Some Call for Bush Administration Trials
WASHINGTON - Like others bundled against the cold on Inauguration Day, a few dozen people along the Pennsylvania Avenue parade route were determined to catch a glimpse of President Obama. But they wanted him to see their simple, unmistakable message spelled out on black-and-white signs, adding a call-and-response chant for emphasis.
"Who's our president?" one shouted.
"Obama!" the group answered.
"Who's going to arrest Bush?"
"Obama!"
Though the new president probably didn't notice them, the protesters holding the "ARREST BUSH" placards illustrated a thorny problem he will have to confront, perhaps sooner rather than later.
While most viewed Obama's inauguration as a fresh start for the country, many on the political left - among some of Obama's most ardent supporters - want to hold George W. Bush accountable for what they believe were illegal activities in office, including misleading Congress on the Iraq war, spying on Americans, and permitting coercive interrogations that critics consider to have been torture.
While Obama has tried to discourage talk of such a politically explosive investigation, the issue surfaced during the confirmation hearings for Eric Holder, the president's choice for attorney general.
Though the full Senate confirmed Holder last night on a 75-to-21 vote, the debate had a partisan edge. Senator Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, scolded a small group of Republicans - Texas Republican John Cornyn, in particular - who threatened to block the nomination unless Holder promised he would not prosecute intelligence agents who participated in harsh interrogations.
Leahy, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, said Cornyn wanted Holder to "turn a blind eye to possible lawbreaking" before knowing whether it had actually occurred. "No one should be seeking to trade a vote for such a pledge," Leahy said.
Last month, Holder told the committee that waterboarding - a harsh interrogation technique the Bush administration apparently endorsed for use against top terror suspects - was torture. In theory, the attorney general has the discretion to take action or appoint an independent prosecutor if there were evidence of criminal wrongdoing. But politics - the appearance of partisanship, public opinion, and the president's agenda - would almost certainly play a role.
Last month, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the top congressional Democrat, told Fox News Channel that she favors investigations of the Bush administration and is open to prosecutions, depending on the evidence. And House Judiciary Committee chairman John Conyers of Michigan plans to set up an independent criminal probe to find out whether Bush himself broke any laws by invading Iraq and authorizing aggressive interrogations.
Meanwhile, a recent poll indicates that about half of all Americans surveyed believe Bush should be investigated for potentially illegal activities - more fuel for grass-roots activists who are keeping up the pressure with protests, petitions, and websites.
While few expect such prosecutions to go forward against Bush administration officials, let alone the former president, the continuing demand for investigations could become an increasingly larger headache for Obama.
During last year's campaign, Obama did not rule out prosecutions, but in one interview also emphasized the difference between what he called "really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity."
In an ABC News interview on Jan. 11, Obama said while no one is "above the law," "my orientation's going to be to move forward." On his second day as president, when Obama issued orders banning torture and closing the Guantanamo Bay detention center, he also scrapped every legal opinion and memo that justified harsh interrogations, secret CIA prisons, and detentions of terror suspects outside the judicial system.
Legal scholars say that bringing criminal charges against Bush, former vice president Dick Cheney, and other senior Bush administration officials would be a complex, highly-charged undertaking, and a conviction - even with strong evidence - would be an uncertainty at best.
"Based on what is in the public record thus far, the allegation that would have the most teeth is the one having to do with torture," said Stephen Vladeck, an American University constitutional law professor. "There is a clear prohibition under both domestic and international law on torture. It clearly applied on the executive branch. And it's pretty clear that the executive branch disregarded it on several occasions."
Bush or Cheney probably would cite as a defense their administration's expansive view of presidential power under Congress' grant of authority for Bush to pursue the war on terror "with all necessary and appropriate force." They could also invoke the decisions of President Lincoln, who suspended the writ of habeas corpus - guaranteeing a suspect's right to the courts - in the Civil War.
Vladeck said Bush administration officials would probably argue that they authorized "enhanced interrogations" to protect the country from terrorist attacks, and that "protecting the country is more important than protecting the right of the individual person."
Brian Walsh, a senior legal research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said charging the former president and his advisers is a long shot at best because any prosecutor would "have to have an abundance of evidence to start with" that they willfully broke the law against the country's best interests.
