

Bill from Saginaw

Once more the "American Exceptionalism" raises its head. The rules apply to everyone else but NOT The USA.

This is really no different then the State Of Israel claiming they the chosen people and over and above everyone else.

It takes a lot of effort to extract false confessions.

It would be cheaper just to murder the prisoner and fake his signature on the confession that he killed JFK, RFK, MLK, Lincoln, Garfield, Garfield the cat . . .

According to Rahm Emmanuel, Obama "believes that people [CIA interrogators] in good faith were operating with the guidance that they were provided. They shouldn't be prosecuted."

So Jay Bybee at Justice writes an opinion letter to John Rizzo in the legal department of the CIA in 2002, saying that waterboarding is not torture if the interrogators' motives are pure, the methodology is moderated, and the victim is suitably evil. Good faith? Bullshit.

This was a solicited, cover my ass legal opinion letter if ever one was drafted. It was classified top secret and stove piped at the time to shield it from scrutiny under existing standards of international human rights law. Those who orchestrated this charade of legalism are co-conspirators in commission of a war crime.

Later, in 2005, we have follow up opinions from Bradbury opining that it is not inhumane or degrading treatment to confine a prisoner naked, cramped into a darkened box for hours, with insects placed inside to play upon the detainee's phobias. Good faith? The lawyers who signed off on this laundry list of sickening police state interrogation tactics knew precisely what they were enabling.

"That's not the place that we go....."

Is Rahm talking about torture? Is Rahm talking about criminal prosecution of lower level interrogators or upper level CIA officials? Is Rahm talking about prosecuting the lawyers who facilitated the process? Is Rahm talking about prosecuting Dandy Don "I stand at my desk for eight hours" Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush - any or all of the above?

Yes indeed, it is a time for reflection.

Retribution does have a proper, limited role to play in any criminal justice process. The primary purpose of upholding the rule of law however is deterrence of similar future law breaking, by holding publicly accountable and punishing the criminal wrongdoer of today.

So by all means, Barack Obama should indeed take time for reflection.

And then Barack should step up to the microphone and talk about torture, human rights, and respect for the rule of law in language we can all understand.

That is a key part of his job description. Rahm's babble on ABC confuses matters immensely.

Bill from Saginaw

What I find interesting is how they pretended to only use waterboarding once or twice on these people, like they somehow were concerned about the brutality of what they were doing and had self-limited themselves to doing only something that they found unfortunately necessary??? LIES from LIARS ALL of it.

You all think the torturers should be prosecuted? And BO is wrong for not doing so?

Wellll....how many of you think the USAF pilots that killed a few hundred thousand innocent civilians in Iraq should be prosecuted?

1.Is that different?
2.Becasue they were following orders maybe?
3.Or is bombing children in an occupied country
more acceptable than torturing a human being?

I guess it must be, becasue on CD here I usually read much defenses of our good soldiers, I assume that means pilots also......now this may sound tough, but-

Would any of you rather be killed than tortured? Call it two immeasurable horrors-then why are pilots not as monstrous as torturers?

They cause INFINITELY more death, agony, maiming, and, lying half dead in rubble, TORTURE.

So, pilots should be imprisoned, prosecuted for war crimes? bombing an occupied country?................?

>>So, pilots should be imprisoned, prosecuted for war crimes? bombing an occupied country

Yep.

why draw the line there?

weapons manufacturers, weapons distributors, the entire war-for-profit regime should be held accountable.

azjoe, you make the point I always think of when I read these discussions.

Yes, torture is incredibly bad because it is so close up and personal - the torturer inflicts intentional pain in measured amounts.

But the pilot releases his weapons indiscrimiantely, almost certain that there will be people where his bombs will explode - not knowing who they are, and what incredible pain he will cause to them and their families.

And again, the weapons manufacturers are even more indiscriminate. They go home to their families in full certainty that countless other families will be3 fractured and destroyed by their day's work.

But what about the populations who live in the developed countries? How many of them think about the consequences of using the lion's share of the world's resources, and leaving the majority of their fellow man to subsist on a fraction of what they waste? Isn't it obvious to them that you can't control all those resources without using force? Everyone knows the US uses 25% of the world's resources, but has only 5% of it's population. Does the world deliver those resources up gladly? No. They are taken by killing and torture.

So, blaming your government agencies for using methods that must be used to get you what you use every day is a little hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

There is no doubt the US must investigate and prosecute these crimes. If the punishments begin at the top -- who ordered the torture, who OK'd the legality -- then decide how far down the chain we go, that should quiet the sense that only the lowly will be punished. I'm not interested in the men/women pouring the water and restraining the prisoner (although one wonders about their humanity), I am interested in those who should have understood the inefficacy of the tactic, and the legal and moral peril that they were placing those under their command.

Remember, these are only the things they were willing to document. Who knows about the "techniques" that weren't documented...perhaps like the techniques that were on the CIA video tapes that were erased. Remember, whatever the CIA admits to is only the tip of the iceberg...and, I think we can agree that the only thing you get from them are lies.

Deepa

The UN special rapporteur on torture, Manfred Nowak, has said President Obama is in violation of international law for declining to prosecute CIA agents who used torture. Nowak said the US is bound by the UN Convention Against Torture, which requires prosecution in all cases in which there is evidence of torture.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/4/20/headlines#3

Obama is still blocking court access to these documents citing national security concerns and granting immunity to the CIA officers who tortured and Bush administration officials who violated the Geneva Conventions.

Make sure you see "The Obama Deception" video obamadeception.net

The CIA shadow government is an ultra-rich, ultra-conservative, violently authoritarian and lawless organization. It is the oligarchy's right arm. Under attack, it could easily pull a JFK, RFK or MLK on Obama and he knows it.

If I had been waterboarded 183 times, I would've admitted to plotting the terrorist attacks or anything else you wanted me to. (I'm sure I would've confessed to anything after being waterboarded once.)

Where is the rule of law? Where are the investigations and indictments?

Obviously the torturers (sorry, I meant interrogators) didn't like the first 265 answers. If this information is true, this is even more disgusting and vile than previously thought. This calls for immediate investigations followed by indictments, arrests and trials.

We need to set ALL those prisoners free and pay them tens of millions of dollars each so they can afford security. We can't even try them now, as we have violated their due process rights and human rights beyond repair.

If their countries of origin won't accept them, or if they're afraid to return there, we then need to pay Cuba, Venezuela or Iran billions to house them, and provide them with funding for security, housing, and education for them, their families (to include dozens of members each) and their entourage. We cannot release them here...they have been pushed beyond their ability to refrain from harming Americans.

Remember McCain? He was given a seat in the Senate because he alledged (unproven) he was tortured. The old ignorant, Bush-loving clown would've become president, had Obama not been in the race. Imagine that!

www.meetyourworld.com

Comparing these revelations with what we were told tells the real story, ie which bits of the whole story were offered as their judgment of "truth".

35 seconds translates into 83 repetitions for purposes of "cruelty". Only employed on 2 prisoners really means 183 times, to portray "limited use". Those rep-counts show torture no matter what acts they consisted of. Did these 2 prisoners stutter when they spoke or something?

The parsing of words requires a formal investigation. Inaction constitutes, in effect, a "signing statement" purporting to define the law. The translation offered simply isn't transparent. Initially, the investigation need not even address the question of whether the actions were technically torture. The quintillion of truth given to the public, and the decision making process that resulted in that small fraction for public presentation, form a sufficient basis for for investigation. The obvious lack of candor shows intent to deceive.

Truth is not the standards we proclaim, but the deeds done. Further, what would be next according to the once prevalent "domino effect" they put on everything? Just how cruelinvasive and extreme they can go, say on persons accused of domestic terrorism?

Here is what we are up against:

http://www.ponerology.com/

Bring America Back !!!!...........Our Government is heavy into the business of creating 'Patsies',----people to take blame for atrocities they never committed.

***The big intel boys & girls needed Patsies to take the blame for 9/11, so they could eliminate any possibility they would be investigated for Crimes they themselves pulled off !!!!

***Just like the Anthrax Patsy(s) !!

Those poor Islamists will admit to anything, after being tortured, begging for martyrdom so they may reap their 40 Virgins in Islamist heaven, as Heros !!

That's how the FBI, CIA , NSA gets their so called "masterminds" of terrorism.
So does this now tell us exactly who the terrorists really are.

911 WAS AND IS AN INSIDE JOB !!!!

Rahm probably did worse back in his Nizzi army days.

All terrorism in the world is only limited to American intervention in world affairs for profit! I accept no other. Any action by foreign agents that kills people or destroys property in this country is not terrorism, it is retribution for sins committed by this country in the world at large. America is the only terrorist nation in the world and the only one that is capable of terror!

If torture had resulted in the discovery and breaking up of a major terrorist plot, the George Wanker Bush regime would have trumpeted it loud and long. You would never have heard the end of it, especially during the campaign of '08. It would not have mattered if this actually harmed our "national security". They outed Valerie Plame, a clear act of treason. Therefore, torture never produced jack. However, The T-Bangers hate Muslims (along with a laundry list of other groups and individuals) so torture is A-okay. You can see George Wanker Bush watching video of some guy at Bagram being waterboarded while his testicles are hooked up to a wall socket. Bush chuckles, eats pretzels and washes it down with beer after beer. He remembers putting M-80's up frogs' backsides as a child. That's what the torture was all about for him, a form of theatre of cruelty, vengeance upon people he had no idea how to combat and great personal entertainment. Bush was truly one of the most rotten people ever coughed up by the American Ruling Class.