Though some liberals believe prosecuting Bush would recalibrate the limits on presidential power, Walsh said it would set a dangerous precedent and hamstring Obama and future presidents who might need that authority in a crisis. Moreover, liberals who vilify Bush as "Satan incarnate" are dragging the nation closer to a "banana republic" where political victors use their new power to destroy their enemies, he said.
"We used to think that when somebody lost an election, it was serious reproval," Walsh said.
That echoed Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, the ranking Republican on the Judiciary Committee that voted, 17 to 2, to send Holder's nomination to the full Senate.
After a private meeting with Holder about his nomination, Specter said the nominee had given him a satisfactory answer: possible prosecutions of those suspected of using torture would be decided on a case-by-case basis, and any potential defendant would have White House legal opinions on the issue as a viable defense. "I do think that President Obama has the right approach when he said that it is preferable not to look backwards but to look forwards," Specter said in a press conference last week. "If every administration started to reexamine what every prior administration did, there would be no end to it. This is not Latin America."
Yet many on the left argue the Bush White House operated with such secrecy and impunity that only full accountability - including punishment - can restore the governmental balance of power, renew the public trust, and show that not even the president is above the law.
In a radio interview earlier this month, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, a Rhode Island Democrat, acknowledged why Obama, dealing with two wars and a financial crisis, might want to move on. But "we in Congress have an independent responsibility, and I fully intend to discharge that responsibility," he said.
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41 Comments so far
Show AllOf course, maybe the best punishment for Bush and the Republicreeps would be to crank the over $250k income tax rate to 90% and drop the hammer on inheritance taxes back to post-WWII levels. G.W. never earned a dollar on his own and he'd be broke in a week on the Presidential pension.
With all the justifications Bush and Co offered for torture, the issue they and the media avoided was torture of an innocent. The problem with capital punishment and torture is that the damage done is permanent and there is no sufficient apology. It seems to me that the best course for prosecution is to find one torture subject who was later found to have no connections to any terrorist activity. The torture of that one person should be prosecuted to the highest level of punishment, including treason.
Now that Eric Holder hs been confirmed as the New U.S. Attorney General,we must seize this opportunity to seek justice for all of those who have lost their lives and for our country to establish the rule of law and to ensure that no one is above the law. Call Eric Holder today at 202-514-2001 and tell him to appoint an Independent Special Prosecutor to Investigate the Crimes of the Bush Administration.
L.Morselli
theinitiate
Good for Mr. Whitehouse. If anyone of us, breaks the law, say getting a couple of speeding tickets over a couple of years, we not only have to pay the tickets, but without a trial to prove that we are truly, unsafe or "bad" drivers, we get an increase of payment to our insurance company. This is actually double punishment. I have never had a car accidenT and for example, this year I put 33,000mi on my car for mainly work alone. For years I drove back and forth the 250 mi trip from Long Island to visit my Parents and family in another area. I've never had an accident. Yet I am paying through the nose for insurance.
So, no one is giving me a break. Why should someone who caused the death of approx. 1million Iraqi's and 4,000 american soldiers, abused his power in the postion he held, and blew the reputation of the US out of the water-WHY SHOULD HE GET OFF SCOTT FREE!!!!!!1
here's a tune to facilitate prosecution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw_HLPYkLNg
I log on, therefore I am.
Folks fear not. Senator Arlen Spector is up for re-election in 2010. Trust me, we in Pennsylvania are alreday organizing to defeat the AIPAC-aligned senator. Matter of fact we are spreading the word in our communities and through the internet.
Immunize all the important witnesses who come forward within a certain time limit (90 days is enough)and document what actually happened. It's called a truth and reconcilliation commission and it fits exactly with the bi-partisanship that President Obama is suppossedly championing.
Funding can come from teh bloated Pentagon budget and both Mandela and Tutu are available to consult our new President and his Attorney General more exactly on how such a thing should be organized and executed.
The same sort of arrangement should also be made for investigating the political assassinations of the 60's (JFK, Malcolm X, MLK, and RFK), the October Surprise surrounding the Iranian held US embassy hostages, Iran-Contra, both Iraqi wars, and of course, 911.
Poet
P O E T,
That's a great list,
which might beneficially be expanded to disclose the real truths behind the cover up of the near sinking of the USS Liberty in '67 and the murder and egregious suffering of many of our US Navy sailors that day.
I believe the investigation of _9_!_!_ will ultimately find some common truths, so we might as well start on the relatively 'small fry' -- before investigating the T-rex left in the nursery of truth.
Namaste
Agreed on the sinking of the Liberty. I believe that ultimately it will be shown that this was a case of the Pentagon being at war with itself (by virtue of various factions struggling for preeminence) as well as by proxy (using their client stooges in the Israeli security establishment) to do the dirty work like in the destruction of the Osirisk nuclear plant in Iraq in the mid 80's).
Those who use the actions of Zionist extremists as an excuse for legitimizing their own anti-semitism have yet to realize that the Zionists are as big a victim as those unlucky sailors on the Liberty (or subsequently the Cole, or those in the WTC on 911).
The very indifference of the US security state establishment to getting to the bottom of such incidents proves complicity rather than being victims or just inept or incompetent.
They are all just part of a long list of victims of an insane monster known as the Pentagon and/or the military-industrial complex more than willing to devour its very own to sustain its evil exsitence. They train and hire other schlubs to do their bidding and then cover up any serious investigation to protect their own patsies.
Poet
Some Call for Bush/Blair/Howard Administration Trials
"Legal scholars say that bringing criminal charges against Bush, former vice president Dick Cheney, and other senior Bush administration officials would be a complex, highly-charged undertaking, and a conviction - even with strong evidence - would be an uncertainty at best."
Blah blah blah.
Who are these "legal scholars" other than someone from the Heritage Foundation? or is this just a made up opinion to make the article seem more elevated in tone? Why should a conviction be so uncertain if the evidence is strong? Why not just say it outright? Bush and Cheney are powerful white men like the people who control this newspaper, and we don't like to think about their polished asses going to jail. It is so unseemly.
Joe
Actually Obama need not get involved. The Congress should do it (LOL). But, seriously, this is the sort of thing Congress traditionally handles.
Strange, I always thought that the Attorney General was responsible for supervising Federal prosecutions. While Holder does his job all Obama need do is say it is inappropriate to comment on matters before grand juries (courts).
Lots of luck.
First there will have to be a legal battle. and Obama will have to be involved.
Turns out that Bush is claiming Executive Privilege FOREVER for everyone involved in his administration. He sent out letters a couple of days before leaving office advising Rove, Meier, et al NOT to give any testimony to congress--that they are immune from everything according to the executive order he signed.
Now you know why Scooter and Company were not given pardons.
This was in the press in Mexico today. I have no idea if it was even mentioned in the press in Bushlandia.
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2009/02/03/index.php?section=mundo&article=027n1mun
One of the reasons for speaking other languages is to find out what is happening in your own country!
frances
I am one of those people who want Bush et alii prosecuted.
Crimes of Bush:
Waging a war of genocide in the middle east.
Trashing the Constitution
Trashing Habeus Corpus
Restricting the right of travel through "No Fly Lists"
Kidnapping and false imprisonment of individuals in Guantanamo and other places.
Stealing two elections
Criminal neglect of Katrina victims while partying in San Diego as New Orleans drowned.
Torture
Spying on US citizens
Blowing the cover of a government official (Valerie Plame), endangering her life and destroying her career.
Attempted overthrow of the sovereign government of Venezuela (2002)
Misappropriation of US tax dollars in order to collude with banks to hoard money while the economy crashes.
Fabricating 911 in order to facilitate a dictatorship
Horsefucking.
Cornholing your mother.
Being the biggest cocksucker in US and world history
Etc., Etc.
Hang the villain!