183 waterboardings for Khalid? my goddess now that is inhuman. No wonder he confessed to so many bombings- and plane crashes too "hey blub blub sure! ok blub blub! yes! that one too!" i think he "confessed" to more acts of terror than have been committed. have we not agreed long ago that confessions extracted by torture have no value? have they changed those rules when i was not looking? Even if they did, any ordinary person could figure that out by ourselves.

let them all go, i say. if you treat people like that you have no moral authority to bring any charges against them.

personally, i believe Khalid is innocent. But if he's not these dingbats blew their chance to "bring him to justice" when they decided to waterboard him instead. and 183 times! unbelievable.

183 waterboardings for Khalid? my goddess now that is inhuman. No wonder he confessed to so many bombings- and plane crashes too "hey blub blub sure! ok blub blub! yes! that one too!" i think he "confessed" to more acts of terror than have been committed. have we not agreed long ago that confessions extracted by torture have no value? have they changed those rules when i was not looking? Even if they did, any ordinary person could figure that out by ourselves.

let them all go, i say. if you treat people like that you have no moral authority to bring any charges against them.

personally, i believe Khalid is innocent. But if he's not these dingbats blew their chance to "bring him to justice" when they decided to waterboard him instead. and 183 times! unbelievable.

Is this Abu Zulaydah the guy Cheney said "broke" after 35
seconds? I guess he "forgot" to mention the 88th time part.
I went to school at a small Texas town, but isn't that 51 minutes and 20 sec of feeling like you were drowning? I hope
some idiot doesn't tell me that isn't torture.

Sick Fucks.

The United States has criticized Japan and Turkey for denying their war crimes, and punished numerous foreign nationals for committing them. Our Neocon 2.0 president, however, acknowleges them, shrugs them off as if they were mere breaches of etiquette, and grants immunity to the perpetrators.

The devious General Hayden, liable under the UCMJ because he authorized war crimes while in uniform, claims that the torture memos merely define "the outer limit to which Americans will go." He doesn't explain how 40 or more detainee deaths were ruled homicide by military pathologists, a fact which would make him guilty of felony murder.

It's clear that nothing is going to be done. Obama talks about torturers and murderers as dedicated public servants doing their duty in good faith and breaches a clear affirmative duty to prosecute under the UN Convention on Torture, which is also US law, and his oath of office (in both the original constitutional and John Roberts versions).

It is good that so many people on this forum are against torture but something is rotten in Denmark. Americans have tortured since they first took over, by force, this vast land. They then went on to commit far worse acts of torture than waterboarding in the Philippines, Vietnam and Iraq to mention just three well documented countries. Tragically there are many more countries, many which have never recovered. Just look at South and Central America where America taught torture to the military in many of those countries while making despotic governments possible. Have a look at -
www.amoralamerica.info
if you have the stomach for it. Free download.

I've commented before on this issue, but it bares repeating ( again & again ).

We've great compassion for the victims of torture, and that's just easy

What about the really life changing thinking, and culturally ownership of the mendacity behind this ?

What about compassion for the perpetrators of torture, whose lives are forever marked ?
What about finding the understanding of what internal pain and dread that made this justifiable ?

What about breakthrough thinking to create a future looking and harmonious civilization, where people can no longer think like this -- which would preclude ever again acting like this ?

Do you realize that by reading this article, and being on this Planet together, that each of us is now a victim of tortue, as equally so we're also prepetrators of same -- as regardless, we are eventually ONE at true heart and soul.

May we all be blessed to find that place of grace and forgiveness, where love for all can again flourish and peace, openness, and calm shall "rule"

Namaste

Watched some ex-CIA talking head on TV last night attempt to exonerate everyone from this mess. "It's not like Nixon where they were working for political gain. They were trying to protect America and were simply misguided!" or something to that effect. Didn't the nazis use that excuse when "protecting" Germany? In all honesty, they need to make a serious effort to go after Dick Cheney and the Justice Department lawyers who spearheaded this effort. Anything short of that will be a charade. I doubt if Cheney ever spends a day in prison but at the minimum, he should be publicly humiliated and dragged into court. Otherwise, what deterrent is there when the next cabal of right wing criminals comes into office?

For those who say that torture doesn't work, you might want to look at this article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/20/AR2009042002818.html?hpid=opinionsbox1