This article is typical of the claptrap that passes for journalism these days. Quoting from members of the Heritage Foundation is like asking a Nazi his opinion on the necessity of the Nuremberg trials. Many, many former government people--including former Reaganite Paul Craig Roberts, John Dean, Chalmers Johnson, and the list goes on--have rightly pointed out that the malfeasance of the Bush gang far outstrips any of the criminality of past administrations. The mealy-mouthed obfuscation of this article and the people it quotes merely shows what has happened to the political, legal, and journalistic professions over the past four decades. We have had repeated MyLai incidents in Iraq, in a war that was fought under false pretenses, we have had a coverup in the investigation of the event that served as one of the triggers to that war--9/11--we have had trillions disappear at the Pentagon on the eve of 9/11, we witnessed an anthrax attack from within our own government that was never properly investigated and whose designated fall guys have not stood up to scrutiny, we have had massive fraud on an unprecedented scale--starting with Enron and culminating in recent meltdowns--aided and abbetted by the stonewalling and secrecy of the executive office, we have had mercenary armies draining the public purse and massacring foreign civilians under the cover of our government, and we have had torture ordered from on high from the very start, beginning with the treatment of John Walker Lindh, whose progress after arrest was closely followed by phone by Donald Rumsfeld, and the list goes on and on, and the best these people can simply say is "legal scholars say that bringing criminal charges against Bush, former vice president Dick Cheney, and other senior Bush administration officials would be a complex, highly-charged undertaking"? What is wrong with these people? Is everyone so implicated in the same crimes that they don't want to see them? How can the majority of the elite classes remain in such denial? Anyone with a clean nose should be going after these thugs like there's no tomorrow, or there will be no tomorrow. Do they not see that utter ruin beckons if they don't clean house?
And, I forgot in my list of recriminations, TWO stolen elections!
Screw the torture charge, it doesn't rise the level of the crimes committed. Fixing intelligence for the purpose of leading us to war, gets most of those we want gotten and it reaches the level of treason, which is the only charge that should be sought.
thong-girl
Obama must do something high octane and he must do it quickly. He needs to throw some gasoline on the Republican big names and the media as well. I suggest, honoring the law, take Rove, Tenet and Cheney into custody immediately and anyone who even questions why, arrest them too. Then, since rendition is still on the table, take them all, with their entourages, to Cuba and let the other guys down there go free. Maybe that would signal that the American people are sick and tired of being run by a criminal organization.
thong-girl
The article mentioned Lincoln's suspension of HC, I'm not an expert on the civil war in the states, but did he authorise torture of Southern soldiers and spies?
During the American Civil War, spies were shot or hung, southern soldiers were made to linger in a hell hole called Camp Douglas out side Chicago. Of course captured union soldiers suffered the same in souther POW camps, so I guess it evened out.
Sioux Rose
Well, maybe the White House will become haunted by the spirits of dead presidents who don't think it's in the national interest to pretend there was no murder (en masse) that took place, was planned from that residence on Bush's watch. True, "the empire" has had other wars engineered on false pretenses, but somehow the benefit of history's lessons should have made this type of behavior uncivilized and passe by now. How Obama can sleep tight in that historic bed pretending that one can turn away from recent bloodstains to merely gaze into the mirror of the future is hard for me to fathom.
If a nation that did not show its homage to Mars, acts of war taken on a pre-emptive basis would not be countenanced; and leaders that chose such postures would hopefully be roasted by citizens before they had the chance to execute their plans of carnage on a massive scale.
This article begins by saying "many on the political left - among some of Obama's most ardent supporters - want to hold George W. Bush accountable for what they believe were illegal activities in office, including misleading Congress on the Iraq war, spying on Americans, and permitting coercive interrogations that critics consider to have been torture."
Ugh, okay. The fact that Bush and his cronies are directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians - is that not a factor here? Does that now outweigh the damages of "spying on Americans" or "misleading congress"for fuck sakes!
The way this article is written, it's as though the lives of others - lives other than Americans - has no value. That's an attitude that's far too typical of americans in general, and is one of the reasons that America has historically been so cavalier about waging war.
All life is sacred. All life has to be respected. War is ungodly. War is a crime. The headline states "Some Call for Bush Administration Trials". I think all Americans should. And all Americans - not just those "on the left" should be more cautious about entering into wars of aggression in the future too.
Conscious...
I concur about the tone of most articles are adressing terms that were framed by the corporatist media...
Thus the toned down palatable issue becomes the focus of some whitewashed bipartisan commission...
And well intentioned journalists often use the same terminology and memes in describing the issues...
There's nothing I'd rather see than bush/cheney/rummy/wolfy/condi and the rest behind bars forever but if the heat got turned up, they'd just run off to Paraguay or some island with Ken Lay.
Brian Walsh, a senior legal research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said charging the former president and his advisers is a long shot at best because any prosecutor would "have to have an abundance of evidence to start with" that they willfully broke the law against the country's best interests.
When did a law become conditional on whether it was against the best interest of the country? This appears to be a pretty cut and dried issue. Torture is against the law, at home and in the international community. Torture occurred. Those who ordered the torture admit they did it, though they quibble about the term. Case closed. There isn't any "but he meant well" exception to be applied.
Specter said in a press conference last week. "If every administration started to reexamine what every prior administration did, there would be no end to it. This is not Latin America." No shit Sherlock! More spin from one of the guilty parties.
Prosecute the murdering traitors and punish them to the fullest extent of the Law.
One man/Woman = one vote; and, no One above the Law.
The People are the Sovereigns not the lice that have been infesting the head of Our government for so long.
Incidentally, the "George Bush demonstrator" pictured looks more like Ross Perot to me.
· Yr Obd't Servant
"Brian Walsh, a senior legal research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said charging the former president and his advisers is a long shot at best because any prosecutor would 'have to have an abundance of evidence to start with' that they willfully broke the law against the country's best interests."
It seems to me that there is abundance evidence already. Apparently Walsh and his right-wing cronies at the Heritage Institute think that torturing prisoners that have never been convicted of any crime, much less had legal counsel and due process, is in the "country's best interests."
Clearly, Walsh is from the Ken Starr school of fascist stooges.
"Some people" say Bush screwed over our Government, our Country, and our World.
Gee, I guess I'm one of them. Many of them.
Me too. Welcome to AmeriKKKa!!!
The criminals are not going to investigate one of their own. The most you can hope for is another 911 whitewash, commission to mollify the American people.
NUREMBERG II 2009!
Deepa
When political leaders like Milosevic and Charles Taylor are being tried in Hague for their crimes against humanity, why not Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice... for war crimes and torture? They have violated international laws and human rights not only in the US, but also in invading Iraq and Afghanistan and killing millions of innocent children, women and men in these countries. These criminals could violate laws because Americans think that they are above the law and international laws are meant to be followed by other countries. Till now there has been public support in the US for this view. As the Christian God violates his own laws ("Thou shall not kill") by commanding Joshua and Saul to kill innocent children, women and men (eg. I Samuel 15), the God's Chosen Country follows the principle of its God in violating international laws and human dignity and human rights.
Kickapooviking,
You don't have to take to the streets. Take it to the court house. We have to bring every court house in America to a grinding halt. Evert person who gets a jury notice must go to court and tell the judge "America is a country of laws, and until the law breakers Bush, Cheney and the rest of the scum bags are put on trial for war crimes, Then I, in good conscious can not and will not serve.
Everybody thinks that the nostrum "no one is above the law" in today's America, is bullshit .
This is America. We REWARD criminal behavior once it reaches a certain level of monetary value.
"While few expect ... prosecutions to go forward against Bush administration officials, let alone the former president, the continuing demand for investigations could become an increasingly larger headache for Obama."
There you have it. NO ONE gets to punish the Capitalist in Chief. The noise machine will smoke and fume, and useless idiots like Pelosi and Conyers will try to garner press to enhance their own reputations, but nothing will happen. Obama will have a "headache" because he is trying to join a club that will exclude him if he prosecutes. He has to appear to want justice when, in this case, he probably doesn't. So he urges his minions to "move forward" and, zombie-like, they all repeat, "move forward, move forward..."
War crimes? Ignore them and "move forward." Malfeasance? Ignore it and "move forward." Abuses of power? Ignore them and "move forward." Crimes against humanity? Ignore them and "move forward."
Move forward to what? A future in which the concept of justice is irrelevant? That's not change, and I can't believe in it.
Bush/Cheney will go free. Just like all the criminal fat cats: Madoff, Paulson, Clinton. If we want justice we must take to the streets and extract it in our own way! But, alas, my favorite teevee shows are on tonight!!!!!
-“This is not Latin America”
…You got that right. Latin America is moving towards democracy
-"Legal scholars say that bringing criminal charges against Bush...would be a complex..and a conviction - even with strong evidence - would be an uncertainty at best."
…What a laugh, I guess Americans have gotten used to simple kangaroo trials where the outcome is predetermined.
I had the same response to the utterly bogus "uncertainty of conviction" point.
It's exactly the kind of lame, half-assed pseudo-"expertise" typical of both politicians and corporate media infotainwhores.
The degenerates in power and their media mouthpieces would've said the same thing about the Nuremberg Trials, if they'd been around back then.
· Yr Obd't Servant